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Al-Indunisiy
02-18-2010, 03:25 PM
:sl:

Were any of these true?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWeMU...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4Pvt...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdkWU...eature=related

:wa:
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JoshuaD
02-18-2010, 03:30 PM
Yes, completely true.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 03:32 PM
They are true, but the Serbs started it.
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JoshuaD
02-18-2010, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
They are true, but the Serbs started it.
Muslims started it by occupying and colonising Serbia for 400 years.
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CosmicPathos
02-18-2010, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Muslims started it by occupying and colonising Serbia for 400 years.
They were serbian Muslims.
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JoshuaD
02-18-2010, 09:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
They were serbian Muslims.
Don't be ridiculous.
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CosmicPathos
02-18-2010, 09:52 PM
i believe genocide of serbians who KILLED Muslims is perfectly Islamic.
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sister herb
02-18-2010, 10:00 PM
If here is anything ridiculous, it is this:

format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Muslims started it by occupying and colonising Serbia for 400 years.
:p

This must give Serbs right to massacre civilians like they did for example in Screbrenica?
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 10:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Muslims started it by occupying and colonising Serbia for 400 years.
Turks occupied Serbia, not Bosniaks. Boasniaks are the slavic people who converted to Islam during the Turkish rule.
And they seemed to get along quite fine for at least 35 years, from world war to till president Tito's death, and even before that in Kingdom of Yugoslavia and few years after Tito's death, at least until Sarajevo winter olympics in 1984.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 10:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
i believe genocide of serbians who KILLED Muslims is perfectly Islamic.
Muslims didn't only target Serbians who killed their own.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 10:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Muslims started it by occupying and colonising Serbia for 400 years.
Who cares who started it??? the Serb army committed mass murders. Want to claim thats a lie? Well, why dont we go ask my brother. Oh wait we cant thanks to a serbian soldier.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 10:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Don't be ridiculous.
Kosovo is serbia huh? Go say that to a kosovars face. I cant believe this guy is allowed on this forum with that signature.

Kosovo is KOSOVA THE LAND OF THE ALBANIAN MUSLIMS. Yesterday alhamdullah was our independence day celebration. Hope you got a chance to join in the festivities!!! They were mighty fun.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:01 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/cryfromthegrave/

I encourage EVERYONE to watch the film Cry From the Grave about the Serbs massacre of the Bosnian muslims in Srebrenica.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:04 PM
Its called a war. This particular war the Serbian military went and raped, massacred, murdered, pillaged and killed Muslims in various provinces of the former Yugoslavia. In response, Muslims banded together, got themselves some weapons and fought back.

Dont dish it if you cant take it.

Rest in peace Adem, the rest of my family members who were killed as well as the thousands upon thousands upon thousands destroyed by the war.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-DUsQyklUM
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:09 PM
I encourage everyone to watch the film Grbavica, about a Muslim woman who was raped by SErbian soldiers during the war which she keeps from her daughter, telling her her dad was a šehid, a shaheed, a martyr. A great movie, quite sad too.
The leading lady is curiously played by Mirjana Karanović, a famous Serbian actor. I've just found out today she took the job of playing a leading role in Grbavica's director's lates movie called On the path and it's about religion in Bosnia, she plays a Muslim too.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Its called a war. This particular war the Serbian military went and raped, massacred, murdered, pillaged and killed Muslims in various provinces of the former Yugoslavia. In response, Muslims banded together, got themselves some weapons and fought back.
They did have a reason, however, Bosnian Serbs wanted to stay in Yugoslavia along with Serbia and the rest wanted independence.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:16 PM
That is true.

I just want to make it clear. The war wasnt, as many believe, mainly for religious reasons. It was politics.Politicians played upon human weakness and easily swayed the masses to believe that it is a religious war or this or that.

The reality of it is, thousands of people died on BOTH sides. However, people who try to lay blame on the muslims are ignorant fools. The muslims did not attack serbs until AFTER the serbs were already killing muslims. What were they supposed to do? Walk to their deaths willingly? I dont think so.
The things I saw during that war will stay with me forever.

This isnt to say though, that ALL serbs are bad. A serbian woman helped my family by giving us food and shelter on our way out of Kosovo. She was sweet and kind and cried many tears with my mother because of the way things had fallen apart. Before the war, Serbs and Albanian, Serbs and Bosnians etc had lived as neighbords. Many had been friends. Now, they do not speak or look at each other.

It is a sad sad stain on world history but it is there. Inshallah they catch the worst of them all, Mladic. Even if they dont, may he get what he deserves in the hearafter for all the pain he caused.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:17 PM
Another thing, for those who arent history fanatics like myself. Read up on WWI and Hungarian-Austrian Empire which had mashed all these groups together then after WWI the world leaders decided to draw countries on a map without taking into account what areas has more of one group or another. We still feel the repercussions of what those imbeciles did now.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
That is true.

I just want to make it clear. The war wasnt, as many believe, mainly for religious reasons. It was politics.Politicians played upon human weakness and easily swayed the masses to believe that it is a religious war or this or that.

The reality of it is, thousands of people died on BOTH sides. However, people who try to lay blame on the muslims are ignorant fools. The muslims did not attack serbs until AFTER the serbs were already killing muslims. What were they supposed to do? Walk to their deaths willingly? I dont think so.
The things I saw during that war will stay with me forever.

This isnt to say though, that ALL serbs are bad. A serbian woman helped my family by giving us food and shelter on our way out of Kosovo. She was sweet and kind and cried many tears with my mother because of the way things had fallen apart. Before the war, Serbs and Albanian, Serbs and Bosnians etc had lived as neighbords. Many had been friends. Now, they do not speak or look at each other.

It is a sad sad stain on world history but it is there. Inshallah they catch the worst of them all, Mladic. Even if they dont, may he get what he deserves in the hearafter for all the pain he caused.
Its pretty hard for Kosovar Serbs nowadays, they're being molested and terrorized in areas there's just a few left.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Another thing, for those who arent history fanatics like myself. Read up on WWI and Hungarian-Austrian Empire which had mashed all these groups together then after WWI the world leaders decided to draw countries on a map without taking into account what areas has more of one group or another. We still feel the repercussions of what those imbeciles did now.
Kosovo has always been a part of Serbia and it wasnt the world leaders that drew maps after the cessation of AH empire. Kingdom of Yugoslavia, or at least the Kosovo part, was formed with valid borders of the day by which Kosovo was a part of serbia.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:30 PM
Well, no its not. Kosova is KOSOVA and the Serbs who say otherwise can go cry in the corner. RROFT KOSOVA!!! 2/17/08
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Kosovo has always been a part of Serbia and it wasnt the world leaders that drew maps after the cessation of AH empire. Kingdom of Yugoslavia, or at least the Kosovo part, was formed with valid borders of the day by which Kosovo was a part of serbia.
No one said Kosova was ever independent before that, but when they drew those lines they should have taken into account the ethnicities and where they are located. But anyway, like i said, it wont matter now because Kosovo is free.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Well, no its not. Kosova is KOSOVA and the Serbs who say otherwise can go cry in the corner. RROFT KOSOVA!!! 2/17/08
The international court of justice will soon announce its decision whether your independence is legal or not.
I support Kosovo though, I was told Kosovars started their fight for independence in Ljubljana, Slovenia, by organizing some sort of national congress there, the first of its kind. Slovenia let you have it despite Serbian opposition.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:34 PM
In our minds and hearts it is legal. The international courts know they will have a second war on their hands if it is declared otherwise.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
No one said Kosova was ever independent before that, but when they drew those lines they should have taken into account the ethnicities and where they are located. But anyway, like i said, it wont matter now because Kosovo is free.
If borders had been drawn according to ethnic composition (in the time the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was founded), the European part of today's Turkey along with its largest city would have been Bulgarian and Greek.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
In our minds and hearts it is legal. The international courts know they will have a second war on their hands if it is declared otherwise.
Of course there won't be a second war. Serbia wont attack you as it hasn't by now but it will still claim its moral ownership of the territory and certain countries may back their recognition and no new country will recognize you.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:47 PM
Dont be so sure about that my friend. Anything can happen. Believe me, if the international court declares that kosovo is not independent, there will be violence and it very well could escalate into civil war if one side does something drastic.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-18-2010, 11:48 PM
65 countries in 2 years have recognized it, and it will continue to grow as the international community sees Kosovos growth. http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:50 PM
Bosnia seems to be in a turmoil as well. Republika Srpska and Dodik plan to have a referendum on their independence. (That's mainly due to Kosovo in my opinion but nevermind)
Besides that, the country is fighting the rise of Saudi inspired ultrareligious communities.
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Froggy
02-18-2010, 11:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
65 countries in 2 years have recognized it, and it will continue to grow as the international community sees Kosovos growth. http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/
Most recognitions happened months after independence and i doubt lots more are t follow, especially if the court declares it illegal.
Thats off topic I guess, this thread is about Bosnia.
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CosmicPathos
02-19-2010, 03:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Bosnia seems to be in a turmoil as well. Republika Srpska and Dodik plan to have a referendum on their independence. (That's mainly due to Kosovo in my opinion but nevermind)
Besides that, the country is fighting the rise of Saudi inspired ultrareligious communities.
so a country is fighting those who left their families to come to help them from Saudi?
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Abdul Qadir
02-19-2010, 03:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
They are true, but the Serbs started it.
i will use the famous quote from the indian film Nayagan: "Ask them to stop, we'll stop..."
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AlbanianMuslim
02-19-2010, 05:47 AM
Like I said, it doesnt matter who started it now, the end result is this: Kosovo is free and it is now the third country in Europe that is predominantly Muslim alongside Bosnia and Albania. It will never be Serbia. The Kingdom of Serbia is dead. If the entire country itself ceased to exist I know many a bosnian and a albanian who wouldnt shed a tear. We are still waiting for some of our people to be found. Mass graves are still waiting to be excavated. Bodies still in unmarked graves. Mothers still waiting to hear of what happened to their sons. Women still unable to birth children because of the rape they suffered. Orphaned children still wondering who their parents were. Some better off not knowing how they were conceived.
Through all that pain and bloodshed I know this. Kosovo is free. Bosnia is free. May those souls rest in peace.

Rroft Kosova.
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Amadeus85
02-19-2010, 09:03 AM
Kosovo belongs to Albanians just like nowadays Birmingham, Leicester and Dearborn belongs to Pakistanis, Indians and Arabs.

But what is more important, both Serbs and Albanians became puppets in a struggle between big imperial powers.
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CosmicPathos
02-19-2010, 09:19 AM
Surprisingly I had a serbian orthodox christian colleague who knew about fasting. he asked me once if I am fasting. Interesting that he knew about Muslim faith.
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-19-2010, 09:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Its called a war. This particular war the Serbian military went and raped, massacred, murdered, pillaged and killed Muslims in various provinces of the former Yugoslavia. In response, Muslims banded together, got themselves some weapons and fought back.

Dont dish it if you cant take it.

Rest in peace Adem, the rest of my family members who were killed as well as the thousands upon thousands upon thousands destroyed by the war.
just ignore this troll sister. the only thing he seems interested in is stirring trouble. just search through his threads and you'll notice he just posts controversial things.

people really ought to get a life.

Kosovo is serbia huh? Go say that to a kosovars face. I cant believe this guy is allowed on this forum with that signature.

Kosovo is KOSOVA THE LAND OF THE ALBANIAN MUSLIMS. Yesterday alhamdullah was our independence day celebration. Hope you got a chance to join in the festivities!!! They were mighty fun.
he's not man enough to. cowards like him just sign on Islamic forums, try to stir trouble by being subliminal in their posts because they arent man enough to face the music anywhere else. i dont know, im inclined to think they do that for an ego boost. poor things, who knows, they probably cant stand up to anyone else, so their best bet is behind a screen.

they think they go un-noticed, but they make a good laughing stock.

we've had a few trolls like this in the past here, and it seems like we still do.
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CosmicPathos
02-19-2010, 09:38 AM
yea al-induinisy is a shady character.
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Al-Indunisiy
02-19-2010, 01:47 PM
:sl:

I am (perceived as being) shadey because:

1. I seldom want to voice my opinion.
2. I do post alot of controversial threads.

My mind is like a tug of war between differing ideas, wherein I thrive in other peoples thoughts and opinion. The more controversial the material the more my curiosity grow and the more I am inclined to listen.
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 02:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
so a country is fighting those who left their families to come to help them from Saudi?
No, they are fighting against ultra-religious divisive communities that consist of natives mostly. the 90s mujahedeen may have inspired them though, as well as Saudi Arabia tunneling millions to Bosnia to fund religious schools.
The Arab fighters were dealt with a few years ago. Those perceived as a threat to the country were stripped of their citizenship.
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 02:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Like I said, it doesnt matter who started it now, the end result is this: Kosovo is free and it is now the third country in Europe that is predominantly Muslim alongside Bosnia and Albania. It will never be Serbia. The Kingdom of Serbia is dead. If the entire country itself ceased to exist I know many a bosnian and a albanian who wouldnt shed a tear. We are still waiting for some of our people to be found. Mass graves are still waiting to be excavated. Bodies still in unmarked graves. Mothers still waiting to hear of what happened to their sons. Women still unable to birth children because of the rape they suffered. Orphaned children still wondering who their parents were. Some better off not knowing how they were conceived.
Through all that pain and bloodshed I know this. Kosovo is free. Bosnia is free. May those souls rest in peace.

Rroft Kosova.
Do you support the idea of greater Albania?
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 02:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Kosovo belongs to Albanians just like nowadays Birmingham, Leicester and Dearborn belongs to Pakistanis, Indians and Arabs.

But what is more important, both Serbs and Albanians became puppets in a struggle between big imperial powers.
Nope. A better example would be Danzig. To my knowledge it was entirely German less than one hundred years ago, and now it's polish. Kosovo has majority Albanian for the last 200 years.
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 02:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Surprisingly I had a serbian orthodox christian colleague who knew about fasting. he asked me once if I am fasting. Interesting that he knew about Muslim faith.
What's interesting about it?
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
oops.------------------------------
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sister herb
02-19-2010, 02:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
just ignore this troll sister. the only thing he seems interested in is stirring trouble. just search through his threads and you'll notice he just posts controversial things.
:sl:

Good advice sister. Better to do so.
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JoshuaD
02-19-2010, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
i believe genocide of serbians who KILLED Muslims is perfectly Islamic.
Muslims massacred Serbs hundreds of years before Serb genocides, following your logic Serb actions were justified.

format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Kosovo is serbia huh? Go say that to a kosovars face. I cant believe this guy is allowed on this forum with that signature.

Kosovo is KOSOVA THE LAND OF THE ALBANIAN MUSLIMS. Yesterday alhamdullah was our independence day celebration. Hope you got a chance to join in the festivities!!! They were mighty fun.
Kosovo was and always will be Serbian.

format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Well, no its not. Kosova is KOSOVA and the Serbs who say otherwise can go cry in the corner. RROFT KOSOVA!!! 2/17/08
Israel is Israel and Arabs who say otherwise can go cry in a corner. Oh wait, it's ok for Muslims to occupy land but not for Jews to do the same, silly me.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
just ignore this troll sister. the only thing he seems interested in is stirring trouble. just search through his threads and you'll notice he just posts controversial things.

people really ought to get a life.
I haven't posted anything controversial, the only topic remotely controversial was where people claimed without any evidence that Israel was harvesting organs in Haiti, I pointed out there was no proof and shortly after an admin closed the thread as it provided no proof.
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Amadeus85
02-19-2010, 04:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Nope. A better example would be Danzig. To my knowledge it was entirely German less than one hundred years ago, and now it's polish. Kosovo has majority Albanian for the last 200 years.
Sir, take a little history lesson please. Danzig has been a slavic city since about 8th century A.D. Germans appeared in Danzig just like Turks in Serbia.
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CosmicPathos
02-19-2010, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Muslims massacred Serbs hundreds of years before Serb genocides, following your logic Serb actions were justified.



Kosovo was and always will be Serbian.



Israel is Israel and Arabs who say otherwise can go cry in a corner. Oh wait, it's ok for Muslims to occupy land but not for Jews to do the same, silly me.



I haven't posted anything controversial, the only topic remotely controversial was where people claimed without any evidence that Israel was harvesting organs in Haiti, I pointed out there was no proof and shortly after an admin closed the thread as it provided no proof.
I am not aware of much historical facts hence I cannot comment who started it. But since my allegiance is to Muslims, my gut reaction is that they would not commit such atrocities. The kaafir has to start it.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-19-2010, 06:32 PM
KOSOVO BELONGS TO THE ALBANIAN PEOPLE get over it. Go in the corner and cry some more about it.

Ha, you bring up the Israeli issue? That conflict is immensely different.

Rroft Kosova!!!! Death to all the serbs who murdered innocent muslims!
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AlbanianMuslim
02-19-2010, 06:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Do you support the idea of greater Albania?
No I dont. I admire the rich history of the Illyrian people and how there used to be an empire but things change. History is always evolving. So no I do not think a greater Albania is even a possibility without thousands of people dying which I do not want to happen.

Had the serbs treated the albanian with respect and allowed them to live in peace, Kosovo may have remained part of Yugoslavia for much longer and if it did eventually secede it would have done so in peace, but the Serb government and military didnt want it that way. Instead, they went into Bosnia and began slaughtering people like cattle. Next came Kosovo. Now they pay the price.
Montenegro anyone? The minorities there were not subjected to the level of violence the way people were elsewhere so when Montenegro declared independence it was far more peaceful.

Kosovo is for the albanian muslims! rroft kosova!
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Froggy
02-19-2010, 06:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Ha, you bring up the Israeli issue? That conflict is immensely different.
How different?
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AlbanianMuslim
02-19-2010, 06:51 PM
I dont have the time or patience to get into the complexities of the israeli/palestinian issue, someone else can take a stab at that.

Anywho...heres some more reading material for those who would like to know more about the Serb war crimes since my friend Joshua enjoys it so much:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-1506525.html

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-20378538.html

http://www.hrw.org/en/node/79115

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/03/18/wo...l?pagewanted=1

http://original.antiwar.com/malic/20...osovo-burning/

One of the worst massacres: http://www.illyrians.org/jashari.html
Rest in peace adem jashari!

http://www.bookcase.com/~claudia/mt/...es/000812.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Genocide

http://www.columbia.edu/itc/journali...e/p-10241.html
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JoshuaD
02-19-2010, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
I dont have the time or patience to get into the complexities of the israeli/palestinian issue, someone else can take a stab at that.

Anywho...heres some more reading material for those who would like to know more about the Serb war crimes since my friend Joshua enjoys it so much:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4012043.stm

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ne...for-war-crimes

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc8_1215294273

http://www.jahu.net/video/video/RnAGkg0XVng/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3254890.stm

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/handzar/handzar.htm

http://www.kosovo.net/spiegelflot.html

http://www.kosovo.net/gracko_victims.jpg

http://www.kosovo.net/default2.html
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Supreme
02-19-2010, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
KOSOVO BELONGS TO THE ALBANIAN PEOPLE get over it. Go in the corner and cry some more about it.
Um... hi.

Just wanted to point out the obvious.

Kosovo does not belong to the Albanians, it belongs to the Kosovans. You're thinking of Albania, in which case, yes, it does very much belong to the Albanians.
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جوري
02-20-2010, 12:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
I am not aware of much historical facts hence I cannot comment who started it. But since my allegiance is to Muslims, my gut reaction is that they would not commit such atrocities. The kaafir has to start it.

Indeed.. The Turks have a different account of said events and I'd recommend you get your knowledge of history from proper sources...

:w:
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 12:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Um... hi.

Just wanted to point out the obvious.

Kosovo does not belong to the Albanians, it belongs to the Kosovans. You're thinking of Albania, in which case, yes, it does very much belong to the Albanians.
Kosovars are albanians and during the independance festivities there were more albanian than kosovar flags.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 01:00 AM
90% of Kosovars are ethnic Albanians, hence kosovo belongs to the Albanians of Kosovo.
The stars on the flag represent the minorities I believe, or so I was told.


Rroft kosova! I cant wait to go this summer and see how much more my city has grown since the last time. Every year I go things get better and better and I love seeing the growth. After the war I hadnt been there for almost 6 years, when we finally went back I barely recognized my city, because when I left it it was just a town! So much growth. Kosovo has a long way to go but I know they will make it.

Inshallah things will only get better and better.
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Supreme
02-20-2010, 01:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Kosovars are albanians and during the independance festivities there were more albanian than kosovar flags.
Another obvious question:

Why not become part of Albania? Why stay independent?
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 01:07 AM
That is a good question, however, there are many cultural differences as well as dialect differences in language. We share a common bond with them, but the people of Albania are in so many ways different than the ethnic Albanians of Kosovo.

An albanian from way down in southern albania can barely understand the way an albanian from Montenegro or Kosovo speaks. Vice versa. There is also differences in other things.
Ofcourse these arent the biggest reasons, but the kosovar people have a sense of independence from greater Albania despite the strong bond.

Its kind of like Serbia with Russia. They have a strong bond with each other and support each other through thick and thin, but Serbia will not join up and become part of Russia.
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Another obvious question:

Why not become part of Albania? Why stay independent?
Some undoubtedly want Greater Albania but it's not a very popular plan, perceived to separatist, racis and whatnot. The 'liberation' of Kosovo was a better move.
Not all Kosovars support Greater Albania and in in the 90s Kosovo officials, to my knowledge, didn't call a unification with Albania.
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 01:13 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
90% of Kosovars are ethnic Albanians, hence kosovo belongs to the Albanians of Kosovo.
The stars on the flag represent the minorities I believe, or so I was told.


Rroft kosova! I cant wait to go this summer and see how much more my city has grown since the last time. Every year I go things get better and better and I love seeing the growth. After the war I hadnt been there for almost 6 years, when we finally went back I barely recognized my city, because when I left it it was just a town! So much growth. Kosovo has a long way to go but I know they will make it.

Inshallah things will only get better and better.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Albanians live in separate states because Kosovo was a part of Serbia /and Montenegro, so already free from the Turks, when Albania declared independence from the Ottomans?
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 01:23 AM
Good question, I am not entirely sure of that Froggy so I wont answer. I can look it up though I have way too many books on the Balkan countries. I should know this but being a History major, sometimes I have to toss stuff out of my brain to fit new stuff in. :)

I will say this though. Each Balkan country has a rich history, most of them have histories intertwined with one another. Serbia has a lot of historical stake in Kosovo, Albania has a lot of historical stake in Kosovo and Montenegro. It goes on and on. Each country was also subjected to be under the Ottoman Empire which further complicated issues and relations between each country. It didnt help when the Austro-Hungarians took over parts of the Balkans either.

My point is, and I know it may seem I hate all Serbs. I dont. I hate the ones who committed crimes. I also do not deny that Albanians and Bosnians fought a dirty war. Theres a quote I love, the first casualty of war is the truth. After that, every beautiful thing comes under attack. Friendships are destroyed. There were so many Serbs who were good friends with Albanians and Bosnians, now they are enemies or strangers.
After a war like that, after the crimes committed in Kosovo and Bosnia, it is absurd to for anyone to believe that the Kosovar people could possibly ever live under Serbia again. Thats the point of why I believe Kosovo should be its own country. The people were subjected to hell, and they have earned their right to be free and independent.
My fathers side is from Montenegro. We dont mind it at all, we love that country too. In this century, although there have been instances of injustice towards Albanians in Montenegro, it isnt anywhere near the level of Kosovo. That is why Albanians in Montenegro live peaceful prosperous lives. I could go on forever and ever, as could any Croat, Bosnian, Serb etc. about this issue. It is so complex, it would take years and years of study to fully understand the magnitude of it all.

Froggy, a book that I think you will enjoy is called Neighbors at War edited by Joel M. Halpern and David A. Kideckel. It is a book filled with articles, stories, and the like by Serbs, Bosnians, Albanians and foreigners who were in the Balkans before, during and after the war. Very eye opening.
Reply

Froggy
02-20-2010, 01:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Good question, I am not entirely sure of that Froggy so I wont answer. I can look it up though I have way too many books on the Balkan countries. I should know this but being a History major, sometimes I have to toss stuff out of my brain to fit new stuff in. :)

I will say this though. Each Balkan country has a rich history, most of them have histories intertwined with one another. Serbia has a lot of historical stake in Kosovo, Albania has a lot of historical stake in Kosovo and Montenegro. It goes on and on. Each country was also subjected to be under the Ottoman Empire which further complicated issues and relations between each country. It didnt help when the Austro-Hungarians took over parts of the Balkans either.

My point is, and I know it may seem I hate all Serbs. I dont. I hate the ones who committed crimes. I also do not deny that Albanians and Bosnians fought a dirty war. Theres a quote I love, the first casualty of war is the truth. After that, every beautiful thing comes under attack. Friendships are destroyed. There were so many Serbs who were good friends with Albanians and Bosnians, now they are enemies or strangers.
After a war like that, after the crimes committed in Kosovo and Bosnia, it is absurd to for anyone to believe that the Kosovar people could possibly ever live under Serbia again. Thats the point of why I believe Kosovo should be its own country. The people were subjected to hell, and they have earned their right to be free and independent.
My fathers side is from Montenegro. We dont mind it at all, we love that country too. In this century, although there have been instances of injustice towards Albanians in Montenegro, it isnt anywhere near the level of Kosovo. That is why Albanians in Montenegro live peaceful prosperous lives. I could go on forever and ever, as could any Croat, Bosnian, Serb etc. about this issue. It is so complex, it would take years and years of study to fully understand the magnitude of it all.

Froggy, a book that I think you will enjoy is called Neighbors at War edited by Joel M. Halpern and David A. Kideckel. It is a book filled with articles, stories, and the like by Serbs, Bosnians, Albanians and foreigners who were in the Balkans before, during and after the war. Very eye opening.
A very good post and I agree completely, I said before Kosovo should be independent, no matter if it is declared illegal by the int court of justice. And sadly, I believe it won't prosper in the next decades, mainly due to Opposition from Russia and China.
I'll be sure to look at it, thank you very much. :)

What is your opinion on Albanian terrorism in Macedonia?
Reply

AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 01:56 AM
Oh goodness, another extremely difficult conflict to digest. I do not deny there are crimes committed on both ends. The albanians in Macedonia have suffered a lot of injustice, as a result many grow up feeling a lot of animosity towards the state. They have many times resorted to violent means in which to express that animosity and anger they have. I do not agree with their use of violence to speak out, but I also do not agree with the Macedonian governments treatment of Albanians in many area. BBC did a piece on this issue as well. Showing both sides of course. One village in Macedonia that was predominantly Albanian had their water lines cut off by the state, so they had to drive miles away to fill buckets and basins to bring water back to the village. Things like that bring violence because they cause frustration and anger towards the state. If the government treated the Albanians with more respect and treated them as citizens, there would be far less violence on the part of the Albanians. But, like I said, there are so many sides to the issue.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 02:01 AM
One thing I have learned in my studies of History is that the leaders of countries who are designated "world leaders" regardless of whether they had good or bad intentions have carved up the world in so many ways that every single corner of the globe that has conflict, the conflict has originated in some way from that carving. Countries taking this place or that, people being thrown around between empires. On and on and on. The civilians get caught in the crossfire, while the leaders sit back, arms crossed, one leg over the other, a glass of scotch and a cigar in their mouth.
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-20-2010, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by JoshuaD
Israel is Israel and Arabs who say otherwise can go cry in a corner. Oh wait, it's ok for Muslims to occupy land but not for Jews to do the same, silly me.
silly you indeed.

I haven't posted anything controversial, the only topic remotely controversial was where people claimed without any evidence that Israel was harvesting organs in Haiti, I pointed out there was no proof and shortly after an admin closed the thread as it provided no proof.
that quote wasn't in reference to you.
Reply

Froggy
02-20-2010, 01:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Oh goodness, another extremely difficult conflict to digest. I do not deny there are crimes committed on both ends. The albanians in Macedonia have suffered a lot of injustice, as a result many grow up feeling a lot of animosity towards the state. They have many times resorted to violent means in which to express that animosity and anger they have. I do not agree with their use of violence to speak out, but I also do not agree with the Macedonian governments treatment of Albanians in many area. BBC did a piece on this issue as well. Showing both sides of course. One village in Macedonia that was predominantly Albanian had their water lines cut off by the state, so they had to drive miles away to fill buckets and basins to bring water back to the village. Things like that bring violence because they cause frustration and anger towards the state. If the government treated the Albanians with more respect and treated them as citizens, there would be far less violence on the part of the Albanians. But, like I said, there are so many sides to the issue.
Where did the violence towards Albanians stem from? Did MAcedonians simply hate them, was it religious? Did they threaten the integrity of republic of Macedonia (wanted independence)? Are you sure it was the Macedonians who started it all?
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 01:51 PM
As for Kosovo, I found out Serbia declared they will respect the decision of the intl court of justice regardless of the outcome.
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Amadeus85
02-20-2010, 02:20 PM
The hatred between Serbs and Bosniaks and Albanians, seem to be rooted deeply in history. First reason seems to be the acceptance of some Serbs (Bosniaks) and Albanians the religion of occupants (Turkey). Then later, I know that in XIXth century, during uprisings of christian peasants in Bosnia and Serbia, Turkey didnt sent own army to defeat the uprisings (as Turks were fighting with Russians on and on) and they were sending Albanian and Bosniak muslims (highlanders) to fight against christian peasants. Very often highlanders behaved brutally, murdering whole villages.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 02:46 PM
Religion does play a huge part but it isnt the #1 reason. Land, land, land. Religion I feel is merely a tool for the leaders to use when they want to fire people up and cause conflict.
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Religion does play a huge part but it isnt the #1 reason. Land, land, land. Religion I feel is merely a tool for the leaders to use when they want to fire people up and cause conflict.
Neither Muslims nor Bosnians were particularly religious at the start of the conflict. Religion was more of a cultural thing tied to ones nation.
Muslim was, and still is, a nationality in Yugoslavia/BIH.
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Grofica
02-20-2010, 04:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/cryfromthegrave/

I encourage EVERYONE to watch the film Cry From the Grave about the Serbs massacre of the Bosnian muslims in Srebrenica.

That movie is wow... :cry::cry:


if i remember right it won like a million awards too... from all over the globe.
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Grofica
02-20-2010, 04:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Religion does play a huge part but it isnt the #1 reason. Land, land, land. Religion I feel is merely a tool for the leaders to use when they want to fire people up and cause conflict.
I agree wtih Albanian Muslim... It was about land well i think it was about a few different things but it wasnt about religion...

format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Neither Muslims nor Bosnians were particularly religious at the start of the conflict.
that not much different then 90% of people in the states...


format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
Religion was more of a cultural thing tied to ones nation. Muslim was, and still is, a nationality in Yugoslavia/BIH.
Yes and no... its not something people talk about, like EVER.


Why is it a bunch of people who have not studied this subject in depth or were not there are the ones who always want to bring this up????
:raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::r aging::raging:
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 04:30 PM
I was there plenty of times.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-20-2010, 11:31 PM
Actually, in many place in Bosnia and Macedonia, those who were muslim were ardent followers. In kosovo and Albania as well as in Montenegro muslims had become lax, partly from the communist regimes tearing down Masjids and burning Korans and partly from the political brainwashing that went on.
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Froggy
02-20-2010, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Actually, in many place in Bosnia and Macedonia, those who were muslim were ardent followers. In kosovo and Albania as well as in Montenegro muslims had become lax, partly from the communist regimes tearing down Masjids and burning Korans and partly from the political brainwashing that went on.
There were definitely very few religious people, there aren't than many now anway, but most people who are, Serbs and Bosniaks and less so croats, got religious after and because of the war.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-21-2010, 01:39 AM
Im not sure where you get some of these "facts" you speak of. A lot of people are religious in all those parts now. My father became religious right before the war broke out, and many followed afterwards. You cant possibly know if people are or arent unless you go to Kosovo and see for yourself. Since the war, many masjids have been built and surprise surprise...

its not the old people who fill them! In Albanian especially, there is a movement going on amongst the young people very similar to what happened in Egjypt, they are finding Islam and embracing it in large numbers. Last year when I was there, the masjid I went to in Durres was over flowing with people whereas 10 years ago it was only half full.
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Froggy
02-21-2010, 01:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
Im not sure where you get some of these "facts" you speak of. A lot of people are religious in all those parts now. My father became religious right before the war broke out, and many followed afterwards. You cant possibly know if people are or arent unless you go to Kosovo and see for yourself. Since the war, many masjids have been built and surprise surprise...

its not the old people who fill them! In Albanian especially, there is a movement going on amongst the young people very similar to what happened in Egjypt, they are finding Islam and embracing it in large numbers. Last year when I was there, the masjid I went to in Durres was over flowing with people whereas 10 years ago it was only half full.
I was talking about Bosnia not Kosovo. I've never been to Kosovo and I don't know that much Kosovars, they're much more reserved and into themselves than Bosnians. Could be due to the language. They're the conspiring type.
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Grofica
02-21-2010, 01:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
I was there plenty of times.
When???? which century????


format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
I was talking about Bosnia not Kosovo. I've never been to Kosovo and I don't know that much Kosovars, they're much more reserved and into themselves than Bosnians. Could be due to the language. They're the conspiring type.

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north_malaysian
02-22-2010, 03:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
65 countries in 2 years have recognized it, and it will continue to grow as the international community sees Kosovos growth. http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/
My country recognised Kosova and our ambassador was kicked out from Belgrade because of that. I think Malaysia will always support Kosova! :D
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north_malaysian
02-22-2010, 03:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
There were definitely very few religious people, there aren't than many now anway, but most people who are, Serbs and Bosniaks and less so croats, got religious after and because of the war.
there are some Albanians from Albania and Kosova living here and they're quite religious.
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Al-Indunisiy
02-22-2010, 07:53 AM
:sl:

My country recognised Kosova and our ambassador was kicked out from Belgrade because of that. I think Malaysia will always support Kosova!
Ok, this might be a little embarasing for not knowing my own nations stance. But, how about Indonesia?
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CosmicPathos
02-22-2010, 07:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
:sl:



Ok, this might be a little embarasing for not knowing my own nations stance. But, how about Indonesia?
Indonesians first need to stop sale of Playboy magazines on its streets.
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Froggy
02-23-2010, 12:44 AM
15 out of 57 OIC states have recognized Kosovo.
6 out of 22 Arab League states have recognized Kosovo.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-23-2010, 03:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Froggy
I was talking about Bosnia not Kosovo. I've never been to Kosovo and I don't know that much Kosovars, they're much more reserved and into themselves than Bosnians. Could be due to the language. They're the conspiring type.
That is one of the most ridiculous and insulting things I have read on this forum regarding my own people. Kosovars are in the top 5 most hospitable people in the Balkans. While ever other country protested the arrival of any Americans in their country, Kosovars welcomed the Americans with open arms and hospitality. Now we have their backing in everything and anything.
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north_malaysian
02-24-2010, 07:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
:sl:



Ok, this might be a little embarasing for not knowing my own nations stance. But, how about Indonesia?
Indonesia doesnt recognise Kosova... maybe your leaders are afraid that the same thing can happen to Papua, South Maluku or Aceh Darussalam.
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Froggy
02-24-2010, 05:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AlbanianMuslim
That is one of the most ridiculous and insulting things I have read on this forum regarding my own people. Kosovars are in the top 5 most hospitable people in the Balkans. While ever other country protested the arrival of any Americans in their country, Kosovars welcomed the Americans with open arms and hospitality. Now we have their backing in everything and anything.
I'm talking about Kosovars in my country and it's pbvious you'd welcome them, they supported your cessecion from Serbia and support you overall. People welcome other people when the latter support them and don't treat them badly. It happened on an incredibly large scale at the end of world war 2. Since then Amercians haven't than anything good for most of Europe, every single administration has treated the continent with disrespect as in a way Europe should do everything America wants.
And I'm not so sure America supports you purely on moral reasons..
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