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Samiun
12-22-2009, 02:42 PM
:sl: brothers and sisters, it is said in the Al-Quran that he will come into the world along with the True Messiah(Nabi Isa A.S.) when the world is full of oppression.

Well what I found confusing was, how could Imam Al-Mahdi be still alive?He was murdered/killed thousands of years ago. But lately, I search up on Wiki to find out that he was hidden by Allah S.W.T. in the world?

Man I'm confused :hiding:
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aadil77
12-22-2009, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nabiel
:sl: brothers and sisters, it is said in the Al-Quran that he will come into the world along with the True Messiah(Nabi Isa A.S.) when the world is full of oppression.

Well what I found confusing was, how could Imam Al-Mahdi be still alive?He was murdered/killed thousands of years ago. But lately, I search up on Wiki to find out that he was hidden by Allah S.W.T. in the world?

Man I'm confused :hiding:
Brother are you and your family following the ahmadiyyah/qadiani sect by any chance?

they believe the messiah was a guy called 'mirza ghulam ahmad' and that he's died a while ago. The guy claimed he could perform miracles, was a prophet and all kinds of other crazy things.

All scholars agree that anyone following this sect is a disbeliever and not actually muslim
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aadil77
12-22-2009, 02:58 PM
There were quite a few threads explaining it but they've seemed to have dissappeared
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Samiun
12-22-2009, 03:20 PM
No, me and my family are muslims. We don't have any sects in this country at least not the one I know of somewhere in West Malaysia where he claims that he is the last prophet(Yes I know it's a joke but sadly he has followers).

So was Imam Al-Mahdi murdered/hidden in the past?
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Samiun
12-22-2009, 03:21 PM
Subanallah!! I can't believe I'm referring to the beloved imam as being murdered or killed, can someone refer me to a term that is more appropriate?
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ardianto
12-22-2009, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Brother are you and your family following the ahmadiyyah/qadiani sect by any chance?

they believe the messiah was a guy called 'mirza ghulam ahmad' and that he's died a while ago. The guy claimed he could perform miracles, was a prophet and all kinds of other crazy things.

All scholars agree that anyone following this sect is a disbeliever and not actually muslim
:sl:

Brother, why you assume if brother Nabiel follows ahmadiyyah sect ?.
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aadil77
12-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Brother imam mahdi may not even be born yet, he's definately not dead as he will lead all the muslims in the future

this should help

Praise be to Allaah.

Imam al-Mahdi will be a righteous man from among the descendants of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who will appear at the end of time, through whom Allaah will set mankind’s affairs straight, and will fill the earth with fairness and justice just as it was filled with wrongdoing and oppression. His name will be the same as the name of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and his father’s name will be the same as that of the father of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). So his name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Mahdi, or Ahmad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Mahdi. He will be descended from Faatimah the daughter of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), through al-Hasan ibn ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him). The sign of his appearance will be widespread corruption and the earth being filled with wrongdoing and aggression.

There are a number of ahaadeeth which point to his appearance and attributes being as described above. When taken together these reports reach the level of tawaatur (i.e., narrated from so many people by so many people that it is inconceivable that they could all have agreed upon a lie). This is explained in more detail in question no. 1252.

With regard to the order in which the portents of the Hour will appear, there is some difference of opinion among the scholars, the reason being that no such order or events is narrated in the Sunnah. However the scholars have determined the order of some of the events, as follows:

1 – The appearance of the minor portents of the Hour, of which there are many which will not appear in any specific order. These include: the sending of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his death; the plague of ‘Amwaas; the appearance of tribulations; the loss of honesty; the disappearance of knowledge; the spread of riba, musical instruments and alcohol; regarding these things as permissible; competition in erecting tall buildings; a great deal of killing; time passing more quickly; adornment of the mosques; prevalence of shirk; the spread of immorality; a great deal of stinginess; many earthquakes; landslides, transformations and pelting with stones from the heavens; disappearance of righteous people; believers’ dreams coming true; neglect of the Sunnah; a great deal of lying; a great deal of false testimony; a great deal of sudden death; a great deal of rain but little growth of vegetation; wishing for death; increase in numbers of the “Romans” and fighting them; and other signs which are narrated in saheeh ahaadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

2 – The appearance of the Mahdi, who will appear before the Dajjaal and before the descent of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This is indicated by the hadeeth of Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “ ‘Eesa ibn Maryam will come down and their leader the Mahdi will say to him: ‘Come and lead us in prayer.’ But he will say: ‘No, one of them should lead the others in prayer, as a sign of honour from Allaah to this ummah.’: Narrated by al-Haarith ibn Abi Usaamah in his Musnad. And Ibn al-Qayyim said in al-Manaar al-Muneef (1/147): its isnaad is jayyid. The hadeeth is narrated with a mawsool isnaad in Saheeh Muslim, without naming their leader. Muslim’s report says: “… ‘And ‘Eesa ibn Maryam (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will come down and their leader will say to him: ‘Come and lead us in prayer.’ But he will say: ‘No, one of them should lead the others in prayer, as a sign of honour from Allaah to this ummah.’” Narrated by Muslim, 225. So ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) will follow the Mahdi in prayer, which indicates that the Mahdi will appear before ‘Eesa, and ‘Eesa will kill the Dajjaal, which indicates that the Dajjaal will appear during the time of the Mahdi. See also question no. 10301.

3 – The appearance of the Dajjaal – for more detail about his emergence see Questions no. 8806, 171, 8301.

4 – The descent of ‘Eesa ibn Maryam and his killing the Dajjaal (see question no. 10302).

5 – The appearance of Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj (Gog and Magog). One indication that Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj will emerge at the time of ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) is the hadeeth of al-Nawaas ibn Sam’aan, which says that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them about the Dajjaal, and said: “Whilst he is like that, Allaah will reveal to ‘Eesa: ‘I have released slaves of Mine whom no one will be able to fight. Take My slaves to safety in al-Toor (Sinai),’ and Allaah will send Ya’jooj and Ma’jooj, who will come swarming down from every mound. The first of them will pass by Lake Tiberias and will drink the water in it, and the last of them will pass by it and will say, ‘There was water here once.’” Narrated by Muslim, no. 2937.

See also questions no. 171 and 3437.

Then the signs will come quickly, one after another. According to a hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The signs will come one after another, like beads falling from a string”. Narrated by al-Tabaraani in al-Mu’jam al-Awsat; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’. Then the sun will rise from the west, the Beast will emerge, and there will be landslides and other major signs. We ask Allaah to make us steadfast unto death. And Allaah knows best.

For more information see: al-Mahdi al-Muntazar by Dr. ‘Abd al-‘Aleem al-bastawi, 1/256; Ashraat al-Saa’ah by Yoosuf al-Waabil, p. 249. see also question no. 3259.


Islam Q&A
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ardianto
12-22-2009, 03:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Brother imam mahdi may not even be born yet, he's definately not dead as he will lead all the muslims in the future

this should help
I think you right. Sunni's Imam Mahdi may not even be born yet.
But Shia believe, their Imam Mahdi (different Imam Mahdi) had born and now he is living in a cave.
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Salahudeen
12-22-2009, 04:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
I think you right. Sunni's Imam Mahdi may not even be born yet.
But Shia believe, their Imam Mahdi (different Imam Mahdi) had born and now he is living in a cave.
and some believe the Qur'an is incomplete and he's going to bring the missing parts of the Qur'an when he comes and reserect abu bakr, umar and uthmaan then hang them and whip them for taking bits away from the real qur'an. Be aware of them.
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Ali_008
12-22-2009, 04:21 PM
:sl:
Here's an excerpt from the book "Signs before the Day of Judgment" by Al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer Hadeeth. It contains all the major Ahadeeth and verses which talk about Imam Mahdee. I hope it clarifies your doubts.

The Mahdee
The Mahdee will come at the end of time; he is one of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs and Imaams. He is not the Mahdee who is expected by the Shee'ah, who they claim will appear from a tunnel in Saamarraa. This claim of theirs has no basis in reality nor in any reliable source. They allege that his name is Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ibn al-Askaree, and that he went into the tunnel when he was five years old. The matter we intend to discuss has been proven by Ahaadeeth narrated from the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam): that the Mahdee will appear at the end of time. I believe that he will appear before Jesus the son of Mary comes down, as the Ahaadeeth indicate. Hajjaaj said that he heard Alee say, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, "Even if there were only one day left for the world, Allaah would send a man from among us to fill the world with justice, just as it had been filled with oppression and justice." [Ahmad] [1]

Alee said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, "The Mahdee is one of us, from among the people of my household. In one night Allaah will inspire him and prepare him to carry out his task successfully." [Ahmad and Ibn Maajah] [2]

Alee said, whilst looking at his son al-Hasan, This son of mine is a Sayyid (master), as the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) named him. Among his descendants there will be man named after your Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam). He will resemble him in behaviour but not in looks. Then he told them the report which mentions that the earth will be filled with justice. [Abu Daawood] [3]

Abu Daawood devoted a chapter of his Sunan to the subject of the Mahdee. At the beginning of this chapter he quoted the Hadeeth of Jaabir ibn Samrah, in which the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, "This religion will remain steadfast until twelve caliphs have ruled over you." (According to another report he said, "This religion will remain strong until twelve caliphs have ruled over you.") Jaabir said, "The people cheered and shouted Allaahu Akbar! Then the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) whispered something. I asked my father 'What did he say?' My father said, 'He said, All ofthem will be from Quraysh.'" Another report says that when the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) returned to his house, Quraysh came to him and asked, "What will happen after that?" He said, "Then there will be tribulation and killing." [4]

Abu Daawood reported a Hadeeth from Abd Allaah ibn Masood: "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, "If there were only one day left for the world, that day would be lengthened until a man from among my descendants or from among the people of my household, was sent; his name will be the same as my name, and his fathers name will be the same as my fathers name. He will fill the earth with justice and fairness, just as it will have been filled with injustice and oppression. The world will not end until a man of my household, whose name is the same as mine, holds sway." [5]

Abd Allaah said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'A man from my household, whose name is like mine, will take power.'" [Tirmidhee] [6]

In another report, from Abu Hurairah, the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, "If there were only one day left for this world, Allaah would lengthen it until he took power." [7]

Aboo Sa'eed said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'The Mahdee will be one of my descendants; he will have a high forehead and a hooked nose. He will fill the earth with justice and fairness just as it was filled with injustice and oppression, and he will rule for seven years.'" [Abu
Daawood] [8]

Umm Salamah said, "I heard the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) say,'The Mahdee will be one of my descendants, from the children of Faatimah.'" [Abu Daawood] [9]

Umm Salamah reported that the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam)
said, "People will begin to differ after the death of a Khaleefah. A man from the people of Madinah will flee to Makkah. Some of the people of Makkah will come to him and drag him out against his will; they will swear allegiance to him between al-Rukn and al-Maqam. An army will be sent against him from Syria; it will be swallowed up in the desert between Makkah and Madinah. When the people see this, groups of people from Syria and Iraq will come and swear allegiance to him. Then a man from Quraysh whose mother is from Kalb will appear and send an army against them, and will defeat them; this will be known as the Battle of Kalb. Whoever does not witness the spoils of this battle will miss much! The Mahdee will distribute the wealth, and will rule the people according to the Sunnah of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam). Then he will die, and the Muslims will pray for him." [Abu Daawood] [10]

Alee said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'A man named al-Haarith ibn Hirath will come from Transoxania. His army will be led by a man named Mansoor. He will pave the way for and establish the government of the family of Muhammad, just as Quraysh established the government of the Messenger of Allaah. Every believer will be obliged to support him.'" [Abu Daawood] [11]

Abd Allaah ibn al-Haarith ibn Juz' al-Zubaydee said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'A people will come out of the East who will pave the way for the Mahdee.'" [Ibn Maajah] [12]

Abd Allaah said, "Whilst we were with the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), some young men from Banu Hashim approached us. When the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) saw them, his eyes filled with tears and the colour of his face changed. I said, 'We can see something has changed in your face, and it upsets us.' The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said, 'We are the people of a Household for whom Allaah has chosen the Hereafter rather than this world. The people of my Household (Ahl al-Bayt) will suffer a great deal after my death, and will be persecuted until a people carrying black banners will come out of the east. They will instruct the people to do good, but the people will refuse; they will fight until they are victorious, and the people do as they asked, but they will not accept it from them until they hand over power to a man from my household. Then the earth will be filled with fairness, just as it had been filled with injustice. If any of you live to see this, you should go to him even if you have to crawl across ice.'" [13]

This text refers to the rule of the Abbasids, as we have mentioned above in the text referring to the beginningof their rule in 132 AH. It also indicates that the Mahdee will appear after the Abbasids, and that he will be one of the Ahl al-Bayt, a descendant of Faatimah, the daughter of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam), through Hasan, not Husayn, as mentioned in the Hadeeth from Alee ibn Abee Taalib; and Allaah knows best. [14]

Thwaban said, "The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) said,'Three men will be killed at the place where your treasure is. Each of them will be the son of a Khaleefah, and none of them will get hold of the treasure. Then the black banners will come out of the East, and they will slaughter you in a way which has never been seen before.' Then he said something which I do not remember; then, 'If you see him, go and give him your allegiance, even if you have to crawl over ice, because he is the Khaleefah of Allaah, the Mahdee.'" [Ibn Maajah] [15]

The treasure referred to in this text is the treasure of the Ka'bah. Towards the end of time, three of the sons of the Khaleefahs will fight to get hold of it, until the Mahdee appears. He will appear from the East, not from the tunnel of Saamarraa, as the Shee'ah claim; they believe that he is in this tunnel now, and they are waiting for him to emerge at the end of time. There is no evidence for it in any book or Saheeh tradition, and there is no benefit in believing this.

The truth of the matter is that the Mahdee whose coming is promised at the end of time will appear from the East,and people will swear allegiance to him at the Ka'bah, as some Ahaadeeth indicate.

At the time of the Mahdee, there will be peace and prosperity, with abundant crops and wealth, strong rulers, and Islaam will be well established.

Aboo Sa'eed said, "By Allaah every ruler we have had has been worse than the previous one, and every year has been worse than the year before, but I heard the Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) say, 'Among your rulers will be one who will give out wealth freely, without counting it. A man will come and ask him for money, and he will say, "Take"; the man will spread his cloak out and the ruler will pour money into it.' The Prophet (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) spread out a thick cloak he had been wearing, to demonstrate the mans actions; then he gathered it up by its corners and said, 'Then the man will take it and leave.'" [Ahmad] [16]

Footnotes
[1] Ahmad, al-Musnad; similar Hadeeth in Abu Daawood, Kitaab Awwal
al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Saheeh, Ahmad and Abu Daud, Saheeh al-Jami as-
Sagheer: 5305.
[2] Ahmad, al-Musnad and Ibn Maajah, Kitaab al-Fitan.
Checker's Note: Saheeh Saheeh al-Jami as-Sagheer: 6735. It has been
mistranslated slightly, it should be "In one night, Allaah will prepare him,"
the mention of inspiration and the carrying out of the task is explanatory.
[3] See Abu Daawood, Kitaab al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Da`eef Munqati' (chain of narration is broken), al-
Mishkat, 1st checking: 5462.
[4] Checker's Note: "... returned to his house" is a da`eef addition. The
rest of the hadeeth is saheeh.
[5] See Abu Daawood, Kitaab al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Saheeh, Saheeh Abee Daawood: 3601.
[6] Checker's Note: "A man from my household ..." Hasan, Saheeh al-
Jami as-Sagheer: 8160.
[7] at-Tirmidhee, in his chapters dealing with al-Fitan.
Checker's Note: Saheeh, Saheeh at-Tirmidhee: 1819.
[8] Abu Daawood, Kitaab al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Hasan, Saheeh Abee Daawood: 3604. Translation
states, "... a hooked nose." Correct translation is "... an aquiline nose."
[9] Abu Daawood, Kitaab al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Saheeh, Saheeh Abee Daawood: 3603.
[10] Abu Daawood, Kitaab al-Mahdee.
Checker's Note: Da`eef, al-Mishkat, 1st checking: 5456.
[11] Checker's Note: Da`eef, Da`eef al-Jami as-Sagheer: 6418.
[12] Ibn Maajah, Kitaab al-Fitan (Hadeeth 3088).
Checker's Note: Da`eef, Silsilatul Ahaadieeh ad-Da`eefah: 4826.
[13] Ibn Maajah, ibid., (Hadeeth 4082).
Checker's Note: Da`eef, Da`eef Ibn Maajah: 886.
[14] See Ahaadeeth above. (Ref. 1, 2 & 3)
Checker's Note: Footnote refers to hadeeth no. 3.
[15] Narrated by Ibn Maajah, op. cit., Hadeeth 4084.
Checker's Note: Da`eef Munkar (the isnaad is weak and moreover the meaning is wrong). In this case, the mention of "Khaleefah of Allaah" is munkar because Allaah cannot have a successor or vicegerent in His absence, Silsilatul Ahaadeeth ad-Da`eefah: 85.
[16] Ahmad, Musnad, 3/98.
Checker's Note: Da`eef. Its isnaad contains Mujahid ibn Sa'eed
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Samiun
12-22-2009, 04:34 PM
But according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi, he was born in 869 the very reason why I started this thread...
Reply

Salahudeen
12-22-2009, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nabiel
But according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi, he was born in 869 the very reason why I started this thread...

Wikipedia isn't a reliable source anyone can write on there, but the link you posted is talking about the 12th imam of the shia.

They believe in a different mehdi to us.
Reply

Samiun
12-22-2009, 04:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by squiggle
Wikipedia isn't a reliable source anyone can write on there, but the link you posted is talking about the 12th imam of the shia.

They believe in a different mehdi to us.
So that explains that. Imam Al-Mahdi isn't one of the 12th imam and doesn't even exist then?But if it's referred by a Shia he/she will say that he does exist and still live until today?

:hiding:
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ardianto
12-22-2009, 04:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nabiel
So that explains that. Imam Al-Mahdi isn't one of the 12th imam and doesn't even exist then?But if it's referred by a Shia he/she will say that he does exist and still live until today?

:hiding:
Imam Mahdi in Sunni is Muhammad ibn Abdullah.
Imam Mahdi in Shia is Muhammad ibn Askari. He is the 12th imam in Shia.

They are different person.
Reply

Salahudeen
12-22-2009, 05:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Nabiel
So that explains that. Imam Al-Mahdi isn't one of the 12th imam then?But if it's referred by a Shia he/she will say that he does exist and still live until today?

:hiding:
No imam al mahdi isn't one of the 12 imams, we don't believe in the 12 imams bro as they do.

You can't take anything from shia bro because they have major differences to us. It's best not to believe anything they say cos they have their own hadith which is different to ours.

This is from their book called usool al kafi which is like our version of sahih al bukhari.



[1] The Imams have knowledge of All that was given to the angels and the prophets. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.255 )

[2] The Imams know when they will die, and they only die by their choice. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.258 )

[3] The Imams have knowledge of the past and future; and nothing is hidden from them. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.260 )

[4] "Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Al Kafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

[5] We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145)

[6] The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)

[7] "Obedience to `Ali is true humility and disobedience to him is disbelief in Allah" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.54)

[8] "Whoever sets up another Imam besides `Ali and delays `Ali's caliphate is a polytheist" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.55)


[9] Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Al Kafi, Page No. 420)

COMMENT: These words declare Sahabahs all AhlSunnah as kufaar (Disbelievers) and Mushrikeen (Polytheists), because we -AhlSunnah- do not believe in the Shia Imamate of `Ali (which is believing that `Ali is Infallible,..etc ) also We -AhlSunnah- believe that Abubakr ® is the first caliphate, Omar ® the second and Othman ® the third, thus, We delay `Ali's caliphate to be the 4th after Abubakr, Omar and Othman, thus, Shia declare in their most reliable book that AhlSunnah are Kufaar and Mushrikeen !!!


[10] Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)

[11] All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)

12] The false verse "And We made `Ali your in-law" has been added to Surah Al-InShirah . ( Al-Kafi p.289 )

[15] No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

[16] Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)

are you really gonna listen to some 1 who holds these beliefs? :hmm:
Reply

Ali_008
12-22-2009, 05:30 PM
Edit>>>>>>>>>......
Reply

Samiun
12-22-2009, 05:53 PM
No imam al mahdi isn't one of the 12 imams, we don't believe in the 12 imams bro as they do.

You can't take anything from shia bro because they have major differences to us. It's best not to believe anything they say cos they have their own hadith which is different to ours.

This is from their book called usool al kafi which is like our version of sahih al bukhari.



[1] The Imams have knowledge of All that was given to the angels and the prophets. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.255 )

[2] The Imams know when they will die, and they only die by their choice. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.258 )

[3] The Imams have knowledge of the past and future; and nothing is hidden from them. ( Al-Kafi vol.1 p.260 )

[4] "Bad'ah" ALLAH tells a lie. (Al Kafi, Vol. No.1, Page No. 148. A Shia doctrine.)

[5] We are the eyes of the God in his creature and the final authority in all human beings. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 145)

[6] The Hujjat (Ultimate proof) of God can not be established without Imam. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 177)

[7] "Obedience to `Ali is true humility and disobedience to him is disbelief in Allah" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.54)

[8] "Whoever sets up another Imam besides `Ali and delays `Ali's caliphate is a polytheist" (Al-Kafi vol.10 p.55)


[9] Sahabah (R.H) became infidel by denying the divine right (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. First three caliph and other Sahabas became infidel by denying the divine right of (Wilayat) of Hazrat Ali. (Al Kafi, Page No. 420)

COMMENT: These words declare Sahabahs all AhlSunnah as kufaar (Disbelievers) and Mushrikeen (Polytheists), because we -AhlSunnah- do not believe in the Shia Imamate of `Ali (which is believing that `Ali is Infallible,..etc ) also We -AhlSunnah- believe that Abubakr ® is the first caliphate, Omar ® the second and Othman ® the third, thus, We delay `Ali's caliphate to be the 4th after Abubakr, Omar and Othman, thus, Shia declare in their most reliable book that AhlSunnah are Kufaar and Mushrikeen !!!


[10] Imam posses more attribute than a Prophet posses. (Al-Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 388)

[11] All Imams are equal in rank and status to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 270)

12] The false verse "And We made `Ali your in-law" has been added to Surah Al-InShirah . ( Al-Kafi p.289 )

[15] No one possess complete knowledge of Holy Qur'an except Imams. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1, Page No. 228)

[16] Imam knows his hour of death and his death is in his control. (Al Kafi, Vol. No. 1,Page No. 258)

are you really gonna listen to some 1 who holds these beliefs?
Jazakhallah Khair brother, there is absolutely no way I can believe this statements because Allah S.W.T. will never try to lie as he is the All-Knowing-All-Caring...

And I just figure out that I'm a Sunni
Reply

Supreme
12-22-2009, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by squiggle
and some believe the Qur'an is incomplete and he's going to bring the missing parts of the Qur'an when he comes and reserect abu bakr, umar and uthmaan then hang them and whip them for taking bits away from the real qur'an. Be aware of them.
Heck, that's blasphemous.

From the small research I've done of Islam, isn't the Mahdi a Shia concept? Most people (if not all) on this site that profess Islam are Sunni.
Reply

جوري
12-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Al mahdi isn't a 'shia' concept, they may have their own spin on who and what he is, but he is very much awaited by all Muslims, and it is a known fact that when Jesus (P) descends he'll pray behind him.

I don't think you know very much about Islam..

all the best


ame of Questioner
Fatimah

Title
Authenticity of Hadiths Pertaining to Al-Mahdi

Question
Could you please tell me the Hadiths narrated concerning Al-Mahdi and their significance?

Date
12/May/2003

Topic
Afflictions & Portents of the Last Hour

Answer

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.


Dear questioner, we are greatly pleased to receive your question, which shows the confidence you place in us. May Allah reward you abundantly for your interest in knowing the teachings of Islam.

There were many Hadiths narrated concerning Al-Mahdi, ranging between being fabricated, weak, sound, and authentic. However, the authentic Hadiths narrated in that respect are very few. Contemplating over such Hadiths, Muslim jurisprudents concluded what should be believed in that regard: that is, the emergence of Al-Mahdi is a fact that should not be denied; he will be born before the end of this life and will grow up to fill the earth with justice as it has been filled with oppression. This does not require Muslims to wait anxiously for the emergence of Al-Mahdi because his emergence will not abrogate any ruling in the Islamic Shari`ah.

Accordingly, he who neglects fulfilling his duties, on the ground that he is waiting for Al-Mahdi to follow in his footsteps, has deviated from the straight path that Muslims are to follow.

Responding to the question, the prominent Saudi scholar Sheikh Salman Ibn Fahd Al-`Udah, states the following:

"More than one hundred Hadiths were narrated about Al-Mahdi. Those Hadiths ranged between being fabricated, weak, sound, and authentic; the authentic ones are very few.

Of such Hadiths are the following:

1. `Ali Ibn Abi Talib quoted the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as saying: “Al-Mahdi is one of us, the clan of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Allah will reform him in one night.” (Reported by Imam Ahmad and Ibn Maqah).

2. There were three Hadiths narrated on the authority of Abu Sa`id Al-Kudri (may Allah be pleased with him). Such Hadiths were reported by Al-Hakim; and some of them were reported by Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Maqah, Imam Ahmad, and others. Of these Hadiths, At-Tirmidhi reported that the Prophet said: “Al-Mahdi is from my Ummah; he will be born and live to rule five or seven or nine years. (If) one goes to him and says: ‘Give me (a charity), he will fill one’s garment with what one needs.’”

3. Abu Dawud also reported a Hadith about Al-Mahdi that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Al-Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead, a prominent nose. He will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.”

4. There is also the Hadith narrated by Thawban (may Allah be pleased with him) in which the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “If you see the black banners emerging from Khurasan, seek to join their supporters even if creeping, because among them will be caliph Al-Mahdi.” That Hadith was reported by Al-Hakim and Ahmad. But the chains of narration of that hadith were all unauthentic, though some Hadith scholars rendered it sound in general.

Some people stated that the aforementioned Hadith is cited to support that Al-Mahdi will emerge from among the Abbasid State. That Hadith might be fabricated altogether or its words might be distorted so as to support the Abbasid State.

Added to the above, I would like to say that there are Hadiths reported about Al-Mahdi that are true in general, but most of them do not reach the degree of authenticity. It may be only one of these Hadiths that is regarded authentic. Moreover, it is only a few of them that are considered sound, while most of them are weak.

Many scholars tackled the subject of Al-Mahdi, among whom was Na`im Ibn Hamad. He wrote about Al-Mahdi in his book Al-Fitan. Although Na`im was an Imam of Sunnah, Ad-Darqatani, Adh-Dhahabi and Ibn Hajar mentioned that there were some weak and fabricated Hadiths reported by him.

Others who wrote about Al-Mahdi are Abu Na`im Al-Asfahani and Yusuf Ibn Yahyah As-Salami, whose book is named “`Uqad Ad-Durar. Ibn Khaldun also wrote about that subject in his well-known book Al-Muqaddimah. He stated: “It is known among the majority of Muslims that Al-Mahdi is a fact.” He further stated that the majority of scholars and Imams emphasized the Hadiths reported about Al-Mahdi in general, though many of these Hadiths were controversial.

There are also many recent scholars who believed in the truthfulness of the Hadiths reported about Al-Mahdi in general.

However, some scholars denied all the Hadiths reported in that regard. Of those scholars was Mujahid, who claimed that Al-Mahdi would be Jesus, Son of Mary. In that respect, Ibn Maqah and Al-Hakim reported a weak Hadith to the effect that Al-Mahdi would be Jesus, Son of Mary.

Among the recent scholars who believe the Hadiths about Al-Mahdi in general are Sheikh Muhammad Rashid Rida, Sheikh `Abdullah bin Zayd Aal-Mahmud, Muhammad Muhi Ad-Din `Abdul-Hamid and others.

Muslims who are of Ahl-us Sunnah (mainstream Muslims) believe that a man of the Prophet’s clan will be born before the end of this world and lead an ordinary life as any other one; he may commit mistakes and will need to be reformed like any other one. Then Allah will choose him to reunite the Muslims and guide them to the right path.

This is all what should be believed about Al-Mahdi. There is no religious text to the effect that it is a religious duty to wait anxiously for him. Moreover, Muslims should not believe anyone claiming that he is Al-Mahdi unless there is clear evidence to that effect, as many people have claimed to be so.

Thus, Muslims are required not to hasten to believe anyone claiming to be Al-Mahdi; they are to investigate and make sure of such a thing.

There is no ruling in the Islamic Shari`ah that has to do with the emergence of Al-Mahdi. That is to say, Muslims are not to delay fulfilling religious duties like the congregational prayers or Jihad or applying penalties prescribed in Shari`ah, etc., until Al-Mahdi comes and guides them in that respect. Muslims are to lead their lives normally — worship Allah, go to work, reform their society, learn, teach, etc., and if Al-Mahdi appears and they make sure that he is truthful, they are to follow him. This was the attitude of the Companions and those who truly followed in their footsteps."

You can also read:

The Appearance of Mahdi

If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to write back!

May Allah guide you to the straight path, and guide you to that which pleases Him, Amen.



Allah Almighty knows best.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503546904
Reply

amirebi
12-22-2009, 06:30 PM
my brother Nabiel, salam.
i believe that one day in the future, somebody who is good and perfect will come and spread the justice and "Tohid" and all the good things, in the world. we believe that he is from islam( imam mahdi(puh)) and masih(puh) will come too. but there are many stories and sometimes even myths! about him. to me it's not important if he is in cave or alive or in sammera or medina or tehran or .... the thing which is important is " He Will Come" and on that they we muslims and all the true allah worshipers, will have the world full of justice and love, without sins and crimes, inshaallah.
and we shiaa believe that, we have to be good muslims untill imam mahdi appears, inshaallah... :)
Reply

Supreme
12-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Al mahdi isn't a 'shia' concept, they may have their own spin on who and what he is, but he is very much awaited by all Muslims, and it is a known fact that when Jesus (P) descends he'll pray behind him.
Ah, very well then.


I don't think you know very much about Islam..
Hence, why I joined this forum.
Reply

brotherubaid
12-22-2009, 07:33 PM
Brother Nabiel teh version of Imam mehdi u are talking about is the SHIA version.

They believe that Imam mehdi RAN AWAY , and he took with him a lot of stuff that the ummah could have used , Like the ORIGINAL QURAN ( claiming the one we have is not complete) HE TOOK WITH HIM THE STICK OF MOSES Alihi as sallam lol All sort of non sense , how can a sane person ever believe them.

Basically they say he ran away and he will come back , so lol he has been alive for about a thousand year , may be he is just hybernating or something.

But very clear Authentic ahadeeth do not say that , He will be a person Who Allah will guide , His name wont be mehdi , so dont anme ur kids mehdi hoping they will become mahdi , His name will be Muhamad Ibn Abdullah , Like the prophet sala lahu lihi wa salam told us that The mahdi's name will be similar to My Name and his Fathers name will be similar to my Fathers Name.

Get the facts , The wiki info seems to be the shia version of mahdi , They also have lots of crazy ideas about the mahdi , Khomeini claims in his book that he is the deputy mahdi and now mahdi will come soon and from amaong the things mahdi will do is he will dig the grave of abu baakr radi Allahu Anhu n Umer Radi Alahu Anhu and hang their bodies on a tree and burn them , ASTAGHFIRULLAH! and also that he will Dig out the Body of Aishah Radi Alahu Anha n punish her with lashes , the punishment of zina , ASTAGHFIRULLAH!!

IS THIS MAHDI OR DAJJAL . THE MEHDI THAT SHIA ARE WAITING FOR CAN ONLY BE A DAJJAL , n yeah He also claism that They will take the Black stone from the kaaba n place it in Koofa!!! Yes that mahdi for u

But as far as the Mahdi The Prophet sala lahu alihiwa sallam informed us about then he is free from all this non sense n this CRAP !!!



THE THING IS THAT THE PROPHET SALA LAHU ALIHI WA SALLAM HAS TOLD US MORE THAN ENOUGH ABOUT HIM, SO STICK TO THAT , GO PULL UP THE AHADITH AND READ THEM , WALLAHI ITS VERY CLEAR AND VERY SUFFICENT.

Check this brief talk by our brother Abu Uwais Rahimahullah , Its in english he was an american brother its not long , about 7 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufyKEFsE0M
Reply

Salahudeen
12-22-2009, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by brotherubaid
Brother Nabiel teh version of Imam mehdi u are talking about is the SHIA version.

They believe that Imam mehdi RAN AWAY , and he took with him a lot of stuff that the ummah could have used , Like the ORIGINAL QURAN ( claiming the one we have is not complete) HE TOOK WITH HIM THE STICK OF MOSES Alihi as sallam lol All sort of non sense , how can a sane person ever believe them.

Basically they say he ran away and he will come back , so lol he has been alive for about a thousand year , may be he is just hybernating or something.

But very clear Authentic ahadeeth do not say that , He will be a person Who Allah will guide , His name wont be mehdi , so dont anme ur kids mehdi hoping they will become mahdi , His name will be Muhamad Ibn Abdullah , Like the prophet sala lahu lihi wa salam told us that The mahdi's name will be similar to My Name and his Fathers name will be similar to my Fathers Name.

Get the facts , The wiki info seems to be the shia version of mahdi , They also have lots of crazy ideas about the mahdi , Khomeini claims in his book that he is the deputy mahdi and now mahdi will come soon and from amaong the things mahdi will do is he will dig the grave of abu baakr radi Allahu Anhu n Umer Radi Alahu Anhu and hang their bodies on a tree and burn them , ASTAGHFIRULLAH! and also that he will Dig out the Body of Aishah Radi Alahu Anha n punish her with lashes , the punishment of zina , ASTAGHFIRULLAH!!

IS THIS MAHDI OR DAJJAL . THE MEHDI THAT SHIA ARE WAITING FOR CAN ONLY BE A DAJJAL , n yeah He also claism that They will take the Black stone from the kaaba n place it in Koofa!!! Yes that mahdi for u

But as far as the Mahdi The Prophet sala lahu alihiwa sallam informed us about then he is free from all this non sense n this CRAP !!!


Check this brief talk by our brother Abu Uwais Rahimahullah , Its in english he was an american brother its not long , about 7 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufyKEFsE0M


what's so irritating is that Allah even cleared Ayesha of Zina in surah noor but they still accuse her of it :hmm:

and isn't it mentioned in our hadith that the dajaal will appear with the staff of Moses :p
Reply

brotherubaid
12-22-2009, 07:39 PM
By the way Muslim did not have 11 khalifas so far , the khilafah lasted only till Ali , so four or five Khalifas if u include the Khilafa of Hussain Radi Alahu Anhu, so soon as one says the 12th Imam or 12th khalifa he ends up on the shia believe of Imams n khalifas
Reply

Samiun
12-23-2009, 05:55 AM
The concept of Shia and Sunni is unknown to me until I read the forums.

Why did the Shi'a make such untruthful statements? :( I can only hope for Imam Al-Mahdi to come and once bring truth and justice to them and to the world.

The Sea Of Galilee is drying up brothers and sisters sooner or later Imam Al-Mahdi will appear and Dajjal too will appear.Subhanallah, may Allah S.W.T. guide us all
Reply

Salahudeen
12-23-2009, 04:18 PM
Originally they never held those kufr beliefs, they were Muslim's at the beginning as they held the beliefs that we do,

when the division happened the shia were just like another political party but their beliefs were exactly the same, it's as the years passed that all the other stuff got introduced into it.

At the begining they were exactly the same but they just held the view that the prophets family should have the calipha but later on the concept of 12 imams was introduced and all the other stuff.

and also within Shia'ism they have sects, there are some shia's who are closer to sunni's and there are some who are miles away like the Rafida Shia.

but if you talk to Shia's many of them are not actually aware of what the beliefs of Shia'ism is, you have ignorant Shia's who have no idea they just wear the label of Shia but they don't know what's in it. that's why you can't go round calling every Shia a kafar because they could be ignorant of what Shia'ism is. But the beliefs of Shiaism are kufar beliefs.

and if a person openly professes those beliefs like Khomeini then it's obvious since they hold those kufar beliefs.
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