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umm junaid
12-24-2009, 09:28 PM
Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

The BBC are conducting a poll on their website to ban the HIJAB and NIQAAB in british schools.

The poll asks:Should the veil be banned in schools?
Please support our sisters in Britain by voting
NO!

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6466221.stm

Please spread this to your email contacts as well as forums and blogs.

May Allah reward you abundantly Insha'Allah

Wassalamu Alaykum

Jazak Allah Kayran
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Asim Khan
12-25-2009, 01:07 AM
As-Salam-o-aliekum,

I think that security is possibly a valid concern. I thought that I might ask (to help "moderate" Muslims vote more readily), does a finger print identification machine cost less than a x-ray checking machine? I think some schools in America have x-ray checking machines; they shouldn't have a clear reason to check the face for security.

Is this worthy of the world affairs section; can we link to this thread in one of its threads (that deals with the veil)?
Reply

Ummu Sufyaan
12-25-2009, 02:35 AM
:sl:
its amazing how insecure people are over a piece of cloth (lol)
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Sawdah
12-25-2009, 03:42 AM
:omg: No, don't ban the hijab!
Alhamdulillah, majority is saying no :)
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 04:37 AM
I will vote NO as well......I am a Christian but my wife wears something similar to a Hijab in the church, We don't call it a hijab. But if they ban it for any reason anywhere else it will go all over.

It is a womans religious and God given (and required by God) right to cover themselves, and show modesty.

I will NOT let any law:heated:, prevent my wife from covering herself!

This may be more focused on Islam, and or Muslim women but I'm supporting this one all the way!

We .......Orthadox type Christians or conservative and traditional Christians, still try to uphold the teachings of the Bible correctly. And this is in our Bible as well. (women coverd)

God bless.

I would say good luck, but i don't believe in luck, God provides what will happen.
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 04:53 AM
The article is old.
Reply

OurIslamic
12-25-2009, 05:18 AM
I voted "no".
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 05:41 AM
I will vote NO as well......I am a Christian but my wife wears something similar to a Hijab in the church, We don't call it a hijab. But if they ban it for any reason anywhere else it will go all over.

It is a womans religious and God given (and required by God) right to cover themselves, and show modesty.

I will NOT let any law:heated:, prevent my wife from covering herself!

This may be more focused on Islam, and or Muslim women but I'm supporting this one all the way!

We .......Orthadox type Christians or conservative and traditional Christians, still try to uphold the teachings of the Bible correctly. And this is in our Bible as well. (women coverd):D

God bless.

I would say good luck, but i don't believe in luck, God provides what will happen.
__________________
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Rafeeq
12-25-2009, 07:20 AM
The ariticle was written in 2007. Too late to vote. But I voted NO.
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Rafeeq
The ariticle was written in 2007. Too late to vote. But I voted NO.
Well i guess my argument is a moot point.:p

I am late for everything.......I will be late to my own funeral;D
Reply

Blackpool
12-25-2009, 08:58 PM
Veils should not be banned in schools but niqabs SHOULD be banned. Have we had this discussion before?
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Muezzin
12-25-2009, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Veils should not be banned in schools but niqabs SHOULD be banned. Have we had this discussion before?
Niqabs are veils.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Veils should not be banned in schools but niqabs SHOULD be banned. Have we had this discussion before?
I'm confused, isn't the veil = niqaab?
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Blackpool
12-25-2009, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Niqabs are veils.
You know what I meant


Hijab
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
You know what I meant

Hijab
So why ban the veil? :skeleton:
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Muezzin
12-25-2009, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
You know what I meant


Hijab
Hijabs are headscarves, which cover the hair. A niqaab, or veil, may be worn in addition. The veil covers the face.
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Blackpool
12-25-2009, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
So why ban the veil? :skeleton:
Niqab. Let's just say I have a dislike for anything that hides the individual's identity in the same way I dislike hoodies being used to hide the identity of the individual.
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Niqab. Let's just say I have a dislike for anything that hides the individual's identity in the same way I dislike hoodies being used to hide the identity of the individual.
Why is that?
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Blackpool
12-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Why is that?
Um so that the individual is easily identified in cases such as bullying, chewing gum, thieving etc.
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Why is that?
Yeah why is that? :hmm:
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Um so that the individual is easily identified in cases such as bullying, chewing gum, thieving etc.
Bullying and chewing gum? I doubt it. For theft yes.

Only a minority wear the Niqaab, the probability of someone wearing the Niqaab and committing a crime is very low. There has only been 3 or 4 cases involving the niqaab.

If people are really worried about crime, you might as well implement the criminal jurisdiction of Islam, that will tackle the source of all crime.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Um so that the individual is easily identified in cases such as bullying, chewing gum, thieving etc.
If there is genuine suspicion that a women with niqaab has stolen anything then she may be searched by a female police officer just like any other women would, there is no issue there. But how can that be a reason to ban niqaab? Will turbans be banned for Sikh men because of the issue of theft incase he hid anything under his turban? That is an absurd statement to make to say the least.
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Caller الداعي
12-25-2009, 10:29 PM
emmmmmm isnt that vote 2 years old?????
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cat eyes
12-25-2009, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
If there is genuine suspicion that a women with niqaab has stolen anything then she may be searched by a female police officer just like any other women would, there is no issue there. But how can that be a reason to ban niqaab? Will turbans be banned for Sikh men because of the issue of theft incase he hid anything under his turban? That is an absurd statement to make to say the least.
exactly i wonder will they ban the turban too!!! this will be interesting now i am really upset:cry:
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Argamemnon
12-25-2009, 10:36 PM
Women are not required to hide their faces in Islam and I don't see any reason why they should....
Reply

cat eyes
12-25-2009, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Women are not required to hide their faces in Islam and I don't see any reason why they should. I'm against "extremism". Islam tells us not to become extremists.
but they want to ban hijab why??:cry: thats so unfair! like i know sisters who wear niqaab but its not bout being extreme. its cos there imaan is more higher then others and there husband request that they should wear it so they must obey there husband shouldn't they? i mean what can u say bout that then brother:cry:
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
exactly i wonder will they ban the turban too!!! this will be interesting now i am really upset:cry:
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, They will never ban the turban because Sikh's helped the British empire out a lot when they ruled India so they have a special agreement with them. Why do you think they are allowed to carry the sword?
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Women are not required to hide their faces in Islam and I don't see any reason why they should....
It is well versed that women can wear the Niqaab. The Niqaab helps the women, instead of people judging her on how she looks, she'll be judged upon what she says.
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cat eyes
12-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, They will never ban the turban because Sikh's helped the British empire out a lot when they ruled India so they have a special agreement with them. Why do you think they are allowed to carry the sword?
because u.k has been carrying the sword for centuries imsad
Reply

GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, They will never ban the turban because Sikh's helped the British empire out a lot when they ruled India so they have a special agreement with them. Why do you think they are allowed to carry the sword?
:wa:

Its called a Kirpan, a dagger.

Canada was about to ban kirpan, a dagger that Sikhs carry back in 2002, however it was not seen as a dangerous weapon because on religious grounds. Canada supports Sikhs carrying the Kirpan.
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Argamemnon
12-25-2009, 10:55 PM
Muslim men are always abusing this "obey the husband" concept, sad but true :raging:
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Muslim men are always abusing this "obey the husband" concept, sad but true :raging:
:sl:

Careful not to generalise, yes women are expected to obey the husband but in some cultures women are not informed of their rights, for example how the husband is expected to financially support her.

In some cultures, people do exploit the rights they are given by the Sharia...
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Women are not required to hide their faces in Islam and I don't see any reason why they should....
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, There are two valid view points on the hijab. One view held by the Ullima is that the niqaab (covering the face) is wajib (compulsory) and other Ullima hold the view it is Mustahab (recommended and the best thing to do but not compulsory). So how can you things like "I don't see any reason why they should wear it"?

You should understand that the Niqaab is from the Quraan and Hadith and even if you hold the view of it not being wajib it is still THE BEST thing and recommended and anyone who wears it is to be respected. Anyone who discourages the wearing of Niqaab or denies it being in Islam or makes fun of someone who wears it they should fear ALLAH for making a mockery of his deen. Before making such erroneous statements please look into the subject in more detail because it is clear you have insufficient knowledge of where niqaab stands in Islam. It is a most beautiful thing and we as Muslims must support it and not make such heretical statements which clearly go against the Qur'an, sunnah and the ijma(consensus) of the scholars of Islam.

And ALLAH (swt) knows best.
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Argamemnon
12-25-2009, 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

Careful not to generalise, yes women are expected to obey the husband but in some cultures women are not informed of their rights, for example how the husband is expected to financially support her.

In some cultures, people do exploit the rights they are given by the Sharia...
We should not attempt to conceal this reality, we all know that there are many many Muslim men who are abusing their wives. The worst kind of hypocrites are those who abuse Islamic teachings for their own personal satisfaction.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
We should not attempt to conceal this reality, we all know that there are many many Muslim men who are abusing their wives. The worst hypocrites are those who abuse Islamic teachings for their own personal satisfaction.
This applies to both men and women. There is good and bad everywhere. These generalisations have no weight or substance.
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
We should not attempt to conceal this reality, we all know that there are many many Muslim men who are abusing their wives....
:sl:

Not concealing it, I'm showing you the source of the problem. People do exploit the Sharia and take verses out of context. Education about Islam is ridiculously low amongst some Muslims in my area.

Now there are approximately a billion Muslims across the world from different backgrounds, that is why I stated be careful not to generalise. If you have statistics then I would like to see it.

Now we have problems forced marriage problems, acid burning in Bangladesh and so on. Not denying there are problems.
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Argamemnon
12-25-2009, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb, There are two valid view points on the hijab. One view held by the Ullima is that the niqaab (covering the face) is wajib (compulsory) and other Ullima hold the view it is Mustahab (recommended and the best thing to do but not compulsory). So how can you things like "I don't see any reason why they should wear it"?

You should understand that the Niqaab is from the Quraan and Hadith and even if you hold the view of it not being wajib it is still THE BEST thing and recommended and anyone who wears it is to be respected. Anyone who discourages the wearing of Niqaab or denies it being in Islam or makes fun of someone who wears it they should fear ALLAH for making a mockery of his deen. Before making such erroneous statements please look into the subject in more detail because it is clear you have insufficient knowledge of where niqaab stands in Islam. It is a most beautiful thing and we as Muslims must support it and not make such heretical statements which clearly go against the Qur'an, sunnah and the ijma(consensus) of the scholars of Islam.

And ALLAH (swt) knows best.
The "ulema" says a lot of things I don't agree with... sometimes they will go against the Qur'an openly.

:wa:
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GuestFellow
12-25-2009, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
The "ulema" says a lot of things I don't agree with... sometimes they will go against the Qur'an openly.

:wa:
:sl:

Yes there are scholars who go against the teachings of the Qur'an however it does not change the fact that the Niqaab is well versed in the Qur'an and the Hadiths.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
The "ulema" says a lot of things I don't agree with... sometimes they will go against the Qur'an openly.

:wa:
My brother we are all humans and humans will inevitabley make mistakes but will you tarnish everyone with the same brush? Just because some husbands treat their wives badly does it mean all do? Just because there are some women who are loose does it mean all are? Just because some scholars have made mistakes does it mean all have? Is it right for you to make judgements on everyone? Does Islam teach us to do so? Or is Allah the only one who can judge?
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Supreme
12-25-2009, 11:15 PM
All religious clothing should be allowed in schools. When was the last time a Muslim teenage girl in a hijab blew her school up again?
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cat eyes
12-25-2009, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
The "ulema" says a lot of things I don't agree with... sometimes they will go against the Qur'an openly.

:wa:
brother you should be very careful what you say when talking bout the religion of Allah swt and what our beloved prophet saw has revealed to us through hadith evidence. its one of the main reasons why many sisters wear niqaab because the wives of the prophet saw never came infront of any other strange man
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
My brother we are all humans and humans will inevitabley make mistakes but will you tarnish everyone with the same brush? Just because some husbands treat their wives badly does it mean all do? Just because there are some women who are loose does it mean all are? Just because some scholars have made mistakes does it mean all have? Is it right for you to make judgements on everyone? Does Islam teach us to do so? Or is Allah the only one who can judge?
Allah is our judge. Amen
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
Allah is our judge. Amen
Allahumma Ameen
Reply

Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Allahumma Ameen
Can you tanslate that for me? That would be great.

God is with us.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
Can you tanslate that for me? That would be great.

God is with us.
Yeah sure "Allahumma" basically means "Oh Allah...". It is a more grammatically correct way of saying "Ya Allah". We say it a lot in supplication so as to show meekness and humility, calling upon our lord, completely submitting to him and asking of him to accept it from us. For Allah loves those who humble themselves in front of him supplicating to him with complete submissiveness for supplication is the weapon of the believer and it is a very powerful weapon and more powerful than we can ever imagine.
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Italianguy
12-25-2009, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Yeah sure "Allahumma" basically means "Oh Allah...". It is a more grammatically correct way of saying "Ya Allah". We say it a lot in supplication so as to show meekness and humility, calling upon our lord, completely submitting to him and asking of him to accept it from us. For Allah loves those who humble themselves in front of him supplicating to him with complete submissiveness for supplication is the weapon of the believer and it is a very powerful weapon and more powerful than we can ever imagine.
CAn't get any better than that. Thanks.:D

Has anyone posted a dictionary sort-of-speak of Arabic sayings. What i mean is i see a lot of greetings and sayings in Arabic I don't understand and I know everybody is growing tired of me asking:p

I was going to buy the Arabic version of Rostta Sone, but its expensive.

God be with you.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-25-2009, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
CAn't get any better than that. Thanks.:D

Has anyone posted a dictionary sort-of-speak of Arabic sayings. What i mean is i see a lot of greetings and sayings in Arabic I don't understand and I know everybody is growing tired of me asking:p

I was going to buy the Arabic version of Rostta Sone, but its expensive.

God be with you.
I've attached for you all the basic Islamic terms you will ever need to know along with the definition and a brief explanation. If you have any questions then please don't ever hesitate to ask. Enjoy!
Reply

KittenLover
12-26-2009, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Women are not required to hide their faces in Islam and I don't see any reason why they should....
Originally Posted by Argamemnon
Well, I didn't say anything about banning...


No, they must always obey God first...

And for their imaan being "higher";

Three men went to Prophet Muhammad once and wanted to express their sincerity. The first man said, "I will fast everyday and never eat during the day again." The second one said, "I will remain celibate to worship God for the rest of my life." And the third one proclaimed, "I will pray all night every night and never sleep again."The Prophet was not impressed with their zeal. He told them, "I am the Prophet of God, and I eat and fast, I also marry and sleep at night. Whoever does not follow my path is not one of my followers."The message from the prophet is that faith should be practiced in moderation. The Prophet warned his followers against religious extremism in all its aspects.


Never obey your husband when he is oppressing you, and doing things that are unIslamic...

asking your wife to wear niqaab isn't unislamic brother and it's not extremism if it was the prophet peace be upon him would have forbidden the women from wearing it, but the fact is he didn't, there's 2 opinions on it, one is that it's obligatory upon the women to veil her face, and the other is it's preferred that she covers her face. so to say it's something unislamic or not required is incorrect.

Imaam Malik's MUWATTA Book 20 Hadith # 20.5.16
Yahya related to me from Malik from Hisham ibn Urwa that Fatima bint al-Mundhir (Radhiallaahu Ánha) said, "We used to veil our faces when we were in Ihram in the company of Asma bint Abi Bakr As-Siddiq (Radhiallaahu Ánha). "This again proves that not only the wives of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) wore the Niqaab and that even though in Ihram women are not supposed to wear Niqaab but if men are there they still have to cover the face.

Abu Dawood Book 14, Hadith # 2482
Narrated Thabit ibn Qays (Radhiallaahu Ánhu): A woman called Umm Khallad came to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) while she was veiled. She was searching for her son who had been killed (in the battle) Some of the Companions of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said to her: You have come here asking for your son while veiling your face? She said: If I am afflicted with the loss of my son, I shall not suffer the loss of my modesty. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said: You will get the reward of two martyrs for your son. She asked: Why is that so, oh Prophet of Allah? He replied: Because the people of the Book have killed him.


Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Hadith # 715
Narrated 'Ikrima (Radhiallaahu Ánhu) narrates "Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil." It is a very long hadith but the point is the women of Sahaba wore the full veil.


there's much more evidence than this however this is satifactory I believe. there's numerous narrations that proove the women of the sahaba wore the veil over their faces.
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Italianguy
12-26-2009, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
I've attached for you all the basic Islamic terms you will ever need to know along with the definition and a brief explanation. If you have any questions then please don't ever hesitate to ask. Enjoy!
Wow! Thank you sir!

I just try not to be to much of a bother. Everyone has helped me a ton but I don't want to take too much of anybodys time with the same questions you all get all the time.

Thanks for giving me your time.

God bless
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Hamza Asadullah
12-26-2009, 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by Italianguy
Wow! Thank you sir!

I just try not to be to much of a bother. Everyone has helped me a ton but I don't want to take too much of anybodys time with the same questions you all get all the time.

Thanks for giving me your time.

God bless
Its no bother at all. We are always happy to help so please do not feel that you are burdening anyone with your requests or questions. You are and always will be most welcome.
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Italianguy
12-26-2009, 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Its no bother at all. We are always happy to help so please do not feel that you are burdening anyone with your requests or questions. You are and always will be most welcome.
You are too kind my friend. Thank you.

God be with us.
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umm junaid
12-29-2009, 05:17 PM
salam

i know its old, but i was at a local mosque and they were given out leaflets saying this, so i was just doing my bit.

sorry for any inconveinence.

salam alaykum.
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