/* */

PDA

View Full Version : It is NOTT MUSLIMS WAY....



Humbler_359
11-18-2009, 04:59 PM











:sl:

I found interesting more. Only for Muslims members. Please no trolls from Non-Muslims attacking.


Outrageous, it was a weak attempt to marginalize Islam. Every Muslims know basics of Islam.

In fact, women cannot lead prayer in the front.
Women and men can't be mixed together side by side.
Women when praying should cover her body fully at least.
You cannot wear boots when praying.



Brothers and Sisters, can you tell us what's wrong with these in your point of views? Have you seen this somewhere (probably in UK I assume), we could write letters to Muslim department for this silly matters.

Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Humbler_359
11-18-2009, 05:18 PM
:bump1: .............................
Reply

Raudha
11-18-2009, 05:28 PM
This is so disturbing. The way some of those women are dressed just looks so disrespectful - besides it being wrong according to shari'ah.

And to see men standing behind women in prayer :X

I have NEVER seen this before Alhamdulillah. May Allah save us and guide us all. Ameen
Reply

yazoo
11-18-2009, 05:32 PM
hmmm why the boots
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
ardianto
11-18-2009, 05:32 PM
What craziness is that ?. :heated:
Reply

GuestFellow
11-18-2009, 05:46 PM
Wait didn't Ume Warqa lead mixed prayers? I'm confused.
Reply

ardianto
11-18-2009, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359






Another question.
Why they did this shalaah jum'ah not in mosque but in Cathedral of St John The Divine, New york ?.
Reply

Humbler_359
11-18-2009, 06:14 PM



I remember this woman in the middle with no Hijab (she is trying to blasphamy on Islam for complaining why men and women are not mixed together in Mosque just like Church), I couldn't find her name. I am certain sure, she is the one and received attention from media. ----- By the way, I FOUND HER NAME: Asra Nomani. :raging:... Look up her history. Yes, bashing on Islam.








Imam rejected her a few times. She is lack of knowledges in Islam and she think women are degraded and less respected in Islam which is absolutely not true.

It is shame (fake) Muslims followers to do something like this. :raging: Are you sure ---Cathedral of St John The Divine, New York??
Reply

Iris
11-18-2009, 06:15 PM
So So wrong. Astaghfirullah. People should put an end to this practice.
Reply

cat eyes
11-18-2009, 06:16 PM
:sl:
It actually made me physically sick watching the women and men mixed i swear+o( whats wrong with people and why is a woman leading the prayer. imagine what the prophet mohammad pbuh would do if he saw this
Reply

Humbler_359
11-18-2009, 06:24 PM
BINGO, found more information little.


First woman to lead Muslim prayers angers traditionalists


Amina Wadud leads men and women in prayer in March 2005 at the Cathedral of St John the Divine in New York

LINK

17 October 2008

Islamic history will be made in the heart of Oxford today when a woman Muslim scholar leads Friday prayers and delivers the khutba, or sermon, for the first time in Britain.

Professor Amina Wadud
, visiting scholar at the Starr King School of the Ministry, Berkeley, California, received death threats after she led a service in New York three years ago. That event was held at an Anglican church after mosques refused to host it.

At 1pm today on Oxford's Banbury Road, Ms Wadud will deliver a sermon at the start of a conference on Islam and feminism at the University's Wolfson College. Organised by the Muslim Educational Centre Oxford (Meco), the event has attracted fierce criticism from traditionalists, who claim that the Koran insists on men leading prayers.

Police will be on hand to ensure protests do not spill over into violence.

Taj Hargey, a veteran of anti-apartheid struggles in South Africa currently engaged in post-doctoral research at Wolfson College, is Meco's chairman. "Our situation is simple," Mr Hargey said. "The golden rule of the Koran is that whatever is not expressly prohibited is permitted.

"Literalists interpret the Hadith [the sayings of Prophet Muhammad] as implying a woman should never lead a community. But even within the Hadith there is a woman called Umm Waraqa whom the Prophet allowed to lead prayers in a household and to teach her neighbour. Though it recognises biological differences between men and women, the Koran absolutely specifies gender egalitarianism.

"The people opposing this are the Wahhabi, Deobandi; misogynistic segments of Islam. They don't believe in the innate equality of men and women." (??-lie)

Born in 1952 to a Methodist father and a mother of Muslim heritage in Maryland, Ms Wadud, who has written books on the Koran and memorised most of it, first delivered a Friday sermon in Cape Town, South Africa, in August 1994. Seen as a pioneering feminist, her last book, Inside The Gender Jihad: Women's Reform In Islam (2006) was partly an experiment in autobiography, and included details of the threats to her life in New York.

That sermon, delivered to about 100 men and women, led to a concerted attempt by some Muslim scholars to have her removed from the academic position she then held at Virginia Commonwealth University.

Today, she will be speaking on justice to several hundred men and women, and her sermon having a mixed audience has angered Conservative members of the Muslim community. Mokh-tar Badri, vice-president of the Muslim Association of Britain, said: "With all respect to sister Amina, prayer is something we perform in accordance to the teachings of our Lord. It has nothing to do with the position of women in society. It is not to degrade them. This is something divine, not human. We do it the way it has been ordained by God. Women can lead prayers before other women but before a congregation of men and women, a man must lead.

"This is not confined to Islam. Catholics don't appreciate female priests."

Last week, Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain, said: "We have no dealings with Taj Hargey. His organisation has no affiliation with mainstream groups in this country."

Meco has 200 supporters. Its chairman is no stranger to controversy. In 1983, Mr Hargey was jailed in his native Cape Town for anti-apartheid protests.

"Look at what [suffragette] Emmeline Pankhurst did," he said. "People told her she was mad but now we worship her. In time people will say similar things about Amina Wadud."









A protestor and a worshipper talk things out following the prayer. His sign said "Amina Wadud is not a Muslim according to the Qur'an and Sunnah

Outside, Mohammed Nussrah, a 21-year-old Brooklyn resident had been protesting with five or six other peers, claiming that Wadud and the congregants had gone against the teachings of Islam.

"She is violating Islamic law…This woman here, is just changing that whole concept. She says its time to reform Islam; that's the name of the group, they're called progressive Muslims," he ranted. "As Muslims, we are followers of God, we hear and we obey. Whatever the Qur'an says, we take it with no questions, we have no opinions here; we have no comments; we have no suggestions. We just hear and we obey. And we know for sure in Islam, women cannot lead men in prayer. And what's she doing here today, she's violated a law which has been going on for more than 1400 years. Now, she can repent or she'll definitely burn in hell."
Reply

cat eyes
11-18-2009, 06:41 PM
:sl:
aaah i should have known its in america the country of to much freedom:raging:
Reply

catalzzy
11-18-2009, 06:45 PM
this is totally wrong... not seriously according to the sharia!!!! :(((
Reply

Güven
11-18-2009, 09:13 PM
I've actually seen this on news and my mouth was like open wide, I couldn't believe my eyes, this is just totally...totally wrong. This is not islam at all.

They are pure feminists.
Reply

Ramadhan
11-18-2009, 11:35 PM
A'udzubillaahi minassyaitonnirrojiim

That woman Amina Wadud clearly has surrendered completely to the whisperings of syaitan.
Reply

ardianto
11-19-2009, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Wait didn't Ume Warqa lead mixed prayers? I'm confused.
That was a special case.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) allowed Ummu Waraqah lead mixed prayer with one old man and one slave man in her house once.
That was the first time and the last time Prophet Muhammad (saw) allowed a woman lead mixed prayer.
And this permission is not valid for other women, and cannot becomes a reason for women to lead mixed prayer.
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
11-19-2009, 06:01 AM
:sl:
is this some stupid attempt by some Muslims to say "oh look we aren't backwards see? " ridiculous.

if she really cared about women and their prayer, then she would care that their awrahs aren't properly covered for prayer, and hence their prayer is rendered invalid. and would educate them about that

In fact, women cannot lead prayer in the front.
for men, no. but for other women, yes.
2 – A woman leading women in prayer. It is mustahabb for women to pray together (in jamaa’ah) when they get together in a place. One of them should lead the others, but she should stand with them in the middle of the row. It is permissible and correct for a woman to lead other women in prayer.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/14247/wome...ading%20prayer


Women when praying should cover her body fully at least.
not her full body.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/1046/awrah...%20for%20women
http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=25

You cannot wear boots when praying.
why? daleel? what about shoes?
Reply

Muslimlearner
11-19-2009, 06:05 AM
La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah!

:heated::heated::heated:

pls somebody to send this lady some Islamic Guides Books!!!Hurry!

it makes me so angry :omg:
Reply

جوري
11-19-2009, 06:15 AM
I must say I found one particular picture here (which will go un quoted) particularly hilarious.. I chuckled and chuckled and chuckled some more..

is this whole thing some kinda of a joke? Who are they doing this for?
Reply

Ramadhan
11-19-2009, 06:31 AM
^is that the picture with a woman wearing tank top praying in a jamaah?
I found it ridiculous. Is she even muslim?
Reply

جوري
11-19-2009, 06:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
^is that the picture with a woman wearing tank top praying in a jamaah?
I found it ridiculous. Is she even muslim?
;D yes how did you know? she was so scantily attired and the clothes were so ill fitting and accentuated all the negatives.. I always wonder, why when people choose to be 'modernized' they are always so subpar about it you know.. :lol:
even my four year old niece manages to get a handkerchief to cover her head in prayer when she imitates .. it doesn't even take thought.. it is a matter of respect and reverence.. you wouldn't meet your boss this way, and this is how you offer your respect to Allah swt?

there is no accounting for taste or lack thereof (all around) astghfor Allah..
they gave me a creepy feeling those people...

may Allah swt save us from the trials of the time

:w:
Reply

جوري
11-19-2009, 06:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359



I remember this woman in the middle with no Hijab (she is trying to blasphamy on Islam for complaining why men and women are not mixed together in Mosque just like Church), I couldn't find her name. I am certain sure, she is the one and received attention from media. ----- By the way, I FOUND HER NAME: Asra Nomani. :raging:... Look up her history. Yes, bashing on Islam.

?
Churches in the middle east Men sit on one side and women on the other.. be that as it may, they are still sitting or singing .. not acts of worship are actually involved.. it is as if you are sitting for a lecture, not kneeling while offering your ample behind before strange men.. I mean, I wonder if they give any thought at all to the nature of their complaints before they go off and complain?

I think they are Muslim impersonators.. Them being inside a mosque or outside makes no difference, since none of these acts are done for Allah swt.. they are done to gain favor of people that these turds are skulking up to!

my two cents

:w:
Reply

Danah
11-19-2009, 08:42 AM
:uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh: :uuh:
*speechless*
What on earth is this????

*faint*
Reply

Muslim Woman
11-19-2009, 10:11 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
That was a special case.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) allowed Ummu Waraqah lead mixed prayer with one old man and one slave man in her house once.
.

Can u give more info ? Why Prophet pbuh allowed it ..under what circumstances ?
Reply

ardianto
11-19-2009, 02:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:
Can u give more info ? Why Prophet pbuh allowed it ..under what circumstances ?
:wa:

Prophet Muhammad (saw) refused Ummu Waraqah's request to go jihad in the battle of Badar. But because Ummu Waraqah was/is a pious Muslimah, Prophet Muhammad (saw) gave her a special way to jihad, lead a mixed prayer in her house. But this was only for Ummu Waraqah and this was only once.
Reply

amar_labedi
11-19-2009, 02:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
A'udzubillaahi minassyaitonnirrojiim

That woman Amina Wadud clearly has surrendered completely to the whisperings of syaitan.
Assalamalikum wa rhatmullahi wa barkauthu

You are exactly right

But I fail to understand why there is no reaction form the Ulema from all around the world
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-19-2009, 02:33 PM
:sl:

What the heck is this nonsense?? Lol it's funny(not in a happy way) but really irritating too...:/
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 02:40 PM
:sl:

I think that woman in the vest top is not Muslim. perhaps she was just seeing what it was like to pray. Allah knows her intention and her state at that moment in time.

Pictures can be misleading, however, there is clearly a woman leading Salaah in the first pics and this is forbidden in Islam where there are men and women present. even if there are women praying together it is forbidden for the woman to stand out front as such isnt it?

May Allah protect us all from the evil of modifying our perfect religion....ameen
Reply

ardianto
11-19-2009, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amar_labedi
Assalamalikum wa rhatmullahi wa barkauthu

You are exactly right

But I fail to understand why there is no reaction form the Ulema from all around the world
Who said there is no reaction ?. All Grand mufti all around the world had curse Amina Wadud.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Can someone please enlighten me on this? who said you can't wear boots and pray? the prophet wore boots up till the ankle and prayed i thought? i have read a few hadiths...i think...someone please back me up on this one?
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 02:50 PM
:sl:

I just realised the woman wearing boots doesnt seem to be praying. she looks like she is singing to me :? or perhaps just talking.
Reply

MSalman
11-19-2009, 02:51 PM
welcome to the world of modernists - surprised how many of you were not aware of the activities of these apostates. Asra Nomani is the person who proudly announced her haraam relationship (accompanied by zina) on her blog and these are the people who are going to teach us Islam and fight for our rights. thank you but please keep your kufr to yourself!

Allhamdulillah, Allah has blessed with haqq and may Allah Ta'ala keep us on that path and guide these people, ameen.

@OP

some of the pictures should not have been posted as it is haraam for brothers to look at
Reply

Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
11-19-2009, 02:52 PM
Yea seriously, subhanAllah!

Ameen to the du'as.

:sl:
Reply

Humbler_359
11-19-2009, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amar_labedi
Assalamalikum wa rhatmullahi wa barkauthu

You are exactly right

But I fail to understand why there is no reaction form the Ulema from all around the world
:sl: brother,

Yes, there was reactions. No Mosques and Imams allow her to be mixed-gender leader. Even American Muslims and even the reverted Muslims of US protested outside the church hall to stop that.


format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Can u give more info ? Why Prophet pbuh allowed it ..under what circumstances ?
According to the hadith of Umm Waraqah reported in the Sunan of Abu Dawud, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) appointed a muezzin for her, and ordered her to lead her family members in Prayer. The majority of Muslim jurists say that there is no single incident where a woman led a mixed Prayer outside her family members.
.
.
.

Astaghfirullah, followers including (Wadud) are astrayers and imagine they ignore the basics of Islam. These ignorant people are nothing more than a fitna, a fitna that our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) told us about.

No one can defame Islam, many like these ignorant people have come before them and in fact they were a lot stronger than the bunch of clowns that we are seeing in these pictures.



I think it is, "THE NEW DOCTRINE OF WADUDISM"
Reply

GuestFellow
11-19-2009, 02:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
That was a special case.
Prophet Muhammad (saw) allowed Ummu Waraqah lead mixed prayer with one old man and one slave man in her house once.
That was the first time and the last time Prophet Muhammad (saw) allowed a woman lead mixed prayer.
And this permission is not valid for other women, and cannot becomes a reason for women to lead mixed prayer.
:sl:

Thanks for clearing that up.

What is wrong with our Ummah today...everyone is doing what they like. o____o
Reply

Muslim Woman
11-19-2009, 03:15 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
.. woman wearing boots doesnt seem to be praying. she looks like she is singing to me :? ..
yes , I was also thinking the same .....great (wo)men think alike :p
Reply

Güven
11-19-2009, 03:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
:sl:

I just realised the woman wearing boots doesnt seem to be praying. she looks like she is singing to me :? or perhaps just talking.
she is calling the adhaan.
Reply

Muslim Woman
11-19-2009, 03:24 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
she is calling the adhaan.
:raging::heated:
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 03:27 PM
oh ok. doesnt look like it. does it say that there ?? :? my bad!! sorry
Reply

Fטлку
11-19-2009, 03:29 PM
^ yup..Its in urdu :D
Reply

Güven
11-19-2009, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rabi'ya
oh ok. doesnt look like it. does it say that there ?? :? my bad!! sorry

I saw/heard it on the news. :hmm:

and plus It does look like it though [with putting the hand close to the ear]
Reply

Fטлку
11-19-2009, 03:36 PM
umm..it says something like..In a church in New York, before the friday prayer led by a woman, a female named sahela, who didn't even bother to cover her head, calls the Adhaan while wearing shoes..
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 03:54 PM
sorry. i didnt realise :P just took the pic at face value. which actually shows how thigns can be misleading when in a pic.
Reply

Fטлку
11-19-2009, 03:57 PM
^ She's not even covering her head.. <_<
And that tank top is.. :giggling:
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 04:00 PM
we have to assume they are not muslim. we have no info to suggest that they are muslim. i know we can see them praying. but i have had a non muslim want to know what it is liketo pray before.

iof they are muslim then is disgusting and very disrespectful but Allahu Alam
Reply

Fטлку
11-19-2009, 04:02 PM
I doubt they would let a non-muslim call for prayer tho :X
Reply

Rabi'ya
11-19-2009, 04:03 PM
who knows with these kind of people!!!
Reply

Muslim Woman
11-19-2009, 04:08 PM
:sl:

I read that who lead the mixed salat is a revert ???? What about others ? Anybody knows about their latest activities ?

May Allah guide them , Ameen.
Reply

marwen
11-19-2009, 04:17 PM
These picture are a pure desecration of Islam. I don't know from were did they bring this religion. These people are either wrong and need to be guided, or they have intention to attack Islam. In both cases they are not muslims. We should tell non-muslims that these people do not represent Islam.
Reply

Humbler_359
11-19-2009, 04:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:

I read that who lead the mixed salat is a revert ???? What about others ? Anybody knows about their latest activities ?

May Allah guide them , Ameen.

:sl: Sister,

I have afraid of some reverts, they could mislead other followers based on their own theory. Yes, Imam Wadud was a revert despite his father was Minister. It is hard to believe, others followed her steps and fool, no way.

There is more concerned for other revert you may remember. Please see this- LINK

I guess, this world is full of games.
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-19-2009, 04:30 PM
wearing a boots and praying...is not against islam..infact, there is a hadith when Muhammad SAW removed his boots and prayed..so the sahabats removed their boots and prayed..so Muhammad SAW finished and asked them y they removed their boots. They said coz they saw the prophet removing his boots..the prophet SAW told them not to do it as the jews removed the boots for prayers...and told the muslims to be different....and pray with their boots or without...so its permissable...
Reply

MSalman
11-19-2009, 05:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
I doubt they would let a non-muslim call for prayer tho :X
you do not know sister...never doubt these modernists, they do all sorts of things. Shaykh Yasir Qadhi, may Allah perserve him, mentioned in one of his lectures that he was talking to a modernist from this group and that person was implying that it does not matter whether one believes in Islam or even Allah as long as we give human rights and so called women rights. subhaanAllah, so these sorts of people we are talking about

actually, there whole kufr is sealed with single beautiful statement of Imam Malik (rahimahullah): he has reported to said that if something was not part of deen at their (sahabas - radiAllahu anhuma) time then it can never be part of deen at our time.

btw, let us not dwell into fiqhi issues here and say "this is part of Islam and this is not" while speaking without knowledge. Let us focus on the actions of these heretics - look how many innocent ignorant (in terms of knowledge) people the likes of Asra and crew are misguiding

may Allah guide them and keep us on haqq, ameen
Reply

al Amaanah
11-19-2009, 06:00 PM
:salamext:

this is just sickening. may Allah guide us all, Allahomma ameen.

:w:
Reply

cat eyes
11-19-2009, 06:07 PM
:sl:
I do believe that there muslims and i think its wrong to say that they are not maybe Allah will be angered with us and take away our own imaan so be very weary and cautious brothers and sisters of calling somebody a kufir. i think that the problem is here that they reject the hadiths of beloved prophet mohammad peace and blessings be upon him and they totally misunderstand the holy Qur'an they are following uneducated people leading to them doing what they are doing and they need to be put on the right path:cry: now what we should be talking about is how we can stop this is my only concern. i also believe that the country that they are living in has a major influence on them also, all this talk about feminism is a clear sign.
:wa:
Reply

Abdul Qadir
11-19-2009, 06:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cat eyes
:sl:
I do believe that there muslims and i think its wrong to say that they are not maybe Allah will be angered with us and take away our own imaan so be very weary and cautious brothers and sisters of calling somebody a kufir. i think that the problem is here that they reject the hadiths of beloved prophet mohammad peace and blessings be upon him and they totally misunderstand the holy Qur'an they are following uneducated people leading to them doing what they are doing and they need to be put on the right path:cry: now what we should be talking about is how we can stop this is my only concern. i also believe that the country that they are living in has a major influence on them also, all this talk about feminism is a clear sign.
:wa:
true...just the act of worship shows they are muslims...but they have deviated from the Sunnah...a nice Salafi Dawah from Abu Khadeejah would address these sorta situations...
Reply

_PakistaN_
11-20-2009, 05:59 AM
If she thinks women are pressed in Islam. then what about guys, who had died as martyars for the Sake of Allah. Almost all the martyars were men. doesn't she realize this fact.
Reply

Hayaa
11-20-2009, 07:21 AM
La hawla wa la quwwata illaah billaah.

To say that this is revolting would be an understatement. May Allaah swt guide these people...
Reply

afzalaung
11-20-2009, 07:26 AM
1...2...3...and...1...2...3...and...1...2...3...

Reply

Humbler_359
11-21-2009, 02:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by afzalaung
1...2...3...and...1...2...3...and...1...2...3...

:sl: Brother,

:exhausted, what's up with that? I didn't get it.
Reply

afzalaung
11-22-2009, 05:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359
:sl: Brother,

:exhausted, what's up with that? I didn't get it.
the smiley's doing aerobics....together with those in the pic
Reply

AlHoda
11-22-2009, 06:00 PM
O___________o Where is that, I have never seen such a thing in my life before. :O
Reply

Michael_S
11-22-2009, 06:17 PM
Several things have been said here, I just want to clarify some of them:

1. It is forbidden for women to lead a mixed congregation. - Please provide proof or evidence, from hadith or Quran.

2. It is not okay to pray with boots on. - Why? Where it the Ayah or hadith regarding this?

For the record, I am just as shocked to see these images as anybody. Since I converted in 1996, I've never heard of such a thing. However, when it comes down to it, I never read a hadith in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) actually forbade such an act. I am concerned about this, because there is a clear ayah in the Quran which condemns calling something lawful or unlawful without knowledge.

16:116
But say not for any false thing that your tongues may put forth "This is lawful and this is forbidden" so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah will never prosper.


Again, I'm not doubting that it is forbidden, I just would like to know where it was forbidden.
Reply

cat eyes
11-22-2009, 06:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by afzalaung
1...2...3...and...1...2...3...and...1...2...3...

;D cute id like to squeeze him
Reply

mahi
11-22-2009, 06:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael_S
Several things have been said here, I just want to clarify some of them:

1. It is forbidden for women to lead a mixed congregation. - Please provide proof or evidence, from hadith or Quran.

2. It is not okay to pray with boots on. - Why? Where it the Ayah or hadith regarding this?

For the record, I am just as shocked to see these images as anybody. Since I converted in 1996, I've never heard of such a thing. However, when it comes down to it, I never read a hadith in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) actually forbade such an act. I am concerned about this, because there is a clear ayah in the Quran which condemns calling something lawful or unlawful without knowledge.

16:116
But say not for any false thing that your tongues may put forth "This is lawful and this is forbidden" so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah will never prosper.


Again, I'm not doubting that it is forbidden, I just would like to know where it was forbidden.
I searched for an answer as I too would've liked to know..
I went to the website sunnipath.com
They're a really good websites with lots of knowledged people answering questions.

Here's a link to a teacher explaining the issue.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...6805&CATE=3600
It is rather long, you can skim read or read in full if you wish. I found it very helpful, especially coming from a female.
Reply

Michael_S
11-22-2009, 09:41 PM
Thanks for the reply. The article seems to indicate that there is some scholarly flexibility on this issue, so I would be very careful about calling these folks kafirs (not you, but others have said this).
Reply

sirajstc
11-23-2009, 04:55 AM
this is so bad i think may Allah save us
Reply

Ramadhan
11-23-2009, 04:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Michael_S

1. It is forbidden for women to lead a mixed congregation. - Please provide proof or evidence, from hadith or Quran.
All from Islamqa.com:

Ruling on woman being imaam for men
In Islam, can a woman be an imaam in a mosque? What are the conditions for a woman to be an imaam?

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not permissible for a woman to lead men in prayer. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Keep women behind [in the back rows] as Allaah has commanded.” (Narrated by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in his Musannaf, 5115. The isnaad stops at Ibn Mas’ood with a longer report than this; the isnaad is saheeh but it is not proven that this was said by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)).

Moreover, the position of imaam in the mosque is a kind of wilaayah [public office], and wilaayah is only for men. “No nation prospers that appoints a woman over its affairs [wilaayah]” (narrated by al-Bukhaari, 13/45, 46), as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said.

There is an exception made by the Hanbalis, but this is a weak opinion. This view says that a woman may lead the men in taraaweeh if she reads well and the men present are illiterate, but she should be behind them and they should be in front of her. But there is no evidence (daleel) to support this view. The point is that it is not permissible for a woman to lead men in prayer. Yes, women may lead other women in prayer, it is OK if she leads other women. This is fine, as stated in the report of Umm Waraqah leading some of her mahrams, but as for her leading non-mahram men or as a public office [wilaayah], such as being an imaam in a mosque, this is not permitted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ruling on a woman leading men in prayer
What is the ruling on a woman leading men in Jumu’ah and other prayers?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Allaah has singled out men for some virtues and rulings, and He has singled out women for other virtues and rulings. It is not permissible for any man to wish for that which has been granted to women only, nor is it permissible for any woman to wish for that which has been granted to men. This kind of wishing is tantamount to objecting to the laws and rulings of Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And wish not for the things in which Allaah has made some of you to excel others. For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned, and ask Allaah of His Bounty. Surely, Allaah is Ever All‑Knower of everything”

[al-Nisa’ 4:32]

al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Allaah forbids the believers to wish for that with which Allaah has favoured others, whether that is in things that are possible or things that are impossible. Women should not wish for the things that have been bestowed uniquely upon men, by which Allaah has favoured them over women, and no poor person or person who has shortcomings should merely wish for the position of one who is rich or perfect, because this is the essence of destructive envy (hasad)… and because that implies displeasure with the decree of Allaah. End quote.

One of the things for which Allaah has singled out men is that the acts of worship which require physical strength, such as jihad, or require a position of leadership such as leading the prayers, etc., are only for men, and women have nothing to do with them.

This is indicated by a great deal of evidence, such as the following:

1 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

al-Shaafa’i said in al-Umm (1/191):

If a woman leads men, women and boys in prayer, then the prayer of the women is valid and the prayer of the men and boys is invalid, because Allaah has given men the role of protectors and maintainers of women, and He has not allowed them to be in charge, so it is not permissible for a woman to lead a man in prayer under any circumstances, ever. End quote.

Al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Men have been favoured over women in numerous ways, such as the fact that positions of leadership and Prophethood are limited to men only, and many acts of worship, such as jihad and leading the Eid prayers and Jumu’ah prayers, are for men only, and Allaah has favoured them with intellect, wisdom, patience and toughness which women do not share. End quote.

2 – Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise”

[al-Baqarah 2:228]

al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“but men have a degree over them” means higher status and leadership, and more rights over them, as Allaah says, “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women”. The position of Prophet and judge, leading the prayers and leading the state, and all positions of authority, are restricted to men. End quote.

3 – al-Bukhaari (4425) narrated that Abu Bakrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No people will ever succeed who appoint a woman as their leader.”

This hadeeth indicates that it is not permissible for a woman to hold a position of public authority, and leading the prayers is a position of public authority.

4 – Abu Dawood (576) and Ahmad (5445) narrated that Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not prevent your women from attending the mosques, although their houses are better for them.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Sunan Abi Dawood.

It says in ‘Awn al-Ma’bood:

“although their houses are better for them” means: their praying in their houses is better for them than their praying in the mosques, if only they knew, but they do not know that, and they ask for permission to go out to the mosques, because they think that the reward for them in the mosque is greater. The reason why their praying at home is better is that there is no danger of fitnah. That was confirmed after women began to wear adornments. End quote.

5 – Muslim (440) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The best rows for men are those are the front and the worst are those at the back, and the best rows for women are those at the back and the worst are those at the front.”

Al-Nawawi said:

The phrase “the rows for men” is to be understood in general terms as meaning that the best of them are those that are at the front, and the worst are those at the back, and that is always the case. As for the rows for women, what is meant in this hadeeth is the rows of women who are praying with men. But if women are praying on their own and not with men, then they are like men and the best rows are those at the front and the worst are those at the back. What is meant by the worst rows for both men and women is that they bring less reward, are lower in status and are further removed from what is required by sharee’ah. And the best rows are the opposite of that. The virtue of the last row for women who are praying with men is that they are farther away from mixing with men or seeing them or becoming attracted to them when seeing their movements or hearing their words and so on. The first rows are condemned for the opposite of that. And Allaah knows best. End quote.

If a woman is enjoined to pray in her house and keep away from men, and the worst rows for women are the front rows, because they are closer to the men, then how can it be befitting for Islam to allow a woman to pray as an imam, leading men in prayer, when it enjoins her to keep away from men?

6 – al-Bukhaari (684) and Muslim (421) narrated from Sahl ibn Sa’d al-Saa’idi that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Whoever notices anything amiss during the prayer, let him say tasbeeh, for if he does so it will be noticed; and clapping is only for women.”

al-Haafiz said:

It is as if women are not allowed to say tasbeeh because they are enjoined to keep their voices low in prayer at all times, because of the fear of fitnah. End quote.

If women are forbidden to alert the imam by speaking if he makes a mistake, and should clap instead, so that they will not raise their voice in the presence of men, then how can it be allowed for a woman to lead them in prayer and deliver a khutbah to them?

7 – Muslim (658) narrated from Anas ibn Maalik that he prayed behind the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and with him was his grandmother and an orphan. He said: The orphan and I stood in a row behind him, and the old woman stood behind us.

Al-Haafiz said:

This shows that a woman should not stand in a row with a man. The basic reason is that there is the fear of fitnah because of her. End quote.

If a woman should stand on her own behind the rows, and not stand in the same row as the men, how can she stand in front of them and lead them in prayer?

It says in ‘Awn al-Ma’bood:

This indicates that it is not permissible for a woman to lead men in prayer, because if she is not allowed to stand in the same row as them, it is less likely that she should be allowed to stand in front of them. End quote.

8 – According to the actions of the Muslims throughout fourteen hundred years, no woman should be allowed to men in prayer.

Badaa’i’ al-Sanaa’i’, 2/289

Whoever goes against this is following a path other than that of the believers. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever contradicts and opposes the Messenger (Muhammad) after the right path has been shown clearly to him, and follows other than the believers’ way, We shall keep him in the path he has chosen, and burn him in Hell — what an evil destination!”

[al-Nisa’ 4:115]


There follow some comments of the scholars:

It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (6/205):

In order to lead men in prayers, it is essential that the imam be a male; it is not valid for a woman to lead men in prayers. The fuqaha’ are unanimously agreed on this matter. End quote.

Ibn Hazm said in Maraatib al-Ijmaa’, p. 27

They are unanimously agreed that a woman should not lead men in prayer when they know that she is a woman. If they do that then their prayer is invalid, according to scholarly consensus. End quote.

It says in al-Muhalla (2/167):

It is not permissible for a woman to lead a man or men in prayer. There is no difference of scholarly opinion on this point. Moreover the text states that a woman invalidates a man’s prayer if she walks in front of him… The ruling of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is that she should definitely stand behind the man in prayer, and the imam must stand in front of the congregation or with one who is praying with him in the same row… From these texts it may be established that it is definitely invalid for a woman to lead a man or men in prayer. End quote.

Al-Nawawi (4/152) said in al-Majmoo (4/152):

Our companions are agreed that it is not permissible for an adult man or a boy to pray behind a woman… the prohibition on a woman leading men in prayer applies equally to obligatory prayers, Taraweeh and all supererogatory prayers. This is our view and the view of all the scholars from the earlier and later generations – may Allaah have mercy on them. Al-Bayhaqi narrated this from the seven fuqaha’, the Taabi’i fuqaha’ of Madeenah. It is also the view of Maalik, Abu Haneefah, Sufyaan, Ahmad and Dawood….

Moreover if a woman leads a man or men in prayer, the men’s prayer is invalid, but her prayer and the prayer of any women who pray behind her is valid in all prayers, except if she leads them in Jumu’ah prayer, in which case there are two views, the most sound of which is that her prayer does not count. The second view is that it does count and it takes the place of Zuhr. This is the view of Shaykh Abu Haamid, but it does not amount to anything. And Allaah knows best.

In al-Insaaf (2/265) it says:

“ A woman’s leading a man in prayer is not valid” –

This is our view in general – meaning the madhhab of Imam Ahmad – it says in al-Mustaw’ib: This is the correct view. End quote.

The Maaliki view concerning this matter is the strictest of all. They do not allow a woman to lead even other women in prayer, and they regard maleness as an essential condition for leading the prayer in all cases. In al-Fawaakih al-Dawaani it says (1/204):

Note that there are conditions for leading the prayer to be valid and complete. The conditions of it being valid are thirteen, the first of which is being male; it is not valid for a woman or an effeminate man to lead the prayer. The prayer of the one who prays behind a woman is invalid but not the prayer of the female who led the prayer. End quote.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about a man who prayed ‘Asr behind his wife. He replied:

It is not permissible for a woman to lead a man in prayer and his prayer offered behind her is not valid, because of a great deal of evidence to that effect, and the man mentioned must repeat his prayer.”

Majmoo’ Fataawa Ibn Baaz, 12/130

Secondly:

With regard to the evidence presented by those who refer to the reports which say that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) gave Umm Waraqah permission to led her household in prayer (narrated by Abu Dawood, 591), they say that she used to lead the people of her house in prayer, among whom were men and boys. The scholars have given several answers to that:

1- The hadeeth is da’eef (weak).

Al-Haafiz said in al-Talkhees (p. 121): Its isnaad includes ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Khallaad who is unknown. End quote.

It says in al-Muntaqa Sharh al-Muwatta’:

This hadeeth is one to which no attention should be paid. End quote.

2- Even if the hadeeth is saheeh, what it means is that she used to lead the women of her household in prayer.

3- That was something that applied only to Umm Waraqah, and it is not prescribed for anyone else.

4- Some scholars quote it as evidence that a woman may lead a man in prayer, but only in cases of necessity, and what is meant by necessity is when there is no man who can recite al-Faatihah properly. Haashiyat Ibn Qaasim, 2/313

See al-Mughni. 3/33.
Islam Q&A
Reply

marwen
11-23-2009, 04:55 PM
aerobic, loooooooooool, yes pehaps they were doing aerobic but certainly they were not praying :)
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Holiday in the Maldives

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!