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sabr*
02-05-2010, 08:17 PM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

The Salafi do not support the ununited, fragmented, Non Khalafa effort of military engagement without central control. Why are people using the name and sources to establish credibility regarding acts the Salafi don't support.

Any effort that goes against the Quran and Sunnah and the early three generations are strongly disavowed. No one can make excuses for non Islamic actions. The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) endured years of physical and emotional abuse without retaliation until an Islamic state was established.

The Direction of Allah and the Prophet on killing innocents and other Muslims.


Surah Furqan 25:68

Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.
(Y. Ali translation)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 687:

Narrated Jarir:

The Prophet ordered me during Hajjatul-Wada'. "Ask the people to listen." He then said, "Do not become infidels after me by cutting the necks (throats) of one another. "

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 70:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (i.e., an evil-doing), and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)."


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 257:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 258:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.


If a Muslim doesn't agree with a position that goes against the above direction of Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad they are accused of supporting Kufr and are ridiculed and disrespected?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 70:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (i.e., an evil-doing), and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)."
(REREAD!)

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 56:

Narrated Masruq:

Abdullah bin 'Amr mentioned Allah's Apostle saying that he was neither a Fahish nor a Mutafahish. Abdullah bin 'Amr added, Allah's Apostle said, 'The best among you are those who have the best manners and character.'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 44:


Narrates Ibn Umar:

Allah' Apostle said, Gabriel kept on recommending me about treating the neighbors in a kind and polite manner, so much so that I thought that he would order (me) to make them (my) heirs."

One of the main objectives of the Salafi is to abstain and fight against heretical beliefs and practices that are brought into Islam. To make Allahs word superior.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 65:


Narrated Abu Musa:

A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause."

Muslims who observe Salafi don't support or make excuses for freelancing Jihad.

It is a form of shirk to venerate men. Educated Muslims know that scholars are only a voice to direct to the worship of Allah and the following of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS).

Any Muslims using scholars Fawtas to demote, degrade, discredit another scholar has lost sight of why Muslims study Islam. (To practice!)
That is a form of scholar bashing! Discontinue it.

Surah Nisa 4:65

But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.
(Y. Ali translation)

It appears there is no current Mujahidīn who endured a military campaign Fisabilillah (Chechnya, Afganistan 1980, Bosnia). I suggest you discontinue venting your anger at Muslims online. Reserve it for the Kufr.

The warning of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) about the speech of men

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 76:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Two men came from the east and delivered speeches, and the Prophet said, "Some eloquent speech has the in fluency of magic (e.g., some people refuse to do something and then a good eloquent speaker addresses them and then they agree to do that very thing after his speech). "

The warning of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) regarding religious knowledge taken away

Religious knowledge being taken away

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 158:

Narrated Anas:

I will narrate to you a Habith I heard from Allah's Apostle and none other than I will tell you of it. I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "From among the portents of the Hour are the following: Religious knowledge will be taken away; General ignorance (in religious matters) will increase; illegal Sexual intercourse will prevail: Drinking of alcoholic drinks will prevail. Men will decrease in number, and women will increase in number, so much so that fifty women will be looked after by one man."


Muslims need to be United!

Surah Hujurat 49:10

The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy. (Y. Ali translation)

The truth is not always popular but necessary!
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Asiyah3
02-05-2010, 08:55 PM
Subhaan-Allah.

May Allah reunite the Ummah and guide us to the Straight path.
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sur
02-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by sabr62
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم
...The Salafi do not support the ununited, fragmented, Non Khalafa effort of military engagement without central control. ...
Though I don't know & don't want to know who exactly salafi are....
but I agree with the doctrine u mentioned....

...The Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) endured years of physical and emotional abuse without retaliation until an Islamic state was established...
I agree... once a scholar said that in islam we should NOT wage a war UNLESS we have around one-third of enemy's power.... He based his ruling on fact that Prophet avoided physical conflict till muslim force grew 313 -vs- 1000 enemy soldiers in Ghazwa-e-badr....

All these so-called jihadi groups are nowhere close to one-third of enemy's strength. But i have said elsewhere that these groups are produced by & fuled by different agencies like CIA, Mossad, RAW, MI-6, KGB etc. They are just using islamic terminology & concepts in distorted ways.

These agencies produce few "Leaders" & many "crazy" ppl who are passionate about islam BUT have NO understanding of real islam, join these "Leaders" & bandwagon continues...

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sabr*
02-17-2010, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by sur

Though I don't know & don't want to know who exactly salafi are....
but I agree with the doctrine u mentioned....



I agree... once a scholar said that in islam we should NOT wage a war UNLESS we have around one-third of enemy's power.... He based his ruling on fact that Prophet avoided physical conflict till muslim force grew 313 -vs- 1000 enemy soldiers in Ghazwa-e-badr....

All these so-called jihadi groups are nowhere close to one-third of enemy's strength. But i have said elsewhere that these groups are produced by & fuled by different agencies like CIA, Mossad, RAW, MI-6, KGB etc. They are just using islamic terminology & concepts in distorted ways.

These agencies produce few "Leaders" & many "crazy" ppl who are passionate about islam BUT have NO understanding of real islam, join these "Leaders" & bandwagon continues...
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

It is embarrassing that practicing Muslims are in denial and blindly support the stooges, lackeys and flunkies of the Western Governments who have been on their payrolls for decades. Even when Al-Jazeera makes a link between the Western Governments and military and financial aid packages denial persists. It is strange how a group of people can hate a country or people but continue to accept aid and always expect them to come to their rescue.

This is one of the ways the Khalifah was abolished. The enemies of Islam only can do it with the assistance of Munafiqun.

When the Western Governments had a common enemy reflect on who they trained and armed in the 1980's to establish a resistance. History can be misquoted but never changed.
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titus
02-18-2010, 06:25 AM
It is embarrassing that practicing Muslims are in denial and blindly support the stooges, lackeys and flunkies of the Western Governments who have been on their payrolls for decades.
Just as embarrassing, I am sure, when Muslims support violent groups solely because they call themselves "Islamic", regardless of the acts they commit.

Denial comes in many forms. Another form is that of believing that all the "bad" groups are secretly controlled by the CIA/MI6/Mossad/Illuminati/Bigfoot/etc. just to make Muslims look bad.
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sabr*
02-18-2010, 06:35 AM
Originally Posted by titus
Just as embarrassing, I am sure, when Muslims support violent groups solely because they call themselves "Islamic", regardless of the acts they commit.

Denial comes in many forms. Another form is that of believing that all the "bad" groups are secretly controlled by the CIA/MI6/Mossad/Illuminati/Bigfoot/etc. just to make Muslims look bad.
Titus:

I totally agree. This user is against the conspiracy theories created upon fear and contrived stories using youtube videos to support outlandish positions.

This is all attributed to the people who perpetrate this falsehood and no reflection on Islam. Islam continues to attract more adherents why the people who promote this thinking dies and fades. A very small minority.

Killing non combatants, women and children is un-Islamic.
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titus
02-18-2010, 06:42 AM
Watch out Sabr, if too many Muslims start thinking the way you do then they might actually start working together and become a major world power.
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sabr*
02-18-2010, 06:51 AM
Originally Posted by titus
Watch out Sabr, if too many Muslims start thinking the way you do then they might actually start working together and become a major world power.
titus:

It is in the interest of those that control countries populated by a majority of Muslims to not allow this to occur. They promote the disinformation to maintain control, keep the peoples wealth, keep the people in rural villages and feed their fears.

Islam will continue to flourish despite the apparent obstacles. This starts with the education of the ignorant masses.

Religious knowledge being taken away

Sahih Bukahari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 158:

Narrated Anas:

I will narrate to you a Habith I heard from Allah's Apostle and none other than I will tell you of it. I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "From among the portents of the Hour are the following: Religious knowledge will be taken away; General ignorance (in religious matters) will increase; illegal Sexual intercourse will prevail: Drinking of alcoholic drinks will prevail. Men will decrease in number, and women will increase in number, so much so that fifty women will be looked after by one man."
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-18-2010, 09:12 AM
EDIT: i cant be bothered :hmm:
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titus
02-18-2010, 02:27 PM
Peace Ummu Sufyaan,

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I agree with Sabr.
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sabr*
02-19-2010, 03:14 AM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

titus:

the dysfunctional thinking is usually rampant on forums. Formal Islamic education isn't required. If you reflect upon who the radical thinkers follow and names they promote there is no formal Islamic education and are usually self taught.

The majority of great thinkers and respected Muslim scholars have studied under someone respected in the Sunni Madhhab formally.

Review the history of those who adhere to the Salafi. Many attempt to reference the sources but don't actually follow the methodology.

Salafi (Arabic: سلفي‎) is a Sunni Islamic movement that takes the pious ancestors, the Salaf of the patristic period of early Islam, as exemplary models. The word Salaf is an Arabic noun which may be translated as "predecessor" or "ancestor". In Islamic terminology, it is generally used to refer to the first three generations of Muslims: the Sahabah ("The Companions"), the Tabi‘in ("The Followers") and the Taba‘ at-Tabi‘in ("Those after the Followers"). These three generations are looked upon as examples of how Islam should be practiced.

Islam is fortunate that the thought of disregarding the prohibition by Allah and Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) of killing non-combatants, women and children is a minority. The actual denial and justification is a crime.

Alhamdulillah Allah (SWT) has decreed that his guidance and word will be guarded against corruption.

Titus you are only agreeing with the truth. It has nothing to do with this user and everything to do with properly applying Islam and not cultural and tribal influences.

Surah Hijr 15:9
15:9 We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Y. Ali translation)
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titus
02-19-2010, 04:21 AM
It has nothing to do with this user and everything to do with properly applying Islam and not cultural and tribal influences.
In regards to believing every crackpot conspiracy though? Until Muslims stop falling for them little will be accomplished. It is almost like an involuntary reflex in that many Muslims refuse to believe that other Muslims can do anything wrong, therefore in order to perpetuate that myth they create scenarios in which everything is the fault of someone other than a Muslim.

As long as this mindset is prevalent then the groups that commit these acts know they can act with impunity in the Muslim community because people will either believe they are innocent or blindly believe they are right simply because they call themselves Muslim.

How should Muslims react to groups that call themselves Muslim or Islamic, yet go against the teachings of the Quran by purposely targeting innocent people?
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sabr*
02-19-2010, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by titus
How should Muslims react to groups that call themselves Muslim or Islamic, yet go against the teachings of the Quran by purposely targeting innocent people?
titus:

The respected Muslim Scholars speak out against the innovators frequently. Their voices are not popular directly addressing those who attempt to justify killing non-combatants, women, children, blowing up Masjid and schools.

The mindset of this backward thinking is to support the cause no matter what because there are no current alternatives. Like Allah will bless an evil because the end results will be good. Astaghfirullah (إستغفار‎)


Surah Nisa 4:135

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well- acquainted with all that ye do.
(Y. Ali translation)

We support reestablishing the Khalifah and an Islamic State and not the promotion of tribalism and regional cultures over applying Islam.
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sabr*
03-04-2010, 03:01 PM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Who is actually fighting in the cause of Allah to protect the rights of those who are oppressed verses bombing and killing those who are oppressed and attempting to justify it.

Surah Nisa 4:74

75. And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allâh, and for those weak, ill*-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help." (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
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sabr*
07-17-2010, 01:51 AM
سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful


As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

we can only perform du'a that this years observance of saum (fasting, abstaining) in the Islamic month of Ramadan will be empty of killing innocent women, children, and non-combatants.
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__follower
07-18-2010, 12:19 PM
may allah unite us all
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yahia12
07-18-2010, 10:48 PM
this aint something new. their arrogancy and greedy overwhelms their faith. they do also give islam a bad name. i think the enemies are among hypocrite themselves.
Reply

sabr*
07-20-2010, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Serdar
this aint something new. their arrogancy and greedy overwhelms their faith. they do also give islam a bad name. i think the enemies are among hypocrite themselves.
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Serdar:

No one can give a practicing Muslim a bad name. The apologist and Western thought promoters who attribute the bad judgment and un-Islamic behavior to convince Muslims that incorporating democracy into the society is a great thing. Islam is a theocracy ruled by Allah.

When millions of people commit crimes in America who list their religion as Christian, the crimes are not attributed to Christianity. So why would anyone attribute the acts performed by people claiming Islam as their religion be attributed to Islam. No one can ever give Islam a bad name. Submitting oneself to Allah could never be bad.

Religious knowledge being taken away

Sahih Bukahari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 158:

Narrated Anas:

I will narrate to you a Habith I heard from Allah's Apostle and none other than I will tell you of it. I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "From among the portents of the Hour are the following: Religious knowledge will be taken away; General ignorance (in religious matters) will increase; illegal Sexual intercourse will prevail: Drinking of alcoholic drinks will prevail. Men will decrease in number, and women will increase in number, so much so that fifty women will be looked after by one man."
Reply

Sister Unknown
07-21-2010, 12:00 AM
Wa Alaykum SALAM

What I never understood is the reality of the title of this thread. We are all Muslims no matter what sect one belongs too. Unless someone made takfeer blah blah.... But remember that hadeeth in which Resool ,saws, said to an ashaba that he didn't know what was in his heart after he uttered the shahadat? I don't know. Whatever the case, we can never make takfeer of an antire group. And what is happening here? Muslims are fighting other Muslim groups!!!

My knowledge is limited...
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sabr*
07-21-2010, 12:15 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Sister Unknown:

If you search the forum you will locate endless links aiding you increasing your knowledge regarding Islam. It appears intially to be a maze but with the guidance of Allah you will increase your knowledge. Insha Allah.

In Islamic law, takfir or takfeer (تكفير) refers to apostasy in Islam.

The denials of fundamental religious principles can make a person a takfir; thus a murderer, for instance, may still be a Muslim, but someone who denies that murder is a sin must be a kafir, as long as he is aware that murder is a sin in Islam. Another example: denying the five fundamental pillars of Islam or the articles of faith.


Surah Nisa 4:94

O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of Allâh, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islâm): "You are not a believer"; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life. There are much more profits and booties with Allâh. Even as he is now, so were you yourselves before till Allâh conferred on you His Favours (i.e. guided you to Islâm), therefore, be cautious in discrimination. Allâh is ever well* aware of what you do. (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

Jazakumullahu Khair
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Sister Unknown
07-21-2010, 12:29 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):
Wa Alaykum Salam

May Allah reward you for your time to your brotehrs and sisters.

If you search the forum you will locate endless links aiding you increasing your knowledge regarding Islam. It appears intially to be a maze but with the guidance of Allah you will increase your knowledge. Insha Allah.
I have enough links for sure. May Alalh, azz wa jall, increase us all in knowledge we will act upon. Ameen


The denials of fundamental religious principles can make a person a takfir; thus a murderer, for instance, may still be a Muslim, but someone who denies that murder is a sin must be a kafir, as long as he is aware that murder is a sin in Islam. Another example: denying the five fundamental pillars of Islam or the articles of faith.
This shakes things up. What about denying alcohol is forbidden? Or is it not as simple? I don't think they deny it as such. For example, Ashari will tell you "Allah is above the heavens" and we believe the same, but "how" do we believe it differs... I don't think any sect denies the five pillars or the six articles of faith, it is the "how" they believe in them.

Oh well.. What I said previously was right?

JazzakALalhu Khayr
Reply

sabr*
07-21-2010, 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by Sister Unknown
Wa Alaykum Salam

This shakes things up. What about denying alcohol is forbidden? JazzakALalhu Khayr
Surah Baqarah 2:219

They ask you (O Muhammad) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling. Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they ought to spend. Say: "That which is beyond your needs." Thus Allâh makes clear to you His Laws in order that you may give thought."
(Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

Surah Ma'idah 5:90-91

O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al*Ansâb, and Al*Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitân's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.

Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from As-Salât (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain.
(Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Sister Unknown:

Denying the above ayat is clear cut. But this thread is getting off topic. Please locate the appropriate thread for this discussion.

Jazakumullahu Khair
Reply

Sister Unknown
07-21-2010, 01:33 AM
Shukran. Just wantted to know becasue a person I know denies that. But I am not stupid to make takfeer on a person!
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sabr*
07-27-2010, 12:48 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):


Sahih Bukahri Volume 9, Book 84, Number 69:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established till two (huge) groups fight against each other, their claim being one and the same."

Jazakumullahu Khair
Reply

Sister Unknown
07-27-2010, 03:42 PM
......... Which ones?
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sabr*
08-03-2010, 03:12 AM
Originally Posted by Sister Unknown
......... Which ones?

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Does it really matter? Muslims fighting each other is Fitna. You can apply it to all the fighting currently occurring. Each side thinks they are correct. With differing supporters. Horrible!

The killing of innocent women, children, elderly,non combatants and blowing up the places where Allah's name is glorified will be answered to Allah.
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sabr*
08-21-2010, 12:12 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 9:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."
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sabr*
08-21-2010, 12:15 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 10:

Narrated Abu Musa:

Some people asked Allah's Apostle, "Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?" He replied, "One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands."
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sabr*
08-21-2010, 12:16 AM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 12:

Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself."
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ابن آل مرة
08-21-2010, 12:36 AM
:sl:

I like the topic of this thread. But you cant say that there is no Jihad just because we do not have a khalifa. We have to defend ourselves when we get attacked by kuffar in Muslim lands. You cannot just let them do whatever they want just because there is no Khalifa to emerge a army. The problem these days is people are not on one/correct Manhaj. Which is the Ahlus Sunnah wa Jama3(Salafs).
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sabr*
08-21-2010, 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by Ahmed M.
:sl:
Originally Posted by Ahmed M.


I like the topic of this thread. But you cant say that there is no Jihad just because we do not have a khalifa. We have to defend ourselves when we get attacked by kuffar in Muslim lands. You cannot just let them do whatever they want just because there is no Khalifa to emerge a army. The problem these days is people are not on one/correct Manhaj. Which is the Ahlus Sunnah wa Jama3(Salafs).

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Ahmed M:

Defending oneself or community is different from establishing campaigns that are targeted to kill innocent Muslims, women, children and non combatants. Destroying Masjid and churches. Anyone attempting to justify those actions against Allah's commands identifies themselves.
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MSalman
08-21-2010, 11:06 AM
As-salaamu alaykum

Bimsillah

subhaanAllah, I've a lot to say but that will have to wait until the day after Eid.
Reply

sabr*
08-25-2010, 10:40 PM
As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Surah Nahl 16:90

90. Verily, Allâh enjoins Al-Adl (i.e. justice and worshipping none but Allâh Alone - Islâmic Monotheism) and Al-Ihsân [i.e. to be patient in performing your duties to Allâh, totally for Allâh's sake and in accordance with the Sunnah (legal ways) of the Prophet SAW in a perfect manner], and giving (help) to kith and kin (i.e. all that Allâh has ordered you to give them e.g., wealth, visiting, looking after them, or any other kind of help, etc.): and forbids Al-Fahshâ' (i.e all evil deeds, e.g. illegal sexual acts, disobedience of parents, polytheism, to tell lies, to give false witness, to kill a life without right, etc.), and Al-Munkar (i.e all that is prohibited by Islâmic law: polytheism of every kind, disbelief and every kind of evil deeds, etc.), and Al-Baghy (i.e. all kinds of oppression), He admonishes you, that you may take heed. (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)
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