PDA

View Full Version : Islam and an egalitarian society



shockOFthunder
12-02-2009, 09:53 PM
I find today that in our capitalist society, we already see signs of inequality.

Folks are hauled away for not paying their credit card bills, but these big CEO bigshots can take hundreds of billions of taxpayer money and hand out bonuses left right and center and face no punishment for it.

My interpretation of the Quran is that it IS, somewhat, ideoligically compatible with socialism and communism on the grounds of complete egalitarianism - an equal and just society ('To each his own abilities, and to each his own needs".)
What is your interpretation based on this?

Islamic finance seems to leave very little room for capitalist exploitation, I find.

Of course they differ somewhat, but do you think Islam, communism and socialism are quite similar to each other?

I would also like verses from the Quran to support egalitarianism please.

I, for one, am glad I realized this and this draws me further to conversion. I've always thought about the benefits of living in a classless, equal, egalitarian and fair, non exploitative society.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Amadeus85
12-02-2009, 10:28 PM
[QUOTE=shockOFthunder;1254268]
I find today that in our capitalist society, we already see signs of inequality.
God created us unequal. Someone is taller, someone is smarter, other one is red-haired with freckles. We are all different.


My interpretation of the Quran is that it IS, somewhat, ideoligically compatible with socialism and communism on the grounds of complete egalitarianism - an equal and just society ('To each his own abilities, and to each his own needs".)
What is your interpretation based on this?
You shouldn't compare religion islam with murderous doctrine of communism and with failed doctrine of socialism.

Capitalism isnt fair, but it seems to be one of the least bad economy system.

Of course they differ somewhat, but do you think Islam, communism and socialism are quite similar to each other?
That's a blasphemy.

I, for one, am glad I realized this and this draws me further to conversion. I've always thought about the benefits of living in a classless, equal, egalitarian and fair, non exploitative society.
Is it worth to kill for creating such society?
Reply

Karl
12-02-2009, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by shockOFthunder
I find today that in our capitalist society, we already see signs of inequality.

Folks are hauled away for not paying their credit card bills, but these big CEO bigshots can take hundreds of billions of taxpayer money and hand out bonuses left right and center and face no punishment for it.

My interpretation of the Quran is that it IS, somewhat, ideoligically compatible with socialism and communism on the grounds of complete egalitarianism - an equal and just society ('To each his own abilities, and to each his own needs".)
What is your interpretation based on this?

Islamic finance seems to leave very little room for capitalist exploitation, I find.

Of course they differ somewhat, but do you think Islam, communism and socialism are quite similar to each other?

I would also like verses from the Quran to support egalitarianism please.

I, for one, am glad I realized this and this draws me further to conversion. I've always thought about the benefits of living in a classless, equal, egalitarian and fair, non exploitative society.
Sorry Islam is the opposite of socialism it works on a Monachist system. Allah at the top, overlord of Heaven and Earth and everything. Leaders on Earth and people fitting into their stations as their skills and wit requires and slaves at the bottom. With the Quran being a kind of Constitution of the will of Allah.
Very similar to pre democracy Christiandom which used the Bible as it's guide,
politically speaking. Islam believes in private property and trade. But since Allah is the giver of all things a little social welfare tax or zakat is given to the poor similar to alms that Christians gave out on Sundays. That's as socialist as it gets and it is no where near communism.
Reply

shockOFthunder
12-02-2009, 11:52 PM
[QUOTE=Amadeus85;1254282]
Originally Posted by shockOFthunder

God created us unequal. Someone is taller, someone is smarter, other one is red-haired with freckles. We are all different.




You shouldn't compare religion islam with murderous doctrine of communism and with failed doctrine of socialism.

Capitalism isnt fair, but it seems to be one of the least bad economy system.



That's a blasphemy.



Is it worth to kill for creating such society?
I know we're physically as different as human beings. Of course we are.

I don't think you're fully qualified to answer this question, as I asked MUSLIMS based on their INTERPRETATION of the Quran if they agreed with what I said, and verses to go along with it.

I'm also not speaking in "blasphemy" terms, even though you didn't say exactly how I committed "blasphemy", although it doesn't bother me one bit.

You don't have to kill to create such a society. I guess you've let everything you've seen in the American media dictate your views about what communism/socialism really are. You probably have the images of Stalin and Mao stuck in your head. Class struggle and a peaceful revolution and replacement of the system can also happen, no violence included.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
mahi
12-03-2009, 12:25 AM
I don't think Islam really classifies as a system being near to communism or socialism, I think its more its own system.

Communism itself is a good idea and I did like it, I haven't given it much thought really but its more a system that wouldn't work very well. It would have to have a mix of capitalism to survive, and from that it wouldn't really by communism.

My interpretation on the system in Islam is that trading and such is fine, but exploitation isn't. I think that's one of the reasons why giving charity is an obligation, a great dead, and a pillar of Islam and so following Islam would mean that one can work earn large amounts but at the same time has to give even more with the more they earn. And the basic principles of Islam I'm sure would stop anyone from being overy rich and without giving thought to others. But yes, like you do mention it is somewhat comparable, but has its own system, and a common example is that interest is haraam as its made without the person actually doing anything.

A quote from the Qu'ran:

Allah says: {O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribâ (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers{} And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allâh and His Messenger[] but if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. Deal not unjustly (by asking more than your capital sums), and you shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than your capital sums)} [2:277, 278]

And just some other qoutes from hadeeth (saying of the prophet peace be upon him):

"A Muslim who plants a tree or sows a field, from which man, birds and animals can eat, is committing an act of charity." (Muslim)

"A man from those who were before you was brought to account and no goodness was found in him, except that he was a man who used to mix with people; he was rich, and he used to order his employees to let off the ones who was in difficulty. Allah said: 'We Should be even more tolerant that him, so let him off.'"

"Charity does not decrease wealth..."

"Do you know what is better than charity and fasting and prayer? It is keeping peace and good relations between people, as quarrels and bad feelings destroy mankind." (Muslims & Bukhari)

"May Allah have mercy on the tolerant man, when he buys, when he sells, and when he demands payment" (Bukhari)

Of course my post is heavily positive about Islam, but yeah.
Reply

shockOFthunder
12-03-2009, 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by mahi
I don't think Islam really classifies as a system being near to communism or socialism, I think its more its own system.

Communism itself is a good idea and I did like it, I haven't given it much thought really but its more a system that wouldn't work very well. It would have to have a mix of capitalism to survive, and from that it wouldn't really by communism.

My interpretation on the system in Islam is that trading and such is fine, but exploitation isn't. I think that's one of the reasons why giving charity is an obligation, a great dead, and a pillar of Islam and so following Islam would mean that one can work earn large amounts but at the same time has to give even more with the more they earn. And the basic principles of Islam I'm sure would stop anyone from being overy rich and without giving thought to others. But yes, like you do mention it is somewhat comparable, but has its own system, and a common example is that interest is haraam as its made without the person actually doing anything.

A quote from the Qu'ran:

Allah says: {O you who believe! Be afraid of Allâh and give up what remains (due to you) from Ribâ (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers{} And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allâh and His Messenger[] but if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. Deal not unjustly (by asking more than your capital sums), and you shall not be dealt with unjustly (by receiving less than your capital sums)} [2:277, 278]

And just some other qoutes from hadeeth (saying of the prophet peace be upon him):

"A Muslim who plants a tree or sows a field, from which man, birds and animals can eat, is committing an act of charity." (Muslim)

"A man from those who were before you was brought to account and no goodness was found in him, except that he was a man who used to mix with people; he was rich, and he used to order his employees to let off the ones who was in difficulty. Allah said: 'We Should be even more tolerant that him, so let him off.'"

"Charity does not decrease wealth..."

"Do you know what is better than charity and fasting and prayer? It is keeping peace and good relations between people, as quarrels and bad feelings destroy mankind." (Muslims & Bukhari)

"May Allah have mercy on the tolerant man, when he buys, when he sells, and when he demands payment" (Bukhari)

Of course my post is heavily positive about Islam, but yeah.
It could work, but the leader of the state would have to be a little more wealthy in order to successfully run that state.

Just like I've seen people refer to, as in Islam, the ruler of the state would in essence be a small step above everybody else.

Communism does not mean no democracy, mass genocide and gulag camps.

Just like Islam, there can be very different interpretations or applications of it.

I think a communist-egalitarian like system will flourish when the real space age begins, hopefully sometime in this century.
Reply

mahi
12-03-2009, 12:41 AM
Sorry, I just looked up what egalitarian means. I too like communism for its principles of equality especially in economy. I haven't studied this at all, but I doubt it would work, because a communist society one would assume wouldn't have such a great economic input/output and so the country wouldn't prosper as well, unless the people were really nice and worked hard even though they'd be on equal terms with everyone. And there's enforcing communism, as you'll have those who'll exploit it.

As for Islam and communism, hopefully my interpretation was any good, that Islam is it's own system that I think may work better but still with good principles and intentions.

And the space age, that's an interesting idea. I've never actually discussed the space age with anyone. It would be pretty cool if it was this century. But would equality flourish? I would've have thought that was more star wars ish when things go great till the bad guys pop up, but in real life the bad guys are always present and a space age I'd say would only bring about even greater greed
Reply

جوري
10-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Amadeus85
God created us unequal. Someone is taller, someone is smarter, other one is red-haired with freckles. We are all different.
No, God created us equal, but equality doesn't mean sameness nor mirror imaging of one another!
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-21-2013, 09:59 PM
  2. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-04-2012, 03:15 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-26-2010, 01:30 PM
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: 05-16-2008, 06:44 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-10-2005, 11:34 AM

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!