tangled marriage mess - help!

[seekingsolace]

I am a relatively new American revert (about 3 months now) living in the US. I have been a widow for four years, and have a young son.

I was introduced to an Iraqi man who is here as a graduate student and who was looking for a wife. We seemed very compatible (similar goals, education levels, and most importantly devotion practicing Islam), and we were soon engaged to be married. My son has met him, and they love each other. He was to accompany me over the winter break to meet my parents before the wedding in January. We have developed a very strong affection for each other and it seems like a perfect match.

He had told me that he had been married in Iraq, and had a young daughter there. He misses his daughter terribly. His wife had refused to come to the US and so he decided to divorce her. Since he had to leave quickly for school, he gave the papers to his mother to finish the divorce. That was a year ago. He has since applied for asylum in the US.

Last week, he gets an email from his attorney in Iraq saying "Congratulations! Your wife and daughter have been approved for refugee visas to the US, and they will arrive there in 30 days." He called his mother, who had decided on her own not to finish their divorce and pressure his wife to come to the US instead (his wife is his mother's sister's daughter). He told her about me, and she was so angry with him and screaming so loudly he had to hang up the phone.

We both care very much for each other, and we are both heartbroken. He doesn't feel he can tell his wife not to come because 1) his mother would never forgive him and 2) he would finally be with his daughter again.

He has not even spoken to his wife since he found out. From what he tells me they have a cold relationship. He is hoping that when she gets here, she will hate the US and want to go home. If she does, he is going to file for divorce here, which would mean he would keep custody of his daughter.

In the meantime, he wants me to become his second wife before she gets here. However, he doesn't want to tell either his wife or mother about me if we do marry. It would not be a official marriage in the eyes of the government either. I don't know much about how that works, given that multiple wives are not a part of our culture (and technically illegal here).

He knows that he will not be able to spend equal time with me especially at first. Because he is a student with no job (and cant get one with a J-1 visa), he will have trouble just supporting his current wife and child. They will have to be on public assistance until he graduates. Fortunately, I make very good money as a healthcare professional, and can support myself. Still, he is hoping that I will agree since he sees it as the only way we can be together. He says he hopes she will want to leave, and then I can be his only wife once he has his daughter.

Needless to say, my American Christian family would be outraged if I became a second wife. I still have not figured out how I would handle *that.* (I'm still worried about how they will react when I get off the plane in hijab next month as I have waited to tell them in person...)

While I hate what has happened to us, I feel even more badly for his wife. She has no idea he was engaged to another woman, much less that he wants to have me as a second wife. She has no idea that he has such little income, and what financial problems they will have. She has never lived outside of Iraq, and doesnt have any idea what kind of things she might face here (for example, we live in a rural midwest town where the closest halal meat shop is an hour and a half away...and he doesn't own a car). She doesn't know that if she wants to go home he will keep her daughter (no US court will allow a mother to take a child on refugee status back to the home country...he will get custody with no problems). She doesn't speak much English, and there are very few Arabic speakers in our rural town. I feel I must be compassionate towards her and consider her in this decision too.

So I need some advice please....

1) Should I even consider becoming his second wife knowing that I will not be treated equally, that his current wife will not know, and that I will not be acknowledged before his family and tribe?

2) If I did marry him, would it be right for her not to know? I feel that she should know, but again not being familiar with polygyny I dont know what the rules of etiquette are.

3) It is right to marry without the blessing of one's parents? I know his mother would never get over this because of her relation to his wife, because I am an American, and because he would have defied her by marrying me. My parents would never bless our marriage if they found out he was also married to someone else. I would be forced to be dishonest with them.

Please help me find the right path through this tangled mess!!! :cry:

[Dagless]

1) If you will not be treated equally he has no place even asking you to be his second wife. From the sound of things he will have enough trouble supporting 1 wife and child.

2) Not only must she know, she must be happy with, and accept, the arrangement.

3) I'll leave someone else to answer this.

Love sucks huh?

If he started the divorce then his wife should have some idea that things are not great between them. I would tell you to back off and let him be with his family since he has more to lose if he loses them than if he loses you. Unfortunately it sounds like you guys are in love and in such cases logic goes out the window.

He needs to sit down with her and make a choice. Please don't put your hope in her not liking the US. I know the US has its problems, but come on... would anyone want to go back to Iraq right now?! The US would be a better place to bring up a child.

Try not to worry since this is his choice to make. You've made your feelings and commitment clear, and that's all you can do. Relax and pray for the best... whatever that may be.

[AlHoda]

:sl:

Me dear sister, in such times the only person you can go to is Allah (swt). I am only 17 ,and I have no idea how to solve such acomplicated problem. May Allah (swt) help you.:)

:wa:

[cat eyes]

:sl: well sister id have no problem marrying him if he had a good income you know what i mean. marriage is not about spending time in the bed you have to think about if you had kids with this guy tomorrow how would he be able to support all of you and he don't even have residence in the us

the second thing is he'd really have to let his wife know because thats not right sis. i would not like that id be even angry if he mentioned to me that he won't tell his other wife, id dump him straight away. also i have never heard that a man needs to ask permission to marry another woman i have never heard of this thing before so if people could produce hadith evidence it would be helpful but if i were you id want that the wife should know.

the third thing and the most important is that he'd have to be practicing the deen thats the most important thing for me and he have to have more knowledge then myself so he can influence me also and help me grow as i am also a revert myself.

hope i helped :wa:

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[mariyyah]

I am a relatively new American revert (about 3 months now) living in the US. I have been a widow for four years, and have a young son.

I was introduced to an Iraqi man who is here as a graduate student and who was looking for a wife. We seemed very compatible (similar goals, education levels, and most importantly devotion practicing Islam), and we were soon engaged to be married. My son has met him, and they love each other. He was to accompany me over the winter break to meet my parents before the wedding in January. We have developed a very strong affection for each other and it seems like a perfect match.

He had told me that he had been married in Iraq, and had a young daughter there. He misses his daughter terribly. His wife had refused to come to the US and so he decided to divorce her. Since he had to leave quickly for school, he gave the papers to his mother to finish the divorce. That was a year ago. He has since applied for asylum in the US.

Last week, he gets an email from his attorney in Iraq saying "Congratulations! Your wife and daughter have been approved for refugee visas to the US, and they will arrive there in 30 days." He called his mother, who had decided on her own not to finish their divorce and pressure his wife to come to the US instead (his wife is his mother's sister's daughter). He told her about me, and she was so angry with him and screaming so loudly he had to hang up the phone.

We both care very much for each other, and we are both heartbroken. He doesn't feel he can tell his wife not to come because 1) his mother would never forgive him and 2) he would finally be with his daughter again.

He has not even spoken to his wife since he found out. From what he tells me they have a cold relationship. He is hoping that when she gets here, she will hate the US and want to go home. If she does, he is going to file for divorce here, which would mean he would keep custody of his daughter.

In the meantime, he wants me to become his second wife before she gets here. However, he doesn't want to tell either his wife or mother about me if we do marry. It would not be a official marriage in the eyes of the government either. I don't know much about how that works, given that multiple wives are not a part of our culture (and technically illegal here).

He knows that he will not be able to spend equal time with me especially at first. Because he is a student with no job (and cant get one with a J-1 visa), he will have trouble just supporting his current wife and child. They will have to be on public assistance until he graduates. Fortunately, I make very good money as a healthcare professional, and can support myself. Still, he is hoping that I will agree since he sees it as the only way we can be together. He says he hopes she will want to leave, and then I can be his only wife once he has his daughter.

Needless to say, my American Christian family would be outraged if I became a second wife. I still have not figured out how I would handle *that.* (I'm still worried about how they will react when I get off the plane in hijab next month as I have waited to tell them in person...)

While I hate what has happened to us, I feel even more badly for his wife. She has no idea he was engaged to another woman, much less that he wants to have me as a second wife. She has no idea that he has such little income, and what financial problems they will have. She has never lived outside of Iraq, and doesnt have any idea what kind of things she might face here (for example, we live in a rural midwest town where the closest halal meat shop is an hour and a half away...and he doesn't own a car). She doesn't know that if she wants to go home he will keep her daughter (no US court will allow a mother to take a child on refugee status back to the home country...he will get custody with no problems). She doesn't speak much English, and there are very few Arabic speakers in our rural town. I feel I must be compassionate towards her and consider her in this decision too.

So I need some advice please....

1) Should I even consider becoming his second wife knowing that I will not be treated equally, that his current wife will not know, and that I will not be acknowledged before his family and tribe?

2) If I did marry him, would it be right for her not to know? I feel that she should know, but again not being familiar with polygyny I dont know what the rules of etiquette are.

3) It is right to marry without the blessing of one's parents? I know his mother would never get over this because of her relation to his wife, because I am an American, and because he would have defied her by marrying me. My parents would never bless our marriage if they found out he was also married to someone else. I would be forced to be dishonest with them.

Please help me find the right path through this tangled mess!!! :cry:

Assalamou Alaikoum Warahmatou Allah Taala Wabarakatou,

Sister first i would like to say congratulations to you to join us in the islam and here are the answers to your questions

first in the islam to marry him he have to ask permission from his wife and if she accept then he can marry you

second he doesnt need his mother permission to marry you as you are both adult and the wali should be a man and not a woman and ALLAH SWT knows the best

Sister why you want to marry a man who have already a wife and a daughter and how can you trust him , may be hes using you because hes jobless and you are helping him with finance so please be careful and wake up

third a man who can marry a second wife he can marry a third and fourth so dont trust and leave him to his family and INSHALLAH ALLAH SWT will bring to you the right muslim man to marry you and in this forum there are so many good muslims brothers they could be interesting and khair INSHALLAH

I hope thats help you

[Dagless]

:sl: well sister id have no problem marrying him if he had a good income you know what i mean. marriage is not about spending time in the bed you have to think about if you had kids with this guy tomorrow how would he be able to support all of you and he don't even have residence in the us

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Wait... actually that's exactly what I am saying. If you have love for this guy then forget income, forget all else, just wait and see if he chooses you.

[Alpha Dude]

2) Not only must she know, she must be happy with, and accept, the arrangement.

Actually no, I don't believe that is the case. There is no Islamic requirement that the first wife be informed beforehand. Although, of course, it wouldn't be wise of the husband to do such a thing.

[cat eyes]

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Wait... actually that's exactly what I am saying. If you have love for this guy then forget income, forget all else, just wait and see if he chooses you.

hahhahaaaaha ;D;D;D;D;D this is just classic i never laughed so hard in my life how am i a gold digger if i wanted that my husband should be able to support two wives and our kids???? please learn a few things before posting! its the right of the wife

[Salahudeen]

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Wait... actually that's exactly what I am saying. If you have love for this guy then forget income, forget all else, just wait and see if he chooses you.

I don't think that's very fair, in Islam part of a women's right when she gets married is that the husband provides food and clothing. If he doesn't have a very good income he's NOT going to be able to do that is he, so he won't be able to fulfill the wifes right over him.

In Islam, it's a women's right that the husband clothes her and feeds her so she has to see if his income will allow him to do that.

It's not called being a gold digger, it's called looking at the facts like his income and assessing whether or not he'll be able to provide the basic rights of a wife. Other things like his deen are taken into account also and then you make a decision based upon them.

would you marry your daughter to a man who had no job or income and he made her go out and work and pay the bills?

or would you let your sister marry a man who had no income and no way of fulfilling her basic rights as a wife. The rights that Islam gives her.

And I don't think it's very wise of you telling her

"if you have love for the guy then forget his income, forget all else just wait and see if he chooses you"

the messenger of Alllah peace be upon him told us the criterion and what to look for when we get married and he never told us to forget all else if you love some 1.

The best criterion for choosing a partner in marriage was stated by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him):

"A woman is married for four things, ie., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser." (Narrated by Abu Huraira – from Al Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 27)

inshallah try and look at what Islam and our (prophet peace be upon him) say on the matter and not what Kanye West says.

[UmmSqueakster]

Some random thoughts:

*Being in an intercultural marriage is HARD. Being in a polygamous intercultural marriage is even HARDER. Why enter a marriage that has so many obsticles? Both are doable, but to have both together makes in near impossible

*I've witnessed a lot of polygamous marriages here in america, and sadly, they usually don't work out. The likelyhood that they won't work out increases when it's a secret marriage. The only way I've seen it work is if all parties involved - both wives, the husband - are open and honest about it before it happens. If my husband snuck around behind my back and married someone without my knowledge, he'd be out the door. It destroys the trust the couple has and that trust is very hard to rebuild.

*As a new convert, getting married is hard. You're still learning your religion, and now you have to learn to be the perfect wife for the man too. I usually advise converts to wait a few years before they get married. I myself didn't get married until 3 years after I converted, and even that was too soon for me. I've developed my deen since then, and found that my husband (who I do love dearly) and I practice the religion very differently. It's a strain on our marriage I wish I didn't have.

*As a new convert, I would NEVER EVER EVER recomend a polygamous marriage. Nearly every polygamous marriage situation I've witnessed involving a convert has ended badly, and sadly the convert wife is so mistreated that she ends up leaving islam as well imsad

*visa/green card issues - he's here on a J-1 and applied for asylum? There's always a chance he won't get it, and then you're up a crick with no paddle. He could be deported (especially if they find out he's practicing polygamy). And, if he were to get approved, he would have to swear on the forms he fills out for a green card that he is not practicing polygamy. That would be a big fat lie, and one that could get him deported later.

[Hamza Asadullah]

I am a relatively new American revert (about 3 months now) living in the US. I have been a widow for four years, and have a young son.

I was introduced to an Iraqi man who is here as a graduate student and who was looking for a wife. We seemed very compatible (similar goals, education levels, and most importantly devotion practicing Islam), and we were soon engaged to be married. My son has met him, and they love each other. He was to accompany me over the winter break to meet my parents before the wedding in January. We have developed a very strong affection for each other and it seems like a perfect match.

He had told me that he had been married in Iraq, and had a young daughter there. He misses his daughter terribly. His wife had refused to come to the US and so he decided to divorce her. Since he had to leave quickly for school, he gave the papers to his mother to finish the divorce. That was a year ago. He has since applied for asylum in the US.

Last week, he gets an email from his attorney in Iraq saying "Congratulations! Your wife and daughter have been approved for refugee visas to the US, and they will arrive there in 30 days." He called his mother, who had decided on her own not to finish their divorce and pressure his wife to come to the US instead (his wife is his mother's sister's daughter). He told her about me, and she was so angry with him and screaming so loudly he had to hang up the phone.

We both care very much for each other, and we are both heartbroken. He doesn't feel he can tell his wife not to come because 1) his mother would never forgive him and 2) he would finally be with his daughter again.

He has not even spoken to his wife since he found out. From what he tells me they have a cold relationship. He is hoping that when she gets here, she will hate the US and want to go home. If she does, he is going to file for divorce here, which would mean he would keep custody of his daughter.

In the meantime, he wants me to become his second wife before she gets here. However, he doesn't want to tell either his wife or mother about me if we do marry. It would not be a official marriage in the eyes of the government either. I don't know much about how that works, given that multiple wives are not a part of our culture (and technically illegal here).

He knows that he will not be able to spend equal time with me especially at first. Because he is a student with no job (and cant get one with a J-1 visa), he will have trouble just supporting his current wife and child. They will have to be on public assistance until he graduates. Fortunately, I make very good money as a healthcare professional, and can support myself. Still, he is hoping that I will agree since he sees it as the only way we can be together. He says he hopes she will want to leave, and then I can be his only wife once he has his daughter.

Needless to say, my American Christian family would be outraged if I became a second wife. I still have not figured out how I would handle *that.* (I'm still worried about how they will react when I get off the plane in hijab next month as I have waited to tell them in person...)

While I hate what has happened to us, I feel even more badly for his wife. She has no idea he was engaged to another woman, much less that he wants to have me as a second wife. She has no idea that he has such little income, and what financial problems they will have. She has never lived outside of Iraq, and doesnt have any idea what kind of things she might face here (for example, we live in a rural midwest town where the closest halal meat shop is an hour and a half away...and he doesn't own a car). She doesn't know that if she wants to go home he will keep her daughter (no US court will allow a mother to take a child on refugee status back to the home country...he will get custody with no problems). She doesn't speak much English, and there are very few Arabic speakers in our rural town. I feel I must be compassionate towards her and consider her in this decision too.

So I need some advice please....

1) Should I even consider becoming his second wife knowing that I will not be treated equally, that his current wife will not know, and that I will not be acknowledged before his family and tribe?

2) If I did marry him, would it be right for her not to know? I feel that she should know, but again not being familiar with polygyny I dont know what the rules of etiquette are.

3) It is right to marry without the blessing of one's parents? I know his mother would never get over this because of her relation to his wife, because I am an American, and because he would have defied her by marrying me. My parents would never bless our marriage if they found out he was also married to someone else. I would be forced to be dishonest with them.

Please help me find the right path through this tangled mess!!! :cry:

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb my sister welcome to the forum and jazakallah khayran for sharing your sensative situation with us. I have pasted some scholarly answers to questions asked about second marriages.

According to the fatwa of major Arab and Indo-Pak scholars is that it is generally wrong and unwise in our times to marry a second wife, without consulting wise and knowledgeable scholars (even though it is in itself permitted), because of the harm and mess that inevitably results:

a) the harm to the first wife;

b) the troubles with the second wife when the first is upset;

c) the harm of not giving both their legal, emotional, and material rights;

d) the harm to family relations;

e) and, also vitally, the harm to one’s children…

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Marrying more than one wife is, in principle, without doubt permissible in Islam, but the conditions for doing so are really strict that they are almost impossible to fulfil, especially in our times.

The Quran and Sunnah have laid down certain strict conditions for practicing polygyny, such as equal treatment of the wives in all aspects, being financially in a position to provide equally for both, spending equal time, etc. These are just some conditions that are easily said than done. Just ask those who have opted to marry more than once, how difficult it is to maintain more than one wife.

Allah Most High states:

“…If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one…” (Surah al-Nisa, 3).

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“A man who marries more than one woman and then does not deal justly with them will be resurrected with half his faculties paralysed.” (Sahih al-Bukhari).

Thus, many major scholars have advised not to marry more than one wife for the sake of it unless there is a genuine and pressing need, such as the husband being sure of falling into adultery (and not just merely wanting to fulfil his desires).

In the mentioned situation (and according to the details given in the question), it seems that the brother should avoid accepting the sister as his second wife. It has been mentioned that the brother has financial difficulties, thus this makes it all the more necessary for him to avoid marrying her.

He has his own two children to look after and provide for, and then this other sister has five children, thus the financial burden and strain this will have on the brother is obvious. It may also harm his own two children, and inevitably create problems with his current wife.

Therefore, the advice to the brother is to avoid getting into this second marriage, and to explain to the other sister in a kind and gentle way (with wisdom) that he is not the right person for her, and that he is not in a position to maintain two wives and seven children. Also make Dua that the sister concerned finds a husband who is suitable for her and that he is not faced with a heavy burden of duties and responsibilities.

The above does not imply in any way that it is unlawful to marry second time, rather this is the practical advice based on what has been mentioned in the question. It would also be advisable to discuss the issue with a local scholar whose knowledge and wisdom you respect.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam

In regards to Second marriage and the rights of wives


In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

It is one of the foremost requirements from a man who has more than one wife to treat all his wives equally and justly. There are grave warnings mentioned in the Qur’an and Sunnah for oppressing, mistreating or not being fair with the wives. The Qur’an conditioned the permissibility of marrying more than one wife with justice and fair treatment.

Allah Most High says:

“If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, three, or four, but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one.. (Surah al-Nisa, 3).

It is a grave sin to treat the wives unequally. Any man who wishes to take a second wife also has to meet the important condition of fair treatment of all his wives. The verse quoted above includes the command to treat wives equally, and anyone who is unable to do so should marry only one wife.

Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “A man who has two wives and he does not deal justly with them will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment with half his body paralysed.” (Sunan Tirmizi, no. 1141)

Equal treatment includes all social, economical and physical needs. It is very difficult for human beings to be completely fair, a fact which is recognised by the Qur’an:

“You are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air)... (Surah al-Nisa, 129).

The above verse alludes to the fact that, a man must be fair in his external treatment of his wives, in that he should spend equal time with all of them, spend out on them equally, etc. However, if his heart is inclined towards one or he has more love for one wife over the other, then that is not blameworthy, for it is beyond his control.

Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would treat his wives equally and justly, and then say: “O Allah! This is my distribution according to my capability, thus do not hold me for what you own and I don’t (meaning, what is in your capability and beyond my means).” (Sunan Tirmizi, no. 1140, Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 3133 & Musnad Ahmad).

Imam al-Mawsili (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“It is mandatory upon a man to treat his wives equally with regards to spending the night….. A virgin, non-virgin, old, new, freed slave, Muslim and from the people of the book all have equal rights, and must be treated equally….. However, equality and fairness is not necessary with regards to sexual intercourse and love, for the former is based on agility and energy (nashat), whilst the latter (love) is the action of the heart.” (al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-Mukhtar, 3/143).

A wife may even relinquish her right of spending the night with her husband and give it to her co-wife. It is narrated that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) issued a revocable divorce to Sawda bint Zam’a (Allah be pleased with her). She requested the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to take her back, and that she will allocate her turn (of spending the night) to A’isha (Allah be pleased with her), in order that she may be included among the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) on the day of Judgment, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) fulfilled her wish and took her back. (See: Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/966, no. 3237)

If a wife relinquished her right, then she has a right in the future to once again demand equality. Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“If a wife granted her right of companionship with the husband to her co-wife, then this will be valid, and she will have the right to reverse her decision in the future if she so desires.” (See: Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 3/206)

Similarly, it will be permissible for the husband to remain more in the company of one wife with the express permission of the other, for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) sought the permission of his wives during his illness that led to his demise (maradh al-Mawt) in order that he remain in the house of Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). His wives granted him permission, thus he spent his last days until he passed away in the house of A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4919)

As far as travelling is concerned, one may travel with whom one wishes, although it is preferable to draw lots and travel in the company of the one whose name appears. The reason being, that, one may feel more comfortable with one wife than the other whilst travelling, or she may be more suitable in being a travel companion. However, the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) was to draw lots and travel with the one whose name appeared. (Radd al-Muhtar, 3/206)

It must be explained to the husband about the necessity of equal and fair treatment, and the warnings of punishment for failing to treat the wives fairly. It is clearly understood from the above explanation as to exactly what rights a second wife has and what he must do.

Despite all attempts, if the husband fails to adhere to the injunctions of Shariah, then the second wife may exercise patience, for which there is great reward. However, if the suffering is too much to bear, then the second wife may refer her case to an Islamic council for the dissolution of marriage on grounds of oppression (jawr) and unfair treatment.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

Thus Sacred Law absolutely requires men to treat their wives equitably. Equitable treatment includes, but is not limited to:

1. Financial support and maintenance

2. Housing

3. Companionship

4. Fair division of time between households

This is the letter of the law. If a man cannot deal equitably between wives, it is impermissible for him to enter into a polygynous marriage.

It is clear from what your telling us that this man would not be able to fulfill your rights as a second wife as he would clearly struggle to fulfill the rights of his first wife.

Also the fact that he is decieving her by trying to make her come here in order to put her off America so that she can go back to her country and leave her daughter with you, this is utterly disgraceful and you should not associate yourself with this man any longer.

Please put yourself into the shoes of his wife. If he did that to you what he is planning to do with his first wife how would you feel? Your life would be ruined. He is wanting to ruin the life of his first wife out of his own selfisheness. This is NOT the attribute of a good man at all.

[cat eyes]

imsad thank you brother squiggle for backing me up. MashaAllah! I was very hurt over that nasty remark. Wish there was more brothers like you. SubhanAllah I was not going to care about the brothers income if it was just me in his life but having another wife and then add kids on to that its a whole different story.

[Dagless]

Actually no, I don't believe that is the case. There is no Islamic requirement that the first wife be informed beforehand. Although, of course, it wouldn't be wise of the husband to do such a thing.

You are quite right but if he does not tell her or she does not want a second wife then it will lead to a broken home. He should be treating his wife with respect, not hiding things like this.

hahhahaaaaha ;D;D;D;D;D this is just classic i never laughed so hard in my life how am i a gold digger if i wanted that my husband should be able to support two wives and our kids???? please learn a few things before posting! its the right of the wife

The girl already said she has a good income and she loves him. What more do you want! Btw the pic with the quote was said in jest. I did not mean to hurt you so I'm sorry if I did.

I don't think that's very fair, in Islam part of a women's right when she gets married is that the husband provides food and clothing. If he doesn't have a very good income he's NOT going to be able to do that is he, so he won't be able to fulfill the wifes right over him.

In Islam, it's a women's right that the husband clothes her and feeds her so she has to see if his income will allow him to do that.

It's not called being a gold digger, it's called looking at the facts like his income and assessing whether or not he'll be able to provide the basic rights of a wife. Other things like his deen are taken into account also and then you make a decision based upon them.

would you marry your daughter to a man who had no job or income and he made her go out and work and pay the bills?

or would you let your sister marry a man who had no income and no way of fulfilling her basic rights as a wife. The rights that Islam gives her.

And I don't think it's very wise of you telling her

"if you have love for the guy then forget his income, forget all else just wait and see if he chooses you"

the messenger of Alllah peace be upon him told us the criterion and what to look for when we get married and he never told us to forget all else if you love some 1.

The best criterion for choosing a partner in marriage was stated by Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him):

"A woman is married for four things, ie., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. So you should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser." (Narrated by Abu Huraira – from Al Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 27)

inshallah try and look at what Islam and our (prophet peace be upon him) say on the matter and not what Kanye West says.

Why is it not wise telling her that? She already loves the guy, it is irrelevant what that love should be based on since it already exists.

[Asiyah3]

:sl:

I agree with Hamza81.

May Allah guide all of us and them

[Salahudeen]

You are quite right but if he does not tell her or she does not want a second wife then it will lead to a broken home. He should be treating his wife with respect, not hiding things like this.



The girl already said she has a good income and she loves him. What more do you want! Btw the pic with the quote was said in jest. I did not mean to hurt you so I'm sorry if I did.



Why is it not wise telling her that? She already loves the guy, it is irrelevant what that love should be based on since it already exists.

Thanks for taking the time to type this info, I'm really happy for you, and imma let you finish... but the Quran has some of the best info of all time, OF ALL TIME!

hmm I already told you, it's not wise cos there's many other factors involved for example, another women, kids, permnant stay it's not as black and white as you make it out to be and the (prophet peace be upon him) told us the criterion of what to look for and he didn't say "if you love them forget everything else" as you say. And who gives better and more wiser advice than the prophet of Allah peace be upon him.

And just because you love some 1 it doesn't mean they're the right person for you, for example Muslim's fall in love with non muslims does that mean they should marry them??

women fall in love with abusive men does that mean they should marry them?

women fall in love with men who womanise does that mean they should marry them?

should she still marry him if he's after getting permanant stay in the USA?

according to your theory they should, cos as you said "if you have love for the guy then forget his income, forget all else just wait and see if he chooses you"

Love is an emotion that you feel towards a particular person, it doesn't guarantee that person is right for you, but if you follow the advice of the prophet (saw) and look for what he advised then inshallah you'll find a righteous partner who improves you in your religion and helps you to get to jannah.

as they say love is blind a person could be the worst person in the world for you but because of your love for them you don't see it till they hurt you.

And I know the girl has a good income I never said she never, I said you shouldn't criticize a person by calling them a gold digger because they look at man's income.

and my basis for saying this was the fact that Islam makes it a requirement on the man that he has the ability to provide food and clothing for his wife.

sorry if I hurt any egos when I was speaking of what the prophet peace be upon him and the religion of Islam advises.

And I apologize to the sis for taking her thread to another direction, if you would like to discuss further akhi pm me as it's not fair for the sis that her thread be hijacked like this.

[seekingsolace]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. It is true that I don't care about the money issue. Allah has blessed me far beyond what I deserve, so my income is such that I could support all five of us if I needed to without problem.

I spoke with him about it today. We are going next Saturday morning to meet with an imam whom we both respect inshallah. I suspect he will say much the same as you have said and I have concluded, that this is generally a bad idea.

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

He spoke with her on the phone (finally) yesterday. He told her that when she gets here, she will need to go back to school so that she can get a good job. She currently works in the legal system there, but her credentials and her English skills are insufficient to get anything much above unskilled labor here. She was furious with him, and started shouting on the phone asking why should she come in the first place. She has a good job, a nice house, a nice car, and lots of family and friends in Iraq. Here she will have nothing but him, and if he has his way, only half of that.

(it does seem as though his family back home likes to shout at him a lot....LOL)

So he tells me he's not even sure she will really come, and if she does he doesn't think it will work. I am thinking now this second wife business is more of a ploy to keep me bound to him until the first wife decides what she will do.

I could not help but to ask him what would keep him from taking a secret second wife on me if we did have a single marriage down the road. He laughed, of course, and said that with me there would be no need.

Right.

So I think I'm going to let the imam be the one to tell him the bad news next weekend. I will not say that it will be easy for me to do. Having been alone for the past four years, the offer of any companionship is tempting especially with someone who is otherwise so compatible.

But maybe temptation is the key word here....

I think I'll wait for something more honest and correct, even if it means I have to wait the rest of my life. I don't have the beauty, but I do have the other three qualities. Maybe one day a good brother will decide three out of four is enough?

[Salahudeen]

hmm Mut'a so I take it he's a shia then. Mut'a marriages are not allowed. but shia's still pratice it. But in main stream Islam you'll find such a thing doesn't exist.

I think you have your answer. mut'a is like prostitution in my eyes, marry a women for abit enjoy her then divorce her when you'd had your fun. The whole thing sounds dodgy in my eyes to be honest. Are you sure he's not just with you so he can get permnant citizenship aswell as having the luxury of you supporting him financially?

you made a valid point, what is there to keep him from taking a second wife and lying to you about it. If he's willing to do it with her what's to stop him from doing it with you. Inshallah you'll find a nice brother sis who values your deen. And you said you don't have beauty well sister beauty is in the eye of the beholder, this is 1 of the blessings of Allah, not everyone finds the same thing beautifull, just because one person finds some 1 beautifull doesn't mean every body thinks that person is beautifull. So inshallah you'll find some and in his eyes you'll be beautifull.

[Insecured soul]

I think I'll wait for something more honest and correct, even if it means I have to wait the rest of my life. I don't have the beauty, but I do have the other three qualities. Maybe one day a good brother will decide three out of four is enough?

Allah is with u sister, its what my girlfriend told me when she left me :)

but now i realise its really true its only allah we need, he is sufficient and u will be guided, have patience.

[Humbler_359]

:sl: Sister,

First of all Congratulation for finding Islam. You learn Islam from the guy or yourself? How you meet him?

I didn't WANT to put you in difficult situation and will get worst later. Islamically, a husband doesn't allow to cheat his wife or wife doesn't allow to cheat husband.

From my understanding, it is between him and his first wife. It is his problems, not yours. You better take out of this mess triangle. Alot of family members wouldn't be pleased with your choice marrying him, that's why his mother forced his wife to come to US in order to make his husband very happy. He should be happy to see her and should solved the matters instead hiding the fact or avoiding her.

The thing I see is he didn't do right things that is unIslamic way.

Again, intercultural marriage is NOT EASY FOREVER due cultural differences and raise background...... (I had myself experiences with American revert imsad). There is more requirement than just love in between couples.

I don't want to make you feel down (I understand your four years unmarriage), I dislike to see people fell in trap like this. I suspect that he probably take you advantage to become US citizen or money for his studies. I could be wrong.

My advice is to find someone who is single or divorce status clearly in record. Up to you in your decide.

[mariyyah]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb my sister welcome to the forum and jazakallah khayran for sharing your sensative situation with us. I have pasted some scholarly answers to questions asked about second marriages.

According to the fatwa of major Arab and Indo-Pak scholars is that it is generally wrong and unwise in our times to marry a second wife, without consulting wise and knowledgeable scholars (even though it is in itself permitted), because of the harm and mess that inevitably results:

a) the harm to the first wife;

b) the troubles with the second wife when the first is upset;

c) the harm of not giving both their legal, emotional, and material rights;

d) the harm to family relations;

e) and, also vitally, the harm to one’s children…

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Marrying more than one wife is, in principle, without doubt permissible in Islam, but the conditions for doing so are really strict that they are almost impossible to fulfil, especially in our times.

The Quran and Sunnah have laid down certain strict conditions for practicing polygyny, such as equal treatment of the wives in all aspects, being financially in a position to provide equally for both, spending equal time, etc. These are just some conditions that are easily said than done. Just ask those who have opted to marry more than once, how difficult it is to maintain more than one wife.

Allah Most High states:

“…If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one…” (Surah al-Nisa, 3).

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“A man who marries more than one woman and then does not deal justly with them will be resurrected with half his faculties paralysed.” (Sahih al-Bukhari).

Thus, many major scholars have advised not to marry more than one wife for the sake of it unless there is a genuine and pressing need, such as the husband being sure of falling into adultery (and not just merely wanting to fulfil his desires).

In the mentioned situation (and according to the details given in the question), it seems that the brother should avoid accepting the sister as his second wife. It has been mentioned that the brother has financial difficulties, thus this makes it all the more necessary for him to avoid marrying her.

He has his own two children to look after and provide for, and then this other sister has five children, thus the financial burden and strain this will have on the brother is obvious. It may also harm his own two children, and inevitably create problems with his current wife.

Therefore, the advice to the brother is to avoid getting into this second marriage, and to explain to the other sister in a kind and gentle way (with wisdom) that he is not the right person for her, and that he is not in a position to maintain two wives and seven children. Also make Dua that the sister concerned finds a husband who is suitable for her and that he is not faced with a heavy burden of duties and responsibilities.

The above does not imply in any way that it is unlawful to marry second time, rather this is the practical advice based on what has been mentioned in the question. It would also be advisable to discuss the issue with a local scholar whose knowledge and wisdom you respect.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam

In regards to Second marriage and the rights of wives


In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

It is one of the foremost requirements from a man who has more than one wife to treat all his wives equally and justly. There are grave warnings mentioned in the Qur’an and Sunnah for oppressing, mistreating or not being fair with the wives. The Qur’an conditioned the permissibility of marrying more than one wife with justice and fair treatment.

Allah Most High says:

“If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, three, or four, but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one.. (Surah al-Nisa, 3).

It is a grave sin to treat the wives unequally. Any man who wishes to take a second wife also has to meet the important condition of fair treatment of all his wives. The verse quoted above includes the command to treat wives equally, and anyone who is unable to do so should marry only one wife.

Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “A man who has two wives and he does not deal justly with them will be resurrected on the Day of Judgment with half his body paralysed.” (Sunan Tirmizi, no. 1141)

Equal treatment includes all social, economical and physical needs. It is very difficult for human beings to be completely fair, a fact which is recognised by the Qur’an:

“You are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air)... (Surah al-Nisa, 129).

The above verse alludes to the fact that, a man must be fair in his external treatment of his wives, in that he should spend equal time with all of them, spend out on them equally, etc. However, if his heart is inclined towards one or he has more love for one wife over the other, then that is not blameworthy, for it is beyond his control.

Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would treat his wives equally and justly, and then say: “O Allah! This is my distribution according to my capability, thus do not hold me for what you own and I don’t (meaning, what is in your capability and beyond my means).” (Sunan Tirmizi, no. 1140, Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 3133 & Musnad Ahmad).

Imam al-Mawsili (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“It is mandatory upon a man to treat his wives equally with regards to spending the night….. A virgin, non-virgin, old, new, freed slave, Muslim and from the people of the book all have equal rights, and must be treated equally….. However, equality and fairness is not necessary with regards to sexual intercourse and love, for the former is based on agility and energy (nashat), whilst the latter (love) is the action of the heart.” (al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-Mukhtar, 3/143).

A wife may even relinquish her right of spending the night with her husband and give it to her co-wife. It is narrated that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) issued a revocable divorce to Sawda bint Zam’a (Allah be pleased with her). She requested the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) to take her back, and that she will allocate her turn (of spending the night) to A’isha (Allah be pleased with her), in order that she may be included among the wives of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) on the day of Judgment, thus the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) fulfilled her wish and took her back. (See: Mishkat al-Masabih, 2/966, no. 3237)

If a wife relinquished her right, then she has a right in the future to once again demand equality. Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“If a wife granted her right of companionship with the husband to her co-wife, then this will be valid, and she will have the right to reverse her decision in the future if she so desires.” (See: Radd al-Muhtar ala al-Durr al-Mukhtar, 3/206)

Similarly, it will be permissible for the husband to remain more in the company of one wife with the express permission of the other, for the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) sought the permission of his wives during his illness that led to his demise (maradh al-Mawt) in order that he remain in the house of Sayyida A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). His wives granted him permission, thus he spent his last days until he passed away in the house of A’isha (Allah be pleased with her). (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4919)

As far as travelling is concerned, one may travel with whom one wishes, although it is preferable to draw lots and travel in the company of the one whose name appears. The reason being, that, one may feel more comfortable with one wife than the other whilst travelling, or she may be more suitable in being a travel companion. However, the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) was to draw lots and travel with the one whose name appeared. (Radd al-Muhtar, 3/206)

It must be explained to the husband about the necessity of equal and fair treatment, and the warnings of punishment for failing to treat the wives fairly. It is clearly understood from the above explanation as to exactly what rights a second wife has and what he must do.

Despite all attempts, if the husband fails to adhere to the injunctions of Shariah, then the second wife may exercise patience, for which there is great reward. However, if the suffering is too much to bear, then the second wife may refer her case to an Islamic council for the dissolution of marriage on grounds of oppression (jawr) and unfair treatment.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari

Darul Iftaa, Leicester, UK

Thus Sacred Law absolutely requires men to treat their wives equitably. Equitable treatment includes, but is not limited to:

1. Financial support and maintenance

2. Housing

3. Companionship

4. Fair division of time between households

This is the letter of the law. If a man cannot deal equitably between wives, it is impermissible for him to enter into a polygynous marriage.

It is clear from what your telling us that this man would not be able to fulfill your rights as a second wife as he would clearly struggle to fulfill the rights of his first wife.

Also the fact that he is decieving her by trying to make her come here in order to put her off America so that she can go back to her country and leave her daughter with you, this is utterly disgraceful and you should not associate yourself with this man any longer.

Please put yourself into the shoes of his wife. If he did that to you what he is planning to do with his first wife how would you feel? Your life would be ruined. He is wanting to ruin the life of his first wife out of his own selfisheness. This is NOT the attribute of a good man at all.

Brother hamza 81 but there is a conditions to marry more women in the islam , you cannot marry a second wife as a virgin because you want to enjoy your self but the women you can marry like a widow or a poor divorced women with childrens kind of a women who need your help and support but not for enjoyment

[mariyyah]

I think in the case of the sister hes only using her and her finance and the rest from him is only a story at the end he will settle with his wife and daughter and have a job

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

I am a relatively new American revert (about 3 months now)

Welcome to Islam. May Allah increases His blessings in your life.

Please help me find the right path through this tangled mess!!! :cry:

Sis , do u know how to offer istekhara salat ? Ask Allah for guidance through this salat and supplication before taking an important decision.

[Danah]

:sl:



Welcome to Islam. May Allah increases His blessings in your life.



Sis , do u know how to offer istekhara salat ? Ask Allah for guidance through this salat and supplication before taking an important decision.

^ short, brief and up to the point. MashaAllah sis, may Allah preserve you!

for the thread starter. Keep in mind the future problems you may have with his wife, his family, and your family as well.....and in all cases, you will be the one who will got hurt most.

But above all pray Istikhara (a prayer to seek Allah's wisdom in something you are not sure about, InshaAllah Allah will guide you to the right choice)


May Allah grant you a happy life and chose the best for you sister

[cat eyes]

:sl:sis how löng have u been a revert? I think its clear you need to learn more about the deen and he is well aware you have very little knowlegde about anything. Its not the womans job to be supporting her husband even if she is rich and the guy has little money, the wife dont have to give a cent to him! The wives money is her own money. A decent man would not want that his wife to be supporting him as its not sunnah! Sis how would u feel everyday u going to work and then him sitting on his bum all day everyday? Sis that would be extremely annoying for any woman you dont realise it now but you will do! Then imagine when his family come over. I have a feeling hes totally taking advantage of the fact you have very little knowledge about anything! Temporary marriage has no part in sunni islam! It might be all a big game who knows people are hungry to get residence in usa. they wil go to extremes. Get a american woman pregnant or anything! Everybody wants to live in usa including myself lol look sis hes from iraq...do u realise how bad things are in iraq?? People would chop off there right arm 2 come to u.k or america! How do u know he is even talking with his wife bout the stuff he told u? They speak in a different language. Hes probably telling her i need to use ths american woman to get us all into the country get ur passport to sponsor them then wen his wife comes over get her pregnant b coz if they av a child in the usa they cant deport them they can be cum citizens! Sis its all a big game dnt fall 4 it. As i said everybody wants to live in america! The land of opportunities and niave women.

[cat eyes]

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Wait... actually that's exactly what I am saying. If you have love for this guy then forget income, forget all else, just wait and see if he chooses you.

Brother Ferown i do not accept ur apology! You straight forwardly called your sister in islam a gold digger! I have never came across such ignorance in my life since my time on this forum! Shame on you. Until you wil admit you were ignorant and you apologize properly only then will i accept it!! It was totally irrelivant for that nasty cold hearted remark!! Let me remind you this is a islamic forum.

[Hamza Asadullah]

Brother hamza 81 but there is a conditions to marry more women in the islam , you cannot marry a second wife as a virgin because you want to enjoy your self but the women you can marry like a widow or a poor divorced women with childrens kind of a women who need your help and support but not for enjoyment

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the Qur'an conditioned the permissibility of marrying more than one wife with justice and fair treatment. It is a grave sin to treat the wives unequally. Any man who wishes to take a second wife also has to meet the important condition of fair treatment of all his wives. The verse quoted above includes the command to treat wives equally, and anyone who is unable to do so should marry only one wife.

Equal treatment includes all social, economical and physical needs. It is very difficult for human beings to be completely fair, a fact which is recognised by the Qur'an:

'You are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: but turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air)... (Surah al-Nisa, 129).

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

'A man who marries more than one woman and then does not deal justly with them will be resurrected with half his faculties paralysed' (Sahih al-Bukhari).

However, this refers to aspects that are within the capacity of a man such as equal treatment with regards to social, economical and physical needs. As far as the inclination of the heart is concerned, then that is beyond the capacity of a man.

My sister there is no such condition that the women who is to be a second wife must not be a virgin. We should be very careful before making such false statements because we may mislead others.

As long as the man treats both wives equally,fairly and justly as is mentioned above then Islamically there are no restrictions on him especially not the one you mentioned.

[Danah]

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

Sorry sis I didn't notice this. He must be from Shi'a...Mut'ah marriage is not allowed at all cases.
Read the fatwa and the ruling of Mut'ah marriage sis, and be careful of this man if he is from Shia....May Allah protect you sis.


Read it here from Islamqac.com:
Mut’ah marriage and refutation of those Raafidis who permit it

Mut’ah marriage and ‘urfi marriage


Seems that you are a new revert dear, so you gotta read more about Shi'a and their belief I wish I can PM you but you are still a limited member and if you got my PM you will not be able to reply yet.

[MSalman]

As-Salamu Alaykum

sister, as few others have advised, please do istikhara and make dua'a and then do whatever your heart is settled with. Secondly, you should be consulting with your local Imam or someone knowledgeable about this issues because on forums you will mostly find young people with their hasty conclusions and fatawas from bunch of laypeople.

Allah's Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said: "Allah shall not take knowledge away from people's hearts forcefully. Knowledge will be taken away (i.e. dead) when scholars die so that when no scholar is left, people will take and look up to ignorants to ask for Fatwa. They will ask them and they will answer them with no knowledge resulting with misguidance for others besides their misguidance."

[AnonymousPoster]

Now I ain't sayin' she a gold digger...

Wait... actually that's exactly what I am saying.

I agree and it doesn't matter by what means.

[seekingsolace]

To answer a few questions that have come up in the replies:

No, he is not the reason I became a revert. My journey to Islam began ten years ago. A good friend and classmate from Kuwait shared his faith with me through many conversations while working in the lab. I had been an amateur student of early Christian history for most of my adult life, and was painfully aware of the discrepancies between the oldest manuscripts of the Bible. I could not believe that God would allow His Message to be corrupted for the rest of time without sending someone else to correct the mistakes. Then, over time, I realized that He had. :)

Back to the matter at hand - in his defense, he has never asked me for any financial support, and I have never offered. Yes, I could, but that doesn't mean I will. Of course I would never allow them to fall into misfortune. The only thing we have ever discussed that I volunteered to pay for was Hajj for both of us if we were married.

I have decided that he and I will remain friends only, and that when his wife comes I will try to be a good friend to her too inshallah. He has no other American born friends who can help her learn how to function in this culture. She is also Sunni, and will be surrounded by the Shi'a who make up the majority in our small community. I have told him that if they do not work out and if I am still single, I would consider permanent marriage to him when and only when his divorce is final with her.

I will hopefully be leaving this area in August inshallah to take a position with another facility that may be more accommodating in terms of hijab, prayer, etc. The new position is near Washington DC so perhaps there will be a brother there who would be a good match. The time between now and then will give me a chance to grow in knowledge of the deen.

Thank you all again for your wisdom!

[جوري]

I haven't followed the entire two pages here, but as it has unraveled in your first post in such a tangled way, I believe that the best thing to do is untangle yourself from it.. the more variables you have to complicate your life the more unhappy you'll be. And you should love yourself most of all if you are to share and give that love to others.

I am not even sure 'friendship' with his wife is possible at this stage, there will be culture shock and adaptation and personal convictions and baggage brought over that has nothing to do with the religion. I think it is best you walk away from this cold Turkey and have faith that Allah swt will grant you that which is better. I would take the timing of this event as a strong note that he is meant to be with his wife and daughter and you too are meant for something good that will not break your heart and afford you some mental stability. Don't sell yourself short because of emotions.. no matter the sort of emotions that they are whether it is sympathy or concern or love. They are a transference that is improperly placed at this stage and insha'Allah at the right time when meant to be you'll be with the one you are truly meant to be with..

I wish you the best insha'Allah and Eid mubarak

:w:

[Dagless]

hmm I already told you, it's not wise cos there's many other factors involved for example, another women, kids, permnant stay it's not as black and white as you make it out to be and the (prophet peace be upon him) told us the criterion of what to look for and he didn't say "if you love them forget everything else" as you say. And who gives better and more wiser advice than the prophet of Allah peace be upon him.

And just because you love some 1 it doesn't mean they're the right person for you, for example Muslim's fall in love with non muslims does that mean they should marry them??

women fall in love with abusive men does that mean they should marry them?

women fall in love with men who womanise does that mean they should marry them?

should she still marry him if he's after getting permanant stay in the USA?

according to your theory they should, cos as you said "if you have love for the guy then forget his income, forget all else just wait and see if he chooses you"

Love is an emotion that you feel towards a particular person, it doesn't guarantee that person is right for you, but if you follow the advice of the prophet (saw) and look for what he advised then inshallah you'll find a righteous partner who improves you in your religion and helps you to get to jannah.

as they say love is blind a person could be the worst person in the world for you but because of your love for them you don't see it till they hurt you.

And I know the girl has a good income I never said she never, I said you shouldn't criticize a person by calling them a gold digger because they look at man's income.

and my basis for saying this was the fact that Islam makes it a requirement on the man that he has the ability to provide food and clothing for his wife.

sorry if I hurt any egos when I was speaking of what the prophet peace be upon him and the religion of Islam advises.

And I apologize to the sis for taking her thread to another direction, if you would like to discuss further akhi pm me as it's not fair for the sis that her thread be hijacked like this.

I don't think its hijacking the thread if its directly related to the sisters question.

Firstly, what the prophet (pbuh) said is obviously best and most correct. There was no intention to dispute that in any way.

Your whole response can be condensed into "she may love him but sometimes we love things which are not good for us"... and that's fair enough, but in grey instances such as these we can only make that call in hindsight.

If she leaves him and marries someone else who can support her financially, but then a week later he loses his job, she will be in a comparable situation minus the love.

All my responses are based on the fact we don't find people we can love entirely for being them too often.

[Hamza Asadullah]

To answer a few questions that have come up in the replies:

No, he is not the reason I became a revert. My journey to Islam began ten years ago. A good friend and classmate from Kuwait shared his faith with me through many conversations while working in the lab. I had been an amateur student of early Christian history for most of my adult life, and was painfully aware of the discrepancies between the oldest manuscripts of the Bible. I could not believe that God would allow His Message to be corrupted for the rest of time without sending someone else to correct the mistakes. Then, over time, I realized that He had. :)

Back to the matter at hand - in his defense, he has never asked me for any financial support, and I have never offered. Yes, I could, but that doesn't mean I will. Of course I would never allow them to fall into misfortune. The only thing we have ever discussed that I volunteered to pay for was Hajj for both of us if we were married.

I have decided that he and I will remain friends only, and that when his wife comes I will try to be a good friend to her too inshallah. He has no other American born friends who can help her learn how to function in this culture. She is also Sunni, and will be surrounded by the Shi'a who make up the majority in our small community. I have told him that if they do not work out and if I am still single, I would consider permanent marriage to him when and only when his divorce is final with her.

I will hopefully be leaving this area in August inshallah to take a position with another facility that may be more accommodating in terms of hijab, prayer, etc. The new position is near Washington DC so perhaps there will be a brother there who would be a good match. The time between now and then will give me a chance to grow in knowledge of the deen.

Thank you all again for your wisdom!

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, my sister i think it is best that you cut off relations with him completly because as long as you are there then it will give him the excuse to treat his wife badly and he may not fulfill her rights. Leave him be and get on with your life. Also there is no such thing as freindship between a man and a women because a man and a women have been created to be attracted to each other and when a man and a women are together then shaythan is always third party.

My sister do not lose hope, you are a wonderful person who will make any Muslim man very happy and you should keep this in your head. Just because your not married yet and have'nt been with anyone for a few years it does'nt mean you should lose hope of finding the right person to marry.

My sister get involved with sisters groups, meetings,circles and go to sisters Islamic classes and learn learn learn as much as you can because knowledge is SO SO important because if we have little knolwedge then we will be susceptible and vulnerable to being misled.

My sister ALWAYS have FULL hope, faith, trust and reliance in Allah because if you do things the right way then he will find you the perfect partner for you inshallah who will lead you towards the right direction, not someone who is already married and gone behind his wifes back to get to know another women and is willing to ruin her life and hurt her and take her daughter away from her, just imagine if you were in his wifes position would you ever want to end up with someone like that? How do you know in a few years he won't get bored and do the same to you?

You will find the perfect person for you who wil lead you towards Jannah just do things the right way and have hope in Allah because out of EVERYONE he chose YOU and gave you imaan(faith) and he he does'nt give imaan to everyone, so you think he won't find you the perfect partner?

Sister i just wanted to refer you to a brilliant Islamic E book in PDF file format for you to download and save into your computer and print and it is PERFECT for reverts and also those of us who need to build the foundations of our knowledge of Islam and i would recommend all of us to read it.

Islam: Beliefs and Teachings

http://www.islamicbulletin.org/servi...ls.aspx?id=267

Then from there you can build your knolwedge but try your best to get a reliable Islamic sister as a teacher and join a group of sisters so that you can be with like minded sisters who will help you in your deen.

The best of luck with everything sister and please remember me in your dua's. Allah hafiz

[Ansariyah]

I just dont like it that he's decieving his wife saying stuff like 'i hope she starts hating the US and then she can leave'. Thats just cold n so insensitive.

Why can't he just be honest, it'll hurt but thats better than a lie...

I understand that u guys want to get married but in that sisters defence please consider her feelings n remember that she too deserves happiness...If that isnt wit him be honest wit her.

[Salahudeen]

I don't think its hijacking the thread if its directly related to the sisters question.

Firstly, what the prophet (pbuh) said is obviously best and most correct. There was no intention to dispute that in any way.

Your whole response can be condensed into "she may love him but sometimes we love things which are not good for us"... and that's fair enough, but in grey instances such as these we can only make that call in hindsight.

If she leaves him and marries someone else who can support her financially, but then a week later he loses his job, she will be in a comparable situation minus the love.

All my responses are based on the fact we don't find people we can love entirely for being them too often.

not strictly speaking, the situation could be very different in that the guy won't be married to another women and have kids from another women and lying aswell as deceiving another women. as the messenger of Allah said "whoever lies and cheats the people is not from among us" and that's exactly what he's doing with the other women lying, deceving and cheating her.

Who knows he may also be doing it with the sister who started the thread. your right it will be slightly comparable but she wouldn't be worrying about the fact that her husband is islamically married to another women. and may be deceiving her to get permnant stay for his self and islamically married wife and kids.

as a sister previously mentioned the fact that he's willing to let his wife and kids move all the way to USA and continue a haraam relationship with the thread starter isn't really a good sign of character.

it's really insensitive and put yourself in his wife's shoes, your moving to another country to be with ur husband and he's hoping you hate it and leave so he can carry on a relationship with another women. poor women, he doesn't exactly scream out honesty.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

if you aren't already married to him, please leave him. he seems to lack in character and honesty. is this what you want in a husband and marriage? go find yourself someone who deserves you. god knows what else he may be lying about :$

[جوري]

^^ agreed, I really didn't want to say those things that you have laid flat on the table, but how cruel is his version of the story toward his current wife and his daughter.. It isn't OK to to do that to your child even if you don't care for the feelings of her mother... A female child learns of men firstly from her father, so we not only have an absent father but one who wishes to two time the mother and conveniently have a brand new life.. well what about his wife, does she get a brand new life too or does she get to be discard as many women seem to be to some men?

Sob7an Allah

[cat eyes]

:sl: and you cant be friends with a married man! Its not islamic. How would his other wife feel?. Have you even thought about that? Sure anything could happen between you and him.... Its just morally not right. You are lowering yourself to his level maybe even lower. You would interfere with there marriage and just say if anything was to happen she'd bliame the fact that there was a woman in his life who he was not mean't 2 b even meeting and that woman will b you Allah will question you about it on the day of judgement and probably not punish the husband at all but punish you instead! Because friendship between male and female is haram and she already knows about u. I think things are not looking good sister. Look be wise. What i think you should do is repent for it all and leave this guy alone its not worth it. And im trying 2 find da best words to say it but fear Allah and the last day where we wil b questioned 4 everything we did in this dunya... You've been a muslimah for 10years now sister you should already know right from wrong. The wife whom is also ur sister would not deserve this!.

[glo]

Seekingsolace, that's a tricky situation you are in!
I can't help but wondering whether you made your decisions and choices with this man rather hastily ...

If it is only three months since you reverted to Islam, perhaps you should let yourself become more grounded in your new faith before you start making decisions about marriage.
Take one step at a time.

May God bless you and guide you. Salaam :)

[mariyyah]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. It is true that I don't care about the money issue. Allah has blessed me far beyond what I deserve, so my income is such that I could support all five of us if I needed to without problem.

I spoke with him about it today. We are going next Saturday morning to meet with an imam whom we both respect inshallah. I suspect he will say much the same as you have said and I have concluded, that this is generally a bad idea.

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

He spoke with her on the phone (finally) yesterday. He told her that when she gets here, she will need to go back to school so that she can get a good job. She currently works in the legal system there, but her credentials and her English skills are insufficient to get anything much above unskilled labor here. She was furious with him, and started shouting on the phone asking why should she come in the first place. She has a good job, a nice house, a nice car, and lots of family and friends in Iraq. Here she will have nothing but him, and if he has his way, only half of that.

(it does seem as though his family back home likes to shout at him a lot....LOL)

So he tells me he's not even sure she will really come, and if she does he doesn't think it will work. I am thinking now this second wife business is more of a ploy to keep me bound to him until the first wife decides what she will do.

I could not help but to ask him what would keep him from taking a secret second wife on me if we did have a single marriage down the road. He laughed, of course, and said that with me there would be no need.

Right.

So I think I'm going to let the imam be the one to tell him the bad news next weekend. I will not say that it will be easy for me to do. Having been alone for the past four years, the offer of any companionship is tempting especially with someone who is otherwise so compatible.

But maybe temptation is the key word here....

I think I'll wait for something more honest and correct, even if it means I have to wait the rest of my life. I don't have the beauty, but I do have the other three qualities. Maybe one day a good brother will decide three out of four is enough?

Sister i told you but you still you dont want to understand , hes using you and your money hes playing with you taking his time until his wife will come then he will say bye bye to you and Mutaa marriage is not allowed in the islam is haram and is an enjoyment marriage for a short time most of the shiaa people who believe it but not sunne people please call him now and say its over and its finish and INSHALLAH may ALLAH SWT send you a good brother who can marry you because doesnt matter beauty for a brother who is after the hereafter and ajeer
Comon brothers here is there anyone interesting to marry a new sister in the islam and INSHALLAH you will have ajeer because shes a good women shes after halal marriage

[BNDGR]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. It is true that I don't care about the money issue. Allah has blessed me far beyond what I deserve, so my income is such that I could support all five of us if I needed to without problem.

I spoke with him about it today. We are going next Saturday morning to meet with an imam whom we both respect inshallah. I suspect he will say much the same as you have said and I have concluded, that this is generally a bad idea.

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

He spoke with her on the phone (finally) yesterday. He told her that when she gets here, she will need to go back to school so that she can get a good job. She currently works in the legal system there, but her credentials and her English skills are insufficient to get anything much above unskilled labor here. She was furious with him, and started shouting on the phone asking why should she come in the first place. She has a good job, a nice house, a nice car, and lots of family and friends in Iraq. Here she will have nothing but him, and if he has his way, only half of that.

(it does seem as though his family back home likes to shout at him a lot....LOL)

So he tells me he's not even sure she will really come, and if she does he doesn't think it will work. I am thinking now this second wife business is more of a ploy to keep me bound to him until the first wife decides what she will do.

I could not help but to ask him what would keep him from taking a secret second wife on me if we did have a single marriage down the road. He laughed, of course, and said that with me there would be no need.

Right.

So I think I'm going to let the imam be the one to tell him the bad news next weekend. I will not say that it will be easy for me to do. Having been alone for the past four years, the offer of any companionship is tempting especially with someone who is otherwise so compatible.

But maybe temptation is the key word here....

I think I'll wait for something more honest and correct, even if it means I have to wait the rest of my life. I don't have the beauty, but I do have the other three qualities. Maybe one day a good brother will decide three out of four is enough?

Mashallah you are so strong sis! I'm a fairly new Muslim also and your story was close to a lot of stories I'm hearing happening with new sisters. May Allah swt give you strength and inshallah bless you with a pious true and loving husband.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I told him this today, and he offered another suggestion. He suggested that we enter into a mut'ah for six months to see how it goes when she gets here. All of the "fun" and none of the commitment - how does that make it any better?

it doesn't. what is in this for you? seriously?
all the best :)

[UmmSqueakster]

One thing to think about - he's sneaking around behind his wife's back and chatting with women. Who's to say he wouldn't do the same to you? How would you feel if you found out he had wife #3 or 4 on the down low?

[Salahudeen]

an a man marry a second time without the first wife having to know about the second wife the man is not getting along with his wife but has a child with her he does not want the first wife to know because he believes the wife would take the child away from him he doesnt want the childs life disrupted and believes she will not allow him to marry again
25/11/2009

Answer:

Assalamu alaikum

Many thanks for this question. First, we need to understand the concept of second marriage in Islam, which is misconceived by majority of Muslims and paved the way for Islam to be defamed. In Islam, the second marriage is entirely based on certain conditions which must be fulfilled. Justice, (fair dealing with all wives) and provide all financial requirements. This is from the condition of every marriage whether it is first or second, to publicise it among the people. Islam does not accept any kind of deception. Most of the Muslims do second nikah either for their love or bad relation with their first wife and thus disregard the basic conditions of Shariah which resulted in so many problems. In your case, we may find the same nature and you are now in a difficulty. To me the best way is that you should try to let your first wife know about this situation by involving some of your elders and ulama close to your family. I know, you can't hide it from her for ever. If she know by herself, that would be more serious and chaos for you in your family. I make dua for you.

Wassalam

[mammyluty]

hey evryone is forgeting the most important victim here,and that is the daughter.hes planning to take the daughter away from the mother,,,thats haram haram haram because that will hurt the mother and it will affect the girl big time.the evidence is in the book of ibn kathir volume one.how will u sisters feel if ur husbands was planning a scheme to take ur children away from through divorce.what if the girl ends up hating the step mother....will the man abandon the daughter to be wth u just because he loves u?i feel very sory for the the wife n mostly the girl.i was taken away from my mother when i was 5 yrs old wth my dads family because my mother was a revert at that time n now am wth my mum but we r like strangers.sister even if ul end up marrying him but never let him take the girl away from her mother.put urself in her shoes.its obvious his intentions r fishy.

Allah is just n he answers the dua of the oppresed!

[Hamza Asadullah]

hey evryone is forgeting the most important victim here,and that is the daughter.hes planning to take the daughter away from the mother,,,thats haram haram haram because that will hurt the mother and it will affect the girl big time.the evidence is in the book of ibn kathir volume one.how will u sisters feel if ur husbands was planning a scheme to take ur children away from through divorce.what if the girl ends up hating the step mother....will the man abandon the daughter to be wth u just because he loves u?i feel very sory for the the wife n mostly the girl.i was taken away from my mother when i was 5 yrs old wth my dads family because my mother was a revert at that time n now am wth my mum but we r like strangers.sister even if ul end up marrying him but never let him take the girl away from her mother.put urself in her shoes.its obvious his intentions r fishy.

Allah is just n he answers the dua of the oppresed!

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, we all agree that the sister should not pursue marriage with this man any longer. However we should all be aware of what Islam says on what should happen to children after a divorce for our own knowledge aswell as conveying to others if they don't know:

If and when a marriage unfortunately comes to an end, the problems of the parties involved should not in any way affect the children. Children are a trust (amanah) from Allah and they should be treated and looked after in a proper manner.

They have many rights, of which two are of utmost importance: to receive proper care and love, and the other proper upbringing (tarbiyah). Theses rights of a child can not be fulfilled except with the joint endeavour of the parents. The love, care and attention of the mother is just as important as the upbringing and training of the farther.

In light of the above, divorce should definitely be avoided as much as possible, especially in the case where children are involved. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“Divorce is the most hated of all lawful (halal) things in the sight of Allah” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2178).

However, if divorce did take place, and both parties demand their rights, then the right of custody will be in the following way. In should be remembered here that there is nothing wrong in making a mutual arrangement, as long as there is no objection from those who have a right to custody.

The mother has a right of custody for a male child until the child is capable of taking care of his own basic bodily functions and needs, such as eating, dressing and cleaning himself. This has been recognized at seven years of age.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“The custody of a male child is the right of the mother until the child is capable of taking care of his own self. This has been approximated at seven years of age, and the Fatwa (legal verdict) has been issued on this age, as normally children are able to take care of themselves at this age” (See: Radd al-Muhtar, 3/566).

In the case of a female, the mother has this right of custody until she reaches puberty. This has been declared at nine years of age. (al-Mawsili, al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-mukhatr, 3/237).

The right of custody will be taken away from the mother if she:

1) Leaves Islam

2) Openly indulges in sins such as adultery and there is a fear of the child being affected

3) She does not attend to the child due to her leaving the house very often

4) She marries a non-relative (stranger) to the child by which the child may be affected

5) She demands payment for the upbringing of the child if there is another woman to raise the child without remuneration

In the above cases (when the mother no longer has the right to custody), this right then transfers to the following in order:

a) Maternal grandmother, and on up;

b) Paternal grandmother, and on up;

c) Full sisters

d) Maternal half sisters

e) Paternal half sisters

f) Maternal aunts

g) Paternal aunts

After all the avenues of the female have been exhausted as explained by the Jurists, the males have the right of custody in the following sequence:

a) Father

b) Paternal grandfather

c) Real brother

d) Paternal brother

e) Maternal brother

The reason for this is that, in the early years, the mother and the other female relatives are more suitable for raising the young child (regardless of sex) with love, mercy, attention, and motherly care. The male child after reaching the age of understanding (7) is in need of education and acquiring masculine traits, which is why he is then transferred to the farther. The female child, after reaching the age of understanding is in need of being inculcated with female traits, which she receives by living with her mother. After reaching puberty, she is in need of protection which the farther offers.

In a Hadith recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his Sunan, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to a woman who complained that her husband was intending to take her child away from her: “You are more rightful of the child as long as you don’t marry” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2276 & Mustadrak al-Hakim, 2/207).

It should also be remembered that after the transferral of custody from the mother to the farther, the boy remains in the custody of the farther until puberty, at which point, if he is mature and wise, he is free to choose with whom to live, or to live on his own. As for the girl, custody remains with the farther until she marries (See: Qadri pasha, Hanafi articles, 498 & 499).

Irrespective of who (mother/father) has the rights of custody, the other party has visitation rights according to mutual understanding and consent. Generally, the party having the rights of custody uses the child as a weapon to punish the other party by depriving them of visitation rights. This is totally against the concept of Islam and a grave sin. It is also very harmful to the child.

At all times the father of the child is responsible for maintaining the child; in the case of a female, until she marries; while in the case of a healthy male, until he reaches maturity. In the case of a disabled child (male or female) the father is permanently responsible.


When the mother has the rights of custody but does not have a shelter to stay in with the child, the father must provide shelter for both. (See Radd al-Muhtar of Ibn Abidin).

With the above, I hope all your questions have been answered.

And Allah Knows Best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

[mammyluty]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, we all agree that the sister should not pursue marriage with this man any longer. However we should all be aware of what Islam says on what should happen to children after a divorce for our own knowledge aswell as conveying to others if they don't know:

If and when a marriage unfortunately comes to an end, the problems of the parties involved should not in any way affect the children. Children are a trust (amanah) from Allah and they should be treated and looked after in a proper manner.

They have many rights, of which two are of utmost importance: to receive proper care and love, and the other proper upbringing (tarbiyah). Theses rights of a child can not be fulfilled except with the joint endeavour of the parents. The love, care and attention of the mother is just as important as the upbringing and training of the farther.

In light of the above, divorce should definitely be avoided as much as possible, especially in the case where children are involved. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:

“Divorce is the most hated of all lawful (halal) things in the sight of Allah” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2178).

However, if divorce did take place, and both parties demand their rights, then the right of custody will be in the following way. In should be remembered here that there is nothing wrong in making a mutual arrangement, as long as there is no objection from those who have a right to custody.

The mother has a right of custody for a male child until the child is capable of taking care of his own basic bodily functions and needs, such as eating, dressing and cleaning himself. This has been recognized at seven years of age.

Imam al-Haskafi (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“The custody of a male child is the right of the mother until the child is capable of taking care of his own self. This has been approximated at seven years of age, and the Fatwa (legal verdict) has been issued on this age, as normally children are able to take care of themselves at this age” (See: Radd al-Muhtar, 3/566).

In the case of a female, the mother has this right of custody until she reaches puberty. This has been declared at nine years of age. (al-Mawsili, al-Ikhtiyar li ta’lil al-mukhatr, 3/237).

The right of custody will be taken away from the mother if she:

1) Leaves Islam

2) Openly indulges in sins such as adultery and there is a fear of the child being affected

3) She does not attend to the child due to her leaving the house very often

4) She marries a non-relative (stranger) to the child by which the child may be affected

5) She demands payment for the upbringing of the child if there is another woman to raise the child without remuneration

In the above cases (when the mother no longer has the right to custody), this right then transfers to the following in order:

a) Maternal grandmother, and on up;

b) Paternal grandmother, and on up;

c) Full sisters

d) Maternal half sisters

e) Paternal half sisters

f) Maternal aunts

g) Paternal aunts

After all the avenues of the female have been exhausted as explained by the Jurists, the males have the right of custody in the following sequence:

a) Father

b) Paternal grandfather

c) Real brother

d) Paternal brother

e) Maternal brother

The reason for this is that, in the early years, the mother and the other female relatives are more suitable for raising the young child (regardless of sex) with love, mercy, attention, and motherly care. The male child after reaching the age of understanding (7) is in need of education and acquiring masculine traits, which is why he is then transferred to the farther. The female child, after reaching the age of understanding is in need of being inculcated with female traits, which she receives by living with her mother. After reaching puberty, she is in need of protection which the farther offers.

In a Hadith recorded by Imam Abu Dawud in his Sunan, the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said to a woman who complained that her husband was intending to take her child away from her: “You are more rightful of the child as long as you don’t marry” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 2276 & Mustadrak al-Hakim, 2/207).

It should also be remembered that after the transferral of custody from the mother to the farther, the boy remains in the custody of the farther until puberty, at which point, if he is mature and wise, he is free to choose with whom to live, or to live on his own. As for the girl, custody remains with the farther until she marries (See: Qadri pasha, Hanafi articles, 498 & 499).

Irrespective of who (mother/father) has the rights of custody, the other party has visitation rights according to mutual understanding and consent. Generally, the party having the rights of custody uses the child as a weapon to punish the other party by depriving them of visitation rights. This is totally against the concept of Islam and a grave sin. It is also very harmful to the child.

At all times the father of the child is responsible for maintaining the child; in the case of a female, until she marries; while in the case of a healthy male, until he reaches maturity. In the case of a disabled child (male or female) the father is permanently responsible.


When the mother has the rights of custody but does not have a shelter to stay in with the child, the father must provide shelter for both. (See Radd al-Muhtar of Ibn Abidin).

With the above, I hope all your questions have been answered.

And Allah Knows Best
Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester, UK

sory i dont know how to qoute a parragraph only but the above hadith that says about a woman who went to the prophet peace be upon him.so when a woman with children gets divorced n remaries to another man,should she hand over the kids to the ex husband[thier father]?
n if theres divorce n the woman does not hand over the child when he or she is the right age according to the shariah,is she sinning?cos all the divorced women i know none of them dared to give away thier children to their fathers.

shukran for the knowledge u shared i didnt know all these.

[OurIslamic]

Make du'a to Allah(SWT).

You can't become a second wife if you aren't treated equally, and it would be haram to keep it a secret from his first wife.

[Hamza Asadullah]

sory i dont know how to qoute a parragraph only but the above hadith that says about a woman who went to the prophet peace be upon him.so when a woman with children gets divorced n remaries to another man,should she hand over the kids to the ex husband[thier father]?
n if theres divorce n the woman does not hand over the child when he or she is the right age according to the shariah,is she sinning?cos all the divorced women i know none of them dared to give away thier children to their fathers.

shukran for the knowledge u shared i didnt know all these.

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse cases resulting from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

[Donia]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

Salaamu alaikum.
Thank you for the information and most of it does make sense..
However, do the same stipulations apply to the father not being able to have custody (when he should normally be able to) as to the mother as far as if he leaves islam.. and so on.. That list that you put up. Does it apply to the father as well?
If I understood correctly, that means that if a woman wants to keep her children with her, she cannot remarry...
Did I misunderstand?
JazakAllah.

[جوري]

I too would like evidence of the above.. I haven't heard of these custodial laws before and would like some ahadith and scholarly reviews insha'Allah

:wa:

[cat eyes]

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, the boy has to be raised up by the father until puberty anyway because of the fact that he needs to have instilled in him masculine traits and then when he reaches puberty he can choose who to live with either the mother or the father.

If the mother re-marries then the daughter cannot stay with her as the mothers new husband will not be her mahram for he will be a strange man to her and many a time there have been sexual abuse from the new marriage partner of the mother because there is no connection between the father and mother and so he will be a strange man to the daughter. So it is the fathers responsibility to look after the daughter until she marries.

Regardless of who keeps who both parents have visitation rights of children and this can be done on mutual grounds or by the courts.

:sl: ya this certainly dose make sense to me ive heard of a story where the step father slept with the daughter she was only like 15 or something and they ran off together+o(

[Hamza Asadullah]

Salaamu alaikum.
Thank you for the information and most of it does make sense..
However, do the same stipulations apply to the father not being able to have custody (when he should normally be able to) as to the mother as far as if he leaves islam.. and so on.. That list that you put up. Does it apply to the father as well?
If I understood correctly, that means that if a woman wants to keep her children with her, she cannot remarry...
Did I misunderstand?
JazakAllah.

Yes of course the father has to remain Muslim but if not then he cannot have custody of the children as they will need an Islamic upbringing.

The women may have the boy after he goes through puberty or after 7 years of age as he needs a fatherly and masculine upbringing and then he may choose whether to live with his mother or remain with the father.

The women cannot re-marry if she wants to keep her daughter or she could wait until her daughter is married because of the fact that her husband would not be the mahram of her new partner and he would be a stranger to her. Also in most cases the new partner would not treat the children as his own and therefore will not give them the proper love they require.

[Donia]

Thank you for your response.

As far as a mother not being able to keep her daughter/s if she should remarry.
I am confused.

I understand the stepfather would not be a mahram to the daughters BUT...
I thought if the mother marries somebody, then her daughters become impermissible to her new husband for marriage.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Of course we have heard the sick stories of men abusing their situation.. Adhubillah.. but there are also stories of men who step in and raise the children right and are good men alhumdulillah..
So if the father or mother has left Islam, these custody arrangements do not apply to them?
I just don't see a mother easily giving up her child...