Christian Preacher tells Christians to stop eating PORK

[Predator]

When God Almighty prohibits something for His servants, He does so certainly out of His overflowing mercy on them, to save them from all what may bring them harm; He is indeed Ever-Kind and Most Glorious!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3XS9JftEns

Well said , I take off my hat to Joel Oesteen for coming one step closer to Islam

[titus]

Or one step closer to Judaism :)

[Amadeus85]

Or one step closer to Judaism :)

Haha yeah, its judaization of christianity, or rather I should say - rabbinization and talmudanization. But thats normal to groups like J. Osteen'.

[Supreme]

I agree, it's to do with Christians wanting to become more Jewish, ie wanting to emulate some of God's old Covenant. I do admire them for it, although I do think it's rather unnecessary.

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[cat eyes]

i love the accent ;D

[cat eyes]

jazakAllah for sharing bro

[Predator]

I agree, it's to do with Christians wanting to become more Jewish, ie wanting to emulate some of God's old Covenant. I do admire them for it, although I do think it's rather unnecessary.

Guarding your health from that filth and garbage in the toxins of the Pigs' fat and honouring of God is unnecessary ???

Dont you find it shocking how your God would "change" his mind in the bible when pigs havent turned over a new leaf and continue to stay dirty and eat filth and garbage even today

[Supreme]

Guarding your health from that filth and garbage in the toxins of the Pigs' fat and honouring of God is unnecessary ???

Dont you find it shocking how your God would "change" his mind in the bible when pigs havent turned over a new leaf and continue to stay dirty and eat filth and garbage even today

Pork is actually a good source protein. The tenderloin can contain less fat than a chicken breast. It contains vitamins such as B6, B12, niacin, thiamine and riboflavin. Science, contrary to Middle Eastern folklore, has proven that pork can be just as healthy as any other meat. I personally couldn't care less what pigs role in, the hygiene of the animal has absoloutely no correlation with the quality of its meat. As for the point about honouring God, I think He's more concerned with prayer, worship and good deeds to others than such a trivial matter as whether or not I eat pork.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Gods also concerned with what you eat , thats why he tells us of certain foods we eat and not eat. for example alcohol, it gets a person drunk and also harms the body and more others.

However, the video proves enough of the point..to not eat pig because of all that he just told you and us.
If god was only concerned for prayer and worship, then when should pray being drunk? or eat stuff he forbids you to or do things he forbids you to in your case.

[Italianguy]

It's about time!

[Danah]

I wonder if people put the religion thingy aside but knowing all about the pigs and their eating habits and all diseases they may cause, will they still eat it?

It's about time!

To what?

[Italianguy]

I wonder if people put the religion thingy aside but knowing all about the pigs and their eating habits and all diseases they may cause, will they still eat it?



To what?

That a well known evangelist tells poeple not to eat pork.....ewwwwww+o(

[Supreme]

I wonder if people put the religion thingy aside but knowing all about the pigs and their eating habits and all diseases they may cause, will they still eat it?

Most foods in excess will kill you or cause diseases. Too much salt will lead to high blood pressure, too much chocolate will cause obesity, too much sugar will cause gum disease, etc. People aren't going to stop eating one bit of food on the off chance it'll give them a disease if they eat too much of it, or else they may as well give up all food bar fruit and vegetables.

[Italianguy]

Haha yeah, its judaization of christianity, or rather I should say - rabbinization and talmudanization. But thats normal to groups like J. Osteen'.

Do you actually like it? I used to eat it 10 years ago. I never could get used to it+o( maybe i didn't have the right meat?

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Most foods in excess will kill you or cause diseases. Too much salt will lead to high blood pressure, too much chocolate will cause obesity, too much sugar will cause gum disease, etc. People aren't going to stop eating one bit of food on the off chance it'll give them a disease if they eat too much of it, or else they may as well give up all food bar fruit and vegetables.

Yes, but God Your creator, doesnt forbid it, chocolate and salt..however they do cause illness and diseases if you eat too much..
Have you ever thought of the diseases occur whilst eating Pork? theyre much much worser..

[Danah]

Most foods in excess will kill you or cause diseases. Too much salt will lead to high blood pressure, too much chocolate will cause obesity, too much sugar will cause gum disease, etc. People aren't going to stop eating one bit of food on the off chance it'll give them a disease if they eat too much of it, or else they may as well give up all food bar fruit and vegetables.

What a comparison!!!
You don't even need to take it in excess to get its harm. Its a harm on itself even with one bite of it.

[Insaanah]

"Pigs, like the above insects, will eat the feces of herbivores that leave a significant amount of semi-digested matter. In certain cultures, it was common for poor families to collect horse feces as a dietary supplement for their pigs. Pigs are also known to eat their own feces. However, domesticated pigs should not be allowed to eat any excrement, as this contributes to the risk of parasite infection. Perhaps for reasons associated with pigs' ready coprophagy (eating faeces), pork was scripturally banned as human food first in the Old Testament and then the Qur'an. Practicing Jews, Seventh Day Adventists and Muslims familiar with this behavior by pigs may cite it as an additional important reason why pork shouldn't be eaten."

From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia

God didn't change his mind when it came to Christians. Jesus (peace be upon him) came not to destroy the law but to fulfil.

God allowed pure things to be eaten. How a faeces eating animal can be pure is beyond me...

It doesn't matter how cleanly pigs are kept nowadays, thats the innate nature of a pig left to it's own devices.

[Italianguy]

"Pigs, like the above insects, will eat the feces of herbivores that leave a significant amount of semi-digested matter. In certain cultures, it was common for poor families to collect horse feces as a dietary supplement for their pigs. Pigs are also known to eat their own feces. However, domesticated pigs should not be allowed to eat any excrement, as this contributes to the risk of parasite infection. Perhaps for reasons associated with pigs' ready coprophagy (eating faeces), pork was scripturally banned as human food first in the Old Testament and then the Qur'an. Practicing Jews, Seventh Day Adventists and Muslims familiar with this behavior by pigs may cite it as an additional important reason why pork shouldn't be eaten."

From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia

God didn't change his mind when it came to Christians. Jesus (peace be upon him) came not to destroy the law but to fulfil.

God allowed pure things to be eaten. How a faeces eating animal can be pure is beyond me...

It doesn't matter how cleanly pigs are kept nowadays, thats the innate nature of a pig left to it's own devices.

I know...their gross!+o( I have seen Joel Osteen live and his sermens are great. .....Did you hear the part where he said they eat there dead young+o(. They eat trash, feces, and digest the food in only 4 hours, not enough time to process the diseases and stuff, it's stored in their fat+o(...ewwwwwweeeee

It's gross.....but so are spiders:phew

[Predator]

Have you ever thought of the diseases occur whilst eating Pork? theyre much much worser..

Swine flu itself is a good example . the epicentre of the disease started from mexico and latin countries where pig breeding is at its highest

swine flu is a warning to everyone in this Earth that pork is never good to us..that is why God has prohibited human to deal with pork no matter you're eating it or just breeding it..

[Froggy]

Swine flu itself is a good example . the epicentre of the disease started from mexico and latin countries where pig breeding is at its highest

swine flu is a warning to everyone in this Earth that pork is never good to us..that is why God has prohibited human to deal with pork no matter you're eating it or just breeding it..

That's a non-argument that's been dealt with before. How do you explain bird flu then?
I remember news saying the state of Argentina is encouragin the consumption of meat other than beef, including pork. The president said pork spiced up her "marital" life.

[Predator]

That's a non-argument that's been dealt with before. How do you explain bird flu then?

Rat flu and Bird flu are nowhere near as destructive as the swine flu because pig itself is most filthiest animal and H1N1 got mutated there and spread to humans .The swine flu is also highly contagious and is expected to affect 2 billion as per WHO

I remember news saying the state of Argentina is encouragin the consumption of meat other than beef, including pork. The president said pork spiced up her "marital" life.

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the eart and the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In the American continents , most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say “you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife.” If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs.

Seriously , Is this the "marital life" you're talking about ?

[Froggy]

Rat flu and Bird flu are nowhere near as destructive as the swine flu because pig itself is most filthiest animal and H1N1 got mutated there and spread to humans .The swine flu is also highly contagious and is expected to affect 2 billion as per WHO




The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the eart and the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate. In the American continents , most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say “you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife.” If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs.

Seriously , Is this the "marital life" you're talking about ?

So far it hasn't been nearly that contagious, only a handful of people died and it's not spreading at the predicted rate. The European Commission is even probing the possibility of major pharmaceutical companies influencing the WHO's decision to declare it a pandemic.
The second part is absolute rubbish, you can't possibly believe it yourself?

[Predator]

So far it hasn't been nearly that contagious, only a handful of people died

So far nearly 15000 deaths ? how is that a handful ? If it wasnt that contagious why have over a 100000 been affected worldwide and so much quarantine being done

The second part is absolute rubbish, you can't possibly believe it yourself?

Wrong , I believe thats spot on . because most of these countries which eat pork in a big way , the men often sells their wives, sister , daughters and mothers to the screen simulating rape and he enjoys it saying " my wife is a star " .

[Predator]

Still not convinced why we should not eat pork then watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy6Bn...eature=related

[Supreme]

What a comparison!!!
You don't even need to take it in excess to get its harm. Its a harm on itself even with one bite of it.

Well, I've been eating it for practically all my life (alongside bacon), and I can assure you, it has never done me any harm.

Yes, but God Your creator, doesnt forbid it, chocolate and salt..however they do cause illness and diseases if you eat too much..
Have you ever thought of the diseases occur whilst eating Pork? theyre much much worser..

Do enlighten me of these diseases. Are they only concieved by eating pork specifically?

God didn't change his mind when it came to Christians. Jesus (peace be upon him) came not to destroy the law but to fulfil.

God allowed pure things to be eaten. How a faeces eating animal can be pure is beyond me...

Jesus Himself said that nothing that goes into a man can make him impure, because it goes to his stomach and then back out his body. Rather, Jesus intelligently pointed out that rather it's what comes out of a man that makes him impure, because it comes from the heart.

Swine flu itself is a good example . the epicentre of the disease started from mexico and latin countries where pig breeding is at its highest

Swine flu was pathetic. It killed barely a thousand people globally. You can't honestly think it's a good argument against pork can you?

swine flu is a warning to everyone in this Earth that pork is never good to us..that is why God has prohibited human to deal with pork no matter you're eating it or just breeding it..

This is where you should attempt to stop believing everything Middle Eastern folklore tells you and start using scientific analysis. I've already posted the benefits of pork, it can be healthier than chicken.

The pig is the most shameless animal on the face of the eart and the only animal that invites its friends to have sex with its mate.

I'm not sure if this is true, most likely you've made it up as you seem to be a fan of making things up, but I don't think that has anything whatsoever to do with health or the quality of meat. 'Oh, let's not eat that animal, it's had an evil sex life'. How many people do you seriously think care?

In the American continents , most people consume pork. Many times after dance parties, they have swapping of wives; i.e. many say “you sleep with my wife and I will sleep with your wife.” If you eat pigs then you behave like pigs.

LOL- I've always been thankful that my education was decent, because this is a good example of education gone wrong.

[Froggy]

So far nearly 15000 deaths ? how is that a handful ? If it wasnt that contagious why have over a 100000 been affected worldwide and so much quarantine being done



Wrong , I believe thats spot on . because most of these countries which eat pork in a big way , the men often sells their wives, sister , daughters and mothers to the screen simulating rape and he enjoys it saying " my wife is a star " .

I don't know where you get your dta from and I certainly don't know where you come up with that sort of rubbish, it's weird!

[Esther462]

That a well known evangelist tells poeple not to eat pork.....ewwwwww+o(

My family are evangelist and they eat pork. In there church they say nothing about what you should and shoudn't eat.
I went to a church camp before I went back to Islam andd everyone was eatting pork and drinking alchol.

[Insaanah]

Jesus Himself said that nothing that goes into a man can make him impure, because it goes to his stomach and then back out his body. Rather, Jesus intelligently pointed out that rather it's what comes out of a man that makes him impure, because it comes from the heart

I didn't say anything about humans becoming impure. I said:

"God didn't change his mind when it came to Christians. Jesus (peace be upon him) came not to destroy the law but to fulfil.

God allowed pure things to be eaten. How a faeces eating animal can be pure is beyond me...

It doesn't matter how cleanly pigs are kept nowadays, thats the innate nature of a pig left to it's own devices."


The Bible contains the following statements regarding pork, the first two of which are clear prohibitions

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. Deuteronoomy 14:8

A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable [things is in] their vessels; Isaiah 65:3-4

For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:16-17

I guess you believe in the Bible? It's statements on the matter seem perfectly clear to me.

Peace.

[Darth Ultor]

Pork is really unhealthy anyway. It must be haraam for a reason.

[Predator]

Swine flu was pathetic. It killed barely a thousand people globally. You can't honestly think it's a good argument against pork can you?

First get your facts right. It killed over 14000 so far and continues to kill at an alarming rate in the areas where its affected and it has not yet subsided and as per WHO estimated to affect 2 billions thats a 3rd of the world population

This is where you should attempt to stop believing everything Middle Eastern folklore tells you and start using scientific analysis.

lol, what Scientific analysis do u want ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig

Pigs harbour a range of parasites and diseases that can be transmitted to humans. These include trichinosis, Taenia solium, cysticercosis, and brucellosis. Pigs are also known to host large concentrations of parasitic ascarid worms in their digestive tract.[22] The presence of these diseases and parasites is one of the reasons why pork meat should always be well cooked or cured before eating. Some religious groups that consider pork unclean refer to these issues as support for their views.[23]

Pigs are susceptible to bronchitis and pneumonia. They have small lungs in relation to body size; for this reason, bronchitis or pneumonia can kill a pig quickly.[24] There is concern that pigs may allow animal viruses such as influenza or Ebola Reston to infect humans more easily. Some strains of influenza are endemic in pigs (see Swine influenza), and pigs also can acquire human influenza.

Pigs can be aggressive and pig-induced injuries are relatively common in areas where pigs are reared or where they form part of the wild or feral fauna.[25]

I've already posted the benefits of pork, it can be healthier than chicken.

Deadly ,you mean , yes the swine flu is deadlier than both SARS and bird flu combined Another dangerous helminthes is Taenia Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Taenia tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ovas present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

I'm not sure if this is true, most likely you've made it up as you seem to be a fan of making things up, but I don't think that has anything whatsoever to do with health or the quality of meat. 'Oh, let's not eat that animal, it's had an evil sex life'.

Wrong , no i didnt made this up. The article is from the medical doctor and preacher himself
http://www.islamicvoice.com/february.99/zakir.htm

LOL- I've always been thankful that my education was decent, because this is a good example of education gone wrong.

Well,I am thankful to godfor his guidance and that he didnt make me a pork addict like you who chose to turn a blind eye to this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy6Bn...eature=related


and say

and just continues to post pathetic rubbish that pork is safe ,clean and healthy

This kind of attitude reminds me of this verse from the Bible

Matthew 13:14 "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;


Lol , its sad that your "Lord" will once again destroy your favorite food in his second coming and there is nothing any pork addict can do about it

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

[Supreme]

The Bible contains the following statements regarding pork, the first two of which are clear prohibitions

And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he [is] unclean to you. Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you. Leviticus 11:7-8

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. Deuteronoomy 14:8

A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick; Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable [things is in] their vessels; Isaiah 65:3-4

For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one [tree] in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:16-17

I guess you believe in the Bible? It's statements on the matter seem perfectly clear to me.

Peace.

The Old Testament, relevant though it is, contains God's laws with His convenant with the Jews. To be a Christian, it was established by James the Just thousands of years ago that one does not have to become Jewish first, thus we do not have to follow Jewish law.

My family are evangelist and they eat pork. In there church they say nothing about what you should and shoudn't eat.
I went to a church camp before I went back to Islam andd everyone was eatting pork and drinking alchol.

That's because neither alcohol nor pork is forbidden in Christianity.

[Darth Ultor]

Question about the halal laws: do you also not mix dairy with meat?

[Insaanah]

The Old Testament, relevant though it is, contains God's laws with His convenant with the Jews. To be a Christian, it was established by James the Just thousands of years ago that one does not have to become Jewish first, thus we do not have to follow Jewish law.['

Sorry, my mistake. I always thought Christians claimed to love and follow what Jesus taught! I could have sworn Christians loved Jesus...I must have that wrong!

[Supreme]

First get your facts right. It killed over 14000 so far and continues to kill at an alarming rate in the areas where its affected and it has not yet subsided and as per WHO estimated to affect 2 billions thats a 3rd of the world population

And you think that's a lot of people? Compared to other diseases, such as the black death, it is actually the disease equivalent of a worm.

Pigs harbour a range of parasites and diseases that can be transmitted to humans. These include trichinosis, Taenia solium, cysticercosis, and brucellosis. Pigs are also known to host large concentrations of parasitic ascarid worms in their digestive tract.[22] The presence of these diseases and parasites is one of the reasons why pork meat should always be well cooked or cured before eating. Some religious groups that consider pork unclean refer to these issues as support for their views.[23]

Pigs are susceptible to bronchitis and pneumonia. They have small lungs in relation to body size; for this reason, bronchitis or pneumonia can kill a pig quickly.[24] There is concern that pigs may allow animal viruses such as influenza or Ebola Reston to infect humans more easily. Some strains of influenza are endemic in pigs (see Swine influenza), and pigs also can acquire human influenza.

Pigs can be aggressive and pig-induced injuries are relatively common in areas where pigs are reared or where they form part of the wild or feral fauna.[25

Do you eat chicken? Let's use wiki as a source like you did:

Chickens are susceptible to several parasites, including lice, mites, ticks, fleas, and intestinal worms, as well as other diseases. (Despite the name, they are not affected by Chickenpox; the illness is generally restricted to humans.[28])

Some of the common diseases that affect chickens are shown below:

Name Common Name Caused by
Aspergillosis fungi
Avian influenza bird flu virus
Histomoniasis Blackhead disease protozoal parasite
Botulism toxin
Cage Layer Fatigue mineral deficiencies, lack of exercise
Campylobacteriosis tissue injury in the gut
Coccidiosis parasites
Colds virus
Crop Bound improper feeding
Dermanyssus gallinae Red mite parasite
Egg bound oversized egg
Erysipelas bacteria
Fatty Liver Hemorrhagic Syndrome high-energy food
Fowl Cholera bacteria
Fowl pox virus
Fowl Typhoid bacteria
Gallid herpesvirus 1
or Infectious Laryngotracheitis virus
Gapeworm Syngamus trachea worms
Infectious Bronchitis virus
Infectious Bursal Disease Gumboro virus
Infectious Coryza bacteria
Lymphoid leukosis Avian leukosis virus
Marek's disease virus
Moniliasis Yeast Infection
or Thrush fungi
Mycoplasmas bacteria-like organisms
Newcastle disease virus
Necrotic Enteritis bacteria
Omphalitis Mushy chick disease umbilical cord stump
Peritonitis[29] Infection in abdomen from egg yolk
Prolapse
Psittacosis bacteria
Pullorum Salmonella bacteria
Scaly leg parasites
Squamous cell carcinoma cancer
Tibial dyschondroplasia speed growing
Toxoplasmosis protozoal parasite
Ulcerative Enteritis bacteria

Therefore, if you choose not to eat pigs because they are unhealthy, by the same standards you should not eat chicken, as they are equally unhealthy.

Deadly ,you mean , yes the swine flu is deadlier than both SARS and bird flu combined Another dangerous helminthes is Taenia Tichurasis. A common misconception about pork is that if it is cooked well, these ova die. In a research project undertaken in America, it was found that out of twenty-four people suffering from Taenia tichurasis, twenty two had cooked the pork very well. This indicates that the ovas present in the pork do not die under normal cooking temperature.

You realise just how rare these diseases can be?

Wrong , no i didnt made this up. The article is from the medical doctor and preacher himself
http://www.islamicvoice.com/february.99/zakir.htm

Just as I suspected. An Islamic preacher using arguments against pigs without any scientific sources to back up his claims? How surprising!

am thankful to godfor his guidance and that he didnt make me a pork addict like you who chose to turn a blind eye to this

I could give up pork tomorrow if I believe it'd benefit me in any way, so I am therefore not an addict.

Lol , its sad that your "Lord" will once again destroy your favorite food in his second coming and there is nothing any pork addict can do about it

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

That verse is from the Hadith, hence it means nothing to me or what I believe Jesus will do.

Sorry, my mistake. I always thought Christians claimed to love and follow what Jesus taught! I could have sworn Christians loved Jesus...I must have that wrong!

Did Jesus ever teach against pork? I don't think so.

[Insaanah]

Did Jesus ever teach against pork? I don't think so.

Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

[Grace Seeker]

Sorry, my mistake. I always thought Christians claimed to love and follow what Jesus taught! I could have sworn Christians loved Jesus...I must have that wrong!

And Jesus never taught that non-Jews have to follow laws that were meant for Jews only. What don't you get about that?!

[Grace Seeker]

Matthew 5:17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

To quote from one of my favorite movies: "I don't think that means what you think it means."


"To fulfill the law" is NOT synonymous with either "to uphold" or "to keep" the law. What Jesus did in fulfilling the law was to bring it to completion. Well, if you've fulfill the contract on your car and completed making payments, do you keep making payments? If you've completed painting the house do you keep painting it? If Jesus fulfilled the covenant promises made in the Law that Israel shall be a light to the nations by being lifted up on the cross so that salvation is offered not just to the Jews, but to all people who like Abraham come to God in faith, then what purpose is their for continuing to keep doing things that are no longer necessary -- and for those who are non-Jews, never were necessary.

[Insaanah]

And Jesus never taught that non-Jews have to follow laws that were meant for Jews only. What don't you get about that?!

Peace, Grace Seeker,

What I don't get (and this could be my own lack of knowledge) is that when Christians are asked about something that the Bible clearly states but Christians don't follow, the answer is sometimes that, "this doesn't need to be followed by Christians".

If people say "but it's in the Bible", the answer from Christians is normally:
"Ah...but James the Just said....", OR
"Ah...but Paul said...." , OR
"Ah...but so and so said..."

To an outsider it seems that Christians use other people's names to justify not following what's in the Bible. That then makes you wonder why the faith is called Christianity if other people's opinions other than Jesus (peace be upon him) are given so much weight, even if what they've said goes against what is clearly stated in the Bible.

In the example of James the Just, Supreme said (in response to the Biblical quotes regarding the prohibition of pork) that, "To be a Christian, it was established by James the Just thousands of years ago that one does not have to become Jewish first, thus we do not have to follow Jewish law."

That is quite a major statement to make. So did James the Just say that and that his been followed even though Jesus (peace be upon him) never said it, or, did Jesus (peace be upon him) actually say it and it has just been paraphrased by James the Just?

Peace.

[Predator]

To quote from one of my favorite movies: "I don't think that means what you think it means."


"To fulfill the law" is NOT synonymous with either "to uphold" or "to keep" the law. What Jesus did in fulfilling the law was to bring it to completion. Well, if you've fulfill the contract on your car and completed making payments, do you keep making payments? If you've completed painting the house do you keep painting it? If Jesus fulfilled the covenant promises made in the Law that Israel shall be a light to the nations by being lifted up on the cross so that salvation is offered not just to the Jews, but to all people who like Abraham come to God in faith, then what purpose is their for continuing to keep doing things that are no longer necessary -- and for those who are non-Jews, never were necessary.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Mathew 5:17-20)

In other words there is no heaven for you unless you are better than the Jew and you cant be better than the jews by not keeping the Laws and the commandment the first of which is broken by the trinity

"God" Came For The Jews Only: "But he answered and said, I am not sent but
unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew, 15:24)

Where the american anglo saxon there in Israel 2000 years ago ?

Racial Discrimination of "God": "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and
commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any
city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel." (Matthew, 10:5-6)

According to "God", The Gentiles Are Dogs: "It is not meet to take the
children's bread, and to cast it to dogs." (matthew, 15:26)

Amazingly, Paul went to such extremes that he claimed Jesus destroyed the Jewish Law!

“He (Jesus) brought the hostility to an end, by abolishing the Law of commandments with its regulations”. (Ephesians 2:14)

Needless to say, the passage contradicts Matthew 5:17-20 where Jesus specifically states that he came to preach the Law, not to destroy it.

Paul gave evidence that he was building a new religion, a complete deviation from Jesus’ teachings:

Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: (Romans 15:20)

What is Paul implying here?

If Paul had been spreading the original teaching of Jesus, then “another man’s foundation” would have been the same as his. They would both have been involved in building the same structure. The people who were hearing about Jesus, or rather Christ, for the first time from Paul’s lips, had no means of comparing his account with that of the Apostles who still held to Jesus’ teaching. Paul’s version was the only one to which they had access.

Paul was developing a new religion under the doctrines he was fabricating

[Predator]

And you think that's a lot of people? Compared to other diseases, such as the black death, it is actually the disease equivalent of a worm.

Equilvalent of a blue whale, the last one killed 40 million

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-21314262/

Do you eat chicken? Let's use wiki as a source like you did:
Therefore, if you choose not to eat pigs because they are unhealthy, by the same standards you should not eat chicken, as they are equally unhealthy.

70-450 diseases are caused by pigs .what do you mean by unhealthy ,do the chickens eat anything faeces , filth and other dirt and thus defile themselves.Chickens can be bred in a clean enviroment , unlike Pigs which eats anything including their dead ones and poorly processes the food.
Bird flu has never killed or infected anywhere near what swine flu and other pig related diseases have killed

You realise just how rare these diseases can be?

which is why its do deadly and contagious whenever an outbreak occurs .

Just as I suspected. An Islamic preacher using arguments against pigs without any scientific sources to back up his claims? How surprising!

Not suprising , considering the fact that its mostly the st highepork consumer countries that usually sell wives and daughters to the screen and enjoy watching it and proud of what their wives achieve

I could give up pork tomorrow if I believe it'd benefit me in any way, so I am therefore not an addict.

Yeah but you give r advice that abstaining from pork and honoring God is unnecessary when it infact is necessary.

That verse is from the Hadith, hence it means nothing to me or what I believe Jesus will do.

Did Jesus ever teach against pork? I don't think so.

The Gospels imply that eating pork is forbidden, since Jesus never ate pork and murdered over 2,000 pigs by drowning them in the sea, .He destroyed the livelihood of those people who reared pigs thus punishing them for breaking God's laws .


And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:32, Mark 5:13)

He will thus finish what he started in his second coming by punishing people for breaking the Law.

[Supreme]

In the example of James the Just, Supreme said (in response to the Biblical quotes regarding the prohibition of pork) that, "To be a Christian, it was established by James the Just thousands of years ago that one does not have to become Jewish first, thus we do not have to follow Jewish law."

That is quite a major statement to make. So did James the Just say that and that his been followed even though Jesus (peace be upon him) never said it, or, did Jesus (peace be upon him) actually say it and it has just been paraphrased by James the Just?

OK. I understand that scholars command a great respect in Islam. They sometimes make things 'haram' or 'halal', such as music or clothing or technology that can't be found anywhere in the Hadith or Quran. Well, think of the early church leaders as a the Christian equivalent to these scholars.

Not suprising , considering the fact that its mostly the st highepork consumer countries that usually sell wives and daughters to the screen and enjoy watching it and proud of what their wives achieve

I'm not sure what such a comment has in relation to the discussion.

Yeah but you give r advice that abstaining from pork and honoring God is unnecessary when it infact is necessary.

Etc, etc. Stop repeating the same arguments. I've already justified my reasons for eating pork, so far you've only managed to post a wiki article illustrating some very rare diseases that pork may bring and a link to an Islamic website that tries to correlate, amongst all completely unrelated things, the sex lives and pork consumption in the West. I choose to eat pork. Get over it. You don't have to eat pork, you don't even have to understand my reasons for eating it. You merely have to respect it.

[Darth Ultor]

Question about the halal laws: do you also not mix dairy with meat?

And are shellfish also haraam?

[Grace Seeker]

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

And, in Jesus Christ, it has been fulfilled. So, no problem.

In other words there is no heaven for you unless you are better than the Jew and you cant be better than the jews by not keeping the Laws and the commandment the first of which is broken by the trinity

No, that is not what it means. You're simply spouting your own dogma and not actually interpreting what it is that Jesus said -- or for that matter any other person in the scriptures either.

[Grace Seeker]

Peace, Grace Seeker,

What I don't get (and this could be my own lack of knowledge) is that when Christians are asked about something that the Bible clearly states but Christians don't follow, the answer is sometimes that, "this doesn't need to be followed by Christians".

If people say "but it's in the Bible", the answer from Christians is normally:
"Ah...but James the Just said....", OR
"Ah...but Paul said...." , OR
"Ah...but so and so said..."

To an outsider it seems that Christians use other people's names to justify not following what's in the Bible. That then makes you wonder why the faith is called Christianity if other people's opinions other than Jesus (peace be upon him) are given so much weight, even if what they've said goes against what is clearly stated in the Bible.

In the example of James the Just, Supreme said (in response to the Biblical quotes regarding the prohibition of pork) that, "To be a Christian, it was established by James the Just thousands of years ago that one does not have to become Jewish first, thus we do not have to follow Jewish law."

That is quite a major statement to make. So did James the Just say that and that his been followed even though Jesus (peace be upon him) never said it, or, did Jesus (peace be upon him) actually say it and it has just been paraphrased by James the Just?

Peace.

Some good questions. What you have to understand is that the statement made by James is also a quote taken from the Bible. It was made as part of a larger discussion that was being held in the church with regard to the question of whether or not Gentiles had to become and practice the religious laws of the Jews in order to be accepted within the community of faith that would become known as "Christians". Today we call it the Council of Jerusalem and it is reported in Acts 15:

Acts 15

1Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers [i.e., those who were followers of Jesus]: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." 2This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders [i.e. the leaders of the Church] about this question. 3The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the brothers very glad. 4When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." [Thus is introduced the question that Paul and Barnabas have gone to Jerusalem to get answered.]

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." [In other words, Peter sees no reason to ask of these new Gentile believers that they be required to conform to Jewish law.]

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them.

13When they finished, James [aka, James the Just, James the brother of Jesus] spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon [aka, Peter] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
18that have been known for ages.

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit [notice, this is not just the opinion of James or the apostles, but of the Holy Spirit, which Christians believe to be the directing force of God in our lives] and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

30The men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the brothers. 33After spending some time there, they were sent off by the brothers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. 35But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

More of Peter's own experiences are found previous to this in Acts 10:

Acts 10

1At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. 2He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. 3One day at about three in the afternoon he had a vision. He distinctly saw an angel of God, who came to him and said, "Cornelius!"
4Cornelius stared at him in fear. "What is it, Lord?" he asked.

The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter. 6He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea."

7When the angel who spoke to him had gone, Cornelius called two of his servants and a devout soldier who was one of his attendants. 8He told them everything that had happened and sent them to Joppa.

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them."

21Peter went down and said to the men, "I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come?"

22The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say." 23Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?"

30Cornelius answered: "Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31and said, 'Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.' 33So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us."

34Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. 36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

This story has many elements to it:
First, Peter is given a vision in which God tells him to eat (in the vision at least) that which he has always understood to be unclean.
Second, Peter understands this to mean that he is to no longer be concerned about (at least some of) the ceremonial laws the governed Jewish behavior, especially their relationships with non-Jews. And so, though it was against Jewish law, Peter invites Gentiles into his house and goes into theirs and they treat each other as guests -- meaning they would have had to have eaten together, another thing against Jewish law. So, on God's expressed order, Peter is doing things that would be considered in violation of Jewish law.

Now, before someone accuses God of abrogating his own law, I don't believe he did. God called the nation of Israel to be a light to the Gentiles. The whole purpose from the time of Abraham onward, was to get God's message to the whole world. The Jews, by not being faithful to God were not the light that they were called to be and God had to complete this work (i.e., bring it to fulfillment) in the person of Jesus Christ. Because of what Jesus did, all people, Jew and Gentile, men and women, adult and child, slave and free, now have equal access to God. And further, they have this access quite apart from the law, but on the basis that Abraham was granted it, namely faith in God.

So, you see, we are not using other people's names to NOT follow what is in the Bible, rather we are indeed observing what God's purposes are and seeing that they are fulfilled in Jesus and that God has accomplished in Jesus his great purpose of reconciling the world to himself, understand that the other regulations that were designed for one small subset of God's people, the Jews, are not applicable across the board to all whom God has called to himself. For, these that God has called to himself come by the same token that Abraham did, by faith, before the law was given.

To put the burden of the Jewish law on a person now would be a step backwards and to ask an individual to make himself "righteous" in God's sight. But that is an impossible task. None of us can make ourselves righteous in God's sight. God, himself, however, can declare righteous whoever he so chooses to so declare. And God has indeed done this with regard to all who, like Abraham, believe in God's mercy and grace and his great promises. Just as God promised to Abraham that he would make him the father of many nations, so he has now done so through the son of Abraham, the son of Israel, Jesus, in whom now all peoples of every nation can be made right with God not through their own works, but his work on the cross and their individual faith in him.

And this is why it is called Christianity. Because it is not about what we do, but what Christ has done. The mistake so many people make I think is that they focus on Jesus' teaching ministry. It was important, but the work of Christ that is the essential Gospel is not what he said, but what he did, and now I mean specifically the two-fold (but theologically singular) event of Jesus' death and resurrection.

It is also a mistake to suppose that believing all the things that Jesus said or copying all the things that Jesus did in his earthly ministry would make a person a Christian. At best, such Jewish behavior would make a person a Jew, perhaps a most excellent Jew, but still a Jews and under the old covenant. We are Christians because we have been baptized into a unique relationship with Christ, just as Christ himself command of us. And this new covenant is one based on faith and trust in Christ being able to reconcile us to God the Father. We see in Jesus' resurrection God's promise for all his people --i.e., those who believe (not those who mimick) Jesus.

So, our identity as belonging to God is not marked by the Torah or works of the law (even that law which we know Jesus himself kept inviolate), but by faith in the God who makes promise to redeem us in and through the work (not words) of Jesus Christ. We follow him in submitting our lives to him as Lord. Thus, were he to ever tell us to eat this and not that, we would do exactly that. But the fact is that rather than telling us to join with those who were doing so, he told us the opposite, that it is no longer necessary, for that covenant of which those practices and rules were a sign has been fulfilled and the practice of the rules associated with it are no longer a necessary sign. And those pastors like Joel Osteen who still preach the rules are just like the Judaizers that Peter, James, Paul, and Barnabas said were in the wrong back in Acts 15. That law has been rescinded by God himself, not because he abrogated it, but because Jesus fulfilled all its demands and it thus makes no more demands on anyone.

For us it isn't then about a single sentence spoken by James or Paul, or even a single line by Jesus. We read scripture and see in it a massive and powerful story whose climax is the coming into the world of the unique Son of the one true Creator God, and, above all, his death for sins and bodily resurrection from the dead. All Christian believing, hoping, praying, and living take place in that light. But the story of which Jesus Christ is the focal point is the story of God's whole creation, focused then on Abraham and his family and their story as the strange promise-bearing people; and it is also the story, as yet unfinished, of what Jesus Christ continues to do and teach by the gift of his Holy Spirit, in advance of the day when what God did for Jesus at Easter he will do not only for all his people but for the whole creation.*



*credit for the last paragraph goes to N.T. Wright, Justification, p. 250

[aadil77]

Question about the halal laws: do you also not mix dairy with meat?

you can if you want as long as its halal meat lol

[aadil77]

And are shellfish also haraam?

all sea creatures are halal

"To hunt and to eat the fish of the sea is made lawful for you." In surah 16, verse 14, "And He it is who has constrained the sea to be of service that you eat fresh meat from thence."

[Italianguy]

all sea creatures are halal

"To hunt and to eat the fish of the sea is made lawful for you." In surah 16, verse 14, "And He it is who has constrained the sea to be of service that you eat fresh meat from thence."

I love seafood:statisfie...sometimes...too much+o(

[Darth Ultor]

Seafood is the best. Expensive as hell though.

[Italianguy]

Seafood is the best. Expensive as hell though.

Dude, thats the truth! It's like $30 for a seafood platter now:heated:

And all you get is Cod fish(resturaunts LIE for flounder) and tiny shrimp and some other stuff....such a rip off! I told one resturaunt that it wasn't a seafood platter, it was a Krill platter!;D and their version of lobster is more like Crayfish(crawdads).

[Uthman]

Fascinating! But let's get back on topic. :)

[Italianguy]

Fascinating! But let's get back on topic. :)

ok, sorryimsad

[Predator]

ok, sorryimsad

DON"T EAT PORK CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Plus.....it just tastes bad+o(

Nah its not like that, Its more like :

Do what Lord tells you , dont eat pork or touch pigs and do as your Savior Jesus did as he set an example for you to follow , by not eating pork and by even killing 2000 pigs which were being reared by the people who disobeyed the Lord
Thus Safeguard yourself from deadly diseases such as swineflu etc and most importantly Honor thy Lord .

[Supreme]

Some good questions. What you have to understand is that the statement made by James is also a quote taken from the Bible. It was made as part of a larger discussion that was being held in the church with regard to the question of whether or not Gentiles had to become and practice the religious laws of the Jews in order to be accepted within the community of faith that would become known as "Christians". Today we call it the Council of Jerusalem and it is reported in Acts 15:


More of Peter's own experiences are found previous to this in Acts 10:

This story has many elements to it:
First, Peter is given a vision in which God tells him to eat (in the vision at least) that which he has always understood to be unclean.
Second, Peter understands this to mean that he is to no longer be concerned about (at least some of) the ceremonial laws the governed Jewish behavior, especially their relationships with non-Jews. And so, though it was against Jewish law, Peter invites Gentiles into his house and goes into theirs and they treat each other as guests -- meaning they would have had to have eaten together, another thing against Jewish law. So, on God's expressed order, Peter is doing things that would be considered in violation of Jewish law.

Now, before someone accuses God of abrogating his own law, I don't believe he did. God called the nation of Israel to be a light to the Gentiles. The whole purpose from the time of Abraham onward, was to get God's message to the whole world. The Jews, by not being faithful to God were not the light that they were called to be and God had to complete this work (i.e., bring it to fulfillment) in the person of Jesus Christ. Because of what Jesus did, all people, Jew and Gentile, men and women, adult and child, slave and free, now have equal access to God. And further, they have this access quite apart from the law, but on the basis that Abraham was granted it, namely faith in God.

So, you see, we are not using other people's names to NOT follow what is in the Bible, rather we are indeed observing what God's purposes are and seeing that they are fulfilled in Jesus and that God has accomplished in Jesus his great purpose of reconciling the world to himself, understand that the other regulations that were designed for one small subset of God's people, the Jews, are not applicable across the board to all whom God has called to himself. For, these that God has called to himself come by the same token that Abraham did, by faith, before the law was given.

To put the burden of the Jewish law on a person now would be a step backwards and to ask an individual to make himself "righteous" in God's sight. But that is an impossible task. None of us can make ourselves righteous in God's sight. God, himself, however, can declare righteous whoever he so chooses to so declare. And God has indeed done this with regard to all who, like Abraham, believe in God's mercy and grace and his great promises. Just as God promised to Abraham that he would make him the father of many nations, so he has now done so through the son of Abraham, the son of Israel, Jesus, in whom now all peoples of every nation can be made right with God not through their own works, but his work on the cross and their individual faith in him.

And this is why it is called Christianity. Because it is not about what we do, but what Christ has done. The mistake so many people make I think is that they focus on Jesus' teaching ministry. It was important, but the work of Christ that is the essential Gospel is not what he said, but what he did, and now I mean specifically the two-fold (but theologically singular) event of Jesus' death and resurrection.

It is also a mistake to suppose that believing all the things that Jesus said or copying all the things that Jesus did in his earthly ministry would make a person a Christian. At best, such Jewish behavior would make a person a Jew, perhaps a most excellent Jew, but still a Jews and under the old covenant. We are Christians because we have been baptized into a unique relationship with Christ, just as Christ himself command of us. And this new covenant is one based on faith and trust in Christ being able to reconcile us to God the Father. We see in Jesus' resurrection God's promise for all his people --i.e., those who believe (not those who mimick) Jesus.

So, our identity as belonging to God is not marked by the Torah or works of the law (even that law which we know Jesus himself kept inviolate), but by faith in the God who makes promise to redeem us in and through the work (not words) of Jesus Christ. We follow him in submitting our lives to him as Lord. Thus, were he to ever tell us to eat this and not that, we would do exactly that. But the fact is that rather than telling us to join with those who were doing so, he told us the opposite, that it is no longer necessary, for that covenant of which those practices and rules were a sign has been fulfilled and the practice of the rules associated with it are no longer a necessary sign. And those pastors like Joel Osteen who still preach the rules are just like the Judaizers that Peter, James, Paul, and Barnabas said were in the wrong back in Acts 15. That law has been rescinded by God himself, not because he abrogated it, but because Jesus fulfilled all its demands and it thus makes no more demands on anyone.

For us it isn't then about a single sentence spoken by James or Paul, or even a single line by Jesus. We read scripture and see in it a massive and powerful story whose climax is the coming into the world of the unique Son of the one true Creator God, and, above all, his death for sins and bodily resurrection from the dead. All Christian believing, hoping, praying, and living take place in that light. But the story of which Jesus Christ is the focal point is the story of God's whole creation, focused then on Abraham and his family and their story as the strange promise-bearing people; and it is also the story, as yet unfinished, of what Jesus Christ continues to do and teach by the gift of his Holy Spirit, in advance of the day when what God did for Jesus at Easter he will do not only for all his people but for the whole creation.*



*credit for the last paragraph goes to N.T. Wright, Justification, p. 250

Fantastic post Grace Seeker, I think that should just about clear things up in this regard.

[Grace Seeker]

Fantastic post Grace Seeker, I think that should just about clear things up in this regard.

Not a chance. The argument for not eating pork in this thread is just a read herring for, "You Christians are sinners and going to hell because you don't practice Islam."

If Muslims really thought that we should not eat pork for the "supposed" reasons that:

1) Pigs carry diseases, then as you pointed out they would also be against us eating chicken and other animals that carry diseases. But they aren't.

2) It is against the Old Covenant, then as Boaz pointed out they would also queastion our eating of shrimp and shellfish which are also excluded along with pork. But they don't.

3) The Old Covenant is applicable for non-Jews, then they would hold that it is applicable not just to Christians, but also to Muslims. But they don't.

4) That Jesus didn't do it and we who follow Jesus should do all things as he did, then they would insist that Christians worship at the site of the temple in Jerusalem and that we not utilize modern conveniences. But they don't.

They only criticize us for not doing things that are also a part of their own faith. In other words, they want us to be Muslims. Which, if you think about it, is a very loving thing for them to do. But, even with that motivation behind them, their arguments with regard to the reasons that Christians shuold not eat pork are still disingenious for they don't follow them through consistently once they get beyond those aspects which are a part of their own religious value system.

[Woodrow]

An error we keep making is we keep trying to come up with human reasons why pork is haram. In doing so we often cite things that are not true and by doing so we belittle what Allaah(swt) has ordained.

We do not need a human explanation as to why pork is haram. It makes no difference if it is the most unhealthy of foods or if it is the most healthy of foods. Either way we should not eat it. Remember the proofs we offer are based on "Science" not on love of Allaah(swt), The same science can be used to show pork is healthy and beneficial. Our arguments are not convincing to those who have extensive knowledge of farming, biology or nutrition.

We only need one reason for not eating it, and that is because we were told not to. We have no need to justify why he has ordained so and we have no need to attempt to explain Allaah(swt)'s reason. Allaah(swt) has forbidden us pork, that should be enough said, we need not know any more. It is a law and that should be end of discussion, enough said, fini, waloo.

Now to get back to the topic of Christians now giving up pork. Let us help encourage them to do so, not because we may think pork is harmful but because to do so, is to obey and love Allaah(swt). Explain to them we are pleased with their desire to obey Allaah(swt) and by obeying Allaah(swt) the closer they get to reaching Jannah.

[Grace Seeker]

An error we keep making is we keep trying to come up with human reasons why pork is haram. In doing so we often cite things that are not true and by doing so we belittle what Allaah(swt) has ordained.

We do not need a human explanation as to why pork is haram. It makes no difference if it is the most unhealthy of foods or if it is the most healthy of foods. Either way we should not eat it. Remember the proofs we offer are based on "Science" not on love of Allaah(swt), The same science can be used to show pork is healthy and beneficial. Our arguments are not convincing to those who have extensive knowledge of farming, biology or nutrition.

We only need one reason for not eating it, and that is because we were told not to. We have no need to justify why he has ordained so and we have no need to attempt to explain Allaah(swt)'s reason. Allaah(swt) has forbidden us pork, that should be enough said, we need not know any more. It is a law and that should be end of discussion, enough said, fini, waloo.

Now to get back to the topic of Christians now giving up pork. Let us help encourage them to do so, not because we may think pork is harmful but because to do so, is to obey and love Allaah(swt). Explain to them we are pleased with their desire to obey Allaah(swt) and by obeying Allaah(swt) the closer they get to reaching Jannah.

There you go. A much more genuine argument for why Muslims should say to Christians to give up pork. Of course, I don't recognize that it is indeed the command of God for Christians; but, if I did, then I would have had my last ham sandwich.

[Supreme]

Not a chance. The argument for not eating pork in this thread is just a read herring for, "You Christians are sinners and going to hell because you don't practice Islam."

If Muslims really thought that we should not eat pork for the "supposed" reasons that:

1) Pigs carry diseases, then as you pointed out they would also be against us eating chicken and other animals that carry diseases. But they aren't.

2) It is against the Old Covenant, then as Boaz pointed out they would also queastion our eating of shrimp and shellfish which are also excluded along with pork. But they don't.

3) The Old Covenant is applicable for non-Jews, then they would hold that it is applicable not just to Christians, but also to Muslims. But they don't.

4) That Jesus didn't do it and we who follow Jesus should do all things as he did, then they would insist that Christians worship at the site of the temple in Jerusalem and that we not utilize modern conveniences. But they don't.

They only criticize us for not doing things that are also a part of their own faith. In other words, they want us to be Muslims. Which, if you think about it, is a very loving thing for them to do. But, even with that motivation behind them, their arguments with regard to the reasons that Christians shuold not eat pork are still disingenious for they don't follow them through consistently once they get beyond those aspects which are a part of their own religious value system.

Indeed. I suppose those arguments are very hypocritical when you put them into context.

Of course, I don't recognize that it is indeed the command of God for Christians; but, if I did, then I would have had my last ham sandwich.

Indeed. If I thought for one second that by not eating pork would bring me benefits or for some reason bring me closer to God, then I would assuredly do it. However, I have not yet been convinced of any such prohibition that is applicable to Gentiles.

[Insaanah]

OK. I understand that scholars command a great respect in Islam. They sometimes make things 'haram' or 'halal', such as music or clothing or technology that can't be found anywhere in the Hadith or Quran. Well, think of the early church leaders as a the Christian equivalent to these scholars.

Any scholar that made something halaal that was clearly declared haraam in the Qur'an, or vice versa, would be considered outside of the fold of Islam. The scholars you are referring to above, have not done that.


Grace Seeker, thank you for your detailed response, and explanatory parts in red. They made very interesting reading for me. What I understand from it, in response to my query, is that what James the Just said is in the Bible, but it is not something that Jesus (peace be upon him) said.

These were the thoughts that occurred to me as I was reading:

In this passage human beings other than Jesus (peace be upon him - I assume he had departed this earth by that time) were making changes to how the faith was at that point e.g. where Peter sees no reason to ask of the Gentiles that they should obey Jewish law.

I presume the original statement in Leviticus was made by either God or Moses (peace be upon him)?

Is it known how long after Jesus's departure the Bible that we have today, continued to be written by human beings?

Also, it seems, a major change on a point of religion could be made on the basis of a vision. It seems as though a human being can have a vision, and this vision can overrule both God and Messenger of God, or it could at that time at least. Although it may be argued that the vision was from God because the Lord spoke in it, God only knows whether the vision really was from Him or not. And, were God to make such a decision, should He not have made that change through Christ (peace be upon him)?

rather we are indeed observing what God's purposes are and seeing that they are fulfilled in Jesus and that God has accomplished in Jesus his great purpose of reconciling the world to himself.

Does this then mean, that it was only once Jesus (peace be upon him) had departed from this world, that any changes that needed to be made to the faith, such as making pork no longer prohibited, could be made? Otherwise, it seems that (God forbid) God then took Christ (peace be upon him) prematurely, before finishing giving all His laws that He wanted put in place, and thus had to give them afterwards through people like Peter in visions.

he told us the opposite, that it is no longer necessary, for that covenant of which those practices and rules were a sign has been fulfilled and the practice of the rules associated with it are no longer a necessary sign.

Are there any quotes from Jesus (peace be upon him) in the Bible regarding this?

In the letter sent with Paul and Barnabas they said: "It seemed good to the Holy spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements...."

Firstly, how did they know it seemed good to the Holy Spirit? If I'm correct, in Christianity, the Holy Spirit is also part of God?

Secondly, the early Christians appeared to be very eager to make the new faith easy to follow, so much so that they even made changes so that a lot of the original requirements went, and hence the faith gradually changed from it's original form (meaning as it was at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him).

Following on from that, do you see Christianity as a continuously evolving and changing religion. Eg if society deems that to be homosexual is acceptable, do you think the teachings of Christianity should be changed to reflect this, and thus such "unions" should be blessed, and such a way of life should be accepted for priests etc? Or, is it the case that the changes that were going to be made have already been made, and the faith will now stay how it is? I have only mentioned homosexuality as an example, what I mean is will the rulings of Christianity change further for whatever reason, eg to fit in with the times?

I don't need answers to what I have merely stated as thoughts that occurred to me while I was reading, as I know we will disagree on them, looking at them from different religious perspectives. Any of the actual questions that you might be able to answer would be appreciated, however. I know I am asking a lot of questions, but I am really interested in this, and this is my first real chance to ask questions such as these.

Peace

[Predator]

You are what you eat" - Native American proverb

In folklore terms, eating the meat of the pig is said to contribute to lack of morality and shame, plus greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony. We insult a person by calling him or her a "Pig" when they demonstrate these characteristics.


The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8

Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste of pig-meat. Many excuses have been given, but none are very sound

[Grace Seeker]

You are what you eat" - Native American proverb

In folklore terms, eating the meat of the pig is said to contribute to lack of morality and shame, plus greed for wealth, laziness, indulgence, dirtiness and gluttony. We insult a person by calling him or her a "Pig" when they demonstrate these characteristics.


The Jews and Christians are also forbidden from eating pork. Here is a quote from the Old Testament to that effect: "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase." Deuteronomy 14:8

Many Christians believe that this verse was directed only at the Jews. But Jesus himself says during the Sermon on the Mount; "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Some Christians say that, after a vision by St. Peter, God cleansed all animals and made them fit and lawful for human consumption. If ALL animals are cleansed by Peter's vision, this includes dogs, cats, vultures, and rats: but you just don't see people getting excited about a cat-meat sandwich like they do over barbecued pork or bacon. Others say that it was Paul who rescinded the law forbidding pork to humans, in order to appease the Romans, who enjoyed the taste of pig-meat. Many excuses have been given, but none are very sound

Airforce, you should ask Woodrow about the bet he was smart enough not to make with me.

Beyond that, do you believe that this verse is the true word of God? If it is true, is it not also directed at Muslims? Consider what other food is also forbidden in that same passage:
"you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney" (Deuteronomy 14:7)
"anything [living in the water] that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean." (Deuteronomy 14:10) This would exclude shrimp, lobster, crab, crawfish, oysters, scallops, mussels, octopus, squid (i.e., calmari), eels, shark, sturgeon, swordfish, catfish,


Then you need to notice a couple of other things about the passage as to why it does not apply to most Christians. The command is written for a specific group of people, not all people. And those people are:

Deuteronomy 14

1 You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2 for you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the LORD has chosen you to be his treasured possession.

Now, out of all the peoples of the earth, do you believe that God chose Gentile Christians to be his treasured possession? That would be the only reason for this passage regarding eating pork (and all the rest) would apply to us. But if you think that this is the word of God for those who follow Islam, then it would apply to you. Not just the not eating of pork, but all of these other things as well.

So, if you believe that this passage is really applicable, I expect to see you arguing against the eating of crustaceans and shellfish as much as you do pork. If you don't, then you are being, as I already said, disingenious in your criticism. But, as for us non-Jews, here is what the passage also has to say:

You may give it to an alien living in any of your towns, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. But you are a people holy to the LORD your God. (Deuteronomy 14:21)

As far as Jews are concerned, us gentile Christians are indeed aliens and foreigners. And by the same word that prohibits Jews from eating this food, we non-Jews may eat it.


But, Airforce, I don't expect you to listen, because you don't really care what the Bible says or how it is to be applied. You only want us to conform to the rules and regulations that you do as a Muslim. You'll argue your point against all hermenuetical rules of interpreation and even just plain common sense. As such, you have gone from one who once had something to say to just a small shrill voice that repeats the same nonsense over and over without any thought or meaning.

When Muslims consider the passage you cited authoritative enough to quit eating shrimp, I'll listen. Until then, Airforce, you are just making noise and continuing to prove you don't know a thing about biblical interpretation.

[جوري]

Why do we care so much what the christians do? there is so much to fix in the religion, I hardly think that once they stop their pig eating all will be honk dory .. I think the part about worshiping a man is far worst in my opinion ..
either way.
layes ba3d alkufr zhanb!

:w:

[Supreme]

Airforce, you should ask Woodrow about the bet he was smart enough not to make with me.

Beyond that, do you believe that this verse is the true word of God? If it is true, is it not also directed at Muslims? Consider what other food is also forbidden in that same passage:
"you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the coney" (Deuteronomy 14:7)
"anything [living in the water] that does not have fins and scales you may not eat; for you it is unclean." (Deuteronomy 14:10) This would exclude shrimp, lobster, crab, crawfish, oysters, scallops, mussels, octopus, squid (i.e., calmari), eels, shark, sturgeon, swordfish, catfish,


Then you need to notice a couple of other things about the passage as to why it does not apply to most Christians. The command is written for a specific group of people, not all people. And those people are: Now, out of all the peoples of the earth, do you believe that God chose Gentile Christians to be his treasured possession? That would be the only reason for this passage regarding eating pork (and all the rest) would apply to us. But if you think that this is the word of God for those who follow Islam, then it would apply to you. Not just the not eating of pork, but all of these other things as well.

So, if you believe that this passage is really applicable, I expect to see you arguing against the eating of crustaceans and shellfish as much as you do pork. If you don't, then you are being, as I already said, disingenious in your criticism. But, as for us non-Jews, here is what the passage also has to say: As far as Jews are concerned, us gentile Christians are indeed aliens and foreigners. And by the same word that prohibits Jews from eating this food, we non-Jews may eat it.


But, Airforce, I don't expect you to listen, because you don't really care what the Bible says or how it is to be applied. You only want us to conform to the rules and regulations that you do as a Muslim. You'll argue your point against all hermenuetical rules of interpreation and even just plain common sense. As such, you have gone from one who once had something to say to just a small shrill voice that repeats the same nonsense over and over without any thought or meaning.

When Muslims consider the passage you cited authoritative enough to quit eating shrimp, I'll listen. Until then, Airforce, you are just making noise and continuing to prove you don't know a thing about biblical interpretation.

Grace Seeker, do you ever get tired of repeating yourself? You and I have both explained numerous times to Airforce adn given our perfectly valid (and dare I say intellectually superior) arguments as to why we eat pork, but I suppose credit has to be given to Jesus for predicting such an event:

10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
" 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

(Mark 4:10-12)

[Asian man]

you Christians are making yourselves look like true hypocrites
because u don't do what Jesus told.

[titus]

you Christians are making yourselves look like true hypocrites
because u don't do what Jesus told.

I don't recall Jesus ever in the Bible saying not to eat pork.

This thread reminds me of a Muslim I was talking to once that was explaining how he doesn't eat pork and how bad it was for you, how his religion helped to keep him clean and healthy.

This was right before he went to smoke a cigarette.

[Italianguy]

I don't recall Jesus ever in the Bible saying not to eat pork.

This thread reminds me of a Muslim I was talking to once that was explaining how he doesn't eat pork and how bad it was for you, how his religion helped to keep him clean and healthy.

This was right before he went to smoke a cigarette.

Jesus never said not to eat pork. It is an Old Testament law.

[titus]

I know. I was replying to Asian man who implied that he did.

Old Testament law (and Joel Osteen) also said not to eat shellfish. It also said how to properly sacrifice animals and not to mix wool and linen. I can't wait for Osteen to sacrifice an animal on his next broadcast.

[Predator]

Jesus never said not to eat pork. It is an Old Testament law.

He never said you can eat pork either and He even destoyed 2000 pigs
God has one law for all human being and does not have one set of rules for one people and God's law never change.
That would be an unjust God if he judges people differently


And what makes you think the new testament is right when filled with satanic stuff like

(a) "Alcohol is for people who are DYING, for those who are in
MISERY. Let them drink and FORGET their poverty and
unhappiness." (From the "Good News Bible in Today's English") PROVERBS 31:6-
7
Alcohol recommended in preference to water!
(b) "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomachs
sake and thine often infirmities." 1 TIMOTHY 5:23

This thread reminds me of a Muslim I was talking to once that was explaining how he doesn't eat pork and how bad it was for you, how his religion helped to keep him clean and healthy.

This was right before he went to smoke a cigarette.

And this reminds me of scores of christian hypocrite reverends and evangelists who preached about having one wife and then go to prostitutes themselves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teJrN...eature=related

Dont judge islam by muslims , judge by what the religious book preaches , as much as you have bad christians ,we have bad muslims

[titus]

God has one law for all human being and does not have one set of rules for one people and God's law never change.

Who said anything changed?

A Christian can argue that the Old Testament laws were for the kingdom of Israel, much the same way that many Muslims argue that certain laws only apply under a true Islamic state.

Dont judge islam by muslims , judge by what the religious book preaches , as much as you have bad christians ,we have bad muslims

First, I am not a Christian.

Second I think you misunderstood my point (mainly because I didn't make myself clear). I have issue with people of any religion trying to justify reasons why there religion tells them to do something when I feel they should simply say "my religion tells me to do it so I do it".

Instead, people try to "prove" that their religion is better because of their rules, and in some cases look down on others for not believing or acting the same way. Eating pork is simply a great example.

Any Muslim (or Jew for that matter) that would say that God made these laws to make them healthier and cleaner, then why would they eat other bad things and do other acts that are much more harmful to their health than eating pork? If people want to ascribe motives to God's laws then shouldn't they put those motives into practice in everything they do? Yet how many Muslims or Jews don't eat pork yet smoke, don't exercise, speed, eat other foods that are bad for them and countless other things that are much more harmful to their health than eating pork?

I find the arguments as to 'why' god made these laws silly and flawed, especially when people don't apply these arguments to anything else in their lives if their holy book did not specifically forbid or allow it.


Why not simply say "the Quran says not to eat pork so I don't eat pork" instead of making specious arguments about God's motives in doing so.

[Predator]

A Christian can argue that the Old Testament laws were for the kingdom of Israel, much the same way that many Muslims argue that certain laws only apply under a true Islamic state.

God laws are meant for all human beings .Gods laws will not change as that will only make him to lose credibility.
Could you be a bit more specific about what you meant by "certain laws " ?

Why not simply say "the Quran says not to eat pork so I don't eat pork" instead of making specious arguments about God's motives in doing so.

SWINE FLU IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY ALLAH HAS MADE EATING PORK UNLAWFUL
Pork is one of the foods that Allah makes unlawful in the Qur’an. A true Muslim will demonstrate determination in abiding by Allah’s commands and prohibition even if he is unaware of the wisdom behind them. But if Allah so wills He can also show us the wisdom behind the things He has prohibited. The recent rapid rise in cases of swine flu, a lethal disease, is one of the reasons why the eating of pork is unlawful.

Swine flu is a disease caused by the virus “H1N1” and can be passed from person to person through the air. Like the flu virus in human beings, the swine flu virus constantly changes in pigs. Pigs’ respiratory passages contain receptors that are sensitive to viruses such as swine, human and bird flu. For that reason, pigs increase the possibility of new viruses emerging in the event they are transmitted simultaneously. The A/H1N1 virus, a combination of human, swine and bird flu viruses, only appears in the receptors in pigs’ respiratory passages; in other words, pigs serve as hosts for viruses to combine together in. Because human beings have no natural immunity to the virus and since it spreads very fast, the World Health Organization has warned that the disease is about to spread out of control as an epidemic.


One of the most frightening aspects of the disease is that it is the same as the “Spanish Flu” that led to the deaths of more than 50 million people between September 1918 and June 1920. It is the AH1N1 virus that causes the disease in both cases. Spanish flu was also first transmitted to human beings from pigs in America, from where it spread across the world, becoming one of the worst epidemics in history. Therefore, in the event that swine flu cannot be brought under control, there is a danger that it will spread all over the world.

Prophet Jesus will come as a just judge… he will slay the pig and distribute goods and possessions, but because of their abundance nobody will accept them.

This hadith suggests that there will have to be a mass slaughter of pigs in the time of Prophet Jesus Indeed, states may have to resort to the mass slaughter of pigs in order to prevent the spread of swine flu if it becomes an epidemic threatening the whole world. Egypt has in fact already begun slaughtering pigs in order to protect itself against the disease. The hadith of our Prophet (saas) state that it will be essential to slaughter pigs, the source of swine flu, in the same way the authorities dry up the swamps that constitute the breeding grounds of mosquitoes, which also constantly spread disease.



As has already been stated, pigs’ respiratory passages play the main role in the emergence of this dangerous disease. That is just one of the reasons behind Allah’s prohibiting the consumption of pork. There are many other pieces of wisdom behind Allah’s making the consumption of pork unlawful. Some of these may be set out as follows:

Pork contains high levels of sulfur

Since pork contains high levels of sulfur, when it is eaten a large amount of sulfur is absorbed by the body. Excessive amounts may lead to various diseases, such as joint infections when it accumulates in cartilage, muscle and nerves, calcification and hernia. In the event of regular pork consumption, soft connective tissue from the pig replaces the hard cartilage in the body. As a result, the cartilage becomes unable to bear the weight of the body, which in turn leads to joint deficiencies.


Pork contains excessive amounts of growth hormone

Excessive amounts of growth hormone ingested through pork leads to tissue swelling and deformations. It can lead to sudden and extreme fat accumulation. People who eat pork generally have a higher risk of obesity. It may lead to abnormal growth of the nose, jaw, hand and feet bones. The most dangerous aspect of excessive growth hormone is that is prepares the way for cancer.


Eating pork leads to skin diseases

Substances known as “histamine” and “imtidazole” in pork cause excessive itching. They also prepare the way for infectious skin diseases such as eczema, dermatitis and neurodermatitis. These substances also increase the risk of boils, appendicitis, gall bladder diseases and arterial infections. Doctors therefore advise heart patients to avoid eating pork.

Eating pork spreads trichina

Trichina worms ingested through pork enter the blood stream through the stomach and intestines and spread throughout the body. Trichina worms particularly settle in muscle tissue in the jaw, tongue, neck, throat and chest regions. They lead to paralysis of the chewing, speech and swallowing muscles. They also cause vein obstructions, meningitis and brain infections. Severe cases may even end in death. The most dangerous aspect of the disease is that there is no cure for it. Trichina outbreaks have been observed from time to time in Sweden, Britain and Poland, despite tight veterinary controls.

Pork is very fatty and contains poisonous substances

Pork is very fatty. When ingested, the fat enters the blood stream and leads to hardening of the arteries, raised blood pressure and coronary infarct. In addition, pork contains a toxin called “Sutoxin.” The lymph glands have to work extra hard in order to expel these toxins from the body. This manifests as swelling of the lymph glands, especially in children. If the disease progresses, all the lymph glands swell up, temperature rises and pain begins.

These are just a few aspects of the wisdom behind Allah’s making the eating of pork unlawful. Allah is also showing us the wisdom of this prohibition by creating swine flu in the End Times. For a sincere believer, even not knowing why Allah has prohibited anything, his main responsibility is to maintain the bounds set by Him. But with the epidemic over recent days Allah is telling believers of yet another element of that wisdom.

[titus]

Could you be a bit more specific about what you meant by "certain laws " ?

Apostasy for one.

SWINE FLU IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY ALLAH HAS MADE EATING PORK UNLAWFUL

Really? Where does Allah say this, since you state it as fact and not opinion?

I can show you studies saying that a glass of red wine is beneficial for you, yet Allah forbids it. I can post facts about the nutritional benefits of pork also. I could also post the harmful effects of any meat products, from beef to lamb to reindeer, yet Allah did not forbid any of those.

The fact is that anything that is forbidden or allowed can be portrayed as beneficial or harmful. Trying to "prove" that the laws of your religion are superior based on such facts is a silly exercise in futility.

[Italianguy]

Is there a point to this thread anymore?

[Woodrow]

Is there a point to this thread anymore?

It gives me something to do. I just red all of the posts and I believe that every thing that needs to be said has been said. so to keep me fromwearing out my delete button


:threadclo: