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Rabi'ya
01-19-2010, 02:03 PM
:sl:

To what extent should we observe segregation within everyday life?

For example, on the street, in the shops, at work, uni or school, what about leisure activities?

I have listened to some good lectures previously but wondered if anyone had any further input on the topic as I still have some burning issues.

I remember a talk by brother Yusuf Estes, he was asked by a non muslim as to why the lectures are separated. he responded by saying that it was for the comfort of the men and women. that men and women could not relax and feel confortable around each other as much as if it was separate. Also, if a mother wants to feed her child she would not be able to as she would have to expose her awrah. more importantly, when a women is sat for hours her scarf may slip or she may accidentally show her wrist, arm, ankle etc, if they are around women only then this is not a cause for concern as as such they will feel more relaxed. The men also, would feel uncomfortable thinking that his wife/sister was sitting next to another man for this length of time.

anyway, i shall wait for you guys' input.
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CosmicPathos
01-19-2010, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by ~SilverOrchid~
:sl:

To what extent should we observe segregation within everyday life?

For example, on the street, in the shops, at work, uni or school, what about leisure activities?

I have listened to some good lectures previously but wondered if anyone had any further input on the topic as I still have some burning issues.

I remember a talk by brother Yusuf Estes, he was asked by a non muslim as to why the lectures are separated. he responded by saying that it was for the comfort of the men and women. that men and women could not relax and feel confortable around each other as much as if it was separate. Also, if a mother wants to feed her child she would not be able to as she would have to expose her awrah. more importantly, when a women is sat for hours her scarf may slip or she may accidentally show her wrist, arm, ankle etc, if they are around women only then this is not a cause for concern as as such they will feel more relaxed. The men also, would feel uncomfortable thinking that his wife/sister was sitting next to another man for this length of time.

anyway, i shall wait for you guys' input.
:wa:

From what I understand, segregation is to be observed by default in every aspect of life. Segregation involves not talking to the opposite gender except in cases when that is the only option. So for example, a man has done his grocery shopping and the cashier is some attractive woman. He should talk and look to her ONLY that which is necessary for completing his monetary transaction. Asking her "how is your day, looks busy" or anything of that sort is crossing the boundaries.

I do not know what are the functions of segregation except that Allah (swt) has made it obligatory and that is reason enough to follow it.
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Rabi'ya
01-19-2010, 02:27 PM
:sl:

thanks for your reply. let me give you some examples.

School/Uni/Work - you are required to work together in a group. what etiquettes shoudl be observed if this is a mixed group.

Leisure Activities - gym, if a woman is properly covered, is there anything wrong with attending a mixed gym, after all no freemixing and chatting amongst people
- raquet sports, my husband and i have been to play badminton together before now, there have been other males in the next court, what should we do about this? is there anythign wrong? I always play in jilbab and scarf.

any advice?
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CosmicPathos
01-19-2010, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by ~SilverOrchid~
:sl:

thanks for your reply. let me give you some examples.

School/Uni/Work - you are required to work together in a group. what etiquettes shoudl be observed if this is a mixed group.

Leisure Activities - gym, if a woman is properly covered, is there anything wrong with attending a mixed gym, after all no freemixing and chatting amongst people
- raquet sports, my husband and i have been to play badminton together before now, there have been other males in the next court, what should we do about this? is there anythign wrong? I always play in jilbab and scarf.

any advice?
- For school uni, at least from my experience, I ALWAYS tried to avoid bringing females in my group. Sometimes it was not possible. So I kept interaction to the topic at hand. I tried to avoid group meetings unless my absence would have effect on group's performance. So I avoided all those "group study" meetings and instead communicated via email but I did attend practice sessions.

- My gym has open for all section and "women only" section. Surprisingly, despite being given a "women only" section, some women come to "open for all section!" The excuse is that "the timings for women only are so odd" or some other crap. Anyways. So I cannot avoid being in a gym where women are not present. But I try to choose timings where it is least likely for people (including women) to be there and that is usually 7-8ish am. Badminton is a tricky situation. I hope someone else can give a better opinion.
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Rabi'ya
01-19-2010, 02:43 PM
I have to say when it comes to gym timings they usually put women only sessions at the quietest time of the day.....and that is usually at the oddest time TBH. but at least they are trying to provide something for everyone. they have men only sessions too, but they are really late at night. Alhamdulillah the local swimming pools also have men only and women only sessions.
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CosmicPathos
01-19-2010, 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by ~SilverOrchid~
I have to say when it comes to gym timings they usually put women only sessions at the quietest time of the day.....and that is usually at the oddest time TBH. but at least they are trying to provide something for everyone. they have men only sessions too, but they are really late at night. Alhamdulillah the local swimming pools also have men only and women only sessions.
Well, thats the nature of life in a secular society. If one wants to keep their faith strong, they might have to get out of comfort zone in regards to timings and orgnize their day accordingly for using those odd times. If one wants to maintain their comfort zone and live in leisure, they might have to risk their faith and deeds.

Its our choice.
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Rabi'ya
01-19-2010, 03:01 PM
:sl:

interesting point. I dont think its about confort zone. I think its more about what takes priority within your life. kids, work, prayer, spending time with your partner.

I'm gona wait and see what everyone else has to say inshAllah

jazakAllah kheir for your input and replies
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جوري
01-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Islam isn't and wasn't a segregated society.. we need to observe the proper rules of conduct with the opposite gender but not live in two separate societies .. Grown men used to learn from Saiida Aisha (RA) ..

And Allah swt knows best

:w:
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Supreme
01-19-2010, 06:19 PM
What about religious segregation? Thoughts/feelings on that? Should there be an exclusively Muslim neighbourhood and exclusively Christian one for example?
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Cabdullahi
01-19-2010, 06:34 PM
from what i've encountered women should not use the same gym as the men...their gym should be somewhere far away and they should perform their exercises preferably in quarantine until they take a full shower.
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cat eyes
01-19-2010, 07:02 PM
:sl: well sis i think in some places where there is men for example a resturant there is not fear of fitnah (i believe) i know some friends of mine they would not even go with u to a resturant for fear of a man being there but there is certain places where u can sit to avoid that.

i believe Allah swt dose not want to make our way of life difficult on us either so there is no obligations on us to keep constantly looking over our shoulders to see who is behind us and who is watching. i believe the biggest place for fitnah is a university because u have to sit along side the kufir women and men and i have heard of men cheating on his wife including a woman i know well her husband had committed adultery with a girl from university so i strongly believe there is a lot of fitnah in universities
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Cabdullahi
01-19-2010, 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
:sl: well sis i think in some places where there is men for example a resturant there is not fear of fitnah (i believe) i know some friends of mine they would not even go with u to a resturant for fear of a man being there but there is certain places where u can sit to avoid that.

i believe Allah swt dose not want to make our way of life difficult on us either so there is no obligations on us to keep constantly looking over our shoulders to see who is behind us and who is watching. i believe the biggest place for fitnah is a university because u have to sit along side the kufir women and men and i have heard of men cheating on his wife including a woman i know well her husband had committed adultery with a girl from university so i strongly believe there is a lot of fitnah in universities
^ i agree the above is the real battle ground where the toughest psychological warfare takes place
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KittenLover
01-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
:sl: well sis i think in some places where there is men for example a resturant there is not fear of fitnah (i believe) i know some friends of mine they would not even go with u to a resturant for fear of a man being there but there is certain places where u can sit to avoid that.

i believe Allah swt dose not want to make our way of life difficult on us either so there is no obligations on us to keep constantly looking over our shoulders to see who is behind us and who is watching. i believe the biggest place for fitnah is a university because u have to sit along side the kufir women and men and i have heard of men cheating on his wife including a woman i know well her husband had committed adultery with a girl from university so i strongly believe there is a lot of fitnah in universities
yeah places like universitys and shopping centres and market places are the play ground of shaytaan. Shaytaan loves those places and Allah dislikes them. Cos all the evil takes place in those environments, the looking and lusting.

you know the saying, "it starts with a look, then a smile, then a conversation, then a meeting place and we all know where it leads to"

I actually have a dream to open up a female only educational establishment that produces doctors and various other professionals :p and the teachers are female and only female applicants are accepted and all the staff is female.

many times men go through these battle grounds and fail and give in to the temptation, you have to be strong constantly remembering allah saying "'auzu billahi mina shaytaan nira jeem"
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cat eyes
01-19-2010, 07:18 PM
the sister who i was talking about, her husband had cheated on her with a non muslim i still remember that day when she came over to my home crying her eyes out with her little daughter.. all i will say is be cautious to all those brothers who are married and always remember the damage it will do afterwards. it aint worth it
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KittenLover
01-19-2010, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
the sister who i was talking about, her husband had cheated on her with a non muslim i still remember that day when she came over to my home crying her eyes out with her little daughter.. all i will say is be cautious to all those brothers who are married and always remember the damage it will do afterwards. it aint worth it
poor sis :cry: they even had kids!! :cry: you would think the kids make a person think thrice!!
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Rabi'ya
01-20-2010, 09:00 PM
jazakAllahkheir for all your replies.

does anyone know of any hadith which relate spcifically to public areas where women and men would have been present, for example weddings, Eid, or the birth of a baby. what was the conduct during these times?
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