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ahmed_indian
12-12-2009, 07:59 AM
:sl:

* this post is for everybody. took india-pakistan just as an example.

its ok to love one's place of birth but there's no place for *nationalism* in Islam. we cannot support our nation blindly knowing we are wrong. we cannot hate a "group of muslims" just because our leaders dislike them. you cannot hate a muslim because s/he hates muslims from your country. their deeds for them and our deeds for us.

on Day of Judgment, only faith and deeds will be analysed. neither number of nuclear weapons nor economic development.

Prophet :saws: said, "He is not one of us who calls for "assabiyyah" (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for "assabiyyah" or who dies for "assabiyyah".

Prophet :saws: "Leave it (nationalism, racism, and patriotism), it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari]

"...People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of hellfire...."
[Abu Dawood and Tirmidhi]
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JoshuaD
12-12-2009, 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by ahmed_indian
:sl:

* this post is for everybody. took india-pakistan just as an example.

its ok to love one's place of birth but there's no place for *nationalism* in Islam. we cannot support our nation blindly knowing we are wrong. we cannot hate a "group of muslims" just because our leaders dislike them. you cannot hate a muslim because s/he hates muslims from your country. their deeds for them and our deeds for us.

on Day of Judgment, only faith and deeds will be analysed. neither number of nuclear weapons nor economic development.

Prophet :saws: said, "He is not one of us who calls for "assabiyyah" (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for "assabiyyah" or who dies for "assabiyyah".

Prophet :saws: "Leave it (nationalism, racism, and patriotism), it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari]

"...People should give up their pride in nations because that is a coal from the coals of hellfire...."
[Abu Dawood and Tirmidhi]
Good post. The world would be considerably better without blind nationalism and factionalism.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-12-2009, 06:49 PM
:sl:

The only concern I have is for fellow Muslims, not a piece of land InshaAllah...
I dislike nationalism and all that gunk. And I don't like any current person in power.

:w:
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CosmicPathos
12-12-2009, 06:56 PM
We can certainly hate those Muslims who fight in the secular army against Muslims. Point being, the passion of Indian Muslims to work in Indian Army for martyring Pakistani Muslims. Many scholars have made takfeer on such Indian Muslims and I agree with them whole-heartedly.
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Supreme
12-12-2009, 11:09 PM
You shouldn't hate anybody period
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CosmicPathos
12-12-2009, 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
You shouldn't hate anybody period
I wish you were correct. I am taught by my God to love good and purity and hate evil and vice.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-13-2009, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
You shouldn't hate anybody period
It doesn't work like that, although theoretically it sounds great.
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Supreme
12-13-2009, 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
It doesn't work like that, although theoretically it sounds great.
I know it doesn't work like that, but if you're going to hate someone, hate the individual because of their deeds or personality, not because they belong to a different religion or live in a different piece of dirt to you.
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CosmicPathos
12-13-2009, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I know it doesn't work like that, but if you're going to hate someone, hate the individual because of their deeds or personality, not because they belong to a different religion or live in a different piece of dirt to you.
We hate the actions of individuals, not the individual itself. Who knows tomorrow that individual changes his actions and we start loving him? So yea, we love that individual as a creation of God but not his actions. If he changes his actions and brings them in accordance with God, its a win-win situation. We already appreciate his existence as a human, add to that our appreciation and love for his good actions.
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Banu_Hashim
12-13-2009, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
It doesn't work like that, although theoretically it sounds great.
We should strive to work that way otherwise we're not doing our best to follow the best of akhlaaq wal adaab. With that being said, people should only be judged by their actions and words.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-14-2009, 04:06 PM
:sl:

Ok obviously I jumped in suddenly and you guys are talking about what I wasn't. I never said we shouldn't strive that way nor we shouldn't follow that adab.

Surely I can hate the person who does wrong? And surely I can hate the one who deserves it? I'm not going to like someone who mocks our deen nor those who do things that your mind would never have contemplated. That's what I was talking about.
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MSalman
12-14-2009, 04:41 PM
The others have already clarified the issue but just to point an error

Originally Posted by Supreme
I know it doesn't work like that, but if you're going to hate someone, hate the individual because of their deeds or personality, not because they belong to a different religion or live in a different piece of dirt to you.
that is contradiction by the way. The actions and speech of a person are mostly based upon a person's belief, which is directly dependent upon a person's religion.
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Supreme
12-14-2009, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
The others have already clarified the issue but just to point an error

that is contradiction by the way. The actions and speech of a person are mostly based upon a person's belief, which is directly dependent upon a person's religion.
Not entirely, no. You could be a racist, yet never speak a word about it or act upon it.
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Banu_Hashim
12-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Light of Heaven
:sl:

Ok obviously I jumped in suddenly and you guys are talking about what I wasn't. I never said we shouldn't strive that way nor we shouldn't follow that adab.

Surely I can hate the person who does wrong? And surely I can hate the one who deserves it? I'm not going to like someone who mocks our deen nor those who do things that your mind would never have contemplated. That's what I was talking about.
Ofcourse. Sorry, I thought you meant people in general (like from different countries). Of course you're in your right to hate a bad person who does bad things like mock your religion. Mistunderstanding. :)

Fe Amaanillah.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-14-2009, 09:53 PM
:sl:

No need to apologize brother inshaAllah :) JazakAllah Khair,

:w:
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MSalman
12-15-2009, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Not entirely, no. You could be a racist, yet never speak a word about it or act upon it.
I don't know what this has to do with the point I raised. But are you sure about what you said? People are judged by their speech and actions. How can a person be a racist when he has not acted upon his thoughts (action of tongue or limbs)? This is like saying a person can be a murderer without inciting a murder or killing someone!
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Supreme
12-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
I don't know what this has to do with the point I raised. But are you sure about what you said? People are judged by their speech and actions. How can a person be a racist when he has not acted upon his thoughts (action of tongue or limbs)? This is like saying a person can be a murderer without inciting a murder or killing someone!
His thoughts could be racist.
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Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн
12-15-2009, 08:27 PM
What you think and feel, your thoughts, are visible through your behavior.
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