Is depression caused by a problem with the brain or is it spiritually related?

[Salahudeen]

What do you guys think?? is depression an illness that you just get like any other other illnesse, that has to be cured with drugs/medicine.

or do you think it's deeper than that, some people feel depressed for abosolutely no reason at all, they just can't get out of that depressed mood.

other people are unhappy with their lifes so they feel depressed all the time

what do you guys think is a cure for depression besides medication/drugs.

I remember reading ages ago in an article depression comes because of constant negative thoughts, and if you think positive thoughts instead the depression goes.

it's all to do with the thought process the article claimed, and it said hypnosis can cure depression by filling the subconcious mind with positive thoughts and feelings that will over time replace the sad/negative thoughts and feelings.

what you guys think?? I asked sheikh Salem Al Amry once how to get rid of depression and he said dhikr of Allah and knowing Allah.

do you guys think depression can be removed by following Islam? what if a person feels so depressed and hopeless that he can't bring himself to do anything and finds motivating himself to be the hardest thing ever. No doubt our external environment also plays a part in how we feel.

if your living in the UK where the weather is always cloudy and miserable with rain and short days, your gonna feel not so happy compared to if you were living in a nice sunny country with long days.

the short days are so horrible, you wake up and it's dark go to work/uni sit in a office all day, come out and it's dark again. how do you not feel depressed.

[CosmicPathos]

I think depression is caused by a biological process. The trigers of this biological process could be "spiritual" in nature and from personal religious perspective, yes they are. The problem though is that depression cure varies from people to people. Some can be cured by dhikr of Allah (swt), others get cured by listening to music or something! And then there are who never get out of depressive mode.

[Salahudeen]

^ yeah, the doctor advised my mum a few years bacl to listen to music cos it lifts your mood. hmm interesting, I've noticed personally I always feel depressed in winter, I feel like I'm lost and all ways miserable, never talk or socialise, I literally hibernate in my house.

winter blues I think it's called. but depression is just a feeling isn't it, a feeling of sadness,despair and hopelessness. but it's hard to replace it with positive feelings :|

hmm I feel for those people who can never get out of depression mode, they must resort to pills eventually :(

[CosmicPathos]

^ yeah, the doctor advised my mum a few years bacl to listen to music cos it lifts your mood. hmm interesting, I've noticed personally I always feel depressed in winter, I feel like I'm lost and all ways miserable, never talk or socialise, I literally hibernate in my house.

winter blues I think it's called. but depression is just a feeling isn't it, a feeling of sadness,despair and hopelessness. but it's hard to replace it with positive feelings :|

hmm I feel for those people who can never get out of depression mode, they must resort to pills eventually :(

yes, winter is my pet-peeve. Especially, snow. I used to love it when I was living in the desert. Always wanted to experience snow. But once I have been imprisoned in this winterland, winters are my depression-triggers. When all life dies, colors fade away to white snow and black tarmac roads ... aah, the colors of nature ....

I wonder how humans lived in the last ice age which ended about 10000 years ago .... I cant imagine how much tough it would have been for them ... I wish they had left behind diaries and poems that we could relish.

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[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

what you guys think?? I asked sheikh Salem Al Amry once how to get rid of depression and he said dhikr of Allah and knowing Allah.

do you guys think depression can be removed by following Islam? what if a person feels so depressed and hopeless that he can't bring himself to do anything and finds motivating himself to be the hardest thing ever.

I concur with what the Shaykh says. Dhikr cannot be emphasised enough. Along with dua.

However, a person needs conviction too. When he's making dua, he needs to have his attention toward Allah and sincerely ask for Allah's help and relief from sorrow. You need to think of Allah as listening to every word that you utter and accepting it all. You need certitude. Don't let duas be just a set of whispered words with no substance behind them.

There's plenty of duas that deal with relieving stress etc. Like this one, for example:

‘O Allaah, I am Your servant, son of Your servant, son of Your maidservant, my forelock is in Your hand, Your command over me is forever executed and Your decree over me is just. I ask You by every name belonging to You which You name Yourself with, or revealed in Your Book, or You taught to any of Your creation, or You have preserved in the knowledge of the unseen with You, that You make the Qur’aan the life of my heart and the light of my breast, and a departure for my sorrow and a release for my anxiety.’

The Prophet SAW said about this dua:

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Mas’ood said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no-one who is afflicted by distress and grief, and says: ‘Allaahumma inni ‘abduka ibn ‘abdika ibn amatija naasyati bi yadika, maada fiyya hukmuka, ‘adlun fiyya qadaa’uka. As’aluka bi kulli ismin huwa laka sammayta bihi nafsaka aw anzaltahu fi kitaabika aw ‘allamtahu ahadan min khalqika aw ista’tharta bihi fi ‘ilm il-ghayb ‘indaka an taj’al al-Qur’aana rabee’ qalbi wa noor sadri wa jalaa’ huzni wa dhihaab hammi,’ but Allaah will take away his distress and grief, and replace it with joy.” He was asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, should we learn this?” He said: “Of course; everyone who hears it should learn it.”

So, clearly. There are spiritual solutions for problems like depression.

In my own experience, I've found that if I make it a routine to do at least 20 mins worth of 'stock' duas (by this, I mean a good number of standard sunnah duas that you can find in booklets) every morning after Fajr and every evening after maghrib, I feel safe and protected from worldly and spiritual harm. Couple that with a personal dua that lasts 20 mins or so everyday asking Allah for help from everything.

If a person did this everyday, he would feel a sense of tawakul and trust in Allah arise inside him InshaAllah and whenever any sense of sorrow comes upon him, the first thought that would come to mind would be to seek help from Allah via dua and prayer. Pay careful attention to the meaning of the dua I posted: It says '...that You make the Qur’aan the life of my heart and the light of my breast, and a departure for my sorrow and a release for my anxiety...' Which implies that the solution for a depressed state of mind is to be found in the Quran.

“We sent down in the Quran that which is a cure and mercy for the faithful”. (17:82)

“Say: For those who have faith, it (Quran) is a guidance and healing; but as for those who are faithless, there is a deafness in their ears and it is lost to their sight”. (41:44)

[Salahudeen]

^when we talk about dhikr do you mean simply saying subhanallah, alhamdulilah and allah hu akbar aswell as other words of praise?

or does everything you mentioned above come under dhikr?

[Woodrow]

^ yeah, the doctor advised my mum a few years bacl to listen to music cos it lifts your mood. hmm interesting, I've noticed personally I always feel depressed in winter, I feel like I'm lost and all ways miserable, never talk or socialise, I literally hibernate in my house.

winter blues I think it's called. but depression is just a feeling isn't it, a feeling of sadness,despair and hopelessness. but it's hard to replace it with positive feelings :|

hmm I feel for those people who can never get out of depression mode, they must resort to pills eventually :(

:sl:

winter blues (seasonal depression) is very real and affects all who live in areas that have long, cold, dreary winters. It is like living in a dark dungeon for 3-6 months out of the year. The best way to offset it is to take on an additional responsibility this time of years. Such as the caring for livestock, making it a point to make daily checks on the welfare of the disabled and elderly in the area, Going outside during the brightest time of the day, even if it is only for a few minutes.

Taking advantage of the bright, clear night skies and stepping outside some time each clear night to view the beauty of the stars. Starting a new relaxing hobby, such as wood working or even practicing calligraphy. Use the time of solitude to study the Qur'an, try to copy a few ayyats from the Qur'an in Arabic

The winter months are the best months for viewing the night skies, take up amateur astronomy and view the beauties of the universe that can only be seen this time of year.

[Alpha Dude]

or does everything you mentioned above come under dhikr?

Everything.

To be honest, I have a different take on depression than most people. It can be a sudden total loss of interest and motivation for the world and everything in it. I think that's good thing, in a way. For one thing, he's not wasting his time in futile, material indulgence like heedless people do.

If a person is in this state, he lets things happen and just tends to 'go with the flow' right? I mean, say a depressed person's walking in the street and somebody comes up and chucks some rubbish onto him. He'd just brush it off right, given his state of mind? I don't see any depressed person fighting or contesting it. He'd just be like 'yeah whatever' with a glum looking expression on his face, right?

In my opinion, depressed people are resigned people. It's almost as though they've submitted to fate. They let things happen - 'oh what they heck' to everything.

I think if a muslim person who was depressed were to utilise this feeling, he can become a very strong muslim. He can turn it around and assume that he is submitting to Allah's will for him. With this resigned submission, comes tawakul and Allah has said, for those who place their trust in him, Allah is sufficient for them.

Total submission to Allah's will and extreme tawakul is the behaviour characteristic of Prophets and the Sahaba may Allah be pleased with them all.

[جوري]

I think everyone got it correct here masha'Allah, it is a chemical imbalance but no one knows for sure what brings it on except in very specific cases-- so could be a spiritual reason behind the chemical imbalance. & Allah swt knows best..

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

Everything.

To be honest, I have a different take on depression than most people. It can be a sudden total loss of interest and motivation for the world and everything in it. I think that's good thing, in a way. For one thing, he's not wasting his time in futile, material indulgence like heedless people do.

If a person is in this state, he lets things happen and just tends to 'go with the flow' right? I mean, say a depressed person's walking in the street and somebody comes up and chucks some rubbish onto him. He'd just brush it off right, given his state of mind? I don't see any depressed person fighting or contesting it. He'd just be like 'yeah whatever' with a glum looking expression on his face, right?

In my opinion, depressed people are resigned people. It's almost as though they've submitted to fate. They let things happen - 'oh what they heck' to everything.

I think if a muslim person who was depressed were to utilise this feeling, he can become a very strong muslim. He can turn it around and assume that he is submitting to Allah's will for him. With this resigned submission, comes tawakul and Allah has said, for those who place their trust in him, Allah is sufficient for them.

Total submission to Allah's will and extreme tawakul is the behaviour characteristic of Prophets and the Sahaba may Allah be pleased with them all.

I agree with what you have to say here. The problem arises when this state of resignation starts interfering with those things which are considered necessary of living. For example job, relations with humans etc. On one extreme, this resignation can make one to escape the human behavior of societies and make him run to the forest where no human lives and where he can worship God. So one has to be careful in balancing these.

[gladTidings]

I do believe depression is a very real medical condition, however, I dont believe that there is any medicinal 'cure' available for depression. The underlying cause of depression, such as drugs, financial problems, death of relatives etc. should be treated. As muslims, accepting the decree of Allah s.w.t, recognising that He gives us that which is best for us and being grateful for what we do have is helpful.

I like shaykh Sulaiman Moola's talk on Depression vs. Contentment, it really helps to put things into perspective:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYyWPpzt9b8

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxlb6...eature=channel

Ws.

[Asiyah3]

I think depression can be both spiritually and physically caused. To the spiritual cause divorce and loneliness are common examples. Physical causes are evident on adolescence/teenagers.

[aadil77]

I think depression gets triggered by certain reasons, I think for you it might be 'winter blues' for me sometimes it can be if I don't go out with mates enough.

Winter can be depressing but I wonder how people living in russia survive, its always grey there, I personally feel more depressed in summer because all the fitna around. Winter is great bruv :shade:, less fitna depending on how cold it is lol, you can get alot more done without feeling sweaty after walking for just 5 mins, football season etc etc

Just keep yourself occupied and you'll be alright, there's no need for pills.

[Mujahidah4Allah]

Everything.

To be honest, I have a different take on depression than most people. It can be a sudden total loss of interest and motivation for the world and everything in it. I think that's good thing, in a way. For one thing, he's not wasting his time in futile, material indulgence like heedless people do.

If a person is in this state, he lets things happen and just tends to 'go with the flow' right? I mean, say a depressed person's walking in the street and somebody comes up and chucks some rubbish onto him. He'd just brush it off right, given his state of mind? I don't see any depressed person fighting or contesting it. He'd just be like 'yeah whatever' with a glum looking expression on his face, right?

In my opinion, depressed people are resigned people. It's almost as though they've submitted to fate. They let things happen - 'oh what they heck' to everything.

agree but then say the persons attitude is 'yeah whatever' wouldn't that also show signs of carelessness, as if they've given up on the world e.g 'who cares if i had rubbish chucked at me, people treat me like rubbish everyday anyway'... = negative minded = needs to resolve this by finding out what his/her downfalls are, whats pulling them down, why the glum look? It good be generally the atmosphere they're in but for this attitude to occur i think its lack of self motivation, negative mindedness of a person and of course at time because that persons lost that link with Allah :arabic2: and needs to find a way to re connect... Wallahu Alam

wa/salam

[Salahudeen]

thanks for all your replies.

[tango92]

for the true believer, mental health is forever correlated with iman levels...

[CosmicPathos]

agree but then say the persons attitude is 'yeah whatever' wouldn't that also show signs of carelessness, as if they've given up on the world e.g 'who cares if i had rubbish chucked at me, people treat me like rubbish everyday anyway'... = negative minded = needs to resolve this by finding out what his/her downfalls are, whats pulling them down, why the glum look? It good be generally the atmosphere they're in but for this attitude to occur i think its lack of self motivation, negative mindedness of a person and of course at time because that persons lost that link with Allah :arabic2: and needs to find a way to re connect... Wallahu Alam

wa/salam

I disagree with this. Being glum is not bad. What the brother suggested for the resignation is a very good advice. You, basically, do not care about the world and are not involved in its pomp and show. That being said, this is a double edged sword and can make you adopt same attitude for religion: you dont care about praying and just live a "useless" life. With proper balance, a life of resignation is one which is very close to the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Actually according to your advice, Prphet would have done self-analysis why people were throwing trash on him or stoning him? No. He did not.

The only problem is that a resignated life-style is not acceptable in the West and such a person who do not participate in life is considered very asocial and selfish. It was different in Medinan times.
Walahu aalam.

[gladTidings]

I disagree with this. Being glum is not bad. What the brother suggested for the resignation is a very good advice. You, basically, do not care about the world and are not involved in its pomp and show. That being said, this is a double edged sword and can make you adopt same attitude for religion: you dont care about praying and just live a "useless" life. With proper balance, a life of resignation is one which is very close to the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Actually according to your advice, Prphet would have done self-analysis why people were throwing trash on him or stoning him? No. He did not.

The only problem is that a resignated life-style is not acceptable in the West and such a person who do not participate in life is considered very asocial and selfish. It was different in Medinan times.
Walahu aalam.

I dont think that the resignated life-style is completely accepted by Islam either. What if a man's depression leads him to totally withdrawing himself from others around him and neglecting his duties to provide for his family? Even if it leads him to devoting himself in worship. Im sorry if im going off topic but this came to mind:

In Islam work is given special importance to the extent that it is considered as an act of worship in itself. Although some people believe that they are not obliged to work because they dedicate themselves to worshiping God, this is actually a wrong perception of the concept of worship. The Muslim scholar Imam Al-Ghazali mentioned in his book Ihyaa’ `Ulum Ad-Deen (Revival of the Religious Sciences) that Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) once saw a man who had completely devoted himself to worship. When he asked him how he got his daily bread, the man replied that his brother, who worked, provided him with food. Jesus then told him, “That brother of yours is more religious than you are” (The Book of Provision, Chapter 1). Al-Ghazali also mentions the Prophet’s Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, who used to stress this point further by telling people, “Never should anyone of you think that du`aa’ (supplication) for sustenance without work will avail him, for heaven never rains gold nor silver” (The Book of Provision, Chapter 1).

Read more: http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...#ixzz0enCdgWcr

[CosmicPathos]

I dont think that the resignated life-style is completely accepted by Islam either. What if a man's depression leads him to totally withdrawing himself from others around him and neglecting his duties to provide for his family? Even if it leads him to devoting himself in worship. Im sorry if im going off topic but this came to mind:

In Islam work is given special importance to the extent that it is considered as an act of worship in itself. Although some people believe that they are not obliged to work because they dedicate themselves to worshiping God, this is actually a wrong perception of the concept of worship. The Muslim scholar Imam Al-Ghazali mentioned in his book Ihyaa’ `Ulum Ad-Deen (Revival of the Religious Sciences) that Jesus (peace and blessings be upon him) once saw a man who had completely devoted himself to worship. When he asked him how he got his daily bread, the man replied that his brother, who worked, provided him with food. Jesus then told him, “That brother of yours is more religious than you are” (The Book of Provision, Chapter 1). Al-Ghazali also mentions the Prophet’s Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab, who used to stress this point further by telling people, “Never should anyone of you think that du`aa’ (supplication) for sustenance without work will avail him, for heaven never rains gold nor silver” (The Book of Provision, Chapter 1).

Read more: http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/...#ixzz0enCdgWcr

You are right. That is why such people who want to live a resigned life do not want to marry. They already have too much on their plate in the form of relations with parents, siblings and other relatives and hence they wanna avoid marriage. And as far as I know, if they are not married, they do not even need to earn money because they have no family to provide for! Its really beautiful. You live without any worries because you only have to feed yourself and couple of dates + water suffices each day.

[Woodrow]

You are right. That is why such people who want to live a resigned life do not want to marry. They already have too much on their plate in the form of relations with parents, siblings and other relatives and hence they wanna avoid marriage. And as far as I know, if they are not married, they do not even need to earn money because they have no family to provide for! Its really beautiful. You live without any worries because you only have to feed yourself and couple of dates + water suffices each day.

back in the 1950s in the era immediately preceding the Hippy era we were the Beatnik generation. Our attitude was to completely drop out of the responsibility of life. We had escaped from the responsibility of life and had given up all hope of a better future. we were the drop outs from life.

Very similar to what you just posted. Although we saw ourselves as being very benign and accepting of all things, we probably were the most self centered and selfish generation to come out of America.

[sabr*]

With proper balance, a life of resignation is one which is very close to the life of Prophet Muhammad pbuh. .

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

I am compelled to make the distinction between people with undiagnosed mental health concerns and the life of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) who was an example for mankind.

1. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was not a recluse nor anti-social.
2. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was a husband, father and Military leader.
3. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) didn't neglect or make excuses for fulfilling his responsibilities as a man.
4. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) married, established a family and was an example of those who follow his Sunnah in word and deeds.
5. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) immediate family became his priority and primary concern.

[Abdul Qadir]

thanks for all your replies.

wait till u learn ospf and eigrp and u will really feel depressed..=p

[Salahudeen]

wait till u learn ospf and eigrp and u will really feel depressed..=p

what are they brother? :)

[Alpha Dude]

Depressed people can turn their resigned state to their advantage. They have a 'stuff it' mentality that would probably prevent them from having long term goals. In that way, it will be easier for them to live each day as though it were their last (as we have been commanded).

They have little yearning for dunya related stuff and thus are less likely to become jealous of people, less likely to have exagerated sense of lust, less likely to be greedy or money hungry, less likely to be prideful, less likely to be arrogant, less likely to be vain, less likely to be immature, less likely to dwell on the petty and trivial.

Depressed people are more likely to be reserved, they'd usually only speak when spoken to. No useless convo. Just like we have been told to do by the Prophet SAW.

Whenever the Prophet SAW ever had something to laugh about, it was only a smile that he produced. It was never full on laughter. This is the same behaviour I'd expect to see from depressed people. They are in such a constant state of despair that their hearts wouldn't let them enjoy a unrestricted laughter of joy or otherwise. Only a half hearted smile at best is likely to be seen. Why was the Prophet Muhammad SAW like that? Cos he himself was in a constant state of agitation due to the gravity of the deen. The Prophet SAW knew the reality of this world and said 'If you knew what I know, you would laugh less and cry more'.

Depressed people are ten times more likely to engage in contemplation. They just need that push and when the yearning grows inside of them, they are far more likely to have a greater consciousness and realisation of Allah. Whereas with heedless people who go about their daily lives just praying the five salah, yet being so enganged in the dunya, they can't spend time to contemplate on Allah. They get bored. Depressed people are contemplative by nature.

They can't flip a switch and stop being 'deep' people. This is behaviour that has been moulded into their very beings, by the hardships that they've experienced.

On the flip side, their depression can be harmful in that they are more likely to be lazy, unenthusiastic, uncaring about situations. This can be dangerous to themselves and their iman, I don't deny that. But to lump people who have depression like symptoms as a mental disorder altogether to be treatd as being a bad state in and of itself is wrong in my opinion. There is good in it.

I mean, when people seek to 'cure' depression, what do they really seek to do? Make depressed people like enjoyment in this world? Laugh and play wholeheartedly without a care in the world? Is that meant to be a cure, really?

I'd say the best cure would be to give these people the correct understanding and guide them to turn their depression into contentment and submission. This does not mean we teach them not to tie their camels or not to complete their responsibilities. Everything has to be done by sharia. But to relegate depression as a disease to be cured is laughable. Psychologists, certainly non-muslim ones, would consider the praiseworthy traits I mentioned above about depressed people to be bad. They will want to 'treat' it. I say no to that.

Imagine a perfectly sane and joyful person is locked up for life. Prior to entry, while acknowledging that Allah exists and Islam being real, he drinks, fornicates, gambles, doesn't pray, commits sin after sin without a care in the world and enjoys life to the maximum.

The first few years he'd try to fight out of the locked room. He'd do it with passion and vigour. He'd feel as though the world was passing him by. He's not having fun anymore. It's so unfair etc etc. However, soon the realisation will dawn upon him that he cannot do anything about his situation. The only thing left is to accept and submit to it. He'll withdraw. He'll become reserved. He'll yearn for nothing. All the stuff that used to make him happy before will become meaningless to him. The state this man would eventually get into as a result would probably be termed as depression by most people/psychologists.

Now, look at the facts. This guy has become completely changed such that he doesn't even have the desire to indulge in major sins:
1. No desire to drink.
2. No desire to fornicate.
3. No desire to gamble.

This world is meaningless to him. 'Live as though you are a traveller'.. how is that possible if you love this world too much?

Health problem my a$$. This is a GOOD state to be in. Now all that needs to be done is to CHANNEL this condition into being motivated toward deen. A good pschyo would try and convince this guy to chase after the world again just so that he can feel alive and happy again. o_O

The locked room above can be seen as an analogy of the different ways in which people can become depressed. They face something so dreadful in life that they feel trapped, with no hope and no idea on where to go, what to do. The effects of being trapped is that it will keep you in a permanent state of despair and that despair will KILL your desires.

Having the ego (nafs) destroyed is undoubtedly a GOOD thing. Nowadays we're far far too indulgent and slaves of our own desires. A little bit of having things being put into perspective is not all awry.

Allah has said if Allah wills good upon people, he gives them hardship. Now ask yourself, considering the example of the locked room, this guy has been knocked away from following a lifetime of petty indulgences and had his mind trained to not even desire for such things. Is this NOT Allah willing good upon him? Everything happens by the will of Allah and there is wisdom in everything. Like I said, this guy needs now to be pushed toward deen. Not be stuffed full of meds so that he can go back to feeling love for the petty stuff he did before.

All too often people are growing disillusioned with this world. It's all a fake. There's so much BS out there. Our souls grow tired of it. That's why depression is so widespread. People don't want the crap anymore but don't know how to cope.

Their lives feel meaningless to them. Non-muslims will seek psychological treatment for it. They'll classify themselves as depressed and resign themselves to a lifetime of addiction to tablets as an apparent cure. They'll look to humanity for help.

I don't blame them, but as muslims, we know that the cure is with Allah alone.

The way this modern world and society has been engineered is not conducive toward gaining a free and healthy state of mind in the first place. It indirectly promotes depression. The whole system is corrupt. We need to think outside of the confines of this plastic place. In that there is good.

Imagine living in a serene and calm place. You are in a pleasant mountain farming community. There are simple wooden huts where you live. There is water from a spring. You farm, forage, you hunt for food. You have a central mosque where you and all other members of the community go to pray every day and on time. You don't have the things that constrict people in modern society. No useless distractions. You're praying and keeping your duty to Allah, you're being physically active and providing for your family.

Would you feel depressed there? Others may differ on this, but I honestly don't think I would, come rain or shine. It's the entire atmosphere that's pure and serene. Compare that to what we get confronted by on a daily basis in our current environments. Chase chase chase the dunya. We're prisoners!

We're always being prepared for the 'next' stage of life. When we're very young, we're told to prepare for nursery. In nursery, we're being prepared for primary school. In primary, we're told to prepare for secondary. In secondary, it's all about preparing for college. While in college, we're prepared for Uni. While in Uni, we're prepared for 'work'. While at work, we're preparing and yearn for retirement!

It's always planning planning planning. No rest. No living the day as it comes. It is very hard to live each day as it was your last like the Prophet SAW told us, when we are conditioned into preparing and planning for the next stage of life all the time.

The problem arises when our plans go against us. When things don't go our way, uh oh, we're doomed. We don't know how to cope. We hit rock bottom and suddenly things don't matter anymore and we become lost, forlorn and depressed. After a few years without cure, this depression is lodged deep within our minds and left unchecked, it becomes who we are.

We need to recognise that although we plan, Allah also plans and Allah is the best of planners. It will be that what Allah has planned for you is better for you than what you have planned. Thus, it is better to resign and submit to Allah's will. I'm not saying be absolutely fatalistic at all times, but those times when there is no other option, what else is there but to submit? What would you rather have depressed people do? Cry their whole lives?

From the get go, we're all conditioned into forming a life in this world as though it's permanent and the be all and end all. We're encouraged to chase success and happiness, whatever that means. We're not given the necessary coping mechanisms that allows us to come to terms with all sorts of loss or the patience we need to perservere in times of hardship.

The first step to being content is to accept that this world is nothing. Only a test. We shouldn't feel too upset at things that don't go our way. Be it death of loved ones, loss of romantic interests, loss of money, whatever. Even if we're thrown on the street and made destitute. These things should not make us lose hope in Allah.

No amount of money in the world would make a depressed soul happy or feel 'alive'. No amount of food, no amount of women, no amount of anything. True contentment lies only in the worship and remembrance of Allah. Verily, in the remembrance of Allah do hearts find rest.

Hasbunallahu wa nimal wakeel. People need to also have this understanding that they need nothing and nobody except Allah.

Having utmost faith and reliance on Allah WILL help depressed people.

[Salahudeen]

^ masha Allah, tabarak Allah.

[gladTidings]

:sl:

You made some very valuable points above, but I do not think using the depressed state of a person to strengthen his/her iman is as easy as you make out. While a depressed person may be less inclined to the world, the depression does not neccassarily create a platform for them to become stronger in deen. I don't know if you've been through depression yourself, or know anybody around you who has and followed the route as you suggested.

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam,

If an independent person/psych were to look at my state, I'd most likely be incorrectly diagnosed with depression.

I do not think using the depressed state of a person to strengthen his/her iman is as easy as you make out.

Of course. I don't mean to say it's easy.

However, it is the ONLY solution.

[Abdul Qadir]

what are they brother? :)

A routing table is used by routers like a map, when a router receives a packet it checks the routing table for the best path to send the packet down. The best path is determined by the number of hops to the destination. geeky knowledge level = 10%

They are dynamic routing protocols in CCNA brother....i guess you have not covered that yet...lol

[Salahudeen]

They are dynamic routing protocols in CCNA brother....i guess you have not covered that yet...lol

not yet brother lol, we've just covered RIP and RIP V1, RIP is a routing protocol that determines the best path by the number of hops I think, I could be wrong.

but that doesn't neccessarily mean it's the best routing protocol because the number of hops to the destination isn't a 100% accurate way of finding the quickest way to the destination. It isn't the best "metric" yay I remembered the geeky word my teacher used :)

For example the connection speed of the interfaces also plays an important role, you could have 1 path that is only 2 hops to the destination and another path that is 4 hops to the destination, however the 4hops path might be quicker than the two hops path because it could have a faster connection speed on the interfaces like T1 and the other interfaces with less hops could have 56k connection speed.

RIP also broadcasts route information to other routers if you allow it to,

hmm that's all I remember, do you know if what I said above is correct bro? :p I could be totally wrong :(

also why did they release RIP Version 1 again? I know it's an updated version of RIP but what was the reason they released it?

is it to do with class 4 ip addresses or something? :p we should make our own cisco thread.

[cat eyes]

i think depression is caused by grief of a person dying or losing somebody very special or growing up in a dysfunctional family. my family for example are always fighting and that made me mentally sick

[noorseeker]

i think i finally admit, i got mild depression, after 16 months, May be i am going to see a doctor who can refer me to some counnselling.

But my prob is spiritual and mental, so i dont know who to see,

Sticking to the halal and Allah swt commandments are making me depressed
The nafs are not in peace,

I dont wanna fight anymore, in too much debt , cant get married , i dont know what to do

[Salahudeen]

i think i finally admit, i got mild depression, after 16 months, May be i am going to see a doctor who can refer me to some counnselling.

But my prob is spiritual and mental, so i dont know who to see,

Sticking to the halal and Allah swt commandments are making me depressed
The nafs are not in peace,

I dont wanna fight anymore, in too much debt , cant get married , i dont know what to do

welcome to my life imsad have you tried taking st johns wort? I'm taking it at the moment and I think it's working :hmm: it's for mild depression. and it's herbal remedy.

my nafs not in peace also :( and marriage I'm giving up on the idea :( I've got more chance of winning the lottery I think imsad

[CosmicPathos]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

I am compelled to make the distinction between people with undiagnosed mental health concerns and the life of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) who was an example for mankind.

1. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was not a recluse nor anti-social.
2. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) was a husband, father and Military leader.
3. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) didn't neglect or make excuses for fulfilling his responsibilities as a man.
4. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) married, established a family and was an example of those who follow his Sunnah in word and deeds.
5. Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) immediate family became his priority and primary concern.

Look at this self-proclaimed follower of Muhammad (pbuh). He claims that those people who have a different worldview have "undiagnosed mental health concerns." Way to go.

Prophet Muhammad pbuh spent quite a lot of time in seclusion in the mornings, his visit to the cave etc. The Prophet also ate minimal food, a quality of a "recluse." Umar (ra) also ate minimal food. Did not have snack every 3 hours.

If Prophet's "immediate family" was his priority, why does Ayesha (ra) say that weeks would pass by and fire would not be lit in their kitchen? I am not saying that Prophet pbuh did not take care of his family, he did. We have bring our definitions of "taking care" of family in line with his (saw).

You have to first define what are the responsibilities of "a man." One can be considered refusing to fulfill those responsibilities if he promised to fulfill em and is now avoiding em. A man who does not even marry, how is he trying to escape his responsibilities? He has not even accepted and become responsible for that thing yet as he has not even married.

[CosmicPathos]

back in the 1950s in the era immediately preceding the Hippy era we were the Beatnik generation. Our attitude was to completely drop out of the responsibility of life. We had escaped from the responsibility of life and had given up all hope of a better future. we were the drop outs from life.

Very similar to what you just posted. Although we saw ourselves as being very benign and accepting of all things, we probably were the most self centered and selfish generation to come out of America.

I think the Hippie movement was quite different. These guys were into drugs and what not and the rock movement also coincides with their emergence. Jimmy Hendrix?

I am talking about zuhd. Muslim sufis (good ones) have been practicing this for centuries in Persia, India, and probably Arabia too.

Even Ibn Taymiyya (ra) has spent a life which is very similar to that of a recluse. He did not marry. All of his energies were devoted to Allah and not to his body or nafs. He, just like the Prophet, participated in worldly activities but only those which were related to Allah's deen. Neither I nor Alpha are claiming that we give up on these responsibilities which we have towards Allah (swt). If you read the letter of Ibn Taymiyya to his mother, he did not even have the opportunity to meet his mom as he was traveling, not for his pleasure, but for Allah's deen. That is the recluse we are talking about. This recluse is very different from Christian monk who encloses himself in monastery and completely breaks off from the world. A Jain also in his old age completely breaks off from world including eating till he dies of starvation. We are not saying a Muslim "recluse" is like that.

[noorseeker]

welcome to my life imsad have you tried taking st johns wort? I'm taking it at the moment and I think it's working :hmm: it's for mild depression. and it's herbal remedy.

my nafs not in peace also :( and marriage I'm giving up on the idea :( I've got more chance of winning the lottery I think imsad

i know st john worts works ,

Brother are they 100% halal , i only ask because its a herb, and it gets your mind a bit heavy. please let me know please

[cat eyes]

i think i finally admit, i got mild depression, after 16 months, May be i am going to see a doctor who can refer me to some counnselling.

But my prob is spiritual and mental, so i dont know who to see,

Sticking to the halal and Allah swt commandments are making me depressed
The nafs are not in peace,

I dont wanna fight anymore, in too much debt , cant get married , i dont know what to do

brother i know how u feel :( i want to implement islam everyday of my life so i wouldn't even have time to sin if i was doing something good everyday. it seems like my friends dont have time for me there busy with raising there kids most of them have kids of course i see them i go to there house we talk about our deen and i feel so much at peace and my iman reaches a mountain top we meet at the mosque from time to time but still its tough i feel alone sometimes it makes me depressed

[Salahudeen]

i know st john worts works ,

Brother are they 100% halal , i only ask because its a herb, and it gets your mind a bit heavy. please let me know please

hmm I'm not sure, but aren't they just like flowers or something? they're not from living things right?

[noorseeker]

I wanna feel that peace inside of me while fighting my nafs

or are we not meant too, I always hear islam is a way of life

so why i aint i feeling it any more.

[Salahudeen]

I wanna feel that peace inside of me while fighting my nafs

or are we not meant too, I always hear islam is a way of life

so why i aint i feeling it any more.

I know what you mean, I've tasted the peace you are talking about, It's been ages since I felt it imsad

I'm all ways trying to reproduce the things that made me get it like the way I prayed but I can't get it back imsad

[noorseeker]

^^ bro we need to go to Abu zayd for a nice steak to cheer us up lol

[Salahudeen]

^^ bro we need to go to Abu zayd for a nice steak to cheer us up lol

lol yeah defo I'm up for it lol, we'll go, that's on Cov Road right? we could go after jummah but it will be full with people :hmm:

[noorseeker]

its works on trust there, after you eaten , you just go up to the counter and tell em what you eaten, they dont even check up lol.

[Salahudeen]

^ lol hmm I'm gonna go there this evening with my mum for take out ;D what do you recommend I get? I've never been there before? :p

[noorseeker]

mashallah taking your mum. ive only had the chicken steak, £4.50 lol

i went with friend last time , and ordered the wrong thing, dont think he was happy paying for £4.50 ,

[Woodrow]

I think the Hippie movement was quite different. These guys were into drugs and what not and the rock movement also coincides with their emergence. Jimmy Hendrix?

I am talking about zuhd. Muslim sufis (good ones) have been practicing this for centuries in Persia, India, and probably Arabia too.

Even Ibn Taymiyya (ra) has spent a life which is very similar to that of a recluse. He did not marry. All of his energies were devoted to Allah and not to his body or nafs. He, just like the Prophet, participated in worldly activities but only those which were related to Allah's deen. Neither I nor Alpha are claiming that we give up on these responsibilities which we have towards Allah (swt). If you read the letter of Ibn Taymiyya to his mother, he did not even have the opportunity to meet his mom as he was traveling, not for his pleasure, but for Allah's deen. That is the recluse we are talking about. This recluse is very different from Christian monk who encloses himself in monastery and completely breaks off from the world. A Jain also in his old age completely breaks off from world including eating till he dies of starvation. We are not saying a Muslim "recluse" is like that.

The hippy movement that followed the Beat Generation (beatniks) was more into self indulgence and drugs.

The beatniks were drop outs from society and escape from worldly thoughts. a time of Zen, nonsensical poetry, but it did open the doors that brought about the hippies (flower children)

For that reason I said we were very selfish and ran from responsibility. It was a short term life style (about 1955-1960), most of us only followed it for a few months and most of the others were driven out or woke up with the coming of the hippies.

Looking back it was a form of mass depression.

[Salahudeen]

mashallah taking your mum. ive only had the chicken steak, £4.50 lol

i went with friend last time , and ordered the wrong thing, dont think he was happy paying for £4.50 ,

lol yeah she's gonna wait in the car while I go in and get it ;D lol hmm I'll check it out, £4.50 is pricey for a single meal,

I'm used to 99p chicken and chips LOL and the jobs a good un. ;D

[noorseeker]

yeah its steak thats why it expensive, but there a lot of other stuff there

[Salahudeen]

yeah its steak thats why it expensive, but there a lot of other stuff there

I had it brother with rice, it was very nice alhamdulilah especially the rice, but the chicken wasn't as nice as I anticipated. I was hoping it would be juicy but it was dry :|

[Abdul Qadir]

not yet brother lol, we've just covered RIP and RIP V1, RIP is a routing protocol that determines the best path by the number of hops I think, I could be wrong.

but that doesn't neccessarily mean it's the best routing protocol because the number of hops to the destination isn't a 100% accurate way of finding the quickest way to the destination. It isn't the best "metric" yay I remembered the geeky word my teacher used :)

For example the connection speed of the interfaces also plays an important role, you could have 1 path that is only 2 hops to the destination and another path that is 4 hops to the destination, however the 4hops path might be quicker than the two hops path because it could have a faster connection speed on the interfaces like T1 and the other interfaces with less hops could have 56k connection speed.

RIP also broadcasts route information to other routers if you allow it to,

hmm that's all I remember, do you know if what I said above is correct bro? :p I could be totally wrong :(

also why did they release RIP Version 1 again? I know it's an updated version of RIP but what was the reason they released it?

is it to do with class 4 ip addresses or something? :p we should make our own cisco thread.

you are right...rip send full updates periodically...and that wastes bandwith..also, it takes the shortest path being oblivious to the link speed...rather stupid..routing protocols like OSPF are more intelligent and run algorithms likes SPF against their link stat database(info the router has gather about its neighbours) to find the best path to each subnets. but its not actually difficult...u will learn...RIP version one was the first version if im not wrong..then there was the better RIP V2..RIP V1 sends broadcasts updates E.G 255.255.255.255 but RIP V2 saves bandwidth by using multicast e.g 224.0.0.9....lol..yes! we should make our own Cisco thread...

[جوري]

Think these videos are pertinent to the topic & should be viewed by all insha'Allah

http://depression.emedtv.com/depress...ion-video.html

[AlbanianMuslim]

Good question OP

It can be a combination of both, or one or the other. Sometimes a chemical imbalance is the issue for some people. For others it can be purely spiritual. At one point in my life I was descending into depression. What saved me was Islam alhamdullah and my father who had at that time been a recent practitioner though we were a "muslim" family. When my father began to pray and follow the religious guidelines of Islam, he changed immensely into a model father and husband. He then helped guide me and I reached a level of happiness I had not known before.

[sunmonkey]

Depression can be caused by a wide range of issues:
- Chemical imbalance in the brain
- Stress
- Genetics

It is not somethings that can be cured by listening to the right music.

[Dagless]

Depressed people can turn their resigned state to their advantage. They have a 'stuff it' mentality that would probably prevent them from having long term goals. In that way, it will be easier for them to live each day as though it were their last (as we have been commanded).

Now, look at the facts. This guy has become completely changed such that he doesn't even have the desire to indulge in major sins:
1. No desire to drink.
2. No desire to fornicate.
3. No desire to gamble.

This world is meaningless to him. 'Live as though you are a traveller'.. how is that possible if you love this world too much?

Health problem my a$$. This is a GOOD state to be in. Now all that needs to be done is to CHANNEL this condition into being motivated toward deen. A good pschyo would try and convince this guy to chase after the world again just so that he can feel alive and happy again. o_O

One of the first posts of yours I have read that I disagree with.
There is a difference between being a teenager and being depressed. The emo attitude you are describing is just lack of desire. If depressed people had only lack of desire then why would they want to kill themselves?
A good psych would try to address there feelings of despair, not make them chase anything. The state they are in is an unhappy one for themselves and those around them. If it brings no joy how can it be good? If they cannot function in life then what makes you think they can channel their energy into deen?

[~*~Serene~*~]

I don't think most of you know what you are talking about. To many of you thinks depression is about lack of iman. Thats just some cases. You could a have a good iman and still be affected by depression.

I allow me to give examples


1) Realize depression can have many different triggers.

Depression triggered by mother giving birth to baby
Depression triggered by winter season
Depression triggered by lack of religion
Depression triggered from loss of a loved one
Depression trigged by stress and environment or heritary
.
.
.
etc

2) Realize there are many different forms of depressions.

Depression triggered by mother giving birth to baby = might cause Postpartum depression
Depression triggered by winter season, less sunlight = might cause Winter Seasonal Affective Disorder
Depression triggered by lack of religion = might cause Low Iman,
Depression triggered from loss of a loved one = might cause Mild, Medium or Major depression
Depression trigged by stress and environment or heritary = might cause Bipolar Disoder

EtC

3) Realize the are many different treatments.
antidepressant medication
psychotherapy
counselling
excersize
light therapy
Eating right
vitaimins
prayer

[SMA89]

I don't think most of you know what you are talking about. To many of you thinks depression is about lack of iman. Thats just some cases. You could a have a good iman and still be affected by depression.

I allow me to give examples


1) Realize depression can have many different triggers.

Depression triggered by mother giving birth to baby
Depression triggered by winter season
Depression triggered by lack of religion
Depression triggered from loss of a loved one
Depression trigged by stress and environment or heritary
.
.
.
etc

2) Realize there are many different forms of depressions.

Depression triggered by mother giving birth to baby = might cause Postpartum depression
Depression triggered by winter season, less sunlight = might cause Winter Seasonal Affective Disorder
Depression triggered by lack of religion = might cause Low Iman,
Depression triggered from loss of a loved one = might cause Mild, Medium or Major depression
Depression trigged by stress and environment or heritary = might cause Bipolar Disoder

EtC

3) Realize the are many different treatments.
antidepressant medication
psychotherapy
counselling
excersize
light therapy
Eating right
vitaimins
prayer

Best answer.. I have S.A.D. and I hate it. That's why I plan on moving south to California right after im done with University here (Toronto, Canada). The weather in California is perfect for me.

[~*~Serene~*~]

^ the doctor says i have a mood disorder = Bipolar disorder.

I really didn't like reading this thread. it makes me sad so many people focus so much on one trigger and one type of depression = Lack of iman

Lets focus on others please

i'll keep this short. This is a "chemical imbalance" in the brain. You need to treat this as a injury. Some injuries are more serious then others. Different injuries may need different treatments.

I'm pretty sure I know my trigger and it's not a lack of iman. Thank you all for this thread. I'll try avoid talking to muslims about my struggle. Well at least the majority.

[Salahudeen]

Best answer.. I have S.A.D. and I hate it. That's why I plan on moving south to California right after im done with University here (Toronto, Canada). The weather in California is perfect for me.

Don't suppose you know anywhere that has long days all year round? I have the same S.A.D it comes from the short days.