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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 05:08 PM
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyHvksPYM1s

An emotional video about how Istanbul has become "kafir", meaning that western cultural influence is slowly destroying Islam. I think it's a former Turkish politician who is talking about bars and nightclubs and other western filth which is affecting the new generation. I found it very sad to watch this because it's true and also applies to other Muslim nations :cry:

He says, if our forefathers saw Istanbul they would declare it a kafir city. The new generation have destroyed everything, our women walk around half naked, there is nothing left. I'm complaining about this o Allah. O Muslim turn back to the Qur'an and Islam etc.
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ardianto
12-16-2009, 05:26 PM
Actually, Istanbul is a beautiful city.

But very sad, it had became a place like that. May Allah saves Turkiye.
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 05:34 PM
We are not talking about beauty brother, we are talking about western culture penetrating Muslim societies and slowly destroying Islam from within.
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جوري
12-16-2009, 05:35 PM
Turkey will be won back with Allah Akbar insh'Allah......

:wa:
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جوري
12-16-2009, 05:39 PM
btw akhi, can you translate his speech? seemed vehement..

:wa:
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 05:42 PM
Istanbul has become non-Muslim?

I don't think that makes sense....I think Istanbul has become secular.
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Ali_008
12-16-2009, 05:47 PM
:sl:
I visited Istanbul last year, alhamdulillah and found it to be a beautiful city. What I observed there was that the people over there were living on extreme ends. The people which I saw, either they were totally Islamic - long beards, hijab, covered heads alhamdulillah but on the other hand, there were also people half-naked walking on the streets, smoking, drinking, doping. I also heard that there are strip-clubs in Istanbul and they are world famous. I stayed away from all that.

Alhamdulillah, I had the opportunity of visiting the Blue Mosque and Hagia Sophia. I really liked the city but I found the Muslims over there in such conditions. Lets hope and pray that Islam wins over its very own Constantinople again. :)
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MSalman
12-16-2009, 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Istanbul has become non-Muslim?

I don't think that makes sense....I think Istanbul has become secular.
and there is a difference between the two?
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Turkey will be won back with Allah Akbar insh'Allah......

:wa:
Will Lebanon be won back as well, and Tunisia and Morocco... :cry:

:wa:
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جوري
12-16-2009, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Will Lebanon be won back as well, and Tunisia and Morocco... :cry:

:wa:
I have no choice but to believe so akhi..
change comes from the individual.. individuals makeup nations..

:wa:
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
btw akhi, can you translate his speech? seemed vehement..

:wa:
:sl:

Of course, I will try..

He says:

"destroying everything is very easy. Like wild animals they are destroying everything we had built. The new generation have succeeded in destroying Istanbul. Our forefathers built wonderful masjids and historic buildings, but they are building bars and nightclubs.

They have replaced them with bars and brothels and casinos. They have turned Istanbul into a hell. If our brave forefathers woke up, they would declare this city kafir. They would not recognize this city. Those who destroy my religion, those who destroy my culture and civilization, I complain to you about them o Rab, I complain to you o rasul Allah.

They sell our women, they undress them and treat them like objects. They are our mothers, our sisters. Istanbul has now become a city of lust. Istanbul was a city of masjids. O Muslim, wake up. Wake up Muslim! Embrace your religion Muslim. Forget politics and wordly life, first embrace Islam, o Muslim! If you claim that you believe in Allah and the Hereafter, embrace Islam. Embrace the Qur'an.

They have prevented us from getting closer to Allah (he means secularists). They have simply destroyed everything..."

I think this a fairly good translation, although far from perfect. My English is not as good as I think! Thank you for reminding :p

:wa:
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
and there is a difference between the two?
But despite living in a secular system, people can still be very pious. There are of course millions of deeply religious people in Istanbul, no doubt.
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by Ali_008
:sl:
I visited Istanbul last year, alhamdulillah and found it to be a beautiful city. What I observed there was that the people over there were living on extreme ends. The people which I saw, either they were totally Islamic - long beards, hijab, covered heads alhamdulillah but on the other hand, there were also people half-naked walking on the streets, smoking, drinking, doping. I also heard that there are strip-clubs in Istanbul and they are world famous. I stayed away from all that.
Strip clubs? I wouldn't be surprised because we also have a "gay pride parade" in Istanbul!

:wa:
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tango92
12-16-2009, 06:43 PM
you can tell this with alot of turks in my school - i couldnt differentiate a turkish girl from a white girl because of the way they dress, but strangely some of them still come to pray sometimes and consider themselves righteous people...

and Allah knows best
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Supreme
12-16-2009, 06:44 PM
Now you know how we felt when you stole it from us Christians!

(And desecrated the beautiful, sacred Hagia Sophia by turning it into a mosque.)
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جوري
12-16-2009, 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
:sl:

Of course, I will try..


:wa:
thank you :smile:
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Now you know how we felt when you stole it from us Christians!

(And desecrated the beautiful, sacred Hagia Sophia by turning it into a mosque.)
Christians have no right to complain, you stole North America, South America and Australia and brutally massacred the inhabitants. You have treated people much worse! And your imperialism still continues. You build systems to keep nations dependent on you. I can go on and on!
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جوري
12-16-2009, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Now you know how we felt when you stole it from us Christians!

(And desecrated the beautiful, sacred Hagia Sophia by turning it into a mosque.)
the same way you desecrated mosques in spain with pagan symbols?



Turkey wasn't stolen, they became Muslim-- it is easy to reject a self-immolating three headed god as the creator of the universe!

all the best
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Do you speak Turki? is your name Argamemnon? Are you a brother in Islam? did I ask you for your sophomoric commentary?


go try elsewhere --your 'witticism' might be better received!

all the best!
:sl:

I speak Turkish, although not as good as Dutch.

Argamemnon was a Greek King or so. Actually Agamemnon but I added an "r".
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جوري
12-16-2009, 07:02 PM
woops sorry it isn't your post I meant to quote, but supreme.. my humble apologies..
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 07:04 PM
Islam haters are so funny, they never look in the mirror. This is coming from someone whose government is complicit in massacring millions of Muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon.
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by islamiclife
and there is a difference between the two?
Well secular means:

1. not concerned with religion: not controlled by a religious body or concerned with religious or spiritual matters
secular education

2. not religious: not religious or spiritual in nature
secular music
Kaffir means non-Muslim, it is concerned with secularism and those who follow different religions.

Though both descriptions could be used to describe what has taken place in Instanbul. I think Turkey is heading towards secularism in the long-term because it is considering to join the EU.
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Christians have no right to complain, you stole North America, South America and Australia and brutally massacred the inhabitants. You have treated people much worse! And your imperialism still continues. You build systems to keep nations dependent on you. I can go on and on!
Well the current British people did not do anything, it was their ancestors that committed such acts. I'm pretty sure many British people would not tolerate inhumane treatment of different races and strongly against wars.

Originally Posted by Supreme
Now you know how we felt when you stole it from us Christians!

(And desecrated the beautiful, sacred Hagia Sophia by turning it into a mosque.)
We didn't steal anything. I probably wasn't born when that happened! (When did it happen?)
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
it is easy to reject a self-immolating god three headed god as the creator of the universe!
Hahaha :D that was funny but true..
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 07:13 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Well the current British people did not do anything, it was their ancestors that committed such acts. I'm pretty sure many British people would not tolerate inhumane treatment of different races and strongly against wars.
That's not true. Current British people are supporting Zionist crimes and wouldn't mind bombing Iran.
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
thank you :smile:
you are welcome, no problem :)
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Ahmedislooking
12-16-2009, 07:15 PM
May Allah save muslism & fix our feet on the straight path.
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
That's not true. Current British people are supporting Zionist crimes and wouldn't mind bombing Iran.
Yes that is true. I believe many European nations and America plus sweet adorable, innocent, little and poor Israel wouldn't mind destroying Iran. >_>

I believe the media has fed them constant lies. Though being ignorant is not an option either. People should not believe what the media tells them, media is the number one cause for mass brainwashing.

However there are some people who are against Zionism war crimes and are against any military action against Iran.
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Predator
12-16-2009, 07:25 PM
Which country do you is now more Islamic ? Turkey or Malaysia
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by Airforce
Which country do you is now more Islamic ? Turkey or Malaysia
Probably Malaysia. Turkey is considering to join the EU....
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cihad
12-16-2009, 07:34 PM
and istanbul used ti be called islambul remember
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Predator
12-16-2009, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Probably Malaysia. Turkey is considering to join the EU....
Malaysia also has one legal systems for muslims and one for non-muslims
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Supreme
12-16-2009, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Christians have no right to complain, you stole North America, South America and Australia and brutally massacred the inhabitants. You have treated people much worse! And your imperialism still continues. You build systems to keep nations dependent on you. I can go on and on!
No, secular governments did that. They may be Christian majority countries, but that doesn't mean the West imperialises countries for the sake of turning them Christian. It does it for the sake of money and power, if the colonial population happen to like Christianity, then that's obviously a bonus, but it's not always necessary, as evidenced in India.

the same way you desecrated mosques in spain with pagan symbols?
It isn't the same. The Hagia Sophia was the focal point of Eastern Christianity, and far more holy and beautiful than most mosques in Spain.

it is easy to reject a self-immolating three headed god as the creator of the universe!
Evidently not so easy for the large populations of Eastern Orthodox Christians in the Middle East!

Turkey wasn't stolen, they became Muslim
And now it's becoming secular-- it's easy to reject a religion such as Islam when you will it!
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GuestFellow
12-16-2009, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme;1260119=
It isn't the same. The Hagia Sophia was the focal point of Eastern Christianity, and far more holy and beautiful than most mosques in Spain.
Purely subjective.


And now it's becoming secular-- it's easy to reject a religion such as Islam when you will it!
Actually many people Turkey happen to still practice Islam, just the government wants to impose a secular system. The odd thing is many Muslims in the West are becoming more religious and some Muslims in the East are becoming more secular. Plus more people are converting to Islam, so I would not say it is easy to reject.

Not even non-practising Muslims have been able to reject Islam.
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aamirsaab
12-16-2009, 08:34 PM
:sl:
Er guys can we please get back on topic?

Cheers me ducks.
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Argamemnon
12-16-2009, 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
but that doesn't mean the West imperialises countries for the sake of turning them Christian. It does it for the sake of money and power.
Doing it for money and power is even worse... wiping out entire populations for money can't be a noble thing.

Also, the Byzantines were always conquering other nations and peoples. They were very hostile against Muslims. There was an Arab, I don't remember who it was, but he said "even if you never attack and fight the Byzantines (Greeks), they will attack and fight you! Either they conquered us, or we conquered them.

Peace
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Supreme
12-16-2009, 08:44 PM
Purely subjective.
The significance of the Hagia Sophia is objective. It is the Eastern Christian equivalent of St Peter's Basilica for Catholics or the Al Asqa mosque for Sunni Muslims.

Actually many people Turkey happen to still practice Islam, just the government wants to impose a secular system. The odd thing is many Muslims in the West are becoming more religious and some Muslims in the East are becoming more secular.
I do find that odd, but not entirely unbelievable. If you're a minority, like Western Muslims, you will try and defend your culture and religion more fiercely than you would in a Muslim majority country.
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yasin ibn Ahmad
12-16-2009, 11:24 PM
Türkiye is a different place , so is Istanbul.For example, many people introduce themselves religious although they dont perform daily salah.Maybe the secular environment makes them ignore some practices of Islam.And as we talk about bars , clubs in Istanbul.I am sure not all of them but some of the owners of these go jumma-Friday prayers.At least , this is something.Everybody has their own sins and they are responsible for that. Türkiye is a different country.
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GuestFellow
12-17-2009, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Supreme
The significance of the Hagia Sophia is objective. It is the Eastern Christian equivalent of St Peter's Basilica for Catholics or the Al Asqa mosque for Sunni Muslims.
To be honest I don't know what your talking about. I thought we were walking about which building looks more beautiful. Of course we have beautiful churches and mosques. I'll do some research later.

I do find that odd, but not entirely unbelievable. If you're a minority, like Western Muslims, you will try and defend your culture and religion more fiercely than you would in a Muslim majority country.
Yup. Some Muslims in the East may wish to experience a lifestyle as a Westerner. Muslims in the West have already experienced it, so want to avoid when they come back to their senses.
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Al-Indunisiy
12-18-2009, 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme
The significance of the Hagia Sophia is objective. It is the Eastern Christian equivalent of St Peter's Basilica for Catholics or the Al Asqa mosque for Sunni Muslims.

To be honest I don't know what your talking about. I thought we were walking about which building looks more beautiful. Of course we have beautiful churches and mosques. I'll do some research later.
The main topic of his posts is about the significance of the Hagia Sophia(Greek for: Holy Wisdom) as the centre of Eastern Orthodox Christianity(as The See of the Archbishop or something). Just like how the Sistine Chapel is to Roman Catholics as the Sancta Sedes(Holy See).
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Al-Indunisiy
12-18-2009, 01:24 AM
:sl:
Correction:
Istanbul is equivalent to the Vatican/Rome, and the Hagia Sophia the equivalent of the Sistine Chapel.

Below is the etymology of the name of the city:

Turk. name of Constantinople, a corruption of Gk. phrase eis tan (ten) polin "into the city," which is how the local Gk. population referred to it. Picked up in Turkish 16c., though Turk. folk etymology traces the name to Islam bol "plenty of Islam." Gk. polis "city" has been adopted into Turk. as a place-name suffix as -bolu.

:wa:
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Al-Indunisiy
12-18-2009, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Turkey wasn't stolen, they became Muslim

And now it's becoming secular-- it's easy to reject a religion such as Islam when you will it!
Just as how easily France became secular.
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