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ahmed_indian
01-30-2010, 08:16 AM
:sl:,

1. because we are not selfish that we cant spend our money on our wives.

2. because we are not niggard that we say to her to manage her own spendings.

3. because we love our wives and dont want that any non-mahram at her work-place look at her, talk to her with desire.

4. because we want to remain faithfuland dont want that women in our work-place divert us frm our wives.

5. because we are wise and know that if women also join work-force, then who'll take care of home and childern - the future ummah.

6. because we are long-sighted that know that mixing of men-women will result in cases of affairs, heartbreaks, haram physical relations, jealousy, hatred, lust, etc.
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cihad
01-30-2010, 09:04 AM
or mabye just coz we know how **** hard being a housewife is!
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Eliphaz
01-30-2010, 10:33 AM
Originally Posted by ahmed_indian
:sl:,

2. because we are not niggard that we say to her to manage her own spendings.
So she cannot manage her own income/expenditure? I know of many Muslim women who can do this very well.

3. because we love our wives and dont want that any non-mahram at her work-place look at her, talk to her with desire.
Sounds a bit paranoid and jealous to me!

4. because we want to remain faithfuland dont want that women in our work-place divert us frm our wives.
Can you not work with a woman in your workplace without having "distracting" thoughts about her?

6. because we are long-sighted that know that mixing of men-women will result in cases of affairs, heartbreaks, haram physical relations, jealousy, hatred, lust, etc.
If you say so...
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Getoffmyback
01-30-2010, 11:49 AM
Most people try to build a family with its essential pillar which is the mother . When i visited my sister in the us i learned that all her neighbors were house wifes. She even told me that most people there prefer that women stays home to raise their childrens. Christians muslims etc...
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Asiyah3
01-30-2010, 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by Eliphaz
So she cannot manage her own income/expenditure? I know of many Muslim women who can do this very well.

Among the rights of the wife has is that her husband should spend on her, and his spending on her is one of the greatest good deeds that he can do that will bring him closer to Allaah. This spending covers food, drink, clothing and housing, and all the other things that a wife needs for her sustenance and good health.



Sounds a bit paranoid and jealous to me!
Really? 65% of female workers are faced with sexual harassment in the work place in some European countries. Uh! Man, luckily I don't have the article of the portion of women working on police stations and in the army experiencing sexual harrasment. (+ the bosses making use of their status on workplaces!)
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S<Chowdhury
01-30-2010, 03:10 PM
its straying away from the topic a bit but for example if your wife for instance wants to work then should we discourage her from not working?
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ardianto
01-30-2010, 05:50 PM
Only in Indonesia, ............... maybe.

Woman's complain.
"I want to be a housewife but I must work, looking for money because my husband is lazy".

Man's complain.
"I am a jobless. I visit many offices, looking for a job, but they always told me : sorry buddy, we are looking for female employee, not male".
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Eliphaz
01-30-2010, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_

Really? 65% of female workers are faced with sexual harassment in the work place in some European countries. Uh! Man, luckily I don't have the article of the portion of women working on police stations and in the army experiencing sexual harrasment. (+ the bosses making use of their status on workplaces!)
I'm sorry but I don't see how sexual harrassment in the work place is a valid argument to say that Muslim women should be encouraged to be stay-at-home housewifes. And I don't know where you got that statistic from but it sounds like fear-mongering propaganda to me.
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جوري
01-30-2010, 11:40 PM
I really dislike this thread.
It doesn't reflect the Muslim men or women I know and leaves ample opportunity for the ignorant (Eliphaz) to have a strategic advantage where one shouldn't even come to question.

La 7wala wla qiwta illah billah

by the way all the women in my family without exception are hard working mothers and wives and daughters and aunts, they see value in their work and they benefit others and are benefited from others!

:w:
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Asiyah3
01-30-2010, 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I'm sorry but I don't see how sexual harrassment in the work place is a valid argument to say that Muslim women should be encouraged to be stay-at-home housewifes.
Islam doesn't forbit women from working.

And I don't know where you got that statistic from but it sounds like fear-mongering propaganda to me.
From the media (European).

EDIT: You said encouraged to be stay-at-home housewifes? I find that statement very ignorant. I know not one family in which the women aren't encouraged to work rather the opposite. The daughter/woman/sister's family are very supportive to studies/education. What I see around me is both the husband and wife working. And in some case (where the mother works while the small child needs it's mother.) I'll add unfortunately, coz' the child hasn't always succeeded to have the mother's nearness and love.
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Cabdullahi
01-30-2010, 11:47 PM
I don't want a housewife , i want a house with a close-knit family
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Alpha Dude
01-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I really dislike this thread.
It doesn't reflect the Muslim men or women I know and leaves ample opportunity for the ignorant (Eliphaz) to have a strategic advantage where one shouldn't even come to question.

La 7wala wla qiwta illah billah

by the way all the women in my family without exception are hard working mothers and wives and daughters and aunts, they see value in their work and they benefit others and are benefited from others!

:w:
I agree with this post.
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Beardo
01-31-2010, 12:05 AM
Well, that's a general statement. I won't mind if my spouse works as a Nurse, serving people in their medical needs. I won't mind if my spouse teaches or is a professor, attending to people in something that is greatly needed: knowledge. And so on so forth.

Muslim women have shown great ability and potential in Islamic history. I recommend the Labbayk Academy course on the Conquest of Persia for all of us here. It will prove beneficial to us all, Insha'Allah. Register free at http://labbaykacademy.com.


But back to subject.. The OP (ahmed_indian) was being lighthearted in creating this thread. He meant it in good fun, and not literally. No need to analyze it so deeply.

He's using the stereotypes people use on Muslims figuratively. So keep the lightheartedness alive and don't be such a stickler.

Allow me to translate:

In Islam, women are the Queens of the household. They may work as they choose within the boundaries of Shari'ah, which is not restricted nor limited. Rather, it is only precautious and noteworthy.

In the Pre-Islamic days of Arabia (also known as the Days of Jahiliyya (ignorance)), people used to bury their daughters alive. But when Rasulullah, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, came as a light among the darkness... there was a stop on all the infanticides (murder of infants). But these ignorant Arabs during the pre-Islamic days buried them for their own good. Before Islam arrived in the nick of time, the women would be married to their relatives, such as uncles and brother-in-laws. And I mean, they used to have multiple husbands at one time. The sanctity of marriage did not exist.

Islam came and gave them their fair share of rights in both livelihood, inheritance, freedom, and more.

In France, and other countries, they are banning the veil. The women were asked why they wore the veil. These were both married and single women, and all responded alike. They did it to preserve their own dignity. Would you rather these women sit in bars?

In my limited years of foruming, I've seen many people express their sorrow for us Americans. I see more freedom here than anywhere else. If I want a place to pray, any American would show utmost respect and clear out the entire room of not only people, but wallhangings that have eyes on them etc.

I steered off topic. I end my post here. :X
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Asiyaah
01-31-2010, 12:05 AM
At times I wish I was a housewife :P

I don't know how my mom did it. She worked full-time, raised children, kept an immaculate house. I can barely manage my apartment and full-time job. lol. Unfortunately housing is very expensive here. Most of our duel-income goes to rent. Maybe, inshallah, someday I can be a housewife. I'd like to run an online business someday, inshallah. But I'm not having much luck with ideas at the moment.

It would be nice if a woman could choose what she wants to do. Work if she wants, stay home if she wants.
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cat eyes
01-31-2010, 12:09 AM
i cant imagine myself being at home for the rest of my life even if i did have kids :( id feel useless. i want to work for Allah and gain my rewards outside of the home also.
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Beardo
01-31-2010, 12:17 AM
^ Please read the above two posts.

Muslim women are able to choose whichever style they want. They can choose to work, within Shari'ah, or they can serve as housewives. "Serve" is probably not the best word to use, as those westernists might be quick to assume i am referring to "servant" which will then lead them to "enslavement", and thus the Media influence continues...
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sabr*
01-31-2010, 12:44 AM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

ahmed_indian:

Your opinion that doesn't apply to every Muslim is obviously a contentious subject.

It is difficult for many to differentiate Cultural adaptions verses Islamic. Even though Islamic culture is sometimes interwoven with Arab Culture. But don't forget Islam prohibited many Arab traditions with origins based on paganism.

Women in some cultures are not encouraged to work and religion is sometimes is used to justify the culture practices.

Now when I provide the following Sira (History) of Nabi Muhammad (SAWS) usually all Muslims would accept it. But the practice verses what their cultures have taught them overrules many times.

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) worked for a woman. (Khadijah RA)
A female entrepreneur, a very lucrative business.

Woman are unable to drive in some countries.

Khadijah (RA) rode a camel. (That is controlling a mode of transportation)
Fatimah (RA) rode a camel.
Aisha (RA) rode a camel.

Very eager to view the responses.
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_PakistaN_
01-31-2010, 03:48 AM
I want a wife who looks pretty, works, and is lovable? lol...
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I want a wife who looks pretty, works, and is lovable? lol...
What's with the question mark? :hmm:
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CosmicPathos
01-31-2010, 12:37 PM
Originally Posted by sabr62
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

ahmed_indian:

Your opinion that doesn't apply to every Muslim is obviously a contentious subject.

It is difficult for many to differentiate Cultural adaptions verses Islamic. Even though Islamic culture is sometimes interwoven with Arab Culture. But don't forget Islam prohibited many Arab traditions with origins based on paganism.

Women in some cultures are not encouraged to work and religion is sometimes is used to justify the culture practices.

Now when I provide the following Sira (History) of Nabi Muhammad (SAWS) usually all Muslims would accept it. But the practice verses what their cultures have taught them overrules many times.

The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) worked for a woman. (Khadijah RA)
A female entrepreneur, a very lucrative business.

Woman are unable to drive in some countries.

Khadijah (RA) rode a camel. (That is controlling a mode of transportation)
Fatimah (RA) rode a camel.
Aisha (RA) rode a camel.

Very eager to view the responses.
As far as I know Ayesha (ra) did not control the camel, she rode it but did not "drive" it. If you have evidence that she "drove" it please present forth. Regarding women not being able to drive, I assume you are referring to Saudi Arabia as probably that is the only country now where its forbidden, its a pretty complex issue. Debating on an Islamic forum wont solve the issue. There are good arguments on both sides and I'll let the ulama decide what is best for the Saudi society within the light of Islamic fiqh. There are, however, pretty rebellious women in Saudi who broke the law, as a sign of protest, by driving out cars on the road. Such acts of insolence by breaking the laws would not look too good for their own cause.
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ardianto
01-31-2010, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
Really? 65% of female workers are faced with sexual harassment in the work place in some European countries. Uh! Man, luckily I don't have the article of the portion of women working on police stations and in the army experiencing sexual harrasment. (+ the bosses making use of their status on workplaces!)
That's in Europe, not in Muslim country like Indonesia. In Indonesia, sexual harrasment is also happened, but only in certain work places that full of non-religious workers who forget their 'eastern' values.

Do you know, sister ?, in Indonesia we have 'eastern' values that compatible with Islamic values.
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sevgi
01-31-2010, 02:33 PM
The initial post of this thread angered me so much...grrrr....

Why muslims prefer housewives?

NO. It's why muslim MEN prefer housewives.

Also, our prophets (pbuh) first wife was not a housewife.

If a man has issues maintaining his chastity beyond the walls of his house, he has issues. Literally. Men cannot justify such stupidity with male nature. It is not in a mans nature to want to sleep around with women other than his wife.

Sick.
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S<Chowdhury
01-31-2010, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
The initial post of this thread angered me so much...grrrr....

Why muslims prefer housewives?

NO. It's why muslim MEN prefer housewives.

Also, our prophets (pbuh) first wife was not a housewife.

If a man has issues maintaining his chastity beyond the walls of his house, he has issues. Literally. Men cannot justify such stupidity with male nature. It is not in a mans nature to want to sleep around with women other than his wife.

Sick.
this is just one guys opinion obv , i don't think all brothers want a nice lil housewife.....
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
That's in Europe, not in Muslim country like Indonesia. In Indonesia, sexual harrasment is also happened, but only in certain work places that full of non-religious workers who forget their 'eastern' values.

Do you know, sister ?, in Indonesia we have 'eastern' values that compatible with Islamic values.
I didn't know. I'm very glad to hear that :statisfie

I'd love to visit Indonesia one day, Insha'lLah... I've seen from pics it's a very beautiful country.
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
The initial post of this thread angered me so much...grrrr....
Sister, please no need to take it literally :) Take it with humour :D

Literally. Men cannot justify such stupidity with male nature. It is not in a mans nature to want to sleep around with women other than his wife.

Sick.
What does this housewife-thing have to do with sleeping with other women? :D
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by S<Chowdhury
this is just one guys opinion obv , i don't think all brothers want a nice lil housewife.....
How about yourself? :hmm:

I'm very sorry for asking, you don't have to answer.
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S<Chowdhury
01-31-2010, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
How about yourself? :hmm:
Myself well I don't really mind, if my wife wants to work then so be it and if she wants to stay at home i ain't got a problem, its her choice not mine to make.

its kl i dnt mind answering
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sevgi
01-31-2010, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
Sister, please no need to take it literally :) Take it with humour :D



What does this housewife-thing have to do with sleeping with other women? :D
Read his post again. He says women shouldnt work so that they, the men, remain loyal to their wives.

Grr.
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Read his post again. He says women shouldnt work so that they, the men, remain loyal to their wives.
:hmm: Well he did say:
4. because we want to remain faithfuland dont want that women in our work-place divert us frm our wives.
I agree with you that those men who think like this need a sense of responsibility! ... and brains!

*I'm not referring to the threadstarter*


Grr.
I love the tiger-"Grr" ;D
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ژاله
01-31-2010, 04:11 PM
4. because we want to remain faithfuland dont want that women in our work-place divert us frm our wives.
i think by this the poor brother just meant that if women work, there would surely be free mixing and fitnah (of course men cant stop working so that the workplace becomes an all women environment), and so fitnah can be avoided if women are housewives and not working women.
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zakirs
01-31-2010, 04:16 PM
/me ignores this thread because he is too young for marriage and I believe we cannot generalize that all muslim men want this ( for eg i personally think otherwise ).

:sl:
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sevgi
01-31-2010, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
:hmm: Well he did say:


I agree with you that those men who think like this need a sense of responsibility! ... and brains!

*I'm not referring to the threadstarter*




I love the tiger-"Grr" ;D
Hehe, you wouldnt like the "grr" in person. :p

Originally Posted by Malaak
i think by this the poor brother just meant that if women work, there would surely be free mixing and fitnah (of course men cant stop working so that the workplace becomes an all women environment), and so fitnah can be avoided if women are housewives and not working women.
Nope, what you are saying is his last point. In his second last point, he meant exactly what he wrote.
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Muezzin
01-31-2010, 08:10 PM
Why muslims prefer housewives?
Am I the only Muslim male on this thread who has no preference so long as a future spouse is

a) Female
b) Faithful
c) Intelligent
and
d) Not a spiteful buttock

?

EDIT: Nope, fortunately I don't appear to be.
Reply

CosmicPathos
01-31-2010, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
The initial post of this thread angered me so much...grrrr....

Why muslims prefer housewives?

NO. It's why muslim MEN prefer housewives.

Also, our prophets (pbuh) first wife was not a housewife.

If a man has issues maintaining his chastity beyond the walls of his house, he has issues. Literally. Men cannot justify such stupidity with male nature. It is not in a mans nature to want to sleep around with women other than his wife.

Sick.
It depends on how we define "housewife." As far as the evidence is concerned, I have not come across a document which shows that Khadija (ra) attended business councils where male businessmen of Arabia were present. If someone has such historical records, please do share them. After accepting Islam, I am sure she did not go out and dealt with males as part of her business ventures? Most likely she ran business from within the confinements of her house and she would have male delegates (her slaves??) who would work in the outer social society. To the extent, that she sent a slave for marriage proposal to the Prophet! She did not go by herself to offer him the marriage proposal ... makes me wonder why?

So we cannot consider Khadija (ra) to be a businesswoman who is similar to the businesswomen of today's society. We, however, need to do more anthropological studies of the nature of Islamic society of Prophet's time in order to understand the golden standards and apply them in today's world.

Wallahu Aalam.
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penartist
01-31-2010, 08:27 PM
maybe a little off topic but what happens when a woman works because her husband does not provide for her (food/ clothing/ shelter)??

Assuming she has asked him numerous times, what would be the next step?
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Hehe, you wouldnt like the "grr" in person. :p
;D

Dunno about that, but I sure find it hot to see someone swetting after sports :heated:

Nope, what you are saying is his last point. In his second last point, he meant exactly what he wrote.
I think the fourth and sixth point are related to each other.



Edit: Congratulations on becoming a full member, Penartist :D
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penartist
01-31-2010, 08:34 PM
Edit: Congratulations on becoming a full member, Penartist :D[/QUOTE]

Yesssss!!:statisfie
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Donia
01-31-2010, 08:39 PM
I personally think there is a benefit in the wife being able to stay at home when the children are infants and up until they go to school insha'Allah. After that, I think working is a good idea. That is just my humble opinion. I also believe that it is the woman's choice when there is a choice to be made. Sometimes financial situations require for the wife to work even if she would rather not.

Well I guess even in that circumstance, she does have a choice but would have to make some sacrifices.

:sl:
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//-Asif-\\
01-31-2010, 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by penartist
maybe a little off topic but what happens when a woman works because her husband does not provide for her (food/ clothing/ shelter)??

Assuming she has asked him numerous times, what would be the next step?
That would be a pretty pathetic husband, if you ask me. A husband that isn't doing such things out of laziness or what have you is not fulfilling the duties of a spouse according to Islam.

With that being the case, if the husband isn't doing it and the wife has to support the family so they won't be out on the streets, then more power to her. The husband should be ashamed of himself in that situation unless he has a crippling disability or something like that.
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Beardo
01-31-2010, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I want a wife who looks pretty, works, and is lovable? lol...
That's with everyone, not just you. :X
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Cabdullahi
01-31-2010, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I want a wife who looks pretty, works, and is lovable? lol...
Brother where's the religiosity part gone?!? :cry:


I want a wife i can give a wrestling headlock to when it gets really cold



Im just messing
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Italianguy
01-31-2010, 08:58 PM
My wife is a housewife....whats wrong with that? She is also beautiful, loving, and very faithfull to God.

Plus......she makes awesome samosas;D
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Cabdullahi
01-31-2010, 09:00 PM
^ and chapati's
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Italianguy
01-31-2010, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
^ and chapati's
LOL, Had Chapati's for breakfast today:statisfie

My wife can cook, ......WOOOOOEEEEEEE she can:D
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S<Chowdhury
01-31-2010, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by _PakistaN_
I want a wife who looks pretty, works, and is lovable? lol...
I wanted to know what was up with the question mark next to lovable.


Originally Posted by Italianguy1286184

My wife is a housewife....whats wrong with that? She is also beautiful, loving, and very faithfull.

Plus......she makes awesome samosas
LMAO if there was ever a reason 2 have a housewife that would be because she makes " awesome samosas" :D. There isn't a problem with housewife but it should be the wife's choice not the husbands.
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Asiyah3
01-31-2010, 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by Abdullahii
^ and chapati's

You mean circular chapattis?
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sabr*
01-31-2010, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
As far as I know Ayesha (ra) did not control the camel, she rode it but did not "drive" it. If you have evidence that she "drove" it please present forth. Regarding women not being able to drive, I assume you are referring to Saudi Arabia as probably that is the only country now where its forbidden, its a pretty complex issue. Debating on an Islamic forum wont solve the issue. There are good arguments on both sides and I'll let the ulama decide what is best for the Saudi society within the light of Islamic fiqh. There are, however, pretty rebellious women in Saudi who broke the law, as a sign of protest, by driving out cars on the road. Such acts of insolence by breaking the laws would not look too good for their own cause.

اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi Wa7abiScientist:

I make every attempt to defend Allah's laws.

Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
As far as I know Ayesha (ra) did not control the camel, she rode it but did not "drive" it. If you have evidence that she "drove" it please present forth.
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 138:

Narrated al-Qasim: Aisha said that whenever the Prophet intended to go on a journey, he drew lots among his wives (so as to take one of them along with him). During one of his journeys the lot fell on 'Aisha and Hafsa. When night fell the Prophet would ride beside 'Aisha and talk with her. One night Hafsa said to 'Aisha, "Won't you ride my camel tonight and I ride yours, so that you may see (me) and I see (you) (in new situation)?" 'Aisha said, "Yes, (I agree.)" So 'Aisha rode, and then the Prophet came towards 'Aisha's camel on which Hafsa was riding. He greeted Hafsa and then proceeded (beside her) till they dismounted (on the way). 'Aisha missed him, and so, when they dismounted, she put her legs in the Idhkhir and said, "O Lord (Allah)! Send a scorpion or a snake to bite me for I am not to blame him (the Prophet).

__________________________________________________ _________
Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
There are, however, pretty rebellious women in Saudi who broke the law, as a sign of protest, by driving out cars on the road. Such acts of insolence by breaking the laws would not look too good for their own cause.
Sahih Al-Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 19:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The best women are the riders of the camels and the righteous among the women of Quraish. They are the kindest women to their children in their childhood and the more careful women of the property of their husbands."

__________________________________________________ _________

Alhamdulillah
Reply

sabr*
01-31-2010, 10:51 PM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Surah Nisa 4:65

4:65 But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
(Y. Ali translation)
Reply

sabr*
01-31-2010, 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Am I the only Muslim male on this thread who has no preference?
اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi Muezzin: Our posts support the rights Allah has granted women.

Our wish list:

a) Practices Iman, Tauhid, Ihsan
b) Intellligent
c) Beautiful (Subjective)
d) Healthy
Reply

Italianguy
01-31-2010, 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
You mean circular chapattis?
Yeah and when there hot and fresh!:statisfie
Reply

Hayaa
01-31-2010, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by _muslim_
You mean circular chapattis?
:p :D:lol::haha::happy: etc
Reply

CosmicPathos
02-01-2010, 12:33 AM
Originally Posted by sabr62
اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi Wa7abiScientist:

I make every attempt to defend Allah's laws.



Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 138:

Narrated al-Qasim: Aisha said that whenever the Prophet intended to go on a journey, he drew lots among his wives (so as to take one of them along with him). During one of his journeys the lot fell on 'Aisha and Hafsa. When night fell the Prophet would ride beside 'Aisha and talk with her. One night Hafsa said to 'Aisha, "Won't you ride my camel tonight and I ride yours, so that you may see (me) and I see (you) (in new situation)?" 'Aisha said, "Yes, (I agree.)" So 'Aisha rode, and then the Prophet came towards 'Aisha's camel on which Hafsa was riding. He greeted Hafsa and then proceeded (beside her) till they dismounted (on the way). 'Aisha missed him, and so, when they dismounted, she put her legs in the Idhkhir and said, "O Lord (Allah)! Send a scorpion or a snake to bite me for I am not to blame him (the Prophet).

__________________________________________________ _________


Sahih Al-Bukari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 19:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "The best women are the riders of the camels and the righteous among the women of Quraish. They are the kindest women to their children in their childhood and the more careful women of the property of their husbands."

__________________________________________________ _________

Alhamdulillah
Thanks for providing those. But I do not see how those ahadeeth prove that it is permissible for women to go alone outside for driving a car, I am playing a saudi devil's advocate here. Did ayesha (ra) ride a camel on a journey in the absence of Prophet pbuh? If so then how regular and frequently?

So if we are to follow that hadeeth exactly, are you saying that when a husband and wife go on a journey, they should drive their own cars, side by side??! Just like how Ayesha (ra) was on a separate camel from that of Prophet's (saw)? I mean you cant take these 2 hadiths literally and derive whole rulings from it. You have to understand these 2 hadith in the context of what was happening.

============================================

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

People have spoken a great deal in the al-Jazeerah newspaper about the issue of women driving cars. It is well known that it leads to evil consequences which are well known to those who promote it, such as being alone with a non-mahram woman, unveiling, reckless mixing with men, and committing haraam actions because of which these things were forbidden. Islam forbids the things that lead to haraam and regards them as being haraam too.

Allaah commanded the wives of the Prophet and the believing women to stay in their houses, to observe hijab and to avoid showing their adornments to non-mahrams because of the permissiveness that all these things lead to, which spells doom for society. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salaah (Iqamat-as-Salaah), and give Zakaah and obey Allaah and His Messenger. Allaah wishes only to remove Ar-Rijs (evil deeds and sins) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet), and to purify you with a thorough purification”

[al-Ahzaab 33:33]

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed”

[al-Ahzaab 33:59]

.
.
.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen was asked: I hope you can explain the ruling on women driving cars. And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?

The answer to this question is based on two principles which are well known among the Muslim scholars:

The first principle is: that whatever leads to haraam is itself haraam. The evidence for this is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And insult not those whom they (disbelievers) worship besides Allaah, lest they insult Allaah wrongfully without knowledge”

[al-An’aam 6:108]

So Allaah forbids insulting the gods of the mushrikeen – even though that serves an interest – because it leads to insults against Allaah.

The second principle is: that warding off evil – if it is equal to or greater than the interests concerned – takes precedence over bringing benefits. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: In them is a great sin, and (some) benefits for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit”

[al-Baqarah 2:219]

Allaah has forbidden alcohol and gambling even though there is some benefit in them, so as to ward off the evils that result from them.

Based on these two principles, the ruling on women driving should be clear, because women driving includes a number of evils, including the following:

1 – Removal of hijab, because driving a car involves uncovering the face which is the site of fitnah and attracts the glance of men. A woman is only regarded as beautiful or ugly on the basis of her face, i.e., if it is said that she is beautiful or ugly, people only think in terms of her face. If something else is meant it must be specified, so that one would say that she has beautiful hands or beautiful hair or beautiful feet. Hence it is known that the face is the focal point. If someone were to say that a woman can drive a car without taking off her hijab, by covering her face and wearing dark glasses over her eyes, the answer to that is that this is not what really happens when women drive cars. Ask those who have seen them in other countries. Even if we assume that this could be applied initially, it would not last for long, rather the situation would soon become as it is in other countries where women drive. This is how things usually develop; they start out in an acceptable fashion then they get worse.

2 – Another evil consequence of women driving cars is that they lose their modesty, and modesty is part of faith as is narrated in a saheeh report from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Modesty is the noble characteristic that befits the nature of women and protects them from being exposed to fitnah. Hence it is mentioned in a metaphorical sense (in Arabic), in the phrase “more modest than a virgin in her seclusion.” Once a woman’s modesty is lost, do not ask about her.

3 – It also leads to women going out of the house a great deal, but their homes are better for them – as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said – because those who love to drive enjoy it very much, hence you see them driving around in their cars here and there for no purpose, except to enjoy driving.

4 – You may find a divorced woman going where she wants, whenever she wants and however she wants, for whatever purpose she wants, because she is alone in her car, at any time she wants of the day or night. She may stay out until late at night. If people are complaining about this with regard to young men, then what about young women, going all over the place the length and breadth of the country, and maybe even beyond its borders.

5 – It is a means of women rebelling against their families and husbands; at the least provocation they may go out of the house and drive in the car to wherever they think they can get some peace, as happens in the case of some young men, who are able to put up with more than women.

6 – It is a cause of fitnah in many places: when stopping at the traffic lights, or at gas stations, or at inspection points, or when stopped by policemen at the scenes of traffic infractions or accidents, or if the car stalls and the woman needs help. What will her situation be in this case? Perhaps she may come across an immoral man who takes advantage of her in return for helping her, especially if her need is great to the point of urgency.

7 – When women drive it leads to overcrowding in the streets, or it deprives some young men of the opportunity to drive cars when they are more deserving of that.

8 – It causes fitnah to flourish because women – by their nature – like to make themselves look good with clothing etc. Do you not see how attached they are to fashion? Every time a new fashion appears they throw away what they have and rush to buy the new things, even if it is worse than what they have. Do you not see the adornments that they hang on their walls? In the same way – or perhaps more so – with the cars that they drive, whenever a new model appears they will give up the first for the new one.

With regard to the questioner asking, “And what is your opinion on the idea that women driving cars is less dangerous than their riding with non-mahram drivers?” – what I think is that both of them involve danger, and one is more serious than the other in some ways, but there is no necessity that would require one to do either of them.

Please note that I have answered this question at length because of the controversy that surrounds the issue of women driving cars, and the pressure faced by conservative Saudi society, which is striving to adhere to its religious commitment and morals, to allow women to drive cars.

This would be nothing strange if it were to come from an enemy who seeks to cause harm this land which is the last bastion of Islam that the enemies of Islam wish to penetrate. But what is even stranger is that this is coming from our own people who speak our language and live under our banner, people who are dazzled by what the kaafir nations have of material advancement and admire their ways which are devoid of any moral restrictions.

End quote from Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen.

There are other cases, such as women who have to go out to work and have no husband, father or guardian to look after them and no income from the government to meet their needs, and they cannot find work that they can do at home, such as some internet-based jobs, so they are forced to go out. In that case they can use the means of transportation that poses the least danger to them.



http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/45880/female%20driving


... and yes, I am medieval minded.
Reply

sevgi
02-01-2010, 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
It depends on how we define "housewife." As far as the evidence is concerned, I have not come across a document which shows that Khadija (ra) attended business councils where male businessmen of Arabia were present. If someone has such historical records, please do share them. After accepting Islam, I am sure she did not go out and dealt with males as part of her business ventures? Most likely she ran business from within the confinements of her house and she would have male delegates (her slaves??) who would work in the outer social society. To the extent, that she sent a slave for marriage proposal to the Prophet! She did not go by herself to offer him the marriage proposal ... makes me wonder why?

So we cannot consider Khadija (ra) to be a businesswoman who is similar to the businesswomen of today's society. We, however, need to do more anthropological studies of the nature of Islamic society of Prophet's time in order to understand the golden standards and apply them in today's world.

Wallahu Aalam.
Her slave was a man was he not? Also, I think this senario is tantamount to a woman telling her secretary to make a phone call for her or something. At the end of the day, she was busy in the big bad world of business. She saw our prophet pbuh while she was in business with him and his 'company' with her own two eyes and proposed in a modest way.

Theres no reason why we couldnt and shouldnt do the same thing. In our deen there are four circumstances under which a woman may freely communicate with a man:

1. Education
2. Marriage
3. Trade and work
4. Health reasons

The boundaries of Islam are perfect and universal. Allah knows our capabilities and our flaws and constructs these boundaries accordingly. These boundaries are for men and women, regardless of our physical and mental differences.
Reply

syilla
02-01-2010, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by sabr62
اشْهَدُ انْ لّآ اِلهَ اِلَّا اللّهُ وَ اَشْهَدُ اَنَّ مُحَمَّدً اعَبْدُه وَ رسوله

Ašh hadu al-lā ilāha illā-llāhu, wa
ašh hadu anna Muhammadun ‘abduhu wa rasūluhu
I bear witness that none is worthy of worship but Allah, the One alone, without partner, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and Messenger


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi Muezzin: Our posts support the rights Allah has granted women.

Our wish list:

a) Practices Iman, Tauhid, Ihsan
b) Intellligent
c) Beautiful (Subjective)
d) Healthy
ouch to akhi Muezzin... ;D. I thought no one will quote you.

back to the topic.

As a muslim i prefer housewives with jobs too... :hmm:
Reply

Beardo
02-01-2010, 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Muezzin
Am I the only Muslim male on this thread who has no preference so long as a future spouse is

a) Female
b) Faithful
c) Intelligent
and
d) Not a spiteful buttock

?

EDIT: Nope, fortunately I don't appear to be.
What if your potential spouse sees this post? Especially (d). :X
Reply

sabr*
02-01-2010, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist
... and yes, I am medieval minded.

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Akhi Wa7abiScientist:

I am not qualified to debate the discourse presented by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen. I am not a scholar and would never pretend on a forum.

The evidence stands for itself. The Shaykh provides the instances that are actually established to protect the rights of women not hinder them.

I will continue to stand on the side of caution of supporting the rights Allah has granted women and not allow culture to inhibit those rights.

I definitely know the difference between ethic culture and Islamic culture. The sira (History) of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) provides insight into why something was revealed and how it is applied.

We agree to disagree upon the application.

Allahu 'Alim
Reply

sevgi
02-01-2010, 02:58 AM
Originally Posted by Rashad
What if your potential spouse sees this post? Especially (d). :X
Well if she can't take his post, especially d., light-heartedly, she probably is a d. Which means she isn't even a potential spouse for him :p
Reply

sevgi
02-01-2010, 03:03 AM
Dear Lord...I just realised that there is a discussion about whether or not Aisha ra rode a camel or not. :exhausted

Wasn't there a hadith where our prophet pbuh said that a day will come when women can ride alone for certain distances without being hassled or something?
Reply

Italianguy
02-01-2010, 04:07 AM
Camels are cool! .....but they stink....and mine spit on me+o(, and snored like crazy! and was lazy as he**.
Reply

Beardo
02-02-2010, 06:01 AM
Originally Posted by sevgi
Well if she can't take his post, especially d., light-heartedly, she probably is a d. Which means she isn't even a potential spouse for him :p
Hmm true. Didn't think about it like that.

I try to be cautious about what I post too. But sometimes I lose focus.
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