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paradise88
12-24-2009, 07:29 PM
Salaam readers..

I haven't been on here for aaages so apologies if this has been discussed!


I have noticed how alot of muslims are celebrating christmas, decorations, tree, turkey, presents etc.. Even though most people who celebrate christmas aren't christians is it right to celebrate christmas?? To be honest i dont even understand the whole concept of christmas.

I text someone saying happy new year as according to islamic calender and i got a 'merry xmas' reply. Most of us have no idea that its the first month of islamic calender. I just pray Allah guides us to the right path and brings us back to our religion!
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KittenLover
12-24-2009, 07:37 PM
No it's not right cos christmas is a pagan celebration it has nothing to do with the birth of Jesus.

and the only celebrations in Islam are the two Eids, we don't have mothersday or fathers day.

In Islam every day is a mothersday and fathersday.

we only celebrate that which was celebrated by the prophet pbuh and his sahabba, they never celebrated birthdays or halloween or christmas.
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Woodrow
12-24-2009, 07:54 PM
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25

It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.

I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.
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Donia
12-24-2009, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25

It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.

I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.
I agree completely and I could not have said it better. Christmas has very little to do with religion nowadays in my humble opinion.
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paradise88
12-24-2009, 08:28 PM
All about presents! Its so annoying cos i have to work extra hours lol i find it funny.. I think i heard in the bible it says putting up trees is disliked and its pagan
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Muezzin
12-24-2009, 08:48 PM
I don't know any Muslims who celebrate Christmas. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm hopelessly naive.

Muslims shouldn't really be putting up Christmas decorations and the like.











At any rate:

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Beardo
12-24-2009, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I don't know any Muslims who celebrate Christmas. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm hopelessly naive.

Muslims shouldn't really be putting up Christmas decorations and the like.











At any rate:


So much for Santa, ay?
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paradise88
12-24-2009, 09:05 PM
Trust me they do Muezzin.. I've seen with my own eyes yday.. I was like shocked! Had a stocking thing next to their beds for santa lol
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Supreme
12-24-2009, 09:07 PM
Even though Christmas is a pagan celebration, I can't help but feel that celebrating it won't do much harm. I'll be sure to attend church tomorrow, and I'll remember the core values of Christmas- family, fun and Jesus- and what can the harm possibly be in that?
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Woodrow
12-24-2009, 09:08 PM
the Christmas tree is a fairly new tradition and did not become common until 1841.

The Christmas Tree: The Christmas tree, which is an evergreen with it's boughs stretched toward heaven, reminds us of the everlasting life that Christ came to bring sinners. The candles or lights on the tree remind us that Jesus is the light of the world.

This surely is what Martin Luther envisioned back in 1535 when he cut and decorated the first Christmas tree for his children. Prince Albert carried the Christmas tree custom from Germany to Windsor Castle in 1841.
SOURCE: http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/refl...egends_1327169

When I was a kid in the 1940's, and a Catholic, at least in the Docise of Hartford, the Catholic Churches were forbidden to have one in the Church and we were discouraged from having them in our homes, because of their connection with Martin Luther.

The Dollar bill seems to have become more important than religion to some people.

If people were to be honest and stop calling Christmas a religious holiday, at least they would not be hypocrites that profess religious belief by sinning and calling it celebrating the Birth of Eesa(as).
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Grace Seeker
12-25-2009, 07:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25

It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.

I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.

I disagree that Christmas was NOT a major Christian celebration until the 1800s. A quick check of the dates of some of the most popular hymns associated with Christmas pretty much proves my point:
1744 -- Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus
1743 -- O Come, All Ye Faithful
1734 -- Hark! The Herald Angels Sing
1719 -- Joy to the World
1700 -- While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks
18th century -- He Is Born (Il Est Ne)
1642 -- Lift Up Your Heads, Ye Mighty Gates
1641 -- Break Forth, O Beauteous Heavenly Light
17th century -- Sing We Now Of Christmas
17th century -- The First Noel
1599 -- O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright
1582 -- On This Day Earth Shall Ring
1523 -- Savior of the Nations, Come
16th century -- Away in a Manger
16th century -- What Child Is This
15th century -- Lo, How a Rose E'er Blooming
14th century -- Good Christian Men, Rejoice
12th centruy -- The Friendly Beasts
9th century -- O Come, O Come Emmanuel

Now of course there are carols written in the 1800s and later, and there is one rather famous carol from the 1800s, Silent Night (1818), but those who know the story of its origin would hardly equate it with the commercialization of Christmas.

I agree that the turning of Christmas into a secular holiday is a travesty, but I blame that more on Coca Cola than on Christians (not that some of us haven't been complicit in it). And I despise what they did in turning a truly saintly man, good old Bishop Nicholas of Myra, into Santa Claus -- absolutely horric.

But, as far as the rumors that it was a pagan holiday, I suggest that there is a big difference in taking over a pagan date on the calendar and claiming that it is a pagan celebration. What we are celebrating is most definitely not pagan, but a challenge to the pagan world that all of their gods are but fakes and parodies of the one true God who has come into the world and not only made himself known to us in the person of Jesus, but who has come to redeem the world from the fallennes of these pagan celebrations and reconcile it back to God.

Proclaim the good news -- Immanuel -- God is with us!!
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Woodrow
12-25-2009, 02:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I disagree that Christmas was NOT a major Christian celebration until the 1800s. A quick check of the dates of some of the most popular hymns associated with Christmas pretty much proves my point:
1744 -- Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus
1743 -- O Come, All Ye Faithful
1734 -- Hark! The Herald Angels Sing
1719 -- Joy to the World
1700 -- While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks
18th century -- He Is Born (Il Est Ne)
1642 -- Lift Up Your Heads, Ye Mighty Gates
1641 -- Break Forth, O Beauteous Heavenly Light
17th century -- Sing We Now Of Christmas
17th century -- The First Noel
1599 -- O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright
1582 -- On This Day Earth Shall Ring
1523 -- Savior of the Nations, Come
16th century -- Away in a Manger
16th century -- What Child Is This
15th century -- Lo, How a Rose E'er Blooming
14th century -- Good Christian Men, Rejoice
12th centruy -- The Friendly Beasts
9th century -- O Come, O Come Emmanuel

Now of course there are carols written in the 1800s and later, and there is one rather famous carol from the 1800s, Silent Night (1818), but those who know the story of its origin would hardly equate it with the commercialization of Christmas.

I agree that the turning of Christmas into a secular holiday is a travesty, but I blame that more on Coca Cola than on Christians (not that some of us haven't been complicit in it). And I despise what they did in turning a truly saintly man, good old Bishop Nicholas of Myra, into Santa Claus -- absolutely horric.

But, as far as the rumors that it was a pagan holiday, I suggest that there is a big difference in taking over a pagan date on the calendar and claiming that it is a pagan celebration. What we are celebrating is most definitely not pagan, but a challenge to the pagan world that all of their gods are but fakes and parodies of the one true God who has come into the world and not only made himself known to us in the person of Jesus, but who has come to redeem the world from the fallennes of these pagan celebrations and reconcile it back to God.

Proclaim the good news -- Immanuel -- God is with us!!
Peace Gene,

You are quite correct about the dates of those Hymns and that does indicate it was an important Holiday to Christians as early as the 8th/9th Centuries. Now to go back and stir up my memory as to what I was being taught as a kid. Then again I was in the Diocese (Just noticed I butchered the spelling in my earlier post) of Hartford and at that time the Diocese was predominatly Polish/Lithuanian/Ukrainian and Letish. when I was a kid I thought every priest's last name ended in either ski or kas. Even in the 1940s more emphasis was placed on Easter and Christmas was more of a prelude to Easter.

So, I will amend my post and Say that Christmas was a minor holiday to some Catholics.
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Donia
12-25-2009, 03:12 PM
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.

One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
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Blackpool
12-25-2009, 03:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.

One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
So it bloody well should. Christmas has been in our schools since I was a toddler. At primary school I did plays every year of the 3 wise men, the virgin mary, the birth of Jesus etc. It's not a new thing. At every assembly we were made to pray before lessons.

At Christmas I don't go over the top. I spend alot of time with my family, have Christmas dinner, pull a cracker etc but I dont spend much on gifts. For me the most important part is spending time with my family. My mother is taking my little sisters to church and I'm absolutely sure I'll end up going.
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Snowflake
12-25-2009, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Even though Christmas is a pagan celebration, I can't help but feel that celebrating it won't do much harm. I'll be sure to attend church tomorrow, and I'll remember the core values of Christmas- family, fun and Jesus- and what can the harm possibly be in that?
Do you ever consider that if Jesus (peace be upon him) thought it was ok to indulge in a bit of paganism now and then, he wouldn't have suffered in bringing the divine message which rejected paganism/idolatry. It's when you think there is no harm in being a bit liberal in religion that you deviate from the true teachings - as it has already happened to all previous religions except islam. What's more, I don't think Christians need pagan trends to honour family values, do they? And, I don't see how Jesus would ever like his followers to make their own rules about what is harmless and what is not - especially since (according to Christians) he died upholding the Word of God. May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him. :cry:


Peace.
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Grace Seeker
12-25-2009, 08:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.

One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
I'm with you on this, though it is nothing new. 20 years ago, my daughter was forced to participate in a "Christmas" party in Kindergarten where they brought out a man dressed in costume and told all of the little kids it was Santa Claus and then forced them to sit on his knee. Well, we always taught our kids that Christmas had to do with Jesus the Christ, not some pagan fat man. But here the school was telling her that she "had to believe" in Santa, that "everyone believe in Santa" -- that was what she reported to me when she got home, very upset by the experience.

Interesting thing about the local ACLU, I actually called them to see if they would help me get protection for my daughter from this public establishment of a Santa religion and they didn't care "because Santa wasn't real." Does that mean that the ACLU believes that God is real since they do object to anything that talks about God?

The good news is that my daughter wasn't scarred by the experience. And the next year I joined the PTA to make sure that whatever parties the school threw (and I don't object to them throwing various holiday parties) were done with a little more sensitivity.
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جوري
12-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Christmas is a useless pagan holiday no different than 'st. valentine's day, imposed on folks to rob them of their hard earned money on useless junk from china under the false pretenses of good will and peace toward man of course good will means to bomb others while praising the lawd. And yes in the work place they impose 'secret santas' and other such BS that if you opt out you'll clearly be labeled..

and yes it is slowly creeping into the Muslim world, I have no idea why my cousin for instance would be sending me an xmas card, of course I didn't lash out at him but we let my uncle know that this is unacceptable. I am disgusted by this endless charade .. there is nothing holy about this holiday and I am not quite sure what they are celebrating? they are celebrating that god left the universe behind to be born and suckle?

It is so absurd, made even more absurd by Muslims recognizing it or even taking part of it under duress be it in the work place or whatever.

:w:
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Donia
12-25-2009, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I'm with you on this, though it is nothing new. 20 years ago, my daughter was forced to participate in a "Christmas" party in Kindergarten where they brought out a man dressed in costume and told all of the little kids it was Santa Claus and then forced them to sit on his knee. Well, we always taught our kids that Christmas had to do with Jesus the Christ, not some pagan fat man. But here the school was telling her that she "had to believe" in Santa, that "everyone believe in Santa" -- that was what she reported to me when she got home, very upset by the experience.

Interesting thing about the local ACLU, I actually called them to see if they would help me get protection for my daughter from this public establishment of a Santa religion and they didn't care "because Santa wasn't real." Does that mean that the ACLU believes that God is real since they do object to anything that talks about God?

The good news is that my daughter wasn't scarred by the experience. And the next year I joined the PTA to make sure that whatever parties the school threw (and I don't object to them throwing various holiday parties) were done with a little more sensitivity.
Wow.. That is a bit over the top to bring Santa to school. I can honestly say I haven't seen that one yet.
I have seen where some schools have a "winter" party and that is very nice in my opinion. There are children who celebrate all different kinds of holidays and for one particular holiday to be acknowledged and theirs not can be confusing and downright hurtful. Little kids are sensitive.
I haven't seen the holidays decorated with "Eid Mubarak" or "Happy Hanukah". I would even think it would be okay to just put up something that says "Happy Holidays"... but just straight "Merry Christmas".. I don't agree with that. Again, just my humble opinion.
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Donia
12-25-2009, 08:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
So it bloody well should. Christmas has been in our schools since I was a toddler. At primary school I did plays every year of the 3 wise men, the virgin mary, the birth of Jesus etc. It's not a new thing. At every assembly we were made to pray before lessons.

At Christmas I don't go over the top. I spend alot of time with my family, have Christmas dinner, pull a cracker etc but I dont spend much on gifts. For me the most important part is spending time with my family. My mother is taking my little sisters to church and I'm absolutely sure I'll end up going.
In my opinion, it shouldn't.

No religious holidays should be discussed in public schools unless they are prepared to discuss all of them and I don't really think they want to go there. It may have been celebrated for awhile (in your personal experience and others) but that doesn't mean it should.
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Grace Seeker
12-25-2009, 08:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
I haven't seen the holidays decorated with "Eid Mubarak" or "Happy Hanukah". I would even think it would be okay to just put up something that says "Happy Holidays"... but just straight "Merry Christmas".. I don't agree with that. Again, just my humble opinion.
I don't mind decorations that say "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukah" or "Eid Mubarak", so I'm not arguing for a generic "Happy Holidays" as the only thing it is acceptable for people to say. But making a 5 year old sit on a strange man's knee and telling her that she "must believe" to participate in the ongoing party, that wouldn't be tolerated any place else in society, but we give Santa a free pass on this at malls (and apparently at some schools as well) every year.

Again, I don't think Santa has anything to do with a genuine celebration of Christmas. It's a cultural phenomena that is a perversion of what Christmas is really celebrating. I think the real Saint Nicholas (Bishop of Myra) would be aghast at what has become commonly done in his name.
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Woodrow
12-25-2009, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I don't mind decorations that say "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukah" or "Eid Mubarak", so I'm not arguing for a generic "Happy Holidays" as the only thing it is acceptable for people to say. But making a 5 year old sit on a strange man's knee and telling her that she "must believe" to participate in the ongoing party, that wouldn't be tolerated any place else in society, but we give Santa a free pass on this at malls (and apparently at some schools as well) every year.

Again, I don't think Santa has anything to do with a genuine celebration of Christmas. It's a cultural phenomena that is a perversion of what Christmas is really celebrating. I think the real Saint Nicholas (Bishop of Myra) would be aghast at what has become commonly done in his name.
I agree that Nicholas would probably be upset if he knew what people have done to his name. Somebody at Coca Cola had to have had a very active mind to corrupt him in the manner he was corrupted.
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 08:44 PM
Christmas is not a pagan holiday.

Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)

BUt i will agree it has become more of a celebration of gift giving and trees, and a fat guy that supposedly fit down a chimney:hmm:

My family nor my wife celebrates Christmas like the others. We only recognise the birth of Christ. Like it is supposed to be.:D

And another was right. The Bible tells us "The Nativity" and tells us nothing of "Trees" and Santa.

The gifts are supposed to represent the gifts brought to Jesus at birth from the 3 wise men.......but I am sure he didn't get an I-phone or a wii. Like many believe your supposed to do now.

Tree is supposed to represent........I don't know?

Santa just represents a dude who many many years ago brought gifts to children who wouldn't get any.......But we don't recognise him as anything more than a story.

I have actually talked to people who don't even know the "Nativity" story how it is told in the Bibleimsad.......but they celebrate Christmas?:hmm:

I will never fall for the "politicaly correct" way by saying Happy Holidays or X-mas.....I say Merry Christmas, or Have a blessed Christmas.

I know that Muslims don't recognise this so I don't say it to them (why would i) to me saying this to a Muslim is like a slap in the face. So why do it?

I will however say Happy Eid to my Muslim buddies....It brings a smile to their face when they here me say that:D.....and I love to see all people smile! No matter what they believe, I love all my brothers and sisters in humanity. (i even found Eid Murubak cards for them) They are so suprised(but happy) when i send them to them. I even fasted at the same time Mohammad did.

God bless!
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Uthman
12-25-2009, 08:49 PM
From Ustādh Abu Eesa Niamatullah's blog:

An Important Reminder Concerning the Christmas Period 2009
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Blackpool
12-25-2009, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
In my opinion, it shouldn't.

No religious holidays should be discussed in public schools unless they are prepared to discuss all of them and I don't really think they want to go there. It may have been celebrated for awhile (in your personal experience and others) but that doesn't mean it should.
Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...
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جوري
12-25-2009, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
Christmas is not a pagan holiday.
I beg to differ it is a pagan holiday.. Jesus (p) was born in the early fall.

18:23 And [when] the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree,17 she exclaimed: "Oh, would that I had died ere this, and had become a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!"

24 Thereupon [a voice] called out to her from beneath that [palm-tree]:18 "Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet [running] beneath thee;

25 and shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards thee: it will drop fresh, ripe dates upon thee.

26 Eat, then, and drink, and let shine eye be gladdened! And if thou shouldst see any human being, convey this unto him:19 'Behold, abstinence from speech have I vowed unto the Most Gracious; hence, I may not speak today to any mortal.'"20


Dates burgeon forth during the early fall in the region where Jesus (p) was born, thus, I don't know where the 25th of December came from!

Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)
Neither God nor Jesus asked you to take his birth for a celebration!
BUt i will agree it has become more of a celebration of gift giving and trees, and a fat guy that supposedly fit down a chimney:hmm:
imposing gift giving on people seems ungodly to me.. giving gifts should come from the heart and for no reason, but one shouldn't be made to be tormented buying worthless junk!
My family nor my wife celebrates Christmas like the others. We only recognise the birth of Christ. Like it is supposed to be.:D
celebrating the birth of Christ or Moses, or Aaron or Mohammed (PBUT) is an innovation, a man-made absurdity!

And another was right. The Bible tells us "The Nativity" and tells us nothing of "Trees" and Santa.

The gifts are supposed to represent the gifts brought to Jesus at birth from the 3 wise men.......but I am sure he didn't get an I-phone or a wii. Like many believe your supposed to do now.
It makes you wonder where all this nonsense of trees and velvet clad men came from!



I know that Muslims don't recognise this so I don't say it to them (why would i) to me saying this to a Muslim is like a slap in the face. So why do it?
There is no slap in the face to a Muslim, I think save to have to pay for useless junk as if in agreement and encouragement!

I will however say Happy Eid to my Muslim buddies....It brings a smile to their face when they here me say that:D.....and I love to see all people smile! No matter what they believe, I love all my brothers and sisters in humanity. (i even found Eid Murubak cards for them) They are so suprised(but happy) when i send them to them. I even fasted at the same time Mohammad did.

God bless!
Eid is a celebration of the soul, a celebration of abundance and sacrifice.. there is no imposition of fairy tales of white men in velvet suits or birth of Gods.. one is a celebration of ending the fast, whereby one shares the most difficult and human aspects shared by the majority of those living below the poverty line, i.e 70% of humanity and in celebration of having felt their condition one concludes it by giving zakat.. there is nothing insular or parochial about it, it is a share of the human condition, and the other is a celebration of God's tests, triumph and endurance over Satan..
All in all, Muslims don't brain wash folks begging for gifts and wasting money on nonsense when folks really are hungry and in need of food another wastes maybe a total of $2.00 on a bandanna (she brought my sister) because she thought it was Jesus like since she wears a veil than a bandanna will be a welcome gift? I don't know, but I think folks need to reflect long and deep on why they truly celebrate this holiday.. what their expectations are of others, and how what they do is being viewed by others..
I personally found a bandanna offensive that I grabbed it out of her hands and threw it out on the highway!

all the best
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 09:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I beg to differ it is a pagan holiday.. Jesus (p) was born in the early fall.

18:23 And [when] the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree,17 she exclaimed: "Oh, would that I had died ere this, and had become a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!"

24 Thereupon [a voice] called out to her from beneath that [palm-tree]:18 "Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet [running] beneath thee;

25 and shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards thee: it will drop fresh, ripe dates upon thee.

26 Eat, then, and drink, and let shine eye be gladdened! And if thou shouldst see any human being, convey this unto him:19 'Behold, abstinence from speech have I vowed unto the Most Gracious; hence, I may not speak today to any mortal.'"20


Dates burgeon forth during the early fall in the region where Jesus (p) was born, thus, I don't know where the 25th of December came from!

Neither God nor Jesus asked you to take his birth for a celebration!
imposing gift giving on people seems ungodly to me.. giving gifts should come from the heart and for no reason, but one shouldn't be made to be tormented buying worthless junk!
celebrating the birth of Christ or Moses, or Aaron or Mohammed (PBUT) is an innovation, a man-made absurdity!

It makes you wonder where all this nonsense of trees and velvet clad men came from!



There is no slap in the face to a Muslim, I think save to have to pay for useless junk as if in agreement and encouragement!

Eid is a celebration of the soul, a celebration of abundance and sacrifice.. there is no imposition of fairy tales of white men in velvet suits or birth of Gods.. one is a celebration of ending the fast, whereby one shares the most difficult and human aspects shared by the majority of those living below the poverty line, i.e 70% of humanity and in celebration of having felt their condition one concludes it by giving zakat.. there is nothing insular or parochial about it, it is a share of the human condition, and the other is a celebration of God's tests, triumph and endurance over Satan..
All in all, Muslims don't brain wash folks begging for gifts and wasting money on nonsense when folks really are hungry and in need of food another wastes maybe a total of $2.00 on a bandanna (she brought my sister) because she thought it was Jesus like since she wears a veil than a bandanna will be a welcome gift? I don't know, but I think folks need to reflect long and deep on why they truly celebrate this holiday.. what their expectations are of others, and how what they do is being viewed by others..
I personally found a bandanna offensive that I grabbed it out of her hands and threw it out on the highway!

all the best


oweeeeeeeeee.
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sister herb
12-25-2009, 09:50 PM
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?

Friday, December 25, 2009


Thousands of people have crowded into the Palestinian town of Bethlehem to take part in Christmas celebrations.

Pilgrims and Palestinians gathered on Thursday outside the Church of the Nativity, built at the spot where Jesus is believed to have been born.

Live rock music mingled with traditional carols on bagpipes in Manger Square outside, bringing some rare festive spirit to the Palestinian town.

Earlier, a carnival-like atmosphere prevailed in the town as merchants hawked balloon animals, cotton candy, steamed corn and strong, black coffee poured from traditional copper urns.

Inside the church, monks chanted as pilgrims quietly waited in line to pray.

"This is the place where God gave us his son, so it is very special for me to be here, for me and my whole community," said Juan Cruz, 27, from Mexico.

"It's safe, it's warm, it's a happy time. It's good for visitors to see the good things too," said 16 year-old Bethlehem resident Reem Mohammad.

Calls for prayers

The celebrations culminated with midnight mass in the adjoining St Catherine's church, where the leading Roman Catholic cleric in the Holy Land called on the faithful to pray for peace in the troubled region.

"I address myself to all believers throughout the world, and I urge them to pray for this Holy Land. It is a land that suffers and that hopes," Fuad Twal, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, said.

He said true peace would not come to the Holy Land until Israelis and Palestinians treat each other with respect.

"Its inhabitants are brothers who see each other as enemies," he told the gathering that included Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president.

"This land will deserve to be called holy when she breathes freedom, justice, love, reconciliation, peace and security."

The celebrations cap a year when tourists returned to the town in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, in numbers unseen since the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian violence at the turn of the century.

Khulud Duaibess, the Palestinian tourism minister, said more than 1.6 million people have visited Bethlehem this year, 15,000 pilgrims for Christmas alone.

In 2008, one million tourists visited the town.

Shadow of the wall

However, the tourism boom has not brought prosperity to Bethlehem, with most tourists whisked in for the day from hotels in Israel, Duaibess said.

"Only five per cent of the money stays on the Palestinian side," she said.

Mitri Raheb, a Lutheran pastor in Bethlehem, told Al Jazeera that visitors to the town do not stay for long because of the Israeli occupation, and that has hurt the economy.

The Christmas celebrations have provided only a respite from the shadow of the wall lurking over the entrance to the West Bank town, part of Israel's controversial separation wall.

The eight-metre high concrete barrier that separates Bethlehem from Jerusalem - part of the projected 700km West Bank barrier, is aimed at stopping attacks from Palestinian fighters, Israel says.

Palestinian residents and rights groups call it an "apartheid wall" that cuts them off from much of their land and hampers tourism, trade and freedom of movement.

As Raheb said, for Palestinians, it is "very hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel".

[url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/12/2009122501455589763.html

r3053344446?x400&ampy288&ampq85&ampsigEfQ MhEpoHyXL7l17bSY3g   -
Palestinian children stand in line in front of a priest holding an effigy of "baby Jesus" during Christmas eve mass in Gaza's Der Latin church December 24, 2009. Less than 100 Gazans gathered in the church to take part in the celebrations.
REUTERS/Yannis Behrakis

r3402080712?x400&ampy266&ampq85&ampsigaa8Vtv9h8RbOEUTvq 1cw   -
A Palestinian child dressed as Santa Claus sits on his father's shoulders at Manger Square outside the Church of the Nativity, the site revered as the birthplace of Jesus, in the West Bank town of Bethlehem on Christmas Eve December 24, 2009. Thousands of Christians crowded into Bethlehem on an unseasonably warm Thursday evening, before celebrating Christmas midnight mass in the Church of the Nativity at the birthplace of Jesus.
REUTERS/Ammar Awad

capt0734b77b47154f96ab6a6654f211ad3cmideast israel palestinians christmas jrl131?x400&ampy266&ampq85&ampsiguhtfHEppCQnfZwvkoEMAA   -
Palestinian Christians celebrate Christmas near a church in the West Bank town of Nablus, Thursday, Dec. 24, 2009.
(AP Photo/Nasser Ishtayeh)

capt7de1f9d8096a4c6abdac2f6f6299fad7mideast israel palestinians christmas jrl115?x248&ampy345&ampq85&ampsigKghWZbYT7NUtGXKxm664dQ   -
Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, center, waves to the press before entering the Church of Nativity, traditionally believed by Christians to be the birthplace of Jesus Christ, before beginning Christmas celebrations in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Thursday, Dec. 24, 2009. The top Roman Catholic cleric in the Holy Land delivered Christmas wishes Thursday for peace in the Middle East - and prayed for the day when Palestinians would no longer be confined by Israeli barriers. Twal began Christmas celebrations with an annual procession from Jerusalem to the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Jesus' traditional birthplace.
(AP Photo/ Nasser Shiyoukhi)

captc0701d8fa4184b73971e6b49920277bamideast israel palestinians christmas jrl116?x400&ampy274&ampq85&ampsiguxGX645 v7k3G68RA3WcaA   -
A Palestinian boy looks at a Baby Jesus inside the Church of Nativity, traditionally believed by Christians to be the birthplace of Jesus Christ, in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Thursday, Dec. 24, 2009. The top Roman Catholic cleric in the cradle of Christianity delivered Christmas wishes Thursday for the peace that has eluded the Middle East, and prayed for the day when Palestinians would no longer be confined by Israeli barriers.
(AP Photo/ Nasser Shiyoukhi)

capt0b2303f0b1304223ac916eba060c7d52mideast israel palestinians christmas jrl111?x400&ampy266&ampq85&ampsigktgUcZ xPVLv763U56leQ   -
Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, center, stops next to a section of Israel's separation barrier between the West Bank town of Bethlehem and Jerusalem on his way to the Church of Nativity, Thursday, Dec. 24, 2009. The top Roman Catholic cleric in the Holy Land delivered Christmas wishes Thursday for peace in the Middle East — and prayed for the day when Palestinians would no longer be confined by Israeli barriers. Latin Patriarch Fouad Twal began Christmas celebrations with an annual procession from Jerusalem to the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Jesus' traditional birthplace.
(AP Photo/Dan Balilty)

capta2f1c7f15537424284586c2373f0a644mideast israel palestinians jrl129?x400&ampy287&ampq85&ampsigGmYQqsyZmlFF26HFHEKDQ   -
Palestinians gather around a Christmas Tree during a ceremony in the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009.
(AP Photo/Dan Balilty)

capt6398bfb6bd0b45dc8ba48d8b8fc55abfmideast israel palestinians jrl130?x400&ampy275&ampq85&ampsigkSxOMI7Plpn2qsY0408g   -
A Palestinian man dressed as Santa Clause stands next to Israeli border police during a pre-Christmas fair held next to a house inhabited by Jewish settlers in the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009.
(AP Photo/Dan Balilty)

capt9f15c590c2af4c25928828aaa60501e8mideast christmas jrl126?x400&ampy265&ampq85&ampsig fHzFmDyZJSsruIV3DHODg   -
Palestinian youths visit the Church of Nativity, traditionally believed to be the birthplace of Jesus Christ in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009. In 2009, some 2 million tourists visited the Palestinian territories, or four times the 2007 figure, and 80 percent came to Bethlehem, said the Palestinian tourism minister, Khuloud Deibes.
(AP Photo/Nasser Shiyoukhi)
Photo Tools

captd1529caffba645e889418be8bd5a576fmideast christmas jrl121?x400&ampy266&ampq85&ampsigRqh4O3kAeTg5ScCsoM9Pcg   -
Tourists pose for a photo near Israel's separation barrier in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009. In 2009, some 2 million tourists visited the Palestinian territories, or four times the 2007 figure, and 80 percent came to Bethlehem, said the Palestinian tourism minister, Khuloud Deibes.
(AP Photo/Nasser Shiyoukhi)
Reply

sister herb
12-25-2009, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)
We muslims don´t celebrate births of any Prothet, not Jesus neither Muhammad. Thats why we don´t undrstand Chirstmas of Christians.
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 10:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?
This is beautiful to see!:D:D:D
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 10:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
We muslims don´t celebrate births of any Prothet, not Jesus neither Muhammad. Thats why we don´t undrstand Chirstmas of Christians.
Okay, I understand sister Harb, I don't mean any offense to anyone here.:D

I could explain it if need be. but do you want to hear it? It's okay if you don't I still understand. Nobody here has forced anything on me, I wouldn't as well:D

God be with you.
Reply

sister herb
12-25-2009, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
This is beautiful to see!:D:D:D
Nice if I made you happy by those pictures.

:statisfie

Happy Holiday to you.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 10:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...
Then why don't teachers in these schools tell children the real truth about the true origins of Christmas rather than feeding them fantasy? Don't the children have a right to know how and where Christmas really originated from?

Christmas as well as everything related to it has all come from roman pagan beliefs mainly from the roman pagan festival of Saturnalia. Christian scholars have confirmed this and it is a well known fact.

The Christmas tree came from Pagans who had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.


The Origin of Mistletoe came from Norse mythology which recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under” the mistletoe is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

The giving of Christmas Presents originated in pre-Christian Rome where the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

'Santa' was derived from a man named Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament.

In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

It is also believed that Christmas' date was chosen to take advantage of the imperial holiday of the birth of the Sun God Mithras and the pagan festival of Saturnalia which was thought to have been taken over by Christians leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

One should always look properly into the origins of any festival or celebration because knowledge is the key to clarification on any matter and without it we will remain lost and confused.
Reply

sister herb
12-25-2009, 10:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
Okay, I understand sister Harb, I don't mean any offense to anyone here.:D

I could explain it if need be. but do you want to hear it? It's okay if you don't I still understand. Nobody here has forced anything on me, I wouldn't as well:D

God be with you.
You are welcome to explain if you like.

I openminded to learn more how others are thinkin and believe.

:p
Reply

Blackpool
12-25-2009, 10:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza81
Then why don't teachers in these schools tell children the real truth about the true origins of Christmas rather than feeding them fantasy? Don't the children have a right to know how and where Christmas really originated from?

Christmas as well as everything related to it has all come from roman pagan beliefs mainly from the roman pagan festival of Saturnalia. Christian scholars have confirmed this and it is a well known fact.

The Christmas tree came from Pagans who had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.
tree worship

The Origin of Mistletoe came from Norse mythology which recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under” the mistletoe is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

The giving of Christmas Presents originated in pre-Christian Rome where the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

'Santa' was derived from a man named Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament.

In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

It is also believed that Christmas' date was chosen to take advantage of the imperial holiday of the birth of the Sun God Mithras and the pagan festival of Saturnalia which was thought to have been taken over by Christians leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

One should always look properly into the origins of any festival or celebration because knowledge is the key to clarification on any matter and without it we will remain lost and confused.
I wasn't once taught about the Christmas tree, santa clause, mistletoe at school. As every Christmas approached at school we were asked to return at about 7:30pm to participate in a play whilst our parents watched. It was the story of the birth of Jesus Christ. This is the teaching that I'm in favour of however, I'm not aware of how children are being taught today. It was my parents that played along with the Santa Clause and for me brought the best memories of my childhood.
Reply

Supreme
12-25-2009, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?
Those pictures are very much appreciated sister. Any more, especially featuring the church of the Nativity, would be lovely.
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Those pictures are very much appreciated sister. Any more, especially featuring the church of the Nativity, would be lovely.
I agree as well! That was beautful.:D
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
You are welcome to explain if you like.

I openminded to learn more how others are thinkin and believe.

:p
No problem sister, I will get on that asap.:D

I am starting my prayer and will not be finished untill midnight (about 6 hours) so forgive me if it is to be posted sometime tomorrow.

God bless.
Reply

Supreme
12-25-2009, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
I agree as well! That was beautful.:D
You ever been there mate? I don't think us Protestants have a share in the church. It's divided by the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches. I'd love to go and experience Christmas in Bethlehem though. The sheer magic of the place...
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
You ever been there mate? I don't think us Protestants have a share in the church. It's divided by the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches. I'd love to go and experience Christmas in Bethlehem though. The sheer magic of the place...
No but my wife and her family went the year before I met her, She said it was a life changing expeirence, She also said it was the most awesome place she had ever been.

I used to be Roman Catholic and we went to a E, Orthodox Christmas service once........14 HUORS, let me say that again.....14 HOURRRRRRRRSSSSS! My legs were killing me, no sitting down.

They said it was the same in Bethlahem.;D

We are planning a trip to Italy. Greece, Turkey...then Egypt, Syria, Isriael and a couple others. It will take approx 3 months, and we end up back in Italy to see some family....They want to meet my wife:D I haven't been.

Being in Bethlehem for Christmas would be an awesome experience!

Come on lets go brother:D

God bless.
Reply

Donia
12-26-2009, 04:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...
With all due respect,

Eid and Islamic traditions should be discussed in ISLAMIC public schools. The key word here being "islamic".
Just as Catholic holidays and traditions should be discussed in Catholic public schools if there is such a thing.
As far as just a traditional public school, I don't think any religious holiday should be singled out and celebrated unless they are willing to acknowledge them all. I don't have a problem with children learning about what other religions celebrate but to be forced to celebrate it also or be left out, I don't agree with that. Just my opinion.
Reply

Beardo
12-26-2009, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
With all due respect,

Eid and Islamic traditions should be discussed in ISLAMIC public schools. The key word here being "islamic".
Just as Catholic holidays and traditions should be discussed in Catholic public schools if there is such a thing.
As far as just a traditional public school, I don't think any religious holiday should be singled out and celebrated unless they are willing to acknowledge them all. I don't have a problem with children learning about what other religions celebrate but to be forced to celebrate it also or be left out, I don't agree with that. Just my opinion.
I was born and bred in America, and I attended the public schools throughout elementary school (Grades k-6). We had special activities for St Patricks day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, Presidents day, Martin Luther King's day, Drug Free Week, Halloween, and the list is endless. However, the days of Eid, Ramadan, etc were not typically discussed. It was only discussed one year by the teacher when my fellow Muslim sister in my class brought gifts and goodies for the entire class in the joy and light of Eid. That's when the teacher explained it a little.

I think it's only fair that if we do something special for Halloween or St Patricks Day (forget about Christmas and Easter) that something special be done for Eid as well. But then again, there were only a hand countable amount of Muslims in the entire school...
Reply

Supreme
12-26-2009, 11:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
No but my wife and her family went the year before I met her, She said it was a life changing expeirence, She also said it was the most awesome place she had ever been.

I used to be Roman Catholic and we went to a E, Orthodox Christmas service once........14 HUORS, let me say that again.....14 HOURRRRRRRRSSSSS! My legs were killing me, no sitting down.

They said it was the same in Bethlahem.;D

We are planning a trip to Italy. Greece, Turkey...then Egypt, Syria, Isriael and a couple others. It will take approx 3 months, and we end up back in Italy to see some family....They want to meet my wife:D I haven't been.

Being in Bethlehem for Christmas would be an awesome experience!

Come on lets go brother:D

God bless.

Indeed it would be. I intend to go in the next 10 years. I'll stay in Palestine though, because most foreign pilgrims to the church stay in Israel overnight, meaning Palestine only gets 5% of the profit.

Eid and Islamic traditions should be discussed in ISLAMIC public schools. The key word here being "islamic".
Just as Catholic holidays and traditions should be discussed in Catholic public schools if there is such a thing.
As far as just a traditional public school, I don't think any religious holiday should be singled out and celebrated unless they are willing to acknowledge them all. I don't have a problem with children learning about what other religions celebrate but to be forced to celebrate it also or be left out, I don't agree with that. Just my opinion.
And there was me, thinking Muslims didn't believe in secularism!

But yeah, totally agree.

Anyway, yesterday was smashing. I got a few nice presents, (a lovely, lovely watch, lovely top, new game and DVD boxset), went to church, had a lovely turkey for dinner, spent the day with my family watching Dr Who and Eastenders and ate lots of chocolate. Heaven on Earth.
Reply

Joe98
12-26-2009, 11:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Donia
I agree completely and I could not have said it better. Christmas has very little to do with religion nowadays in my humble opinion.

I agree with that.

Christmas is about being especially nice to people

Its about helping the needy even more than usual.

Its about meeting with frinds and family you have not seen for a while.

It has nothing to do with religion.

As a result we Athiests can participate in Christmas and enjoy it. We Athiests are tolerant.

Muslims are said to be tolerant but cannot participate in a nice time of the year, in an event that has nothng to do with religion!
-
Reply

zakirs
12-26-2009, 12:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
I agree with that.

Christmas is about being especially nice to people

Its about helping the needy even more than usual.

Its about meeting with frinds and family you have not seen for a while.

It has nothing to do with religion.

As a result we Athiests can participate in Christmas and enjoy it. We Athiests are tolerant.

Muslims are said to be tolerant but cannot participate in a nice time of the year, in an event that has nothng to do with religion!
-
We don't participate in Xmas or other celebrations because we would not see christmas the same way as you.We celebrate the festivals which have connection with god but not with any or prophets. We don't even celebrate Prophet muhammed(Pbuh)'s birthday.

Being nice to people is not for only a single day but being close to family and being kind day in and day out is what matters.

Any way we have eid ul fitr and eid ul zuha for giving out gifts to the poor and family. We do relax on holidays ( who doesn't ) but we donot support throwing away the money for just a baseless tradition.

( Note: baseless refers to red santa and tree and all the blingy things people introduced )
Reply

Grace Seeker
12-26-2009, 02:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
I agree with that.

Christmas is about being especially nice to people

Its about helping the needy even more than usual.

Its about meeting with frinds and family you have not seen for a while.

It has nothing to do with religion.

As a result we Athiests can participate in Christmas and enjoy it. We Athiests are tolerant.

Muslims are said to be tolerant but cannot participate in a nice time of the year, in an event that has nothng to do with religion!
-
No. Christmas isn't about being nice to people or meeting with family and friends any more than it is about decorated trees or presents under them. These things that people continue to list are just the human trappings that have become ancillary parts of the celebration. Some of them are no doubt valuable in their own right. And some of them are about nothing more than commerce -- note that we are now being encouraged by the stores to exchange gifts on Easter, Valentine's Day, and no doubt soon Ground Hog's Day as well.

Christmas isn't even a celebration of Jesus' birthday -- we don't know when it was (1/365 chance it was on December 25), some people argue for Spring and others for fall depending on what elements of the story they choose to focus on.

It is a celebration of the fact that God's Messiah (i.e. the Christ) has come and been born in the world as God's gift to humankind and that by him God has reconciled the world to himself. And so, the angels announced this as good news to the nearby shepherds, and Matthew records that in the course of time even pagan wisemen came to honor him. But the world into which he came, largely ignored him at the time and remained oblivious to this great work of God. It still is if they think it is about the date or the celebration, the gifts people exchange between one another, or even the elevation of human kindness. It is a story of God's love for a world lost in darkness and how that darkness is never greater than the love of God who comes to recuse us out of it and redeem us for his own purposes. Miss that and focus on something other than the incarnation of God with us, and you are celebrating something other than Christmas. Go ahead and object to or praise that other human-invented celebration all you want. But it isn't Christmas that you are either praising or objecting to if you've left Christ out of the picture.
Reply

Italianguy
12-26-2009, 10:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
No. Christmas isn't about being nice to people or meeting with family and friends any more than it is about decorated trees or presents under them. These things that people continue to list are just the human trappings that have become ancillary parts of the celebration. Some of them are no doubt valuable in their own right. And some of them are about nothing more than commerce -- note that we are now being encouraged by the stores to exchange gifts on Easter, Valentine's Day, and no doubt soon Ground Hog's Day as well.

Christmas isn't even a celebration of Jesus' birthday -- we don't know when it was (1/365 chance it was on December 25), some people argue for Spring and others for fall depending on what elements of the story they choose to focus on.

It is a celebration of the fact that God's Messiah (i.e. the Christ) has come and been born in the world as God's gift to humankind and that by him God has reconciled the world to himself. And so, the angels announced this as good news to the nearby shepherds, and Matthew records that in the course of time even pagan wisemen came to honor him. But the world into which he came, largely ignored him at the time and remained oblivious to this great work of God. It still is if they think it is about the date or the celebration, the gifts people exchange between one another, or even the elevation of human kindness. It is a story of God's love for a world lost in darkness and how that darkness is never greater than the love of God who comes to recuse us out of it and redeem us for his own purposes. Miss that and focus on something other than the incarnation of God with us, and you are celebrating something other than Christmas. Go ahead and object to or praise that other human-invented celebration all you want. But it isn't Christmas that you are either praising or objecting to if you've left Christ out of the picture.
Thank you! Very good answer.....Merry Christmas and God bless.:D
Reply

Donia
12-26-2009, 11:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Rashad
I was born and bred in America, and I attended the public schools throughout elementary school (Grades k-6). We had special activities for St Patricks day, Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, Presidents day, Martin Luther King's day, Drug Free Week, Halloween, and the list is endless. However, the days of Eid, Ramadan, etc were not typically discussed. It was only discussed one year by the teacher when my fellow Muslim sister in my class brought gifts and goodies for the entire class in the joy and light of Eid. That's when the teacher explained it a little.

I think it's only fair that if we do something special for Halloween or St Patricks Day (forget about Christmas and Easter) that something special be done for Eid as well. But then again, there were only a hand countable amount of Muslims in the entire school...
I agree with you.
I had similar experiences growing up. I even remember learning about Hanukah a little but Eid was never even mentioned. At least at the schools I attended.
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Donia
12-26-2009, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
I agree with that.

Christmas is about being especially nice to people

Its about helping the needy even more than usual.

Its about meeting with frinds and family you have not seen for a while.

It has nothing to do with religion.

As a result we Athiests can participate in Christmas and enjoy it. We Athiests are tolerant.

Muslims are said to be tolerant but cannot participate in a nice time of the year, in an event that has nothng to do with religion!
-
By my statement, I meant that Christmas is allegedly a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Astaghfurillah.
BUT that is not what the focus is on anymore. As you said, there are people who aren't even Christians that celebrate Christmas now because they think it stands for something else completely.
The religious aspect is not the major part of the holiday anymore. It is more about gifts and such.
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جوري
12-27-2009, 12:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
year, in an event that has nothng to do with religion!
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Tolerance doesn't mean acceptance or espousal of pagan ideas.. and you are right, we want nothing to do with this pagan practice.. It is 3ashoora tomorrow! for the life of me I can't understand why we are still discussing a pagan holiday that occurred soon to be two days ago, when we have an existing celebration of which undoubtedly you know nothing of and will not partake in! hypocrisy?

if you don't like Muslims or the way they conduct their affairs, you are always free to join an atheist or a christian forum!

all the best
Reply

Joe98
12-27-2009, 01:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Tolerance doesn't mean acceptance or espousal of pagan ideas.. ...

all the best


Those ideas in particulair being:

Peace on earth and goodwill to all men

Help the poor even more so than in the rest of the year.

Meet up with friends and relatives and friends not seen for a while.

Pagan! Pagan! Pagan!

all the best

-
Reply

جوري
12-27-2009, 02:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Joe98
Those ideas in particulair being:

Peace on earth and goodwill to all men
Ideas should be put into practice.. in other words good will toward man not just to get you to make a purchase at walmart but to stop dropping bombs on folks overseas.
Help the poor even more so than in the rest of the year.
That would be lovely indeed, except charity isn't mandatory in christianity so I don't see how feeding folks for one night and then tossing them out on the street is of help?
Meet up with friends and relatives and friends not seen for a while.
Yes selat ar'rahim would be nice again all year not just when you are expecting a cheap china made gift in return!
Pagan! Pagan! Pagan!
Unfortunate isn't it? you can run that phony crap by someone who would like to buy into it-- I can't be made to feel guilty over lip service!

all the best
Indeed!
Reply

Woodrow
12-27-2009, 02:36 AM
I do believe this has outlived any purpose.

:threadclo:
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