France and the Veil

[Uthman]

Women who wear the burka in public will be fined £700 under laws being considered in France.

MPs will vote on the proposal this month after a long impassioned debate over the merits of outlawing the burka and niqab.

Jean-François Copé, parliamentary leader of President Nicolas Sarkozy's UMP group, said the 750 euro fine would apply to anyone whose face is "fully covered in public".

Wearing either would be tolerated only in exceptional circumstances, such as "cultural events or carnivals," he added.

The bill proposes introducing an even heavier penalty for anyone who forces a woman to wear the full veil, Mr Copé said in an interview with the Le Figaro magazine.

The burka is a full-body covering with a mesh screen over the eyes while the niqab is a full-body veil with eye slits.

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations and does not restrict religious practices.

"We spoke to religious and secular figures who all confirmed [the burka] was not a religious prescription. Wearing the full body veil is about extremists who want to test the republic," he said.

President Sarkozy last year declared the burka a "sign of subservience and debasement that imprison women" and said it was "not welcome on French soil".

But he is said to be undecided as to whether to back the law or a non-binding "resolution" that would make wearing the garments contrary to French values but not a punishable offence.

Mr Copé has left both options on the table by drawing up a resolution regarding women's rights and a law on security in tandem.

The burka discussion has intensified amid a heated debate on French identity organised by Mr Sarkozy's immigration minister, Eric Besson. The debate has focused heavily on immigration and Islam in a country with five million Muslims.

Fadela Amara, the urban affairs minister, a women's rights activist and a Muslim, recently labelled the burka a "walking coffin".

Michelle Alliot-Marie, the justice minister, said last week that Muslim men seeking French citizenship and whose wives wore the garment were not welcome. She said they would "not appear to be sharing the values of our country." The opposition Socialists this week came out against a law banning the burka – even though they remain firmly opposed to the garment.

"The burka is a prison for women and has no place in the French Republic. But an ad hoc law would not have the anticipated effect," said their spokesman, Benoît Hamon.

Jean-Marie Le Pen, the veteran leader of the far-Right National Front, said a ban was unnecessary as it is already "forbidden to walk the streets and public spaces with a mask on".

Interior ministry figures suggest that around 2,000 women in France wear full Muslim dress in public.

France passed a law in 2004 banning students and staff from wearing "conspicuous" religious symbols in schools – including veils – to defend secularism.

In September a French mother was banned from wearing a full-body "burkini" bathing suit at her local swimming pool. She was told it contravened hygiene regulations but pledged to take her local council to court, saying the decision was political.

In July, al-Qaeda leaders in north African issued a call to arms against France on an Islamic extremist website.

"We will seek dreadful revenge on France by all means at our disposal, for the honour of our daughters and sisters," they warned.

Source

[Uthman]

French MP seeks early ban on Muslim veil in public

[crayon]

the 750 euro fine would apply to anyone whose face is "fully covered in public".


Most women who wear the niqab don't cover their eyes anyway, therefore technically, their face is only partially covered- so, this law shouldn't apply to them. Right?

[AlHoda]

:sl:
Wearing either would be tolerated only in exceptional circumstances, such as "cultural events or carnivals," he added.
That is just ridicilous, why can you wear your niqab or boerka at cultural events or carnivals but not in public. What difference does it make. :confused:

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations and does not restrict religious practices
What does this have to do with public safety, these women aren't harming anyone. And westeners always complain about not having enough freedom, so why can you not have freedom to practice your religion, wearing the niqab or boerka is incuded in practise of religion. What a bunch of hypocrites those frenc government people are.

France passed a law in 2004 banning students and staff from wearing "conspicuous" religious symbols in schools – including veils – to defend secularism. These people are really boiling my blood, I don't want even start about that 'dicriminating' law. What is so wrong with expression of religion, don't they know that this will lead only to more problems. :skeleton:

Western leaders claim to seek freedom and equality, but the only thing they are seeking for is trouble and loads of it.

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[AlHoda]

the 750 euro fine would apply to anyone whose face is "fully covered in public".


Most women who wear the niqab don't cover their eyes anyway, therefore technically, their face is only partially covered- so, this law shouldn't apply to them. Right?

:sl:
Next thing you know, they will ban the hijab. And indeed, if you wear the niqaab, you cover your face only partially, but they always come up with some excuse.:raging:

May Allah protect all muslim women in France.
:wa:

[The_Prince]

we should start fining western women who arent properly covered up in the Muslim world. if their in skirts, shorts, arms out, fine them.

[Vito]

public safety and Sexual equality considerations??? wtf

[sister herb]

we should start fining western women who arent properly covered up in the Muslim world. if their in skirts, shorts, arms out, fine them.

Oh no; then they would say how intolerant islam is. But they in France just try to "liberate" muslim sisters and "defend" they rights.


Sorry I feel +o( after reading those news.

[AlHoda]

we should start fining western women who arent properly covered up in the Muslim world. if their in skirts, shorts, arms out, fine them.

:sl: Nicely put, we should!:exhausted
:wa:

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Wearing the full body veil is about extremists who want to test the republic," he said.

LOL! You have GOT to be kidding me...

[aadil77]

I didn't know the burkha and niqaab were different, but I remember I've only ever seen one sis wearing the mesh thing at the front, and that was scary

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Burqa has a screen over the eyes and the niqaab is open from the eyes, thats the only difference.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i felt my insides shiver n i feel like puking as i read this...

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Yes I could feel my BP rise as I was reading that.

President Sarkozy last year declared the burka a "sign of subservience and debasement that imprison women"

What they don't realise that in Islam, all are subserviant to Allah, not to any human, whereas their women are subservient to men, dress to impess the opposite sex. We dress to impress our Lord. It will be known on the Day of Judgement as to who is truly debased.

:sl:

Oh, and P.S. This is just the beginning. Headscarf will probably be next.

[sister herb]

If they will criminalize hijabs, then they maybe ban same also from nuns?

:shade:

Even they should to be equal.

[Amadeus85]

What else we can expect from a country ran by the Grand Orient.

[syilla]

What about wearing masks??? :hmm: it seems so unfair.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Edit
.............................

[Ramadhan]

I hope our muslims brothers and sisters in France take this all the way to European human rights court.

[CosmicPathos]

Lash and flog all the Western women who show their bodies in Islamic countries. But I doubt the leaders of these Islamic countries are as pious as the Salaf.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I believe this will be followed by banning of Hijab in rest of the Europe aswell.

[Snowflake]

Perhaps when muslim countries start giving non-muslim's right in their countries, they will get the same in return, or even appear reasonable asking for them?

[CosmicPathos]

Perhaps when muslim countries start giving non-muslim's right in their countries, they will get the same in return, or even appear reasonable asking for them?

What an apologetic tone? Non-Muslim countries are supposed to give equal rights to all of its citizens. These Muslims are its citizens. France follows a secular law and by virtue of that no citizen has to be discriminated.

In Muslim countries, a discrimination must be maintained between Muslims and dhimmis. Not a moral one but a physical one. A dhimmi or a kaafir cannot be a general in Muslim army in a Muslim country for example. You want to revoke laws such as these which you of course find discriminatory?

[Skavau]

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations and does not restrict religious practices.

"We spoke to religious and secular figures who all confirmed [the burka] was not a religious prescription. Wearing the full body veil is about extremists who want to test the republic," he said.

I don't care, and neither should anyone else for that matter what French secular and religius figures consider the burkha to be. (Not that something being religious ought to exclude it from public law). The government, or figures within should not decide what something is and whether it should be used.

Also what is he talking about "testing the republic?" this sounds like shades of some totalitarian dystopia. How does one 'test the republic'? By showing how free they ought to be in choice of clothing? Why does also he think trying to fine them for it will actually convince them of their errors and not enflame them?

Disgraceful.

France passed a law in 2004 banning students and staff from wearing "conspicuous" religious symbols in schools – including veils – to defend secularism.

As a Secularist, this is embarassing.

For shame

[Snowflake]

What an apologetic tone? Non-Muslim countries are supposed to give equal rights to all of its citizens. These Muslims are its citizens. France follows a secular law and by virtue of that no citizen has to be discriminated. In Muslim countries, a discrimination must be maintained between Muslims and dhimmis. Not a moral one but a physical one. A dhimmi or a kaafir cannot be a general in Muslim army in a Muslim country for example. You want to revoke laws such as these which you of course find discriminatory?

:sl:

Is their law set in stone? We cannot force them to abide by their own laws. And they aren't. Perhaps you think we should just protest and make a big hoo-haa about it. Perhaps you're even right. But shouldn't we as muslims take a long hard look at ourselves and be the kind of people who seem justified in asking for those rights? And probably even attaining them because we are considered worthy of them? So far we, the Ummah as a whole have done nothing to strengthen ties with non muslims of the lands we reside in. We have taken and given nothing back.


Is there any service set up by muslim that benefits muslims and the natives in non muslim lands. Please excuse my ignorance if there is, but in the decades of living in a non muslim land I've not heard of one. In the recent years when UK suffered severed flooding, what did muslims in UK to do help? Nothing because the areas flooded were predominantly non muslim. There have been and are many problems which muslims and non muslim face socially as a society, yet there is never a service/solution initiated by muslims living here. I’d rather not get into the damage caused by muslims living in non muslim lands.


Allah did not prohibit us from being kind to non muslims who are neither fighting us or driving us from our homes. Nor are we prohibited from spending a part of our wealth on them. Yet have we? Society has many needs. But muslims have segregated themselves and done the opposite to what Islam required of us. We mustn’t forget that all non muslim are potential muslims, and it is by strengthening social ties as part of a community that we can give non muslims a real insight into what Islam is all about. Our purpose is to invite people to Islam, not push them away. But if we only take, take and take from anyone and we will never prosper.



I didn’t in any way suggest non muslims be granted permission to participate in Islamic affairs. What I was saying is that non muslims don't even have basic rights in Pakistan muslim ruled country. Did Islam prohibited non muslims from practicing their religion inside their own home in muslim lands? In theory they are allowed, yet some Christians in Arab have even been jailed for doing just that.


But back to Pakistan. The only jobs most Christians can get are working as maids/servants in muslim households. The worst of which I have witnessed with my own eyes, was the Christian woman who used to go door to door in a muslim area with an industrial sized empty old (ghee) container tied on her back so that she could scoop **** from the old-fashioned toilets which did not flush and remove it from the houses. I don't recall Islam encouraging muslims to treat non muslim in their lands like this.

If we are suffering as an Ummah it is because of our own failings. We should not expect any good unless we strive to do good; not only for muslims but for the people whose lands we live in.


The prophet (saw) supported the pagan Makkan Hilf ul Fudul because it was created to establish fairness and justice in commercial dealings. His support for it was such that he would mention the event to the companions in the future.


We can shout all we want about ‘our rights’. But let’s not forget Islam the very religion we follow has given rights to all human beings regardless of their beliefs. We have to give and take. That is what the meaning behind my previous post was.


Allah gives us what we earn.

“For Allah will never change the grace which He has bestowed on a people until they change what is in themselves: and verily Allah is He Who hears and knows (all things).” [Sûrah al-Anfâl: 53]


Let’s not only look at the injustices done to muslims, but also at what muslims are doing by their own hands. So I do feel apologetic for muslims not being the nation Allah and His Messenger (Pbuh) commanded us to be and thus depriving them from seeing true beauty of Islam.


:wa:

[Pygoscelis]

What about wearing masks??? :hmm: it seems so unfair.

That's exactly how it should be looked at becasue thats exactly what it is. Anywhere you can wear a mask you should be allowed to wear one of these. That said, there ARE public safety reasons why people are not allowed to wear masks everywhere and they should apply to this too.

[Predator]

Double standards, they dont mind the Nuns wearing their Burkhas but have a problem with Muslims wearing them

[aamirsaab]

Seven hundred pound fine for wearing a piece of cloth over your face.

I'm sure there's a joke to be made here but for the life of me I can't get one out.

[KittenLover]

hmmm they go on about freedom of speech, what about freedom of clothing? I think freedom of clothing and being able to wear what you want is just as important as freedom as speech. hypo's.

[cat eyes]

:sl: i just want to say that there's other modest clothing out there other then burkas :hmm: and they said nothing about the hijab so far. its seems that i am hearing different fatwas all the time what is expected of a muslimah for example that its not compulsory to cover the face and that you can expose your face and your hands.

[cat eyes]

so many muslims have said muslims who wear the niqaab are extreme muslims and i hate hearing this i dont want to be labelled an extreme muslim i dont want people to be afraid of me. when a person is not being called extreme then they say that your trying to dress like an arab by wearing black. i am hearing this crap from the mouths of muslims and not from non muslims. they verbally attacked my friend once for wearing the niqaab and the gloves also.

[Supreme]

Even though I think the Burka is utterly ridiculous, I see this new proposal as equally ridiculous. It's an irrational response to a rational concern, and even though France clearly isn't very happy about giving equal rights to Muslims- they've made this perfectly clear in the past- I do think this is an extreme measure. Muslims are 8% of France, surely the French government must acknowledge some Muslims may try and fight this?

[Misz_Muslimah]

I think that's totally out of order :hmm:

[sister herb]

Double standards, they dont mind the Nuns wearing their Burkhas but have a problem with Muslims wearing them

Frenchs understand nuns wear they hijab as for they Lord but they can´t understand muslim sisters do it by same reason.

I use just hijab but if I ever travel to France after kind of law I will wear niqab as protest they law against my rights to follow my religion.

:raging:

[Muezzin]

750 euros?!

Behind a woman's veil is not her height in cash, you crazy French politicians, you.

Unless they think burkha-clad women resemble ninjas, and want to give the term 'stealth tax' a puntastic new meaning.

[sister herb]

If French politicians thinks to "liberate" muslim sisters by this they are wrong. Those whose can´t pay it will stay at home - what is opposite of idelialism of European feminists whose want all women out of they homes.

[m102313]

we should start fining western women who arent properly covered up in the Muslim world. if their in skirts, shorts, arms out, fine them.

According to me there is no such thing as the 'Muslim world' or a 'Muslim Country'. All these so called Muslim countries are just puppets of Europe and America. They would never implement such a law as it would mean that this would ruin their relations with these western countries. It doesn't matter to them how the west is reacting to Islam and treating their Muslim brothers and sisters.

[Donia]

I don't see what the big deal is about wearing a niqaab/burkah in public. If a sister wants to wear it and she is wearing it for Allah, then she should be free to do so without wearing about if she is going to have to pay.. Adhubillah.
I do understand some concerns though as far as banking. I know of banks where it is required for your face not to be covered (in any way even ski masks) when making a transaction. That is for the individuals protection so that they can be identified. Of course a sister wearing niqaab or burkah could avoid this by having a joint account with husband or another family member and just send them to do the transactions.

[Predator]

Frenchs understand nuns wear they hijab as for they Lord but they can´t understand muslim sisters do it by same reason.

I use just hijab but if I ever travel to France after kind of law I will wear niqab as protest they law against my rights to follow my religion.

:raging:

From the below site you can see that the Burkha/Veil/Scarf is there in every major religion yet these french secular hypocrites only target islam.

http://fantasia4ever.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html

[Pygoscelis]

In secular society people acting on their religions should not be given special treatment or mistreatment. If you do X, it shouldn't matter why you did it, it should be treated the same as others doing X. Not better and not worse. There's no excuse for banning muslims from covering their faces for religious reasons if others can cover their faces for other reasons.

[aadil77]

Even though I think the Burka is utterly ridiculous, I see this new proposal as equally ridiculous. It's an irrational response to a rational concern, and even though France clearly isn't very happy about giving equal rights to Muslims- they've made this perfectly clear in the past- I do think this is an extreme measure. Muslims are 8% of France, surely the French government must acknowledge some Muslims may try and fight this?

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for covering up

[Supreme]

According to me there is no such thing as the 'Muslim world' or a 'Muslim Country'. All these so called Muslim countries are just puppets of Europe and America. They would never implement such a law as it would mean that this would ruin their relations with these western countries. It doesn't matter to them how the west is reacting to Islam and treating their Muslim brothers and sisters.

There is no such thing as a 'Muslim' country or a 'Christian' country or a 'white' country or a 'black' country- there is only such thing as a human country.

In secular society people acting on their religions should not be given special treatment or mistreatment. If you do X, it shouldn't matter why you did it, it should be treated the same as others doing X. Not better and not worse. There's no excuse for banning muslims from covering their faces for religious reasons if others can cover their faces for other reasons.

Exactly, secular society has yet to treat religious folk as equals. You either ban all religious clothing in public or none at all- how can you ban the burka and not the crucifix? Or the turban and not the kippa?

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for coveri

That's your opinion; however, let's not turn a thread about the incompetence of the French government into a discussion about nudist beaches.

[Life_Is_Short]

Then they talk of freedom.

[MAD]Impostors [/MAD]

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Even though I think the Burka is utterly ridiculous, I see this new proposal as equally ridiculous. It's an irrational response to a rational concern, and even though France clearly isn't very happy about giving equal rights to Muslims- they've made this perfectly clear in the past- I do think this is an extreme measure. Muslims are 8% of France, surely the French government must acknowledge some Muslims may try and fight this?

i think it beats your *wannabe* attitude any day.

[m102313]

There is no such thing as a 'Muslim' country or a 'Christian' country or a 'white' country or a 'black' country- there is only such thing as a human country.

I think you did not get my point, I know that there is no such country for one set of beliefs/race etc. What I meant was a country which is governed by Islamic laws (Shariah), I do not believe that there is such a country.

[Supreme]

I think you did not get my point, I know that there is no such country for one set of beliefs/race etc. What I meant was a country which is governed by Islamic laws (Shariah), I do not believe that there is such a country.

Oh, my mistake then! I apologise.

think it beats your *wannabe* attitude any day.

That doesn't make sense.

[Ar-RaYYan]

Oh, and P.S. This is just the beginning. Headscarf will probably be next.

Headscarfs are already banned in French schools!




I find those reasons ridicolous and hilarious at the same time! "public safety and sexual equality considerations" yeah right!

[Life_Is_Short]

Why can't they ban tight jeans worn by (gay) men? Why is freedom/free thinking more important then. They're a crime against nature. :ermm:

[KAding]

Just to make clear. We are NOT talking about the hijab here, but any type of clothing that completely covers the face! This covers both the burqa and in this law, also the niqaab apparently. It also covers non-religious clothing. But this law does NOT apply to headscarfs, neither Christian nor Muslim.

[KAding]

I find those reasons ridicolous and hilarious! "public safety and sexual equality considerations" yeah right!

I agree 'public safety' is a pretty lame reason. However, if gender equality is something you strive for I agree that the burqa or niqaab (which only women have to wear) is problematic.

Mind you, I completely disagree with this ban, I think it is illiberal and I don't approve of the government intervening in religious affairs like this.

[KAding]

I believe this will be followed by banning of Hijab in rest of the Europe aswell.

Oh? Why do you think that?

[KAding]

If French politicians thinks to "liberate" muslim sisters by this they are wrong. Those whose can´t pay it will stay at home - what is opposite of idelialism of European feminists whose want all women out of they homes.

That is a very good point. I agree. This will not help 'liberate' those who currently wear the thing in France.

On the other hand, I am sure it is also meant as a sign for potential Muslim immigrants to not come to France if they desire to wear a burqa or niqab.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers and peace to all of you.


I am French, I live next Paris.

What I feel in France its our government is voting always laws against a minority of French sitizen which are Muslims.

They started by the ban of the HIJAB ( headscarf ) at school, now its the Burka.

Now in france they are talking about what is to be French, what is the definition of the perfect one, the perfect is one who :


- White colour

- Eat pork

- drink alcool

- no wearing headscarf or hijab

and many things .........


I think a French sitizen can be black, white, brown yellow, jew, muslims.

I think if you are born in france and your parents are foreigners you are french

If you study, work and pay taxes you are french.


We have to work together and we have to try to learn from others people, no matter of religion, colour or what ever, we are all Humans no ? Stop racism.


One more think keep in mind in 2012 we have election here, sarkozy is trying to get racist people to vote for him.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers, peace be upon to all of you.

[-Elle-]

OH what a joke. What is this world coming to,honestly.

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations

Um. No. Sexual equality is having women being recognized for who they are and not what they wear or what they should look like, and not be depending on cosmetics and fashion to tell them what's the new "look" this season.

What I find ridiculous is that women can strip off and walk around completely naked on french beaches and not get fined for it, yet you get fined for covering up

THANK YOU for pointing that out. I was just about to do that.

The point is, France has always had problems with women covering up,and this article is simply more proof of that.


And that feminist who said it's a walking coffin. Oh joke. I never heard anything so ridiculous. It's-a-piece-of-clothes. Oh sorry,a loose piece of clothes.

Quite comfortable too I bet. (more so than those insanely tight jeans).

It's a choice to wear it, it's a right we should have. Did you ever hear of a lady in a burqa robbing a bank? That's about the only place I could imagine where is could cause valid uneasiness. So don't tell me it's for *safety* reasons. Just be straight and say you don't feel comfortable sitting in the bus next to a woman wearing it because you believe all that rubbish the media feeds you.

*sigh.*

Peace to all.

[Ar-RaYYan]

I agree 'public safety' is a pretty lame reason. However, if gender equality is something you strive for I agree that the burqa or niqaab (which only women have to wear) is problematic.

Mind you, I completely disagree with this ban, I think it is illiberal and I don't approve of the government intervening in religious affairs like this.

How is wearing burqa or niqaab problematic? These women arent forced to wear them! They choose to wear them. What has gender equality got to do with the freedom to wear a certain cloth?

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers,


Can you know guess how many women wearing the BURKA in FRance ? ? ????


I give you few minuts to reply.



Peace be upon to you all of you.

[thetruth2009]

Assalam aleykoum,


I give you the answer, can you imagine only about 2 000 women in France are wearing the BURKA are you surprised ?


Can you tell me why in France they make a lot of noise for 2 000 of our sisters ???


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[KAding]

How is wearing burqa or niqaab problematic? These women arent forced to wear them! They choose to wear them. What has gender equality got to do with the freedom to wear a certian cloth?

If you put it that way, I agree.

But for policy makers, if the policy objective is gender equality, including participation on the job market and social integration, then the burqa or niqaab will be seen as an obstacle. The chance of finding a job in France are pretty much nil if you insist on wearing either of these veils. You will also be a social outcast, that is pretty much a given. Fact also is that only women need to cover themselves so completely according to some interpretations of the Islam. In reality their goal is not to ban the cloth, but rather this orthodox interpretation of Islam that calls for women to wear a burqa.

[KAding]

Can you tell me why in France they make a lot of noise for 2 000 of our sisters ???

For the same reason why this excites Muslims so much: Symbolism. Both sides see it as part of the larger ideological struggle between Islam and secular society. Same as with the minaret ban in Switzerland really. These are symbolic (or 'principled' if you will) positions.

[crayon]

Just to make clear. We are NOT talking about the hijab here, but any type of clothing that completely covers the face! This covers both the burqa and in this law, also the niqaab apparently. It also covers non-religious clothing. But this law does NOT apply to headscarfs, neither Christian nor Muslim.

This is a niqab

The eyes show, therefore the face is not completely covered, therefore it shouldn't come under the rulings of this law.

[Danah]

What kind of injustice is this??
Niqab is banned in France....................while their women come to our countries with those disgusting bikinis in our beaches. Offending morals, Dignity, all religions (because there is no religion say that women can be naked like that)!!
What if they got banned???

[KAding]

The eyes show, therefore the face is not completely covered, therefore it shouldn't come under the rulings of this law.

From what I understand this law is formulated so that just showing the eyes is also considered 'covering the face'. I assume the law also outlaws, say, something like this:

[Muezzin]

From what I understand this law is formulated so that just showing the eyes is also considered 'covering the face'. I assume the law also outlaws, say, something like this:
[img]http://www.douwesdump.nl/dumponline/...03%20gaats.jpg[/img]

I'm sure people who wear those things would be perfectly willing to pay the proposed 750 euro fine. All bank robbers are such civil citizens, you know.

[KAding]

What kind of injustice is this??
Niqab is banned in France....................while their women come to our countries with those disgusting bikinis in our beaches. Offending morals, Dignity, all religions (because there is no religion say that women can be naked like that)!!

So why is it legal in Muslim countries to wear a bikini?

What if they got banned???

Beach tourism would die a sudden death in Muslim countries?

[S_87]

Just to make clear. We are NOT talking about the hijab here, but any type of clothing that completely covers the face! This covers both the burqa and in this law, also the niqaab apparently. It also covers non-religious clothing. But this law does NOT apply to headscarfs, neither Christian nor Muslim.

so?

the niqab/burka is a religious piece of clothing-this is a discrimination against those who choose to wear it for religious (NOT POLITICAL) reasons

well im banned from france buwahahaha

I give you the answer, can you imagine only about 2 000 women in France are wearing the BURKA are you surprised ?


Can you tell me why in France they make a lot of noise for 2 000 of our sisters ???

exactly! it seems muslim women covered is a threat to them. like they cant comprehend that many women wear the veil by CHOICE :raging::raging::raging::raging::phew:phew

[Muslimah4Eva x]

Media Tags are no longer supported

[Skavau]

France have made it very clear that this is a political reason, and has motives rooted in fear.

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations and does not restrict religious practices.

"We spoke to religious and secular figures who all confirmed [the burka] was not a religious prescription. Wearing the full body veil is about extremists who want to test the republic," he said.

"test the republic" makes no sense whatsoever, and the failure is not even in their assumption that the niqaab does that - it is in their resolution. A financial penalty? How does that enforce co-existence of pluralistic cultures? It isolates a minority and makes them feel discriminated against.

[Danah]

So why is it legal in Muslim countries to wear a bikini?



Beach tourism would die a sudden death in Muslim countries?

If Muslim countries ban such act they will accuse Muslims that they dont accept others' freedom and that they are not liberal and all those stupid things, twisted principles as usual!

Even though, very few Muslim countries counted on ones hand's fingers ban such thing.

[Supreme]

I think it's worth noting that this actually hasn't gone through the French Assembly yet. I dunno about French politics, but it's not law yet. It might never be law. One of the benefits of democracy is that the government can't simply do what they want- they need to consult the people, or at the very least politicians from other parties, before they want to make a new law.

[Uthman]

Sarkozy says burka 'not welcome' in France

Full veil not welcome in France, says Sarkozy

[Uthman]

Sarkozy aims to outlaw niqab on public transport but outright ban is ‘unworkable’

[Uthman]

France moves closer to banning full Muslim veil

Status of face-covering veils Muslim around Europe

[Uthman]

Sarkozy walks thin line between Muslim-baiter and protector

[Uthman]

France is unlikely to impose a total ban on Muslim veils but may bar them from public buildings, it has emerged.

Read more here.

[Uthman]

Nicolas Sarkozy backs a ban on the full Muslim veil

[Asiyah3]

However, if gender equality is something you strive for I agree that the burqa or niqaab (which only women have to wear) is problematic.

How convenient!

You're joking right? no no you've GOT to be joking me!

[Uthman]

France MPs' report backs Muslim face veil ban

[Uthman]

You can contribute to the debate on the Have Your Say section of the BBC News website: Do you agree with France's Muslim face veil ban?

[Uthman]

France's National Assembly should pass a resolution denouncing full Muslim face veils and then vote the strictest law possible to ban women from wearing them, a parliamentary commission proposed on Tuesday.

Read more here.

[Supreme]

I hear they're banning the clothes of nun's to. I may post a link later (if Uthman hasn't beaten me to it).

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I hear they're banning the clothes of nun's to.

U mean , Nuns won't be allowed to wear veil / their habit ? Are u sure ? I wonder , what next ?

[titus]

There is a difference between being secular and being anti-religion. This is just ridiculous and there is no place in the world for laws like this.

[Esther462]

I don't like the french for wanting to ban the veil. This is getting stuped. What will the french do next? Ban Islam from the country or ban religirn alogether.
I hope the UK see sences and don't do what french is doing.

[Asiyaah]

I just saw this on CBC news. Does france even protect freedom of religion in any charter of rights? I find this trend very unsettling. How far are European governments planning on going with these anti-Islamic laws?

In my opinion this is another example of oppression towards women. Forcing a woman to show her face in public is just as horrible as forcing her to cover her face. The point is it should be the CHOICE of the woman. If a woman feels closer to the Beloved by covering her face how dare a government force her otherwise. It seems a woman's body cannot be left alone anywhere.

I don't think such laws could pass in Canada. I ask Allah to keep religious freedoms in the land of ice and snow. :)

[Supreme]

I don't like the french for wanting to ban the veil. This is getting stuped. What will the french do next? Ban Islam from the country or ban religirn alogether.
I hope the UK see sences and don't do what french is doing.

You have nothing to worry about. In case you haven't noticed, we British aren't keen on our French 'neighbours', and lest we ever copy an idea from them ever. If we did, we'd all be speaking German and singing Heil Hitler in school right now.

[Esther462]

You have nothing to worry about. In case you haven't noticed, we British aren't keen on our French 'neighbours', and lest we ever copy an idea from them ever. If we did, we'd all be speaking German and singing Heil Hitler in school right now.

Yes your right. I'm so glad I don't live in France.

[Asiyah3]

***edit*******

[Karl]

I have no sympathy with Muslims in the West moaning about being oppressed, they are in Zionist Jew controlled lands, what do you expect? After World War 2 the Zionists won control over all the West. The Nazis were fighting tooth and nail to destroy Zionism but they lost. Muslims are the worst enemy to the Zionists so they are being crushed and oppressed. Why can't Muslims wake up to the fact. Why do Muslims go and suck up to their enemies? Is it for money that they go to enemy Zionist Jew controlled countries?

[S<Chowdhury]

Burka: To Ban or Not to Ban! (In-Focus).

French Imam Supports Burqa Ban

[Uthman]

Sarkozy backs freedom to worship as MPs recommend partial ban on full veil

[Uthman]

France's attack on the veil is a huge blunder

[thetruth2009]

France's attack on the veil is a huge blunder

Assalam aleykoum brother Uthman,


I know that, I am French and I live next Paris.

Its sad what happen in France, I do not understand the French government.

What we feel As Muslim French citizen, on TV or Radio, newspapers they are always talking about us.

They are saying is it possible to be muslim and live in France, I can say you can be Muslim and live everywhere.

Islam Has't been and will never be in contradiction with any Law of the Republic of France.

We are always discriminate, they see us like savage or animals.

I am not for the Burka and I do not agree by baning it.

As you know 2012 there is an election in France.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Uthman]

France moves towards full Islamic veil ban

This last part was the most interesting:

The Netherlands and Austria are considering a ban on the full veil, while Denmark said Thursday it would limit the use in public of the burka and niqab veils although stopping short of an outright ban.

[S<Chowdhury]

Irish Imams Urge Niqab Acceptance

[Mujahideen92]

:sl:
Next thing you know, they will ban the hijab. And indeed, if you wear the niqaab, you cover your face only partially, but they always come up with some excuse.:raging:

May Allah protect all muslim women in France.
:wa:

Didnt they already?

[heavenlyspot]

Didnt they already?

Yeah I think they did. Were you referring to Turkey?
..... Of all places :-( I recently heard that the ban was overturned maybe?

... I heard something about it being banned in Singapore as well.

[AlbanianMuslim]

France is the last place I would want to live as a muslim. I feel as though it is one of thee most intolerant countries.

[VizierX]

France is the last place I would want to live as a muslim. I feel as though it is one of thee most intolerant countries.

Same here. I'm boycotting France.

[Supreme]

Same here. I'm boycotting France.

Something I've essentially done all my life.