the babies are sleeping, the farmers, the fishers...

[Dagless]

It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death: and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed. Verily in this are Signs for those who reflect. (39:42)

1) If we are the soul then why can't we remember this when we wake up?
2) How can we dream if the soul is not present?

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did a search but could not find anything similar.

[Lynx]

is it possible that the soul is just the "spark" of life and does not contain the conciousness?

[جوري]

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً {85}
[Pickthal 17:85] They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.

[Dagless]

is it possible that the soul is just the "spark" of life and does not contain the conciousness?

As far as I know it is the soul which gets judged and so it must be us/conscious.

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الرُّوحِ قُلِ الرُّوحُ مِنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّي وَمَا أُوتِيتُم مِّن الْعِلْمِ إِلاَّ قَلِيلاً {85}
[Pickthal 17:85] They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.

Isn't spirit the ruuh? Whereas the above quote is the soul (nafs)?

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[جوري]

Isn't spirit the ruuh? Whereas the above quote is the soul (nafs)?

Ruh has three different meanings in Islam.. which I am yet to find you a translation for:
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2823

nafs is really the 'self'

النفس= n. self, person

http://translation.babylon.com/Arabic/to-English

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Dagless]

Ruh has three different meanings in Islam.. which I am yet to find you a translation for:
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2823

nafs is really the 'self'

النفس= n. self, person

http://translation.babylon.com/Arabic/to-English

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

I can only read arabic (badly), not understand it, and so your first link is wasted on me :( (don't worry about the translation, I guess you've said the important part, ie. the 3 meanings).

edit: and why did you assume I needed a translation huh, I could have been arab ;)

In my verse it is self (which I think is ٱلۡأَنفُسَ ?). In your verse it says spirit which is الرُّو.

So you are saying that essentially these are referring to the same thing? Out of interest what is the third word which has a similar meaning?

I will research more but I read somewhere that the soul (nafs) was us and got judged, whereas the spirit was something different and less info was given about it.

[جوري]

I can only read arabic (badly), not understand it, and so your first link is wasted on me :( (don't worry about the translation, I guess you've said the important part, ie. the 3 meanings).

In my verse it is self (which I think is ٱلۡأَنفُسَ ?). In your verse it says spirit which is الرُّو.

So you are saying that essentially these are referring to the same thing? Out of interest what is the third word which has a similar meaning?

I will research more but I read somewhere that the soul (nafs) was us and got judged, whereas the spirit was something different and less info was given about it.

:sl:
ru7 is the spiritual part of ourselves of which the knowledge of is not known to us.. there are three references to the Ru7 in the Quran, one which applies to the angel Gabriel, then there one which Allah swt uses in the creation of man and one which when departs from man death ensues.

Nafs is really the person.. the conscious part.. when I say nifsi masdooda, means I don't feel like eating or I have no appetite.. it isn't used to denote the spirit..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

[Lynx]

As far as I know it is the soul which gets judged and so it must be us/conscious.

But like, when someone is judged they are done so in the physical that's why judgement day is the day of resurrection. Similarly, it is their body that goes to heaven and Hell not the 'soul'.

The soul as consciousness is more of a platonic idea though taken in by medieval philosophers (Plato gave the first complete definition of soul I believe). Islam does not define it too clearly so wouldn't it be hard to even say the soul is where consciousness is located?

[Dagless]

:sl:
ru7 is the spiritual part of ourselves of which the knowledge of is not known to us.. there are three references to the Ru7 in the Quran, one which applies to the angel Gabriel, then there one which Allah swt uses in the creation of man and one which when departs from man death ensues.

Nafs is really the person.. the conscious part.. when I say nifsi masdooda, means I don't feel like eating or I have no appetite.. it isn't used to denote the spirit..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:

Agreed. The verse I quoted uses "nafs" and not "ruh", so the question remains; why don't we have memory of the night?

But like, when someone is judged they are done so in the physical that's why judgement day is the day of resurrection. Similarly, it is their body that goes to heaven and Hell not the 'soul'.

The soul as consciousness is more of a platonic idea though taken in by medieval philosophers (Plato gave the first complete definition of soul I believe). Islam does not define it too clearly so wouldn't it be hard to even say the soul is where consciousness is located?

When I listed soul, I meant it as nafs (since this is the word used in that verse).

When the ruh is put into the body and acquires certain qualities because of it (can be good or bad), it is then called the nafs (this is taken from Ibn Kathir's explanation).
Nafs = Ruh + Connection to body.
This definition would lead me to believe the nafs is either us or very much of us.

[AhlaamBella]

I have read that sometimes i could be the soul's memores that come as dreams mixed with the thoughts of the indiviual. . .

Don't quote me on this because I'm not entirely sure of the specifics.

You can read up on sleep in detail in "The Dreamer's Handbook By Muhammad Mustafa al-Jibaly. As far as I know it is a very authentic book. The author uses strong hadiths and Ayah throughout the book.

[جوري]

Agreed. The verse I quoted uses "nafs" and not "ruh", so the question remains; why don't we have memory of the night?

who said we don't have memories? Have you ever had a sense of déjà vu? I have always explained that I have traveled there by means non-physical. Also having dreams that occur is 1/40th of prophethood .. so you don't know really what your soul traveling denotes exactly.. I have always taken my dreams that occur to a letter and conversations that have occurred or places that I feel have had before their physical event to denote that my soul knows what my conscious self doesn't.. but then again.. matters of ghyeb really belong with Allah swt. so I can't comment beyond this..

:w: