Eid Celebration In Somalia

[Binyamine]

Peace Mercy And Blessing Of Allah be upon all of us.

Shows the Prize Giving Of The Recitation of The Qur'an competition and the Eid Prayer in Magadisho Stadium.

For Online Viewing:

Site:

http://blip.tv/file/2867534/

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I am glad to see these muslims brothers smiling a little!!!

[Saifullah_s]

MashAllah a very nice video, jazakaAllahu Khair brother for sharing...May Allah (swt) give our brothers in somalia the very needed islamic state ruled by sharia

[Supreme]

Somalia is a state in need of peace and an end to suffering. It is good to see happy Somalis.

[Sampharo]

The rebel khawarij distributing qurans and giving peanut money for prizes does not absolve them from the crimes they've commited and the lives they've taken and ruined in their bloody quest for power.

Spare us the propaganda videos and fake support messages and tell them to stop kidnapping and the shedding of civilian blood, before claiming to be aiming for the application of Shariah which they are themselves breaking as we speak. Would have been good to see them fighting in palestine, or is Israeli oppression a legitimate Shariah-based government?

Wallahu Al-MostaAAan

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[Binyamine]

The rebel khawarij distributing qurans and giving peanut money for prizes does not absolve them from the crimes they've commited and the lives they've taken and ruined in their bloody quest for power.

Spare us the propaganda videos and fake support messages and tell them to stop kidnapping and the shedding of civilian blood, before claiming to be aiming for the application of Shariah which they are themselves breaking as we speak. Would have been good to see them fighting in palestine, or is Israeli oppression a legitimate Shariah-based government?

Wallahu Al-MostaAAan

:sl:

Brother you have just make grave accusation against them imsad
You call them khawarij???
What are the crimes they have committed???
As far as i follow the news, they are applying the Shareeah laws.
What laws of the shareeah are they breaking???

If i am not wrong, they have made a brigade to liberate Al Aqsa.

I do not know about them. I just posted the video to show Eid Celebration in Somalia, but now your question make me want to know more about the situation there. Could you please elaborate.

Jazakallah Khairan.

[Sampharo]

They have been denounced by consensus of all scholars of Islam, and all Somali refugees including ones that I meet in person are talking of their harshness and crimes. The shariah they are breaking is fighting the ruler, it is consensus and with rock-solid evidence that it is the gravest of crimes punishable by death, and that rebellion was proven to be never commited even against the most corrupt and deviant of rulers. Deaths of civilians muslim and non-muslims are impermissible in any law, and they have commited plenty of that. They have commited the khawarej act of rebelling against and raising arms against the ruler. They called the government as apostates for not applying Shariah, which is false and unislamic, and they attacked and killed not only government police and soldiers who were defending against them, but also civilians on their way who did not provide immediate support.

They are the remnants of the earlier warlord groups having come together as one group, and everyone knows the horrors they caused. Additionally, when the government called for peace and even decided to apply Shariah themselves, their twisted brains came up with the excuse that since the government made "a vote" then they essentially are still embracing western democracy and therefore fighting must continue, which is complete hogwash.

Let us know when their so-called brigade reaches Palestine and blows up one Israeli checkpoint, considering Palestine is occupied since 1948 and the warlords are active for the last 25 years, it's not clear to me why we haven't seen anything yet.

If you do not know about them then don't propagate them, and I think that "Al-Shabab Media Presents" in the beginning of the video could have been a clue. Also the video itself shows no Eid or stadium for God's sake, it's just a province islamic center where they're doing some good old PR.

[Binyamine]

But yet do you not think that it is important to know their side of their story??

These people are they the same as the Islamic Court before???

[Sampharo]

They are already telling their side of the story. They announced their rebellion, and they announced the government to be apostate because they don't apply the shariah, then when the government did they were the ones who announced that fighting must continue because they "voted" for Shariah instead of forcing it (!!!), then they were happily reporting the deaths of what they called "kafirs and murtaddeen" referring to soldiers, police officers, and civilians who are men, women and even children who simply did not provide immediate support and rebel with them, or just happened to be shot in the middle of fighting and then they came up with fabricated statements that collateral casualties are permissible in Islam.

What they themselves did and proudly announced by themselves are stated crimes in Islam:

Hadith narrated by Ibn Yaman and authenticated in both Bukhary and Muslim: "I heard the prophet -pbuh- say "There will come rulers after me who will not guide by my guidance and will not apply my Sunnah and Shariah, yet men will rise against them with hearts of devils in bodies of human" I asked "What should I do o'prophet if I witness such a thing?" the prophet replied "Maintain obedience, if the ruler beats your back and takes your wealth maintain obedience to the ruler!"

In another hadith narrated by muslim: "Those who take their hand out of the sultan's rulership and die, die the death of Jahiliya (non-Islam)"

In a third: "The best of your rulers you will like them and they will like you, you will pray for them and they you, and the worst of your rulers you will dispise them and they you, and you will pray for calamities upon them and they you" companions asked "O'prophet shouldn't we revolt against them" and the prophet replied "NO! As long as they hold your prayer. No as long as they hold your prayer"

The prophet said: "I was ordered (by Allah) to fight until people declared God is one, and held the prayers and paid the zakat, whomever does their blood and property is sealed and haram"

Sahih Al-Bukhary clearly shows that the statement and practice of the prophet and companions and Guided Kholafaa Rashidoon after him were that whomever does those is muslim and cannot be pronounced apostate even if he ignores other rulings or obligations: جُعِلَتْ غَايَة الْمُقَاتَلَة وُجُود مَا ذُكِرَ , فَمُقْتَضَاهُ أَنَّ مَنْ شَهِدَ وَأَقَامَ وَآتَى عُصِمَ دَمه وَلَوْ جَحَدَ بَاقِيَ الْأَحْكَام

And of course killing innocent civilians is the biggest of crimes, which goes against rules of even Jihad against self-declared hostile non-muslims.

This has been addressed in other posts on the forum previously and also is a settled consensus matter amongst proper scholars of all schools of methodology.

The beliefs of Ashabab are part of the Khawaarij deviant sect, they have faith and beliefs that are not on the Sunnah, such as that major sins wipe out all good deeds and take a person out of Islam, and that qital (fighting) is permissible without a ruler leading them.

For further reading, please check: http://islam4me.wordpress.com/2008/0...ist-khawaarij/

[Maryan0]

[QUOTE=Sampharo;1250436]They are already telling their side of the story. They announced their rebellion, and they announced the government to be apostate because they don't apply the shariah, then when the government did they were the ones who announced that fighting must continue because they "voted" for Shariah instead of forcing it (!!!), then they were happily reporting the deaths of what they called "kafirs and murtaddeen" referring to soldiers, police officers, and civilians who are men, women and even children who simply did not provide immediate support and rebel with them, or just happened to be shot in the middle of fighting and then they came up with fabricated statements that collateral casualties are permissible in Islam.

What they themselves did and proudly announced by themselves are stated crimes in Islam:

Hadith narrated by Ibn Yaman and authenticated in both Bukhary and Muslim: "I heard the prophet -pbuh- say "There will come rulers after me who will not guide by my guidance and will not apply my Sunnah and Shariah, yet men will rise against them with hearts of devils in bodies of human" I asked "What should I do o'prophet if I witness such a thing?" the prophet replied "Maintain obedience, if the ruler beats your back and takes your wealth maintain obedience to the ruler!"

In another hadith narrated by muslim: "Those who take their hand out of the sultan's rulership and die, die the death of Jahiliya (non-Islam)"

In a third: "The best of your rulers you will like them and they will like you, you will pray for them and they you, and the worst of your rulers you will dispise them and they you, and you will pray for calamities upon them and they you" companions asked "O'prophet shouldn't we revolt against them" and the prophet replied "NO! As long as they hold your prayer. No as long as they hold your prayer"

The prophet said: "I was ordered (by Allah) to fight until people declared God is one, and held the prayers and paid the zakat, whomever does their blood and property is sealed and haram"

Sahih Al-Bukhary clearly shows that the statement and practice of the prophet and companions and Guided Kholafaa Rashidoon after him were that whomever does those is muslim and cannot be pronounced apostate even if he ignores other rulings or obligations: جُعِلَتْ غَايَة الْمُقَاتَلَة وُجُود مَا ذُكِرَ , فَمُقْتَضَاهُ أَنَّ مَنْ شَهِدَ وَأَقَامَ وَآتَى عُصِمَ دَمه وَلَوْ جَحَدَ بَاقِيَ الْأَحْكَام

And of course killing innocent civilians is the biggest of crimes, which goes against rules of even Jihad against self-declared hostile non-muslims.

This has been addressed in other posts on the forum previously and also is a settled consensus matter amongst proper scholars of all schools of methodology.

The beliefs of Ashabab are part of the Khawaarij deviant sect, they have faith and beliefs that are not on the Sunnah, such as that major sins wipe out all good deeds and take a person out of Islam, and that qital (fighting) is permissible without a ruler leading them.

For further reading, please check: http://islam4me.wordpress.com/2008/0...ist-khawaarij/[/QUOTE
I've heard of these hadith before but do they apply if the leader brings foreign troops into the country?
Would this apply in reference to the ethiopians who were in somalia before or the situation in afghanistan today?
Im no supporter of alshabab or their actions. I'm just asking from a theological standpoint.
salam

[Sampharo]

There is no theological barrier in using non-muslims if there is a treaty with them. Naser Salahuddin used non-muslims in repelling the crusaders, and the jews in Madina had an alliance pact with the prophet to fight together if Madina was attacked either by enemies of the prophet Mohamed -pbuh- or the enemies of the jews. To suggest that using non-muslim troops is apparent apostasy, is a laughable degree of deviance that has no basis and is disproven by Sunnah.

Taliban warriors along with real mujahideen who were fighting legitimately back in the eighties against communist Soviet invasion (legitimate jihad declared by the leader before he was killed and is against an invading non-muslim army, that was clear correct jihad and most countries had many of its youth and even sheikhs go and fight) were fighting that war and taking not only weapons and training but also fought alongside American troops and operatives.

Today's fighting in Afghanistan is different and their rebellion in Pakistan is illegitimate and self-serving. No decent scholar is supporting them. Don't know exactly what happened but apparently after the ravages of war, the war lords came to power and therefore khawaarij polemycs spread, and they started fighting and passing takfir on each other. No support for the current corrupt Karzai, but that doesn't mean to raise weapons and start claiming and cutting Afghanistan into control pieces.

[Omar_Mukhtar]

but also civilians on their way who did not provide immediate support.

Stop making up stories will ya. The civilians are safest in the towns and cities they control. This much is even acknowledged by western reporters and academics. Whereas, in the few blocks controlled by the African Union( who are helping against the khawarij according to you) and the Warlords( islamic rulers to you, wali'yadibillah), people are looted and killed almost daily. Anyway, I didn't want to get into these issues, so my advise to you is to not make great judgements on conflicts you have little knowledge about.

[Maryan0]

Stop making up stories will ya. The civilians are safest in the towns and cities they control. This much is even acknowledged by western reporters and academics. Whereas, in the few blocks controlled by the African Union( who are helping against the khawarij according to you) and the Warlords( islamic rulers to you, wali'yadibillah), people are looted and killed almost daily. Anyway, I didn't want to get into these issues, so my advise to you is to not make great judgements on conflicts you have little knowledge about.

Fear does tend to keep people in check. I don't support foreign troops in Somalia however I don't support the al shabaab.The situation in Somalia isn't some rightious jihad its Somalis killing other Somalis.The majority of Somalia's problems are Somali created. We can blame the A.U, the Ethiopians or even the Americans but I can guarantee should the A.U leave, Somalis will continue to kill each other like we've been doing for the past 20yrs. I find it very funny the way some Somalis conveniently choose to ignore the bloodshed and death Somalis have wreaked upon themselves for the past 20 years as if all of Somalia's problems started with the A.U and Ethiopia. Had alshabaab joined the peace process like they had been asked to I very much doubt the president would need the A.U to protect him against his own people neither would innocent civilians continue to be killed on a regular basis.
salam

[Justufy]

I wish peace to somalia :hmm:

[Omar_Mukhtar]

[QUOTE=Lisa0;1252163]

They are already telling their side of the story. They announced their rebellion, and they announced the government to be apostate because they don't apply the shariah, then when the government did they were the ones who announced that fighting must continue because they "voted" for Shariah instead of forcing it (!!!), then they were happily reporting the deaths of what they called "kafirs and murtaddeen" referring to soldiers, police officers, and civilians who are men, women and even children who simply did not provide immediate support and rebel with them, or just happened to be shot in the middle of fighting and then they came up with fabricated statements that collateral casualties are permissible in Islam.

What they themselves did and proudly announced by themselves are stated crimes in Islam:

Hadith narrated by Ibn Yaman and authenticated in both Bukhary and Muslim: "I heard the prophet -pbuh- say "There will come rulers after me who will not guide by my guidance and will not apply my Sunnah and Shariah, yet men will rise against them with hearts of devils in bodies of human" I asked "What should I do o'prophet if I witness such a thing?" the prophet replied "Maintain obedience, if the ruler beats your back and takes your wealth maintain obedience to the ruler!"

In another hadith narrated by muslim: "Those who take their hand out of the sultan's rulership and die, die the death of Jahiliya (non-Islam)"

In a third: "The best of your rulers you will like them and they will like you, you will pray for them and they you, and the worst of your rulers you will dispise them and they you, and you will pray for calamities upon them and they you" companions asked "O'prophet shouldn't we revolt against them" and the prophet replied "NO! As long as they hold your prayer. No as long as they hold your prayer"

The prophet said: "I was ordered (by Allah) to fight until people declared God is one, and held the prayers and paid the zakat, whomever does their blood and property is sealed and haram"

Sahih Al-Bukhary clearly shows that the statement and practice of the prophet and companions and Guided Kholafaa Rashidoon after him were that whomever does those is muslim and cannot be pronounced apostate even if he ignores other rulings or obligations: جُعِلَتْ غَايَة الْمُقَاتَلَة وُجُود مَا ذُكِرَ , فَمُقْتَضَاهُ أَنَّ مَنْ شَهِدَ وَأَقَامَ وَآتَى عُصِمَ دَمه وَلَوْ جَحَدَ بَاقِيَ الْأَحْكَام

And of course killing innocent civilians is the biggest of crimes, which goes against rules of even Jihad against self-declared hostile non-muslims.

This has been addressed in other posts on the forum previously and also is a settled consensus matter amongst proper scholars of all schools of methodology.

The beliefs of Ashabab are part of the Khawaarij deviant sect, they have faith and beliefs that are not on the Sunnah, such as that major sins wipe out all good deeds and take a person out of Islam, and that qital (fighting) is permissible without a ruler leading them.

For further reading, please check: http://islam4me.wordpress.com/2008/0...ist-khawaarij/[/QUOTE
I've heard of these hadith before but do they apply if the leader brings foreign troops into the country?
Would this apply in reference to the ethiopians who were in somalia before or the situation in afghanistan today?
Im no supporter of alshabab or their actions. I'm just asking from a theological standpoint.
salam

ASWRB; no it doesn't apply. Brother Sampharo is trying to start a car with the wrong key. Subhanallah, how can there be no "theological barrier" in siding with the ethiopians, who occupy more than half of somali territory and inflict worser crimes on Somalis than the Israelies do to Palestinians? How can there be no " theological barrier" in siding with people who don't differentiate between men, women, children and the places of worship:

http://www.silentcry.co.uk/gallery-silent-cry.html


Also, SHEIKH Albani has clearly refuted this argument:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKAgN18uWMM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSsuF...eature=related

[Sampharo]

Nice to see you avoiding all the issues told and just jump on using ethiopians to combat the khawaarij, rather than ACTUALLY facing the fact that if the khawaarij did not commit their crimes in the first place no ethiopians would have been called.

Then you are applying a deviated ruling, which is create the illusion that Albani's opinion that the sin of Saudi Arabia in bringing in American soldiers to act ON THEIR OWN in fighting Iraqi army which is an OFFICIAL muslim army with its own muslim ruler (and therefore in status of valid qital) and has just transgressed, is the same as khawaarij breaking ranks (an act that takes a ruling of death sentence on each individual) and fighting the community, and ethiopian soldiers are brought in NOT ON THEIR OWN to help stem the corrupt destructive tide.

Sorry brother, but it is you who seems top have lost all your keys and just had a lockpick to try on your car. And Al-Albani is well-known to have spoken endlessly AGAINST khawaarij and shabab and their deviant acts. Why don't you link to the TOLD fatwas of Al-Albani rather than the untold one that actually is NOT relevent to your argument?

Interpretation by Sheikh Al-Albani that ruling by other than shariah is not kufr of belief or apostacy

Refutation of Ahlu Takfir by Al-Albani

Debate of Al-Albani with a Jihadi that Jihad without a ruler is not permissible

[Omar_Mukhtar]

So you believe the Ethiopian army occupying Somalia is a better or lesser evil than what you call the " khawarij"? A simple yes or no. Secondly, if the "khawarij" are purely to blame for Ethiopians entering into Somalia territory, then why does Ethiopia currently occupy almost one third of SOmali territory and why are they crucifying innocent people? Are the "khawarij" also to blame for this?

[Maryan0]

Ethiopia occupies the Ogadenia because they made a deal with the Europeans during the days of colonization. Ethiopia also saw a weakened somalia and chose to invade it today. Somalia and Ethiopia are traditional enemies, what else is new?
Now that we have figured out that nobody cares about the best interests of somalia why do somali's not unite amongst themselves instead of killing each other making it easier for foreigners to take advantage of us again. what does fighting among ourselves accomplish?
salam

[Sampharo]

So you believe the Ethiopian army occupying Somalia is a better or lesser evil than what you call the " khawarij"? A simple yes or no.

Yes or no answer? hahaha Do you think that the "jury" here will be instructed to ignore explanations and conditions? Brother, it is an obvious and old tired tactic of switching from "Islamic rulings" to "political lesser evil" when it SEEMS like it suits you, and then switching back to "Islamic rulings" in order to justify whatever death and killing and destruction because apparently "Ruler is not ruling by Shariah and therefore is a kafir and therefore we must fight by Islamic ruling!"

So no, there will not be an answer to your trick question, because the destruction and killing is refused by either sides, but Islamically speaking there is no justification for shabab to be fighting whatsoever. They do not satisfy any of the conditions of Jihad and are commiting hideous crimes in the name of Islam, and therefore are as such, criminals. For you to try and say they are the lesser evil at the very least negates your earlier premise that they are mujahideen.

Secondly, if the "khawarij" are purely to blame for Ethiopians entering into Somalia territory, then why does Ethiopia currently occupy almost one third of SOmali territory and why are they crucifying innocent people? Are the "khawarij" also to blame for this?

Do you have any evidence or indication that the government forces are "crucifying innocent people"? Strangely enough even Israeli crimes are well documented and shown one by one, but haven't seen crucifictions by government forces. Regardless, even if the ruler himself is killing innocent people, he wouldn't be worse than Hajjaj Al-Thaqafy and strangely no scholar including companions of the prophet raised their swords and claimed that because Hajjaj was corrupt and not applying Shariah, he is an apostate and they should fight by Islamic ruling! aaaarrrrrr". Instead even as Anas Ibn Malik was being taken to be killed simply for sticking to sunna, no sword was raised.

You cannot justify khawaarij because of what you claim to be governmental corruption, we've already been over this, it is not a reason nor basis Islamically to make khorooj, so your whole argument is useless EVEN if you establish government is corrupt, which by the way I don't really disagree with.

[Omar_Mukhtar]

^^ I was only figuring out your methodology in thinking. I am also trying to figuring out when a "theological" barries arises in calling kafir regimes to occupy Muslim nations? The question was not supposed to be a trick one. Can you simply answer it;

how did you see the "government" calling in Ethiopians and other kufar foreigners?

Wrong
A necessary evil
good
Sin?

If they call in Ethiopia and Kenya to invade Somalia is there no theological barrier in doing this? Would this be a legitimate operation in removing "khawarij"?

Again, very simple.

As for your second question, then I clearly said Ethiopians and not Somali "government" forces. This was in your response to your claim that Ethiopians only came because of "khawarij", so I asked you, if so, why do they currently occupy almost one third of SOmali territory and they are crucifying innocents? Don't you know the history between Somalia and Ethiopia?

Still, the "government" forces are also notoriously known for looting Muqdisho people and they often fight over the loot themselves. They have also killed enough Somali civilians during the Ethiopian occupation. You want evidence for this; ask any SOmali or even better their own officials openly admit that they have this problem with their forces which needs to be curbed. Also, I can get you reports from international agencies.


In response to your last point I say to you this; I don't believe Somalia has a "government"( it hasn't had one for twenty years), hence there can no rebellion against an illegitimate entity and certainly they have commited greater crimes than corruption.


ps. some scholars at the time time made takfir on Yusuf Al Hajjaj.

[Sampharo]

Sorry brother Omar,

Not interested in your sinking into political deadends. The Islamic ruling has been clarified and all scholars have agreed that Shabab have no right to their war and it's not valid Jihad. If you're not convinced of this, then that is your option.

Wassalam Alaikom

[Omar_Mukhtar]

I hope you are not running away from my question, ya akhi? Maybe you should ask your "scholar" what a Somali Muslim should do if he witnesses his mother or sister being raped by an Ethiopian soldier. Are they allowed to "rebel" against our Ethiopian brothers who came to kindly assist against the khawarij? Should they be patient, close their eyes and pray? Maybe, Call a "Salafi" sheikh on paltalk? Just being a sarcastic here, but here is a bit of advise; next time you lunge into a debate, you should make it clear that only your opinion counts and other opinions don't matter, at least that is how you come across to me.

[Binyamine]

I hope you are not running away from my question, ya akhi? Maybe you should ask your "scholar" what a Somali Muslim should do if he witnesses his mother or sister being raped by an Ethiopian soldier. Are they allowed to "rebel" against our Ethiopian brothers who came to kindly assist against the khawarij? Should they be patient, close their eyes and pray? Maybe, Call a "Salafi" sheikh on paltalk? Just being a sarcastic here, but here is a bit of advise; next time you lunge into a debate, you should make it clear that only your opinion counts and other opinions don't matter, at least that is how you come across to me.

Salafi are for JIhaad, its only neo-salafi which claims that there are no JIhaad without the permission of the Ameer. But guess what, in Somalia, the muslims have their Ameer, same applies for Chechnya as well as Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its really strange that whatever people do, they are easily branded as "KHAWARIJ":raging: What about the hadeeth that til Qiyamaat there shall be some people amongst the ummah of Mohammad [ peace be upon him ], who shall continue to strive for JIhaad???

[Sampharo]

I hope you are not running away from my question, ya akhi? Maybe you should ask your "scholar" what a Somali Muslim should do if he witnesses his mother or sister being raped by an Ethiopian soldier. Are they allowed to "rebel" against our Ethiopian brothers who came to kindly assist against the khawarij? Should they be patient, close their eyes and pray? Maybe, Call a "Salafi" sheikh on paltalk? Just being a sarcastic here, but here is a bit of advise; next time you lunge into a debate, you should make it clear that only your opinion counts and other opinions don't matter, at least that is how you come across to me.

La Hawla wala Qowwata Illa Billah.

I bring you hadiths and consensus of scholars regarding the Islamic rulings, you come back with nonsensical political analogies. You bring one irrelevent fatwa, I bring you three from the same sheikh that are relevent and against what you propagate. I bring you evidence from Sunnah, you come back with taunting. And I am the one running away from this debate and you're giving me advise?

:hmm: Keep your sarcasm to yourself and enjoy it, and good luck with your victory dance. Barak allahu feek.

Salafi are for JIhaad, its only neo-salafi which claims that there are no JIhaad without the permission of the Ameer. But guess what, in Somalia, the muslims have their Ameer, same applies for Chechnya as well as Iraq and Afghanistan.

Its really strange that whatever people do, they are easily branded as "KHAWARIJ":raging: What about the hadeeth that til Qiyamaat there shall be some people amongst the ummah of Mohammad [ peace be upon him ], who shall continue to strive for JIhaad???

First you say you don't know them and now masha Allah you're disecting rulings between salafi and neo-salafi and calling the consensus of global scholars as the latter? Are Anas Ibn Malik and Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal and Ibn Taymeyya and Ibn Abbas along with all others from their time neo-salafi then?

Easily branded as Khawarej? It takes carrying a weapon and turning it against their own community and ruler, guess as easy as branding someone who kills another for no crime, a murderer. Nobody said it's hard to go outside the fold of Sunnah and Islam.

Glad to see you found one irrelevent hadith that in no way applies on those who are breaking ranks and fighting their own community and attaching to it. Good luck in your own beliefs brother, just remember you walk this path as outcasts and against dictated text of the hadiths of the prophet and the documented sunnah of his actions and those of his companions.

[Omar_Mukhtar]

ok. if you are so clever and you are clearly the one who knows everything- why are you dodging a very simple question, ya akhi? Do you see anything wrong with the " rulers" of Somalia helping the EThiopians to occupy Somalia?


mods please don't close this thread.

[Binyamine]

I am sorry to have talked on things that i have just heard on the salafi and neo salafi.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Quick question although this wasn't meant for the thread. The purpose of the OP was different...yet here we are on a tangent xD

Why can't we rebel against tyranny? If our rulers are corrupt why is that we can't say or do anything against them? Granted they are legitimately wrong, why is it treason? I thought we were meant to stand up against injustice? I hear this a lot of from people, that you can't go against the corrupt ruler. It doesn't make sense to me. It's a genuine question really :/

[convert]

Quick question although this wasn't meant for the thread. The purpose of the OP was different...yet here we are on a tangent xD

Why can't we rebel against tyranny? If our rulers are corrupt why is that we can't say or do anything against them? Granted they are legitimately wrong, why is it treason? I thought we were meant to stand up against injustice? I hear this a lot of from people, that you can't go against the corrupt ruler. It doesn't make sense to me. It's a genuine question really :/

Well, certain groups will bring ayat with spurious tafsir and will go to great ends to defend a certain government apparatus which has propogated this misguided notion without stopping for a second to think how said group got power in the first place. May Allah protect the Shabaab and if they have any errors, may he correct them.

[Sampharo]

ok. if you are so clever and you are clearly the one who knows everything- why are you dodging a very simple question, ya akhi? Do you see anything wrong with the " rulers" of Somalia helping the EThiopians to occupy Somalia?

I don't know if Somali ruler did that or not, and is still irrelevant to Khawaarij. If they did it's wrong, yet not apostacy, but it's irrelevant to the act of khorooj, which is the one YOU are dodging.

What part of "Not interested in your sinking into political deadends" do you not understand? Like I said, go dance in celebration of victory.

Why can't we rebel against tyranny? If our rulers are corrupt why is that we can't say or do anything against them? Granted they are legitimately wrong, why is it treason? I thought we were meant to stand up against injustice? I hear this a lot of from people, that you can't go against the corrupt ruler. It doesn't make sense to me.

You can say something, speak out against them, and demonstrate. That is granted. However, once you pick up weapons against the ruler you have commited the most heinous of crimes by established dictated textual Islamic rulings from the prophet -pbuh-. We do not question God's shariah and dictated rulings, and there is no disagreement as to the clarity of this ruling nor in the evidence of application by companions and scholars of salaf and khalaf (except of course for the Khawaarij themselves, who claim major sins make a person an apostate, and contradict themselves in saying that breaking shariah is apostasy, yet for them when they are fighting the ruler and as such are breaking the shariah it's legitimate because it's for the better).

I put a small sample in my earlier post of the indicative hadiths:

Hadith narrated by Ibn Yaman and authenticated in both Bukhary and Muslim: "I heard the prophet -pbuh- say "There will come rulers after me who will not guide by my guidance and will not apply my Sunnah and Shariah, yet men will rise against them with hearts of devils in bodies of human" I asked "What should I do o'prophet if I witness such a thing?" the prophet replied "Maintain obedience, if the ruler beats your back and takes your wealth maintain obedience to the ruler!"

In another hadith narrated by muslim: "Those who take their hand out of the sultan's rulership and die, die the death of Jahiliya (non-Islam)"

In a third: "The best of your rulers you will like them and they will like you, you will pray for them and they you, and the worst of your rulers you will dispise them and they you, and you will pray for calamities upon them and they you" companions asked "O'prophet shouldn't we revolt against them" and the prophet replied "NO! As long as they hold your prayer. No as long as they hold your prayer"

Hope that answers your question.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

:sl:

Yea it did more than before, JazakAllah Khair.

Are there any references to this in the Qur'an or just the hadiths?

[Cabdullahi]

Quick question although this wasn't meant for the thread. The purpose of the OP was different...yet here we are on a tangent xD

Why can't we rebel against tyranny? If our rulers are corrupt why is that we can't say or do anything against them? Granted they are legitimately wrong, why is it treason? I thought we were meant to stand up against injustice? I hear this a lot of from people, that you can't go against the corrupt ruler. It doesn't make sense to me. It's a genuine question really :/

I want to know too...the true islamic position on this...the notion above comes mostly from Saudi arabia...they say an average citizen must not rebel and go against their rulers....but some of these rulers are the cause of decline in the muslim ummah's progression on the international stage.....from dawah to sound and in line with islam 'technology'

[Uthman]

:salamext:

I want to know too...the true islamic position on this

Brother Sampharo has clarified it in this post. :)

[Khaldun]

:sl:

As a muslim and somali myself, I have to face the truth. The so called shabaab etc are truly from the khawarij. This does not mean that we are opposed of the fact that somali should be governed by the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Yet what these people are doing is due to lack of knowledge.

May Allah unite the muslims in general and somalis in particular upon the Qur'aan and Sunnah and distance ourselves from khawarij and takfir.

[Sampharo]

:sl:

Yea it did more than before, JazakAllah Khair.

Are there any references to this in the Qur'an or just the hadiths?

Yes there is reference, but just like Zakat and Salat and other commandments and rulings, it is hadith that is specific and detailing explanations.

The verse in Quran "O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."[4:59] is the fundamental guidance towards that those of authority have a right of obedience, conditions met and exceptions removed of course.

Based on the prophet's hadith, the ruler is clarified as not only Islamically elected: "The ruler is whomever is made Bayaa to, whomever the people gather around, or whomever wins over them in battle"

Most of all, it is the example of the companions and Tabe'in that shows us that even of the rulers are corrupt (which undoubtedly many of them today are) there is still no allowance to make armed combat against them. Even sensibly a person can see that any group that follows a slightly different methodology in interpretation (let alone completely misguided by wrong information into forming a deviant sect) can claim that the ruler is not abiding by Shariah as it should be. If armed revolt is tolerated, no ruler can ever manage a country, for there will always be fighters trying to topple him and killing whomever works for him under pretense of apostasy (for protecting a ruler who doesn't apply Shariah according to them). The response from a third group would be the same according to their view of Shariah, and so on. Even the prophet -pbuh- was accused by the first of those who adopted the Khawaarij ideals of being unjust (in the famous incident after The Raid of Honayn, when a man -may God save us from such deviance- proclaimed to the prophet that he believes the prophet -pbuh- is not being fair in distributing the Ghaneema. They even proclaimed Ali Ibn Abi Taleb -RAA- to be a kafir later on when he was Khalifa.

It is too obvious that Khawaarij claims are impossible to apply and that the first who cannot apply it are themselves. The heinous abomination is commited even before they attack civilians.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ok well what if the ruler in charge is being unjust towards his people, causing harm to them and making their life a living hell? Are we supposed to just sit and watch? And if demonstrating or speaking up is doing nothing? Put aside Shariah for a moment.

If they're ruling with other than Islam? Half and half of Shariah or Islam is not the same..

[rpwelton]

I'm sure brother Sampharo will return with an educated response as far what we as Muslims can do when we witness oppression by Muslim rulers, but I would like to make one point. That is, we should always refer back to the Qur'an and Sunnah when it comes to making a judgment on something, and never let our emotions get the better of us.

There are some people I know who will cling so insistently on a wrong interpretation of a verse, despite the fact that there are many ahadith which contradict their interpretation. They favor their political agenda over true evidence. All they want to do is establish shari'ah at any cost, when in reality this is never how shari'ah was established in the past. It was through the righteous jihad of Muslims who understood the Qur'an and the Sunnah and how to apply it.

As Muslims we should want Shari'ah to be enforced in the Muslim lands, but we also have to realize that in times like this there are appropriate responses and inappropriate ones. We must denounce what many of the corrupt Muslim rulers of today do, but we must also realize that it is a lesser fitnah than the widespread corruption and anarchy that results from overthrowing a government and throwing a people into chaos.

And Allah knows best.

[Sampharo]

Put aside Shariah for a moment.

Would not do so because this is what this board and what the subject is all about. Islamic World was nothing more than a group of warring tribes and broken nations, and in one generation became the ruling empire of one quarter of the known World, and that is by Islam. Since that time ruling by other than Islam has taken away that dignity and pride and glory, BECAUSE people have started to accept things other than Islam. God gave us Shariah and we gained dignity and honour because of it, if we reject it we will find nothing but humiliation and sorrow, and that is what we have today.

Ok well what if the ruler in charge is being unjust towards his people, causing harm to them and making their life a living hell? Are we supposed to just sit and watch? And if demonstrating or speaking up is doing nothing?

If there is too much injustice by the ruler, and tyranny is too much to bare... islamic ruling is to leave:

"When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the land." They say: "Was not the land of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! - " [4:97]

Ruling from the book of Ibn Kathir and Al-Qortobi: "whomever lives with kuffar or in a land of non-Islam and is unable to uphold or practice their religion properly must leave, or else they carry the sin of that deviance of their religion..."

If this is the ruling if living under outright kuffar and non-muslims, how can it not be for corrupt muslim ruler? and instead some people substitute it with outright breaking of the prophet's hadiths and islamic commandments of not fighting rulers even if corrupt and find that the solution is to raise arms?

Socialogists and economists today say that migration is a great factor of weakness to a dictatorship. Land is God's land, and people control themselves. The less people under a tyrant's control, the lesser army he can hold, lesser resources he can access.

God's limits are there for a reason. You cannot say forbidding adultery is too hard because urges and desires are strong, when the right way of marriage was given. Similarly those Khawaarij cannot say fighting the ruler was the only way and is too hard to forbid that, when patience and leaving the land was what was prescribed by the One and Only.

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Would not do so because this is what this board and what the subject is all about. Islamic World was nothing more than a group of warring tribes and broken nations, and in one generation became the ruling empire of one quarter of the known World, and that is by Islam. Since that time ruling by other than Islam has taken away that dignity and pride and glory, BECAUSE people have started to accept things other than Islam. God gave us Shariah and we gained dignity and honour because of it, if we reject it we will find nothing but humiliation and sorrow, and that is what we have today.

:sl:

When I said put Shariah aside for a moment, I didn't say reject it astaghfirullah. I'd die before I even think about anything other than Shariah...so you don't need to go into a whole lecture for me...jazakAllah anyway...
I meant in general terms. Anyway I don't even remember what I was thinking at the moment that made me say that, going back to it, it sounds wrong lol.

If there is too much injustice by the ruler, and tyranny is too much to bare... islamic ruling is to leave:

"When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the land." They say: "Was not the land of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! - " [4:97]

Ruling from the book of Ibn Kathir and Al-Qortobi: "whomever lives with kuffar or in a land of non-Islam and is unable to uphold or practice their religion properly must leave, or else they carry the sin of that deviance of their religion..."

If this is the ruling if living under outright kuffar and non-muslims, how can it not be for corrupt muslim ruler? and instead some people substitute it with outright breaking of the prophet's hadiths and islamic commandments of not fighting rulers even if corrupt and find that the solution is to raise arms?

Socialogists and economists today say that migration is a great factor of weakness to a dictatorship. Land is God's land, and people control themselves. The less people under a tyrant's control, the lesser army he can hold, lesser resources he can access.

God's limits are there for a reason. You cannot say forbidding adultery is too hard because urges and desires are strong, when the right way of marriage was given. Similarly those Khawaarij cannot say fighting the ruler was the only way and is too hard to forbid that, when patience and leaving the land was what was prescribed by the One and Only.

JazakAllah Khair.

:w:

[سيف الله]

Salaam

US to engage in 'hit and run' war in Somalia

The United States is involved in preparatory military operations in Somali for a 'major' offensive against Somali fighters, report says. US is providing military assistance to Somali government in order to retake capital Mogadishu from Somali fighters, a recent report in The New York Times indicates.

The American military is conducting nighttime surveillance in the Al-Shabab-controlled areas of the capital and training Somali intelligence officers and forces in addition to providing logistical supports for the government, the report adds. All the preliminary efforts, including reconnaissance and logistic operations, are meant to help launch a major assault on what US government dubs the 'al-Qaeda' branch in Somalia within 'a few' weeks.

“It's the Americans … helping us," the US newspaper quoted Somali military chief General Mohamed Gelle Kahiye as saying. Meanwhile, a US official who spoke on condition of anonymity was quoted in the report as saying that American 'covert forces would get involved if the offensive fails to dislodge al-Qaeda terrorists.'

“What you're likely to see is airstrikes and Special Ops moving in, hitting and getting out,” noted the official. The report also refers to secret US military and intelligence involvement in the Horn of Africa conflicts in the aftermath of the overthrow of Somalia's junta leader Mohamed Siad Barre in 1991.

It also mentions the US Central Intelligence Agency's failed collaborations with Somali warlords to stop the fighters in 2006 which led to a US-backed invasion of the impoverished African state by Ethiopian forces in the effort to kill top leaders of Somali fighters. In summer 2009, the American government hastily shipped in millions of dollars of weapons in order to save the Somali government, it went on to say.

Recently, there have been reports of the arrival of US defense contractors in Somalia in order to support 'peace efforts' there. American officials claim that between 6,000 and 10,000 trained Somalia troops would fight in the offensive against an estimated 5,000 Somali fighters.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020501