Nationalism

[syilla]

:salamext:

i found another interesting hadith... :statisfie

taken from this blog
http://muhammadfariz82.blogspot.com/...tionalism.html

Rasul Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “He is not one of us who calls for asabiyyah, (tribalism/nationalism) or who fights for asabiyyah, or who dies for asabiyyah.” [Abu Dawud]

On one occasion during the time of the Prophet (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam), a party of Jews conspired to bring about disunity in the ranks of the Muslims after seeing the Aus and Khazraj harmonious with each other within Islam. A youth from among them was sent to incite remembrance of the battle of Bu'ath, where the Aus had been victorious over the Khazraj. He recited poetry to stir their feelings, remind them of their past differences, and bring about division between them. As a result there was a call to arms. When the news reached the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) he said, "O Muslims, remember Allah, remember Allah. Will you act as pagans while I am present among you, after Allah has guided you to Islam, and honoured you thereby and made a clean break with paganism; delivered you thereby from disbelief; and made you friends thereby?" When they heard this they wept and embraced each other. [The Roots of Nationalism In The Muslim World]

Islam is a religion that abhors racism, ethnicism, tribalism, and its newer version, nationalism. Differences of language, colour, cuisine and accent were meant to add flavour to life, not to be used to ridicule or fight each other. The past couple of centuries have seen wars between different ethnic groups on a scale unprecedented before. The rise of nationalism has resulted in bitter conflict between groups that had lived for centuries in harmony. It has set the world on fire and resulted in pandaemonium.

While Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has prohibited nationalism, Muslims are killing one another and aiding non-Muslims to kill their brothers and sisters in Islam, in the name of saving their own "country". This is despite the fact that such "countries" have no legitimacy in Allah's eyes for the reasons that 1) in none of these is Allah's law held wholly superior to man made law, and 2) there is only one country to which all Muslims belong, i.e. Dar-ul-Islam. Muslims, for thirteen centuries were one bloc, under one leadership, in the name of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala). When you cut an elephant into 100 pieces you don't get one hundred elephants, instead you get a bloody mess. Incited against each other using nationalism, this is what the Muslim Ummah has become.

[PersiaBeFree]

Islam is like a country?

[CosmicPathos]

Islam is like a country?

Persians are like Aryans? :raging:

[PersiaBeFree]

Islam is like a country?

Persians are like Aryans? :raging:

Wa7, me I am referring to this, quoted from above: "there is only one country to which all Muslims belong, i.e. Dar-ul-Islam".

To clarify my point, it strikes me as curious that one would rage against nationalism and then in the same breath liken Islam to a country.

What are you referring to?

And what is that little angry red face with the stabbing knife? Are you angry?

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[CosmicPathos]

Yes I am angry. Islam is not a country. Islam is a religion, a way of life, a set of political, social, and economical ideas. Hence, in Islam, there is only one body in terms of geography i.e. Dar ul Islam. Within this dar ul islam, you can have different provinces based on local ethnicities but there is no concept of "independent" country. Each province can have governors but the whole lands are united under the leadership of one Leader (khalifa) who can be black, white, red, brown, yellow, depending on his taqwa, insight, knowledge, skills and leadership.

[PersiaBeFree]

Yes I am angry. Islam is not a country. Islam is a religion, a way of life, a set of political, social, and economical ideas. Hence, in Islam, there is only one body in terms of geography i.e. Dar ul Islam.

A geographical body based on political and social ideas.... What is that if not a country (just as Syilla said, "country")?

And as you know, there exist (multiethnic) geographical bodies outside Islam.

What is the difference between nationalism, on the one hand, and making the distinction between Dar ul Islam and Dar ul ... (you fill it in) on the other? Aren't you being nationalistic, in a way?

Can't Islam instead be viewed as a personal profession, independent of society, as such? Isn't the relationship between oneself and Allah all that is needed, without necessarily being part of, for example, a group that cheers and condems in unison?

Do you see what I'm saying? Or asking?

[CosmicPathos]

A geographical body based on political and social ideas.... What is that if not a country (just as Syilla said, "country")?

And as you know, there exist (multiethnic) geographical bodies outside Islam.

What is the difference between nationalism, on the one hand, and making the distinction between Dar ul Islam and Dar ul ... (you fill it in) on the other? Aren't you being nationalistic, in a way?

Can't Islam instead be viewed as a personal profession, independent of society, as such? Isn't the relationship between oneself and Allah all that is needed, without necessarily being part of, for example, a group that cheers and condems in unison?

Do you see what I'm saying? Or asking?

No I am not being nationalistic. Nationlistic means one who supports nationalism. Islam is not a nation. Muslims are not a nation. Dictionary defines it as: a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory : leading industrialized nations.

Islam is a religion, not of any things mentioned above. Within Islamic "nation" you can have thousands of languages and cultures but it will still be one "nation." So when I cheer for Dar ul Islam, I am not being nationlistic. I am rather being religious.

But if you really insist on calling Dar ul Islam a nation then sure, Muslims are nationalistic for their Muslim identity. Its not something new to support Islamic religion for Muslims. Sure, you can then call us nationalistic and we accept that. We just are not being nationalistic based on one's culture, language or heck ideology, just like Persian nationalism (based on Aryan ethnicity) or Pakistani nationalism (Based on ideology of a Pure state) or Turkish nationalism (based on race and ethnicity).

[PersiaBeFree]

... Within Islamic "nation" you can have thousands of languages and cultures but it will still be one "nation."

This is true of western nations too (especially the United States).

But I agree with you completely that Islam should not be viewed as a nation or country, and that people who do so are wrong. I think people are also wrong to view it as fundamentally a society or in-group.

That was my point.

So when I cheer for Dar ul Islam, I am not being nationlistic. I am rather being religious.

You are cheering for an in-group and therefore placing yourself in an antagonistic position with regard to out-groups. This is my objection. One can cheer for one's religion silently, and alone, and one will still get to heaven.

Or do you know something about Islam that I don't? It lets us be alone, doesn't it?

But if you really insist on calling Dar ul Islam a nation

Just the opposite. There exist muslims who just want to be left alone.

then sure, Muslims are nationalistic for their Muslim identity. Its not something new to support Islamic religion for Muslims.

Of course not. That is in fact the history of the spread of Islam by military conquest. I don't think Islam should have spread that way. It should have spread with words alone. That is what the Quran is for.

Sure, you can then call us nationalistic and we accept that. We just are not being nationalistic based on one's culture, language or heck ideology,

Religion is an ideology, even if it's divinely inspired. I hope you are including me in that "us" of yours. What I'm objecting to comes down framing things in terms of us vs them. This is the basis of war.

just like Persian nationalism (based on Aryan ethnicity) or Pakistani nationalism (Based on ideology of a Pure state) or Turkish nationalism (based on race and ethnicity).

There are nationalisms that are less primitive than those examples, but we are talking here about religion, which is a very private thing. It is as far as one can get from nationalism.