Western Nations Dar al Harb???

[Seeker1066]

I am interested if the posters here would feel that America, Britain and Germany etc. are Dar al Harb or Dar al Islam???

[Ummu Sufyaan]

i think they are considered to be dar-al kufr?

[Seeker1066]

i think they are considered to be dar-al kufr?

I am unfamiliar with this term. What effects or obligations are incurred to Muslims in such a setting. I am somewhat familiar with Dar al Harb and the requirements.

Thanks

[جوري]

dar al-islam = house of islam
dae-al-harb = house of war
darl-al-kufr = house of heathens so to speak!

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[Seeker1066]

dar al-islam = house of islam
dae-al-harb = house of war
darl-al-kufr = house of heathens so to speak!

Gossamer what if any do obligations do Muslims have in Dar al Kufr. In Dar al Harb they must fight or move to Dar al Islam is that correct??? Do you Gossamer feel that the west is Dar al Kufr as well??

[جوري]

Gossamer what if any do obligations do Muslims have in Dar al Kufr. In Dar al Harb they must fight or move to Dar al Islam is that correct??? Do you Gossamer feel that the west is Dar al Kufr as well??

I am not quite sure what the obligations are.. so I'll leave this answer to someone more knowledgeable than me in jurisprudence.

As for your last Q can simply be answered with common sense, you hold on to your values wherever you are and do your best.. Many groups have so managed, look at the Amish or hutterites or other groups that like to hold on to their tradition and values..


all the best

[barney]

Hmmm.

Freedom = Pornographic TV and sexual imorality. Peace = Arming Israel and American Troops in Saudi??

I think many Muslims would disagree.

US troops are in saudi because the KSA leaders want them there. Theres also US troops in advisory roles in Canada.
Arming Israel? Israel arms much of its forces itself, but regardless, if they diddnt buy them from the US they would buy them from Russia or China or anywhere. Its basically that Israel is armed at all, that it exists at all that annoys you.

Pornographic TV and sexual immorality? Yup, people are free to do that if they wish. But apart from teenagers , they usually dont. A western city isnt some kind of non-stop orgy! We just dont club people for showing ankles like the Taliban do. Nor do we club people for failing to wear bikini's and gyrate provocitavly in Tescos:p

[Dagless]

US troops are in saudi because the KSA leaders want them there. Theres also US troops in advisory roles in Canada.
Arming Israel? Israel arms much of its forces itself, but regardless, if they diddnt buy them from the US they would buy them from Russia or China or anywhere. Its basically that Israel is armed at all, that it exists at all that annoys you.

KSA gov is corrupt, and only kept in power with US help in order to keep US interests.

Israel arms much of its forces itself? Really? I think you'll find almost all Israel's weapons are supplied by the US. They would not buy them from Russia or anywhere else because no other country would give them concessions (btw didn't Russia want to buy stuff off Israel?).

Ironically you start misinforming people about Israel again but didn't finish the Israel debate in another thread where facts were presented to you.

[barney]

KSA gov is corrupt, and only kept in power with US help in order to keep US interests.

Israel arms much of its forces itself? Really? I think you'll find almost all Israel's weapons are supplied by the US. They would not buy them from Russia or anywhere else because no other country would give them concessions (btw didn't Russia want to buy stuff off Israel?).

Ironically you start misinforming people about Israel again but didn't finish the Israel debate in another thread where facts were presented to you.

Meh, threads drift away. I think i had said all i wanted to anyway, which was i suport Israels right to exist today, but not its setup. I also support a palastinian state. I think that any such state wouldnt bring peace as long as Israel exists.
yes Israel produces its own kit.

Kifr and Nesher jet fighters
Uzi SMG's
Galil assault rifles
Achzerit AFV's
Merkerva tanks
M71 howitzers

I could go on, but its pointless. You would probably say they were made by the US and smuggled into Israeli factories!
The only major US kit is the Apache, the F15 and 16's (Which the US always threatens to hold out parts on if Israel starts rattling sabers).

So the KSA cant get rid of its leaders because the US government thinks theyre the best of a bad bunch? Right! Thats the reason?

[Dagless]

Meh, threads drift away. I think i had said all i wanted to anyway, which was i suport Israels right to exist today, but not its setup. I also support a palastinian state. I think that any such state wouldnt bring peace as long as Israel exists.
yes Israel produces its own kit.

Kifr and Nesher jet fighters
Uzi SMG's
Galil assault rifles
Achzerit AFV's
Merkerva tanks
M71 howitzers

I could go on, but its pointless. You would probably say they were made by the US and smuggled into Israeli factories!
The only major US kit is the Apache, the F15 and 16's (Which the US always threatens to hold out parts on if Israel starts rattling sabers).

Amnesty did a report on every item supplied to Israel in the Gaza massacre, and where it came from. The conclusion was that almost all Israels weapons came from the US.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.p...NGMDE150122009

So the KSA cant get rid of its leaders because the US government thinks theyre the best of a bad bunch? Right! Thats the reason?

This is for another thread but without US support I feel they would have been overthrown many years ago. They are not the best of a bad bunch, they just do what they are told to. As long as they keep doing that the US will be happy. If they ever decide they want control of their resources they'll be replaced quicker than you can wave your Israeli flag.

[barney]

Its not pointless, and as with the other thread it would just help if you answered the questions asked, ie. where did you get this from?

Amnesty did a report on every item supplied to Israel in the Gaza massacre, and where it came from. The conclusion was that almost all Israels weapons came from the US.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.p...NGMDE150122009




This is for another thread but without US support I feel they would have been overthrown many years ago. They are not the best of a bad bunch, they just do what they are told to. As long as they keep doing that the US will be happy. If they ever decide they want control of their resources they'll be replaced quicker than you can wave your Israeli flag.

I am ex army and know the kit of most countries. the IDF website will provide you with the info if your interested. Other than that, simply look at any pictures or footage and spot the indiginous kit! its not hard!

To the KSA, oh just overthrow them if theyre that bad! Arab nations have an appauling record of getting rid of their own dictators, usually relying on the west to get rid of them. Just revolt or demonstrate or campaign. its not the Wests problem. Its KSA's.

I wont wave any israeli flag. i think if they wanted a homeland they should have had part of Canada, not some imaginary promised land based on ancient books.

[Dagless]

I am ex army and know the kit of most countries. the IDF website will provide you with the info if your interested. Other than that, simply look at any pictures or footage and spot the indiginous kit! its not hard!

The IDF website vs. Amnesty International?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

darl-al-kufr = house of heathens so to speak!

kufr is disbelief/unbelief... so house of disbelief...

but skye, dar in this sense means place, right not house :?

[Uthman]

I heard Abdur-Raheem Green say that some scholars have designated a third category - Dar al Imaanah (land of trust?) where there is an implicit contract between the Muslims and the government. The Muslims agree to obey the laws of the land and the government grants Muslims the freedom to practise their religion.

Allah know best. There's evidently some confusion surrounding this issue and hopefully the scholars will clear it up.

[Sampharo]

I am interested if the posters here would feel that America, Britain and Germany etc. are Dar al Harb or Dar al Islam???

By definition, America and the rest of Europe is Dar al-kufr, means House (metaphorically referring to land) of Disbelief. Dar al-kufr is a definition (not a feeling or opinion) of any country/nation/kingdom that is governed by disbelievers and primarily inhabited by disbelievers. The difference between it and dar al-harb (land of war) is that dar al-kufr has treaty(ies) and relation(s) with dar al-islam (land of Islam) countries and affords peaceful travel and trade between them.

What effects or obligations are incurred to Muslims in such a setting.

Oh there are lots and many, and scholars differ in the particulars of what are obligations and what are not. I advise you to search for articles online as this is a very broad subject. There are adjusted obligations for trading, dealing, promise of safe passage, law, etc.

[Muhammad]

And with these last two posts, I believe this thread has served its purpose.

Thread closed.