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OurIslamic
01-01-2010, 02:02 PM
I've been going on different Islamic hate sites, in order to learn why they do not believe in Islam and why they HATE it. I've found the following "pieces of evidence" which they claim shows how Islam is a hateful religion.

Please don't bash them, all I need is some help in refuting these pieces of evidence:

1) Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war (for example, political, economic, propaganda, population explosion). If they convert to Islam and pray and contribute to the cause of Islam (Jihad), let them go." (Koran 9:5)

2) "Non-Muslims MUST convert to Islam or they will be killed." (Koran 48:16)

3) "Fight the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) and extort money from them." (Koran 9:29)

4) "Mohammed, the messenger of Allah, and those who follow him (Muslims) are merciful to one another but harsh to the infidels (non-Muslims)." (Koran 48:29)

5) "Do not make friends with inferior people (Jews, Christians and all non-Muslims)." (Koran 3:118)

6) "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah." -- Mohamet (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 59).

7) "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in his cause, and slay and are slain." (Koran 9:111)

8) "Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." - Qur'an 8:40

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

9) The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

10) “Allah’s Apostle (Mohamet) said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror’” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).

11) "When judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire." -- Mohammed (Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no. 5552.)

Please attempt to refute each piece of evidence directly.

Jazakallah
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OurIslamic
01-01-2010, 02:03 PM
This is what I've come up with so far (without directly refuting the quotes, I'm waiting for some advice as to what I should say):

"Most people who are against Islam do not understand Arabic, OR get their translations from unreliable sources. Can you link me to your sources? Also, some translators incorrectly translate the Qur'an (which is why it is ideal if you understand arabic or get a reliable translation). You can get a 100% reliable translation if you buy a Qur'an with an English translation that is printed by a reputable company. I noticed that in on of your quotes, you cited "Bukhari". He is a very reputable scholor. Just in the future, please attempt to translate the arabic yourself, or find someone who is unbiased (towards or against Muslims)."
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Insaanah
01-01-2010, 02:10 PM
:sl:

Is this link of any help?

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_de...Misconceptions

:sl:
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OurIslamic
01-01-2010, 02:22 PM
Fabulous! Jazakallah sister.
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Woodrow
01-01-2010, 03:55 PM
I highly discourage anyone going to hate sites for the purpose of refuting them. Those sites want us to go to them and engage in refutations. We are placing our selves in extreme danger of being mis-quoted and our words being twisted to appear we agree with them.

Typically if a Muslim finds themselves winning a debate or if the refutations are being read, the Muslim will soon find their account blocked and their posts edited to support the hate site.

I have personally had that happen to me on at least 2 hate forums.

A better approach is to not refute them on their forum where they can control what you say. Instead direct them to bring their questions or disagreements here or to any Muslim site of their choice.
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OurIslamic
01-01-2010, 04:01 PM
I understand. I probably won't be going on many of those sites anymore.....

After providing the link that Sister Insane Isaan linked to...several members started directing hateful comments towards me. I find it weird how they believe that Muslims are "evil" or "want to kill/oppress non-Muslims" when they, themselves, shut down anyone who tries to reason with them.
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KittenLover
01-01-2010, 04:04 PM
yeah, alot of the quotations you mentioned were revealed in a certain context and situation, and when taken out of that context and situation they can be made to look bad.

Alot of them if you read the previous verses and next verses, you'll find "fight those who fight you and expelled you from your homes" and so on :p

"make peace with them if they make peace with you for Allah loves not the aggressors"

but they're just taking the 1 verse and not reading the next few verses.
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Woodrow
01-01-2010, 07:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
I understand. I probably won't be going on many of those sites anymore.....

After providing the link that Sister Insane Isaan linked to...several members started directing hateful comments towards me. I find it weird how they believe that Muslims are "evil" or "want to kill/oppress non-Muslims" when they, themselves, shut down anyone who tries to reason with them.
Hate blinds a person from seeing anything except what they can twist to justify their hate.
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lifeguard
01-07-2010, 07:45 AM
Hi..I guess it has been said that these verses are quoted out of context and most of them were revealed during war time..And the verses before and after them reveal the real story..

For example..during the war in Vietnam, if President Bush were to say to his American soldiers after a few of their soldiers have been killed in an ambush...

'Kill any Vietnamese where you find him'

then it would sound appropriate since it is the state of war...and he said it to boost the morale of his army...

But if Bush or Obama were to say it today then it would be totally inappropriate and show aggressive and evil intent...
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Muslim Woman
01-07-2010, 08:04 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I highly discourage anyone going to hate sites for the purpose of refuting them........ Muslim will soon find their account blocked and their posts edited to support the hate site.

.

a very good post bro ( as usual ). Yes , those who want to know about Islam will visit any Islamic sites. It's unlikely that Islam bashers will allow Muslims to remove misconceptions about Islam in their hate sites.

So , OP , listen to our bro and don't visit anti-Islamic hate sites. May Allah reward you for ur good intentions.
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Eliphaz
01-07-2010, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by lifeguard
Hi..I guess it has been said that these verses are quoted out of context and most of them were revealed during war time..And the verses before and after them reveal the real story..

For example..during the war in Vietnam, if President Bush were to say to his American soldiers after a few of their soldiers have been killed in an ambush...

'Kill any Vietnamese where you find him'

then it would sound appropriate since it is the state of war...and he said it to boost the morale of his army...

But if Bush or Obama were to say it today then it would be totally inappropriate and show aggressive and evil intent...
Do you really feel it is justifiable under any circumstances to say "kill members of [any group of people categorised by beliefs or ethnicity] wherever you find them"? Do you not feel it needs to be written a bit more clearly if such words will be so easily taken out of context centuries later?

EDIT: Even I, as a disbeliever, can see that many of the quotes have been misquoted, particularly the verses of the Qur'an.
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cat eyes
01-07-2010, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I highly discourage anyone going to hate sites for the purpose of refuting them. Those sites want us to go to them and engage in refutations. We are placing our selves in extreme danger of being mis-quoted and our words being twisted to appear we agree with them.

Typically if a Muslim finds themselves winning a debate or if the refutations are being read, the Muslim will soon find their account blocked and their posts edited to support the hate site.

I have personally had that happen to me on at least 2 hate forums.

A better approach is to not refute them on their forum where they can control what you say. Instead direct them to bring their questions or disagreements here or to any Muslim site of their choice.
haha yeah whats the point
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MSalman
01-07-2010, 05:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Do you really feel it is justifiable under any circumstances to say "kill members of [any group of people categorised by beliefs or ethnicity] wherever you find them"?
yes, in the time of war, the enemies are to be slain and it is pretty stupid of someone to deny that. Maybe in your world, you have tea party with your enemies and give them your women (since they are so cheap in your society) but it doesn't happen in sane Islamic world.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Do you not feel it needs to be written a bit more clearly if such words will be so easily taken out of context centuries later?
no, we don't because people with few brain cells and some knowledge can understand the context and grasp the correct meaning. The humans are all about complaining and they can never be satisfied! If it was revealed the way you said, would you then have accepted truth?
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OurIslamic
01-07-2010, 07:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
yes, in the time of war, the enemies are to be slain and it is pretty stupid of someone to deny that. Maybe in your world, you have tea party with your enemies and give them your women (since they are so cheap in your society) but it doesn't happen in sane Islamic world.

no, we don't because people with few brain cells and some knowledge can understand the context and grasp the correct meaning. The humans are all about complaining and they can never be satisfied! If it was revealed the way you said, would you then have accepted truth?
Please don't personally attack someone, especially on my thread.
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aamirsaab
01-07-2010, 08:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Do you really feel it is justifiable under any circumstances to say "kill members of [any group of people categorised by beliefs or ethnicity] wherever you find them"? Do you not feel it needs to be written a bit more clearly if such words will be so easily taken out of context centuries later?

EDIT: Even I, as a disbeliever, can see that many of the quotes have been misquoted, particularly the verses of the Qur'an.
If one actually read the verse entirely (and with the approriate historical context), there wouldn't be any problem.

That goes for all of these verses cherry picked by critics. They'll give you half an ayat (you can tell because when you pick up a Qur'an, the sentence is much longer!) and say OMG OMG OMG ISLAM SAYS THIS SO WE SHOULD MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT IT.

P.s; there's approximately 6000 verses in the Qur'an. All the haters in the world will give you no more than 10 ''violent'' verses. Now, I'm not a mathematician by any means, but I do believe that's not even 1 percent of the Qur'an.

Edit: ourislamic, point 9 in your original post doesn't need refuting: it's a matter of fact!
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Italianguy
01-07-2010, 08:39 PM
There are sites made soley towards hate of Islam?? I didn't know that? Who are they, or what faith are they if any? I assume they are Atheism sites, or satanists?

What are some of there links? I wan't to see this. Do they hate Christians as well?
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aamirsaab
01-07-2010, 08:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
There are sites made soley towards hate of Islam?? I didn't know that? Who are they, or what faith are they if any? I assume they are Atheism sites, or satanists?

What are some of there links? I wan't to see this. Do they hate Christians as well?
There's different types.

Some are crazy christians (I call them crazy because from my recollection, hating anyone is a bad thing in Jesus' teachings)

Some are crazy athiests (I call them crazy because they don't know the basics of Islam but seek to debate about Sharia law. They also fall into hypocricy traps [I won't go into]) Some of these guys hate all religions (by all I mean, the ones they have heard of not neccessarily every religion - they're pretty dumb tbh) One in particular is on youtube. His name rhymes with Fat Mongrel (he's your typical crazy athiest).

Some are crazy ex-muslims (I call them crazy because, well they're just crazy) Actually, these tend to be the most frequent kind. On any one hater site, you probably have an ex-muslim. Maybe a group of them. You also get fake ex-muslims who cause the most trouble (you can tell they are fake by asking them simple questions, like: how many times a muslim is to pray a day. Or what shape is the Kabah.)

I have heard some crazy hindus mouthing off about Islam but that was on facebook.

They all have sites, which we have banned :)
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Italianguy
01-07-2010, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
There's different types.

Some are crazy christians (I call them crazy because from my recollection, hating anyone is a bad thing in Jesus' teachings)

Some are crazy athiests (I call them crazy because they don't know the basics of Islam but seek to debate about Sharia law. They also fall into hypocricy traps [I won't go into])

Some are crazy ex-muslims (I call them crazy because, well they're just crazy)

I have heard some crazy hindus mouthing off about Islam but that was on facebook.

They all have sites, which we have banned :)
soooooooo....basicaly just a bunch of crazy people?:p

I will have to check these out. It is against a Christians beleif to spread hate towards others in anyway, yes it would be against what Christ taught us. I know there are people in every faith that don't abide by what they are supposed to all the time....trust me I know A LOT of people , and some just have no clue.
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maisha
01-07-2010, 09:53 PM
i wonder why do people think we are evil we have no BAD intensions :(
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Italianguy
01-07-2010, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by maisha
i wonder why do people think we are evil we have no BAD intensions :(
Don't be sad. I don't think Muslims are evil at all.:D

There are radicals everywhere, in every faith, in all parts of the world, from every walk of life.

You want to know what i hate...NOTHING!...well.....spiders kinda creep me out:hmm:
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Eric H
01-07-2010, 10:16 PM
Greetings and peace be with you OurIslamic;

Whilst I agree with Brother Woodrow, you can’t change them, or argue with them, I do believe it is important to keep a peaceful Islamic presence on these sites.
What are some of there links? I wan't to see this. Do they hate Christians as well?
Like Italianguy said, can you give us any links please.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding

Eric
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AlHoda
01-07-2010, 10:18 PM
:sl:

I never knew how extreme these hateful non-muslims could go, May Allah protect us from them.

:wa:
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OurIslamic
01-07-2010, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Edit: ourislamic, point 9 in your original post doesn't need refuting: it's a matter of fact!
They say that the Prophet (S) started so many wars, and is contradicting himself by saying that "War is deceit".
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OurIslamic
01-07-2010, 11:03 PM
Sure, I don't want to post them here, so I'll post them on my site. I've already been reprimanded for posting links to hateful sites (in a thread which I was complaining about that site, and how disgusting it was).

I'll post the page here.
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lifeguard
01-08-2010, 01:04 AM
They say that the Prophet (S) started so many wars, and is contradicting himself by saying that "War is deceit".
You know and I know...that the Prophet (saw) did NOT start the wars...The non Muslims led by the Quraish started the wars...that's when Allah told Prophet Muhammad (saw) in these so called 'violent' verses by the non Muslims...to take up arms and fight them....do not be oppressed...

nearly all of the wars during that time were defensive (against oprression) wars...kindly correct me if i'm wrong...
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Muslim Woman
01-08-2010, 02:07 AM
Salaam/Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Eric H
Like Italianguy said, can you give us any links please.
I don't think it's a good idea to do a publicity of hateful sites . Also it's not allowed here .
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Italianguy
01-08-2010, 02:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/Peace



I don't think it's a good idea to do a publicity of hateful sites . Also it's not allowed here .
I'm sorry I shouldn't have asked to do thatimsad

I will find them myself.....you can google anything these days:D
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OurIslamic
01-08-2010, 04:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
I'm sorry I shouldn't have asked to do thatimsad

I will find them myself.....you can google anything these days:D
Don't worry about it, lol. I was going to PM you the links, not post them on a public thread which children can see.
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Italianguy
01-08-2010, 04:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
Don't worry about it, lol. I was going to PM you the links, not post them on a public thread which children can see.
Thanks Bro!

God be with you:D
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Skavau
01-08-2010, 04:56 AM
You will find that the out of all of the groups that, it is only likely to those to be of a religious affiliation (in this context, christians) that actually hate or fear muslims. I off and on participate in voice-chat software that has specific rooms set up by specific groups, and in particular the right-wing supporters of the republican party and the evangelical christians on there are essentially the only group that show contempt towards muslims (and atheists, as it goes).

Atheists who are critical of Islam do not hate Muslims, or are very unlikely to do so in my experience. They have no reason to. They only have ideological differences between Islam. Whereas Christians can literally view it was a righteous crusade to expel Islam from the world (Ann Coulter, Pat Robinson) and indeed, not mentioned as much are the counterpart Muslims that see it as righteous to eradicate all world views other than Islam from the planet.

I suspect many ex-muslims are more likely to feel pity and sorrow for people (rather than hatred) they see as repressed or oppressed. Some may be angry. But this is true of all apostates from all beliefs.
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Eliphaz
01-08-2010, 09:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by islamiclife
yes, in the time of war, the enemies are to be slain and it is pretty stupid of someone to deny that. Maybe in your world, you have tea party with your enemies and give them your women (since they are so cheap in your society) but it doesn't happen in sane Islamic world.
Define "enemy". Because your definition seems to be anyone sharing a certain characteristic (takfir). I won't comment on the rest as it is just inflammatory rambling, although the tea party part was quite amusing I have to admit.
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Eliphaz
01-08-2010, 09:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
If one actually read the verse entirely (and with the approriate historical context), there wouldn't be any problem.

That goes for all of these verses cherry picked by critics. They'll give you half an ayat (you can tell because when you pick up a Qur'an, the sentence is much longer!) and say OMG OMG OMG ISLAM SAYS THIS SO WE SHOULD MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT IT.

P.s; there's approximately 6000 verses in the Qur'an. All the haters in the world will give you no more than 10 ''violent'' verses. Now, I'm not a mathematician by any means, but I do believe that's not even 1 percent of the Qur'an.

Edit: ourislamic, point 9 in your original post doesn't need refuting: it's a matter of fact!
I know, but that less 1 per cent causes a lot of bloodshed due to its misinterpretation. Do you think God knew that this would happen, and if so, could he not have addressed the context in the verse itself? For example, could he not have said: "In times of war, when you are preemptively attacked, kill all those who attacked you wherever you find them"? In my opinion this is what the verse is saying and this would have been a much clearer way of putting it.
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aamirsaab
01-08-2010, 10:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I know, but that less 1 per cent causes a lot of bloodshed due to its misinterpretation. Do you think God knew that this would happen, and if so, could he not have addressed the context in the verse itself? For example, could he not have said: "In times of war, when you are preemptively attacked, kill all those who attacked you wherever you find them"? In my opinion this is what the verse is saying and this would have been a much clearer way of putting it.
I really don't see how much clearer God could possibly be on this matter. Read sura 9 verses 1 to 15 (particular emphasis on verses 3 - 5). Everything is explained with clarity.

Here, I'm feeling generous: click me for surah 9
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Eliphaz
01-08-2010, 02:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
I really don't see how much clearer God could possibly be on this matter. Read sura 9 verses 1 to 15 (particular emphasis on verses 3 - 5). Everything is explained with clarity.

Here, I'm feeling generous: click me for surah 9
Okay, for argument's sake, I'll paraphrase the passage and swap the word 'Pagan' (which, referring mainly to historical contexts has a tendancy to obscure the issue) with 'Hindu', for they are both terms referring to idol worshippers right?

A declaration of immunity from Allah and His Apostle, to those of the [Hindus] with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances... Go ye, then, for four months, backwards and forwards, throughout the land, but know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah (by your falsehood) but that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.

And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Apostle dissolve (treaty) obligations with the [Hindus]. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

(But the treaties are) not dissolved with those [Hindus] with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the [Hindus] wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

If one amongst the [Hindus] ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. How can there be a league, before Allah and His Apostle, with the [Hindus], except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for Allah doth love the righteous.

How (can there be such a league), seeing that if they get an advantage over you, they respect not in you the ties either of kinship or of covenant? With (fair words from) their mouths they entice you, but their hearts are averse from you; and most of them are rebellious and wicked.
For me, this passage reminds me of American foreign policy. If one so-called 'Muslim' blows up the twin towers, America says: "fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular oil pipelines and practise saying "God Bless America", then open the way for them: for America is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful".
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Woodrow
01-08-2010, 04:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Okay, for argument's sake, I'll paraphrase the passage and swap the word 'Pagan' (which, referring mainly to historical contexts has a tendancy to obscure the issue) with 'Hindu', for they are both terms referring to idol worshippers right?



For me, this passage reminds me of American foreign policy. If one so-called 'Muslim' blows up the twin towers, America says: "fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular oil pipelines and practise saying "God Bless America", then open the way for them: for America is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful".
Call me a cynic. There is no reason for the US to have any need for oil from the Mideast. There is plenty of untapped oil right here and our current oil in storage alone is sufficient to serve our needs for about 5 years. The Braken Field which extends from Northern Canada to under the States of Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and South Dakota is estimated to hold a minimum of 3 times the oil remaining in the entire Mideast, and it is virtually untapped. In the Dakotas the oil industry is putting it's efforts into the production of synthetics from Corn and Soy Beans with no development of the Braken Field.

To me it seems the goal is to stop Mideast oil production. Perhaps for the purpose of preventing China from getting it. Reopening the pipelines is probably the last thing the US wants to see happen.

At the moment keeping the region war torn and non productive is the goal. As long as it is benefiting the US to make oil sales difficult for the Mideast, there will be no change. Any incident will be used as an excuse to keep the region war torn.

Just my opinion, based on nothing except my own thoughts.
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Ramadhan
01-08-2010, 06:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
For me, this passage reminds me of American foreign policy. If one so-called 'Muslim' blows up the twin towers, America says: "fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular oil pipelines and practise saying "God Bless America", then open the way for them: for America is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful".
Just in case yo have not read/heard/watch any news in the past 9 years, let me tell you this one little secret:
The US has been doing that very thing mercilessly and MORE!

a quick check on reality here:
Once the twin tower collapsed, the US was instantly pointed the finger at Al Qaeda.
Soon after, the US hunted every single Al Qaeda member and went to attacked and invade Afghanistan where they believe Al Qaeda was hiding. And then the US went to bombed areas where the believe Al Qaeda hide, including area populated by civilians who had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. Thousands of women and children have been killed senselessly by the US and allied forces.

Not satisfied with killing civilians in afghanistan, the US went to invade Iraq where they claimed more Al Qaeda went to hide. And the killing spree of tens of thousands of more civilians continued.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-08-2010, 10:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
I've been going on different Islamic hate sites, in order to learn why they do not believe in Islam and why they HATE it. I've found the following "pieces of evidence" which they claim shows how Islam is a hateful religion.

Please don't bash them, all I need is some help in refuting these pieces of evidence:

1) Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war (for example, political, economic, propaganda, population explosion). If they convert to Islam and pray and contribute to the cause of Islam (Jihad), let them go." (Koran 9:5)

Most of the critics of Islam quote the verse kill the Mushrikoon (polytheists) where ever you find them , The Holy Quran, Chapter 9, Verse 5 to show that Quran Commands the killing of Disbelievers

This is quotation taken completely out of context. If you read the chapter(Surah At-Taubah) from the beginning the first verse talks about the treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (Pagans) of Mecca who used to persecute the muslims who as of yet had not retaliated.

Freedom from obligation (is proclaimed) from Allah and His messenger toward those of the idolaters with whom ye made a treaty , The Holy Quran, Chapter 9, Verse 1

In the next verse The Meccans are given four months time to set things right otherwise a declaration of War and coming to verse[9:5], the complete verse is

But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful." The Holy Quran, Chapter 9, Verse 5

Hence if you read this in context we know that this statement was made in the battle field. Critics often fail to quote with context. Infact in the battle the Quran Commands that a person who seeks asylum should be escorted to a place of security.

If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." The Holy Quran, Chapter 9, Verse 6

The Quran explicitly forbids killing. Whosoever kills a human being for other than Murder or Creating Mischief in the Land, it is as if he had killed the whole of Human Kind and whoso saved the life of one as if he has saved the life of all Mankind The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5, Verse 12

People must appreciate that the Quran contains instructions and details of incidents that occured in the past. In this case the historical background is relevant, as the reason for revelation was to enable the Muslims to defend themselves from the constant persecution from the meccans. This is not a general principle as anti islamists see it, which commands all muslims to kill disbelievers.

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
2) "Non-Muslims MUST convert to Islam or they will be killed." (Koran 48:16)
What has this to do with converting non Muslims and killing them if they don't convert? These verses are referring to the nomads or bedouins.

The verse 48:15 states:

Those who stayed behind will say when you set out to capture the spoils : 'Let us go with you!' Their aim is only to tamper with the word of Allah. Tell them clearly (O Mohammed) : 'You shall not come with us! Thus has Allah decreed. Then they will say : 'You begrudge us our share!' Nay, but they understand not - except a little!

(This refers to the Campaign against Khyber which the Muslims captured after returning from Hudaybiyah and also seized a great deal of booty from the fallen enemy to which the nomads also laid their claim. But since they had not participated in the battle, it was made clear to them that they were not entitled to a share).

Those who lagged behind will say, when you set forth to take the spoils, "Allow us to follow you.'' They want to change Allah's Words. Say: "You shall not follow us; thus Allah has said beforehand.'' Then they will say: "Nay, you envy us.'' Nay, but they understand not except a little.)

Allah characterizes the bedouins who lagged behind the Messenger of Allah during the `Umrah of Hudaybiyyah, saying that when the Prophet and his Companions later went on to conquer Khaybar, the bedouins asked them to take them along. They were hoping to collect war booty, having been absent when it was time to fight the enemy and enduring with patience therein. Allah the Exalted ordered His Messenger to refuse to give them permission to accompany him, being a punishment that is similar to their error.

Allah has promised those who were present at Al-Hudaybiyyah to earn Khaybar's war spoils alone, not shared in that with the bedouins who lagged behind. Therefore, the legislation that Allah gave in this regard was joined to the destiny that He decided, occurring just as He decided. Allah's statement,

According to tafsir of Ibn Kathir:

[يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُبَدِّلُواْ كَلَـمَ اللَّهِ] (They want to change Allah's Words), which refers to the promise that Allah gave those who were present at Al-Hudaybiyyah, according to the explanation reported from Mujahid, Qatadah, Juwaybir and which Ibn Jarir preferred. Allah said,


[قُل لَّن تَتَّبِعُونَا كَذَلِكُمْ قَالَ اللَّهُ مِن قَبْلُ] (Say: "You shall not follow us; thus Allah has said beforehand.'') `when He promised the participants of Al-Hudaybiyyah before you asked to join them,'


[فَسَيَقُولُونَ بَلْ تَحْسُدُونَنَا] (Then they will say: "Nay, you envy us.'') `you do not want us to share the war spoils with you,'


[بَلْ كَانُواْ لاَ يَفْقَهُونَ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً] (Nay, but they under- stand not except a little.) the truth is nothing close to what they claimed, but they understand not.


This is the translation of 48:16:

16. Qul lilmukhallafeena mina al-aAArabi satudAAawna ila qawmin olee ba/sin shadeedin tuqatiloonahum aw yuslimoona fa-in tuteeAAoo yu/tikumu Allahu ajran hasanan wa-in tatawallaw kama tawallaytum min qablu yuAAaththibkum AAathaban aleeman

Say to the nomads who stayed behind : 'You shall be called upon to fight an enemy of formidable strength and fight them until they surrender. If you obey, Allah will give you a generous reward; but if you shy away as you did shy away once before, He will deal out to you a harsh punishment.'

(The enemy of formidable strength mentioned in this verse refers to future campaigns against the Persians and the Romans and to many other fierce Arab tribes who reverted to apostasy after the death of the Prophet).

Context of Revelation : When the above verse was revealed, Muslims who were either partially or wholly disabled became concerned about their own participation in the war and sought clarification from the Prophet. This next verse was then revealed to allay their fears.

The Fabricated Excuse offered by Those Who lagged behind and did not participate in Al-Hلudaybiyyah; Allah's Warning for Them

Allah informs His Messenger of the excuses that the bedouins who lagged behind would offer him, those bedouins who preferred to remain in their homes and possessions and did not join the Messenger of Allah . They offered an excuse for lagging behind, as that of being busy -- in their homes and with their wealth! They asked the Messenger of Allah to invoke Allah to forgive them, not because they had faith in the Prophet and his invocation, but to show off and pretend. This is why Allah the Exalted said about them,


[يَقُولُونَ بِأَلْسِنَتِهِمْ مَّا لَيْسَ فِى قُلُوبِهِمْ قُلْ فَمَن يَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ مِّنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئاً إِنْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ ضَرّاً أَوْ أَرَادَ بِكُمْ نَفْعاً] (They say with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say: "Who then has any power at all (to intervene) on your behalf with Allah, if He intends you hurt or intends you benefit'') Allah says, none can resist what Allah has decided in your case, all praise and honor belong to Him. Allah is the Knower of your secrets and what your hearts conceal, even if you pretend and choose to be hypocritical with us. This is why Allah the Exalted said,


[بَلْ كَانَ اللَّهُ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيراً] (Nay, but Allah is Ever All-Aware of what you do.) then He said,


[بَلْ ظَنَنْتُمْ أَن لَّن يَنقَلِبَ الرَّسُولُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ إِلَى أَهْلِيهِمْ أَبَداً] (Nay, but you thought that the Messenger and the believers would never return to their families,) `for your lagging behind was not an excusable act or just a sin. Rather, your lagging behind was because of hypocrisy and because you thought that the Muslims would be killed to the extent of extermination, their lives would be extinguished and none of them will ever come back,'


[وَظَنَنتُمْ ظَنَّ السَّوْءِ وَكُنتُمْ قَوْماً بُوراً] (and you did think an evil thought and you became a people Bur) going for destruction, according to `Abdullah bin `Abbas, Mujahid and several others. Qatadah explained Bur to mean, corrupt and some said that it is a word used in the Arabic dialect of the area of Oman. Allah the Exalted then said,


[وَمَن لَّمْ يُؤْمِن بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ] (And whosoever does not believe in Allah and His Messenger,) Allah states here that whoever does not purify his actions outwardly and inwardly for Allah's sake, then Allah the Exalted will punish him in the Blazing Fire, even if he pretends to show people that he follows the faith, contradicting his true creed. Allah the Exalted then states that He is the Only Authority, King and Owner Who has full control over the residents of the heavens and earth,


[يَغْفِرُ لِمَن يَشَآءُ وَيُعَذِّبُ مَن يَشَآءُ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ غَفُوراً رَّحِيماً] (He forgives whom He wills, and punishes whom He wills. And Allah is Forgiving, Most Merciful.) with those who repent, return and submit to Him with humiliation.


48 : 17

17. Laysa AAala al-aAAma harajun wala AAala al-aAAraji harajun wala AAala almareedi harajun waman yutiAAi Allaha warasoolahu yudkhilhu jannatin tajree min tahtiha al-anharu waman yatawalla yuAAaththibhu AAathaban aleeman

There is no blame on the blind, nor is there a blame on the lame, nor is there a blame on the sick (for not participating in war). Whoever obey Allah and His messenger, He will enter them into Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoever turn their faces away, He will inflict upon them a painful retribution.


format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
3) "Fight the people of the Book (Jews and Christians) and extort money from them." (Koran 9:29)
The verse says “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth”.

Does this verse stop here? No it doesnt. It continues and gives the actual reason as to the fighting. This is the continuation: – “until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”.

1. PAYING JIZYA IS THE CONDITION FOR FIGHTING. THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALLY IGNORED OR OVERLOOKED WHEN LEVYING THIS ALLEGATION OF VIOLENCE ON MUSLIMS.

This verse doesn’t ask the Muslims to do mindless slaughter as the media portrays or deceives. It gives the Muslims the permission to fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax. And we all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. Neither India, nor US or Britain are Islamic states. So to put this verse as an excuse for what happened there only shows how biased, unknowledgable and unfair the media is and it hurts us deeply.


2. THE VERSE DOES NOT ASK THE MUSLIMS TO DO FORCEFUL CONVERSIONS.

Again, the verse permits the muslims to fight the non –muslims in an Islamic state ONLY and ONLY if they refuse to pay the jizya – Willingly . Re-read the verse from ANY translation if you are not sure. But once they pay the jizya tax they can continue to believe in their atheistic pagan beliefs, but it will be under an Islamic state. You can still forgive them by not forcing them into Islam, nor oppressing them or being bad to them because of their wrong beliefs.

3. QURAN NEVER SAYS TO KILL THE DISBELIEVERS JUST BECAUSE THEY DISBELIEVE.

I openly challenge anyone to show ONE verse from the Quran which says to kill the disbelievers just because they are disbelievers. There are verses which permit the Muslims to fight and kill non-Muslims. But every time sensible and reasonable conditions are laid out.

I can show you all verses from other religious scriptures where slaughtering is done for reasons that are as silly and stupid as honor, glory and greatness. Sometimes for fun too.

4. JIZYA ISN’T A RANSOM OR A BAD THING

Coming back to the verse, now people might say isn’t it unfair that they have to pay the jizya tax? Not really. Since when is punishment for refusal to pay lawful taxes considered as terrorism? Also, the jizya tax is very cheap and affordable, and it grants the non-Muslim’s many benefits, benefits which even the Muslims don’t get! For instance, the non-Muslims who are paying jizya in an Islamic state are not obliged to take part in any battle or war, unless they themselves choose to, the Muslims do not have this choice. Muslims have to actually burn their asses out to protect both Muslims and non-Muslims living in their lands.

Also if the Islamic state cannot grant protection to the non-Muslims then the non-Muslims are not obliged to pay the jizya tax, since Muslims themselves must meet expectations for the jizya tax to be implemented. Also, Society today has no problem in paying taxes to the government, so therefore they should have no problem in paying a tax in an Islamic state either.

So we can clearly see that verse 9:29 does NOT encourage the muslims to commit acts of terrorism. It is a perfectly fair and just verse and haters of Islam always try to take things out of context.

5. EVERY AUTHENTIC TRANSLATION OF THE QURAN HAS THE WORD “UNTIL” OR “TILL” IN THE VERSE 9:29


Here are 7 different english translations of 9:29 in the Qur'an giving the same condition:-

1. “[And] fight against those who – despite having been vouchsafed revelation [aforetime] – do not [truly] believe either in God or the last Day, and do not consider forbidden that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and do not follow the religion of truth [which God has enjoined upon the], till they [agree to] pay the exemption tax with a willing hand, after having been humbled [in war]” 9:29 Asad’s Translation

2. “Fight those people of the Book (Jews and Christians) who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, do not refrain from what has been prohibited by Allah and His Rasool and do not embrace the religion of truth (Al-Islam), until they pay Jizya (protection tax) with their own hands and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29 Malik’s Translation

3. “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth (even if they are) of the People of the Book until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29 Yusuf Ali’s Translation

4. “Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.” 9:29 Pickthall’s Translation

5. “Fight against those who believe not in Allâh, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” 9:29 Muhsin Khan’s Translation

6. “Fight those People of the Book who do not believe in Allah, nor in the Last Day, and do not take as unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have declared as unlawful, and do not profess the Faith of Truth; (fight them) until they pay jizyah with their own hands while they are subdued.” 9:29 Mufti Taqi Usmani’s Translation

7. “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.” 9:29 Sahih International Translation

6. FIGHTING NEED NOT ALWAYS BE PHYSICAL, IT CAN ALSO BE INTELLECTUAL

Finally, people might now say well isn’t Islam violent because Muslims are commanded to fight those who do not believe in God and so on etc etc. Not really, because fighting in this verse does not explicitly mean physical violence. Observe the words in the above verses like “willingly”, “willing submission”, “readily” etc. Here it is spoken about bringing a change from within the hearts of people which is brought about intellectually.

There are many ways in which you fight against somebody that does not involve a physical aspect. You can fight someone with the tongue, using your wisdom and telling him about the truth, you are fighting against the lies that person is propagating and eventually with your tongue you will speak the truth and crush his lies leading him to the truth. So fighting does not have to only be physical.


format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
4) "Mohammed, the messenger of Allah, and those who follow him (Muslims) are merciful to one another but harsh to the infidels (non-Muslims)." (Koran 48:29)
The Arabic word “ashidda” does not mean ruthless, but strong and firm. Ruthless is an unacceptable translation. Translations of ashidda:

Pickthall: hard; Yusuf Ali: strong; Daryabadi: stern; Khan-Hilali: severe; F. Malik: strong; Shakir: firm of heart; Arberry: hard; Irving: strict

Also, the disbelievers being referred to in these verses are the those who persecuted and attacked the Muslims. Shaykh Fawzee Al-Atharee said the following:

And similarly the disbeliever, if he has good character with us and good manners with us and good way and treatment with us, then we have good manners with him, good behaviour with him, good way with him and good treatment of him. And if his manners are bad and his behaviour is bad [i.e. abusive and cruel], then we treat him with accordance to how he is treating us. This is something permissible in the legislation. But the Prophet s.a.w.s. has indicated very clearly in all the narrations that have been brought and throughout his life, that there must be a matter of balance and to be just. And that is in dealing with the people of disbelief and also in dealing with those who have faith.

The Muslims were commanded to stand up for their religion and defend themselves against the persecution of the disbelievers. Again, if we examine the historical context, we also find that this is referring to those who attacked the Muslims continuously. So verses apply in a situation similar to the historical context.

Since this verse mentions the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and praises their path, let us examine some narrations about the companions. Musab bin Umair was a notable companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). He was sent to Madinah to share the message of Islam with the people living there. One incident of his related as follows:

Once Musab and Sad were sitting near a well in an orchard of the Zafar clan. With them were a number of new Muslims and others who were interested in Islam. A powerful notable of the city, Usayd ibn Khudayr, came up brandishing a spear. He was livid with rage. Sad ibn Zararah saw him and told Musab: “This is a chieftain of his people. May God place truth in his heart.” “If he sits down, I will speak to him,” replied Musab, displaying all the calm and tact of a great daiy. The angry Usayd shouted abuse and threatened Musab and his host. “Why have you both come to us to corrupt the weak among us? Keep away from us if you want to stay alive.” Musab smiled a warm and friendly smile and said to Usayd: “Won’t you sit down and listen? If you are pleased and satisfied with our mission. accept it and if you dislike it we would stop telling you what you dislike and leave.” “That’s reasonable,” said Usayd and, sticking his spear in the ground, sat down. Musab was not compelling him to do anything. He was not denouncing him. He was merely inviting him to listen. If he was satisfied, well and good. If not, then Musab would leave his district and his clan without any fuss and go to another district. Musab began telling him about Islam and recited the Quran to him. Even before Usayd spoke, it was clear from his face, now radiant and expectant, that faith had entered his heart. He said: “How beautiful are these words and how true! What does a person do if he wants to enter this religion?” “Have a bath, purify yourself and your clothes. Then utter the testimony of Truth (Shahadah), and perform Salat. Usayd left the gathering and was absent for only a short while. He returned and testified that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. (Source:http://www.islamicawakening.com/view...?articleID=833)

So we find that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his companions displayed the best character and attitude towards all people and this is what drew so many people to Islam. As the God says in the Qur’an:

3:159. And by the Mercy of God, you dealt with them gently. And had you been severe and harsh-hearted, they would have ran away from about you; so pass over (their faults), and ask (God’s) Forgiveness for them; and consult them in the affairs. Then when you have taken a decision, put your trust in Allah, certainly, Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was commanded by God to bring people to the teachings of Islam through the beautiful character that Muslims must show. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) conveyed this message to others by saying:

He who is not merciful to others, will not be treated mercifully. (Muslim, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 42)

And there are numerous examples one could quote which illustrate the kind and loving nature of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Narrated Abu Huraira: A disbelieving Bedouin urinated in the mosque, and the people rushed to beat him. Allah’s Apostle ordered them to leave him, let him finish and pour a bucket or a tumbler (full) of water over the place where he has passed urine. The Prophet then explained to the Bedouin calmly, “This is a place of worship, in it is the worship of God and the reading of Qur’an.”

After the Bedouin had left, the Prophet then said to his companions, ” You have been sent to make things easy (for the people) and you have not been sent to make things difficult for them.” (Muslim, Book 2, Number 559 and Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 149)

This narration, on its own, is sufficient to refute the claim that Islam is intolerant. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not show any anger or resentment to a non-Muslim who urinated in the Muslims place of worship! So Islam teaches gentleness in all things. As the Prophet Muhammad(Pbuh) said:

Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good. (Muslim, Book 32, Number 6270 & Abu Dawood, Book 41, Number 4791)

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) always displayed tolerance and compassion in his dealings with people, including Non-Muslims. Dr. M. Hamidullah explains the following points:

When the Prophet Mohammed(Pbuh) settled down in Medina, he found there complete anarchy, the region having never known before either a State or a king to unite the tribes torn by internecine feuds. In just a few weeks, he succeeded in rallying all the inhabitants of the region into order. He constituted a city state, in which Muslims, Jews, pagan Arabs and also probably a small number of Christians, all entered into a statal organism by means of a social contract.

The constitutional law of this first ‘Muslim’ State - which was the confederacy as a sequence of the multiplicity of the population groups - has come down to us in toto, and we read therein not only in clause 25: “to Muslims their religion, and to Jews their religion,” or, “that there would be benevolence and justice,” but even the unexpected passage in the same clause 25: “the Jews . . . are a community (in alliance) with - according Ibn Hisham and in the version of Abu-‘Ubaid, a community (forming part) of - the believers (i.e., Muslims).”

The very fact that, at the time of the constitution of this city-state, the autonomous Jewish villages acceded of their free will to the confederal State, and recognized Muhammad as their supreme political head, implies in our opinion that the non-Muslim subjects possessed the right of votes in the election of the head of the Muslim State, at least in so far as the political life of the country was concerned. (Hamidullah, Introduction to Islam, paragraphs 414-416)

During the life of Prophet Muhammad, there was a Jewish synagogue in Madinah and an educational institute known as Bait Al-Midras. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) preserved and protected both of them.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also honored a group of Christians of najran from Yemen, when they visited his mosques in Madinah. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) held interfaith discussions with them and they prayed in the Mosque in the Christian fashion while the Muslims prayed in the Islamic tradition. The Prophet Muhammad’s tolerance is also illustrated in the following narration:

Once the Prophet was seated at some place in Madinah, along with his Companions. During this time a funeral procession passed by. On seeing this, the Prophet stood up. One of his Companion remarked that the funeral was that of a Jew. The Prophet replied, “Was he not a human being?” (Bukhari, Muslim)

If every human being in this world saw the various ethnicities and cultures with these eyes, the world would flourish in peace and harmony. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) set an example for his companions to follow in the way he showed respect and kindness to Non-Muslims.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also advised his companion Mu’adh ibn Jabal by saying:

No Jew is to be annoyed because of their Judaic faith.

We must also examine the Prophet Muhammad’s(Pbuh) teachings towards neighbors:

Abu Huraira (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer.’’ It was asked, “Who is that, O Messenger of Allah?’’ He said, “One whose neighbor does not feel safe from his evil”. (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

“He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbor, should speak good or keep quiet.” (Bukhari, Muslim)

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also clearly specified that a Non-Muslim neighbor should receive this excellent treatment:

“Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God.” (Bukhari)

“He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgment.” (Bukhari)

It is fascinating to note that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was so vocal in his support of good treatment towards humanity that he would even be prepared to stand on the side of the Non-Muslims against the Muslims who did not follow his teachings. This is true justice and this is what lead to the peace and prosperity that Islam brought into the world. The excellent character of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has been noted by many Non-Muslim historians as well, and in fact anyone who has studied his life carefully has been amazed at the golden character of this human being. Washington Irving notes in his book ‘Mahomet and His Successors’:

In his private dealings he was just. He treated friends and strangers, the rich and poor, the powerful and weak, with equity, and was beloved by the common people for the affability with which he received them, and listened to their complaints.

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
5) "Do not make friends with inferior people (Jews, Christians and all non-Muslims)." (Koran 3:118)
Islam does not prohibit Muslims from being kind and generous to people of other religions, even if they are idolaters and polytheists. However, Islam looks upon the People of the Book, that is, Jews and Christians, with special regard, whether they reside in a Muslim society or outside it.

The Qur'an never addresses the Jews and Christians without saying, "O People of the Book" or "O You who have been given the Book," indicating that they were originally people of a revealed religion. For this reason, there exists a relationship of mercy and spiritual kinship between them and Muslims, all having in common the principles of the one true religion sent by Allah through His Prophets (peace and blessings are upon them all). In the Qur'an, Allah says, (He has ordained for (the Muslims) the same religion which He enjoined on Noah, and that which We have revealed to thee (Muhammad) and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: that you should establish the faith and make no division in it) (Ash-Shura 42:13).

Muslims are required to believe in all the Books revealed by Allah and in all the Prophets sent by Him, otherwise they are not considered true believers. Allah says in the Qur'an as follows:

(Say:We (Muslims) believe in Allah and in what He has revealed to us, and in what He revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes (of Israel), and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and in what was given to (all) the prophets by their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.) (Al-Baqarah 2:136)

Consequently, if the People of the Book read the Qur'an, they will find in it praise for their Books, Messengers, and Prophets.

In having dialogue with the People of the Book, Muslims should avoid such approaches that may cause bitterness or arouse hostility, Allah says, (And do not dispute with the People of the Book except by (the way) which is best, unless it be with such of them as transgress, and say, 'We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, and our God and your God is one, and to Him do we submit.') (Al-`Ankabut 29:46)

We have already seen how Islam permits eating with the People of the Book, sharing the meat they slaughter, and marrying their women, marriage being a relationship of mutual love and mercy. Almighty Allah says, (The food of those who were given the Scripture (before you) is permitted to you and your food is permitted to them. And (lawful to you in marriage are) chaste women from among the Believers and chaste women from among those who were given the Scripture before you) (Al-Ma'idah 5:5).

Non-Muslim Citizens of a Muslim State

The above injunctions include all People of the Book wherever they may be. Those people who live under the protection of an Islamic government enjoy special privileges. They are referred to as "the protected people" (ahl adh-dhimmah or dhimmis), meaning that Allah, His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), and the community of Muslims have made a covenant with them that they may live in safety and security under the Islamic government.

In modern terminology, dhimmis are "citizens" of the Muslim state. From the earliest period of Islam to the present day, Muslims are in unanimous agreement that dhimmis enjoy the same rights and carry the same responsibilities as Muslims themselves, while being free to practice their own faiths.

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) emphasized the duties of Muslims toward dhimmis, threatening anyone who violates them with the wrath and punishment of Allah. The Prophet is reported to have said, "He who hurts a dhimmi hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah" (At-Tabarani).

He also says, "Whoever hurts a dhimmi, I am his adversary, and I shall be an adversary to him on the Day of Resurrection" (Al-Khatib).

"On the Day of Judgment, I will dispute with anyone who oppresses a person from among the People of the Covenant, or infringes upon his right, or puts a responsibility on him which is beyond his strength, or takes something from him against his will" (Abu Dawud).

The successors of the Prophet safeguarded these rights and sanctities of non-Muslim citizens, and the jurists of Islam, in spite of the variation of their opinions regarding many other matters, are unanimous in emphasizing these rights and sanctities.

Shahab Ad-Deen Al-Qarafi, the Maliki jurist, states the following:

The covenant of protection imposes upon us certain obligations toward ahl adh-dhimmah. They are our neighbors, under our shelter and protection upon the guarantee of Allah, His Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) and the religion of Islam. Whoever violates these obligations against anyone of them, by damaging his reputation, or by doing him some injury, has breached the Covenant of Allah, His Messenger, and his conduct run counters to the teachings of Islam. (Al-Furuq)

And Ibn Hazm, the Zahiri jurist, said the following:

If a dhimmi is threatened by an enemy, it is our obligation to fight the enemy with soldiers and weapons. With this, we will be honoring the Covenant of Allah and His Messenger. To hand him over to the enemy would mean to betrayal to the Covenant of Allah and His Messenger. (Marati bAl-Ijma')

Concept of Amicable Dealings with Non-Muslims

Now the following question arises: How can we show kindness, affection, and good treatment to non-Muslims since Allah the Almighty prohibits Muslims to take non-believers as patrons, allies, and supporters in such verses as the following:

(O you who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as friends; they are the friends (only) of each other. And whoever among you turns to them (for friendship) is certainly one of them; indeed, Allah does not guide the people who do wrong. Yet thou seest those in whose hearts is a disease racing toward them.) (Al-Ma'idah 5:54-55)

The answer to this is that these verses are not unconditional, to be applied to every Jew, Christian, or non-Muslim. Interpreting them in this manner contradicts the injunctions of the Qur'an which enjoin affection and kindness to the good and peace-loving peoples of every religion, as well as the verses which permit marriage to the women of the People of the Book, with all that Allah says concerning marriage, (And He has put love and mercy between you,] (Ar-Rum 30:21) and the verse concerning the Christians, [And thou wilt find those who say, 'Surely we are Christians.' to be nearest to them (the Muslims) in affection) (Al-Ma'idah 5:85).

The verses that imply breaking ties with People of Book refer to those people who were hostile to Islam and waged war against Muslims. Accordingly, it is not permissible for Muslims to support or assist them — that is, to be their ally — nor to entrust them with secrets at the expense of Islam or Muslim community.

This point is explained in other verses, in which Allah Almighty says the following:

(They will spare nothing to ruin you; they yearn for what makes you suffer. Hatred has been expressed by their mouths, but what their hearts conceal is still greater. Thus have We made clear to you the revelations (or signs), if you possess understanding. Ah! You love them, but they do not love you.) (Aal `Imran 3:118-119)

This verse sheds light on the character of such people, who conceal great enmity and hatred against the Muslims in their hearts and whose tongues express some of the effects of such hostility.

Almighty Allah also says the following:

(Thou wilt not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day loving those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, even though they may be their fathers or their sons or their brothers or their kin.) (Al-Mujadalah 58:22)

He Almighty also says the following:

(O you who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as friends, offering them affection, even though they have disbelieved in what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:1)

This verse was revealed in connection with the pagans of Makkah, who declared war against Allah and His Messenger driving the Muslims out of their homes simply because they said, "Our Lord is Allah."

With this type of people, friendship and alliance cannot be permitted. Yet in spite of this, the Qur'an did not dismiss the hope that one day there might be a reconciliation; it did not declare utter disappointment in them but encouraged the Muslims to kindle the hope of better understanding and improved relationships, for in the same surah Allah says, (It may be that Allah will bring about affection between you and those who are your enemies from among them. And Allah is All-Powerful, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.) (Al-Mumtahanah 60:7)

This Qur'anic statement gives the assurance that this bitter hostility and deep hatred is something that may pass way, as it is also stated in the hadith, "Hate your enemy mildly; he may become your friend one day" (Al-Tirmidhi).

The injunction against befriending enemies of Islam is even more emphatic when they have upper hand over Muslims, crushing hopes and generating fear in the minds of people. In such a situation, only hypocrites and those who are sick at hearts hasten to befriend them, giving them help today in order to benefit from them tomorrow. Almighty Allah describes this situation as follows:

(Yet thou seest those in whose hearts is a disease racing toward them (the enemies of Islam), saying, 'We are afraid that a change of fortune may befall us.' But it may be that Allah will give (thee) the victory or some decision from Himself, and then they will become regretful for what they thought secretly within themselves.) (Al-Ma'idah 5:52)

Allah also says the following:

(Give to the hypocrites the tidings that they will have a grievous punishment. Do those who take the unbelievers as friends instead of the Believers seek honor among them? For indeed all honor belongs to Allah alone.) (An-Nisa' 4:138-139)

In light of the above-mentioned facts, it's clear that there are certain rules and criteria that govern relationships between Muslims and non-Muslims, and this should be borne in mind when dealing with non-Muslims. Islam does not order Muslims to show hostility to the followers of other religions, merely for the reason that they happen to be non-Muslims. No, this is not the message of Islam.

Only those who harbor hatred and contempt against Muslims are the ones addressed by the verses warning Muslims from taking them as allies. Other than those, Muslims are ordered to deal with all human beings, without discrimination as to race, religion or sex, with love and kindness, for they are all members of the same family of mankind.

By Dr Yusuf Qaradawi- Islamonline

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
6) "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah." -- Mohamet (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 84, Number 59).
Sheikh `Abdel-Khaliq Hasan Ash-Shareef, a prominent Muslim scholar, states the following:

In fact, there has been much hue and cry against the hadith you quoted. The exact words of the hadith are “I have been ordered to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and until they perform the prayers and pay the Zakah. Their doing so will earn them protection for their lives and property, unless [they do acts that are punishable] in accordance with Islam, and their reckoning will be with Allah the Almighty.”

In explaining this hadith, I’d like to say that there is a big difference between the Arabic word ‘uqatel’ (to fight) and the word ‘aqtula’ (to kill). The first word (which is mentioned in the hadith) refers to fighting the powers that prevent people from realizing the greatness of Islam and seeing the divine light. Thus, the hadith goes in consistence with the Qur’anic verse that reads, (There is no compulsion in religion.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 256)

History bears witness to the fact that wherever Islam reached it survived, and that whenever Muslims entered any land, they used to live side by side with non-Muslim natives. We never heard about one of those non-Muslims being killed or punished due to his/her religion. On the contrary, those non-Muslims participated in the building of the Muslim State and stood side by side with Muslims in their process of developing the state.

The call of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was to liberate the oppressed peoples and oust all those deviant and despotic rulers who placed a barrier between their people and the light of Islam and prevented them from realizing its true nature and its illuminating teachings.

Again, we stress the fact that the exact words of the hadith are ‘uqatel i.e. fight’, not ‘aqtul (to kill’). It goes without saying that the history mentions many incidents in which non-Muslims took advantage and enjoyed the justice of Islam even when this policy stipulated things that were not in favor of Muslims.

The incident of the son of `Amr ibn Al-`Aas, governor of Egypt at the time of the Caliph `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, with a Coptic man is a well-known example. `Umar allowed the Copt to avenge himself on the governor’s son who hit him just for outpacing him in horse racing. This great justice is out of dispute.

In conclusion, it is clear that what is meant in the hadith is fighting those who place people’s minds in the chains of ignorance and prevent them from grasping the light.

Islamonline

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
7) "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in his cause, and slay and are slain." (Koran 9:111)
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme. Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the cause of Allah,: that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limit set by Allah;- (These do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers. (YUSUF ALI Translation, Quran 9:111-112)

As we read in Quran limits set by Allah are: “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.” (Yusuf Ali Translation, Quran 2:190).

Thus in the light of 2:190 it can be easily understood that the verse teaches self-defense in a form of a physical jihad (striving in the path of Allah). Let us also remember the rest of context of Chapter 9.

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
8) "Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." - Qur'an 8:40
Its verse 39 not 40. "And fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone. And if they desist-behold, God sees all that they do." (8:39).

Again quoted completely out of context. How can one take these verses without even knowing the historical context behind them?

The people of Mecca persecuted and oppressed Muslims for thirteen years. After the migration of Muslims to Medina in the second year of hijra (migration) the Muslims were not even allowed to enter Makka to do pilgrimage to the Ka'ba.

The Battle of Badr took place between the Muslims and the Makkans. The Muslims won the battle and were directed in this verse to continue fighting them until all persecution was over and they were allowed freedom of religion to worship God alone.

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
9) Volume 4, Book 52, Number 269: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "War is deceit."
This hadith was said in the context of the just war Muslims fought. It refers to battlefield tactics, such as hiding troop positions and general War strategy which is extremely important when conducting any war.

Salaahudeen was know for his brilliant war tactics and that is what made him such a successful leader for he outwitted his opponents on numerous occassions. On one occassion him and his army were going to go to battle with an army of crusaders and instead of going to them he waited until they came to him across hot arid plains where water was no where to be seen. He knew they would die of thirst and by the time the crusader army got to where they Salah udeen's army were many of them died of thirst and others were to weak to fight. There are many tactics used to outwit ones opponent and that is what is referred to in this hadith.

This is Just another example of purposely quoting out of context.


format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
10) “Allah’s Apostle (Mohamet) said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror’”(Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).
Again its funny how the hadith ends there. Why do they not quote the whole hadith?

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

By using the word 'Terror' for ru'b, the Islam-hater intends to convey the following definition of terror: Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes. (The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)

However, the word ru'b does not have that meaning at all. It refers to fright and anxiety. In fact, we can derive a better understanding of ru'b by examing other ahadith:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "I was given victory through Ru`b: the enemy becomes filled with Ru`b even though they are the distance of a month's journey away from me." (Ahmad #20337)

The meaning is thus obvious that when the enemies' attempts to destroy the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) failed, they began to fear him as he grew in strength in Arabia and gained more followers. They feared and hated the religion he brought which preached equality and morality and would remove them from their position of corrupt tyrants who enslaved the poor and the non-arabs. It was fear of the mysterious power which granted Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his followers such rapid success. This fear was not the fear that resulted from past combat, as many Islam-haters would have us believe, rather it was a type of fear which prevented further combat.

As Jalal Abualrub notes:

Ru`b ', means, 'Fear': Here is a list of some of the Islamic resources explaining, 'Ru`b', as, 'Fear', and, 'Awe': Fat`h al-Bari bi Shar`h Sahih al-Bukhari ; Tu`hfat al-A`hwadhi bi Shar'h Jami' at-Tirmidhi ; and, Shar`h Sunan an-Nasaii .

These books were written by Muslim Scholars explaining Hadeeths contained in, Sahih al-Bukhari , and the Sunan collections of Imams at-Tirmidhi and an-Nasaii, respectively.... ...Al-Waqidi said in his, Maghazi , that Juwairiyah Bint al- Harith said, " We were at the Muraisii` area when the Messenger of Allah marched forth towards us. I heard my father say, 'There has come to us a gathering that we cannot resist.' I saw men and horses in such numbers that I cannot describe. After I became Muslim and the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, married me I looked at the Muslims and found their numbers to be less than what I had thought. I knew that this was Ru`b that Allah, the Exalted, throws in the hearts of the polytheists.' "

There are many similar examples in which the enemies of Islam, who, just like the Muraisii` people, had gathered armies to attack Madinah and the Prophet, scattered throughout the desert in fear when they heard that the Prophet had gathered an army to resist their treacherous attacks. Many lives were
saved through Allah throwing fear in the hearts of the enemies of Muhammad, peace be upon them, because his enemies feared him, fled and did not meet him in battle.

Thus, 'fear', in the Hadeeth...saved Muslims and many of their enemies the hardship of battle and warfare. (Abualrub, The Prophet of Mercy, emphasis added) hence, the fear that the disbelievers had of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) can justly be compared to the fear a thief or murderer would have of a police officer. In fact, a Police officer would desire that criminals fear the law in order to maintain a safe and secure society.

Some crtitics also claim that this narration proves that the motivation of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was money due to the phrase, "the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and placed in my hand". Of course they omit the phrase before that - "While I was asleep". Jalal

Abualrub comments on this deceptive tactic as follows:

By doing so, it would appear that the Prophet, peace be upon him, was seeking or wishing to acquire other people's wealth for himself. Contrary to this false illusion, this was a vision that the Prophet saw which contained glad tidings for the generations of Muslims to come. This is why in the same Hadeeth, Abu Hurairah added, as al-Bukhari and Muslim reported from him: " Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them). (Abualrub, The Prophet of Mercy)

There are thousands of narrations which confirm that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) lived a simple life in poverty despite the power and strength he acquired as a leader. Here are a few of such narrations:

Narrated 'Aisha: The family of Muhammad had never eaten their fill of wheat bread for three successive days since they had migrated to Medina till the death of the Prophet. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 461)

Narrated 'Aisha: The family of Muhammad did not eat two meals on one day, but one of the two was of dates. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 462)

Narrated 'Aisha: The bed mattress of the Prophet was made of a leather case stuffed with palm fibres.(Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 463)

Narrated Qatada: We used to go to Anas bin Malik and see his baker
standing (preparing the bread). Anas said, "Eat. I have not known that the Prophet ever saw a thin well-baked loaf of bread till he died, and he never saw a roasted sheep with his eyes."

(Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 464) Narrated 'Aisha: A complete month would pass by during which we would not make a fire (for cooking), and our food used to be only dates and water unless we were given a present of some meat. (Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 465)

In truth, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) never desired anything of the worldly pleasures. His mission was solely to please his Lord and spread the true message across the land, calling people to morality, justice and peace achieved through submission to God.

format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
11) "When judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire." -- Mohammed (Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no. 5552.)
I have never heard or read anything about this. So I will not comment on it.

You should paste the following from IslamQA to educate others that Islam is not what they are misled to believe it is:

Do Muslims Kill Their Opponents?

Islam maintains the protection of life and does not sanction any violation against it, irrespective of the people’s religion, race, sect, etc.. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am: 151) (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Isra’: 33)

According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah: 32) Muslims do not hate – let alone kill - non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religion does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah.

When we Muslims state that Islam is a religion of peace, we are not trying to prove something unreasonable or solve a crossword puzzle. Rather, we are just stating a fact backed by clear-cut evidence and unquestionable proofs. Even we don’t need to state this fact, for Islam, in itself, is self-explanatory, in terms of its meaning, its noble teachings and the core of its message conveyed by the Prophets Allah sent to mankind.

With that statement, we don’t intend to sound apologetic, for Islamic concept of peace is very clear. It does not mean weakness, slavishness or surrendering to aggression and injustice. The Islamic concept of peace aims at securing security and harmony for the whole world, without any discrimination as to religion, race or color. Thus, Islam, right from its inception, waged a total war against injustice and oppression. It has made it clear that people should not be deprived of having access to the light of guidance. But throughout its history you can never find any trace of infringing upon people’s right to self expression, even at times that such right was misused. The cogent example to be mentioned here is the way the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, received the two envoys sent by Musailamah Al-Kazzab (the Liar). His fine remarks always ring in mind whenever the issue of diplomatic immunity comes to fore. He, peace and blessings be upon him, told the envoys when they addressed him in a very provocative way: “If not that the envoys should not be killed, I’d have ordered for you to be beheaded”, thus laying down the rule that was later codified as one of the principles of the modern international law.

The point here is, it’s not of the Islamic teachings to kill people just because they happen to be non-Muslims or happen to disagree with Muslims on some points. What attests to this is the fact that the first war in the Islamic history would have never occurred if not that the enemies of Islam could not be satisfied with expelling Muslims from their home (Makkah), rather they planned to carry the aggression to Madinah in order to exterminate Muslims once and for all. So the question that should have been asked is: why do opponents are always on the trail of Muslims?

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and an Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

Islam is indeed a religion of love and peace. Islam does not teach people to kill all those who disagree with them simply because they disagree with them. If certain bigoted Muslims did so that is not the fault of Islam. How unjust would it be to say that Christianity is a religion that teaches violence and blood shed by looking at the historical performance of some so-called Christians: After all, Hitler who committed genocide against the Jews, the white supremacists in South America who practiced barbarities against the blacks, the Serbs who committed genocide against the Muslims in Bosnia, those who systematically practiced mass slaughter of Muslims and Jews in Spain, and burned heretics, etc. all claimed to be Christians. What about the Christians still killing each other in Ireland? So why use double standards in judging Islam? Stereotyping is wrong regardless of against whom we use it.

Vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with such violence or bloodshed that may or may not have been committed by those who claim to be Muslims. According to the strict verdict of the Qur’an, taking life of a single human being unjustly is akin to taking the life of all humanity. A good Muslim, therefore, is one who believes in sanctity of all life. The Prophet, peace be upon him, taught us that if a person were to kill even a single little sparrow, it would appear before the Lord of the worlds seeking God’s justice against the person!”

Having patience does not mean tolerating injustice

Sheikh Muhammad Al-Mukhtar Al-Shinqiti, Director of the Islamic Center of South Plains, Lubbock, Texas, states:

"Allah says: “And those who, when an oppressive wrong is inflicted on them, (are not cowed but) help and defend themselves. The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree): but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah: for (Allah) loveth not those who do wrong. But indeed if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong (done) to them, against such there is no cause of blame. The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous. But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs” (Ash-Shura: 39-43).

Reading these verses and contemplating their meanings, a Muslim can understand that patience does not mean to tolerate injustice or unfairness. It is part of the rights of the Muslim to defend his or her rights after being oppressed, but to forgive is a better choice, as Allah says, “But indeed if any show patience and forgive, that would truly be an exercise of courageous will and resolution in the conduct of affairs” (Ash-Shura: 43).

This leads us to distinguish between the rights of the individual and the rights of the Ummah in the light of Islam. As for the right of the individual, it is often better for the individual to forgive and forget about the wrong inflicted on him personally. On the other hand, as for the right of the Ummah, it is the obligation of the leaders of the Muslim Ummah to defend justice and to confront oppression."
Reply

OurIslamic
01-09-2010, 07:49 AM
One of these people asked me a question. I've posted it on my site and gave her the link to check later today.

Please answer her (I have to go to sleep, it's 2:48 AM!).

Here's the link.
http://ourislamic.com/forums/29-deba...rses.html#1540

You can register here:
http://www.ourislamic.com/component/user/register.html

No email verification is required. You can create an account in less than a minute.
Reply

aamirsaab
01-09-2010, 10:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
One of these people asked me a question. I've posted it on my site and gave her the link to check later today.

Please answer her (I have to go to sleep, it's 2:48 AM!).

Here's the link.
http://ourislamic.com/forums/29-deba...rses.html#1540

You can register here:
http://www.ourislamic.com/component/user/register.html

No email verification is required. You can create an account in less than a minute.
She mentioned 5 people (again, use a percentages argument...unless those 5 were the only intelligent muslims to exist!) - none of them scholars or sheiks; just average muslims (some of which happened to have qualifications). It's a pretty lame argument tbh.

As for why they didn't follow the peaceful teachings --- how are you supposed to know that?! Unless you knew those people as individuals (i.e siblings or friends) there's no way you could know that. Heck, maybe they did follow the peaceful teachings and one day they just snapped?

Also, none of them were reported quoting any of the ''violent'' verses before or during their acts of violence. In fact, very little justification was given by them and any terrorist!

This is why I stopped debating with haters and critics; they don't know what they are talking about. That's not an adhom - it's a statement of fact.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Okay, for argument's sake, I'll paraphrase the passage and swap the word 'Pagan' (which, referring mainly to historical contexts has a tendancy to obscure the issue) with 'Hindu', for they are both terms referring to idol worshippers right?



For me, this passage reminds me of American foreign policy. If one so-called 'Muslim' blows up the twin towers, America says: "fight and slay the Muslims wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular oil pipelines and practise saying "God Bless America", then open the way for them: for America is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful".
The analogy doesn't work. You missed out a key point (actually there are a lot but I'll deal with most important one): The sacred months, which was a period of down-time after the treaty (with whom the pagans broke!) was broken. Only after that down-time were muslims allowed to fight back. That's what this whole verse is about.
Reply

zakirs
01-09-2010, 11:07 AM
Well in my last post's comments Rohitj asked to clarify to what extent Politicalislam.com's claims are correct.Well to disprove him i'll use an opensource Quran study software for Linux called Zekr. It is a brilliant software by which you can study Quran in whatevr language you want :).

Now lets start by his first claim.



As an example, there is never any reference to humanity as a unified whole. Instead there is a division into believer and kafir (unbeliever).
Right..Here is my answer , a quote from quran searched using the Zekr software :).


(Quran 49:13) O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

Now this verse Doesn't speak about believer and unbelievers I guess?.His Second claim is

Humanity is not seen as one body, but is divided into whether the person believes Mohammed is the prophet of Allah or not.
Well , Its so obvious dude.. World is divided into people who are men and who aren't (women).But anyway to disprove you again I quote this verse..

(Quran 114:3)Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind

The King of mankind,
The god of mankind,
From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,
Who whispereth in the hearts of mankind,
Of the jinn and of mankind.
Here it does not say God of believers , king of believers etc .

I would like to go on further but i would be wasting my time.But instead ill explain what tactic he used.Let me Quote a verse out of context from Quran.

(Quran 2:190)And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.


Like if i Quoted this verse alone you would say that Quran is speaking of violence and is discriminatory right ?Now let me quote the full verse in context, i.e quoting a few verses before and after it,


Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
Here the verse doesn't refer to disbelievers perse , It refers to the ones who persecuted Prophet mohammed (peace be upon him). It asks to fight against those who persecute and attack you.It doesn't say to go out in the maket and kill anybody you can find.Like what would you do if a few hooligans come and beatup all your family and throw you out of your house ? would say " I am a peaceful person , i will not harm thou" .Obiviously no .. you would defend youselves by attacking them.SIMPLE. It even says Allah doesn't like aggressors , What more proof do you want ?

Please dont quote verses out of context.And please dont believe what every drunken idiot like this political islam guy says.
from my blog
http://luvlinux.blogspot.com/2009/10...ims-using.html
Reply

Danah
01-09-2010, 11:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Typically if a Muslim finds themselves winning a debate or if the refutations are being read, the Muslim will soon find their account blocked and their posts edited to support the hate site.

I have personally had that happen to me on at least 2 hate forums.
I have never think that hate can reach such level!!
the most thing I can think of is to block the account and then delete their posts........but to edit them? that is a.............what I can say? :raging:

well, that is because they wanna hide the truth and they knew that its the truth otherwise they won't hide it!
Reply

OurIslamic
01-09-2010, 02:18 PM
Jazakallah for providing insight Aamirsaab (I'll make another account and post it).
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
01-09-2010, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by OurIslamic
Jazakallah for providing insight Aamirsaab (I'll make another account and post it).
:sl:

Brother refute their claims once or twice and then leave it, don't continue to debate wich such people. We cannot guide anyone we can only inform them as best we can. Ask of Allah to guide them to. Save your imaan don't go onto these sites. Increase your knowledge about Islam first and you should only refute them no more than 2 or 3 times then leave it there. Thee is no wisdom in continuously trying to refute them. It is not good for your imaan either.

and Allah knows best

:wa:
Reply

Woodrow
01-09-2010, 10:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hamza81
:sl:

Brother refute their claims once or twice and then leave it, don't continue to debate wich such people. We cannot guide anyone we can only inform them as best we can. Ask of Allah to guide them to. Save your imaan don't go onto these sites. Increase your knowledge about Islam first and you should only refute them no more than 2 or 3 times then leave it there. Thee is no wisdom in continuously trying to refute them. It is not good for your imaan either.

and Allah knows best

:wa:
Very wise advice. Reps are on their way.
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MSalman
01-10-2010, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Define "enemy". Because your definition seems to be anyone sharing a certain characteristic (takfir).
1 - enemies are those who are hostile toward you by any means possible
2 - do yo know the meaning of word takfir?

format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I know, but that less 1 per cent causes a lot of bloodshed due to its misinterpretation. Do you think God knew that this would happen, and if so, could he not have addressed the context in the verse itself?
that is simply your understanding and perception. What proof do you have that your clarity will give us 100% guarantee that it would be safe from humans' misunderstanding and misinterpretation? Like I said before, the hearts without disease can understand the verse clearly and you are not god to tell us what should have been said. The typical atheist rambling: "could God not have done this way? Why did He do this way?" is not an objective or rational discussion. Because 1) you have no evidence to prove that people would submit to what you suggest and accept it without any misunderstanding 2) you have no evidence to prove that your suggestion would lead you to truth or have helped you to embrace truth and 3) which suggestion do you think we should go by when humans by nature do not agree with everything there is, nor they agree on everything among themselves; there will always be complains and this is something no one can rationally deny. In conclusion, the Creator knows best about His creation than you eliphaz. So, while living in this world, you will have to go by His rules and laws. The fact of matter is that the time is passing and regardless of what you say the laws of Allah are not going to change. So wouldn't it be better if you submit to those laws instead of complaining about them? Secondly, if you don't like to live under His laws then go make your own world and see where that gets you.

format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
In my opinion this is what the verse is saying and this would have been a much clearer way of putting it.
again, that is simply your 'arrogant' understanding and in no way serve as a rational/logical argument.
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