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Uthman
02-27-2010, 01:15 PM
A majority of women believe some rape victims should take responsibility for what happened, a survey suggests.

Almost three quarters of the women who believed this said if a victim got into bed with the assailant before an attack they should accept some responsibility.

One-third blamed victims who had dressed provocatively or gone back to the attacker's house for a drink.

The survey of more than 1,000 people in London marked the 10th anniversary of the Haven service for rape victims.

More than half of those of both sexes questioned said there were some circumstances when a rape victim should accept responsibility for an attack.

Less forgiving


The study found that women were less forgiving of the victim than men.

Of the women who believed some victims should take responsibility, 71% thought a person should accept responsibility when getting into bed with someone, compared with 57% of men.

Elizabeth Harrison from Haven said there was never an excuse for forcing a woman to do something she did not want to.

"Clearly, women are in a position where they need to take responsibility for themselves - but whatever you wear and whatever you do does not give somebody else the right to rape you.

"It's important people take the time to actually look at what they are doing and make sure the person they are with is actually wanting to go ahead with what they are proposing."

The survey also found more than one in 10 people were unsure whether they would report being raped to the police, and 2% said they would definitely not do so.

The main reasons were being too embarrassed or ashamed (55%), wanting to forget it had happened (41%) and not wanting to go to court (38%).

Meanwhile, the survey suggested that many people are relaxed about their safety. Almost half of people have walked home via side streets on their own.

One in five has been so drunk they have lost their memory, while one in five has got into a taxi without checking whether it is licensed.

Hardening attitudes


When asked about their own experiences, more than a third of those polled said they had been in a situation where they could have been made to have sex against their will.

Women are more likely to have been in this situation - 40% compared to 20%.

And one in five adults had been in a situation where they were made to have sex when they did not want to. This had happened to more women (23%) than men (20%).

It is depressing that people are still quick to blame the victim of rape rather than placing the responsibility where it actually belongs - squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator


Kate Allen
Amnesty International

The online survey, titled Wake Up To Rape, polled 1,061 people aged 18 to 50, comprising 712 women and 349 men.

An Amnesty International report five years ago found that a significant minority of British people laid the blame for rape at victims themselves.

BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw says this latest study suggests attitudes may have hardened. And the findings may help explain why juries are reluctant to convict in some rape trials.

Amnesty International's UK director Kate Allen said the new findings were "alarming but sadly not surprising".

"It is depressing that, nearly half a decade later, people are still quick to blame the victim of rape rather than placing the responsibility where it actually belongs - squarely on the shoulders of the perpetrator," she said.

"The government has announced that it will develop an 'integrated strategy' to tackle violence against women and these findings are another reminder of how urgent this is and how proper training, support and resourcing will be vital in making it a reality."

The Home Office said it had introduced a number of measures to the service provided to rape victims, including new police and prosecutors' guidance, monitoring of services and funding for support for rape victims.

A spokeswoman said: "The government is determined to ensure that every victim has immediate access to the services and support they need so that more victims have the confidence to come forward and report these crimes and we can bring the perpetrators to justice."


Rape victims' views on blame

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Karina
02-27-2010, 07:51 PM
Putting aside the moral arguments - we all know that promiscuity is a no-no.... but surely this is clear-cut - surely 'no' means 'no'!

How can forced sex ever be acceptable?

Is it ever acceptable?

:hmm:
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Dagless
02-27-2010, 08:11 PM
http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...ing-raped.html
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Pygoscelis
02-27-2010, 08:57 PM
Is this really a serious question? Of course rape is never acceptable.
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Karina
02-27-2010, 09:09 PM
For women who are not Muslims (and even some who are - Astaghfurillah), it is normal nowadays to go out in shorts and a tank top in the summer and that is not considered "revealing" in some cultures. Of course in Islam women are supposed to dress differently but I'm just trying to explain that how some women do not even see a "problem" with the way they are dressed and almost even think they are dressing conservatively and they may not know any better.

Just like a woman should try to guard herself by dressing conservatively and modest to deter such actions as much as she can, a man should guard himself and lower his gaze. If he sees a woman dressed in a way that attracts him, then he should look away.
'Nuff said. :hiding:
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CosmicPathos
02-27-2010, 09:13 PM
he should look away, fine, but let the woman walk away like that? And then she has the right to start whining when Mullahs come into power?
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aamirsaab
02-27-2010, 09:18 PM
:sl:
I still say we should castrate rapists. Or kick them in the nuts at least.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-27-2010, 10:08 PM
Rape is unacceptable but if a women goes out partying at clubs and bars and is irresponsible and promiscuous, she put herself in that situation.
I dont care if that sounds insensitive.

Natalie Halloway, the girl who disapeared in Aruba? Partying, drinking and doing drugs with complete strangers no less.
So many more. There have been several cases of rape at my university. Every single one of those cases happened on what is now dubbed "the rape trail" which used to be called the "party trail" because people go there to drink, do drugs and participate in sexual activity.
And yea, I DO think a woman should take part of the blame if she is getting in bed with a man and drinking with him or being promiscuous. If you put yourself in that type of situation, dont be surprised if bad things happen!

Women are vulnerable. They need to be more careful where they go and what they do.


Word to the wise: Whenever you get in your car, even if its day light, lock your doors. A rapist often targets women who enter their cars and dont pay attention to what is and who is around them.
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Karina
02-27-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm sure that this has been said a MILLION times before but are men so incapable of containing their disgusting monsterous appetite for lust?

Why is it not a man's fault too for not keeping a lid on their urges.

I have an urge sometimes to smack my boss in the face with a chair but I get over it. She provokes me... but I'm better than that.

What's the difference?
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AlbanianMuslim
02-27-2010, 10:22 PM
No one is saying its not the mans fault. It is very well his fault. I think rapists should die terrible deaths, but women need to be more responsible. Especially when they know there are rapists out there.
There are men who dont want to stop themselves or are psychologically incapable of doing so, that is all the more reason why women should be careful.

Even men are vulnerable in bad situations. One of my cousins, finished school to be an architect. He had his whole life ahead of him. Went to a club one night, didnt keep an eye on his drink. Someone slipped him a drug that nearly killed him. Had they not pumped his stomach he would have either died or been paralyzed. He now has to take pills daily to keep his mind running. He will never be the same vibrant person he was before.
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Supreme
02-27-2010, 11:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
:sl:
I still say we should castrate rapists. Or kick them in the nuts at least.
Amen. Well, it'd certainly deter me.
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aamirsaab
02-27-2010, 11:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Amen. Well, it'd certainly deter me.
Personally, I was thinking more for irony or ''sh1tz and giggles'' factor :p
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Italianguy
02-27-2010, 11:40 PM
As it was once said "Off with their heads!"
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Supreme
02-27-2010, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Personally, I was thinking more for irony or ''sh1tz and giggles'' factor :p
I jusr re read my post, it sounds like I'm not deterred already, so to clarify:

I wouldn't rape today, not only out of fear of repercussions but because of my morality. However, if I was a psycopathic serial rapist with no ethics or morals, castration would deter me.
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Froggy
02-27-2010, 11:45 PM
So it's the nerds fault they get bullied? Or veiled women?
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Italianguy
02-27-2010, 11:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
I jusr re read my post, it sounds like I'm not deterred already, so to clarify:

I wouldn't rape today, not only out of fear of repercussions but because of my morality. However, if I was a psycopathic serial rapist with no ethics or morals, castration would deter me.
I should reclarify that again for you. Instead of saying "I wouldn't rape today" you should have said "Rape is not in my vocabulary or thoughts, so I don't have to worry about the repprecussions of such a hanious crime"
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Eliphaz
02-27-2010, 11:54 PM
I agree women should take some level of precaution to avoid getting raped, but I disagree with the onus being on them to prevent rape, as Islam tries to do with the hijab. Why does it have to be miniskirts or hijab? I think you will find most women through their own sound judgement find a suitable medium without men telling them what to do.
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Italianguy
02-28-2010, 12:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I agree women should take some level of precaution to avoid getting raped, but I disagree with the onus being on them to prevent rape, as Islam tries to do with the hijab. Why does it have to be miniskirts or hijab? I think you will find most women through their own sound judgement find a suitable medium without men telling them what to do.
Who said someone told them to wear the hijab? Just as in the bible, it's tells women to be covered(in church, in prayer). I would asume they wear the hijab because they to believe it is written somewhere that God commanded them to do so. Why is that so hard to understand? we believe what we are taught from our holy books. Like as if you were taught something in school, but....we also have faith, and use it, and live by it. Some do wear it, some don't. That is their personal decision, not one that some person on the street told them to do to prevent rape. We do what we are told to glorify God...not man.
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-28-2010, 12:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I agree women should take some level of precaution to avoid getting raped, but I disagree with the onus being on them to prevent rape, as Islam tries to do with the hijab.
it also prevents it with ordering the guy to lower his gaze as well. how convenient of you to fail to include that.

for the record, there are several other reasons why we are told to wear a hijab, primarily being to obey god. why people (non-Muslims in this case) immediately jump to the conclusion that it is denotes placing the blame and responsibility for "his" actions as well, is beyond me. people need to think outside the square, seriously.


Why does it have to be miniskirts or hijab?
oh i dont know, you tell me which i guy finds more attractive.

I think you will find most women through their own sound judgement find a suitable medium without men telling them what to do.
i dont ever recall a man telling me to put on my hijab, and im sure likewise you'll find that with the majority of Muslim Women as well.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-28-2010, 12:58 AM
Hmmm...thats such a TOUGH question....who would a rapist target a modest women who wears hijab and doesnt go to bars or clubs...

or a woman in a mini skirt who is half drunk walking to her car alone at night in a parking lot....

wow...i cant seem to make up my mind!
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Pygoscelis
02-28-2010, 02:12 AM
Sure, it is UNWISE to walk down a dark alley with twenty dollar bills hanging out your pockets, or for a black man to walk into a KKK rally, but that doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the mugger or lyncher. And in no way should the fool be blamed or punished for such foolish behaviour. Its also unwise to be either an atheist or a muslim in the bible belt or an atheist or christian in many parts of the middle east (doesn't make it wrong to be or blameworthy to be)
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Eliphaz
02-28-2010, 02:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy
Who said someone told them to wear the hijab? Just as in the bible, it's tells women to be covered(in church, in prayer). I would asume they wear the hijab because they to believe it is written somewhere that God commanded them to do so. Why is that so hard to understand? we believe what we are taught from our holy books. Like as if you were taught something in school, but....we also have faith, and use it, and live by it. Some do wear it, some don't. That is their personal decision, not one that some person on the street told them to do to prevent rape. We do what we are told to glorify God...not man.
Of course Italianguy, I do understand. But to me, your religious book is the will of man disguised as the will of God. Therefore we (i.e. atheists, agnostics, deists) see any commandments in these books as the will of man being imposed on women.

@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?

Also, my point was that there aren't just two options here; miniskirts or hijab. There are 'modest' options which do not require hijab. If anything, I have seen that hijabs get negative attention from Muslim males instead, therefore does this not defeat the purpose?
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-28-2010, 03:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
Of course Italianguy, I do understand. But to me, your religious book is the will of man disguised as the will of God.
for someone who doesn't believe in god (as you said, atheists-etc) , this would be the most apparent conclusion. of course someone who denounces and doesn't believe in god would immediately assume that.

so (with all due respect), why should the opinion of someone who doesn't believe in god be taken into consideration in this respect?

Therefore we (i.e. atheists, agnostics, deists) see any commandments in these books as the will of man being imposed on women.
why do people immeditaley assume that a woman covering her head denotes that it is imposed on her? since when was putting a piece of cloth on your head imposition?

@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?
i dont know. perhaps this question is best aimed at men who try lower their gazes in a society where women tend to be bearing all. i dont think its easy for him at all :hmm: that's one angle to look at it. another is, is it a question of whats easier and what isn't? has anyone ever taken into consideration that maybe women are so drop dead gorgeous no man deserves to look at her?


Also, my point was that there aren't just two options here; miniskirts or hijab. There are 'modest' options which do not require hijab. If anything, I have seen that hijabs get negative attention from Muslim males instead, therefore does this not defeat the purpose?
no there isn't. men are attracted to hair, men are attractive to body shape.
what is another option of "modesty" that includes concealing body shape, hair and skin sufficiently.

do note: im not in the least saying that women cover to help men keep their own piety-i frankly couldn't care less and i know for many sisters it wouldn't be to make men feel at ease. a lot of sister would wear it 1) to uphold gods commandments as best as she can and 2) to deter the gaze of men- not because she cares about them-i doubt she does -but because she doesn't appreciate that she may be looked at in that way by a strange man-and why should she? some men can be so perverted no matter how civilized they may come across as :embarrass men will always love women, and just because it isn't morally acceptable to touch her indecently, it doesn't mean it will preventing him from staring at her indecently. why should a woman be desensitized to a perverted gaze :( why is that more acceptable? i cant get my head around it.

i dont see how it is in her best interests or how it serves to preserve her value if she is made to put on display for every man who has no self control or respect towards women to look at her the way he may (if he finds her attractive). why should she be looked at like that?

it wouldn't be half the problem if a guy who cant lower his gaze is actually loyal to one woman to keep his eyes for only her-but the reality is, is that he is far far from this. a guy may look at a girl who happens to be dressed a certain *attractive* way, but we all know the second another attractive woman walks in-front of him, he'll "drop" the first in a heart beat. tell me, how is this fair to either women? and how is that going to make a girl feel that at one moment a guy who apparently found her so drop dead gorgeous 1 sec ago, will, a second later have his eyes fixed on another?

ugh! quit insulting my intelligence :heated:


p.s i dont mean my post to be a bash at men, but you all know what your like, im just stating the obvious :embarrass
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Eliphaz
02-28-2010, 03:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
so (with all due respect), why should the opinion of someone who doesn't believe in god be taken into consideration in this respect?


why do people immeditaley assume that a woman covering her head denotes that it is imposed on her? since when was putting a piece of cloth on your head imposition?


i dont know. perhaps this question is best aimed at men who try lower their gazes in a society where women tend to be bearing all. i dont think its easy for him at all :hmm: that's one angle to look at it. another is, is it a question of whats easier and what isn't? has anyone ever taken into consideration that maybe women are so drop dead gorgeous no man deserves to look at her?



no there isn't. men are attracted to hair, men are attractive to body shape.
what is another option of "modesty" that includes concealing body shape, hair and skin sufficiently.

do note: im not in the least saying that women cover to help men keep their own piety-i frankly couldn't care less and i know for many sisters it wouldn't be to make men feel at ease. a lot of sister would wear it 1) to uphold gods commandments as best as she can and 2) to deter the gaze of men- not because she cares about them-i doubt she does -but because she doesn't appreciate that she may be looked at in that way by a strange man-and why should she? some men can be so perverted no matter how civilized they may come across as :embarrass men will always love women, and just because it isn't morally acceptable to touch her indecently, it doesn't mean it will preventing him from staring at her indecently. why should a woman be desensitized to a perverted gaze :( why is that more acceptable? i cant get my head around it.

i dont see how it is in her best interests or how it serves to preserve her value if she is made to put on display for every man who has no self control or respect towards women to look at her the way he may (if he finds her attractive). why should she be looked at like that?

it wouldn't be half the problem if a guy who cant lower his gaze is actually loyal to one woman to keep his eyes for only her-but the reality is, is that he is far far from this. a guy may look at a girl who happens to be dressed a certain *attractive* way, but we all know the second another attractive woman walks in-front of him, he'll "drop" the first in a heart beat. tell me, how is this fair to either women? and how is that going to make a girl feel that at one moment a guy who apparently found her so drop dead gorgeous 1 sec ago, will, a second later have his eyes fixed on another?

ugh! quit insulting my intelligence :heated:


p.s i dont mean my post to be a bash at men, but you all know what your like, im just stating the obvious :embarrass
I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that. Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want. How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?
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AlbanianMuslim
02-28-2010, 04:06 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
Sure, it is UNWISE to walk down a dark alley with twenty dollar bills hanging out your pockets, or for a black man to walk into a KKK rally, but that doesn't in any way excuse the behaviour of the mugger or lyncher. And in no way should the fool be blamed or punished for such foolish behaviour. Its also unwise to be either an atheist or a muslim in the bible belt or an atheist or christian in many parts of the middle east (doesn't make it wrong to be or blameworthy to be)
Your ignorance amazes me. Who said they should be punished? None of us said that. However, they should take part of the responsibility if the circumstances lead to the conclusion that the victim was being irresponsible at the time of the crim.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-28-2010, 04:09 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
@ Ummu Sufyan: Of course, men are also commanded to lower their gaze. But which is the larger commitment, lowering the gaze or the hijab?
:heated: My God, you and your ridiculous questions. You seriously think that a man lowering his gaze when he sees a woman is anywhere near as big of a commitment as a woman wearing a hijab? You have got to be kidding me. Not only are you not in any position to even know what kind of commitment and courage it takes to wear the hijab, you continually insinuate that a woman who is modest regardless of whether she wears hijab or not is just as likely to be raped than a woman who doesnt wear it and wears a mini skirt instead. Utterly and irrevocably preposterous.
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AlbanianMuslim
02-28-2010, 04:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that. Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want. How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?
Incorrect again. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that Muslim men are obligated to lower their gaze when they encounter women other than their wives or blood relations.

:hiding:
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Ummu Sufyaan
02-28-2010, 07:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eliphaz
I agree men are pigs, but hjiab doesn't change that.Instead it gives men more peace of mind that only they get to see their wife's hair fully and no other man, whilst they can theoretically still look at any women they want.
How did this in any way change the attitude of the man?
errr, can they? that's news to me.

ahh yes chop and change it any way you want, but as long you do anything BUT admit that the hijaab serves a purpose and is in favor of women, turning the argument around and curbing away from the point will always hold up an argument for people of your type. where in Islamic law says it is acceptable for him to do as you say? when/where have we condoned this? this is a completely separate issue in relation to the virtue of the hijaab which is was elaborating on earlier.

Rape has happened and will always happen unless there are stricter punishments. Does the Qur'an or Sunnah prescribe any punishments for rape?
for a non-married man, its a flogging, for a married man, its the stone... which is a lot more of a punishment then then those countries and movements who supposedly love and respect women. pssshht, pull the other one.
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tango92
02-28-2010, 07:11 AM
does a jeweller leave his shop open at night with no security and his merchandise on display? of course not because he KNOWS hes attracting the wrong people.

heck anyone would be tempted to walk in and grab something. (hopefully most people wouldnt)

and even more so if they knew the shopkeeper was too afraid to report the incident.

i hope this analogy makes sense. as for you feminists, a rapist does not conform to your views of morality. this is the real world.
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aadil77
02-28-2010, 03:00 PM
I hate women who dress immodestly, especially ones who cry about rape as if they aren't responsible in the slightest, some of these slags even get in bed naked with the 'rapist' and still cry rape.

If you're out at night half naked and drunk, you're basically leaving the back door open to strangers, so essentially some of the blame is on you.

Its like leaving the keys in the ignition, if your car gets stolen no car insurance company is gonna cover you because you're partially responsible and to blame
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cat eyes
02-28-2010, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
I hate women who dress immodestly, especially ones who cry about rape as if they aren't responsible in the slightest, some of these slags even get in bed naked with the 'rapist' and still cry rape.

If you're out at night half naked and drunk, you're basically leaving the back door open to strangers, so essentially some of the blame is on you.

Its like leaving the keys in the ignition, if your car gets stolen no car insurance company is gonna cover you because you're partially responsible and to blame
exactly. wasen there a couple of football players accused of rape in the u.k? all because she got in to bed with a load of men then she started crying rape :hmm: probably was a couple of years now i saw it on the news. obviously the woman has to take some blame not only that but these woman are encouraging other women to do the same thing
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Cabdullahi
02-28-2010, 04:06 PM
There are two groups of women those that choose to go to clubs and drink...then there's the innocent one's that were just minding their business when attacked...the uppermost group should be partly blamed and the latter group should be given full assistance until they can get their life back on track.
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