What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism

[Uncle Jee]

I'm getting increasingly fed up of hearing how Muslims in the UK don't do enough to combat extremism, how our silence on extremist matters is deafening and even that by doing nothing we are showing our silent support to extremists.

Now the questions i have are;

1- What can we do about the extremists?

2 - How can we distance ourselves from them?

3 - Will Joe public ever be happy with any of our efforts?

4 - Any other idea on how we can actually change public opinion that the majority of Muslims are normal folk etc etc...

5 - Anything?

[Uthman]

One thing we could do is make sure Friday sermons are actually delivered in English at all mosques in the UK so that young Muslims can relate to them.

[Raphael]

One thing we could do is make sure Friday sermons are actually delivered in English at all mosques in the UK so that young Muslims can relate to them.

A good point. Its frustrating when I go to a Jummah when I am out of town only to find the khutbah being delivered in Urdu or Bengali.

Regardless of if 99% of the audience can understand the language, it is usually the ones that feel left out, and abandoned by all peer groups, who find extremism, whether that be "Islamic" or any other kind so appealing.

[Supreme]

One thing we could do is make sure Friday sermons are actually delivered in English at all mosques in the UK so that young Muslims can relate to them.

Amen to that! And also so that non Muslim visitors to the mosque can tell what's going on. Good dawah in that sense.

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[Raphael]

Good dawah in that sense.

I haven't been here for a while, but sure does seem like you've picked up the lingo ol' boy!

[Pygoscelis]

The common perception, right or wrong, is that muslims will side with their "brothers and sisters" (other muslims) over non-muslims, even when they are wrong. Tribalism is an ugly thing and it is perceived in Islam.

Whether this actually does or doesn't happen is a bit of a side issue. It is seen to. It could be a matter of confirmation bias why people fail to notice the many muslims speaking out against things like 9/11 and instead focus on small groups of them who celebrated it.

[Uthman]

Seeing as the question is about what we, as Muslims, can do to combat extremism, a reasonable approach would be to consider what causes extremists to turn to extremism in the first place and tackle that head on.

So what does cause extremists to turn to extremism? Common answers include American and British foreign policy and/or an incorrect interpretation of the Qur'an or possibly both. What do we think? On that issue, I came across an interesting article on MuslimMatters some time ago which I am inclined to agree with (not because I want to agree with it, but because it actually made sense to me) which can be found here.

While we're at it, a definition of extremism would be useful as well. May I assume that we're talking about violent extremism (i.e. terrorism) here? The reason I ask is because terrorism is something that is judged to be extreme by both orthodox Islam and the West. On the other hand, there are some issues which the west may judge to be extreme, but orthodox Islam does not. An example of this would be the wearing of the face veil.

[Saghas]

Be vocal about how you do not support terrorism, whenever a bunch of radicals do a demonstration, have a counter-demonstration and show people the other side of Islam. I know a lot of folk in the UK that hate and fear Muslims because they fear that all Muslims want to destroy the UK. They think there are two types- the ones who speak what they are thinking, and the ones that keep it to themselves. Show them that you are neither.

[The_Prince]

you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.

now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.

many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.

what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.

heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!

last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?

[AhlaamBella]

What I find interesting is the definition of extremism. At first I thought it was a reference to those who attack and kill innocent people in the name of Islam. Yet when I was watching Dispatches the other day, an extremist was apparently someone who believes women should cover, not wear perfume, men and women shouldn't mix etc. I believe all these things. Am I therefore an extremist by western standards?

[Saghas]

you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.

now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.

many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.

what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.

heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!

last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?

You have to understand though, in these people's view Islam is a direct threat to their race, culture, religion everything they stand for. A heck of a lot of Muslims are coming into the UK now. Turn the situation around, if millions of white European Christians all of a sudden starting moving to the Mid East and starting building churches all over the place, and outnumbered the natives in many areas then you would feel threatened too. The English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish just want to preserve their own people, culture, and religion in their homeland. Some of them feel threatened enough to get "extreme". I personally know a few fellas in England who live in towns where they are one of the few native English left and they have lived there their entire lives. I would be upset too if I was in their position...

[جوري]

You have to understand though, in these people's view Islam is a direct threat to their race, culture, religion everything they stand for. A heck of a lot of Muslims are coming into the UK now. Turn the situation around, if millions of white European Christians all of a sudden starting moving to the Mid East and starting building churches all over the place, and outnumbered the natives in many areas then you would feel threatened too. The English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish just want to preserve their own people, culture, and religion in their homeland. Some of them feel threatened enough to get "extreme". I personally know a few fellas in England who live in towns where they are one of the few native English left and they have lived there their entire lives. I would be upset too if I was in their position...

Greetings saghas,

imagine how all those people felt then when their countries were under British occupation, their resources depleted and funneled to England as their countries were mere colonies and their fellow country men killed even in peaceful demonstrations?

I am not saying that the threat they feel isn't real.. but what were they expecting? It is the natural order of life.. Karma if you will ......

all the best

[Saghas]

Greetings saghas,

imagine how all those people felt then when their countries were under British occupation, their resources depleted and funneled to England as their countries were mere colonies and their fellow country men killed even in peaceful demonstrations?

I am not saying that the threat they feel isn't real.. but what were they expecting? It is the natural order of life.. Karma if you will ......

all the best

True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...

[Uncle Jee]

Thanks for the replies people...

Whilst i agree with the anything to do with Islam is extreme thing thats being shoved all over the press. I constantly face the accusal that i'm not doing enough to control our extreme elements. In fact i don't even know where to start. I genuinely believe that as Muslims in the UK it's only a matter of time before the host populous accept extreme and violent measures against us and i really don't want my son to go through any of that.

The simple answer is to move to a Muslim country. However as i'm born and bred in the UK no matter how grey the skies are, how crap the weather is at the end of the day it is 'home'. Our thinking, humour and lifestyle is very British indeed but obviously with Islam in mind.

[جوري]

True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...

I understand the movement and all Muslims are well aware, as it is one of the signs of the end of times according to Islam:

Minor Signs of the Last Day BODY

1. General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
2. Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
   (Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

http://www.islaam.org/Al_Mahdi/minor_signs.htm

peace

[Saghas]

I genuinely believe that as Muslims in the UK it's only a matter of time before the host populous accept extreme and violent measures against us and i really don't want my son to go through any of that.

You have no idea...I don't mean to frighten you or anything but I travel in circles that have interaction with these guys and so I know their numbers and their strength. They work tirelessly to push for those "extreme and violent measures". Some of them are insane and racist, but most are very well educated and normal folk who know more about Islam than you would think but they still are fighting to get you guys out...

Here in the US we are used to having wave and wave of immigrants with different religions and cultures but the UK doesn't have that kind of experience. They just don't know how to deal with it.

[Saghas]

I understand the movement and all Muslims are well aware, as it is one of the signs of the end of times according to Islam:

Minor Signs of the Last Day BODY

1. General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
2. Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
   (Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

http://www.islaam.org/Al_Mahdi/minor_signs.htm

peace

interesting, I know a lot of my fellow Catholics think that the End is upon us but do a lot of Muslims believe the same?

[Supreme]

True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...

It's not fear of conversion; it's more resent, resent that people (Muslims mostly but other minorities) are 'coming over here and taking all our jobs', so to speak. Add to that the poor media coverage of Muslims, and well...

I dropped Religious Education two years ago, and Islam was never mentioned. Heck, it wasn't even proper RE- just looking briefly at abortion, marriage and the like and what various Christian denominations believe about them. I think education is a real issue, and as Nelson Mandela once said:

"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world."

The simple answer is to move to a Muslim country. However as i'm born and bred in the UK no matter how grey the skies are, how crap the weather is at the end of the day it is 'home'. Our thinking, humour and lifestyle is very British indeed but obviously with Islam in mind.

Crap weather? Never too hot, never too cold, with not a single incident of a major hurricane or tornado or drought in living memory- I think it's a good climate.

[جوري]

interesting, I know a lot of my fellow Catholics think that the End is upon us but do a lot of Muslims believe the same?

absolutely, you'd be surprised how accurate the minor and major signs (some which are under-way) have been thus far..

here are some articles if you are interested:

http://islamworld.net/docs/hour/index.htm (Dajjal)= anti-christ

http://www.lutonmuslims.co.uk/Signs.htm

http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=402


peace

[Saghas]

It's not fear of conversion; it's more resent, resent that people (Muslims mostly but other minorities) are 'coming over here and taking all our jobs', so to speak. Add to that the poor media coverage of Muslims, and well...

Yeah, its not just Muslims its all non-white folk really. Agreed, the fear of forced conversion might be there but it is more of a general hatred...unfortunately

[Saghas]

absolutely, you'd be surprised how accurate the minor and major signs (some which are under-way) have been thus far..

here are some articles if you are interested:

http://islamworld.net/docs/hour/index.htm (Dajjal)= anti-christ

http://www.lutonmuslims.co.uk/Signs.htm

http://www.islaam.com/Article.aspx?id=402


peace

interesting, thanks

[جوري]

interesting, thanks

my pleasure.. hope it is an enjoyable read for you!

peace

[Uncle Jee]

You have no idea...I don't mean to frighten you or anything but I travel in circles that have interaction with these guys and so I know their numbers and their strength. They work tirelessly to push for those "extreme and violent measures". Some of them are insane and racist, but most are very well educated and normal folk who know more about Islam than you would think but they still are fighting to get you guys out...

Here in the US we are used to having wave and wave of immigrants with different religions and cultures but the UK doesn't have that kind of experience. They just don't know how to deal with it.

Numbers and strength doesn't bother me really. If my time is up then my time is up, nothing i can do can change that.

I grew up with a lot of racism and it took me a while to realise that not all white people are the same so i have no resentment towards white people at all. However i really don't want my son to go through any of that. I was lucky enough to see through all the garbage. Will my son be able to? Who knows....

[Supreme]

Yeah, its not just Muslims its all non-white folk really. Agreed, the fear of forced conversion might be there but it is more of a general hatred...unfortunately

True, but Britain is no wear near as racist as America. The reason many white, lower class working people dislike immigrants in this country is essentially a class issue, not a race issue. Britain has always had more of a problem with class, whereas America has always had more of a problem with race.

[Muezzin]

I'm getting increasingly fed up of hearing how Muslims in the UK don't do enough to combat extremism, how our silence on extremist matters is deafening and even that by doing nothing we are showing our silent support to extremists.

Now the questions i have are;

1- What can we do about the extremists?

Educate the true teachings of Islam, try and stop vulnerable young men asking the wrong people for advice, try and stop the wrong people being put in a position where they can give such advice in the first place.

On a macro-level, we have to be able to discuss things civilly with other Muslims - learning to actually talk through disagreements, rather than instantly reacting in a hostile manner to a Muslim who disagrees with our own perceived understanding of Islam. So, the more 'militant' Muslims should not call the more 'peaceful' ones hypocrites simply for thinking differently, and vice versa - instead they should actually discuss their differing interpretations in order to find the middle (and probably correct) ground. All in light of scholars' interpretations, with the Quran and Sunnah on the highest rung of the intellectual ladder.

2 - How can we distance ourselves from them?

Well, if the more jittery members of the Islam-hating (sorry, terrorism hating) proponents of the war on terror are to be believed, terrorists (the 'evil' Muslims) plot in secret, undetectable, and yet their 'good and righteous' counterparts are expected to somehow detect and prevent these people from committing atrocities. Which the 'evil' ones plot in secret. Which means they lie to others. Which means they're not easy to detect. Which means you probably won't find them unless you're actively looking for them. Which means this is the job of secret service types.

3 - Will Joe public ever be happy with any of our efforts?

If the Internet is to be believed, Joe Public views the perceived silence of Muslims regarding terrorism with suspicion, and focuses only on the minority who celebrate such atrocities. You know, the 'Judge the Group by the Vocal Troublemaking Minority Who Nobody Else in the Same Group Agrees With' method.

If we are to regard this approach as accurate, then according to this thread about a prominent Muslim unequivocally condemning terrorism, in which the sole non-Muslim member replying at the time of writing, expresses dissatisfaction over the most ridiculous of semantic points - then no, Joe Public will never be happy with any of our efforts.

Fortunately, I think that judging an entire group by its vocal minority of troublemakers is idiotic, if predictable human behaviour.

Also, since when has preventing terrorism had anything to do with placating Joe Public? If we want to help stop a problem, we have to do so out of a genuine desire to solve the problem, not to win over the crowd. That's not to say winning over the crowd is not desirable or neccessary, it's just popularity or reputation should not inform a person's decision to help solve the problem of terrorism.

4 - Any other idea on how we can actually change public opinion that the majority of Muslims are normal folk etc etc...

Just live your life as a good Muslim, law-abiding citizen, hard worker, and friendly presence, without getting involved in terrorism.

Which is what 99% of Muslims (and people in general) are doing (or trying to do) anyway.

I don't really believe in 'changing public opinion'. It's too fickle. Other people will think what they think.

5 - Anything?

If you want to help solve the problem of terrorism, don't make popularity your motivation.

[Joe98]

Show them that you don't want to convert all of them .........

I agree. Muslims can live by their values and at the same time show that they don't want to convert anybody.

-

[Eliphaz]

I feel Islamist extremism is a more accurate term as it (1) avoids labeling an act of terrorism as "Islamic" whilst (2) focusses on the acts itself rather than getting sidetracked into niqabs and other such issues.

Watching the Dispatches programme it is obvious that the internet plays a huge role in creating Islamist extremists. The internet allows extremists to meet other extremists quite easily even though they may live worlds apart. This makes it easier to recruit vulnerable people and feed them with propaganda.

But our (Western) foreign policy doesn't help. Our governments created alot of the resentment which fuels this propaganda.

Realistically I agree with Br. Uthman - if the khutbas are in English this will prevent Muslim children who perhaps cannot speak Arabic or Urdu from being alienated by their own community. This would be quite easy to do and would have widespread effects.

I also feel we should avoid getting into discussions about the 'end times' as this always carries a sense of complacent fatalism where one accepts that there is no hope for peaceful coexistence. We have to believe that there is.

[waqas maqsood]

Isnt just weird how the termonology 'extremist' has been related to Islam in recent years.

Never heard of such word back in early 90's... until recently...

Any excuse needed to go against a peaceful religion..

With regards to Khutbas in English, what about all the brothers that don't understand English and prefer them to be in their own language..

One way to solve this problem is to bring in the khilafah system....

[Life_Is_Short]

An interesting topic discussed on 'The Big Questions' on BBC today:

Do we misunderstand Islam?


Fast forward to second question, 22.18.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.

now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.

many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.

what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.

heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!

last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?

that.

.............

[Skavau]

Isnt just weird how the termonology 'extremist' has been related to Islam in recent years.

Never heard of such word back in early 90's... until recently...

Not really.

'Extremist' is now used to describe people who take their personal beliefs, religious beliefs or political beliefs to extreme levels. Au contrare from being a term invoked by anti-muslims it appears to be a term negotiated in defence of the mainstream Muslim. After all, it is rather self-defeating to use the term 'extremist' (the abnormal by definition) in order to attempt to discredit the average Muslim. Just consider how it is used.

[waqas maqsood]

lol... equivalent to a wikipaedia answer..

So is it wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level?

[Skavau]

lol... equivalent to a wikipaedia answer..

So is it wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level?

I gave you an explanation for why I think the term 'extremist' exists. Lets put it into perspective (and I don't believe it was concoted by anti-muslims): I do not expect someone who despises Islam and/or Muslims is going to distinguish a difference between an 'extremist' and a 'moderate'. They are far more likely to consider all Muslims an issue rather than just some of the more literal or devoted ones.

In any case, it can be wrong to take your religious belief to an 'extreme' level, yes. A Christian who demands that the United States ought to be run by specific moral standards found in the old testament proposes dangerous stuff. People similarly who vote to remove the rights of others based on their own beliefs are wrong in doing so. It matters not to me (in a moral sense), whether the actions of someone is 'extreme' or not but rather how they impact on the lives of others.

[waqas maqsood]

I gave you an explanation for why I think the term 'extremist' exists. Lets put it into perspective (and I don't believe it was concoted by anti-muslims): I do not expect someone who despises Islam and/or Muslims is going to distinguish a difference between an 'extremist' and a 'moderate'. They are far more likely to consider all Muslims an issue rather than just some of the more literal or devoted ones.

In any case, it can be wrong to take your religious belief to an 'extreme' level, yes. A Christian who demands that the United States ought to be run by specific moral standards found in the old testament proposes dangerous stuff. People similarly who vote to remove the rights of others based on their own beliefs are wrong in doing so. It matters not to me (in a moral sense), whether the actions of someone is 'extreme' or not but rather how they impact on the lives of others.

Well.. I guess everyone is entitled to share their opinion...

I can now see why country like France wanted to dissociated religion from politics..

I totally disagree with the concept that it is wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level.
You just quoted that if a Christian demands the US to be ran by specific moral stadards found in the Old testament proposes to be dangerous stuff..... THEN THATS WHAT I CALL TERRORISM..

[Uthman]

:salamext:

An interesting topic discussed on 'The Big Questions' on BBC today:

Do we misunderstand Islam?


Fast forward to second question, 22.18.

Yeah, I saw that. Mashaa'Allah, the women who had converted did very well in dispelling misconceptions about Islam.

[Raphael]

It all depends on the definition of extreme...

I would describe most main stream Muslims as 'extremely' self centred and lazy in their "affections" of their "brothers and sisters" who are being slaughtered on an almost daily basis around the globe.

So many arm chair warriors!

[Pygoscelis]

Tribalism is the problem, not the solution. If you think about your "muslim brothers and sisters" instead of just fellow human beings and get all enraged in a tribal way, you are falling into exactly the same mind trap that the westerners do, the ones who count the american soldiers and civilians who died (their tribe) in Iraq but paid no attention to how many Iraqis died (not their tribe).

[Pygoscelis]

I agree. Muslims can live by their values and at the same time show that they don't want to convert anybody.

-

Yes, this would help for sure. Not sure if people would believe them though (that they don't seek to convert us or force their ways on us). Not after the Christian example in the west anyway.

[waqas maqsood]

^^ a little off topic...

Pygoscelis... Thats is some ugly dog on your avatar

With regards to your previous post, we do not force the message of Islam but convey in a peaceful manner.. You can believe whatever you see on different channel of media but we have a purpose to convey the true religion in a peaceful, manner way... NOT force it down your throat of course..

It's upto you at the end of the day of accept it or reject it..

It's so surprising that an atheist believes theres no God but believes in the air theu breathe in, even though they cannot see it...

[Pygoscelis]

^^ a little off topic...

Pygoscelis... Thats is some ugly dog on your avatar

It's my dog, Cody after his bath. I thought the photo was cartoon like with the ears sticking way out. Anyway, he thanks you for the compliment on his appearance and returns the compliment, ugly human.

It's so surprising that an atheist believes theres no God but believes in the air theu breathe in, even though they cannot see it...

There are many things we can't see but know are there: Oxygen, radio waves, etc. The difference between these and gods is that these are detectable and tangible and theories are built around these which are then scrutinized in great detail.

[Justufy]

I'm getting increasingly fed up of hearing how Muslims in the UK don't do enough to combat extremism, how our silence on extremist matters is deafening and even that by doing nothing we are showing our silent support to extremists.

Now the questions i have are;

1- What can we do about the extremists?

2 - How can we distance ourselves from them?

3 - Will Joe public ever be happy with any of our efforts?

4 - Any other idea on how we can actually change public opinion that the majority of Muslims are normal folk etc etc...

5 - Anything?

I think that the best thing would be to consider the fact that you live in a country with values that are very different from those extremist muslim or even moderate ones share, the public does not have a very good oppinion of muslims in general, you all fit in the same basket for them. And the fact that silence is being kept in moderate muslim community is being seen as a form of support. For isntance when caricatures or satire are made of the prophet muslims get very vocal around the world, burning embassys and whatnot. I guess the people of the united Kingdom would like to see a little bit of that in regard to extremism.

[جوري]

What Muslims can do in England is rise up and turn it into an Islamic caliphate insha'Allah.. people will always have an opinion, who frankly cares? are you here to please people or please God?

[waqas maqsood]

it's my dog, cody after his bath. I thought the photo was cartoon like with the ears sticking way out. Anyway, he thanks you for the compliment on his appearance and returns the compliment, ugly human.

Ouch! Animal comment has really hurt my feeling! Lol

there are many things we can't see but know are there: Oxygen, radio waves, etc. The difference between these and gods is that these are detectable and tangible and theories are built around these which are then scrutinized in great details.

wow! Believing in science and theories! Thats like believing in fairy tales.. Some are true/some can be false

what about the moon, stars, mountains, river flowing,.... Dont you think they are there for a reason? Whos created those?

On person opinion, i cannot think of not believing in god. You kinda feel empty and hopeless...

[Justufy]

wow! Believing in science and theories! Thats like believing in fairy tales.

this quote made my day.

[جوري]

this quote made my day.

You should get out more!

[theblackcloud]

Muslims already do enough to combat terrorism. The anti-Islamic bigots just hurl hateful insults at the Muslims, while the Muslims actually ARE fighting terrorism and militantism where they can!

In fact, Muslims have done such a good job of cleaning up extremists from their communities, that the extremist elements have ran away to the Internet now. Even on the Internet, the violent extremist community is small. It consists of Youtube, and a couple dozen message boards and propaganda sites. That's it. Just wait until the Internet actually starts to develop laws of control around it, then that factor will be terminated as well.

[Ishaaq]

Muslims already do enough to combat terrorism. The anti-Islamic bigots just hurl hateful insults at the Muslims, while the Muslims actually ARE fighting terrorism and militantism where they can!

In fact, Muslims have done such a good job of cleaning up extremists from their communities, that the extremist elements have ran away to the Internet now. Even on the Internet, the violent extremist community is small. It consists of Youtube, and a couple dozen message boards and propaganda sites. That's it. Just wait until the Internet actually starts to develop laws of control around it, then that factor will be terminated as well.

You are right. What you refer to as extremists is actually the resurrection of an ancient sect known as the khawaarij. This ancient sect emerged during the time of the fourth caliph (may Allaah be pleased with him), they rebelled against the fourth caliph, believing he had compromised the Shariah law. Thus they rebelled and revolted against the Islaamic ruler, and assassinated him. They believed that a Muslim who committed a major sin was guilty of apostasy. Now the extremists of today have the same agenda as the ancient Khawaarij, they want to overthrow the Muslim rulers and establish an Islaamic super-state, because they believe the Muslim rulers to be apostates. They engage in acts of terrorism against other Muslims, considering all Muslims who do not follow their ideology to be legitimate targets. The Prophet Muhammad :saws: said regarding them that they are the Kilaab un Naar (The dogs of hell).

[theblackcloud]

The threat of Muslim extremism in America was determined to have been exaggerated in the media[1].

The media often defines reality for your every day citizen. Negative portrayal in forms of media about Islam goes back to the crusades, when Islam was pushing it's way forward to Christian lands. The ruling elite of the church sought to ensure that Islam would not steal their power over the people or gain any sympathizers in Christian lands [2].

[theblackcloud]

One can find plenty of Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Communist (...... leftist.....) and any other type of extremist out there if one knows where to look.

[Justufy]

One can find plenty of Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Communist (...... leftist.....) and any other type of extremist out there if one knows where to look.

This does not negate the fact that the most vocal and attention seeking type of extremist nowadays in the new-Kingdom is the islamic sort.

[Pygoscelis]

Can we all stop bickering now?

waqas maqsood, some scientific theories may equate to quackery indeed, such as alchemy or pyramidology, but good scientists work to expose the faults and the theories are revised or replaced as new information becomes available. Evolution and the big bang (mentioned above) are both theories that have ALREADY been revised since their initial presentation and will continue to be as more research is done.

This is the key difference between science and religion in regards to knowledge. Science is bottom up, asking the questions and trying to piece together the answers, never completely certain of the truth. Religion is top down, certain of the truth and declaring the answers, and usually discouraging questioners. Science works by questioning and research. Religion works by declaration and faith.

You asked what is my ideology if I lack a belief in God. First, understand that atheism itself is NOT an ideology. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't tell you anything about me besides that I lack a belief in gods. As a human being with opinions I do of course HAVE an ideology but it has no more to do with my atheism as it has to do with my gender, my race, or my height. I'd go into my personal ideology but this really isn't the thread nor the forum for it. My personal ideology would only get people here more wound up than they already are. Suffice it to say I'm likely the most liberal person on this board.

You also presumed that since I lack belief in gods I must live an empty hopeless life devoid of meaning. This simply isn't true. My life has plenty of meaning and is far from hopeless or empty.

Hope I cleared that up :) Now can we all try to correspond without the fancy attempts to insult one another? I'm interested in your thoughts and opinions. I'm not interested in all this mud slinging.

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
You guys do know this topic is about combatting terrorism, right?

Just throwing that out there...