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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Hello,

19 year old white male interested in Islam. However, I completely reject Christ as the son of god.

furthermore, i lean more towards paganism. I am just here to learn. And yes, i LOVE black metal - and no, I promise I am not a troll.

Many blessings,
Rick
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Misz_Muslimah
12-28-2009, 03:11 PM
Hello RickHolm and welcome to the forum :)
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Misz_Muslimah
Hello RickHolm and welcome to the forum :)
Thank you!

May I ask you some questions about islam?

I served in the US Military, so I know Islam is not what the common american think it is, and is not all about wars and bombs, so do not expect those questions.
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Misz_Muslimah
12-28-2009, 03:26 PM
^ Sure can..
In fact, there are many knowledgeable members on this forum..so go ahead and ask whatever questions you may have..
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Misz_Muslimah
^ Sure can..
In fact, there are many knowledgeable members on this forum..so go ahead and ask whatever questions you may have..
Alright.

My main reason for not having a religion is all of the LAWS that are set forth. I do not like doing that. I want to do what I want to do - or at least enjoy. For example, i do not like hurting or killing without reason - and i enjoy american music. Black metal. I have read many muslims are against metal, and thats the thing that sets me off. I am a musician, and i have a demo tape coming out in April. It's part of "who" i am.

So, with all of that in mind, how restrictive are the rules for Islam?
Reply

Misz_Muslimah
12-28-2009, 03:35 PM
^ Okay, to be honest..many of the rules in Islam are for a good purpose..for example..we don't drink alchol becuase it damages health and makes you intoxicated..women cover up so that guys aern't intimidated by them and so forth..all the rules have been set by Allah (God) and God knows best..we're not completely resticted and Islam does not restict everything and we can live our lives the way we want, but all we do is live our lives according to the rules set in Islam..
And the beautiful thing about Islam is when you start practising your religion, you begin to realise the beauty of islam, and the effect it has on your religion. Moreover, whatever the media says is completely wrong and not in any aspect, does Islam ever teach terrorism. Furthermore, to reinforce my point, when two muslims meet they say "aslamalakium wa rahmatu laahi wa barakaatu"
which means "May the peace and blessing of God be upon you"..how peaceful..
If you wanna read about what is prohibited in Islam and ask any questions, here's the link:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/h.../17/book17.htm
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'Abdul Rahmaan
12-28-2009, 03:36 PM
Welcome brother! Glad to have you here.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Misz_Muslimah
^ Okay, to be honest..many of the rules in Islam are for a good purpose..for example..we don't drink alchol becuase it damages health and makes you intoxicated..women cover up so that guys aern't intimidated by them and so forth..all the rules have been set by Allah (God) and God knows best..
If you wanna read about what is prohibited in Islam and ask any questions, here's the link:
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/h.../17/book17.htm
thank you very much :)

I will go read this.
Is there anyway I can get a arabic-english quran for free? I have seen that there are websites claiming to do this, but i do not feel like putting my info up on there.

also, it is because i am starting college and do not have much money left, it is on federal granted money.
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Misz_Muslimah
12-28-2009, 03:44 PM
Okay here's some I found:
http://www.quranexplorer.com
http://quranicaudio.com
http://www.quran.com
http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/neindex.htm
..Hope you find these websites useful.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Rahmaan
Welcome brother! Glad to have you here.
Thank you Brother :)

Hoe you are having a good day.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Misz_Muslimah
Thank you very much, i prefer actual paper though. I will buy a copy sometime then :) No worries.

I have read the link you gave earlier on - and it seems quite okay, really. The only issue I have is with the no-pictures law, and with the keeping of dogs.

In any case, it will take me some more time to digest it all. Overall, Islam seems decent and respectable enough, however, I am not sure if I, personally, can agree to it.

I have asked Allah (swt) that if he is real, and the true god, that he would show me. I am still waiting.
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Fטлку
12-28-2009, 03:59 PM
Hello RickHolm :D
Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully you'll learn tons and make plenty of friends :D
PS, I hate metal :p Like any other kind of music? :)
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Rafeeq
12-28-2009, 04:01 PM
Welcome to the forum. Hope your stay here will be beneficial.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
Hello RickHolm :D
Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully you'll learn tons and make plenty of friends :D
PS, I hate metal :p Like any other kind of music? :)
Thank you very much!

And as for other kinds of music, i also like dark ambient - besides that, not very much. Black metal has been my life for about 6 months now. However, i also do enjoy some Sikh Kirtan from time to time, however, I do find the Melodic reading from the Qur'an to be very nice!

When i hear the call to prayer, i am simply moved.
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Fטлку
12-28-2009, 04:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Thank you very much!
No problem :D

However, I do find the Melodic reading from the Qur'an to be very nice! When i hear the call to prayer, i am simply moved.
They do sound awesome :statisfie
Btw- you should reach 50 posts as soon as you can. The Forum totally stinks until one becomes a full member :p
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
No problem :D


They do sound awesome :statisfie
Btw- you should reach 50 posts as soon as you can. The Forum totally stinks until one becomes a full member :p
haha, i'm doing my best :)

Does anybody here know anything about the prayer rosary?

I have been through many religions (I am 19) and have yet to find one that suits my belief. I for one do not believe in eternal hell, etc.
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UmmSqueakster
12-28-2009, 04:23 PM
Welcome to the forum! I have two pages that may be helpful

http://umms.wordpress.com/converts/ <-- geared towards converts, but has a lot of links to introductory sites that are probably helpful for an enquirer as well

http://umms.wordpress.com/quran/ <-- a page of quran resources I just started putting together.

re: free quran, I highly highly highly recommend the program being done by CAIR - http://explore*************/request-...an-public.html - I'm not sure why it's *** it out, but it's "explore the quran.com", with no spaces. Yes you have to put your information in, and you have to pay for shipping, but it is beyond worth it. The Qur'an they send you is beautiful, expensive, and has excellent footnotes.

re: rules. Honestly, Islam has A LOT of rules. It really does. They're not just there to make our life difficult, they're there so that every act we do is an act of submission to the Divine. I'm not a big rules person myself. I grew up in a mainline protestant church that was more into the Jesus loves you than into any kind of moral regulations. It's taken me several years to come to terms with the rules in Islam, but I think I'm getting there. I see them as a way to reach my Lord. By submitting to the way He wants me to live outwardly, and working to purify my inner self, I can know that what I am doing is pleasing to Him, and that I am taking steps towards Him so that He may run towards me.

Allah Most High says:

“Whomever is hostile to a friend of Mine I declare war against. My slave approaches Me with nothing more beloved to Me than what I have made obligatory upon him, and My slave keeps drawing nearer to Me with voluntary works until I love him. And when I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he seizes, and his foot with which he walks. If he asks Me, I will surely give to him, and if he seeks refuge in Me, I will surely protect him. I do not hesitate from anything I shall do more than My hesitation to take the soul of the believer who dislikes death; for I dislike displeasing him” (Bukhari).

These rules are a means to draw near to Allah (swt), so that we can experience Him in the best possible way.
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
Welcome to the forum! I have two pages that may be helpful

http://umms.wordpress.com/converts/ <-- geared towards converts, but has a lot of links to introductory sites that are probably helpful for an enquirer as well

http://umms.wordpress.com/quran/ <-- a page of quran resources I just started putting together.

re: free quran, I highly highly highly recommend the program being done by CAIR - http://explore*************/request-...an-public.html - I'm not sure why it's *** it out, but it's "explore the quran.com", with no spaces. Yes you have to put your information in, and you have to pay for shipping, but it is beyond worth it. The Qur'an they send you is beautiful, expensive, and has excellent footnotes.

re: rules. Honestly, Islam has A LOT of rules. It really does. They're not just there to make our life difficult, they're there so that every act we do is an act of submission to the Divine. I'm not a big rules person myself. I grew up in a mainline protestant church that was more into the Jesus loves you than into any kind of moral regulations. It's taken me several years to come to terms with the rules in Islam, but I think I'm getting there. I see them as a way to reach my Lord. By submitting to the way He wants me to live outwardly, and working to purify my inner self, I can know that what I am doing is pleasing to Him, and that I am taking steps towards Him so that He may run towards me.

Allah Most High says:

“Whomever is hostile to a friend of Mine I declare war against. My slave approaches Me with nothing more beloved to Me than what I have made obligatory upon him, and My slave keeps drawing nearer to Me with voluntary works until I love him. And when I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he seizes, and his foot with which he walks. If he asks Me, I will surely give to him, and if he seeks refuge in Me, I will surely protect him. I do not hesitate from anything I shall do more than My hesitation to take the soul of the believer who dislikes death; for I dislike displeasing him” (Bukhari).

These rules are a means to draw near to Allah (swt), so that we can experience Him in the best possible way.
Can I pay for shipping via cash or some other method?

Alright, continuing on, about the rules: I guess i could slowly adopt, but it will take a whole lot of time, especially the whole pictures deal. I think i would be a little more liberal (my political views are socialist, and helping out everyone for the good of everyone else) and so on.

In any case, I plan on taking my time. I really, sincerely do. This is a question I will solve and work out.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
haha, i'm doing my best :)

Does anybody here know anything about the prayer rosary?

I have been through many religions (I am 19) and have yet to find one that suits my belief. I for one do not believe in eternal hell, etc.
Funky: Here is a song you may enjoy - at the end they sing "there is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

It is blackened death metal: Link Removed

Imagery may be disturbing and is anti-christian.
Reply

Snowflake
12-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Welcome to the forum Rick! Hope you have a beneficial stay God willing.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Welcome to the forum Rick! Hope you have a beneficial stay God willing.
Thank you very much :)
Reply

Fטлку
12-28-2009, 04:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Funky: Here is a song you may enjoy - at the end they sing "there is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

It is blackened death metal: Link Removed

Imagery may be disturbing and is anti-christian.
Check your reps :)
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 04:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
Check your reps :)
thank you so very much :D

and while the song sort of advocates shaitan (o serpent and lion, i invoke thee... oh snake, thou art god, coiled underneath my throne, with thee, i reunite) it seems to be a bit different. For me the serpent of the bible actually promotes wisdom and understanding against a jealous god, which would make sense if Allah (swt) gave up on them.
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Cabdullahi
12-28-2009, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Funky: Here is a song you may enjoy - at the end they sing "there is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

It is blackened death metal: Link Removed

Imagery may be disturbing and is anti-christian.
That video is quite shocking to be honest ''naked guy licking the apple, the fire,the crazy behaviour and so on''

you cannot do all those things and then wrap up the video with "there is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

its stupendous
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Fטлку
12-28-2009, 05:00 PM
:eek: I'm kinda glad I didn't see it then (would have thrown up..since I'm eating right now :p)
I opened it but didn't have my earphones on me so didn't listen to it.
Btw- what gave you the idea that I'll enjoy it? x]
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Cabdullahi
12-28-2009, 05:03 PM
the video screams satanic behavior at its worst......if any music genre was beloved to satan it would be the black metal genre
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
That video is quite shocking to be honest ''naked guy licking the apple, the fire,the crazy behaviour and so on''

you cannot do all those things and then wrap up the video with "there is No God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet"

its stupendous
I never said it was acceptable for muslims - I simply said i liked the ending :)
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-28-2009, 05:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Hello,

19 year old white male interested in Islam. However, I completely reject Christ as the son of god.

furthermore, i lean more towards paganism. I am just here to learn. And yes, i LOVE black metal - and no, I promise I am not a troll.

Many blessings,
Rick
Hello Rick you are most welcome here and you may ask us any questions you like and we will try our best to answer but remember we are lay people so we can only do the best we can with the limited knowledge we have.

Islam is total submission to the will on one God and all of the Prophets and messenger came with the same message and that is to spread and implement the worship of ONLY one God. Paganism is totally the opposite of oneness to God because it is the worship of more than one God.

In the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) lived among many pagans and many of those pagans after coming across the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) knew that he was conveying the truth. His character was so superiour that no one was like him and the message he spread made complete sense. Many of those pagans eventually became the greatest companions of the Prophet(Pbuh) and the greatest people of Islam.

Allah sent down Prophets and messengers to spread his message and these prophets and messengers were a mercy to mankind and the people they were sent to. The Prophet Muhammed(Pbuh) was sent to the whole of mankind not just his people.

Whatever laws Allah has established they are only for the benefit of mankind. We live in societies where we have laws and regulations therefore we are not completly free to do what we want but we have to remain within the boundaries of the laws and regulations of the society we live in. Samway the rules of Islam are generally the same except they also cover laws for the benefit of our spirituality as well as our physical and mental well being. For example the prohibition of alcohol and drugs which are the biggest cost to any society in regards to its resources and cause chaos and a depletion of recources.

The prohition of fornication and adultry which are the causes of many vices and diseases as well as the break ups of marriages and much more. Also the prohibition of usury which has had detrimenal effects to the income of countless people throughout the world and is the cause of the collapse of economies and the worldwide credit crisis.

Islam also focuses on bettering us as individual like prohibiting us from backbiting, slander, lying, cheating.

It enjoins that we are the best towards others and adopt a superiour form of manners and etiquttes as well as keeping ties of kinship and being the best towards our marriage partners and knowing their rights and our rights.

It enjoins that we be the best towards ur parents and that we don't even say "uff" to them. It enjoing that we control our anger and that we gain a closeness to Allah and a direct connection rather than through a priest or mediator.

It enjoins that we help our brothers and sisters and give much charity and that we give 2.5 % of wealth each year to the poor and if everyone enjoined this then there would be n poverty in this world. It says that we should enjoin good and forbid evil.

Everything Islam enjoins is the best for mankind in every way shape and form.

We welcome any questions you may have and we are delighted that you have taken an interest in Islam as it shows that Allah has lead you here and he is wanting to guide you but you should have an open mind and let the truth seep into permeate and infiltrate into your heart.

“He is Allah besides Whom there is no other god, knowing the unseen and the visible. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful! He is Allah, besides Whom there is no other god, the Sovereign, the Holy, (the Source of) Peace, the Secure, the Preserver, the Powerful, the Irresistible, the Grandiose. Glory be to Allah ahead of anything they may associate (with Him)! He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Shaper. His are the Finest Names. Everything in Heaven and Earth celebrates Him. He is the Powerful, the Wise.” (Qu’ran 59:22-24)

“Say: ‘He is Allah the One. The Eternally besought of all. He begets not nor is He begotten and there is none comparable unto Him.’” (Qu’ran 112: 1-4)
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 05:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
the video screams satanic behavior at its worst......if any music genre was beloved to satan it would be the black metal genre
Wow, that sure is quite the attitude to have... All band members are Thelemites, and have a love for God - which for them is love & knowledge. They may be occultists, but really calling them "satanists" is not at all correct.

In fact, this is the attitude that I find christians have the most. I do not think i would find it here, but, of course... It depends on person? Isnt islam about love?

Whether or not you agree with the music, you can at least be tolerant of where I am at right now - and there was a warning attached.

Secondly, to Funky : I did say you'd enjoy it, but maybe "enjoy" was not the right word... Alright, in any case, I am sorry & apologize. But to Abdullahii - I have nothing to apologize for - I gave a warning, he wished to view it. Not everyone here is Muslim, and of course, I gave due warning - Something they also do in Malaysia.

AGAIN, to everyone here: I will refrain from posting such material without further knowledge, and I apologize for that.
Reply

Fטлку
12-28-2009, 05:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Funky : I did say you'd enjoy it, but maybe "enjoy" was not the right word... Alright, in any case, I am sorry & apologize.
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to offend you or anything :embarrass And you don't have to apologize :)
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 05:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza81
Hello Rick you are most welcome here and you may ask us any questions you like and we will try our best to answer but remember we are lay people so we can only do the best we can with the limited knowledge we have.

thank you, and understood.

Islam is total submission to the will on one God and all of the Prophets and messenger came with the same message and that is to spread and implement the worship of ONLY one God. Paganism is totally the opposite of oneness to God because it is the worship of more than one God.

I believe in One God with many gods that are manifestations of this - akin to Hinduism, if you will. Of course, the idea is that are these gods worthy of worship? I wonder myself sometimes.

In the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) lived among many pagans and many of those pagans after coming across the Prophet Muhammed (Pbuh) knew that he was conveying the truth. His character was so superiour that no one was like him and the message he spread made complete sense. Many of those pagans eventually became the greatest companions of the Prophet(Pbuh) and the greatest people of Islam.

Good to understand, that must mean that Paganism has some merit for them to recognize truth, as say, compared to christians. the fact that pagans can comprehend the truth that muhammed was saying says something about pagans.


Allah sent down Prophets and messengers to spread his message and these prophets and messengers were a mercy to mankind and the people they were sent to. The Prophet Muhammed(Pbuh) was sent to the whole of mankind not just his people.

Agreed, and this is a liberal attitude that i support for any religion.

Whatever laws Allah has established they are only for the benefit of mankind. We live in societies where we have laws and regulations therefore we are not completly free to do what we want but we have to remain within the boundaries of the laws and regulations of the society we live in. Samway the rules of Islam are generally the same except they also cover laws for the benefit of our spirituality as well as our physical and mental well being. For example the prohibition of alcohol and drugs which are the biggest cost to any society in regards to its resources and cause chaos and a depletion of recources.

Agreed on this also, I do not smoke or drink. However, some laws are a little nonsense-ous if you ask me - such as not drawing portraits. Portraits are art, and we are not creating them to draw life into them. If god created something, we should be able to bask in his creation to see it's magnificence, and all the emotions thereof.

The prohition of fornication and adultry which are the causes of many vices and diseases as well as the break ups of marriages and much more. Also the prohibition of usury which has had detrimenal effects to the income of countless people throughout the world and is the cause of the collapse of economies and the worldwide credit crisis.

Understood, and sensible.

Islam also focuses on bettering us as individual like prohibiting us from backbiting, slander, lying, cheating.

Also good, no complaints.

It enjoins that we are the best towards others and adopt a superiour form of manners and etiquttes as well as keeping ties of kinship and being the best towards our marriage partners and knowing their rights and our rights.

Understood.

It enjoins that we be the best towards ur parents and that we don't even say "uff" to them. It enjoing that we control our anger and that we gain a closeness to Allah and a direct connection rather than through a priest or mediator.

Exactly something I love greatly.

It enjoins that we help our brothers and sisters and give much charity and that we give 2.5 % of wealth each year to the poor and if everyone enjoined this then there would be n poverty in this world. It says that we should enjoin good and forbid evil.

Also worthy of merit.

Everything Islam enjoins is the best for mankind in every way shape and form.

What about the portrait ideal? That is one I cannot understand, along with a few others I cannot recall.

We welcome any questions you may have and we are delighted that you have taken an interest in Islam as it shows that Allah has lead you here and he is wanting to guide you but you should have an open mind and let the truth seep into permeate and infiltrate into your heart.

“He is Allah besides Whom there is no other god, knowing the unseen and the visible. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful! He is Allah, besides Whom there is no other god, the Sovereign, the Holy, (the Source of) Peace, the Secure, the Preserver, the Powerful, the Irresistible, the Grandiose. Glory be to Allah ahead of anything they may associate (with Him)! He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Shaper. His are the Finest Names. Everything in Heaven and Earth celebrates Him. He is the Powerful, the Wise.” (Qu’ran 59:22-24)

“Say: ‘He is Allah the One. The Eternally besought of all. He begets not nor is He begotten and there is none comparable unto Him.’” (Qu’ran 112: 1-4)
My replies above are in bold, and thank you again.
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جوري
12-28-2009, 05:58 PM
:welcome: aboard Rick Holm

Enjoy:

Media Tags are no longer supported

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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to offend you or anything :embarrass And you don't have to apologize :)
You did not offend me as much as the above user did. If "Satan" represents free thought and understanding, and knowledge, there you go. For me, that is what Satan represents.

Conversely, you could also say that Satan is a tempter to do evil. In which sense, i see Satan as more of a personification of our own carnal nature, and our own jihad within ourselves. IN that metaphorical sense of Satan, I agree with.

However, Satan as portrayed in the Bible in Genesis (Judaism) is something altogether different from the current Christian view as an actual being.

If Islam accepts Satan as a metaphor, I have no issue.
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
:welcome: aboard Rick Holm

Enjoy:

thank you very much :)
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Fטлку
12-28-2009, 06:09 PM
I'm sorry even if I offended you a little. I really didn't mean to.
PS, Don't take anything he says to heart. He is never really..um..''serious'' :X
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RickHolm
12-28-2009, 06:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Fטлку
I'm sorry even if I offended you a little. I really didn't mean to.
PS, Don't take anything he says to heart. He is never really..um..''serious'' :X
It's quite fine, don't be. However, the accusations he makes are pretty common, without understand the general idea of Satan in black metal is not that of immorality and debauchery, but that of light, wisdom and truth, independent of social norms.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Hello again Rick and thank you for reading and replying.

The devil is known as Shaytaan or Iblees.

Iblees is a Jinn. Jinn are a different species of creation. They are made out of fire-energy (and man is created out of clay).

Because of this Jinn are able to move through solids and even enter and take control of human minds.

How did Iblees end up the condemned and hated creature that he is today?

Before the creation of Adam, Iblees lived in Heaven with the Angels. He was very pious and there was no place on Earth where he had not prostrated to Allah Talah.

Almighty Allah then created Adam and asked Angels and Iblis to prostrate before him. (Showing mankind’s superiority over all other creation, including Jinn.) All the Angels bowed to Adam but Iblees refused, saying that he was made of fire, whilst Adam was only made of clay.

His arrogance and pride angered Allah Ta’alah who banished him from Jannah. But Iblees was not content to leave alone. He was determined to destroy Adam, whom he blamed for his fall.

Iblees asked Allah to extend his life until the day of Qiyamah and then vowed to try and mislead as many of Adam’s progeny as he could. Iblees was determined that was not going to burn in the fire of Hell alone. Iblees then became known as Shaytaan which means devil.

Almighty Allah agreed to Shaytaan’s request, but also told him that He would grant forgiveness to anyone who sincerely asked for it.

Shaytaan is always waiting to mislead mankind and lead him astray and far away from the love and mercy of Allah. As Muslims, we should always be aware of, and on the look-out for Shaytaan’s deception because he is truly the master of deception.

Almighty Allah has honored humans and endowed them with two important gifts:

The first is the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, and that is attained by the very clean human instinct and then furthered by the dos and the don'ts as explained by Shariah.

The second gift that was given to humans by their Creator is the free will to choose between what is good and what is bad. Of course, this choice is not a blind one; rather, it is based on the Divinely-endowed will and the nature that is able to differentiate between right and wrong.

Bearing all this in mind, none can ask to be excused on the Day of Judgment because they had no knowledge of what is right and what is wrong or did not have the free will.

The simple reason for this is, as explained before, that people do have the ability to discern what is correct and what is not, and are endowed with responsible will that enables them to take full responsibility of all their words and deeds.

This very notion of being able to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong puts humans in a delicate test to explore and show their real obedience to their Creator.

Therefore, people who make the effort, struggle against their will and directs it towards Allah are better than angels in that sense.

This is because angels do not have this free will. They are there for specific purposes and to do specific jobs like carrying the messages of Allah to the messengers of Allah, protecting human beings and recording their deeds.

Because they have no free will, and they are just cut for obedience, angels will not be reckoned on the Day of Judgment, because there is no point of doing that to them.

Of course, this is then completely different from human beings who, on the Day of Judgment, will be taken to task for their deeds and punished or rewarded according to their choices.

Some people may question: if angels were created to obey and have no free will, how come then that Satan said: "No" when he was commanded to prostrate, amongst all other angels, to Adam? Is not that considered to be disobedience and thus it gives an indication of some kind of choice?

The simple answer to all this is no, simply because Satan was never one of the angels and never will be.

So, if that is the case, what is the whole story behind the Satan's being mentioned in the same context and what brought him to the scene? To answer this question, we need to refer to the Quran itself and the books of exegesis.

The Quran tells us in another place that Satan was one of the jinn and he disobeyed the command of his Lord.

Almighty Allah says:

[And (remember) when we said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam. And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was one of the jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord’s command.] (Al-Kahf 18:51)

In his commentary on this verse, Muhammad Marmaduke Pickthall, one of the most well-known translators of the meanings of the Quran, wrote: "The fact that Iblis or Satan is one of the Jinn and not of the angels, though he was among the latter, explains his disobedience, since Jinn, like men, can choose their path of conduct." (Pickthall, The Holy Quran, pg. 186)

With this in mind, we can understand what our scholars tell us that Iblis (a name of Satan) was actually one of the jinn, and was so obedient to Allah that He raised him, for wisdom and a purpose, to higher ranks and he was living in the heavens, worshipping with the angels.

When he was commanded to prostrate to Adam, he was there in his place amongst the angels, but because of his nature, he was still endowed with the free will to choose.

His presence there was definitely for a purpose. Probably, it was a test and Almighty Allah knew that Satan was going to do this.

Either way, Satan was not one of the angels and therefore, the characteristics of the angels do not apply on him.

One final thing remains. Humans have an eternal enmity with Satan and know that Satan is sparing no efforts all the time to misguide and mislead them. Therefore, they should be very cautious and alert, never to fall in the snares of Satan.

Islam teaches that the way out is to resort to Allah all the time and pray to Him for guidance and protection. Muslims are taught by the Quran to seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan and say: "I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan."

May God protect us all from Satan and forgive our sins and mistakes.


Some of the article from ReadingIslam
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 06:55 PM
Hello there.

I agree this is the case, but can the story be a metaphor for our own inner unwillingness to submit to Allah(swt) ?

For me, I see it all in metaphorical terms, which are still meaningful. Calling Satan "the whisperer" is indeed what he is - the bad side of us tempting us. Shadow and Light within.
Reply

UmmSqueakster
12-28-2009, 06:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Can I pay for shipping via cash or some other method?
I believe they currently only take credit or debit cards. Click on their contact us button and email to see if there's something else they could do. It never hurts to ask.

Alright, continuing on, about the rules: I guess i could slowly adopt, but it will take a whole lot of time, especially the whole pictures deal. I think i would be a little more liberal (my political views are socialist, and helping out everyone for the good of everyone else) and so on.

In any case, I plan on taking my time. I really, sincerely do. This is a question I will solve and work out.
I'm a hippy liberal tree hugger who's also an uber traditionalist muslim ;D There are two stereotypical muslim converts - those who try to take on too much too quickly, and those who question everything that is pretty much a given in islam. inshaAllah (God willing), if you take the time to study ahead of time, and ask the Divine to guide you towards what is best for you and what His will is for you, if you do decide to convert, you'll find a happy middle path. Don't go into thinking that you're x, y and z and that's never going to change. Be open to where the Almighty is directing you, and take the path that you're sent.
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 07:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
I believe they currently only take credit or debit cards. Click on their contact us button and email to see if there's something else they could do. It never hurts to ask.



I'm a hippy liberal tree hugger who's also an uber traditionalist muslim ;D There are two stereotypical muslim converts - those who try to take on too much too quickly, and those who question everything that is pretty much a given in islam. inshaAllah (God willing), if you take the time to study ahead of time, and ask the Divine to guide you towards what is best for you and what His will is for you, if you do decide to convert, you'll find a happy middle path. Don't go into thinking that you're x, y and z and that's never going to change. Be open to where the Almighty is directing you, and take the path that you're sent.
My only issue is giving up my black metal. thats about it. Otherwise, i'm sure I could cope. I'm just not sure if islam is correct.
Reply

Cabdullahi
12-28-2009, 07:27 PM
sorry i forgot the most important thing :(

welcome to the forum ricky!
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
sorry i forgot the most important thing :(

welcome to the forum ricky!
thank you :)
Reply

RickHolm
12-28-2009, 10:13 PM
Question for all: When does a muslim man STOP shaving?
Also, it is easy to tell apart muslim females (hijab) how can you identify a muslim male?
Reply

جوري
12-29-2009, 12:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Question for all: When does a muslim man STOP shaving?
Also, it is easy to tell apart muslim females (hijab) how can you identify a muslim male?
Muslim women look like this:

http://hijabella.files.wordpress.com...untitled-7.jpg

while Muslim men look like that!

http://ima.dada.net/image/3606779.jpg

different head gear!

peace
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 12:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Muslim women look like this:

http://hijabella.files.wordpress.com...untitled-7.jpg

while Muslim men look like that!

http://ima.dada.net/image/3606779.jpg

different head gear!

peace
Isnt the red/white checkered for non-hajj and black and white for hajj?

in any case, what about those caps i see some muslims wearing?
and do most muslims cover their heads?
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2009, 12:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Alright.

My main reason for not having a religion is all of the LAWS that are set forth. I do not like doing that. I want to do what I want to do - or at least enjoy. For example, i do not like hurting or killing without reason - and i enjoy american music. Black metal. I have read many muslims are against metal, and thats the thing that sets me off. I am a musician, and i have a demo tape coming out in April. It's part of "who" i am.

So, with all of that in mind, how restrictive are the rules for Islam?
[PIE]WELCOME![/PIE]

The reason music is haraam because it diverts our concentration from Allah. When praying we may have the music playing within our heads, making us difficult to concentrate.

The word of Allah from the Qur'an is what should be on our minds, we aim for constant reminder of Allah. Listening to music could divert us...
Reply

KittenLover
12-29-2009, 12:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Question for all: When does a muslim man STOP shaving?
Also, it is easy to tell apart muslim females (hijab) how can you identify a muslim male?

Idealy a Muslim should never shave his beard cos it's considered as mutilation and changing the natural way that man was made. the natural disposition I think it's called.

But many muslim men do it cos they wanna be like women I think ;D, or they just think they look better clean shaven.

Muslim males are identified by their long beards and trimmed mustaches.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 12:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
[PIE]WELCOME![/PIE]

The reason music is haraam because it diverts our concentration from Allah. When praying we may have the music playing within our heads, making us difficult to concentrate.

The word of Allah from the Qur'an is what should be on our minds, we aim for constant reminder of Allah. Listening to music could divert us...
I think music will only divert us if we let it.

For example, right now, i have no song going along in my head. It could, but if you have experience with meditation you can clear out the mind, so to speak. Keep things in control. IN any rate, I see what you are saying - but you can't NOT go through life without music. TV jingles, video games, movies... you name it.

I'm sure Allah wouldnt want us to be bored, but to do as we please, what gives us enjoyment as long as he looks out for us. I can understand the rules put forth earlier in the thread - maybe even the no portraits deal - but life without music, no movies - you might as well be a dervish in a cave!

to the other post: this is the cap I mean : http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2...m-Cap-B-2-.jpg
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 12:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KittenLover
Idealy a Muslim should never shave his beard cos it's considered as mutilation and changing the natural way that man was made. the natural disposition I think it's called.

But many muslim men do it cos they wanna be like women I think ;D, or they just think they look better clean shaven.

Muslim males are identified by their long beards and trimmed mustaches.
I just have a habit of shaving. I will keep doing so until I see the truth of the Qur'an.
Reply

جوري
12-29-2009, 12:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Isnt the red/white checkered for non-hajj and black and white for hajj?

in any case, what about those caps i see some muslims wearing?
and do most muslims cover their heads?
no as a dude you don't have to.. that is the traditional gear in Saudi Arabia the white ones I think are more popular in Palestine?
http://www.badeagle.com/journal/arch...alestinian.jpg
don't quote me on this I really don't know.. I think people used to cover their head in the olden days as protection from desert terrain.. and it just their natural clothes..

this is how pilgrims dress if that is what you mean by Hajj?

http://www.almotamar.net/photo/07-11-25-955884640.jpg
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2009, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I think music will only divert us if we let it.

For example, right now, i have no song going along in my head. It could, but if you have experience with meditation you can clear out the mind, so to speak. Keep things in control. IN any rate, I see what you are saying - but you can't NOT go through life without music. TV jingles, video games, movies... you name it.

I'm sure Allah wouldnt want us to be bored, but to do as we please, what gives us enjoyment as long as he looks out for us. I can understand the rules put forth earlier in the thread - maybe even the no portraits deal - but life without music, no movies - you might as well be a dervish in a cave!

to the other post: this is the cap I mean : http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2...m-Cap-B-2-.jpg
Your right, we cannot avoid music. Some music content today is inappropriate, some promote violent and sexual promiscuity. Other sounds of music is very difficult to avoid.

Life without music is not boring, natural sound of wind and rain can also calm us down. I actually enjoy the sound of thunder....

In fact when life started there was no music available. I'm certain humans must have survived without music. One of the thing we should be concerned is about not being dependent on music, humans should only depend upon Allah.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
no as a dude you don't have to.. that is the traditional gear in Saudi Arabia the white ones I think are more popular in Palestine?
http://www.badeagle.com/journal/arch...alestinian.jpg
don't quote me on this I really don't know.. I think people used to cover their head in the olden days as protection from desert terrain.. and it just their natural clothes..

this is how pilgrims dress if that is what you mean by Hajj?

http://www.almotamar.net/photo/07-11-25-955884640.jpg
I just mean the headscarf coloring. white red or white & black.

In any case, I was just wondering how i would spot a muslim male in america today.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2009, 01:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I just mean the headscarf coloring. white red or white & black.

In any case, I was just wondering how i would spot a muslim male in america today.
http://www.simplyislam.com/images/pages/50643a.jpg

^ Do you mean this?

How about visiting a mosque?
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
http://www.simplyislam.com/images/pages/50643a.jpg

^ Do you mean this?

How about visiting a mosque?
I could, but i am not muslim, and i hear that is forbidden. Or at least it was when i was in Afghanistan for a short while.
Reply

KittenLover
12-29-2009, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I just have a habit of shaving. I will keep doing so until I see the truth of the Qur'an.

sorry if I offended you :hmm:
Reply

Raaina
12-29-2009, 01:11 AM
Welcome to the forum Rick, i'm sure any questions you have will be answered, we have lots of informative people on here :)

I look forward to reading your posts :)
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KittenLover
sorry if I offended you :hmm:
I am not offended easily, don't be worried. :)
Reply

KittenLover
12-29-2009, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I am not offended easily, don't be worried. :)
that's good :) I don't think before I speak sometimes lol.

anyway I thought you might find this interesting.

Can we Prove Quran is From God?


Muslims have something that offers the clearest proof of all - The Holy Quran. There is no other book like it anywhere on earth. It is absolutely perfect in the Arabic language. It has no mistakes in grammar, meanings or context. The scientific evidences are well known around the entire world, even amongst non-Muslim scholars. Predictions in the Quran have come true; and its teachings are clearly for all people, all places and all times.

Surprisingly enough, the Quran itself provides us with the test of authenticity and offers challenges against itself to prove its veracity. Allah tells us in the Quran:

Haven't the unbelievers considered if this was from other than Allah, they would find within it many contradictions?

[Noble Quran 4:82]


Another amazing challenge from Allah's Book:

If you are in doubt about it, bring a chapter like it.

[Noble Quran 2:23]


And Allah challenges us with:

Bring ten chapters like it.
[Noble Quran 11:13]


And finally:

Bring one chapter like it.
[Noble Quran 10:38]


No one has been able to produce a book like it, nor ten chapters like it, nor even one chapter like it. It was memorized by thousands of people during the lifetime of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and then this memorization was passed down from teacher to student for generation after generation, from mouth to ear and from one nation to another. Today every single Muslim has memorized some part of the Quran in the original Arabic language that it was revealed in over 1,400 years ago, even though most of them are not Arabs. There are over nine million (9,000,000) Muslims living on the earth today who have totally memorized the entire Quran, word for word, and can recite the entire Quran, in Arabic just as Muhammad (peace be upon him) did 14 centuries ago.

source: http://www.godallah.com/is_quran_from_god.php
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2009, 01:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I could, but i am not muslim, and i hear that is forbidden. Or at least it was when i was in Afghanistan for a short while.
I'm not aware how Mosques operate in Afghanistan, but from my understanding your allowed to enter a Mosque. Muslims there will help you out.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
I'm not aware how Mosques operate in Afghanistan, but from my understanding your allowed to enter a Mosque. Muslims there will help you out.
Alright. I think it was banned for us due to cultural issues. Plus, at least in America - they had a mosque at every major base.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KittenLover
that's good :) I don't think before I speak sometimes lol.

anyway I thought you might find this interesting.

Can we Prove Quran is From God?


Muslims have something that offers the clearest proof of all - The Holy Quran. There is no other book like it anywhere on earth. It is absolutely perfect in the Arabic language. It has no mistakes in grammar, meanings or context. The scientific evidences are well known around the entire world, even amongst non-Muslim scholars. Predictions in the Quran have come true; and its teachings are clearly for all people, all places and all times.

Surprisingly enough, the Quran itself provides us with the test of authenticity and offers challenges against itself to prove its veracity. Allah tells us in the Quran:

Haven't the unbelievers considered if this was from other than Allah, they would find within it many contradictions?

[Noble Quran 4:82]


Another amazing challenge from Allah's Book:

If you are in doubt about it, bring a chapter like it.

[Noble Quran 2:23]


And Allah challenges us with:

Bring ten chapters like it.
[Noble Quran 11:13]


And finally:

Bring one chapter like it.
[Noble Quran 10:38]


No one has been able to produce a book like it, nor ten chapters like it, nor even one chapter like it. It was memorized by thousands of people during the lifetime of Muhammad (peace be upon him) and then this memorization was passed down from teacher to student for generation after generation, from mouth to ear and from one nation to another. Today every single Muslim has memorized some part of the Quran in the original Arabic language that it was revealed in over 1,400 years ago, even though most of them are not Arabs. There are over nine million (9,000,000) Muslims living on the earth today who have totally memorized the entire Quran, word for word, and can recite the entire Quran, in Arabic just as Muhammad (peace be upon him) did 14 centuries ago.

source: http://www.godallah.com/is_quran_from_god.php
Pretty cool stuff. I think if i ever learn arabic, i would have to try.
I mean, it is a challenge, so... :)
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2009, 01:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Alright. I think it was banned for us due to cultural issues. Plus, at least in America - they had a mosque at every major base.
Mosques should not ban people for cultural reasons, it should be open to anyone who is interested.
Reply

Italianguy
12-29-2009, 01:31 AM
Welllllllllccccccccccccccoooommmmmmmmmmmmmee.....t o the forum;D

I am "ITALIANGUY" :D

Just wanted to drop by an extend a warm greeting from.....the Christian dude.:D

Hope your stay here is beneficial and please buckle your seat belt and put your tray in the upright position, Thanks for flying IB Islamic forum, have a great day:D
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Mosques should not ban people for cultural reasons, it should be open to anyone who is interested.
Sadly, soldiers cannot take off their shoes or leave a firebase out of uniform or at least I didnt... I;'d rather mind my own business and play basketball or something. I didnt like going to far away anyways.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
Welllllllllccccccccccccccoooommmmmmmmmmmmmee.....t o the forum;D

I am "ITALIANGUY" :D

Just wanted to drop by an extend a warm greeting from.....the Christian dude.:D

Hope your stay here is beneficial and please buckle your seat belt and put your tray in the upright position, Thanks for flying IB Islamic forum, have a great day:D
thanks, and i like your greeting :)
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 01:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Sadly, soldiers cannot take off their shoes or leave a firebase out of uniform or at least I didnt... I;'d rather mind my own business and play basketball or something. I didnt like going to far away anyways.
Just wanted to add many would not feel comfortable in a public mosque in uniform.
Reply

Italianguy
12-29-2009, 01:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
thanks, and i like your greeting :)
I am glad, i like to bring a smil wherever i go!:D:D

IB Islamic forum,,commercial free threads, 24/7 for your reading pleasure;D
Reply

UmmSqueakster
12-29-2009, 02:34 AM
We often have school groups come to our masjid for jummah prayer. Some masjids are more open and friendly than others. Some are also better organized than other sadly. I'd say call up and let them know you'd like to visit. Hopefully, they'll call you back. Where in the US are you? If you're in a major city, maybe someone on this board will know of a good place to visit.

Re: what muslim men wear. Oftentimes, they don't really stand out here. My husband is an immigrant from egypt, and he is often mistaken for a hispanic. One of these days, inshaAllah, he'll grow a beard, but he's worried about being perceived as a terrorist. It's enough for him that he's dark, from egypt and has a muslim name. Anything else might scare people away :heated:
Reply

Insecured soul
12-29-2009, 03:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Alright.

My main reason for not having a religion is all of the LAWS that are set forth. I do not like doing that. I want to do what I want to do - or at least enjoy. For example, i do not like hurting or killing without reason - and i enjoy american music. Black metal. I have read many muslims are against metal, and thats the thing that sets me off. I am a musician, and i have a demo tape coming out in April. It's part of "who" i am.

So, with all of that in mind, how restrictive are the rules for Islam?
hello rick hope ur doing good. I would like to tell you that even i am an x musician and i was djieng for a couple of years, i also composed lot of tracks. i couldnt live without it and i use to feel the same way u do now thats its "part of me"

People who love music too much try to define thier personality by it and its the only thing which makes them feel joyous however this aint the real joy.

Allah subhanawata'aal has kept real joy in his remembrance, its when u see things around you (birds, mountains, clouds....) in short everything u see in the cosmos :) and feel how perfect everything is and glorify him.

as far as my story goes i stopped listening to music completely and all i listen to is quranic recitation and it plays on my mind all the time :) and i deep in my heart i feel tranquility and serenity

You wont be able to leave music at once however the thing u can try is starting listening to quranic recitation i recommend Abdul Basit Abdul Samad

Good luck, salaam alaikum
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 03:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
We often have school groups come to our masjid for jummah prayer. Some masjids are more open and friendly than others. Some are also better organized than other sadly. I'd say call up and let them know you'd like to visit. Hopefully, they'll call you back. Where in the US are you? If you're in a major city, maybe someone on this board will know of a good place to visit.

Re: what muslim men wear. Oftentimes, they don't really stand out here. My husband is an immigrant from egypt, and he is often mistaken for a hispanic. One of these days, inshaAllah, he'll grow a beard, but he's worried about being perceived as a terrorist. It's enough for him that he's dark, from egypt and has a muslim name. Anything else might scare people away :heated:
Ah, I see. I am in Pennsylvania, near Allentown. I don't have my own car, and I don't feel like telling my Mom i'm thinking about becoming a muslim - I havent given it serious thought beyond a week or two.

As for your husband: Understandable. He needs a correct presentation of Islam as a religion of peace, then he should do whatever he can to not upset others around him. Makes sense to me.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 03:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Adib Shaikh
hello rick hope ur doing good. I would like to tell you that even i am an x musician and i was djieng for a couple of years, i also composed lot of tracks. i couldnt live without it and i use to feel the same way u do now thats its "part of me"

People who love music too much try to define thier personality by it and its the only thing which makes them feel joyous however this aint the real joy.

Allah subhanawata'aal has kept real joy in his remembrance, its when u see things around you (birds, mountains, clouds....) in short everything u see in the cosmos :) and feel how perfect everything is and glorify him.

as far as my story goes i stopped listening to music completely and all i listen to is quranic recitation and it plays on my mind all the time :) and i deep in my heart i feel tranquility and serenity

You wont be able to leave music at once however the thing u can try is starting listening to quranic recitation i recommend Abdul Basit Abdul Samad

Good luck, salaam alaikum
Thank you very much brother,

I will have to see and read some more :) Not to mention read the Quran myself, which I will do shortly...
Reply

Esther462
12-29-2009, 04:21 PM
Welcome to forum.
I rejected Jesus as the son of God before I converted to Islam.
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Thank you very much, i prefer actual paper though. I will buy a copy sometime then :) No worries.

I have read the link you gave earlier on - and it seems quite okay, really. The only issue I have is with the no-pictures law, and with the keeping of dogs.

In any case, it will take me some more time to digest it all. Overall, Islam seems decent and respectable enough, however, I am not sure if I, personally, can agree to it.

I have asked Allah (swt) that if he is real, and the true god, that he would show me. I am still waiting.
if your in the army still go to the chaplin he can give you one for free it doesnt have to be a muslim chaplin all chaplins keep them. thats actually how i got the one that i got.

check you base and see if there is someone there you can talk to... most chaplins are well versed in all relgions...
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
if your in the army still go to the chaplin he can give you one for free it doesnt have to be a muslim chaplin all chaplins keep them. thats actually how i got the one that i got.

check you base and see if there is someone there you can talk to... most chaplins are well versed in all relgions...
I am no longer in the military, so I cannot ask. I posted a new thread in a forum, here, but it has not been approved yet? Not sure.
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 08:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
I am no longer in the military, so I cannot ask. I posted a new thread in a forum, here, but it has not been approved yet? Not sure.
i would be more then happy to get you one... i dont know if you are comfortable enough sharing an address with a stranger but the offer is there if you want it... on 3 conditions. (and these were given to me when I was given my first Koran)

1. Always wash your hands before you touch it or read it.

2. never take it with you everywhere. it was explained to me how some people take their bible with them everywhere... restraunts, bathrooms etc. the koran is a holy book and should be kept in a safe place...

and finally 3. whenever you place it on the shelf.... always place it on the highest shelf... it was explained to me that nothing is over the word of god. (sort of a respect thing)

i actually dont keep mine on a shelf it has its own special little stand. :-)

anyway if you are near a base still a lot of chaplins would be happy to talk about their faith even with someone who was prior service. if not just google for local Mosques in your area.... (spelling???? sorry i dont use that word often... my husband and i say Džamja) a lot of Džamja have new people groups or stuff like that... and even if they dont i am sure someone there would be willing to talk to you....

if your intrested and really want a koran just let me know i will private message you my email.
Reply

RickHolm
12-29-2009, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
i would be more then happy to get you one... i dont know if you are comfortable enough sharing an address with a stranger but the offer is there if you want it... on 3 conditions. (and these were given to me when I was given my first Koran)

1. Always wash your hands before you touch it or read it.

2. never take it with you everywhere. it was explained to me how some people take their bible with them everywhere... restraunts, bathrooms etc. the koran is a holy book and should be kept in a safe place...

and finally 3. whenever you place it on the shelf.... always place it on the highest shelf... it was explained to me that nothing is over the word of god. (sort of a respect thing)

i actually dont keep mine on a shelf it has its own special little stand. :-)

anyway if you are near a base still a lot of chaplins would be happy to talk about their faith even with someone who was prior service. if not just google for local Mosques in your area.... (spelling???? sorry i dont use that word often... my husband and i say Džamja) a lot of Džamja have new people groups or stuff like that... and even if they dont i am sure someone there would be willing to talk to you....

if your intrested and really want a koran just let me know i will private message you my email.
Seems simple enough, I have tried every religion there is, and i was SIkh for about 6 months when i was younger. Buddhism also has respect for books, and keeps theres high up.

Anyways, with those three condtions, I can manage. You can PM me, but I cannot PM back - I am not a full member till my 50th post.
Reply

Muhammad
12-29-2009, 09:24 PM
Greetings RickHolm,

Welcome to LI. I am happy to hear of your interest in Islam. :)

Regarding any questions you may have, please feel free to start a thread in the Discover Islam section for basic issues, or the Clarifications about Islam if that is more appropriate. That way, it's easier to find and organise for everyone.

I hope you will have a beneficial and enjoyable time here, and that Allaah (swt) will open your heart to the truth.

Peace.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-29-2009, 10:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Seems simple enough, I have tried every religion there is, and i was SIkh for about 6 months when i was younger. Buddhism also has respect for books, and keeps theres high up.

Anyways, with those three condtions, I can manage. You can PM me, but I cannot PM back - I am not a full member till my 50th post.
Hello again Rick, here is a website where you can get 2 versions of the Qur'an by the 2 most popular of Qur'anic translators - Marmaduke Pickthale and Abdullah Yusuf Ali. The cost is very minimal is this is a dawah(Invite to Islam) organisation. They do ship overseas.

http://www.idci.co.uk/product.php?id=1694
Reply

Asiyah3
12-29-2009, 11:11 PM
Welcome to IB, bro :statisfie It's great to have you here. I've read many of your posts and I love your attitude and some of your views.

I'd love to hear your views after you've read the Qur'aan :statisfie
Take your time in exploring Islam, no rushing :D

Here's a little something ( you can read the translation, sorry I don't know how to past the video here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nou8YlH-wbQ

Since you wrote this in one of your posts:
"...allah(swt) will forgive everyone eventually. After all, his first quality is merciful. "

, so here's something I felt like quoting:D (I cut it a bit so you don't get tired):
_________________________

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah is the Most Merciful, Most Compassionate, and He is the most Merciful of those who show mercy. His Mercy encompasses all things. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and My Mercy embraces all things”

[al-A’raaf 7:156]


It was narrated that ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: “Some prisoners were brought to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and there was a woman among the prisoners who was searching (for her child). When she found her child she embraced him and put him to her breast. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to us, ‘Do you think that this woman would throw her child in the fire?’ We said, ‘No, by Allaah, not if she is able not to.’ The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, ‘Allaah is more merciful to His slaves than this woman is to her child.’”

Agreed upon. Al-Bukhaari, 5653; Muslim, 6912.

One aspect of the mercy of Allaah to His slaves is that He sent the Messengers and revealed the Books and laws to organize their lives according to the ways of wisdom, far removed from hardship and difficulty. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And We have sent you (O Muhammad) not but as a mercy for the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:107]


“Declare (O Muhammad) unto My slaves, that truly, I am the Oft-Forgiving, the Most-Merciful.

And that My Torment is indeed the most painful torment”

[al-Hijr 15:49-50]
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 11:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Thank you very much, i prefer actual paper though. I will buy a copy sometime then :) No worries.

I have read the link you gave earlier on - and it seems quite okay, really. The only issue I have is with the no-pictures law, and with the keeping of dogs.

In any case, it will take me some more time to digest it all. Overall, Islam seems decent and respectable enough, however, I am not sure if I, personally, can agree to it.

I have asked Allah (swt) that if he is real, and the true god, that he would show me. I am still waiting.
Dear sister,

First of all, I’d like to apologize for this late reply. In fact, your question is very interesting and I really appreciate your posing it, for it will help a lot in dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s concerning this issue. Thus addressing many misconceptions that have filled some minds.

To start with, I find it very important to make it clear that while setting rules and codes to govern human affairs, a divine religion like Islam must never let those rules be detached from the realities of life. As Allah says in the Qur’an:


... God intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. ...


Surah 2 Verse 185

This means that the rules and teachings must not pose a difficulty for its followers. Thus, it’s normal to assume that certain benefits, apparent or hidden, are inherent in shari’a injunctions. Of course, this is apart from the sense of worship that compliance with them implies.

The issue of dogs is one of the most debatable issues in recent times, especially as da’wah gains ground in the West, whereby people enter into Islam in large numbers. Thus, the questions on the lips of many reverts is: ‘can I keep my dog while still abiding by my religious obligations? Will my new religion take away from me my dog, which has become my closest friend?’

What makes this issue so debated is the fact that there are many Prophetic hadiths that warn Muslims about getting into contact with dogs. In fact, some of these hadiths give warnings that going against this rule takes away a sizeable amount of reward from a person’s record (of good deeds) daily. Adding to that is the Prophet’s order for killing the dogs in Medina and the Angel Gabriel’s refusal to enter the Prophet’s house in one of his visits, citing the presence of dog as reason.

But alongside with this, are many hadiths that call for showing kindness to animals in general, including dogs, and the permissibility of keeping dogs for hunting, guarding, etc. It’s further reported that some of the Prophet’s companions, may Allah be pleased with them all, were in the habit of keeping animals for farming purposes or even for fun and pleasure.

So to clarify this confusion, we need to interpret those hadiths in the light of the Qur’an. The Qur'an makes it clear that there is no harm in eating animals grabbed by hunting dogs. Furthermore, it’s through the Qur'an that we get acquainted with the story of the Cave Companions (ahl-ul-khaf) who had with them their dog; this clearly shows that dogs have historically been used for guarding the person and the property of its owners.

This also indicates that dogs must be treated well they are of the animals referred to in the verse:
There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you.


Surah 6 Verse 38

The implicit message of this verse is that in Islam, the concept of mercy covers humans as well as animals, for Islam accords animals inviolable rights, part of which is to be fed well and not to be subject to torture or ill-treatment. Hence, I recall here the hadith in which the Prophet (pbuh), stated that a woman was doomed to enter Hell because of a cat...

‘which she neither fed nor let it eat from the vermin of the earth.’

This hadith makes it clear that Islam does not go against keeping animals, including watch or hunting dogs, as long as one does not neglect them. In fact, the Prophet (pbuh) states that showing kindness to animals is a means of earning reward:

‘In every living being there is reward.’

Adding to this is the hadith in which the Prophet (pbuh) told his companions a story concerning a man who found a dog in the desert panting and licking the dust due to thirst. The man went to a well, filled his shoes with water, and relieved the dog's thirst. Said the messenger of Allah (pbuh):

‘Allah appreciated this and forgave him all his sins.’ (Reported by al-Bukhari)

Having said this, we have to ask: ‘How is it that the religion that is rich in all these fine precepts about animal rights, is the same religion that warns its followers about getting into contact with dogs and even emphasizes that the utensils licked by dogs should be washed 7 times, one of them with earth?’

The answer is very simple. The basic rule in Islam is the permissibility of keeping dogs for hunting and guarding. Still, the exception to the rule is: excessiveness must be avoided as much as possible. The care and concern for human beings should take higher priority over the care of animals, and the reward for that is greater.

We will be able to understand this fact, when we notice that some people do pay a great deal of attention to their cats and dogs, at the expense of other things. It is better for Muslims to make the best use of their time in that which is beneficial and good. Some people spend more money on their cats and dogs, than they spend on their own sons and daughters! Then, let alone the poor and needy. They may even bring their pets to stay in luxurious hotels and bequeath large amounts of money to them.

You see, sister, going to extremes in showering dogs with love, concern and kindness, is what shari’a goes against, because there should be no collision between human rights and animal rights. Thus, in observing how lavishly the well-off treat their dogs while despising their relatives, and how much attention they give their dogs while neglecting their neighbors, one realizes the wisdom of the cautious approach the shari’a has towards this issue.

It’s also due to the danger that the dogs posed at a certain time during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh), that he ordered for the killing of the dogs, but he later rescinded this order. As we know, stray dogs pose as a nuisance and health hazard. They tend to defecate indiscriminately in the open, thereby posing a danger for children and pedestrians.

It’s also worth mentioning that the health risks in getting too close to dog, allowing it to lick children’s hands, utensils…etc is not to be overlooked, especially as this has been affirmed by many experts. I’d like you to read the following:

‘Some lovers of the West in Muslim countries claim to be full of love and compassion for all living creatures and they wonder why Islam warns against this "best friend" of man. For their benefit, we quote here a lengthy excerpt from an article by the German scientist, Dr. Gerard Finstimer, (translated from the German magazine: Kosinos) in which the author sheds light on the dangers to human health, resulting from keeping dogs or coming in contact with them. He says:

‘The increasing interest shown by many people in recent times in keeping dogs as pets has compelled us to draw public attention to the dangers, which result from this, especially because pet dogs are hugged and kissed and permitted to lick the hands of the young and the old, and what is worse, to lick the plates and utensils, which are used by human beings for eating and drinking.

Besides being unhygienic and uncouth, this practice is bad manners and abhorrent to good taste. However, we are not concerned with such matters, leaving them to be addressed by teachers of etiquette and good taste. Rather this article is intended to present some scientific observations.

From the medical point of view, which is our main concern here, the hazards to human health and life from keeping and playing with dogs are not to be ignored. Many people have paid a high price for their ignorance, as the tapeworm carried by dogs is a cause of chronic disease, sometimes resulting in death.

This worm is found in man, in cattle, and in pigs. But it is found in fully developed form only in dogs, wolves and rarely in cats. These worms differ from others in that they are minute and invisible, consequently, they were not discovered until very recently.’


So, dear sister, in light of all these facts, I want to sum it up. You don’t need to worried about keeping your dog (within the necessities sanctioned by Islam, i.e. for protection or taken as watch dog) as long as you know the rights you owe it and as long as you know that your love for your dog must not affect your religious duties. I want to emphasise here that all that you have heard or what is cited above does not indicate that dogs are rendered an impure animal. But my advice to you is not to get too much in contact with it, keeping in mind all the above-mentioned problems.

To let you know, not all scholars regard dogs as impure. For instance, the Malikite Jurists maintain that the dog is pure, even its saliva, and this is the predominant opinion. So, it is not obligatory to wash the body or the clothes, but one must still wash a bowl that touched or licked by dog. The Hanafite Juristic School and some of Hanbali Jurists say that it’s only dog’s saliva that’s filthy and impure, but its body is not. Imam Ibn Taymiyyah considers this view to be the most correct. Thus, if a person’s clothes get wet from touching the dog's fur, this doesn't render them impure. Also, if one touches the dog's fur after making ablution (wudu'), this does not nullify the ablution, but if one gets touched with dog's saliva, then one has got tainted with impurity, and it must be removed.

What this implies, is that apart from going into extreme in human’s relation with animals in general, dogs in particular, there is nothing wrong in Islam with one’s getting in contact with animals as long as caution is demonstrated. There is nothing wrong in reading the Qur’an while you have your dog at home; what you heard concerning this is baseless. Islam does not go against keeping a dog for the reasons mentioned above.

Well sister I hope this better clarifies the issue in question.
Name of Counselor Kamal Badr

Ref: http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...AskAboutIslamE
Reply

Raaina
12-29-2009, 11:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza81
Hello again Rick, here is a website where you can get 2 versions of the Qur'an by the 2 most popular of Qur'anic translators - Marmaduke Pickthale and Abdullah Yusuf Ali. The cost is very minimal is this is a dawah(Invite to Islam) organisation. They do ship overseas.

http://www.idci.co.uk/product.php?id=1694
Actually, that website says it doesn't post overseas imsad

However i'm glad you shared this because I was looking for somewhere in the UK that I could order a Qu'ran from, so thank you :)
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 11:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
My only issue is giving up my black metal. thats about it. Otherwise, i'm sure I could cope. I'm just not sure if islam is correct.
i like a lot of punk and it never goes away just after reading the koran you mindset starts to change... it just makes so much sense.
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 11:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Isnt the red/white checkered for non-hajj and black and white for hajj?

in any case, what about those caps i see some muslims wearing?
and do most muslims cover their heads?
at least in dubai its red and white checkered for those who have gone on Hajj and those who have not gone on Hajj just where plain white.
Reply

Grofica
12-29-2009, 11:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Alright. I think it was banned for us due to cultural issues. Plus, at least in America - they had a mosque at every major base.
i never saw a Džamja on base... :-( and the ones in the sandbox on base dont run. not even for islamic services. its only 1 day per week (at night) in the same building they have all the services in.

i would just call ahead and tell them you want to learn. I dont think they would be apposed to it. just dont wear shorts and a tank top. dress conservitively.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-30-2009, 12:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mystical_moon
Actually, that website says it doesn't post overseas imsad

However i'm glad you shared this because I was looking for somewhere in the UK that I could order a Qu'ran from, so thank you :)
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

I would really recommend the Dawah pack it has 48 publications in it:

http://www.idci.co.uk/product.php?id=1690
Reply

Grofica
12-30-2009, 12:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Does anybody here know anything about the prayer rosary?
here is an article on the prayer beads. i dont know how accurate it is.
http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2006/11/99-100.html


also this is an intresting article on it but i cant tell you how accurate it is. :-)http://www.********************/Book...dies/chap1.htm
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 12:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
i like a lot of punk and it never goes away just after reading the koran you mindset starts to change... it just makes so much sense.
thanks, i will have to see this myself :)
Reply

Grofica
12-30-2009, 12:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
here is an article on the prayer beads. i dont know how accurate it is.
http://paternosters.blogspot.com/2006/11/99-100.html


also this is an intresting article on it but i cant tell you how accurate it is. :-)http://www.********************/Book...dies/chap1.htm
ok i dont know why that came out bad but the link is
paternosters. blogspot.com /2006 /11/ 99- 100 .html but no spaces...
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 12:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
ok i dont know why that came out bad but the link is
paternosters. blogspot.com /2006 /11/ 99- 100 .html but no spaces...
All I had to do was click, and then remove the /url bit :) worked out fine, thanks for the info :D
Reply

Grofica
12-30-2009, 12:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
All I had to do was click, and then remove the /url bit :) worked out fine, thanks for the info :D
oh there is a HUGE thing on wiki check it out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misbaha
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 12:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grofica
oh there is a HUGE thing on wiki check it out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misbaha
Aw, haha. they look so nice. :) I love using rosaries so much - I tend to gravitate towards religions that use rosaries, for some reason.
Reply

Abdul Fattah
12-30-2009, 12:38 AM
Hi rick,
First off all, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see people who are investigating/asking questions. I pray that Allah subhana wa ta'ala guides you to the right religion.
That being said, I must say I find some of your questions, how should I say this, "out of place". well, perhaps not your questions themselves, but the context in which you place them. I can't shake the feeling that you're sort of "shopping" for a religion. Looking whether or not Islam fits your personal preference. If you ask me, choosing religions shouldn't be about what you like or dislike, but rather about what you think is true or false.
No hard feelings I hope, just adding my two cents ^_^
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 12:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
Hi rick,
First off all, welcome to the forum. It's nice to see people who are investigating/asking questions. I pray that Allah subhana wa ta'ala guides you to the right religion.
That being said, I must say I find some of your questions, how should I say this, "out of place". well, perhaps not your questions themselves, but the context in which you place them. I can't shake the feeling that you're sort of "shopping" for a religion. Looking whether or not Islam fits your personal preference. If you ask me, choosing religions shouldn't be about what you like or dislike, but rather about what you think is true or false.
No hard feelings I hope, just adding my two cents ^_^
Wow. You make such a great point.

In fact, I already started listing what I actually believe on paper, and I hope that in a few days I will be able to share with you the list - and then to compare it to islam.

I need time to think.
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-30-2009, 04:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Hello,

19 year old white male interested in Islam. However, I completely reject Christ as the son of god.

furthermore, i lean more towards paganism. I am just here to learn. And yes, i LOVE black metal - and no, I promise I am not a troll.

Many blessings,
Rick
Welcome. What is your reason for liking black metal? I was into funeral doom metal, doom/death metal, melodic doom metal etc. I am not sure how one can lead a life as a believer, especially a Muslim, while truly believing in what the metal bands have to say in these lyrics. Black metal is even worse, throw in blasphemous and iconoclastic ideologies. I came across an Oriental black metal band from Saudi Arabia called Al-Nimrood (the mushrik from Quran), most of its members seem atheists at least from their lyrics against Allah (swt). Black funeral metal (one such band is Funeral Mourning for example) takes it to the next heights of nihilism, depression, and pessimism.

How do you function properly while in the US army while listening to black metal? Am I wrong to assume that you listen to metal only for fun (getting kicks from growls and those riffs) and do not let it effect your emotions? Cuz at least I did that and as a result I am sitting in my parents' basement for the last 2 years, cut off from the outside world, and depending on them like a leech with no future prospects whatsoever except death which is inevitable.

So I think to accept Allah as your Perfect Lord you will have to get out of black metal or any music ... a tough job to do as I am still living with the sin.
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 10:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
Welcome. What is your reason for liking black metal? I was into funeral doom metal, doom/death metal, melodic doom metal etc. I am not sure how one can lead a life as a believer, especially a Muslim, while truly believing in what the metal bands have to say in these lyrics. Black metal is even worse, throw in blasphemous and iconoclastic ideologies. I came across an Oriental black metal band from Saudi Arabia called Al-Nimrood (the mushrik from Quran), most of its members seem atheists at least from their lyrics against Allah (swt). Black funeral metal (one such band is Funeral Mourning for example) takes it to the next heights of nihilism, depression, and pessimism.

How do you function properly while in the US army while listening to black metal? Am I wrong to assume that you listen to metal only for fun (getting kicks from growls and those riffs) and do not let it effect your emotions? Cuz at least I did that and as a result I am sitting in my parents' basement for the last 2 years, cut off from the outside world, and depending on them like a leech with no future prospects whatsoever except death which is inevitable.

So I think to accept Allah as your Perfect Lord you will have to get out of black metal or any music ... a tough job to do as I am still living with the sin.
Welcome brother.

First off, thank you for welcoming me on the forum.

Second, I would like to address this by paragraph, so bear with me!
My reason for liking black metal? It promotes independence and free thinking! I would of never of considered Islam if it was not for black metal! To think for myself, aside from what western media portrays muslims as could not of been done without some kind of free thought. And I do not think they are atheist or even believe the lyrics they are saying - many pretend satanism (very well, actually) But just to keep the music underground. Again, it values independence and free thinking. Something I think every muslim enjoys - the greatest gift of man is to Reason. With Reason, he can see Allah exists. He can also see due to limited circumstance that Allah may not exist, but this is just a reasoning error, if thought upon too hard, he will see the fault in it.

As for functioning in the army, how is that an issue? I know plenty of soldiers who enjoy metal, including the black variety. The lyrics again, aim more at overcoming ones obstacles, and being free. For example, take Gaahl of Gorgoroth, or Varg Vikernes of Burzum - they may sound "satanic" but at least one of them is Pagan. It is the same with many bands. They use the name of Satanism in the general sense of one who opposes christanity, and not logic and reason. In fact, to say that any human is a son of god is ridiculous - even you can agree to that. Again, Satan is just an image of Arche-type of freedom from notions, reasoning for oneself, and thinking of everything one has learned anew. Something that christanity does not allow - but Islam, as far as I can tell, does.

Again, blaming Funeral Doom for your depression is not quite correct - I daresay, for people who actually like the music and play it, hearing it is a relief - they know that they can let that emotion out and move on. That is how it is for me - I am lightened when I hear the music because I know someone else feels the same way.

I mean NO disrespect in the above, and is simply my viewpoint. I would like to add that I am not muslim, but I am trying to use my God-given sense of reason to reach a point of logic.
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-30-2009, 11:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Welcome brother.

First off, thank you for welcoming me on the forum.

Second, I would like to address this by paragraph, so bear with me!
My reason for liking black metal? It promotes independence and free thinking! I would of never of considered Islam if it was not for black metal! To think for myself, aside from what western media portrays muslims as could not of been done without some kind of free thought. And I do not think they are atheist or even believe the lyrics they are saying - many pretend satanism (very well, actually) But just to keep the music underground. Again, it values independence and free thinking. Something I think every muslim enjoys - the greatest gift of man is to Reason. With Reason, he can see Allah exists. He can also see due to limited circumstance that Allah may not exist, but this is just a reasoning error, if thought upon too hard, he will see the fault in it.

As for functioning in the army, how is that an issue? I know plenty of soldiers who enjoy metal, including the black variety. The lyrics again, aim more at overcoming ones obstacles, and being free. For example, take Gaahl of Gorgoroth, or Varg Vikernes of Burzum - they may sound "satanic" but at least one of them is Pagan. It is the same with many bands. They use the name of Satanism in the general sense of one who opposes christanity, and not logic and reason. In fact, to say that any human is a son of god is ridiculous - even you can agree to that. Again, Satan is just an image of Arche-type of freedom from notions, reasoning for oneself, and thinking of everything one has learned anew. Something that christanity does not allow - but Islam, as far as I can tell, does.

Again, blaming Funeral Doom for your depression is not quite correct - I daresay, for people who actually like the music and play it, hearing it is a relief - they know that they can let that emotion out and move on. That is how it is for me - I am lightened when I hear the music because I know someone else feels the same way.

I mean NO disrespect in the above, and is simply my viewpoint. I would like to add that I am not muslim, but I am trying to use my God-given sense of reason to reach a point of logic.
Interesting. Of course, reasoning is innate to mankind. And Islam promotes reasoning. As you progress in your studies of Islam, you will, however, realize that Islam is also submission to Allah (swt). In other words, if something which Allah (swt) has said does not seem reasonable to us, we do not reject it as submitters to Allah. Important: one has to use their intellect/reason/logic/mind 100% to establish that there is a God and that God is Allah and He chose Islam to send His message. Submission part comes once reason has guided the mankind to realization.

Sure, funeral doom metal felt like my savior. It talked to the hurt emotions which the world kicks around and does not care about. It stimulated my thinking and artistic skills too. I found that I wrote amazing poetry when I was in "trance stages" while listening to doom metal. Shape of Despair, Katatonia, Rapture, Insomnium, Agalloch, all of them seemed to understand me better than humans. But, metal's harmful effects are also visible to me now as I sit here looking back at my past. Maybe not everyone will face these effects, I certainly did. And that is what my post was about.

Satanism in metal might have some links to promoting free reasoning. It surely is a response to the Christian ideologies. Just like how Enlightenment in Europe followed Inquisition and Protestant Reformation. It seems to be more of a rebellious response. Maybe a sarcastic way to rebelling against Christian ideologies? It's very clear in the videos of Dimmu Borgir, songs by Burzum and Behemoth.

May Allah help and guide your search towards reality.
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 11:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
Interesting. Of course, reasoning is innate to mankind. And Islam promotes reasoning. As you progress in your studies of Islam, you will, however, realize that Islam is also submission to Allah (swt). In other words, if something which Allah (swt) has said does not seem reasonable to us, we do not reject it as submitters to Allah. Important: one has to use their intellect/reason/logic/mind 100% to establish that there is a God and that God is Allah and He chose Islam to send His message. Submission part comes once reason has guided the mankind to realization.

Sure, funeral doom metal felt like my savior. It talked to the hurt emotions which the world kicks around and does not care about. It stimulated my thinking and artistic skills too. I found that I wrote amazing poetry when I was in "trance stages" of doom metal. But, its harmful effects are also visible to me. Maybe not everyone will face these effects, I certainly did. And that is what my post was about.

May Allah help and guide your search towards reality.
Thanks again.

I am in no way saying you are weak - but that everyone takes things differently. I'm sure you can understand :)

I will continue my studies, my Qur'an should be here in first week of Jan. :)
Reply

- IqRa -
12-30-2009, 11:31 AM
Peace be upon those who follow guidance

A bit late, but welcome to the forum. I pray you get guided to the straight path - don't let minor things affect your belief, e.g. music. Look inside the religion, at the basics, first, and then go deeper. I would advice to start off with the Qur'aan.

Also, to listen to this and read the subtitles also;

A Meeting with Allaah

Chapter 55 of Holy Qur'aan - Surah Rahman
Reply

RickHolm
12-30-2009, 11:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by T.I.A
Peace be upon those who follow guidance

A bit late, but welcome to the forum. I pray you get guided to the straight path - don't let minor things affect your belief, e.g. music. Look inside the religion, at the basics, first, and then go deeper. I would advice to start off with the Qur'aan.

Also, to listen to this and read the subtitles also;

A Meeting with Allaah

Chapter 55 of Holy Qur'aan - Surah Rahman
Thankl you very much, this is exactly what I plan on doing :)
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- IqRa -
12-30-2009, 11:56 AM
Remember us in your prayers =)
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zakirs
12-31-2009, 12:05 PM
Wow welcome rick!.. Glad to know you are not following the herd/media. Please feel free to ask anything on the forum :).

Mean while if you have some time watch this documentary :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...phet+muhammad#
Reply

RickHolm
12-31-2009, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by zakirs
Wow welcome rick!.. Glad to know you are not following the herd/media. Please feel free to ask anything on the forum :).

Mean while if you have some time watch this documentary :)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...phet+muhammad#
Thank you very much, and i will watch it :)

Right now I am very busy finishing my demo tape, as I am behind... Once all of "this" is over, i have some new threads to make :)
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RickHolm
01-03-2010, 12:28 PM
Going to watch the video now :)
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zakirs
01-03-2010, 04:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by RickHolm
Going to watch the video now :)
salaams ,

how was it rick ? hope you liked it :(

I wanted to show you this video because it might give an idea of how the situation was when Prophet(peace be upon him) spoke of Islam for the first time. The difficulties he went through proves that being a prophet was not a luxury for him but a duty bestowed upon by god.Islam was never a prophet's religion ( be it jesus, mohammed , moses (peace be upon them ) ).It was all about GOD(Allah).

The videos also show some common people who live the life of a common muslim.
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RickHolm
01-03-2010, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by zakirs
salaams ,

how was it rick ? hope you liked it :(

I wanted to show you this video because it might give an idea of how the situation was when Prophet(peace be upon him) spoke of Islam for the first time. The difficulties he went through proves that being a prophet was not a luxury for him but a duty bestowed upon by god.Islam was never a prophet's religion ( be it jesus, mohammed , moses (peace be upon them ) ).It was all about GOD(Allah).

The videos also show some common people who live the life of a common muslim.
Only got to 15 min in cuz i started crying... :embarrass imsad

It's rtaher overwhelming and amazing... sure to watch later...


:statisfie
:Crescent:
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 01:32 AM
i loved the movie..

I WANT MORE....I already bought two books online about Muhammad (pbuh) ... One on muslim prayer, and another about the life of Muhammad (pbuh) ...

is there more "basic" vdeos i can see about islam?

thanks everyone so much...
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zakirs
01-04-2010, 10:48 AM
Salaams

Story of a convert :) [must watch] ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9yax...eature=related (part1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9yax...eature=related (part2)

Islamic empire of faith ( a much more detailed description of times of muhammad (pbuh) )

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&view=3&dur=3#
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 04:04 PM
thanks so much for the videos :)

i have them on my iPod (cept for the conversion story) and both are great... i loved theconversions tory. I'm going to keep looking and reading... I should get my Qur'an this week.

I'll take notes as I read to help learn...
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 08:39 PM
THe videos this time were great... really opened my eyes to culture :)

thank you so much!

Continue to give me websites, articles... At this point, I will read almost anything to broaden my worldview... It's a great feeling :)
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Obi97_Abdul
01-04-2010, 09:26 PM
Welcome To the Forum!!
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Obi97_Abdul
Welcome To the Forum!!
thank you bro :)
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cat eyes
01-04-2010, 09:34 PM
:sl:
Welcome to the forum i hope u benefit from it
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 09:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by cat eyes
:sl:
Welcome to the forum i hope u benefit from it
I already have, thanks so much:)
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UmmSqueakster
01-04-2010, 09:56 PM
I always love videos (and books) about the hajj. Haven't made it yet, but the husband and I are trying to save up to go in a few years inshaAllah :statisfie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_08gcu1LGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfqgwthoF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r1sZfce8jU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3BRae02UY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-9UT8Frx_k
Reply

RickHolm
01-04-2010, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
I always love videos (and books) about the hajj. Haven't made it yet, but the husband and I are trying to save up to go in a few years inshaAllah :statisfie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_08gcu1LGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfqgwthoF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r1sZfce8jU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV3BRae02UY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-9UT8Frx_k
great videos, thanks :)
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- Qatada -
01-04-2010, 11:16 PM
Hey Rickholme :)


Here's a good site with basic info on Islam;

http://islamreligion.com


And a nice vid [its either statements from Quran (the words of God), or words of Prophet Muhammad];

What does Islam really teach?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58
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RickHolm
01-04-2010, 11:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Hey Rickholme :)


Here's a good site with basic info on Islam;

http://islamreligion.com


And a nice vid [its either statements from Quran (the words of God), or words of Prophet Muhammad];

What does Islam really teach?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIxIk2Wta58
thanks, i'll check out the website first, and save the video for later :)
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