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Getoffmyback
01-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Is there such a label ? And why does most muslim people tend to be liberals more than staying strict adherents to the traditiolal teachings? Don't you think that there is something causing individualism in islam? strict people don't blend with liberals and vise versa. And whats causing this individualism in a monotheistic religion?
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Dagless
01-15-2010, 07:04 PM
Maybe just personality types? For example, some people stress and work hard for exams, some are laid back and relaxed. Both do all modules and pass all exams, just the ethic is different.
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Alpha Dude
01-15-2010, 07:13 PM
lol I have a different conceptualisation of liberal muslims.

I'd say they are the people that have a tendency of making acceptable those acts which have, by consensus of 1400 years of Islamic scholarship, been deemed impermissible. I believe these modernists have a weird superiority complex where they are supposedly more 'intellectually enlightened' and don't want to hear what backward scholars and imams have to say.

For example, they would a-ok things like homosexual muslim marriages, female imams leading males, people not wearing hijabs, rejection of hadith and so on. Such thinking would be classed as kufr by traditional scholars.
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Danah
01-15-2010, 07:28 PM
Some of those who are calling themselves "liberal" tend to invent weird acts to Islam to beautify it in the eyes of non-Muslims so they can become Muslims!!..........As if Islam need their Beautification in the first place <_<

Some of those funny people claim that they have to keep up with whats changing in the world hence need to "update" the religion accordingly!

Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
I believe these modernists have a weird superiority complex where they are supposedly more 'intellectually enlightened' and don't want to hear what backward scholars and imams have to say.
I have seen such people!
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Dagless
01-15-2010, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
lol I have a different conceptualisation of liberal muslims.

I'd say they are the people that have a tendency of making acceptable those acts which have, by consensus of 1400 years of Islamic scholarship, been deemed impermissible. I believe these modernists have a weird superiority complex where they are supposedly more 'intellectually enlightened' and don't want to hear what backward scholars and imams have to say.

For example, they would a-ok things like homosexual muslim marriages, female imams leading males, people not wearing hijabs, rejection of hadith and so on. Such thinking would be classed as kufr by traditional scholars.
I don't call those people liberal. Liberal is being relaxed but still adhering to the rules. When you start letting female imams lead, rejecting hadith etc. you have moved way out of the liberal category (imo, my liberal opinion :p).
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Alpha Dude
01-15-2010, 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Ferown
I don't call those people liberal. Liberal is being relaxed but still adhering to the rules. When you start letting female imams lead, rejecting hadith etc. you have moved way out of the liberal category (imo, my liberal opinion :p).
I see your point. However, these people would still consider themselves as muslims. So. :hiding:
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Getoffmyback
01-15-2010, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
I see your point. However, these people would still consider themselves as muslims. So. :hiding:
So what do you consider them?
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Alpha Dude
01-15-2010, 08:33 PM
Extremely misguided. Potential to be good muslims if they were to be properly educated and have their beliefs rectified. If they are not open to correction and continue to promote their devient beliefs, I would have to consider them disbelievers.
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-Elle-
01-15-2010, 08:41 PM
Being Muslim is not a title nor a trait. Islam is not something you can take or leave from(its rulings), although must people do that. They take and leave whatever they want from Islam, thus, leaving the "difficult" rulings, which makes them more "liberal".

I don't remember who said this, but it stuck with me.

Islam (being muslim) is a way of life. That means you learn and grow from this religion, you don't just give yourself a title, like "hey,i'm liberal, I only have to do this this and this" and leave everything else. it's your responsibility to be as religious as you can, and we are all on different levels now.

Anyway no one alive now is perfect, some are more "liberal" than others, but seek to improve themselves continuously, which in my eyes makes them just as good as any knowledgeable person in the deen.
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Minniiee..Mee..
01-15-2010, 09:05 PM
A/Aleykum
I agree with you sister. Once you understand and start getting the hang of Islam you really get stuck into it and start to enjoy it. Some young sisters nowadays find it really hard to wear the hijab because they think they won't 'fit in' at school or will get bullied. But Alhamdulillah I'm glad that allah made me strong and Ive worn mine ever since young age. I don't really think that the youths, even though I'm a youth myself, I dont think they should look at the surrounding environment but at what Allah is telling them to do, especially when it is good for ourselves.
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Getoffmyback
01-15-2010, 09:40 PM
i really hate to see a crack that is impossible to be fixed between muslims on a social level i mean strict believers will always give "liberals" the fish eye and vise versa.
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-Elle-
01-15-2010, 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by Getoffmyback
i really hate to see a crack that is impossible to be fixed between muslims on a social level i mean strict believers will always give "liberals" the fish eye and vise versa.
because there is no such thing as liberal Muslims in Islam. Like I mentioned, Islam is a way of life, and you are continuously learning and improving yourself(thus,becoming more religious) in regards to Islam. It is not a decision you take to be more liberal, just like there is no extremism in Islam. We do not condone that nor consider that of our religion by the way, but I am sure this has been said numerous times before on this forum.
If one's decision is to be Muslim? Fine. But know that he must follow it's teachings properly and fairly, and not twist and turn our teachings to befit his own life.

That said, more knowledgeable people in our religion have absolutely no right to judge other Muslims, even if their actions are far from the teachings of our religion.

Like Tariq Ramadan once said:

"I don't like what you are doing, but I respect who you are.You know why? because maybe who you are tomorrow will be better than who I am today. "

so I agree with you on that point; no one should be judging the other.
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Supreme
01-16-2010, 12:06 AM
If liberalism doesn't exist in Islam, is it OK for one to assume it is not a complete way of life, as it does not cater to the needs of the entire population?
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Alpha Dude
01-16-2010, 12:17 AM
I don't think your question is entirely logical there. Islam is the definition that people have to follow. Not the other way round. Islam doesn't bend to the whims of the people.
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-Elle-
01-16-2010, 12:24 AM
If liberalism doesn't exist in Islam, is it OK for one to assume it is not a complete way of life, as it does not cater to the needs of the entire population?
It is a way of life which they have chosen to follow and adhere to; therefore the population which chooses this religion must not expect the religion to cater to them, rather for them to satisfy their needs by following the religion, which are completely satisfied(if effort is put in to seek this satisfaction.) And those who consider themselves liberals do not seek to satisfy their needs by following Islam, rather seek to remove bits and pieces from it, in order to make it simpler for them.

here's the definition of liberalism:
a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution

Liberalism requires change and alteration, and since we believe Islam to be a complete way of life, then it does not require change no alteration, and that is why there is no liberalism in Islam; because Islam does not need any changes.

I'd also like to point out that muslims who live and appear more liberal are not bad muslims, nor should we look down upon them, because we do not know if they are in the process of learning and improving themselves.


Peace!
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Supreme
01-16-2010, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by houda~
It is a way of life which they have chosen to follow and adhere to; therefore the population which chooses this religion must not expect the religion to cater to them, rather for them to satisfy their needs by following the religion, which are completely satisfied(if effort is put in to seek this satisfaction.) And those who consider themselves liberals do not seek to satisfy their needs by following Islam, rather seek to remove bits and pieces from it, in order to make it simpler for them.

here's the definition of liberalism:
a political orientation that favors social progress by reform and by changing laws rather than by revolution

Liberalism requires change and alteration, and since we believe Islam to be a complete way of life, then it does not require change no alteration, and that is why there is no liberalism in Islam; because Islam does not need any changes.

I'd also like to point out that muslims who live and appear more liberal are not bad muslims, nor should we look down upon them, because we do not know if they are in the process of learning and improving themselves.


Peace!

Thank you for this answer. It had addressed my queries.
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