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hooreeya
03-04-2010, 11:44 AM
Brothers,

The Kingdm of Heaven in Christianity is the spiritual realm over which God reigns as King, or the eventual fulfillment of God's will on earth.

Will Muslims reign with God or not?

As we know during the second Coming of God Jesus, the born again Arabs and Jews- believers in Jesus will reign with Him.

What Qur'an says about this event?
Bahira

Reply

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Predator
03-08-2010, 05:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hooreeya
Brothers,

The Kingdm of Heaven in Christianity is the spiritual realm over which God reigns as King, or the eventual fulfillment of God's will on earth.

Will Muslims reign with God or not?

As we know during the second Coming of God Jesus, the born again Arabs and Jews- believers in Jesus will reign with Him.

What Qur'an says about this event?
Bahira

Correction , The Muslims with reign with Prophet Jesus(PBUH)

Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming
by Mufti A.H. Elias

I. Jesus (A.S.) In Islam

Muslims do believe that Isa (A.S.) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.

What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:

They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them.
(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)


Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (A.S.) says,

If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever.
(Bible, John 14-15/16)

But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
(Bible, John 15-26/27)

I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you.
(Bible, John 16-12/14)

Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).

In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) asks his followers to abide by.

The "person" whom Jesus (A.S.) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."

Jesus (A.S.) also says in the Bible,

... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father.
(Bible, John 16:16)

... and the Holy Qur'an says,

And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself.
(Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)

As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam=Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come." In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."

May Allah Guide all people to the Truth. Aameen.

(For more information about Jesus A.S. in Islam, Click Here)

II. Hadhrat Isa's (A.S.) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)

He will resemble the famous Sahabi (A.S.) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi (R.A.). He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.

His Descension

He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (A.S.). Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (A.S.) will descend. When descending, Isa (A.S.)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat. The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."

The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims

After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (A.S.). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.

Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.

III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (A.S.)

1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.
2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.
3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.
4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).
5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).
6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).
7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.
8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.
9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.
10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.
11 Jihad will be stopped.
12 No Khiraaj will be taken.
13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)
14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).
15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).
16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.
17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).
18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)'s stay in the world.
19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.
20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.
21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.
22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.
23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.
24 Will animals will not harm anyone.
25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.
26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.
27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.
28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.
29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.
30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (A.S.).

His Marriage, Death and Deputies

After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)

from: Hadhrat Esa (Alaihis Salaam): The Truth Revealed
and Major Signs of Qiyamat
by Mufti Afzal Hoosein Elias (May Allah reward him for his work in producing these kitaabs, aameen.)
from the original (with references): "Aalalaat-e-Qiyyamat aur Nuzul-e-Eesa."
Reply

Supreme
03-08-2010, 09:54 PM
Isn't proseltyzing other religions against the rules?
Reply

Grace Seeker
03-09-2010, 01:07 AM
Airforce, hooreeya asked what the Qur'an had to say on the subject of Christ's return. Now, maybe I missed it, but in your response, the only reference I could find to the Qur'an was a single citation -- Surah Nisaa, verse 157-158 -- though you did deign to bless us with it twice. That passage has nothing to do with Christ's actual return, but other aspects of Jesus' life.

You did include a lot of material about Christ's future return, but you didn't cite that any of it was actually from the Qur'an. Is it?

If so, can you please cite where?
If not, how does your answer address the question actually asked regarding what the Qur'an has to say about this event?
Reply

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جوري
03-09-2010, 01:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Airforce, hooreeya asked what the Qur'an had to say on the subject of Christ's return. Now, maybe I missed it, but in your response, the only reference I could find to the Qur'an was a single citation -- Surah Nisaa, verse 157-158 -- though you did deign to bless us with it twice. That passage has nothing to do with Christ's actual return, but other aspects of Jesus' life.

You did include a lot of material about Christ's future return, but you didn't cite that any of it was actually from the Qur'an. Is it?

If so, can you please cite where?
If not, how does your answer address the question actually asked regarding what the Qur'an has to say about this event?
why do you constantly ask the same Q's over and over?
Question: If Jesus (peace be upon him) is alive, shall he descend at the end of the time and judge among the people while following the religion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)? What is the evidence for that? And how can one refute those people who claim that he will not descend nor judge among the people?
Answer: Yes, the Prophet of Allah Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) will descend at the end of time and judge among the people with justice, following the Law of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). He will break the crosses and kill the swine. HE shall put an end to the payment of the jizya. He will only accept Islam from the people. The People of the Book, the Jews and Christians, will all believe in him before his death, after he descends at the end of time. Allah has stated, "There is none of the People of the book but must believe in him (as only a Messenger of Allah) before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them." [an-Nisa, 4:159]
Allah has stated that all of the People of the Book, Jews and Christians, will believe in Jesus son of Mary (peace be upon him) before his death - that is, before the death of Jesus. That will be when he descends at the end of time as a judge and just caller to Islam, as shall be noted in the hadith describing his descent.
This is the meaning of the words [in the verse quoted above]. The context of the verse is demonstrating the stance that the Jews took toward Jesus (peace be upon him) and what they conspired to do against him. It also shows the way of Allah in saving Jesus and refuting the works of his enemies. The pronouns in the phrase, "believe in him before his death" must both refer to Jesus to be consistent with the context and so that the antecedents will be the same. It is confirmed in numerous authentic hadith, that have come through numerous chains and have reached the level of mutawatir [narration that has been reported through so many chains and from so many people that there is no way to doubt its authenticity], that Allah raised Jesus to the heavens. They also state that he will descend at the end of time as a just ruler and will kill the False Messiah [Anti-Christ].
Ibn Taimiya said, after quoting the numerous chains reporting Jesus' being raised to heaven and his descent at the end of time, "These hadith are mutawatir from the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him). They have been narrated from Abu Huraira, Ibn Mas`ud, `Uthman ibn Abu al-as, Abu Umama, al-Nawas ibn Samaan, Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-As and Hudahifah ibn Usaid (may Allah be pleased with all of them). These hadith contain indications concerning how and where he will descend."
One of those hadith is the following: Abu Huraira reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "By the One in whose hand is my soul, soon the son of Mary will descend upon you as a just judge. He will break the crosses, kill the swine and will put an end to the jizya. And wealth will spread to the extent that on one will accept it." Then Abu Huraira said, "Recite if you wish, "There is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him (as only a Messenger of Allah) before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them."" [an-Nisa 4:159] [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]
In another narration from Abu Huraira, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "How will you be when the son of Mary descends among you and your leader will be from among yourselves?" [Al-Bukhari & Muslim] It is also confirmed in the Sahih from Jabir ibn Abdullah that he heard the Prophet (peace be upon him) say, "A group of people from my Nation will continue to fight in defense of the truth and remain triumphant until the day of Judgment." He also said, "Jesus, son of Mary (peace be upon him), will descend upon them and their leader will say (to him), 'Come and lead us in prayer.' He will say, 'No, Allah has honored this Nation by putting some as leaders over others.'" [Saheeh Muslim]
This hadith demonstrate that he will descend at the end of time and that he will judge according to the Law of our Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). They also show, without doubt, that there will be a leader for this nation at that time. Furthermore, there is no contradiction between his descending and the fact that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the seal of the prophets. This is so because Jesus will not be descending with a new law. To Allah belongs the decree, first and last. He does what He wills and rules as He wills. There is none to come after His Rule. He is the All-Mighty, All-Wise.
- Responded by the Permanent Committee, Fataawaa Islamiya, vol.1, p.141
Reply

Grace Seeker
03-09-2010, 01:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
why do you constantly ask the same Q's over and over?
First, I don't believe that I constant ask the same questions over and over. And though I suspect you don't really care and are just making an accusation, I shall nonetheless treat your questions as if your are perhaps serious in asking.

Here are the questions that I have asked:
You did include a lot of material about Christ's future return, but you didn't cite that any of it was actually from the Qur'an. Is it?
Asked because airforce did not cite where his material came from. I don't recognize his source and would like to know if it is from the Qur'an. For all I know it could be from the Hadith. Or, it could be part of Islamic folk tradition and not from Muhammad at all.

If so, can you please cite where?
Seems pretty obvious why one would ask this question. Since no source was cited, if the material airforce presented is from the Qur'an, I would like Surah and verse references.

If not, how does your answer address the question actually asked regarding what the Qur'an has to say about this event?
This seems equally obvious to me, but I recognize that it may not be as obvious to you. If a member, such as hooreeya, asks "What Qur'an says about this event?" and the respondent's answer does not include what the Qur'an actually has to say about the event, one wonders why the answer that was given was given, rather than actually addressing the question. Perhaps the respondent doesn't know what the Qur'an has to say on the subject, or perhaps the respondent knows that the Qur'an has nothing to say on the subject. Either way, it would be helpful for the respondent to clarify why he/she is not answering the actual question asked before providing the additional information.
Reply

جوري
03-09-2010, 01:52 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
First, I don't believe that I constant ask the same questions over and over. And though I suspect you don't really care and are just making an accusation, I shall nonetheless treat your questions as if your are perhaps serious in asking.

Here are the questions that I have asked:
Asked because airforce did not cite where his material came from. I don't recognize his source and would like to know if it is from the Qur'an. For all I know it could be from the Hadith. Or, it could be part of Islamic folk tradition and not from Muhammad at all.

Seems pretty obvious why one would ask this question. Since no source was cited, if the material airforce presented is from the Qur'an, I would like Surah and verse references.

This seems equally obvious to me, but I recognize that it may not be as obvious to you. If a member, such as hooreeya, asks "What Qur'an says about this event?" and the respondent's answer does not include what the Qur'an actually has to say about the event, one wonders why the answer that was given was given, rather than actually addressing the question. Perhaps the respondent doesn't know what the Qur'an has to say on the subject, or perhaps the respondent knows that the Qur'an has nothing to say on the subject. Either way, it would be helpful for the respondent to clarify why he/she is not answering the actual question asked before providing the additional information.
well now you know the Quranic verse and the ahatdih centered around it--

all the best
Reply

hooreeya
03-09-2010, 03:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
Correction , The Muslims with reign with Prophet Jesus(PBUH)

Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming
by Mufti A.H. Elias

I. Jesus (A.S.) In Islam
Brother salam,
I appreciate your reply. Thank you.
As we can see there is no reference about return of Jesus in Qur'an. So, what is the basis to believe that Qur'an is:
1. True Word of Allah- if Word of Allah is Jesus according to Qur'an and Bible
2. We know that fallen angels are able to deceive people and Jesus warned us about it- Muhammad received revelation not from Allah directly but from angel.
3. If there is NO evident love to you in Islam but only conditional love then what is the reason of such religion? Jesus died in our place on the cross to forgive and FORGET all our sins. Who has forgiven any of your sins in Islam?
4.Jesus according to your words, Jesus during His return should kill anti-Christ. But our God Jesus is HOLY bacause His Father is HOLY. And His teaching was NOT to kill but to give us LIFE ...ETERNAL LIFE in the Kingdom of Heaven.
He considers murders as abomination and sin. And sin is just UNACCEPTABLE to holy God. So, is your God not holy? Can makir be holy? Can sin be considered as holiness? Be careful on this wide road of Islam. Because Jesus said that many people will die and only some who will put their trust in God of Ibrahim- Jesus - will survive.
5. So, if Jesus is Ruh Allah and Word of Allah as Qur'an says and if He is exact representation of His God Father then you will be judged by Him for your disbelief in Him. Or you will be justified by Him through your FAITH in Him.
Your choice. But let's analyse are you going to hell with Islam or not? If Islam is pushing you to hell then there is ONLY ONE God of our father Ibrahim who is going to SAVE and FORGIVE you- His name is Jesus.

Who is ready to die for you in Islam? Who has been showing you LOVE in islam? If christian God is LOVE. Where is mercy in Islam if ONLY in forgiveness of ALL our sins we are set free through our FAITH in Isa Allah?
No, mercy, no love, revelations of angels, no forgiveness of sins, only hell fire is waiting for us in Islam and what is the reason to spend our lives in prayers and rituals to the God who:
1. in Islam was never Real and TREUE God of our father Ibrahim
3. Who never loved us
4. Who is pushing us to hell and does not do anything to stop us from entering the hell
5. Who is deceiving us by claiming to be makir and torturer
6. who is legitimeses lies in Qur'an.
7. Who is using people to populate hell (32:13).
.......
There is only one way to the Source of LOVE, Peace and Forgiveness - God Jesus. Who revealed us HOLY God Father by being exact represenation of Allah. Who is not human being BUT ALLAH and SALVATION for every Arab and Muslim who wil put his trust in Him.

Lord, Jesus, please save my brother "Airforce". Write his name in the Book of Life and let him be called Your son and Your Inheritance. Amen.

Bahira
Reply

جوري
03-09-2010, 03:32 AM
lol.. dude you can at least do him the courtesy of reading his post.. why do you waste your time and ours?

your brain on Christianity

Reply

hooreeya
03-09-2010, 04:30 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hooreeya
Brothers,

The Kingdm of Heaven in Christianity is the spiritual realm over which God reigns as King, or the eventual fulfillment of God's will on earth.

Will Muslims reign with God or not?

As we know during the second Coming of God Jesus, the born again Arabs and Jews- believers in Jesus will reign with Him.

What Qur'an says about this event?
Bahira

Brothers Arabs, Muslims,

are you not slaves of Allah in Islam?
So, how slaves can REIGN with Master?
Impossible!
So you will not reign with God.
But WHY?
Does Allah NOT love you? - YES.
Because only ONE God in the world ACCEPTED all our sins to His holy (according to Qur'an) BODY to forgive ALL our sins and justify us! His name is Isa Allah. It is TRUE LOVE and Rahma.
Even we - His creatures- are adopted by Him, forgiven and called His Inheritance- to live with Him eternally! He is not Master for us anymore but our FATHER- Baba.
You can be with Him, not AGAINST Him, by puting your TRUST in His LOVE.

Bahira
Reply

hooreeya
03-09-2010, 04:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
lol.. dude you can at least do him the courtesy of reading his post.. why do you waste your time and ours?

your brain on Christianity


In Hadith yes...but not in Qur'an.
Reply

جوري
03-09-2010, 05:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hooreeya

In Hadith yes...but not in Qur'an.
Except the that I have posted directly from the Quran, which you haven't bothered to read anymore than what preceded it.. to be honest I don't have a desire to engage you further, I think you are a poster person for all the ills of Christianity starting with ignorance and indoctrination and on to intolerance and under-education and so on.. I do myself a disservice replying to you all together..

all the best
Reply

north_malaysian
03-09-2010, 05:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hooreeya

As we know during the second Coming of God Jesus, the born again Arabs and Jews- believers in Jesus will reign with Him.
erm... only 20% of Muslims are Arabs.. and this is a Muslim forum, not an Arab forum...
Reply

Predator
03-09-2010, 06:52 PM
2. We know that fallen angels are able to deceive people and Jesus warned us about it- Muhammad received revelation not from Allah directly but from angel.
Its Paul who received reveleation from a Fallen angel which is why he has devilish advice in his book and Blasphemes God

Doctor Paul’s advise, don’t drink water, drink only wine.

"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities"

(1 Tim. 5:23)

Paul is a blasphemer


For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
(1 Corinthians 1:25)

Leviticus 24:16
anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death.

Paul is against the teachings of Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him).



Jesus says…



Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever will break one least of these commandments and shall teach men so shall be called last in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you unless your righteosness exceeds the righteosness of the Scribes and Pharisees, you shall in no case enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mathew 5:17-20


Paul says...

'Christians' are dead to the Law of God through the body of Christ.
(Romans 7:14)



3. If there is NO evident love to you in Islam but only conditional love then what is the reason of such religion? Jesus died in our place on the cross to forgive and FORGET all our sins. Who has forgiven any of your sins in Islam?

When an innocent man is given punishment for something he didn’t do, he must be compensated for this punishment. This is fair and understandable. An example in today’s time would be Maher Arar, a Syrian-Canadian who is a Muslim that got accused of being a terrorist by US officials. This man as innocent as he was of this accusation, was deported to Syria and placed in prison for a year, where he was put through torture. Later, he was released and recently he was granted $10.5 Million Canadian as compensation for his time and suffering. This man was innocent and indeed was deserving of compensation.



The Christian argument goes that God came as Jesus; he was sinless and died on the cross, and was compensated by being brought back to life and in addition getting all of mankind’s sins wiped away. Technically, Jesus shouldn’t have been compensated for anything.


God, in the Hebrew (Old) Testament has had many situations where he commands atrocities and then repents for the actions committed.

In II Samuel 24:15-16 after 70,000 people are killed, and God puts an end to the command and repents for this great disaster.



II Samuel 24:15-16
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died.

16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem; the LORD was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, Enough! Withdraw your hand. The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite.



So as we read here after the 70,000 people were killed, the God of the bible repents and puts an end to the calamity.



Who knew that God has regrets?



So basically in a Questions and Answers conversation between a Muslim and a Christian, it seems you’d find something along these lines happening…

Muslim: Why don’t all the dead people get compensated by being brought back to life? Christian: Well these people were corrupted individuals who died and it was necessary at the time that they be killed.

Muslim: So, you believe that all the people who died were corrupted? No one was an innocent bystander by any chance?

Christian: Well, there might have been a couple here and there.

Muslim: So how do they get compensated?

Christian: That’s up to God.

Muslim: Fair enough. So what about all the other corrupted individuals who didn’t die, who probably survived and weren’t put to death?

Christian: Jesus died for their sins!



I am honestly less than pleased with the answer “Jesus died for our sins.”

With the above made clear, it causes us to really want to know whose sins did Jesus (as God) really die for?



In Zephaniah 2:12-15 we find God stating;

12 You too, O Cu****es, will be slain by my sword.

13 He will stretch out his hand against the north and destroy Assyria, leaving Nineveh utterly desolate and dry as the desert.

14 Flocks and herds will lie down there, creatures of every kind. The desert owl and the screech owl will roost on her columns. Their calls will echo through the windows, rubble will be in the doorways, the beams of cedar will be exposed.

15 This is the carefree city that lived in safety. She said to herself, I am, and there is none besides me. What a ruin she has become, a lair for wild beasts! All who pass by her scoff and shake their fists.



This shows a lot of murderous anger and hatred coming from the end of God (assuming he’s Jesus).



Now, we go a little further into this article and point out once again, that Jesus is God according to the Christians and that many atrocities have been performed by the command of God. Be reminded also that God repents for these atrocities. However, as nice as this “repentance” may appear that comes from God’s end each time an atrocity occurs, it does not really bring back these people from the dead or grant them any form of compensation.



The 6th commandment of “Do Not Murder” is clear and its consequences are elaborated in Genesis 9:6; “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed” where the sin for murder is compensated through executing the murderer. This is the implication of capital punishment, where a man who kills must be killed. Repentance on its own is not prescribed as a way of compensating for the sin of murder. In other words, if I were to murder someone and I were to be judged by the laws of the bible, me apologizing to the family of the victim and/or repenting, wouldn’t cut it; I would need to undergo execution. In the case of God, where he supposedly comes as man, it would be fair to say that in the end Jesus didn’t die for the sins of mankind, but rather for his own personal commands of murder in the Old Testament. So we conclude that justice was served, by the death of Jesus on the cross. Therefore, it can’t be possible that The Son died for the sins of man but if anything, he died for the sins of The Father.


Christians put their faith in Jesus Christ, because they believe he died for their sins, I have just come to point out that if anyone died for anyone’s sins, its more or less for his own. The contradiction behind the belief of Jesus dying for mankind’s sins is clear and should no longer be used as a segue into the Christian doctrine. Christians need to see the fault behind the reasoning of their faith in Christ, and should not worship Jesus as a middleman between themselves and God. Rather, we should all focus on God alone and to only worship him, to accept that Jesus was only a mere man created by God, as were Adam & Eve and every other creation of the Almighty


4.Jesus according to your words, Jesus during His return should kill anti-Christ. But our God Jesus is HOLY bacause His Father is HOLY. And His teaching was NOT to kill but to give us LIFE ...ETERNAL LIFE in the Kingdom of Heaven.He considers murders as abomination and sin. And sin is just UNACCEPTABLE to holy God. So, is your God not holy? Can makir be holy? Can sin be considered as holiness? Be careful on this wide road of Islam. Because Jesus said that many people will die and only some who will put their trust in God of Ibrahim- Jesus - will survive.
Jesus didnt kill anyone . Oh really ?

One of the most common claim made by Christians is that Jesus never killed anybody. They often always bring this up against Muslims as if to show that the prophet Muhammad was a bad person because he killed people. Before refuting the myth that Jesus never killed anyone, we must also expose the Christian double standard and the Christian weak line of argument. If Jesus is great, and the prophet Muhammad is bad because he killed people, then so is Moses, and so is David.



The OT shows us a lot of battles that both Moses and David took part in, and both these men killed a lot of people, including women and children. Yet when we show this to Christians, they simply ignore it, or try to justify it. Yet what is most inconsistent about this is that if the prophet Muhammad kills people in battle or war, the Christian goes mad and starts screaming out 'false prophet! Such inconsistency from the Christian only exposes the Christian's deceptive character, and shows that these Christians dont have no holy spirit in them.



Now let us go back to the main topic, which is refuting the Christian propaganda lie that Jesus never killed anyone. As you all know, Christians always make the claim that Jesus is God, they claim that Jesus is the same God of the OT. So basically what we have is this:



1- Jesus is God
2- Jesus is the God of the Old Testement
3- Christians believe that the OT is the inspired word of God
4- The OT is authentic to the Christian
5- The God in the OT is Jesus



So since Jesus is the God of the OT, we shall now look at the God of the OT ordering the KILLINGS of many people:



Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist



Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."


This is just an examples the God in the OT ordering the death and destruction of the people. In fact the verses are very explicit; the God of the OT is making it clear that it is HIS SWORD which shall slay the people.

So since Jesus is God, and is the God of the OT, this means that it was Jesus who ordered these killings and it was Jesus who killed all these people! Hence the Christian myth is DEBUNKED. Jesus did kill, and Jesus ordered the killings of women and children, the fact that Christians claim that Jesus never killed anyone is a plane intentional lie by the Christians. We must ask why would the Christians make such a blatant lie? And it also leaves us with another question, which is what else do the Christians lie about? What other myths and propaganda do they create on their made up faith? We can only guess, but no doubt each lie will get caught and exposed.


5. Your choice. But let's analyse are you going to hell with Islam or not? .
You might think you're going to Heaven when you're not!

It's ironic how Christians constantly repeat the following nonsense: "If you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, and that he is your savior, then you will go to Heaven."

I heard this phrase from almost every single Christian missionary that I debated. Let us see how truthful this claim really is:

"Many will say to me (Jesus) on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 7:22-23)"

These verses clearly prove that believing in Jesus as the "Savior" who died on the cross for our sins may not necessarily really save us, hence this refutes the nonsense that the Christian missionaries keep repeating, because they themselves may not be saved and are going to Hell without even knowing it.



Let us look at further verses from the Bible that prove that most Christians are going to Hell:

Adultery is prohibited in the Bible, and that's perfectly fine with me:

Deuteronomy 22:22 "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die."

Leviticus 20:10 "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death."

Proverbs 6:32 "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself." He destroys himself by being put to death as shown above.

But here comes the part that will cause most Christians of today to go to Hell:

Matthew 19:9 "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Mark 10:11 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her."

Mark 10:12 "And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Since adultery is clearly prohibited in the Bible, and since most Western Christians today are divorced and are either living with their boyfriends/girlfriends or married to other people, wouldn't that cause for them to be thrown in Hell? After all, most Western Christians according to the Bible are committing adultery!

So to all of you divorced (except for marital unfaithfulness) Christians out there, YOU ARE ALL GOING TO HELL!

Why do I think that adultery in the Bible would cause a person to go to Hell? Read the following:

Let us look at further verses from the Bible that prove that most Christians are going to Hell:

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 5:29)"

As a Muslim, I can appreciate putting laws against sexual sinning and adultery. But the above verse is quite ironic! It clearly states that if any Christian (including our missionary friends) sins, even by looking at another human being lustfully, he/she better get rid of the body part that sinned instead of suffering the Eternal torture of Hell.

Come on now! To all of you Christian men and women out there, including your priests and ministers (who on many occasions end up raping and child molesting), how many times did you "masturbate"?! Oh well, I hate to break the bad news to you, but YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HELL ACCORDING TO YOUR BIBLE!


No, mercy, no love, revelations of angels, no forgiveness of sins, only hell fire is waiting for us in Islam and what is the reason to spend our lives in prayers and rituals to the God who:
3. Who never loved us
You dumb Liar .

[85:15] And He is the Most Forgiving, the Loving;



4. Who is pushing us to hell and does not do anything to stop us from entering the hell
He does not push you to hell . You dig your own graves with your evil deeds like Shirk,Murder,Adultery and then get yourself pushed into hell .


6. who is legitimeses lies in Qur'an.
More BS with no proof whatsoever


Lord, Jesus, please save my brother "Airforce". Write his name in the Book of Life and let him be called Your son and Your Inheritance. Amen.

Reply

Grace Seeker
03-09-2010, 11:41 PM
Is it time to close this thread?


Both Muslims and Christians believe Jesus returns at the time of the final resurrection:

"There is none of the People of the book but must believe in him (as only a Messenger of Allah) before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he (Jesus) will be a witness against them." [an-Nisa, 4:159]


"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." (1 Thessalonians 4:16)

Any other comparison between the Bible and Islamic views on this final resurrection or the last days of this present age require one to turn to the collection of sayings called the Hadith for what Muslims believe, for there is nothing else written in the Qur'an. Christian teaching is likewise scattered amongst many books as well (1 Thessalonians, 1 Peter, Daniel, Revelation, and more), they're just all collected in convenient library called the Bible.

With those sources listed, I would recommend for people to go and search for details themselves as this conversation appears to have drifted off topic and the personal attacks aren't portraying either Christians or Muslims in a very positive light to our non-believing readers.
Reply

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