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Supreme
12-29-2009, 11:12 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8433704.stm
The Chinese ambassador Fu Ying has been summoned to the Foreign Office amid a growing row between the UK and China over the execution of a British man.

Akmal Shaikh, 53, a father-of-three from London, was executed in China after being convicted of drug smuggling despite claims he was mentally ill.

Foreign Office Minister Ivan Lewis told the ambassador "China had failed in its basic human rights responsibilities".

The Chinese Embassy said Mr Shaikh had no previous record of mental illness.

Mr Lewis said after the meeting: "I had a difficult conversation with the Chinese Ambassador today.


Foreign Office Minister Ivan Lewis: 'Mr Shaikh had mental health problems'
"I made clear that the execution of Mr Shaikh was totally unacceptable and that China had failed in its basic human rights responsibilities in this case, in particular that China's court had not considered the representations made about Mr Shaikh's mental condition.
Even though I'd like the UK to pursue friendly relations with China, I can't help but feel that I'm satisfied Gordon Brown is standing up for what he believes in and that the UK is not afraid to exercise its principals in the face of global powers like China. I also believe the Chinese were wrong to execute this man as he had mental conditions.
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Blackpool
01-02-2010, 08:08 PM
But he wasn't British. He was born in Pakistan which if I'm correct makes him a Pakistani who was fortunate to be handed British citizenship. To me, that doesn't make one British and these citizenships should be stopped from given out without good reason.

This guy was a drug smuggler, I have no sympathy for him over his execution. Drugs kill people. Drug smugglers play a huge role in killing people all for cash. He deserves to be executed.

Well done China. I wish Britain implemented the same laws in this land.
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 08:19 PM
I support China.
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aamirsaab
01-02-2010, 08:21 PM
:sl:
I also disagree with the execution; the guy had mental problems - he needed help, not an execution.
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 08:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
I also disagree with the execution; the guy had mental problems - he needed help, not an execution.
:wa:

Wouldn't you get mental health problems if you are going to take drugs?

:hmm:
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Supreme
01-02-2010, 08:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
But he wasn't British. He was born in Pakistan which if I'm correct makes him a Pakistani who was fortunate to be handed British citizenship. To me, that doesn't make one British and these citizenships should be stopped from given out without good reason.

This guy was a drug smuggler, I have no sympathy for him over his execution. Drugs kill people. Drug smugglers play a huge role in killing people all for cash. He deserves to be executed.

Well done China. I wish Britain implemented the same laws in this land.
He was tricked into carrying the drugs. He was mentally ill. He also has British citizenship, making him British enough for me.

You wish Britain imposed Medieval style laws on its people? China accounts for 75% of the executions in the world, and over 80 offenses are punishable by death.
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
But he wasn't British. He was born in Pakistan which if I'm correct makes him a Pakistani who was fortunate to be handed British citizenship. To me, that doesn't make one British and these citizenships should be stopped from given out without good reason.
Wut? O_o

If you get a British citizenship...your British.

This guy was a drug smuggler, I have no sympathy for him over his execution. Drugs kill people. Drug smugglers play a huge role in killing people all for cash. He deserves to be executed.
I support China strong stance on drugs, but I would not be happy to see people get executed. :/ I do hope his family are able to cope with this loss...

You wish Britain imposed Medieval style laws on its people? China accounts for 75% of the executions in the world, and over 80 offenses are punishable by death.
Drugs dealing is a serious crime, it leads to other crimes such as murder, rape, prostitution, robbery and leaves individuals with very bad mental health problems. The consequences are severe...I do support strong stance on drugs.

However if it was the case he was tricked smuggling drugs and he was taken advantage due to his mental health problems, China should not have executed him. Then again other countries cannot get involved in other countries internal affairs. I do believe Britain has a right to express itself however it cannot get tell other countries that to do...

Hope I did not contradict myself :/
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JoshuaD
01-02-2010, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
This guy was a drug smuggler, I have no sympathy for him over his execution. Drugs kill people. Drug smugglers play a huge role in killing people all for cash. He deserves to be executed.
The point of the outrage is that there were genuine concerns that he was mentally ill, if it was just a regular drug smuggler then it would be unlikely it would receive so much attention.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/de...mental-illness

He then started a prolonged email campaign, sharing his delusions with celebrities and government officials he had never met, firing off endless dispatches typed in an enormous 72-point font. Hundreds of emails sent by Shaikh to the British embassy in Warsaw from 2005 reveal the state of his mind. In the messages, obtained by Reprieve, he claimed to have spoken to the angel Gabriel and explained that he could have foiled the July 7 bombings in 2005, had he only been allowed to hold a press conference. One email appeared to be a letter to Father Christmas.

Some messages were copied in to a group of 74 organisations and individuals, including Tony Blair, Sir Paul McCartney, George W Bush and the BBC programme Top Gear.

But among the nonsense contained in the emails was information Shaikh's lawyers claim proves he had become involved with criminals who took advantage of his vulnerability. One mentioned a character called Carlos, who was going to help Shaikh achieve his dream of making it big in the music industry. Carlos, wrote Shaikh, had excellent contacts, and he knew a producer in Kyrgyzstan who could help him fulfil his dream of becoming a pop star. Though Shaikh had no singing experience, and even less musical talent, he recorded a song, an off-key track in English, Arabic and Polish called Come Little Rabbit, which, according to Reprieve, he truly believed had the potential to bring about world peace.

Today, two men who helped Shaikh record the song said it was clear he was psychiatrically ill. Gareth Saunders, a British teacher and musician who sang back-up on the song, said, "he clearly thought this song was going to have a very positive impact on the world".

He added: "It would be totally unlike him to get mixed up in drugs. However, it would be totally typical of him to fall for some kind of story that some drug dealer might spin to him concerning making his record in China … He would be so desperate for human contact that if some shady character came up to him to talk, Akmal would have gone on and on about his song, and it would have been easy for someone to see that he could be exploited."

It is Shaikh's case that back in 2007, "Carlos" told him that he knew people in the music industry that could assist and in September that year paid for a flight for Shaikh to Kyrgyzstan. There, his passport was taken by a gang of men – an act which did not unduly worry Shaikh, who believed he would soon be so famous that he would be recognised at every border crossing. When his passport was eventually returned, he was introduced to a man called Okole. This man, Shaikh claims he was told, ran a huge nightclub in China that would be the perfect venue for the debut performance of Come Little Rabbit.
Does this really sound like a man of sound mental judgment?

format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Well done China. I wish Britain implemented the same laws in this land.
Well, I'm glad the state sanctioned murder of the mentally ill died out after Nazi Germany.
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Humbler_359
01-02-2010, 08:45 PM
Real question is What was Akmal Shaikh doing in China ?

What China did is correct things. Don't play with China's policy.

China Zindabad !! :D
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Supreme
01-02-2010, 08:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359
Real question is What was Akmal Shaikh doing in China ?

What China did is correct things. Don't play with China's policy.

China Zindabad !! :D
He was trying to pursue a pop career, at 56, with a Chinese audience. Yes, he was that insane.
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Snowflake
01-02-2010, 08:54 PM
^and are you so sure China was in the right?@Humbler :hmm:

May Allah grant this man paradise and compensate his family for their loss. Ameen
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Güven
01-02-2010, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:wa:

Wouldn't you get mental health problems if you are going to take drugs?

:hmm:
try to explain that to a mentally ill person.
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 09:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
He was trying to pursue a pop career, at 56, with a Chinese audience. Yes, he was that insane.
Then I agree that he should not have been executed, but given serious medical attention.

format_quote Originally Posted by Humbler_359
Real question is What was Akmal Shaikh doing in China ?
How did he even get to China? He does not sound mentally stable from what Supreme posted.

format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
try to explain that to a mentally ill person.
Drug dealing is a serious problem that leads to other crimes. Deterrence needs to be upheld. From what Supreme posted, it conveys he was seriously mentally disturbed and someone must have taken advantage over him. I disagree with the ruling but I agree with drug dealers need to be executed, even though its harsh. :/

So yes I agree he should have received help.
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Güven
01-02-2010, 09:13 PM
I live in a country where you literally can buy drugs in a store and if you want stronger "stuff" you can always go to those men (sometimes kids) who are standing in every corner of the street. :hmm:
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CosmicPathos
01-02-2010, 09:24 PM
In a true Islamic state, such doubt on his mental stability and the possibility of being tricked into smuggling would nullify the application of Hudd or execution on this British-Pakistani dude. Hudd is applied when there is 100% certainty that the person smuggled drugs in all of his perfect senses, he was aware of the consequences, and was under no duress or threat from the Mafia gangs. And people have the audacity to say that Islamic law is barbaric?

Shame on barbaric pseudo-democratic communist China.
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Blackpool
01-02-2010, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Wut? O_o

If you get a British citizenship...your British.
Only on paper. A foreign immigrant granted British citizenship doesn't neccessarily mean he/she is British. Omar Bakri and Abu Hamza were both granted British citizenship. One was born in Egypt and the other was born in Lebanon, both of which have a deep hatred for Britain and its people.

For me, a Briton is one who is born here, anyone else is foreign.

Back on topic...
Mental issues mean nothing. Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda buddies all have mental issues and every one of them deserves to be killed. If he was USED then the Chinese government should have intervened to stop the execution.
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cat eyes
01-02-2010, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
But he wasn't British. He was born in Pakistan which if I'm correct makes him a Pakistani who was fortunate to be handed British citizenship. To me, that doesn't make one British and these citizenships should be stopped from given out without good reason..
according to the british immigration law when one is granted a british passport they become a british/pakistani citizen. i dont mean to be ignorant or anything blackpool but i am not even pakistani but im a little offended by your comment i just thought id point that out as not to offend any pakistani here who was raised in u.k since they were the age of a toddler!
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 09:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Only on paper. A foreign immigrant granted British citizenship doesn't neccessarily mean he/she is British. Omar Bakri and Abu Hamza were both granted British citizenship. One was born in Egypt and the other was born in Lebanon, both of which have a deep hatred for Britain and its people.
To obtain a British citizenship I'm pretty sure you have to take some tests and it could take years. It is not easy. Not all immigrants are the same, some do serve UK very well.

For me, a Briton is one who is born here, anyone else is foreign.
What is so special someone born in Britain than someone who comes here? What is wrong with being an immigrant? Some are hardworking and do dirty jobs.

Back on topic...
Mental issues mean nothing. Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda buddies all have mental issues and every one of them deserves to be killed. If he was USED then the Chinese government should have intervened to stop the execution.
How can you compare Osama with this individual who got executed? Mental health issues means everything in a criminal court. Intention to commit a crime is important, hence why there is difference between Manslaughter and Murder.

Medically it can be proven this individual was mentally unstable and did not know what he was doing. He should be at an mental institution. Osama knew what he did and medically it can be proven he was a rational thinking individual. Besides it cannot be proven Osama did 9/11.
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CosmicPathos
01-02-2010, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Only on paper. A foreign immigrant granted British citizenship doesn't neccessarily mean he/she is British. Omar Bakri and Abu Hamza were both granted British citizenship. One was born in Egypt and the other was born in Lebanon, both of which have a deep hatred for Britain and its people.

For me, a Briton is one who is born here, anyone else is foreign.

Back on topic...
Mental issues mean nothing. Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda buddies all have mental issues and every one of them deserves to be killed. If he was USED then the Chinese government should have intervened to stop the execution.
Ludicrous. A person born outside of UK from "british" parents is not a briton anymore? I thought English people had a homogenous genetic pool more or less? Welch, Scotts, Irish aside ....
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 09:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
Ludicrous. A person born outside of UK from "british" parents is not a briton anymore? I thought English people had a homogenous genetic pool more or less? Welch, Scotts, Irish aside ....
Its nationalism, people think they're special because of the country where they are born from. Nationalism an ideology serves no purpose but to create divide.
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Supreme
01-02-2010, 10:11 PM
Of course this man is British, he was legally recognized as such. Anyone who wasn't born in a country yet earns citizenship in that country also becomes a citizen of that country.
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Blackpool
01-02-2010, 11:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Of course this man is British, he was legally recognized as such. Anyone who wasn't born in a country yet earns citizenship in that country also becomes a citizen of that country.
Earn? British citizenship isn't earned, it's given away by the the current liberal party of Labour. British citizenship should be earned through the armed forces or through some sort of devotion to Britain. The Ghurkas deserve immediate citizenship.
However, this does not make them "British" but is a reward of residence and entitlement of the same benefits as a Briton. If they were born outside of Britain then he/she will never be British and that does include foreign-born children to British parents though they would likely follow their parent's traditions. I know my view will peeve a few off in here especially foreign British citizens....
The guy executed in China was not British but Pakistani with a British citizenship freebie.

This has steered off topic... Moving back.
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GuestFellow
01-02-2010, 11:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Blackpool
Earn? British citizenship isn't earned, it's given away by the the current liberal party of Labour. British citizenship should be earned through the armed forces or through some sort of devotion to Britain. The Ghurkas deserve immediate citizenship.
However, this does not make them "British" but is a reward of residence and entitlement of the same benefits as a Briton. If they were born outside of Britain then he/she will never be British and that does include foreign-born children to British parents though they would likely follow their parent's traditions. I know my view will peeve a few off in here especially foreign British citizens....

This has steered off topic...
To be honest British does not mean anything to me, nor does Pakistani. I just consider myself a human being. As long as I don't commit crime in the UK, comply with its laws and behave myself, eventually pay taxes, then I consider that should be enough to be considered as a loyal citizen. Not causing any problems to the government or its people. I will not however blindly support any government decision. Even if I was living in Pakistan or an Islamic state, I would not be loyal to the government if they were taking a decision which I regard as immoral.
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ardianto
01-03-2010, 09:35 AM
There are few grades in mental illness. Mad is classified as high grade mental illness, and a mad person is free from punishment. Bad temper is also classified as mental illness but in low grade, and a person in bad temper is not free from punishment.

The question is : Which grade is Akmal Shaikh's mental illness ?.
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sister herb
01-03-2010, 09:45 AM
By the way, how we can know he had mentally problems?

Is it some reason you can make crimes if you are mentally ill?

He committed crime and hopely knew already what kind of punishment he may get in China.

:phew
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JoshuaD
01-05-2010, 03:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
By the way, how we can know he had mentally problems?

Is it some reason you can make crimes if you are mentally ill?

He committed crime and hopely knew already what kind of punishment he may get in China.

:phew
A widespread opinion is that he was duped into carrying the drugs by a gang in Poland.
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AlHoda
01-07-2010, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
I live in a country where you literally can buy drugs in a store and if you want stronger "stuff" you can always go to those men (sometimes kids) who are standing in every corner of the street. :hmm:
:sl:

And where do you live?
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Blackpool
01-07-2010, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlHoda
:sl:

And where do you live?
It could be Amsterdam...? There are a few places that have relaxed laws on drugs. In Amsterdam I hear you can purchase cannabis behind the counter in a cafe. Cannabis is a legal substance and it's permissable to smoke it in the streets.
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