Halal burgers are discrimination - France

[Asiyaah]

Salaam.

This is outrageous. :raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::raging::r aging:

A French council has lodged a complaint against a fast food chain that serves only meat that conforms with Islamic dietary laws at a local branch.


Read more:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8524056.stm

[Muezzin]

Is this the only burger chain in the whole of France?

What a (cunning, fear-mongering) fool this particular politician is. Can't he just waste council money in the traditional way, by resurfacing perfectly flat roads?

[Froggy]

This is incredibly ridiculous.
Vegetarian restaurants all over the world discriminate meat-eaters then.

[Supreme]

I went to Hyde Park today, in London. Anyone who's been there will know the overwhelming Muslim population. They have Islamic shops, Arabic signs and Subway even has a notice in it saying it sells Halal. Well, I thought about it: would I mind eating Halal beef or Halal chicken? I deduced I actually couldn't care less whether it's Halal or not, it most likely tastes the same. So yeah, ridiculous.

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[aadil77]

This is the kind of stuff that can really tick you off, its discrimintation that they're picking on halal food places and not kosher or vegetarian joints

[nocturnal]

I don't think they're picking on the fact that the outlet is retailing Halal foodstuffs, but just that in doing so, the company has moved to withdraw all non-Halal meat which is what has sparked the controversy.

I think what they're calling for is Halal food, alongside that which was there before it. It does make sense really. That way it caters for the whole community.

[aadil77]

I don't think they're picking on the fact that the outlet is retailing Halal foodstuffs, but just that in doing so, the company has moved to withdraw all non-Halal meat which is what has sparked the controversy.

I think what they're calling for is Halal food, alongside that which was there before it. It does make sense really. That way it caters for the whole community.

I'm not sure but when mcdonalds had similar plans, they said that all halal ones would be within range of a non-halal food place. Halal can't be cooked alongside non-halal due to contamination, I know because most takeaways don't give a crap about hygiene and cooking standards

[The_Prince]

lol this is good, from now on all Muslims living in the west can also complain that virtually all resturants are discriminatory towards Muslims because they dont offer a halal menu, now thats discrimination dont you think? Muslims make up the second largest faith in Europe, and they the fastest growing demograph, so why dont resturants start to conform with this reality and serve halal food in every single resturant? i say discrimination!!!!!!!!!!!! why are Muslims forced to eat from one none-halal menu only? no fair.

oh yes, two can play this game.

[nocturnal]

Well, if they can't give the Muslim community firm assurances that such clearly separated cooking practices between Halal and Non-halal food will be implemented, then perhaps they ought to decide upon one option. Either stick with Halal foods only, or revert back to previous company policy and altogether withdraw Halal products.

Im sure the Muslims there have their own butcheries and restaurants just like we have numerous amounts of them in the UK.

[nocturnal]

Prince, that's over-simplifying the issue. The point is that Non-Muslims eat products such as Pork, which from what i read in the paper about this, is the major contentious point. According to me, most Non-Muslims don't mind buying Halal meat, even my local butcher tells me that all the time. To them its the same. And understandably so.

But in a Secular country like France, you can't start issuing directives that all restaurants start stocking halal? then you're going to get Jews demanding a Kosher menu everywhere, Vegans demanding a total ban on meat, etc? It all ends in a rather sorry state of affairs.

[aadil77]

Well, if they can't give the Muslim community firm assurances that such clearly separated cooking practices between Halal and Non-halal food will be implemented, then perhaps they ought to decide upon one option. Either stick with Halal foods only, or revert back to previous company policy and altogether withdraw Halal products.

Im sure the Muslims there have their own butcheries and restaurants just like we have numerous amounts of them in the UK.

I personally wouldn't buy halal food from a non-muslim food chain, mainly cause of cooking practices and animal slaughter methods, we can't be sure if it is actually halal.

Its best for muslims to stick to their own restaurents, I'm sure theirs plenty around

[Dagless]

I don't think they're picking on the fact that the outlet is retailing Halal foodstuffs, but just that in doing so, the company has moved to withdraw all non-Halal meat which is what has sparked the controversy.

I think what they're calling for is Halal food, alongside that which was there before it. It does make sense really. That way it caters for the whole community.

So what though? If the company doesn't want to serve bacon at those branches its their choice. Not all shops carry the same range. Its silly to accuse a shop of discrimination because they don't stock what you want. I might have to complain about McDonalds not selling pheasant.

[The_Prince]

Prince, that's over-simplifying the issue. The point is that Non-Muslims eat products such as Pork, which from what i read in the paper about this, is the major contentious point. According to me, most Non-Muslims don't mind buying Halal meat, even my local butcher tells me that all the time. To them its the same. And understandably so.

But in a Secular country like France, you can't start issuing directives that all restaurants start stocking halal? then you're going to get Jews demanding a Kosher menu everywhere, Vegans demanding a total ban on meat, etc? It all ends in a rather sorry state of affairs.

thats the point, if this guy wants to play his game, then everyone else can, Muslims should start to play the game too and open up a pandoras box with everyone demanding their own types of menu's and resturants. :D

[Supreme]

lol this is good, from now on all Muslims living in the west can also complain that virtually all resturants are discriminatory towards Muslims because they dont offer a halal menu, now thats discrimination dont you think? Muslims make up the second largest faith in Europe, and they the fastest growing demograph, so why dont resturants start to conform with this reality and serve halal food in every single resturant? i say discrimination!!!!!!!!!!!! why are Muslims forced to eat from one none-halal menu only? no fair.

oh yes, two can play this game.

Actually, some resteraunts do offer Halal. Obviously don't expect a grill that serves up a full breakfast with sausages and bacon to start adopting it any time soon, but Subway is a good example.

[Sawdah]

I just saw this vid on the halal burgers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oH22N7zFU4 (it's in french) it's actually unbelievable...

[nocturnal]

So what though? If the company doesn't want to serve bacon at those branches its their choice. Not all shops carry the same range. Its silly to accuse a shop of discrimination because they don't stock what you want. I might have to complain about McDonalds not selling pheasant.

Point taken. Every company should have the right and freedom to set corporate policy as they see fit. If stocking Halal foods only for a sizeable Muslim population is what best serves their commercial interests and pleases the local Muslim community, then i suppose it's a mutually beneficial decision.

But i guess on the other hand what has outraged the naysayers is that this particular company has been operating a long time selling Pork and other sorts of haram products to the non-Muslim community and the suddeness with which it has been withdrawn has ticked them off. But like you said, it was their business decision, and they have every right to take such decisions.

[The_Prince]

Actually, some resteraunts do offer Halal. Obviously don't expect a grill that serves up a full breakfast with sausages and bacon to start adopting it any time soon, but Subway is a good example.

some?!!!! SOMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why not all? thats discrimination!

[nocturnal]

You know from the point of view of the Non-Muslims, with respect to the whole "it makes business sense" arguement, they could just as easily invert the whole thing and say, what if we as Muslims had a local outlet that specialised in providing high quality Halal foods and was a firmly established feature of the local community for a long time only to out of the blue experience a pretty stunning volte face and change in tack prompted by a business decision taken to start selling bacon? Let's be honest, that would rankle all of us. So, in that sense, we shouldn't apply double-standards.

[Froggy]

You know from the point of view of the Non-Muslims, with respect to the whole "it makes business sense" arguement, they could just as easily invert the whole thing and say, what if we as Muslims had a local outlet that specialised in providing high quality Halal foods and was a firmly established feature of the local community for a long time only to out of the blue experience a pretty stunning volte face and change in tack prompted by a business decision taken to start selling bacon? Let's be honest, that would rankle all of us. So, in that sense, we shouldn't apply double-standards.

If Muslims compalined, they'd probably be accused of many things.

[Dagless]

You know from the point of view of the Non-Muslims, with respect to the whole "it makes business sense" arguement, they could just as easily invert the whole thing and say, what if we as Muslims had a local outlet that specialised in providing high quality Halal foods and was a firmly established feature of the local community for a long time only to out of the blue experience a pretty stunning volte face and change in tack prompted by a business decision taken to start selling bacon? Let's be honest, that would rankle all of us. So, in that sense, we shouldn't apply double-standards.

It would be annoying but we'd just go to another shop. If there is a market then someone will be selling it. Discrimination doesn't come into it.

[AlbanianMuslim]

France you say? Ha, not surprised.

[Maryan0]

Liberté! Egalité! Fraternité!

[Supreme]

Yeah, it should be changed to:

Snails! Islamophobia! Surrender!

[AlbanianMuslim]

;D so funny.

[Maryan0]

Yeah, it should be changed to:

Snails! Islamophobia! Surrender!

France has gone off the deepend, they blame their loss of identity on a minority when in reality it's globalization and their kids just not caring about French values anymore. Everybody should move to Canada, we are somewhat free here...
*lol at the snails
Salam

[جوري]

Yeah, it should be changed to:

Snails! Islamophobia! Surrender!

That was quite funny..
you should include something about the Olympics in there.. they are really such sour crouts when they lose .. everyone else gets up congratulates the winner, smiles is a good sports except for the french!

[AlbanianMuslim]

France needs to stop whining and start having more babies if they want France to still have French people. Minorities are having 5 or more kids. French couples have either chosen not to have any or have 1 to 3.

[nocturnal]

It would be annoying but we'd just go to another shop. If there is a market then someone will be selling it. Discrimination doesn't come into it.

I don't know man, you'd have to be pretty rigidly nonchalant to still believe that in such a kind of scenario, where Halal products have been withdrawn afer years of sales, the local Muslim community would simply say "oh well, it was good while it lasted" and move on to other outlets without at least raising some sort of formal complaint about it. I do agree with you that discrimination doesn't really come into it, it was a decision taken by the company in question to enhance its profit margins, but for the locals it would be quite difficult to conceive of it that way.

[Dagless]

I don't know man, you'd have to be pretty rigidly nonchalant to still believe that in such a kind of scenario, where Halal products have been withdrawn afer years of sales, the local Muslim community would simply say "oh well, it was good while it lasted" and move on to other outlets without at least raising some sort of formal complaint about it. I do agree with you that discrimination doesn't really come into it, it was a decision taken by the company in question to enhance its profit margins, but for the locals it would be quite difficult to conceive of it that way.

Stuff like this has already happened though. Some supermarkets here stocked halal meat and then stopped. Nobody said a word.
I used to love a particular type of sweet when I was younger, but my newsagents stopped stocking it. I didn't take it as a personal insult.

[abdulali]

Salaam to all. I recently read an article below on the BBC:

A French council has lodged a complaint against a fast food chain that serves only meat that conforms with Islamic dietary laws at a local branch.
The mayor of Roubaix, in northern France, said the halal menu constituted "discrimination" against non-Muslims.
The Roubaix branch is one of several restaurants at which the chain, Quick, took non-halal products and pork off the menu in November.
In Roubaix, Mayor Rene Vandierendonck, a socialist, called for a boycott of the Quick branch, and the town council has filed a complaint for discrimination with a regional court in Lille.
"I'm not bothered by the fact that there is a halal menu," Mr Vandierendonck said.
"But this is going too far because it is the only menu on offer and it has become discrimination."
Quick decided to take a bacon hamburger off the menu at eight of its 350 branches, replacing it with a halal version that comes with smoked turkey.
It said the move was designed to test the "commercial interest and technical feasibility" of introducing halal menus.
The Quick manager responsible for the Roubaix branch said there had been a slight increase in business after the introduction of halal menus and that he had not received complaints from customers, AFP news agency reported.
France is home to Europe's biggest Muslim minority, estimated at more than five million people.
Debate has recently focussed on the Islamic veil, with a French parliamentary committee recommending a partial ban on women wearing Islamic face veils last month.

The mayor says it discriminates against non-muslims. I wonder if the mayor realises what choices muslims have when they go in to McDonalds or other fast food outlets. Even when the vegetarian options are on offer there is still a risk of cross contamination with non-halal foods.

I just feel there is a general feeling of animosity towards muslims. I wonder how others feel and perceive how the media and the non-muslim world portrays Islam.

[sabr*]

ب

سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismillā hir Rahmā nir Rahīm
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Muslims worldwide should discontinue allowing themselves to become the victim. Who cares what non-Muslims think. The Muslim populated countries have an abundance of wealth and continue to squander on useless edifices, buildings, and materialistic endeavors that fail to benefit the population.

Muslim dominated countries who allow their leaders to squander the wealth need to create private halal restaurants. If non-Muslims don't want to eat at restaurants with halal menus it is their choice. The only reason that these non-Muslims are able to protest is because this is a public company.

Just very disconcerting that Muslims have some of the most intelligent, wealthy, faithful, strong willed people and we allow those with less attributes to dominate, alter how we think, feel or control what we do.

abdulali not directed at you but in general.

[abdulali]

I appreciate your reply. Yes you're "who cares". long as muslims have faith and don't bow down to demands that compromise islam.

[nocturnal]

Stuff like this has already happened though. Some supermarkets here stocked halal meat and then stopped. Nobody said a word.
I used to love a particular type of sweet when I was younger, but my newsagents stopped stocking it. I didn't take it as a personal insult.

I think you're looking at this in a very over-simplified manner. We cannot apply the social contexts within which such situations occur here in the UK, and use that to try and make sense of what happend in France. The social dynamics there are significantly different.

Under Sarkozy and his UMP administration, things have taken on a pointedly ardent pro-secular turn. It's evident in the ban on Hijabs in public schools, the move to legislate against the Burkha and now attempts to rein in the activities of business enterprises like the one in question.

If you were to put yourself in the situation of those who are complaining, i personally would see it fit to at least lodge a complaint or petition my local MP which is what many of the locals have done. I suppose the equivalent here would be a local chain like Subway or KFC that without giving notice, withdrew a substantial part of their popular menus that invariably included haram products like bacon, introduced a Halal menu and in one hit marginalized a huge segment of its customer base. I certainly wouldn't think of it as being just a business decision, because businesses in this day and age have corporate AND social responsibilities and they have to be careful to keep in mind local sensibilities.

So to say "just deal with it", isn't really a credible arguement. It's like the local Socialist MP said, no one is asking them not to retail Halal products, but not to do so at the total expense of everything else, including very profitable other products. Even a sort of vestigial amount of the previous offerings would have presumably mollified the local residents.

[barney]

Silly isnt it.
Plenty of burger places for the secular or christian french to go to.

Outright case of discrimination to the shame of France.
Oh by the way, is there any Islamic prohibition on a kuffar eating halal if they wanted to?

[aamirsaab]

....
Oh by the way, is there any Islamic prohibition on a kuffar eating halal if they wanted to?

Nope. Everyone can eat all the halaal food they want. As long as you are paying for it and not stealing it :p.

[Uthman]

Oh by the way, is there any Islamic prohibition on a kuffar eating halal if they wanted to?

aamirsaab answered your questioned but I just wanted to make a grammatical correction. You meant Kaafir which is the singular. Kuffaar is plural.

[Dagless]

If you were to put yourself in the situation of those who are complaining, i personally would see it fit to at least lodge a complaint or petition my local MP which is what many of the locals have done. I suppose the equivalent here would be a local chain like Subway or KFC that without giving notice, withdrew a substantial part of their popular menus that invariably included haram products like bacon, introduced a Halal menu and in one hit marginalized a huge segment of its customer base. I certainly wouldn't think of it as being just a business decision, because businesses in this day and age have corporate AND social responsibilities and they have to be careful to keep in mind local sensibilities.

So to say "just deal with it", isn't really a credible arguement. It's like the local Socialist MP said, no one is asking them not to retail Halal products, but not to do so at the total expense of everything else, including very profitable other products. Even a sort of vestigial amount of the previous offerings would have presumably mollified the local residents.

Subway and KFC can do whatever they like as long as its within the law. If this decision brought corporate gain and was within the bounds of the law then I don't see an issue. If enough people are outraged then they should do what is necessary; get a petition, have a rally, whatever. The point is that they do it for the right reasons, the reason here is not "discrimination against non-muslims". For me that is an outrageous accusation and one which would need proof to substantiate.

[smile]

i do love this company!!!!
QUICK i think

[Froggy]

I remember a few years ago Muslims (I think it was them, it could have been the lefties though) complained when a charitable organisation started giving up pork soup to homeless and poor people in winter time.

[abdulali]

The French mayor trying to claim discrimination for non-muslims against a fast food outlet that stopped selling pork etc and only selling halal burgers has failed :statisfie I see common sense has prevailed.

[barney]

I could actually understand why some Christians might have a problem eating Halal. They probably veiw it as "sacrificed to a different god"

To me a Burger is a Burger: All Burgers are good!

[nocturnal]

I do have to admit Dagless, it's a pretty difficult arguement to refute that you're making. I mean if the company capitulated under the pressure of the Muslim community to introduce a Halal only menu, then perhaps the aggrieved parties would have had a pretty conceivable arguement, but this the company did wilfully and of their own volition, and like you said, it was undisputably within the parameters of the law, so they cannot accuse the company of discrimination, i agree. :)

[Supreme]

I could actually understand why some Christians might have a problem eating Halal. They probably veiw it as "sacrificed to a different god"

To me a Burger is a Burger: All Burgers are good!

Not really. Even if some Christians did think of this, we worship the same God as Muslims, so that point is redundant. If it was sacrifices with pagan gods in mind, I might have a different view...