PDA

View Full Version : the differences between possession and mental illness



Civilsed
02-27-2010, 09:36 PM
Asalam Alaikum,

Very interesting and beneficial video's by Shaykh Abu Eesa discusses the differences between possession and mental illness, Sh. Abu Talib a senior scholar in the field of Jinn possession shows the dangers of amulets and black magic.

Part one

http://theislamicummah.ning.com/vide...-illness-and-1

Part two

http://theislamicummah.ning.com/vide...al-illness-and
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
abu_musab461
02-28-2010, 05:23 AM
With all due respect to the shiekh Talib i think he over emphasis the issues of mental illness.

Its true that people who were are hard drugs will display symptoms similar to mental illness but a qualified raqi should be able to tell the difference.

Not write off everyone as mental illness.

So personally i would take what he says with a pinch of salt.
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:27 PM
very interesting
Reply

abu_musab461
03-08-2010, 11:32 PM
Im sorry if this seems like back biting or slander, but anyone who has any experience in ruqya will know that the shiekh for some odd reason has the tendency to diagnose almost everyone he sees as "schizophrenia"- often blatant cases of jinn possessions.

Its common knowledge.

Seen a few with my own eyes. And goes without saying that soon as you say its a mental illness it hurts and affects the individuals and thier family a lot.

May Allah shower him and his family for all the effort that they have poured into help so many families over the past decade or so.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Salahudeen
03-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Yeah I've watched this, the sheikh gave an example of how he makes his diagnosis which I felt was not thorough enough,

isn't it possible for people to have problems with jinn and the jinn doesn't manifest when the ruqya is recited :p In the book I've been reading, it says

"the jinn may manifest or it may not, if it does not manfiest record the following verses of the qur'an on cd and advise the patient to listen to them every day for a period of 3 months".

the symptoms exist and sometimes people can't understand why they feel the way they do.

People sometimes never even suspect that it is a jinn because it doesn't bother them in any way apart from the area in which it was summoned to cause distrubtion. For example it makes the person argue with his wife over little things and feel hate towards her.

it may not cause any other symptoms so the person could be completely oblivious to the fact a jinn is causing the problems.
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:36 PM
yeah but it annoys me when people think that every mentally ill person is effected with jinn:hmm:

i think its important to understand mental illness.
Reply

Salahudeen
03-08-2010, 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
yeah but it annoys me when people think that every mentally ill person is effected with jinn:hmm:

i think its important to understand mental illness.
There is a fine line between both so it is easy to mix the two up.
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:39 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
There is a fine line between both so it is easy to mix the two up.
yeah there is a fine line between both but a doctor would know anyway if the person is mentally ill.
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:41 PM
im such a clever cat:p
Reply

Salahudeen
03-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
yeah there is a fine line between both but a doctor would know anyway if the person is mentally ill.
It would even be hard for the doctor as he would totally dismiss the idea of jinn possession if he is a kafar doctor.

You see the problem is doctors totally ignore the idea of jinn possession and jump straight to the drugs before trying out Islamic remedies like Ruqya and advising the patient to listen to the Qu'ran for a certain amount of time every day.

It wouldn't hurt if both remedies were implemented at the same time, the drugs could be prescribed and also treatment using the Qur'an could be carried out.

However this is not the case and I often wonder just how many people in mental hospitals are afflicted with Jinn and how many are afflicted with genuine mental illness.

I wish I could go in there and play ruqya on the loud speaker and observe the actions :hmm:
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461
Im sorry if this seems like back biting or slander, but anyone who has any experience in ruqya will know that the shiekh for some odd reason has the tendency to diagnose almost everyone he sees as "schizophrenia"- often blatant cases of jinn possessions.

Its common knowledge.

Seen a few with my own eyes. And goes without saying that soon as you say its a mental illness it hurts and affects the individuals and thier family a lot.

May Allah shower him and his family for all the effort that they have poured into help so many families over the past decade or so.
brother it is backbiting. imsad
Reply

cat eyes
03-08-2010, 11:47 PM
Originally Posted by squiggle
It would even be hard for the doctor as he would totally dismiss the idea of jinn possession if he is a kafar doctor.

You see the problem is doctors totally ignore the idea of jinn possession and jump straight to the drugs before trying out Islamic remedies like Ruqya and advising the patient to listen to the Qu'ran for a certain amount of time every day.

It wouldn't hurt if both remedies were implemented at the same time, the drugs could be prescribed and also treatment using the Qur'an could be carried out.

However this is not the case and I often wonder just how many people in mental hospitals are afflicted with Jinn and how many are afflicted with genuine mental illness.

I wish I could go in there and play ruqya on the loud speaker and observe the actions :hmm:
jinn are very clever though they know when somebody is going to recite the ruqya so they leave the body at that point and then return again.

I was watching a vid on utube and the imaam was saying that this is the reason why ruqyah fails
Reply

abu_musab461
03-08-2010, 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
brother it is backbiting. imsad
It seem like back biting but it falls under the catagory of warning others of the potential harm or dangers that might come from blindly trusting anyone person.

Its not the same as if he commited a sin privately. If he did so privately and i went around telling people then this is wrong and a unjustice from me.

I would advice people who do ruqya not to conclude its jinn unless with 100% certainty and at the same time the patient should not be 100% convinced without a second opinion.

Allah Knows Best
Reply

Salahudeen
03-08-2010, 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
jinn are very clever though they know when somebody is going to recite the ruqya so they leave the body at that point and then return again.

I was watching a vid on utube and the imaam was saying that this is the reason why ruqyah fails
If that is the case then alhamdulilah, the person simply has to recite the protective dua's once the jinn has left to ensure it doesn't gain entry into his body again.

however some are very stubborn and do not leave at all because the body they are in is like a comfortable apartment, you have to make your body an uncomfortable place for them to live in by being obediant to Allah and staying away from sins.

also anoying them with things that hurt them such as listening to Qur'an on a daily basis, drinking and bathing with ruqya water.

this is very anoying to them and if it is done on a daily basis then there is only so much they will take before they get angry.

if the person does lots of sins then the jinn will love his body even more.
Reply

PouringRain
03-08-2010, 11:57 PM
The video links in the first post are not working for me. Do they work for anyone else? I noticed the first post is 1 week old, so I wondered if they might be down now?

Regarding mental illness vs. spirit possession... in Christian circles is is common to find people who are completely dismissive of all mental illness and believe that all things are a spiritual problem (demon possession or otherwise). I agree with cat eyes, that it is important to understand mental illness. I agree that not everything is a mental illness, and I am also not a fan of handing out drugs like candy to treat all mental illnesses. I do think it is important to examine differences between mental illnesses and spirit possession, and make distinctions.
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2010, 12:00 AM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
The video links in the first post are not working for me. Do they work for anyone else? I noticed the first post is 1 week old, so I wondered if they might be down now?

Regarding mental illness vs. spirit possession... in Christian circles is is common to find people who are completely dismissive of all mental illness and believe that all things are a spiritual problem (demon possession or otherwise). I agree with cat eyes, that it is important to understand mental illness. I agree that not everything is a mental illness, and I am also not a fan of handing out drugs like candy to treat all mental illnesses. I do think it is important to examine differences between mental illnesses and spirit possession, and make distinctions.
try this link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtpibw1NRxg
Reply

abu_musab461
03-09-2010, 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
jinn are very clever though they know when somebody is going to recite the ruqya so they leave the body at that point and then return again.

I was watching a vid on utube and the imaam was saying that this is the reason why ruqyah fails
Sorry to burst your bubble...

I highly doubt they can leave and come back so easily... trust me. very very unlikely.

Its not easy to enter and exit the body as some people make out to be... thats why the jinns are so reluclant to leave...

More convincing is that fact that jinns can hide in the body to try avoid detection.

But a raqi who is experienced and with the Help of Allah can not only find jinns in the body thats hiding but can tell the difference between jinn and mental illness.

Lets give a simple example... if you and squiggle both wore niqab and pretended to be a woman (sorry squiggle) a person with little experience might not know that squiggle is male, but one who is experienced at determining gender from the body language will know straight away and no fooling them.

Its a basic example but in ruqya its a similar sort of thing but on a more complex scale.

Also squiggle you can learn stuff from books but remember books about ruqya are general and only part or portion of the whole process.

Similarly books about dream interpretaion are ok to read cos they might have general points and examples from hadith but a book cant specifically interpret your dream cos you might have the same dream as another person but your dream means something compleatly different because if your situation. etc

So same thing with ruqya books. people are different and so are jinns some jinns might react to one verse or one thing dont mean every jinn will react in the same way.

ruqya can be a bit complcated, and a lot of it depends on Allah (swt)guiding your heart to saying and doing the right thing.

Allah Knows Best
Reply

abu_musab461
03-09-2010, 12:09 AM
The other thing is jinns have specific body language and behavior and vocabulary and psychology.

Its not easy to fake.

People can be deluded in to believing that they are possessed but that's not the same as being possessed.

Take my word for it. People who dont know jinn are likely to get confused between the two.

Sometimes you might say just one sentence to a raqi and he'll know your possessed or one look at you (by the Help of Allah), but at other times he can do ruqya for an hour and still be in doubt if there is something there....
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2010, 12:11 AM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461
Sorry to burst your bubble...

I highly doubt they can leave and come back so easily... trust me. very very unlikely.

Its not easy to enter and exit the body as some people make out to be... thats why the jinns are so reluclant to leave...

More convincing is that fact that jinns can hide in the body to try avoid detection.

But a raqi who is experienced and with the Help of Allah can not only find jinns in the body thats hiding but can tell the difference between jinn and mental illness.

Lets give a simple example... if you and squiggle both wore niqab and pretended to be a woman (sorry squiggle) a person with little experience might not know that squiggle is male, but one who is experienced at determining gender from the body language will know straight away and no fooling them.

Its a basic example but in ruqya its a similar sort of thing but on a more complex scale.

Also squiggle you can learn stuff from books but remember books about ruqya are general and only part or portion of the whole process.

Similarly books about dream interpretaion are ok to read cos they might have general points and examples from hadith but a book cant specifically interpret your dream cos you might have the same dream as another person but your dream means something compleatly different because if your situation. etc

So same thing with ruqya books. people are different and so are jinns some jinns might react to one verse or one thing dont mean every jinn will react in the same way.

ruqya can be a bit complcated, and a lot of it depends on Allah (swt)guiding your heart to saying and doing the right thing.

Allah Knows Best
I get what your saying, what I find amazing is the fact that the ruqya of people varies according to their emaan.

am I correct in saying if a kafar read the ruqya it would have no effect at all? :p

also I read a companion made ruqya with just fatiha and it was sufficient cos their emaan was so high.

what about the prophet (saw) when he came across the boy who was seized by fits, he didn't even make ruqya he just shouted in the boys mouth and commanded the jinn to get out :p

imagine how scared that jinn must've been the messenger of Allah (saw) commanding you to get out he probably fled straight away :p

ruqya is only effective if the person reciting it has emaan and taqwa right? :p
Reply

abu_musab461
03-09-2010, 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by squiggle
I get what your saying, what I find amazing is the fact that the ruqya of people varies according to their emaan.

am I correct in saying if a kafar read the ruqya it would have no effect at all? :p

also I read a companion made ruqya with just fatiha and it was sufficient cos their emaan was so high.

what about the prophet (saw) when he came across the boy who was seized by fits, he didn't even make ruqya he just shouted in the boys mouth and commanded the jinn to get out :p

imagine how scared that jinn must've been the messenger of Allah (saw) commanding you to get out he probably fled straight away :p

ruqya is only effective if the person reciting it has emaan and taqwa right? :p
Interesting set of questions.... ruqya can be done by kuffar- meaning jews or christains but ruqya is like makng dua for Allah swt to cure you, doesnt have to be Quran though its the best method, kuffar can do it as long as the fundamental principle is there thats is "No shirk or kufr involved"

Like in the same way if a kuffar was to make dua to Allah,calling upon His Oneness while rejecting anyother gods, calling for guidance or help- Allah swt answers their duas!!!

Makes you wonder what about us muslims then?

Sins prevent our duas been answered to avoid sins and make dua and watch the results!! ;D

anyway back to the points...

Companion who read surah fatiha made a good choice. Surah Fatiha is super effective against poison and other organic illnesses like head aches.

Taqwa is one of the fundamental principles of ruqya along with others such as sincerity, eman, avoiding sins, relaiance upon Allah (swt).

The link is the more you fear Allah the more the jinns will fear you- naturally.

Your reading "How to protect your self from jinn and shaytan"

Good book in it? :p
Reply

Salahudeen
03-09-2010, 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by abu_musab461

Interesting set of questions.... ruqya can be done by kuffar- meaning jews or christains but ruqya is like makng dua for Allah swt to cure you, doesnt have to be Quran though its the best method, kuffar can do it as long as the fundamental principle is there thats is "No shirk or kufr involved"

Like in the same way if a kuffar was to make dua to Allah,calling upon His Oneness while rejecting anyother gods, calling for guidance or help- Allah swt answers their duas!!!

Makes you wonder what about us muslims then?

Sins prevent our duas been answered to avoid sins and make dua and watch the results!! ;D

anyway back to the points...

Companion who read surah fatiha made a good choice. Surah Fatiha is super effective against poison and other organic illnesses like head aches.

Taqwa is one of the fundamental principles of ruqya along with others such as sincerity, eman, avoiding sins, relaiance upon Allah (swt).

The link is the more you fear Allah the more the jinns will fear you- naturally.

Your reading "How to protect your self from jinn and shaytan"

Good book in it? :p
interesting I never knew that :p hmm that would explain why christians/jews sometimes carry out exorcism's and are successfull in expelling the jinn.

I also heard that they might make shirk in their ruqya and the jinn likes this so as a result he does as they wish and leaves because they did shirk with Allah so the jinn obeyed them.

Just like the magcian does evil things like shirk to make the jinn obey him.

yeah it's a good book, I love sheikh Wahid Abdus Salaam Bali's books, he's so experienced on this topic :p He has many books on this topic you know.

now he's the guy they should've had on that show I think!! LOL.
Reply

abu_musab461
03-09-2010, 12:39 AM
If your looking for the evidence go back to right at the very start of the book i think in the preface where the prophet said to the Jewish woman who was making ruqya for aisha "Make ruqya with the Book of Allah"
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
HeartHijab.com | Hijab Sale | Pound Shop | UK Wholesale Certified Face Masks, Hand Sanitiser & PPE

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!