Do you have certainty of salvation?

[amyelaine]

Question for muslims:

Do you have certainty of salvation?

Can you be sure of your acceptance by God?

[siam]

In my opinion......
"certainty of salvation" (in the Christian sense)is neither important nor the purpose for why we are here on earth. God is most Compassionate, most Mericful.---human beings should avoid making arbitrary Judgements about "salvation" for this is an issue only God has the right to decide.

When God asked Iblis to "bow down" to Adam(pbuh), Iblis refused on the grounds of an arbitrary "value judgement" that he, being made of fire, was "superior" to Adam(pbuh) made of clay. Such "Iblisi logic" should be avoided.

[_ALI_]

Salam amyelaine

Do you have certainty of salvation?

Can you be sure of your acceptance by God?

One of the best thing about Islam is that we can never be 100% sure that we will go to heaven. Suppose if that was not the case then nothing would stop me from sinning. I would tell myself that even though God loves me and I love God, still since I have a place booked in heaven, why don't I go and steal? Why don't I go and murder others? God won't cancel my place in heaven if I do that. But because my seat in heaven is not confirmed, the fear of hell, along with the hope of heaven and the love of God, will keep me from sinning. However, that does not mean that God is cruel and we Muslims don't have a shot at getting into heaven. God is very merciful
039.053 قُلْ يَا عِبَادِيَ الَّذِينَ أَسْرَفُوا عَلَى أَنْفُسِهِمْ لا تَقْنَطُوا مِنْ رَحْمَةِ اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَغْفِرُ الذُّنُوبَ جَمِيعًا إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ
039.053 Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
039.054 وَأَنِيبُوا إِلَى رَبِّكُمْ وَأَسْلِمُوا لَهُ مِنْ قَبْلِ أَنْ يَأْتِيَكُمُ الْعَذَابُ ثُمَّ لا تُنْصَرُونَ
039.054 "Turn ye to our Lord (in repentance) and bow to His (Will), before the Penalty comes on you: after that ye shall not be helped.
Al-Qur'an, 039.053-054 (Az-Zumar [The Troops, Throngs])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910

Hence we say that if we belief in God and obey Him, we will InshAllah (God willing) go to heaven
Peace

[Grace Seeker]

One of the best thing about Islam is that we can never be 100% sure that we will go to heaven....


Hence we say that if we belief in God and obey Him, we will InshAllah (God willing) go to heaven
Peace

Would it be fair to say that you have a conditional belief iin salvation where, if you do XYZ in accordance with Allah's instructions, then you will go to heaven? Or is it, even then, still uncertain?

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[siam]

Its Uncertain-----

It is not simply "doing xyz" that counts---it is also our intentions.
God's will=Right belief that promotes right intentions that leads to right actions for the benefit of all of God's creations. In our life, we will no doubt do many things that are against "God's will" as stated above. We make mistakes, yet, God is forgiving and merciful. Nevertheless, the right to Judgement is God's not ours. We will be Judged on even an atoms weight of good as well as an atoms weight of bad. The goal is to ensure that the good we do, in both intent and action, outweighs any bad we may have done. Divine Judgement is about perfect Justice.

Islam is wholistic in that our belief, intentions and actions are all equally important.

[جوري]

Would it be fair to say that you have a conditional belief iin salvation where, if you do XYZ in accordance with Allah's instructions, then you will go to heaven? Or is it, even then, still uncertain?

Didn't I answer this question for you the other day under the requesting answers from Muslims thread? Why do you shop around for answers and then get annoyed when folks can't no longer be bothered?

[AhlaamBella]

Would it be fair to say that you have a conditional belief iin salvation where, if you do XYZ in accordance with Allah's instructions, then you will go to heaven? Or is it, even then, still uncertain?

There is no set formul but you do have a point. There are verses that say if you do such-and-such you will ener paradise. But that doesn't necessarily mean you won't go to Hell for certain sins first.

:wa:

[Grace Seeker]

Its Uncertain-----

It is not simply "doing xyz" that counts---it is also our intentions.
God's will=Right belief that promotes right intentions that leads to right actions for the benefit of all of God's creations. In our life, we will no doubt do many things that are against "God's will" as stated above. We make mistakes, yet, God is forgiving and merciful. Nevertheless, the right to Judgement is God's not ours. We will be Judged on even an atoms weight of good as well as an atoms weight of bad. The goal is to ensure that the good we do, in both intent and action, outweighs any bad we may have done. Divine Judgement is about perfect Justice.

Islam is wholistic in that our belief, intentions and actions are all equally important.

So, in Islam, is there no way -- through proper mix of belief, intentions, actions, thoughts, will, attitude, submission and whatever else I may have left out -- to have certainty with regard to salvation?

[Seeker1066]

Question for muslims:

Do you have certainty of salvation?

Can you be sure of your acceptance by God?

This does not only apply to Muslims. Catholics also reject the notion that Salvation can be attained without risk of loss. Another reason why as a Catholic I am drawn to Islam.

Peace to all

[siam]

I cannot speak for others---but personally, looking at my life, I am reasonably certain of the possibility that I may go to heaven. However, my "certainty" is not the issue---I am not the one to decide if I go to heaven or not---God will decide. "Certainty" is not what is important----what is important is that on this life on earth, through our belief, intentions and actions, we become a force for good.
I trust (and know) that God is Merciful and Comapssionate and that is good enough for me.

[Grace Seeker]

My understanding of "certainty" is that those who are in Christ can be as certain of our salvation as we are certain that God keeps his promises. If, in faith, one has died with Christ as expressed in baptism, then one will also be raised with Christ through being joined with him, both in this life and in the next. Of course, if we doubt God's promises, then nothing is certain.

I would expect the same is true for a follower of Islam. How can one be certain of anything (even one's own connection with Allah) if one doubts Allah's promises or his word? But isn't the converse of that also true? If in Islam, one has certainly with regard to Allah, wouldn't one also be able to have certainty with regard to his promises and his word? (That's a rhetorical question, btw.) So, how is it that Muslims don't express more certainty about their salvation? (Serious question.)

[siam]

God has promised perfect Justice tempered with Compassion and Mercy---Nothing more, nothing less. I believe and trust in his promise. "Right belief" in and of itself is useless unless it inspires in us the transformative force to promote right intentions that lead to right actions for the benefit of all of God's creatons. That is why we are here on earth.

[_ALI_]

Salam Grace Seeker

Would it be fair to say that you have a conditional belief iin salvation where, if you do XYZ in accordance with Allah's instructions, then you will go to heaven? Or is it, even then, still uncertain?

It is certain that if we do XYZ, we will go to heaven. It is uncertain that whether we do XYZ or not? Like as the Quran says

103.001 وَالْعَصْرِ
103.001 By (the Token of) Time (through the ages),
103.002 إِنَّ الإنْسَانَ لَفِي خُسْرٍ
103.002 Verily Man is in loss,
103.003 إِلا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالْحَقِّ وَتَوَاصَوْا بِالصَّبْرِ
103.003 Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
Al-Qur'an, 103.001-003 (Al-Asr [The Declining Day, Eventide, The Epoch])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Now it gives 4 conditions for salvation i.e faith, righteous deeds, calling people to truth and urging people to be steadfast and patience. How can I say that every deed I have committed is righteous? How can I say that I have called enough people to the truth. Practically, we cannot be perfect. But God helps us there too and He forgives our sins whenever we repent as I quoted in my previous post
039.053 Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

So, in Islam, is there no way -- through proper mix of belief, intentions, actions, thoughts, will, attitude, submission and whatever else I may have left out -- to have certainty with regard to salvation?

We will go to heaven according to God if we have faith and do righteous deeds, but like I said, we are uncertain not of the promise of God but of ourselves because practically we cannot do everything righteous. Still God forgives us whenever we ask.

My understanding of "certainty" is that those who are in Christ can be as certain of our salvation as we are certain that God keeps his promises. If, in faith, one has died with Christ as expressed in baptism, then one will also be raised with Christ through being joined with him, both in this life and in the next. Of course, if we doubt God's promises, then nothing is certain.

The problem with that certainty is that it cannot stop you from sinning. If I am so certain about my seat in heaven, what can stop me from stealing? Why should I earn through honest means and live simple instead of stealing and living happy?

I would expect the same is true for a follower of Islam. How can one be certain of anything (even one's own connection with Allah) if one doubts Allah's promises or his word?

Like I said, we don't doubt Allah's word, we doubt ourselves.

So, how is it that Muslims don't express more certainty about their salvation? (Serious question.)

Muslims don't usually say that: I am going to hell or something like that. We say that InshAllah I am going to heaven. Like I said before, if a guy is certain that he will go to heaven, he will have no incentive to avoid sins.
Peace

[Grace Seeker]

I think I see it better now. Siam, Ali, those were helpful responses. It still sounds like a lot of dependence on what you yourself do to merit God's approval. And so I can see why there would be the uncertainty that you express. But unless I mistated something here, it is a little clearer.


To answer your question:

The problem with that certainty is that it cannot stop you from sinning. If I am so certain about my seat in heaven, what can stop me from stealing? Why should I earn through honest means and live simple instead of stealing and living happy?

Nothing in my old life would. But what we mean by being "in Christ" is that we really understand that Christ lives in us. And Christ would never do those things. So, to the extent that we submit to God living in us through Jesus Christ, we are free from worrying about such things. It is only when we take back control of our lives by refusing to live submitted lives that we have to worry about the sins you mentioned. Sadly , that does happen sometimes, but how Christians deal with sin after coming to faith is too long and off topic to be fully addressed in this thread.