Wife going to put christmas tree

[markislam]

my wife is going to put christmas tree today in the house.

i told her no dont do that.

she is not listening

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew

dont understand what to do imsad

[Hamza Asadullah]

my wife is going to put christmas tree today in the house.

i told her no dont do that.

she is not listening

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew

dont understand what to do imsad

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb my brother jazakallah for sharing this with us. May I ask is your wife Muslim?

[Trumble]

dont understand what to do imsad

Perhaps she's not the only one 'not listening'? Just a thought.

[جوري]

I am sure there is more than one way you can ruin 'Christmas' for her if you wanted!


:wa:

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[markislam]

yes she is a christian and i am new revert to islam

[Donia]

I understand your concern about this situation.
I think you should listen to the scholars and imams you consulted. Have patience. You are a new revert and your wife is still a Christian. These are her actions, not yours. I'm sure you have told her that you don't approve and you can even explain why in a gentle way of course. Just my humble opinion.
Salaamu Alaikum.

[markislam]

yes that is what iam doing.

so she finally put it up with lights on it :nervous:

[- IqRa -]

It's a tree, don't worry about it :-)

[Fטлку]

Don't worry. You can still totally wreck Christmas for her.

[Khaldun]

:sl:

Easy people, why wreck christmas? That is not a nice thing to do.

Rather take this chance and try and sit her down, talk to her why do we real celebrate christmas? Is it for the presents? The food? Or the birth of Christ? Who is Christ? What was his message that he brought? Does she really believe in Christ being son of God? That he then died on the cross? Take this opportunity and open a dialogue no need to burn down the christmas tree.

[Fטлку]

Easy people, why wreck christmas? That is not a nice thing to do.

But nobody's supporting him :?

[UmmSqueakster]

Um, yeah sure this is the perfect way to show someone islam imsad You married a christian. She gets to celebrate christmas. How on earth can you expect her to give everything up because YOU changed religions? Make her life easy for her, allow her to practice her religion (which is her right), show her love and kindness and inshaAllah Allah (swt) will open her heart to islam.

[julie sarri]

Dose she go to her family for Christmas if she has her family say to her she can enjoy the Xmas Dec's around their house.Give her time you are a new revert to Islam yourself the more time she sees you practing then the more she will get used to it and understand why some things are not aloud in Islam and InshaAllah she will come round to your way of thinking

[Trumble]

I am sure there is more than one way you can ruin 'Christmas' for her if you wanted!

Don't worry. You can still totally wreck Christmas for her.

What a charming pair you are.

[جوري]

What a charming pair you are.

It is a matter of what one can tolerate!.. I wouldn't want someone putting a tree in my house to represent the birth of his/her southwest Asian god anymore than a christian would put up a wicker man to celebrate the pagan god of the sun

food for thought!

all the best

[Hamza Asadullah]

yes she is a christian and i am new revert to islam

Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, Since you have just reverted recently you can't expect her to not celebrate what she has been celebrating all of her life and what she sees as the celebration of the birth of Christ. But what you can do is to talk to her about Islam in a beautiful and gentle manner using wisdom. Pick a right time when your together and tell her about the truth and reality of Christmas. This should help:

The Christmas season has been aggressively promoted in every aspect of business, in schools, in every public place. High pressure sales tactics have invaded the home through television, radio, magazine and newspaper, captivating the imagination with every kind of attraction day and night for a month or more every year. Little wonder that many of those thus targeted so persistently succumb to temptation. Among earlier generations, Christmas was an occasion which was still basically religious in orientation. Gifts, trees, decorations and feasting assumed lesser roles. But now all of this has changed. As noted in an American publication, Christmas has gone the way of many other aspects of society, becoming one more element in the mass culture which every season enables manufacturers and merchants to make millions of dollars through an elaborate system of gift exchange which comes more often from mutual expectations that "must" be fulfilled than from the heart. The commonly accepted notion that happiness is derived largely from possessions and entertainment is the driving force behind the month-long preparations and festivities which continue on through the end of the year. This fact, although blameworthy in itself, has led many Muslims into the delusion that Christmas is no longer a religious occasion and therefore does not conflict with Islamic belief.

The materialistic atmosphere surrounding the celebration of Christmas is, in reality, a manifestation of pagan culture at its worst. It can only be seen by the conscious Muslim believer as a rat-race designed and implemented by Shaytaan to accomplish a great waste of time, effort, money and resources while countless families barely subsist in a state of poverty throughout many areas of the world. In addition to the commercial side of Christmas, although less obvious to the casual observer, are certain religious aspects to be noted. The celebration was and still is intended by practising Christians as a remembrance of the birth of Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) who is considered by many of them as God incarnate or the second person in a trinity, and thus they celebrate the birth of "divinity." The word itself is an abbreviated form of "Christ Mass," i.e., sacrament in commemoration of Christ. Although taken by Christians to be the birthday of Jesus, the actual date of celebration, December 25th, cannot be traced back any further than the fourth century after Christ. Ironically, this day is also considered to be the birthday of the Hindu god, Krishna, as well as Mithra, the Greek god of light. It also coincides with the annual Tree Festival which had long been celebrated in Northern Europe before the Christian era and which has been recently revived in some Arab countries in an attempt to encourage celebration by disguising the religious significance of the day.

The Christmas tree is the most obvious aspect of that pagan celebration which was incorporated along with its date of observance, December 25th, into church rites. The evergreen tree, because it keeps its green needles throughout the winter months, was believed by pre-Christian pagans to have special powers of protection against the forces of nature and evil spirits. The end of December marked the onset of a visible lengthening of daylight hours - the return of warmth and light and defeat of those evil forces of cold and darkness. At a particular stage of its development, the church is known to have adopted certain of the popular pagan practices into Christianity for political or social reasons.

Thus, in more aspects than one, the holiday is deeply rooted in the worship of different forms of creation rather than the Creator Himself.

This should make her realise the truth and reality of Christmas. Also make her realise that ALL the prophets and messengers sent by God came with the same messege and that is to establish the oneness of God and that includes Jesus who was a revered Prophet of Allah who came to re-establish the old testament given to Moses not to abrogate or change it like Paul the apostle did.

It is satan that has from the beginning of creation wanted to lead man astray and his biggest achievement in doing this was was to make man worship other than God and to ascribe partners to him.

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus attribute himself to God but his words and teachings have been distorted and intepreted in such a way as to make a man of God to become a God himself.

The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ:


"My Father is greater than I." [The Bible, John 14:28]

"My Father is greater than all." [The Bible, John 10:29]

"…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…." [The Bible, Mathew 12:28]

"…I with the finger of God cast out devils…." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." [The Bible, John 5:30]

Here are some very useful links to read more about the real truth and realities of Christianity:

http://www.ilovezakirnaik.com/muhamm...ised/index.htm

I've also pasted the link "Very Useful Threads For Those Looking Into Islam" which includes various very interesting and thought provoking articles on various aspects of Islam which will be very useful for you to use or to forward to your partner at some point so that she can find out more about the truth of Islam.

Allah has told us to invite others in the most beautiful of manners and also in a gentle manner especially to ones partner but remember that we are only informers and Allah is the guide, so you can only do the best you can and leave the rest to Allah but never stop showing her the beauty of Islam and the best way to invite someone towards Islam is to show the best of manners and behaviour.

Here are the various links:

How The Bible Led Me To Islam Recommended

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...-me-islam.html

Very Useful Threads For Those Looking Into Islam, Some Amazing threads for those looking into Islam!!!

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...nto-islam.html

Brilliant "proof Of Islam" Lectures By Abdul Rahman Green

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover...man-green.html

ISLAM IS THE TRUTH - Older Manuscripts found in Palestine says that Jesus Christ (A) is NOT a God!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flafC8VDhms

See why they converted to Islam:

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?t=44218

[Trumble]

It is a matter of what one can tolerate!.. I wouldn't want someone putting a tree in my house to represent the birth of his/her southwest Asian god anymore than a christian would put up a wicker man to celebrate the pagan god of the sun

"Food for thought?" Here's some.

I'm sure you wouldn't want that, but in this instance it seems a reasonable assumption it's just as much her house as his. And, as has been said, it wasn't her who just changed religion!

And you seem to think she should 'tolerate' being denied the chance to celebrate her most important religious holiday? 'Tolerate' having that holiday deliberately sabotaged?! By her husband!!! Were he to follow that advice, the one thing she should refuse to tolerate is having the idiot living in the same house.

It's a bl**dy tree, Markislam. Show some respect and tolerance for your wife (who I suspect you are deeply unworthy of), ignore the gruesome twosome of harpies in this thread, and deal with it. I'm sure those scholars and Imams have far more important things to do than listen to your whining.

[Donia]

yes that is what iam doing.

so she finally put it up with lights on it :nervous:

Good..
Try not to be to concerned. She is still a Christian after all. I think you have been given some good advice from other members as far as having a talk about the origin of Christmas and all. Try not to have any unreal expectations.. Be patient with your wife and may Allah guide her. Ameen.

[جوري]

"Food for thought?" Here's some.

I'm sure you wouldn't want that, but in this instance it seems a reasonable assumption it's just as much her house as his. And, as has been said, it wasn't her who just changed religion!

That highly depends on who is supporting the family and is the head of it.. marriage vows indeed should account for something..
and I believe those should include if one is debilitated, poor or decides that the birth of a west Asian god is by way of a pagan practice!

And you seem to think she should 'tolerate' being denied the chance to celebrate her most important religious holiday? 'Tolerate' having that holiday deliberately sabotaged?! By her husband!!! Were he to follow that advice, the one thing she should refuse to tolerate is having the idiot living in the same house.

You mistake this holiday for one having religious significance which it doesn't!
certainly if said holiday had some semblance of 'religious reverence' in it, no one would mind its observance. We certainly share a day of fast with the Jews. however celebrating the birth or death of god and lying to kids about creepy old men in red suits doesn't Constitute an 'important religious holiday'!

Far be it from me to tell him which direction to take this marriage but a candid discussion is paramount, if nothing else for the sake of the children.


all the best

[cat eyes]

:sl: i don't know brother how can i help you on this one as far as my knowledge goes as long as she is not stopping you from your duties as a muslim like praying etc then you should not interfere with what your wife wants to do. i mean i doubt you can stop her that would cause alot of upset and trouble that your daughter dose not need to listen to.

[Argamemnon]

It is a matter of what one can tolerate!.. I wouldn't want someone putting a tree in my house to represent the birth of his/her southwest Asian god anymore than a christian would put up a wicker man to celebrate the pagan god of the sun

all the best

In that case, the best thing to do would be to divorce. Personally, I would not even contemplate marrying a Christian, but the original poster is a revert so it's a difficult situation. Frankly, I think I would divorce; I can't be bothered explaining the reason behind every action I take to a non-Muslim. I'm a lazy person.....

:wa:

[Trumble]

That highly depends on who is supporting the family and is the head of it..

Actually, I suspect it is rather more dependent on whose names are on the deeds and who gets the best divorce lawyer.... And of course, for all we know, she earns more than he does.

You mistake this holiday for one having religious significance which it doesn't!

It doesn't matter a d**n whether I think it has religious significance, whether you do or even whether markislam does. What matters is whether she does! If she is a Christian, that's rather odds-on, I would have thought. It's certainly true of most Christians in my experience!

[جوري]

Actually, I suspect it is rather more dependent on whose names are on the deeds and who gets the best divorce lawyer.... And of course, for all we know, she earns more than he does.

I haven't followed all of Mark's posts to know who earns more, but that would certainly explain why you think she is too good for him, since goodness seems directly related to salary!

It doesn't matter a d**n whether I think it has religious significance, whether you do or even whether markislam does. What matters is whether she does! If she is a Christian, that's rather odds-on, I would have thought. It's certainly true of most Christians in my experience!

My experiences with Christians of whom one is a best friend, that thanksgiving (another non-religious holiday) is even of grander importance to re:quote ''no expectations and genuine gratitude''
It does matter what this holiday signifies, and it does matter that in its entirety based on lies that I have to explain to my four year old niece why santa clause doesn't exist, even though she insists that it does because grownups in her school say so.
I don't find it OK to lie to children, and I don't find it OK to celebrate pagan holidays.. it is certainly my opinion which I am entitled to as anyone on this forum is entitled.. Mark, can take it all in and decide what is best for him with what is presented him here.. regardless of how much his wife makes or the importance of this holiday to her!

all the best

[جوري]

In that case, the best thing to do would be to divorce. Personally, I would not even contemplate marrying a Christian, but the original poster is a revert so it's a difficult situation. Frankly, I think I would divorce; I can't be bothered explaining the reason behind every action I take to a non-Muslim. I'm a lazy person.....

:wa:

I agree with that.. it isn't laziness, it is that houda is from Allah swt.. certainly we have seen many successful cases of reversion. My sister in law was a Lutheran before she married my brother and remained christian two yrs into their marriage.. you can always tell if there is a response form the other person, but if every time you are hitting a brick wall.. then you are right best go on separate ways -- people can and do grow apart.. life is a journey of many years, it is good to spend it with someone who wishes to accompany you hand in hand!

and Allah swt knows best

:wa:

[Trumble]

I haven't followed all of Mark's posts to know who earns more, but that would certainly explain why you think she is too good for him, since goodness seems directly related to salary!

Actually, it's related to who actually seems to be exhibiting all the tolerance, here.

.. it is certainly my opinion which I am entitled to as anyone on this forum is entitled.. Mark, can take it all in and decide what is best for him with what is presented him here.. regardless of how much his wife makes or the importance of this holiday to her!

Of course, as I am to mine. Nonetheless, within marriage we don't always get to choose 'what is best for me' in isolation from "what is best for us" and "what is best for him/her" when, as I'm sure you will agree, equal weight should be given to differing opinions as to what is 'best'. Or if we do so choose, we must accept the consequences. Which, in this case, seem potentially rather more severe than could possibly be justified by a conifer tree and a few fairy lights!

[Danah]

May Allah make things easy for you brother.

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew

Since you asked "many" scholars and Imams about that, then I think you dont need any more advices from us here, so have some patience with your wife and try to explain everything to her in calm. Since you are a revert, focus more in increasing your knowledge about Islam and leave the "tree" issue now.

[markislam]

Trumble i think you assume a lot of things

my wife does not work by the way. she is still in school

Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.

[Alpha Dude]

Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.

She's a Christian afterall and therefore has no need to listen and abide by the Islamic ruling.

Bro, it's not that big of an issue if you really think about it. I don't reckon you should be all that upset by it. By demanding such things, you're only driving her into defensive mode where she will end up having more of an anti-Islamic stance.

Tolerate the tree for now (you have no other choice) and gradually introduce her to Islam bit by bit and with wisdom and InshaAllah one day she will become a muslim herself.

[Danah]

^^ second that

bro Mark, things won't be solved in that way....give it some time

[Eric H]

she does not listen to what i have to say.

It seems that you might not be listening to the many scholars and imams, who are also telling you things you do not want to hear. I am sure the prophet pbuh, had a few things to say about patience

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife

In the spirit of praying for peace and understanding

Eric

[Muezzin]

Trumble i think you assume a lot of things

my wife does not work by the way. she is still in school

Right now iam hitting a brick wall, she does not listen to what i have to say.

Your wife is Christian. The Christmas decorations will be taken down in a month or so. The scholars and imams you've asked have said to have patience.

So have patience. :)

[جوري]

Actually, it's related to who actually seems to be exhibiting all the tolerance, here.

That is true.. I don't know whether his wife is exhibiting any tolerance or not, if this celebration in and of itself is a to spite him?-- we are getting one end of the story and speculating.. if she is living on his income and spends it in a way that he dislikes then that is not to be tolerated.. we are not talking extravagant jimmy choo shoes rather a principal that is at odds with his..

I invited a few of my friends out during my last rotation, and one of them ordered some sort of pasta with some pancetta and I asked her kindly to order something else.. well I knew she was upset (it didn't matter to me the price and I made it clear) but the least a person could do is grant courtesy to another party especially if their beliefs are made manifest. Now, I couldn't care less if she downed a pig for breakfast lunch and dinner on regular basis, what mattered to me is that I was not going to spend my money on something I know to be seriously at odds with my religion. I think I might even be accountable if I let it slide by virtue that I wasn't the one shoving it down my throat!

Of course, as I am to mine. Nonetheless, within marriage we don't always get to choose 'what is best for me' in isolation from "what is best for us" and "what is best for him/her" when, as I'm sure you will agree, equal weight should be given to differing opinions as to what is 'best'. Or if we do so choose, we must accept the consequences. Which, in this case, seem potentially rather more severe than could possibly be justified by a conifer tree and a few fairy lights!

I agree with that.. In my mind the passive approach to a relationship will get one nowhere. I love a peaceful existence as much as the next guy but this one has potential to a horrible fester if let slide.. One should choose their battles, I wholeheartedly agree.. but this one really is a biggie (IMHO) and not because of tree or light, but because of what it represents..

Other Muslims here have exhibited an opinion similar to yours.. and perhaps gentility is the best approach.. I am not sure that gentility will segue smoothly into the next best thing.. I predict the opposite in fact!


peace

[IAmZamzam]

A Christmas tree is a mere symbol, and symbols mean nothing except whatever meaning a person chooses to attach to them. I see nothing whatsoever wrong with celebrating Christmas so long as it's celebrated as a secular holiday--as I still freely do with my family, most of whom are Christians and one of whom is strongly anti-religious and has as little problem with secular Christmas celebration as I do. What's the problem? The main point of the holiday, at least in practice, is good will, togetherness, and generosity. Are these suddenly bad things just by virtue of association with something else??

[Donia]

I just wanted to add something.

I really think you need to have a good talk with your wife. This time it may be about the Christmas tree... and I do agree you should have patience with her as you are still a new Muslim yourself but... it is entirely possible that your wife may remain a Christian and not choose to revert.. (Adhubillah - May Allah forbid). Masha'Allah this is a very difficult situation.. (not just the tree) but the fact that ya'll are on two completely different levels now..
I sincerely hope Allah will guide her and you and make it easy on ya'll.. Ameen.

To take your mind off it, perhaps you could use this time to broaden your knowledge on why we don't celebrate Christmas and such.. and if you do know already then alhumdulillah and accept my apology for suggesting it.
I just think sometimes we know we're not supposed to do things but we don't take the time to find out why... and then when people ask us (like possibly your wife) we don't really know.
There are some things that it the answer is simply because Allah commanded us to or not to..
But there are proofs and solid reasons for others...
I'm rambling now. Excuse me. :embarrass

Encourage your wife.. Patience, patience, patience.. insha'Allah.

[Cabdullahi]

you can do the boring ''lets sit down together and talk it out'' :

just tell her trees belong outside and its a bit stupid to put it in the sitting room without benefiting from all those nutrients by eating the leaves like reindeers

or the exciting stealth mission :

wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!

[Fטлку]

What a charming pair you are.

I was being sarcastic :exhausted

[CuteStuff]

But nobody's supporting him :?

by telling him that he can still wreck christmas - i dont really classify that as support

[Fטлку]

^I knew I should have stayed out of this section -.-

[CuteStuff]

wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!

Oh yes job done!! Are you even thinking before you give advice? This brother is asking for advice not asking how to cause arguments between his wife!!! if he goes and throws the tree outside - dont you think that will actually cause conflict between the two? she will be very unhappy and what can that lead to?

i suggest you take advice from the imaans - they are knowledged people and if they say be patient then try to be patient... and Inshallah Allah shows her the right path.

[Fטлку]

^ I think he's just trying to lighten it up...:hiding:
On the other hand, I'm very glad your post wasn't directed at me :X

[Danah]

wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!

seriously bro!
can't you be a little more serious when you give advice? I am sure you didn't mean what you said :hmm:

[CuteStuff]

^ I think he's just trying to lighten it up...:hiding:
On the other hand, I'm very glad your post wasn't directed at me :X

Lol why do you say that?

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

well Mark, now you see the problem of "springing" your Islam on your wife.

take a giant step back and try to remember if she is doing anything different this year. she MAY go it a we bit strong just to p*ss you off.

if however, she is doing xmas EXACTLY as before, you're the one all sodded out.

either attempt some for of dawah in regards to her practices or just leave her be.

you COULD invite some Jehovah Witness' over and they could explain the origins of xmas to her. once she's thought about it, it would be preferable to her that your are a Muslim and NOT a Jehovah's Witness!!


you could query her on every little thing, such as, "what does that have to do with Isa ibn Marriam?" followed by, "did HE do this?

you could ask her which of the birth stories, Matthew or Luke, she likes better. then ask why they are different. in Matthew, Joseph and Mary live in Bethlehem. in Luke, they live in Nazareth. a bit odd, eh?

you need to find a way to make inroads with your wife or consider just divorcing her and finding yourself a nice Muslim girl.

:wa:

[markislam]

divorce is in my mind but i want to wait and see and not rush i am doing ishtikara about it

[CuteStuff]

Divroce is on your mind?? dont you think thats a bit drastic?

[aadil77]

you can do the boring ''lets sit down together and talk it out'' :

just tell her trees belong outside and its a bit stupid to put it in the sitting room without benefiting from all those nutrients by eating the leaves like reindeers

or the exciting stealth mission :

wake up at night whilst she's a sleep and slam dunk the tree into the skip outside

job done!

hilarious :D, can't rep

[GuestFellow]

my wife is going to put christmas tree today in the house.

i told her no dont do that.

she is not listening

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew

dont understand what to do imsad

Oh let her celebrate Christmas. I know she is a Christian and your Muslim, the last thing you need to get an argument is over a Christmas tree.

You both need to keep each other happy despite your differences.

[cat eyes]

divorce is in my mind but i want to wait and see and not rush i am doing ishtikara about it

brother mark don't panick okay you are in my duaa. do istikhara and wait for the outcome of that. everything will be okay inshaAllah.

[Italianguy]

my wife is going to put christmas tree today in the house.

i told her no dont do that.

she is not listening

i asked so many scholars and imams they all say have patience with you wife :phew

dont understand what to do imsad

I'm with you brother.I am a Christian i don't put up a tree either. It takes the focus of the meaning. But it is still just a tree. Keep i mind it will be harder for you and ger being in an unequilly yoked marriage as far as your faith. She is your wife though...and we as men need alot of patience.lol but equally women need patience for us as well they are our equalls and need us to be understanding as well.

You don't have to celebrate Christmas just because of a tree, Allah knows your heart and what is in it:D Try to be understanding of her and she will do the same for you.

God bless

P.s. I hope it's not a real one, they stink and you have to vacume up the needles that fall off.lol

[CuteStuff]

You do need to be patient with this. Firstly you say..

yes she is a christian and i am new revert to islam

The as long as she is not affecting your duties as a muslim i dont really see the problem. You knew reverting as a muslim and her staying as a Chrisitian would mean her celebrating Christmas.

divorce is in my mind but i want to wait and see and not rush i am doing ishtikara about it

This is quite a an extreme step to take over a Christmas tree.