Homo- conservatism in Great Britain

[Amadeus85]

UK - "conservatives" plan legalization of homosexual marriages.

Nick Herbert, minister of environment in conservative shadow cabint, said that after they win the elections, one of conservatives' priorities will be legalization of marriages of homosexuals and allowing them to adopt children. The conservative minister said this last week in Washington, during the conference "Is there a place for gays in conservatism and conservative politics". The meeting took place in libertarian Cato Institute.

Brittish conservatives, according to their leader, David Cameron, doctrine, want to gain new electorate, by resignation from conservative attitude and focusing on social matters. They want to achieve also support from homosexuals and lesbians. "The gays are not property of Left nor any party" said Herbert recently.

The representer of brittish conservatives said later in "The Metro News" that acceptance of equality programme from gays and lesbians is important also because of the need to push the politics forward. He also admitted that after the won of elections, the conservative goverment would struggle for legalization of homosexual marriages. It is expected also by some religious communities, for example Quakers who want to celebrate the homoexual weddings.

Herbert also said that the major goal of the state is to protect the individual laws of the citizens and protectng them from harm. Thats why heterosexuals can't be treated in special way. The issue of equality is a priority of modern world and the necessary element of modern conservatism.

The conservative minister praised recently conservative leader David Cameron for modernization of the party.

Herbert is a homosexual, he is in a civl union with other man.

http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/aktualnos...iadomosc/5191/


When islam conquers UK (and the question is only when), I will shed no single tear. At least islamic England would respect divine natural law.

[Al-Indunisiy]

:sl:

Oy!

:wa:

[titus]

These laws would not change the way that you practice your religion, so what exactly do you have an issue with?

[Cabdullahi]

UK - "conservatives" plan legalization of homosexual marriages.



http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/aktualnos...iadomosc/5191/


When islam conquers UK (and the question is only when), I will shed no single tear. At least islamic England would respect divine natural law.

Don't ever underestimate the pole....maybe when we implement the divine law you can come and visit us here :)

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[Amadeus85]

Actually is there any UK political mainstream party that doesnt support legalization of sodomite relationships?

[جوري]

they should make laws to legalize incest as well..
why should a brother and sister such this couple:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...y.kateconnolly


not be married?

It is all about consent after all and why should the rest of us care..

[Supreme]

**** the Conservatives and their plans to let two consenting adults to tie the knot!

I dislike the Tories, this is nothing but political bait so that gay couples wanting to get married will unwittingly vote for them. After that, they'll conveniently forget about this, and every other Utopian promise they've made so far before this election, and focus solely on the economy and messing up the social system!

[Predator]

they should make laws to legalize incest as well..
why should a brother and sister such this couple:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...y.kateconnolly


not be married?

It is all about consent after all and why should the rest of us care..

I wouldnt be too suprised if they legalised incest as well especially when its glorified in the bible as well

http://www.answering-christianity.co..._fantasies.htm

[جوري]

I wouldnt be too suprised if they legalised incest as well especially when its glorified in the bible as well

http://www.answering-christianity.co..._fantasies.htm

lol.. nice .. thanks for sharing..
you forget that Lut allegedly also slept with his two daughters after they made him drunk.. stellar characters are god's apostles in the good book!

[cat eyes]

they should make laws to legalize incest as well..
why should a brother and sister such this couple:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...y.kateconnolly


not be married?

It is all about consent after all and why should the rest of us care..

+o( ''Not harming anybody'' they say! how can they explain then that they brought two kids with disabilities into the world... if thats not harming a life i dont know what is

[Nokiacrazi]

Astaghfiruallah!

This is most disgusting. I also heard cases of buggery. Even worse, it does not bear thinking about. I hope this comes about eventually -

Book 38, Number 4448:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death.

Book 38, Number 4449:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone has sexual intercourse with an animal, kill him and kill it along with him. I (Ikrimah) said: I asked him (Ibn Abbas): What offence can be attributed to the animal/ He replied: I think he (the Prophet) disapproved of its flesh being eaten when such a thing had been done to it.

[Skavau]

When islam conquers UK (and the question is only when), I will shed no single tear. At least islamic England would respect divine natural law.

Yes, it is an outrage that a political party does not believe that the rights of a minority should be disregarded or eliminated based on what some people believe that God tells them to do.

And to titus, Amadeus85 believes the whole world should tremble, I mean prosper under divine intervention.

[جوري]

+o( ''Not harming anybody'' they say! how can they explain then that they brought two kids with disabilities into the world... if thats not harming a life i dont know what is

:sl:

they allege their kids are healthy, and technically any two random people coming together run a random risk of having a child with disability .. disease and disabilities never stopped people when all you need is 'consent'.. that is the word I hear often that makes it all OK.. if they don't cringe with homosexuality, they should cringe with incestuous relations .. and frankly with sperm banks and eggs for sale, anyone can potentially marry their brother or sister down the line...

some folks need to define what 'morality and ethics' is outside of religion.. because frankly I am not seeing it!

:w:

[Musliman]

People, please, don't jump to incest, what does incest have to do with homosexuality ? When you are homosexual, you have a very limited choice, same sex penchant only, however incest can be easily avoided as you "can love" people from the opposite sex, who why squeezing between siblings ? ;)

[aamirsaab]

....
And to titus, Amadeus85 believes the whole world should tremble, I mean prosper under divine intervention.

It's already trembling without divine intervention ---> alcohol related deaths are high, teenage pregnancies, divorces and abortions all way up. Hell, we barely just recovered from a global financial ass whooping that humans created. Oh and we're about to make orangutangs extinct.

So much for the modern, god-less age huh?

[Skavau]

It's already trembling without divine intervention ---> alcohol related deaths are high

What do you mean high? A high (or majority) percentage of alcoholics or casual drinkers die? There is a high majority of deaths from alcohol fueled *drunken) incidents?

, teenage pregnancies, divorces and abortions all way up.

What do you mean with the teenage pregnancy line? That a high (majority) number of teenagers become pregnant?

As for divorces, not only have I seem some statistics that suggest that non-religious couples are slightly less likely to divorce than religious couples - there is nothing inherently immoral or wrong with divorce. Sometimes things don't work out. Insistence from religious groups that your first marriage must be your only one does not equal a more prosperous family unit.

Hell, we barely just recovered from a global financial ass whooping that humans created. Oh and we're about to make orangutangs extinct.

So much for the modern, god-less age huh?

So can you think of a better period of time to live in, sir? (In a First-World nation, I mean). Nevermind the alleged corruption and immorality you may perceive by some or all western nations. Are you saying that there exists a better time and place historically than say, a first world nation now? Life expectancy has never been higher. Medical treatment has never been more proficient. The sufferings of millions averted. Quality of life, has likely never been better despite the clear shortcomings.

[aamirsaab]

What do you mean high? A high (or majority) percentage of alcoholics or casual drinkers die? There is a high majority of deaths from alcohol fueled *drunken) incidents?

High means a lot. NHS received over 800,000 alcohol related admissions in 07-08. Source That's 800,000 too many and will probably rise by end of this year.

What do you mean with the teenage pregnancy line? That a high (majority) number of teenagers become pregnant?

Again, high means a lot. 40,000 plus under-18 conceptions in 07, with 50% of that going for abortions. source That's 40,000 too many.

As for divorces, not only have I seem some statistics that suggest that non-religious couples are slightly less likely to divorce than religious couples - there is nothing inherently immoral or wrong with divorce. Sometimes things don't work out. Insistence from religious groups that your first marriage must be your only one does not equal a more prosperous family unit.

Why doesn't it work out? Alcohol related maybe? Adultery maybe? Gambling maybe? Things don't work out in all kinds of relationships, that don't mean you go to divorce. And if it's bad enough to get a divorce after X amounts of years together, I seriously wonder why they got together in the first place.

So can you think of a better period of time to live in, sir? (In a First-World nation, I mean). Nevermind the alleged corruption and immorality you may perceive by some or all western nations. Are you saying that there exists a better time and place historically than say, a first world nation now? Life expectancy has never been higher. Medical treatment has never been more proficient. The sufferings of millions averted. Quality of life, has likely never been better despite the clear shortcomings.

I don't negate any of the positives of today, but when you consider say the strain drunk fools put the NHS under, it feels like a complete waste of time.
What's the point of having the best health care we've ever had if **** near 1 million people drink their lungs out every week? Oh and did I forget to mention that alcohol kills you?

The problem is related to hedonistic lifestyles and how badly the citizens are acting despite all the progress made in health care. Again, this is occurring in the land where religion is as far removed from state as possible.

So for you to then say the world will tremble under theistic ruling, particularly one that actively prohibits such hedonism from society, is laughable.

[★ηαѕιнα★]

**** the Conservatives and their plans to let two consenting adults to tie the knot!

I dislike the Tories, this is nothing but political bait so that gay couples wanting to get married will unwittingly vote for them. After that, they'll conveniently forget about this, and every other Utopian promise they've made so far before this election, and focus solely on the economy and messing up the social system!

I dunno about that...when they planned making it legal her in Holland it got through didnt it? In the US its legal as well in some states. England could just be next on the list (which I think will grow as time goes by). Its one of the signs of judgement day.:hmm:

[Skavau]

in 2007/08 there were 863,300 alcohol related admissions to hospital. This is an increase of 69 per cent since 2002/03 when there were 510,200 alcohol related admissions

We don't, of course, know how many of those 863 thousand admissions were repeat 'offenders' (I suspect many were). Irrespectively, even if alcohol statistics were any number above 1 you would contend they were too much.

Again, high means a lot. 40,000 plus under-18 conceptions in 07, with 50% of that going for abortions. source That's 40,000 too many.

I was somewhat under the impression that Islam, or at least some Muslims did not have as much of an issue with abortion as Christians do. Irrespectively, I have little problem with people have sexual intercourse for pleasure and deliberately taking steps to avoid pregnancy. There is a problem though indeed with under 18 births.

Why doesn't it work out? Alcohol related maybe? Adultery maybe? Gambling maybe? Things don't work out in all kinds of relationships, that don't mean you go to divorce. And if it's bad enough to get a divorce after X amounts of years together, I seriously wonder why they got together in the first place.

Ultimately, it is none of your or the state's business whether or not people's own personal lives with each other work out or not. You can decree alcoholism, gambling addiction, adultery or all other manners of negative as things that detriment people's relationships with one another (as if it wasn't obvious enough) but it is not the point. I would not become an alcoholic, gamble nor engage in adultery and I would even treat anyone I knew who engaged in it with at least persistent suspicion. I would not however insist that the people engaged in it ought to be deemed criminals and their liberty withdrawn for it.

The mere prohibitation of them by Islam, by the way, is not unique, nor does it necessarily establish a good society.

The problem is related to hedonistic lifestyles and how badly the citizens are acting despite all the progress made in health care. Again, this is occurring in the land where religion is as far removed from state as possible.

Click here.

So for you to then say the world will tremble under theistic ruling, particularly one that actively prohibits such hedonism from society, is laughable.

Of course I meant 'tremble' as what I expect would be the reaction of a population ruled by dictators (divinely claimed or otherwise) who think they know best for everyone else.

[Musliman]

I dunno about that...when they planned making it legal her in Holland it got through didnt it? In the US its legal as well in some states. England could just be next on the list (which I think will grow as time goes by). Its one of the signs of judgement day.:hmm:

Really ? What makes you say this ? Only Allah knows the judgement day and we have the "big signs" which have not shown up yet ;)

[Musliman]

Furthermore, AFAIK, same sex marriage was a common practise long ago before the appearance of the Abrahamic religions and has remained since so.

[Dagless]

I dunno about that...when they planned making it legal her in Holland it got through didnt it? In the US its legal as well in some states. England could just be next on the list (which I think will grow as time goes by). Its one of the signs of judgement day.:hmm:

Yeah, thats because its Holland! Sorry but I always think of a Harry Enfield sketch when people talk about laws in Holland :p (only for over 16s).

[Amadeus85]

I wonder what would the Anglican church say about that future legalization.

When the western world legalize sodomite relationships, the progressive, liberal activists won't stop their work, because the battle for Freedom(for all), Equality(for all) and Tolerance(for all) hasn't finished yet.
There is still fascism in Europe, intolerance and medieval attitude.

http://butalidnl.wordpress.com/2006/...dophile-party/

[Nokiacrazi]

I was somewhat under the impression that Islam, or at least some Muslims did not have as much of an issue with abortion as Christians do. Irrespectively, I have little problem with people have sexual intercourse for pleasure and deliberately taking steps to avoid pregnancy. There is a problem though indeed with under 18 births.

Abortion is strictly forbidden in normal circumstances.

For example, eating pork is strictly forbidden in four places.

Surah Al-Baqarah [2:173]
Surah Al-Mā'idah [5:3]
Surah Al-'An`ām [6:45]
Surah An-Naĥl [16:115]

Except, if you are forced to do so. For example, if you are stuck with no food and the only thing you can eat is pork, then it becomes allowed for you for that time only. As soon as you are able to eat normal prescribed foods, then pork becomes forbidden again.

Like this, abortion is strictly forbidden.

Surah Al-'An`ām [6:151]
Surah Al-'Isrā' [17:31]

- unless it poses a threat to the mother, as in Islam life of the mother is more precious as she is who brings the child into being. You cannot sacrifice a greater loss for a smaller loss.

For example, if the mother will die, then the baby must be aborted.

[barney]

UK - "conservatives" plan legalization of homosexual marriages.



http://www.konserwatyzm.pl/aktualnos...iadomosc/5191/


When islam conquers UK (and the question is only when), I will shed no single tear. At least islamic England would respect divine natural law.

You ought to sell this post to the Daily Mail. They could run with it as an example of why Islam is incompatible with multiculturalism.

[★ηαѕιнα★]

Really ? What makes you say this ? Only Allah knows the judgement day and we have the "big signs" which have not shown up yet ;)

Seriously theres a hadieth about this. Does anyone have it by any chance?

[Amadeus85]

You ought to sell this post to the Daily Mail. They could run with it as an example of why Islam is incompatible with multiculturalism.

I am also incompatible with this ;D

[Asiyah3]

Nick Herbert, minister of environment in conservative shadow cabint, said that after they win the elections, one of conservatives' priorities will be legalization of marriages of homosexuals and allowing them to adopt children.

Allowing them to adopt children? SubhaanAllah, where is this world heading to...

[★ηαѕιнα★]

Allowing them to adopt children? SubhaanAllah, where is this world heading to...

Same in Holland!

[جوري]

Same in Holland!

Don't they sell sex workers openly in Holland.. I know so many open for liberalism Americans who just absolutely despised it there + usually warn elderly couple who set to travel that they might be terribly uncomfortable there looking at jarring images and open drugs around the clock.

Holland is a poster country for lewdness!

:w:

[Froggy]

That's good news. Now people with conservatives views who support same-sex marriage can vote.

[Amadeus85]

Same in Holland!

There is a legal peadophil party in this country.

[★ηαѕιнα★]

Don't they sell sex workers openly in Holland.. I know so many open for liberalism Americans who just absolutely despised it there + usually warn elderly couple who set to travel that they might be terribly uncomfortable there looking at jarring images and open drugs around the clock.

Holland is a poster country for lewdness!

:w:

Thats why I want to make hidrjah inshallah. I do NOT want my children to grow up here. Its terrible alhamdoellilah.
And its not only on the streets but also on TV. Do you know I cant watch TV with my dad around? Thats what made me stop watching TV. I only do on sundays and then only Discovery Channel and Animal Planet and such. Thats the only "safe" ones and you can actually learn new important stuff there.
And you know what: when you stop watching TV then you really notice how far gone this world is. News I only hear from my dad, sibblings, teachers and classmates. Other than that I have compeltely cutt myself of from that influences. I Dont read the newspaper. Maybe only when I find one in the bus and have nothing else to do. Seriously you should try not watching TV for like a month, then the bad developments really start to be clearer then ever.
The last day is near alhamdoelillah.:hmm:

[Asiyah3]

That's good news. Now people with conservatives views who support same-sex marriage can vote.

May I ask something... Don't take it in a bad way. You're entitled to have your opinion. You call that good news, is a child without a mother such a fascinating idea?

[titus]

is a child without a mother such a fascinating idea?

Are you referring to adoption or to gay marriage?

[جوري]

May I ask something... Don't take it in a bad way. You're entitled to have your opinion. You call that good news, is a child without a mother such a fascinating idea?

It is the best idea.. women are but incubators!
who better to raise a child than two fruit loops?

:w:

[Asiyah3]

Are you referring to adoption or to gay marriage?

Adoption. Nonetheless if gay marriage will be legalized their rights to adoption will eventually follow up... My deepst sympathies goes out to the innocent kids who must suffer from others lack of empathy.

[Insecured soul]

Disbelievers will never accept the of true religion of allah, they can accept everything from gay marriages to incest and openly promote zina

[★ηαѕιнα★]

There is a legal peadophil party in this country.

Where, in Holland? Yeah was some heavy news a few years ago though we dont hear much from them now. Or did you mean in your own country?

[Musliman]

Adoption. Nonetheless if gay marriage will be legalized their rights to adoption will eventually follow up... My deepst sympathies goes out to the innocent kids who must suffer from others lack of empathy.

Hello _Muslim_, I have missed you so much, how have you been doing since "that" last time ? :D I wanted to send you a PM, but unfortunately I should post at least fifty messages on board.

Just wanted to clarify something, gay marriage does not necessarily mean adoption rights, as far as I know, Portugal for instance voted two months ago for the legalization of same sex marriage but not adoption rights. As you can find countries which provide rights to adopt but not marriage.

Example of Europe here

Disbelievers will never accept the of true religion of allah, they can accept everything from gay marriages to incest and openly promote zina

Not really, don't confuse gay marriage with incest, incestuous acts are abhorred and are illegal in almost all countries in the world, and it is a choice.

[Froggy]

Adoption. Nonetheless if gay marriage will be legalized their rights to adoption will eventually follow up... My deepst sympathies goes out to the innocent kids who must suffer from others lack of empathy.

Britain already allows adoption. Gays and lesbians receive equal rights of marriage, the only difference is that it's not called marriage.

[Froggy]

Not really, don't confuse gay marriage with incest, incestuous acts are abhorred and are illegal in almost all countries in the world, and it is a choice.

Incestual sex is a choice the way gay, straight or any other sexual relationship is a choice.

[Musliman]

Incestual sex is a choice the way gay, straight or any other sexual relationship is a choice.

Having sex is a choice, that's for sure, but not feelings. You don't choose to be gay, bi, or straight. If you love your sister or brother, you can avoid it because it concerns only one individual , while if you are gay or lesbian you do have the choice but you only feel the same sex attraction ;)

[Asiyah3]

Hello _Muslim_, I have missed you so much, how have you been doing since "that" last time ? :D I wanted to send you a PM, but unfortunately I should post at least fifty messages on board.

Hello, bro :D I'm fine Al-hamdulilLah. Lol I was so confused at first since I didn't remember who you were :D Try to reach 50 posts soon.

Example of Europe here

Thanks for the link. SubhaanAllah, I didn't know so many countries already allow gay adoption :hmm:
:wa:

[Asiyah3]

Britain already allows adoption. Gays and lesbians receive equal rights of marriage, the only difference is that it's not called marriage.

I don't really get it... why do they even want to get married? What difference does a written piece of paper make?

[Skavau]

I don't really get it... why do they even want to get married? What difference does a written piece of paper make?

It is about equality. They aren't out to necessarily gain any advantages over what they have, but wish for legal recognition of equality.

[Musliman]

Hello, bro :D I'm fine Al-hamdulilLah. Lol I was so confused at first since I didn't remember who you were :D Try to reach 50 posts soon.

Thanks for the link. SubhaanAllah, I didn't know so many countries already allow gay adoption :hmm:
:wa:

Inchallah, I will reach 50 posts soon :D That is only Europe, same sex adoption rights are available in my other countries, regions and parts of the world.

It is about equality. They aren't out to necessarily gain any advantages over what they have, but wish for legal recognition of equality.

Exactly, end of discrimination and equality for all ;)

[Asiyah3]

It is about equality. They aren't out to necessarily gain any advantages over what they have, but wish for legal recognition of equality.

In your opinion does the legalization of gay marriages promote equality?

[Skavau]

In your opinion does the legalization of gay marriages promote equality?

Well, as long as homosexual couples can obtain the same financial benefits as heterosexual couples through a civil partnership they have equality. It is the community asking for nothing more than lip service if viable partnerships already exist, to be honest. The term 'marriage' to me means nothing personally.

[Asiyah3]

Well, as long as homosexual couples can obtain the same financial benefits as heterosexual couples through a civil partnership they have equality. It is the community asking for nothing more than lip service if viable partnerships already exist, to be honest.

Ok.

The term 'marriage' to me means nothing personally.

Ok. If Allah would have guided me astray (I seek refuge from Allah) then I guess it wouldn't have any meaning to me.

[Amadeus85]

Where, in Holland? Yeah was some heavy news a few years ago though we dont hear much from them now. Or did you mean in your own country?

I mean Holland, that party still exists and even has its own political programme. But dutch fascist and medieval society doesnt want to give them tolerance and equality. But thats a matter of time only I guess.

[barney]

I am also incompatible with this ;D

Yeah, All muslims would have to be at the final analysis. A world united under Allah kind of stamps out the ideas of other cultures living in harmony together, celebrating differences and intergrating with each other.

Thats why,if your looking for a German area of a city or a Scottish area of a city in the UK, you cant find it. All these cultures have just blended in and share the joint experience, which is what multiculturalism is about.

[Pygoscelis]

Gay marriage highlights for us the state/church problem with marriage. And I think it is a good motivator to finally separate the two.

My proposal is to separate the state and church aspects of what we now call marriage. The state should not be telling the church who can enter a spiritual union and the church should not be telling the state who must be recognized for certain legal rights (and no, "civil unions" do NOT carry all the same rights as "marriage" under current laws now in many countries, including the US). I would have "civil union" available to anybody who wants it, and have it be a legal contract for the legal rights and then have "marriage" be something religions recognize or not, a spiritual union with no legal aspect attached. Then the religious bigots don't have to recognize the marriages of homosexuals and I don't have to recognize the marriages of religious bigots.

I wonder if this idea could be acceptable to the homosexuals. And I wonder if it could be acceptable to the religious bigots.

[Supreme]

Gay marriage highlights for us the state/church problem with marriage. And I think it is a good motivator to finally separate the two.

My proposal is to separate the state and church aspects of what we now call marriage. The state should not be telling the church who can enter a spiritual union and the church should not be telling the state who must be recognized for certain legal rights (and no, "civil unions" do NOT carry all the same rights as "marriage" under current laws now in many countries, including the US). I would have "civil union" available to anybody who wants it, and have it be a legal contract for the legal rights and then have "marriage" be something religions recognize or not, a spiritual union with no legal aspect attached. Then the religious bigots don't have to recognize the marriages of homosexuals and I don't have to recognize the marriages of religious bigots.

I wonder if this idea could be acceptable to the homosexuals. And I wonder if it could be acceptable to the religious bigots.

What about homosexual religious bigots?

[Amadeus85]

Gay marriage highlights for us the state/church problem with marriage. And I think it is a good motivator to finally separate the two.

My proposal is to separate the state and church aspects of what we now call marriage. The state should not be telling the church who can enter a spiritual union and the church should not be telling the state who must be recognized for certain legal rights (and no, "civil unions" do NOT carry all the same rights as "marriage" under current laws now in many countries, including the US). I would have "civil union" available to anybody who wants it, and have it be a legal contract for the legal rights and then have "marriage" be something religions recognize or not, a spiritual union with no legal aspect attached. Then the religious bigots don't have to recognize the marriages of homosexuals and I don't have to recognize the marriages of religious bigots.

I wonder if this idea could be acceptable to the homosexuals. And I wonder if it could be acceptable to the religious bigots.

You can read my signature and have a think whether family is something we can change however we want.

[Pygoscelis]

What about homosexual religious bigots?

The only other bigotry I can think of caused by religion is the traditional mormon take on black people, but a homosexual can't be a mormon anyway. :)
Maybe the caste system in India? But I'm not sure if that is religiously derived or culturally derived.