Why pork is forbidden in Islam?

[peaceandlove]

Why pork is forbidden by Islam? A comprehesive answer by Dr Zakir Naik.

http://islam-faq.blogspot.com/2010/0...f-pork-is.html

[Predator]

A video is worth a 1000 words, so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy6Bn...eature=related

[Grace Seeker]

Why pork is forbidden by Islam? A comprehesive answer by Dr Zakir Naik.

http://islam-faq.blogspot.com/2010/0...f-pork-is.html

I appreciate Dr. Zakir Naik's efforts at being comprehensive. But, I think he went well beyond why it is forbidden in Islam. Isn't it forbidden simply on the first point alone:

1. Pork is prohibited in Qur’an

The Qur’an prohibits the consumption of pork in no less than 4 different places. It is prohibited in 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115.

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine,and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah.”
[Al-Qur’an 5:3]

As he says, that the above is included in the Holy Qur’an should be sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden.


That would mean the remaining poiints of his blog, which don't have anything really to do with Islam, might be material by which one might try to convince a non-Muslim to not eat pork, but for the Muslim the reason to not do so is that Allah said not to.

2. Pork prohibited in the Bible

Indeed, in the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy, where it is part of God's covenant with the Jewish people. Thus it is relevant to Jews and to Jews alone.

3. Consumption of pork causes several diseases

A good point. Pork is one of several meats that one has to be sure is thoroughly cooked before eating.

4. Pork has fat building material

Another good point. Pork is one of sseveral meats of which this is true.

5. Pig is one of the filthiest animals on earth

I would dispute this. My experience working on farms is that a pastured pig is no dirtier than a cow. Because of the sensitivity of their skin, pigs like many other animals will wallow in the mud to protect themselves from the sun. In terms of what a pig eats, well, there are many, many animals that do the same, but I agree it is gross.

6. Pig is the most shameless animal

I suppose that shame, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. The behavior of pigs is not something that I believe humans should emulate. But neither should we copy that of any other species, for that is not how God made us to be. Dogs, cats, mice, rabbits, cattle, horses, goats, sheep, deer, bears, most fish and most birds will all mate with any opposite gendered adult of their species with whom they can. It matters not that it is one's parent or offspring even. They seem to forget such things. But for shameless behavior, I nominate the bonobo. This species does things that I hate to print here, so I just refer you to this link.

Included in this point is the argument that the lascivious behavior of some Americans is related to the consumption of pork. This ignores the reality that pork is one of the most cultivated meats for worldwide consumption. It is just an attempt by the author to call Americans pigs.

[Predator]

For Muslims the notion of Faith is primarily associated with the concept of Knowledge. It is interesting to note, that in Arabic, the word “faith” (“iman”) is a derivative of the root with the meaning of “to safeguard”) Consequently, in order to achieve “peace and safety in God”, a believer should rigorously follow the Divine laws and commandments.
Both human experience and scientific data have confirmed the commandments concerning healthcare issues, found in the Holy Scriptures. The prohibition of pork consumption is an example of such a commandment.

“Oh ye people! Eat of what is on earth, lawful and good. If there is any restriction on you from Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala, that is – do not eat the dead animals (Maytatah), avoid the blood and the flesh of swine (pork), and do not eat any such thing on which someone´s else name has been pronounced except the name of Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala. Yet, if someone is in the situation of helplessness and he/she eats any of these things without that he/she has the intention to break the Law or exceeds the limits of necessity, then there is no sin on him/her, Allah, subhaana wa ta´aala, is Oft-Forgiving and Loving” (The Holy Quran, II: 172, 173).

A similar commandment may be found in the Bible:

“You shall not eat any abominable things < …> And the pig, because it has a cloven hoof but does not chew the cud, you shall regard as unclean. You shall not eat their flesh or even touch their dead carcasses” (Deuteronomy, XIV: 8.).

The medical aspects of the prohibition

To abstain from consuming pork means to care about one’s health. The omnivorous pig, being by far the most slovenly and greedy domestic animal, devours virtually anything, including human excrement and is a breeding ground for various malignant microbes and parasites. Consumption of pork may result in many serious diseases. We are safe to assume that one of the main reasons behind the prohibition of pork consumption was the spread of trichinosis, - a disease caused by trichinella spiralis, a parasitic roundworm.

•Trichinosis is caused by eating infected raw or insufficiently cooked pork, in which the immature parasite is encysted. When such a piece of meat is eaten, the encysted embryos are set free in the intestines, and develop into full-grown trichinae. From each pair of these, thousands of new embryos may arise in the course of several weeks. As soon as this new generation of embryos is produced, they make their way into the wall of the bowel, and thence wander through the circulation system, finally depositing themselves between the fibers of the voluntary muscles, where they become encysted. The first symptoms develop in the course of two weeks after the infection. The disease is characterized by fever and severe pain in the limbs and muscles, oedema of the soft tissues, and eosinophilia in the blood. The infection may result in severe damage to the nervous system (in the form of encephalitis), cardiac muscle (miocarditis), as well as other complications.
Despite the therapeutic advances, contemporary medicine does not provide an effective cure for trichinosis. The only efficient protection, therefore, is based on prevention, or giving up eating pork. Although the meat is subject to thorough inspection in slaughter-houses, as well as by the Sanitary Inspection, this procedure does not give a one hundred percent guarantee, as was clearly shown by the recent outbreak in Moscow.

The list of the microbes and parasites found in pork is vast. It should be emphasized that many of these diseases as yet remain incurable.

•Taenia Solium (tapeworm). The taeniasis is caused by the brain’s infestation by the larvae form of the pork tapeworm, the gastrointestinal parasite, and may constitute up to 1.3 percent of the intracranial volume. The parasite’s onchosphere travels through the mucous membranes of the blood vessels into the portal circulatory system, and is thence transported throughout the body, infecting various internal organs, as well as the brain. The course of the disease is remittent and, symptomatically, is characterized by the presence of several niduses. The infestation may often be manifested in the development of the epileptic syndrome, meningism and the increase of the intracranial pressure.
•Roundworms. Ascariasis may result in appendicitis, and some types of jaundice. The infestation is known to cause dyspepsia.
•Schitosoma Japonica. This disease is manifested in hemorrhages and anemia. In the case of the ova infesting the brain or bone marrow, the disease may bring about paralysis or death.
•Paragonimus Westermani. Infestation may result in haemoptysis, or the coughing up of blood, due to the worm setting in the lungs.
•Paciolepsis Buski. This parasite causes dyspepsia, severe diarrhea and general edema.
•Clonorchis Sinensis. Infestation by this parasite may be manifested in some types of jaundice.
•Metastrongylus Apri may cause bronchitis or the inflammation of the lungs’ tissue.
•Gigantorinchus Gigas causes anemia and dyspepsia.
•Balantidium Coli is known to cause acute dysentery, resulting in the severe emaciation.
•Bacterial diseases
•Tuberculosis.
•Fusiformis Necrophulus, which causes a serious disease of the lower limbs.
•Salmonella Cholera Suis (cholera)
•Brucellosis, - the disease results in the irreversible loss of the victim’s capabilities.
•Erysipelas, or St. Anthony’s fire.
•Viral infections
•Small pox.
•Japanese encephalitis (B-type).
•Influenza.
•Protozoan infections
•Toxoplasma Goundii. This microorganism causes a very serious disease of toxoplasmosis. In the congenital form the unborn child is infected by the mother. Toxoplasmosis often results in the sudden death within several days or weeks after birth. In the case of survival, the infection may result in mental retardation, loss of sight or deafness. The acquired form in adults may manifest itself in chronic fever, marked by liver and spleen malfunction, pneumonia, and hydrocephalus. This disease may also affect sight and hearing.
Those who consume pork are more prone to obesity due to the high percentage of fat in pork. In this group, blood cholesterol level is frequently higher than normal; pork-eaters are more susceptible to arteriosclerosis, which may result in cardiovascular diseases, malfunction of the brain blood-circulation, vascular pathology of the lower limbs, etc.

Pork is difficult to digest, which may be the cause of many chronic diseases of the digestive system. Ulcerous skin infections are more frequently found within the pork-consuming group. Of great interest is the research into the hydrolysis of pork fat, its deposition in the human body, and the extent of its utilization. There is a theory that animal fat, acquired by the consumption of the herbivorous animals’ meat, undergoes a process of hydrolysis and is thence synthesized anew and deposited in the body as human fat. Pork fat, however, is not subject to hydrolysis and is consequently deposited in the human fat tissue as pork fat. Since the proper utilization of this fat deposit is problematic, in order to produce energy, the body burns up the stock of glucose, which is essential for brain activity. This process brings about a chronic feeling of hunger, which, in turn, results in a vicious circle: although having a substantial fat build-up, the person is constantly consuming additional food without feeling satisfied.

The biblical aspect of the commandment

In spite of the fact that pork consumption was clearly outlawed by the Bible, there are those who insist that the New Testament annuls the prohibition. This assumption still has to find any substantial evidence. No scholar is able to prove that Jesus (let peace be upon him!) repealed this prohibition. On the contrary, he has expressly reinforced it by saying “Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete” (St. Matthew; V: 17). The Book of Acts (X: 10-16) is frequently quoted to support the view that the New Testament allegedly abolishes the taboo on pork. Without evaluating the general context of the excerpt, one could really misunderstand the meaning of the passage. However, the text never states for a fact that St. Peter actually consumed the meat of “unclean” animals or recommended his disciples to do so. In the New Testament, Jesus (let peace be upon him!) likens those who fail to appreciate the Divine Revelation to dogs and pigs: “Do not give dogs what is holy; do not cast your pearls to the swines, they will only trample on them, and turn and tear you to pieces” (St. Matthew; VII: 6).

It is obvious, therefore, that abstinence from consuming pork is one of the conditions, essential for both physical and spiritual personal perfection. Although pork does not contain harmful substances strong enough to kill a person immediately, its potentially lethal poisons build up in the body over time. The Prophet (let peace be upon him!) said: “There are two blessings, which are neglected by many: one’s own health and the spare time, predestined for the deeds that would please the Lord Almighty. Allah is more pleased to see the believer in good health than in weakness and illness”.

Every person should care about his or her health, bearing in mind that it was granted to us by the Almighty

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[Predator]

Why Islam Forbids Pork?
By: Rashid Shamsi
(The Muslim World League Journal, Rajab 1420 - October 1999)


Food and drink have direct effect on our health. That is why Islam has prescribed regulations about our food and drink. It lays great emphasis on our physical as well as moral health, because both of these are equally important for a healthy society. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practise hygiene and to attain purity of soul.

Islam, for the cultivation of inner faculties, insists upon the cleanliness of body and the purification of soul through Salaat (prayers) Zikr (remembrance of Allah) and other devotional duties. Islam teaches us how to attain the virtues and how to give up bad habits because both good and bad grow in the man according to his upbringing, education and environment.

A human being has natural desires: food, sleep and sex being the three primary ones. He has also other natural emotions: sorrow, happiness, love, fear, disgust and avarice etc. Islam doesn't recommend the complete abrogation of these impulses but offers a method of controlling them through religious education and discipline.

The prohibition of eating pork in Islam is relevant in this context. There is a saying in English that "a man becomes what he eats." According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.


Body and Soul

The life of a man is a compound of body and soul. Anything, which is harmful for the body, hurts the soul as well. Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty. Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality with the result that virginity, chastity and bashfulness are becoming a thing of the past in Europe today. The number of unwed mothers is on the increase despite of the use of pills and other contraceptives.

According to a report, 60 to 70% of girls in Sweden become mothers before marriage. The formula of "skin to skin is no sin" is taking its toll but there is hardly any feeling of shame or remorse over the end-result. Since the European nations have become addicted to wine and pork, sexual freedom with all its attendant evils has got ingrained in their culture. Consequently, homosexuality has been legalized by the British Parliament.

The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuff in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in the diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

Another wrong notion about swine-flesh is that its consumption lengthens life-span, although this is a pure myth and absurdity. On the contrary, people, who abstain from pork and liquor, have a longer span of life. The Muslims in Central Asia bear a testimony to this truth.

However, in the consumption of flesh Muslims are required to be selective and to distinguish between Halaal (Lawful) and Haraam (Unlawful). This step leads automatically to the deeper understanding of the need for the cultivation of a pure human nature. As blood is virtually our life-stream and whatever we consume ultimately affects the blood system, it is, therefore, necessary to exercise choice in the selection of our food and drinks as part of the requirements of the Shariah.

There are certain food and drinks specified by Allah, and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as forbidden. The prohibition of these food and drinks is not by any means an arbitrary action or an unwarranted decree of Allah. It is the first and foremost a divine intervention in the best interest of man and for his own benefit.

The reasons behind the Divine intervention are numerous. They are of a nature intellectual and spiritual, moral and mental, physical and economic. And the sole purpose is to show man how to develop himself according to an upright course of life in order to be a healthy unit in the structure of the family, then of society and eventually of humanity at large.

Reliable medical doctors and social scientists are able to realize how those food and drinks forbidden by Islam are harmful and destructive to the human spirit and morality as well as to the physique and moral fibre of man and to verify the benefits of Islamic legislations on the subjects.

The prohibition is based on the aim of the purification of one's nature, because food, when consumed, doesn't merely enter the stomach and intestines and become excreta. It is absorbed and metabolized into the system and circulated to all parts of the human body, including the brain, and this in no small way affects man's nature.

Take a look at the nature of the pig for example. The pig is naturally lazy and indulgent in sex, it is dirty, greedy and gluttonous. It dislikes sunlight and lacks the spirit and will to "fight." It eats almost anything, be it human excreta or anything foul and unwholesome. Amongst all animal flesh, pork is the favoured cradle of harmful germs. Pork also serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind. It is for this reason that its flesh is not suitable for consumption.

Some people have argued that the "modern pig" reared in farms is given only clean foods, therefore, its flesh should be consumable. The answer is that you may feed the pig on clean, wholesome food, but you can't change its nature. It is still a pig and will always stay so. A pig is not a plant and you cannot change it by bud-grafting.


Medical Reports

Dr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine.

He writes:

The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many diseases carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.

Besides, lard contains 2800 units of vitamin D per 100 grams and no vitamin A at all. Lately vitamin D has been held responsible for atheroma, by causing increased absorption of calcium in the blood vessels. In human beings, serum cholesterol is not dependent on the intake of cholesterol in the diet, but depends upon the proportion of animal fats in the diet, which elevates the beta-lipo protein level in the blood. Animal fats contain saturated fatty acids and these saturated fatty acids have been found to be as one of the causes of atheroma in man. Medium fat bacon contains 25% proteins and 55% fat.

According to medical research, the fat content in pork is more than any other meat (beef, mutton etc.) and it takes longer to digest. Dr. M Jaffer in an article in the Islamic Review (London) of January 1997 issue has listed 16 kinds of harmful germs, which have been discovered in pork in modern researches and the diseases, which could be caused by them. The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by tri-chinelia spirates and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations too.

Dr. Glen Shepherd wrote the following on the dangers of eating pork in Washington Post (31 May 1952).

"One in six people in USA and Canada have germs in their muscles - trichinosis 8 from eating pork infected with trichina worms. Many people who are infected shows no symptoms. Most of those, who do have, recover slowly. Some die; some are reduced to permanent invalids. All were careless pork caters".

He continued "No one is immune from the disease and there is no cure. Neither antibiotics nor drugs or vaccines affect these tiny deadly worms. Preventing infection is the real answer."

After reading the statement of Dr. Shepherd, one can realize that there is no real guarantee of safety when eating pork that one would not be affected by trichina worm. That is why modern doctors advise three prohibitions during illness: no liquor, no pork and no smoking.

Muslims follow the divine law which is much higher than the medical advice. The Glorious Qur'an says, "So eat of the lawful and good food which Allah has provided for you, and thank the bounty of your Lord if it is Him you serve. He has forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swine-flesh and that which has been immolated in the name of any other than Allah; but he who is driven thereto, neither craving nor transgressing, Lo! then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (16:114-115)

The above is the order from the Creator of the universe and the Supreme Law-Giver. All Muslims are under the obligation to obey it. This is a plain and straightforward answer to those, who usually ask why Muslims abstain from eating pork. Nevertheless, there is no sin, if a Muslims is forced by famine or starvation to eat pork in order to save his life

[Predator]

BIBLICAL ASPECT OF THE PROHIBITION

Old Testament

The Jews and the different christian sects and denominations
believe in the Old Testament. Adherents of other religions
alleged that the prohibition was already superseded by the New
Testament.This cogent argumentation is inconclusive. No one can
specifically point out that Jesus Christ (PBUH) lifted the
prohibition. On the contrary, he upheld it he declared:


" Think not that I have come to abolish the law
and the prophets: I have come not to abolish
them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17 RSV)

Jesus Christ (PBUH) was obviously referring to the existing
Law of his time , the Mosaic Law !- in which the Law prohibiting
pig as article of food is mentioned. ( Leviticus 11:7-11)

" As for any beast that is a splitter of the hoof
but is not a former of the cleft and not a chewer
of the cud, they are unclean for you. Everyone
touching them will be unclean. "
Leviticus 11:26


In addition, the book of Prophet Isaiah said:

" Who sit in tombs, and spend the night in secret
places who eats swine's flesh and broth of
abominable things is in their vessels;... These
are a smoke in my nostrils,a fire that burns
all the day. " ( Isaiah 65:4,5b RSV)


The New Testament
Despite the Biblical injunction prohibiting pork as food,
still people of other religious persuations insist on finding
ways and reasons to justify their consumption of prohibited
animals arguing that said Biblical prohibition was already
superseded in the New Testament when in certainly, no one can
specifically point out that Jesus Christ (PBUH) indeed lifted the
prohibition. On the contrary, Jesus (PBUH) declared:

" Think not that I have come to abolish the law
and the prophets. I have come not to abolish but
to fulfill them. " ( Matthew 5:17 )

The fact is, we will find in Mark 5:1-20 that Jesus (PBUH)
even permitted the foul spirits (evil spirits) possessing a man
to enter into the herb of swine. Since the flesh of pig is
unlawful for the Jews, to eat and since it is considered
unclean, (Leviticus 11:7-8) consequently, the Jews are not to keep
or raise them. This Biblical account states that Jesus (PBUH)
punished the owners of the swine;destroyed their unlawful
livelihood and at the same time showed that pig is the habitat of
unclean spirits.
The only provision in the New Testament alluded to their
argument is in Act 10:10-16. Without reading the whole
context, one would be inclined to interpret it to mean that God
abrogated His previous command found on Deuteronomy 14:3-8. An
alleged apparition of Peter on Acts 10:11-16 is alleged to
supersede Deuteronomy 14:3-8, however, nowhere in the Bible is it
mentioned that Peter actually slaughtered and ate the unclean
animals he saw in his apparition. The correct interpretation of
this apparition was shown to him in Acts 10:25-28. Acts 10:11-16
therefore, carries an allegorical connotation,r eferring
explicitly to the Gentile nations or non-Jewish nations. Peter
was told not to call the Gentiles common and unclean because
God's mercy, blessing and forgiveness also encompasses the Non
Jews and life eternal also awaits the penitent.



According to the Gospel of Mark, Jesus supposedly said the following:



Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "[a] After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' (Mark 7:14-20)



So according to Jesus, foods that come into you don't make you unclean, as they only go into your stomach, but not to your heart. It's what comes out of you that makes you unclean, such as things you say, or things you do. The fact that Jesus mentions the heart shows he is talking about something spiritual here, something to do with the faith.



Now indeed, some might read this teaching and think that yes this is a teaching that makes perfect sense, yet the reality is that this teaching is actually wrong. The reason it's wrong is because there are foods that can come into you and make you unclean, not physically unclean, as that wasn't what Jesus was talking about, but SPIRITUALLY UNCLEAN.



Did Jesus forget about the foods that were sacrificed to idols? What if a man ate food that was sacrificed to idols because it was part of his faith, part of his pagan belief, the act of eating that food would make him completely spiritually unclean because he has taken part in a pagan ritual that he believes in, and this act of taking the food in is connected to his heart, because it's part of his spiritual faith!





In the Bible, Jesus(PBUH) likened to a dog and pig those
people whom after receiving divine teaching failed to profit from
them and abuses them for self-serving purposes:

" Do not give holy to dogs- they will only turn and
attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of
pigs-they will only trample them underfoot. "
( Matthew 7:6 NEB)

[Grace Seeker]

BIBLICAL ASPECT OF THE PROHIBITION

Old Testament

The Jews and the different christian sects and denominations
believe in the Old Testament. Adherents of other religions
alleged that the prohibition was already superseded by the New
Testament.This cogent argumentation is inconclusive. No one can
specifically point out that Jesus Christ (PBUH) lifted the
prohibition.

The majority of this particular post is really irrelevant. The above statement is countered by part of the post itself:

According to the Gospel of Mark, Jesus supposedly said the following:



Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "[a] After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' (Mark 7:14-20)



So according to Jesus, foods that come into you don't make you unclean, as they only go into your stomach, but not to your heart. It's what comes out of you that makes you unclean, such as things you say, or things you do. The fact that Jesus mentions the heart shows he is talking about something spiritual here, something to do with the faith.



Now indeed, some might read this teaching and think that yes this is a teaching that makes perfect sense, yet the reality is that this teaching is actually wrong. The reason it's wrong is because there are foods that can come into you and make you unclean, not physically unclean, as that wasn't what Jesus was talking about, but SPIRITUALLY UNCLEAN.



Did Jesus forget about the foods that were sacrificed to idols? What if a man ate food that was sacrificed to idols because it was part of his faith, part of his pagan belief, the act of eating that food would make him completely spiritually unclean because he has taken part in a pagan ritual that he believes in, and this act of taking the food in is connected to his heart, because it's part of his spiritual faith!

Mark's commentary (that part which is put in parenthesis) on Jesus' statement shows us that Jesus' statement, even if to be understood as primarily talking about spiritual things, is also to be understood as applying to actual food itself. The writer of the post might disagree with Mark. But this is what Mark understands can be inferred from Jesus' statement.

Jesus was hardly afraid of being ceremonially unclean, he was frequently. And one has to understand that the Levitical laws are indeed ceremonial laws. They serve to distinguish Jews from non-Jews. They do not make one more or less pure before God. Ceremonial laws have no effect on that, only following God's ethical commands are pertinent to that issue. And the eating of pork not only never had that effect for the Jews, it doesn't even to this day for Muslims.

What happens if a Muslim eats pork without being aware of having done so? The answer is,

“And there is no sin on you concerning that in which you made a mistake, except in regard to what your hearts deliberately intend. And Allaah is Ever Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”

(al-Ahzaab 33:5)

So, it isn't the physical act of eating pork that is sinful at all, it is the intent to obey or not obey Allah that is important. Of course, that would mean that a Muslim would never intentionally abuse Allah's compassion and eat pork just because Allah is oft-forgiving. But, for those who understand that they are not under the covenant that God made with Israel, there is no compulsion to avoid pork from either a physical nor even a spiritual point of view, only from a ceremonial one that does not apply to those not part of that particular covenant. Any other interpretation is to bring an jurisprudence of some other non-Christian religion to the New Testament and attempt to apply it when it does not apply.

The other passages that are referenced, have all been dealt with in other threads. The interpretations provided here are not held to be properly understanding either the context nor the intent of the what is being said. As such the conclusions they reach are not actually supported by the verses they derive them from.

But I do agree with the author of the post with regard to one verse:

" Do not give holy to dogs- they will only turn and
attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of
pigs-they will only trample them underfoot. "
( Matthew 7:6 NEB)

Those who reject the freedom that God gives us in Jesus Christ and returned to following a law have done exactly this.

None of this has to do with why pork is forbidden in Islam, but it does speak to the nature of certain individuals who try to compell the merits of practicing their own religion on others who differ from them.

[Justufy]

I think the answer is way more subtle than that, if we view it from a sociological viewpoint. For instance, in Hinduism, cows are sacred animals because back then they perhaps had a very important function in the lives of people, for agriculture, food and whatnot. I think a similar explanation can be found in the case of Islam, or maybe it is simply one of the elements that were burrowed from Judaism.

[جوري]

I think the answer is way more subtle than that, if we view it from a sociological viewpoint. For instance, in Hinduism, cows are sacred animals because back then they perhaps had a very important function in the lives of people, for agriculture, food and whatnot. I think a similar explanation can be found in the case of Islam, or maybe it is simply one of the elements that were burrowed from Judaism.

They were 'burrowed' from Judaism?

the answer as to why it is forbidden is because God forbade it! and it doesn't matter if you clone a super clean super delicious pig.. it will still be forbidden because God forbade it along with a few other things. Islam doesn't borrow from Judaism.. perhaps the more prudent thought here is that the monotheistic God doesn't change his mind, simply because the folks in Greece were pig raising, pig loving bunch and Saul really wanted to cater to their pagan pig loving mentality!

all the best

[waqas maqsood]

they were 'burrowed' from judaism?


The answer as to why it is forbidden is because god forbade it! And it doesn't matter if you clone a super clean super delicious pig.. It will still be forbidden because god forbade it along with a few other things. Islam doesn't borrow from judaism.. Perhaps the more prudent thought here is that the monotheistic god doesn't change his mind, simply because the folks in greece were pig raising, pig loving bunch and saul really wanted to cater to their pagan pig loving mentality!

lol... Can you imagine a super clean, super delicious pig... Still gross

still won't eat it...

Bottom line is... It is forbidden...

[Justufy]

the answer as to why it is forbidden is because God forbade it

A rather simplistic explanation, I would ask for critically robust evidence that this entity actually forbade anything.

Islam doesn't borrow from Judaism..

I think this is best kept for another subject, but yes, islam burrowed or dowright appropriated many elements from judaism.

perhaps the more prudent thought here is that the monotheistic God doesn't change his mind, simply because the folks in Greece were pig raising, pig loving bunch and Saul really wanted to cater to their pagan pig loving mentality!

Thank you for pointing out the obvious: that religious practises are linked with a sociological context, this is no different in Islam.

[جوري]

A rather simplistic explanation, I would ask for critically robust evidence that this entity actually forbade anything.

Simple explanations are the most accurate and the best when addressing simpletons!

I think this is best kept for another subject, but yes, islam burrowed or dowright appropriated many elements from judaism.

Prove it historically!

Thank you for pointing out the obvious: that religious practises are linked with a sociological context, this is no different in Islam.

I have no idea what this means.. I'd suggest you work on vocabulary and significance seeing as I don't like to waste my time on quasi intellects!

all the best

[Justufy]

Simple explanations are the most accurate and the best when addressing simpletons!

Prove it historically!

I have no idea what this means.. I'd suggest you work on vocabulary and significance seeing as I don't like to waste my time on quasi intellects!

all the best

I have no idea what this means.. I'd suggest you work on vocabulary and significance seeing as I don't like to waste my time on quasi intellects!

all the best

It simply means that the context at the time influences religious practises, had the context been otherwise practises would of been different and perhaps '' God would of forbade'' eating humbug's or snails. Also if your highness may forgive me for my vocabulary but English isn’t my mother tongue.

all the best

Oh! the irony!

[Italianguy]

It simply means that the context at the time influences religious practises, had the context been otherwise practises would of been different and perhaps '' God would of forbade'' eating humbug's or snails. Also if your highness may forgive me for my vocabulary but English isn’t my mother tongue.
Oh! the irony!

Dude aren't you Muslim? Why are you arguing this?

[Italianguy]

It simply means that the context at the time influences religious practises, had the context been otherwise practises would of been different and perhaps '' God would of forbade'' eating humbug's or snails. Also if your highness may forgive me for my vocabulary but English isn’t my mother tongue.
Oh! the irony!

Shoot...I am sorry. I thought you were Muslim. Your avatar is the same as another brothers on this forum.

[جوري]

It simply means that the context at the time influences religious practises, had the context been otherwise practises would of been different and perhaps '' God would of forbade'' eating humbug's or snails. Also if your highness may forgive me for my vocabulary but English isn’t my mother tongue.

I didn't ask you what it meant, I asked you to validate your claims historically!
English isn't my mother tongue either, I do make an effort to elucidate my point if I am in it for a point to be made!

Oh! the irony!

?

all the best!

[Justufy]

Shoot...I am sorry. I thought you were Muslim. Your avatar is the same as another brothers on this forum.

I like the avatar, and besides I use to be.

[Supreme]

I understand why Muslims do not eat pork. It is because the Quran forbids it. All this nonsense about it being unhealthy is really just convenient and secondary to the real reason Muslims don't eat it.

However, as a Christian, I have no obligation to relinquish a food I love.

[Grace Seeker]

I've been wondering why it seemed so important to some Muslims not only to state what their particular views were with regard to the prohibition on eating pork, but why some were so strong in asserting that it applied to Christians as well -- when, from the beginning, this was a question addressed and resolved by the church and the subject is fully covered in the text of scripture itself (cf. Acts 10-11, Acts 15, 1 Corinthians 8, Galatians 2 & 5, Galatians 6:12-18, ) and Christians (Joel Osteen withstanding) have simply never understood there to be any dietary restrictions associated with being part of the church. It seemed like others were just trying to force their own religious ethic on people of a different religion from themselves. And as Islam claims there is no compulsion in religion, I couldn't understand why this other attitude was so. And then I stumbled on this verse:

The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them. (Quran 5:5)

Surely, I had seen it before, but I saw something new in it this time. Unless one can show that Christians are indeed bound by the same dietary laws as are Muslims, then there would be a conflict between this verse and 5:3 which preceeded it: "Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine...."

If, as I assert, that it is true and was certainly true at the time that the Qur'an was received, that Christians are permitted to eat pork, then 5:3 (pork is forbidden) and 5:5 (the food of Christians is lawful to you) would be diametrically opposed to each other.

Of course, if one accepts that the Qur'an is divine revelation, then such internal inconsistancy could never be. So, it must be that Christians (though they live oblivious to it) are also forbidden from eating pork. Thus, it is only an act of love that some here seek to correct our misguided view as to what our Christian faith actually teaches. For, though it may not be so clear from the (corrupted) Christian scriptures, fortunately the truth has been revealed to us Christians as well in the Qur'an, which (divinely) corrects our (error-plauged) historical record and (misguided) Christian teaching on the subject.

[جوري]

Unless one can show that Christians are indeed bound by the same dietary laws as are Muslims,.

The dietary restrictions of Christians are the least of their problems from an Islamic point-- something about God copulating with an earth woman and impregnating her with himself and then dying later after forsaking himself, I fear would be the bigger dilemma.

The Christians of the Quran like Ahel al-kahf for instance, aren't the paganist Christians of today, as such you can't really make yourself the subject of certain Quranic verses. And, again, a christian swine diet is the least of Christianity's troubles at this stage..


all the best

[Justufy]

I understand why Muslims do not eat pork. It is because the Quran forbids it. All this nonsense about it being unhealthy is really just convenient and secondary to the real reason Muslims don't eat it.

However, as a Christian, I have no obligation to relinquish a food I love.

I don’t think anything that enters the body can make it impure, rather it is what comes out of the body: Foul words and whatnot that makes it impure, such is my view.

This is at least more plausible, more reasonable and logical than the view that it’s forbidden to eat pork just because God forbade it, Period.

In that case why didn't he forbid people eating Condors and red fire ants?

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

And pretending it’s bad for your health and so on is what we call an attempt at rationalizing (If I don’t have the exact term in english forgive me) this practise is a very common defence mechanism in psychology.

[جوري]

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

.

Speak for yourself... two weeks is hardly enough time for starvation and regardless one who is accustomed to fast and prayer would rather meet with God hungry than being pig dinning on pigs after all you are what you eat.. and if there are hypocrites and liars here, it would be you, a real live Tartuffe! One is more likely to die of thirst than dinning on the swine that your dying god didn't eat!

[theblackcloud]

Speak for yourself... two weeks is hardly enough time for starvation and regardless one who is accustomed to fast and prayer would rather meet with God hungry than being pig dinning on pigs after all you are what you eat.. and if there are hypocrites and liars here, it would be you, a real live Tartuffe! One is more likely to die of thirst than dinning on the swine that your dying god didn't eat!

Just ignore him, he is trying to start a fight with you based on religious disagreeance (and possibly hatred as well).

People like that are best left ignored.

[Justufy]

Speak for yourself... two weeks is hardly enough time for starvation and regardless one who is accustomed to fast and prayer would rather meet with God hungry than being pig dinning on pigs after all you are what you eat.. and if there are hypocrites and liars here, it would be you, a real live Tartuffe! One is more likely to die of thirst than dinning on the swine that your dying god didn't eat!

I eat of all foods, this does not make me impure, I know this, just like I know eating lobster or of all the other delicacies that God had the great kindness of laying on this earth will never be impure, the soul who is immaterial can only be corrupted by the immaterial and not by worldly things.

And Jesus (blessed be he above all) himself said so, that nothing who goes into a man can make him impure!

[جوري]

Just ignore him, he is trying to start a fight with you based on religious disagreeance (and possibly hatred as well).

People like that are best left ignored.

Greetings,

you are right.. I have had a perfectly bad day and just running on zero tolerance..

especially when I watch videos like these:

Media Tags are no longer supported

Media Tags are no longer supported

They make me sick!

[Justufy]

Just ignore him, he is trying to start a fight with you based on religious disagreeance (and possibly hatred as well).

People like that are best left ignored.

Dear Blackcloud, this section of the forums is called comparative religion for a reason, I think disclaimers should be issued to members around here who are too hot headed to engage in reasonable and civic discourse, If you have something of substance to the discussion well by all means pray do tell. If not I suggest you visit the other sections of this forum , plenty of which are dedicated to blind dogma, no different oppinions will be found there I give you my word.

[islamirama]

I don’t think anything that enters the body can make it impure, rather it is what comes out of the body: Foul words and whatnot that makes it impure, such is my view.

The life of a man is a compound of body and soul. Anything, which is harmful for the body, hurts the soul as well. Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty. Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality with the result that virginity, chastity and bashfulness are becoming a thing of the past in Europe today. The number of unwed mothers is on the increase despite of the use of pills and other contraceptives.

According to a report, 60 to 70% of girls in Sweden become mothers before marriage. The formula of "skin to skin is no sin" is taking its toll but there is hardly any feeling of shame or remorse over the end-result. Since the European nations have become addicted to wine and pork, sexual freedom with all its attendant evils has got ingrained in their culture. Consequently, homosexuality has been legalized by the British Parliament.

The Holy Qur'an has prohibited the swine-flesh, hence the Muslims would not dare touch it. The Bible has also forbidden swine-flesh, but Christians disregarded this order and started consuming it. The Europeans now proclaim that pork is a very powerful diet, rich in protein. Some of them further argue that since there is a great scarcity of food-stuff in the world and swines are available in abundant quantity, they should be consumed in the diet to overcome the food shortage. If this argument is true, why don't they use dog's meat as dogs too are available in abundance? The Europeans perhaps hate the mere mention of dog's meat in the same way as the Muslims shun pork.

Another wrong notion about swine-flesh is that its consumption lengthens life-span, although this is a pure myth and absurdity. On the contrary, people, who abstain from pork and liquor, have a longer span of life. The Muslims in Central Asia bear a testimony to this truth.

However, in the consumption of flesh Muslims are required to be selective and to distinguish between Halaal (Lawful) and Haraam (Unlawful). This step leads automatically to the deeper understanding of the need for the cultivation of a pure human nature. As blood is virtually our life-stream and whatever we consume ultimately affects the blood system, it is, therefore, necessary to exercise choice in the selection of our food and drinks as part of the requirements of the Shariah.

There are certain food and drinks specified by Allah, and His Messenger Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as forbidden. The prohibition of these food and drinks is not by any means an arbitrary action or an unwarranted decree of Allah. It is the first and foremost a divine intervention in the best interest of man and for his own benefit.

The reasons behind the Divine intervention are numerous. They are of a nature intellectual and spiritual, moral and mental, physical and economic. And the sole purpose is to show man how to develop himself according to an upright course of life in order to be a healthy unit in the structure of the family, then of society and eventually of humanity at large.

Reliable medical doctors and social scientists are able to realize how those food and drinks forbidden by Islam are harmful and destructive to the human spirit and morality as well as to the physique and moral fibre of man and to verify the benefits of Islamic legislations on the subjects.

The prohibition is based on the aim of the purification of one's nature, because food, when consumed, doesn't merely enter the stomach and intestines and become excreta. It is absorbed and metabolized into the system and circulated to all parts of the human body, including the brain, and this in no small way affects man's nature.

Take a look at the nature of the pig for example. The pig is naturally lazy and indulgent in sex, it is dirty, greedy and gluttonous. It dislikes sunlight and lacks the spirit and will to "fight." It eats almost anything, be it human excreta or anything foul and unwholesome. Amongst all animal flesh, pork is the favoured cradle of harmful germs. Pork also serves as a carrier of diseases to mankind. It is for this reason that its flesh is not suitable for consumption.

Some people have argued that the "modern pig" reared in farms is given only clean foods, therefore, its flesh should be consumable. The answer is that you may feed the pig on clean, wholesome food, but you can't change its nature. It is still a pig and will always stay so. A pig is not a plant and you cannot change it by bud-grafting.

Source:
Why Islam Forbids Pork?
By: Rashid Shamsi
(The Muslim World League Journal, Rajab 1420 - October 1999)

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

Dr. E. Kazim. M.D. in his article "Medical aspects of forbidden foods in Islam" (July 1981 issue of Muslim Journal has described diseases carried or caused by the flesh of the swine.

He writes:

The pig is a scavenger. It is an omnivorous animal. It eats everything. There are many diseases carried from swine to man, particularly parasite infestations. Lately extensive research has been focused on senility-old age is characterized by hardening of inner lining of the blood vessels of the heart, brain etc. a process called atheroselerosis. When a clot forms, it results in coronary thrombosis or a heart attack, cerebral thrombosis or stroke.

Different dietary factors are responsible for atheroselerosis. Gross atheroma may be produced in rabbit by feeding it with cholesterol, but when you add lard (derived from hog fat) to the cholesterol, the incidence of atheroma is increased and thus you would produce coronary thrombosis, and myocardial infraction.

Besides, lard contains 2800 units of vitamin D per 100 grams and no vitamin A at all. Lately vitamin D has been held responsible for atheroma, by causing increased absorption of calcium in the blood vessels. In human beings, serum cholesterol is not dependent on the intake of cholesterol in the diet, but depends upon the proportion of animal fats in the diet, which elevates the beta-lipo protein level in the blood. Animal fats contain saturated fatty acids and these saturated fatty acids have been found to be as one of the causes of atheroma in man. Medium fat bacon contains 25% proteins and 55% fat.

According to medical research, the fat content in pork is more than any other meat (beef, mutton etc.) and it takes longer to digest. Dr. M Jaffer in an article in the Islamic Review (London) of January 1997 issue has listed 16 kinds of harmful germs, which have been discovered in pork in modern researches and the diseases, which could be caused by them. The number of patients suffering from tapeworm disease is the highest in the world among pork eating nations. Other diseases attributed to pigs are caused by tri-chinelia spirates and intestinal worms occupy first place among such nations too.

Dr. Glen Shepherd wrote the following on the dangers of eating pork in Washington Post (31 May 1952).

"One in six people in USA and Canada have germs in their muscles - trichinosis 8 from eating pork infected with trichina worms. Many people who are infected shows no symptoms. Most of those, who do have, recover slowly. Some die; some are reduced to permanent invalids. All were careless pork caters".

He continued "No one is immune from the disease and there is no cure. Neither antibiotics nor drugs or vaccines affect these tiny deadly worms. Preventing infection is the real answer."

After reading the statement of Dr. Shepherd, one can realize that there is no real guarantee of safety when eating pork that one would not be affected by trichina worm. That is why modern doctors advise three prohibitions during illness: no liquor, no pork and no smoking.

Muslims follow the divine law which is much higher than the medical advice. The Glorious Qur'an says, "So eat of the lawful and good food which Allah has provided for you, and thank the bounty of your Lord if it is Him you serve. He has forbidden for you only carrion and blood and swine-flesh and that which has been immolated in the name of any other than Allah; but he who is driven thereto, neither craving nor transgressing, Lo! then Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." (16:114-115)

The above is the order from the Creator of the universe and the Supreme Law-Giver. All Muslims are under the obligation to obey it. This is a plain and straightforward answer to those, who usually ask why Muslims abstain from eating pork. Nevertheless, there is no sin, if a Muslims is forced by famine or starvation to eat pork in order to save his life.

Source:
Why Islam Forbids Pork?
By: Rashid Shamsi
(The Muslim World League Journal, Rajab 1420 - October 1999)

Where science and human brain stops thinking, Islam continues :shade:

And pretending it’s bad for your health and so on is what we call an attempt at rationalizing (If I don’t have the exact term in english forgive me) this practise is a very common defence mechanism in psychology.

Food and drink have direct effect on our health. That is why Islam has prescribed regulations about our food and drink. It lays great emphasis on our physical as well as moral health, because both of these are equally important for a healthy society. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practise hygiene and to attain purity of soul.

Islam, for the cultivation of inner faculties, insists upon the cleanliness of body and the purification of soul through Salaat (prayers) Zikr (remembrance of Allah) and other devotional duties. Islam teaches us how to attain the virtues and how to give up bad habits because both good and bad grow in the man according to his upbringing, education and environment.

A human being has natural desires: food, sleep and sex being the three primary ones. He has also other natural emotions: sorrow, happiness, love, fear, disgust and avarice etc. Islam doesn't recommend the complete abrogation of these impulses but offers a method of controlling them through religious education and discipline.

The prohibition of eating pork in Islam is relevant in this context. There is a saying in English that "a man becomes what he eats." According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.

Source:
Why Islam Forbids Pork?
By: Rashid Shamsi
(The Muslim World League Journal, Rajab 1420 - October 1999)

[Justufy]

Food and drink have direct effect on our health. That is why Islam has prescribed regulations about our food and drink.

The why is Coke, chips, Doritos, candy and many more proscribed by God in islam also? they are not any better for your health than Pork!! Cant you see this is absurd?

Mabey God should step up and ban energy drinks also.

[theblackcloud]

Dear Blackcloud, this section of the forums is called comparative religion for a reason, I think disclaimers should be issued to members around here who are too hot headed to engage in reasonable and civic discourse, If you have something of substance to the discussion well by all means pray do tell. If not I suggest you visit the other sections of this forum , plenty of which are dedicated to blind dogma, no different oppinions will be found there I give you my word.

Insulting people relating to pork and their religion and saying 'salvation is ****ed" is not civil discourse.

I am extremely aware of where I am on this forum, and I will post what I want, where I want on this forum. I just don't want to post provocative things, though.

[Justufy]

According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.

This is absolute nonsense! In this case I repeat, why didnt God bann food items that are even worst on your health? When the US soldiers trow candy at afghan children or Iraqui children jump on them like little buggers, yet these sweets can be even more damaging for your health that a peice of Pork.

[Justufy]

Insulting people relating to pork and their religion and saying 'salvation is ****ed" is not civil discourse.

I am extremely aware of where I am on this forum, and I will post what I want, where I want on this forum. I just don't want to post provocative things, though.

Well im sorry but your blatant misrepresenting of my position was provocative! I never placed any restriction on yout posting rights, again this is comparative religion, opposing views are brought here.

[جوري]

This is absolute nonsense! In this case I repeat, why didnt God bann food items that are even worst on your health? When the US soldiers trow candy at afghan children or Iraqui children jump on them like little buggers, yet these sweets can be even more damaging for your health that a peice of Pork.

candy isn't known to cause neurocysticercosis along with other equally fatal diseases..

however, indeed if something causes harm to one then it is forbidden:

وَأَنفِقُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ وَلاَ تُلْقُواْ بِأَيْدِيكُمْ إِلَى التَّهْلُكَةِ وَأَحْسِنُوَاْ إِنَّ اللّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {195}
[Pickthal 2:195] Spend your wealth for the cause of Allah, and be not cast by your own hands to ruin; and do good. Lo! Allah loveth the beneficent.

I doubt foreign invaders drop anything but phosphorous bombs on Muslim children!

Doritos are made of porcine enzymes so they too are haraam..

I genuinely find you under-educated and a transparent Tartuffe, I wouldn't dignify you with a response were it not for the fact that it tickles me to expose you!

[theblackcloud]

Well im sorry but your blatant misrepresenting of my position was provocative! I never placed any restriction on yout posting rights, again this is comparative religion, opposing views are brought here.

Yes, and like I said, I do not wish to provoke people, but it seems you do.

Of course opposing views are brought to this forum, and that's good so we can learn off each other and grow in knowledge, however insulting someone personally is not constructive dialogue.

[Ramadhan]

I don’t think anything that enters the body can make it impure, rather it is what comes out of the body: Foul words and whatnot that makes it impure, such is my view.

I see. so you are free to eat any food, including human flesh?

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

This statement shows how ignorant you are about Islamic jurisprudence, and yet you are making this statement which makes you seem like an ignorant fool.
I won't even bother to explain how stupid your comment is since you are so laughably certain about it.
I guarantee you every muslim in this forum is laughing everytime they read this precious gem.

It seems logic escapes anyone who worship man-god.

[Woodrow]

GADS!!! Another pork chop thread.

Why do we seem to make understanding of why we don't eat pork. the most important issue of Islam.

There is a very simple explanation why we don't eat pork. Allaah(swt) has forbidden us from doing so.

No further reason is needed. We have no reason to justify what Allaah(swt) has ordered.

To repeat once again.


We do not eat pork, because we obey Allaah(swt).

Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. Do we distrust Allaah(swt) and feel we must explain why Allaah(swt) has ordered such? Do we feel we are as knowledgeable as Allaah(swt) and fully know why He has forbidden it to us? Is it of any importance for us to explain the actions of Allaah(swt)?

[Grace Seeker]

GADS!!! Another pork chop thread.

Why do we seem to make understanding of why we don't eat pork. the most important issue of Islam.

There is a very simple explanation why we don't eat pork. Allaah(swt) has forbidden us from doing so.

No further reason is needed. We have no reason to justify what Allaah(swt) has ordered.

To repeat once again.


We do not eat pork, because we obey Allaah(swt).

Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. Do we distrust Allaah(swt) and feel we must explain why Allaah(swt) has ordered such? Do we feel we are as knowledgeable as Allaah(swt) and fully know why He has forbidden it to us? Is it of any importance for us to explain the actions of Allaah(swt)?

Seems simple enough to me, Woodrow. But, no, even in the OP's reference to Dr. Zakir Naik's, Dr. Naik was unwilling to stop with his own affirmation, "that the above is included in the Holy Qur’an should be sufficient to satisfy a Muslim as to why pork is forbidden," and felt a need to go on to list 6 more "reasons" that really have nothing to do with Islam, but are instead all about trying to convince non-Muslims to quit eating pork as well.

As I asked in my own post above, I wonder why some Muslims are so compelled to pursue this line of substantiation of their own views. Though I doubt anyone would admit to it, but it comes across as if Allah's word alone is not sufficient reason, and somehow science, health, and morality must be brought into the equation as if to vindicate Allah's commands -- which to my way of think would not need vindication if I had truly submitted myself to being Allah's slave.

But then there is also this, which I quote from what I posted earlier:

I've been wondering why it seemed so important to some Muslims not only to state what their particular views were with regard to the prohibition on eating pork, but why some were so strong in asserting that it applied to Christians as well.... And then I stumbled on this verse (Qur'an 5:5): "This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them."

...Unless one can show that Christians are indeed bound by the same dietary laws as are Muslims, then there would be a conflict between this verse and 5:3 which preceeded it: "Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine...."

...Of course, if one accepts that the Qur'an is divine revelation, then such internal inconsistancy could never be. So, it must be that Christians (though they live oblivious to it) are also forbidden from eating pork. Thus, it is only an act of love that some here seek to correct our misguided view as to what our Christian faith actually teaches....

Interesting thing, other than Gossemer Skye saying that she couldn't care less about Christian dietary practices, others continued to respond by defending Allah's command. For example:

The life of a man is a compound of body and soul. Anything, which is harmful for the body, hurts the soul as well. Consumption of swine-flesh reduces the feeling of shame and as such the standard of modesty. Those nations, which consume pork habitually, have a low standard of morality....

The argument continues along this line for a considerable time making many statements that I suppose are meant to substantiate the position that good pork corrupts good character. And while many people are quoted, it still comes down to justifying Allah as having made a wise decision:

...The prohibition of eating pork in Islam is relevant in this context. There is a saying in English that "a man becomes what he eats." According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man.

Such arguments seem to leave a lot to be desired. Beyond the ridiculousness of what you, I believe, correctly call an attempt "to justify what Allaah(swt) has ordered," I question whether even sound logic is used in the process. Some of the arguments have merit with regard to pork not being the best of all meats for one to eat based on its fattiness and inducing of cholesterol, and also the fear of diseases that can be transmitted through the meat. But such can be said about other foods besides pork, and most of these issues are neutralized by proper handling, cooking, and an overall balanced diet. So, what remains is the argument from morals. And this, again to me, seems to be one of grasping at straws.

In short the argument goes: "eat a pig, act like a pig." Now, to compare human and swine behavior is rather insulting, but I guess that most pigs aren't aware of the comparison and thus probably don't get offended. Of course, right now it is just a hypothesis. But no one has done more than just show their own subjective arguments. No actual data has been present to validate the theory. Nevertheless, the argument is made. And that leads me to wonder if one really could make the direct correspondence that some imply wherein increased pork consumption equals similar increase moral failure?

We could test for this just by asking those who believe it to be so to create a list in which they would order those countries that they believe have the lowest moral standards and see if they also happen to be the countries which eat the most pork.

So, I ask, based on the relevant moral standards of the country, who is predicated to eat the most pork: China or Brazil, Spain or Japan, Denmark or Germany, USA or Hong Kong?

[Uthman]

It's important to distinguish between the 'illah (reason) behind behind a ruling and the hikmah (wisdom) behind it. For sure, we can derive many wisdoms behind the prohibition of pork and it's fine to talk about them but I don't think the reason for the prohibition is specified in the texts.

[Predator]

In the first place, we need to recognize that, according to the Christian Gospels, there were pigs in Palestine at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him). In one of the Gospel accounts of Jesus healing a young man possessed with devils, Jesus commands the devils to leave the man and to go, instead, into a head of pigs.

In the story, the pigs then rush off a nearby cliff and are killed. In Saint Luke's story of the Prodigal Son, too, Jesus talks about a young man who goes off with his share of the inheritance and wastes it on wine, women and song, until he is so penniless that he has to take a job looking after pigs.

So clearly there were pigs around. What were they doing in Palestine, when Jews do not eat pork? Who were they for? In fact, both the Romans and the Greeks used to eat pork as a delicacy, so we must assume that the pigs were bred either for export or to feed the Romans who were occupying Palestine at the time.

In one of the first books of the Old Testament the Jews are told very clearly which animals they may eat and which animals they may not eat. We read:

"… and the pig, which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you." (Leviticus 11:7-8)

To this day, Jews do not eat pork.

From what we read in the Gospels, Jesus says nothing at all about eating or not eating pork, so where do his Christian followers get the idea from that it is permissible to eat pork?

As a prophet of Islam, Jesus would not have eaten pork, but it is highly unlikely, according even to the Gospel accounts themselves, that he would have done so as a Jew.

Why the change, then? Why do Christians eat pork, if they believe that their religion grew out of the Jewish one, which forbids it?

Jesus, in fact, is quoted as saying in Saint Matthew's Gospel,

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

In such a case, then, we can only presume that he left untouched the instruction about pork.

The answer, in fact, lies not with Jesus, but with the Church which grew up after him and claimed to speak in his name.

After Jesus died, according to a book called Acts of the Apostles written by St Luke, a dispute arose among his followers about those who converted to Christianity. In the earliest days, the followers of Jesus were known as "followers of the Way." They did not consider themselves as anything other than Jews, but they followed the teachings of the Jewish rabbi, Jesus. It was only later in Antioch that they first came to be called "Christians."

Some people said that if someone wanted to be a follower of Jesus, he clearly had to become a Jew first.

"But some from the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, 'It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic Law.' The apostles and the presbyters met together to see about this matter." (Acts 15:5)

A meeting was held in Jerusalem to discuss this. It was much more important than a debate about circumcision, since its results would determine the future of those who followed Jesus. There were basically two arguments.

The first was put forward by the Apostle James, heavily influenced by Peter. He upheld the traditional view about circumcision and observation of the Jewish Law. In other words, as Jews the followers of Jesus had to follow the Jewish laws.

Paul of Tarsus, on the other hand, said that there was no longer any need for those new to Christianity to observe the Mosaic Law and become Jews, since Christianity was something different to Judaism.

A compromise was reached. Those who were born as Jews but who had become followers of Jesus would continue to observe the laws of the Jews. Those who were converts did not have to. The prevailing idea was expressed by Peter,

"The truth I have come to realize is that God does not have favorites. Rather, in every nation whoever fears him and acts uprightly is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:34).

Laws particular to the Jews would no longer need to apply.

So, you see, it was not Jesus who changed the rule about eating pork. He was quite clear that the Law said you must not do so. As in so many other cases, it was his followers, who became known as the Church, who made this new rule.

If Christians did not have to become Jews, then Christians were no longer bound by the rules of circumcision or of dietary requirements. They could eat as much pork as they wanted.

That particular verse is showing you that the wickedness in ones heart comes out of their mouth and that is what really matters. Eating pork is not a sin that will send you to Hell; the reason we are commanded not to eat pork is because it will make you sick! Pigs are scavengers; they have no sweat glands; they were put here by God to clean the earth.....think about it, do you want to eat something like that./ I mean

Bible did allow Christians to eat pork in the New Testament (NT)?! Matthew 15:11 says it all!

Christians misinterpret the Bible and misquote the verses out of context simply to justify their foolish theories. Let us analyse what Matthew has to offer in defence of eating pork:

“What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him unclean, but what comes out of his mouth, this is what makes him ‘unclean’.”(Matt.15:11).

Based on the above verse, Christians argue that the NT allows them to eat and enjoy pork because what goes into anybodys mouth (preferably pork) does not make him unclean but what comes out of their mouth (filthy words) does.



If you read the scriptures, Matthew 15:1 all the way to Matthew 15:20 you will clearly understand that these verses do not specifically speak about eating pork. Let us analyse Matthew 15:1-20;

Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat." He answered them, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.' But you say, 'If anyone tells his father or his mother, "What you would have gained from me is given to God," he need not honor his father.' So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: "'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'" (Matthew 15:1-9, ESV)
And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person." Then the disciples came and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?" He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." But Peter said to him, "Explain the parable to us." And he said, "Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone." (Matthew 15:10-20, ESV)


Firstly, Nobody in the above verse spoke about pork or eating pork.
Secondly, it is very clear that Jesus was telling a parable (a short moral story) for which Peter wanted further description..


Thirdly, by saying "What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him unclean...." Jesus meant that the teaching of Moses that were spoon fed (into the mouth) to his disciples did not make them unclean rather they were enlightened by the words of God.
Jesus felt bad because the Pharisees & Scribes did not follow the God's commandments and he says "....So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. You hypocrites!..."


Later Jesus calls his people and says unto them, "Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."


These words in its right context clearly means that Knowledge (from God through Moses to his people) had made his people NOT unclean but their hypocritical response to issue (as Jesus had said in the above verse ".....If anyone tells his father or his mother, "What you would have gained from me is given to God," he need not honor his father.'..." ) is of shame and filthy.


This is why Jesus says "....but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person....". He clearly meant Godly knowledge that is preached (by Moses) had made (the mind and soul of) his disciples clean but since they tampered scriptures and altered it to suite their routine they proved themselves unclean.


The above verses from Bible clearly mention that swine is uncean. Dont try to categorise significant unclean or whatever absurdity you are saying. Swine is unclean.
Eating pork was allowed so pagan converted Christians in the early church did not have to give up certain food in order to get more converts to their religion. They also abandoned circumsion in the early church becuase it would not attract more pagans to come to the christian religion. You can read all about it in Acts of the Apostles in New Testament.

Number four, the verses are clear forbidding the consumption of swine meat. It does not say ''only for jews'' or only for gentiles. If you think that bible allows consumption of swine meat for gentiles than bring a prove from the Bible rather than typing your beliefs.

God in bible tells that pig is unclean due to the reasons it mentions in the Deut. 14:8 found on OT which is a part of Bible (which christians are supposed to follow, but which is another topic). Its crystal clear that Bible prohibits the consumption of pork.


''Jews arent allowed because God told them in the Torah that they aren't allowed.

Muslims dont eat pork because its prohibited in Islam

Christians are allowed because they said Jesus fulfilled all the laws and that anything to eat is now ok for them. Funny thing there is that none of the laws in the Jewish Torah were ever given to Gentiles to follow and they were never bound by them in the first place. So how Jesus freed them from something they were never bound by is a mystery indeed. It's actually not a mystery, it's pure bull****!''


-------------------------------------------------

Christians like to say "It no longer applies"
Nothing in the OT that they dont like no longer applies, but miraculously all the nice easy stuff still applies

Hypocritical!

-------------------------------------------------

Peter himself gives the explanation of the vision:

Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean" Acts 10:14

"But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean." (Acts 10:28)

More than three years after Jesus ascended to heaven, Peter had not the slightest thought of eating pork. Pigs are still unclean

So this bogus roman idea , that pigs were purified after Jesus coming , is flushed down the toilet

-------------------------------------------------


Jesus never at pork.

However, the followers of chrisitinaity are the follower of Paul....It was through his way of apeasing the Roman institution that he made these things permissable.

I would say Muslims are better followers of Jesus than todays christians..

Why -
- He prayed like other Muslims (prostrating on the ground)
- He commanded his peace to say "Peace Be upon you" - Muslims do this, christians dont (generally)
- He was circumcised
- he would fast (Muslims Do)
You should first make yourself clear about who you really are before indulging in debates. Now you have invented a new terminology ''Christian Gentiles''. The Torah is for Jews and Jesus was a Messiah. Either you are supposed to follow OT completely or you are not. You cant cherry pick what you like and leave to Jews what you dont like.


We dont need your definition of uncleans , no matter how you try to twist it, It is clear for everyone that pork meat is considered as unclean either hygenically or spiritual and it is prohibited. The question is not the definition of clean but its prohibition in the Bible.

When were ''gentile christians'' were bound by Torah ? hah! Matthew or Mark or paul may confirm that but Jesus confirmed the law of OT so whoever said anything against Jesus teachings has disobeyed him. Now I know that you will be tempted to bring in your Holy Spirit here and try to prove that these other guys i.e. paul etc are indeed holy!

"Are you so dull?" he (Jesus) asked, "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance, and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean'."
Mark 7:18-23

However, not everyone believed that this is what Jesus meant. Because the apostles still believed in the prohibition of certain food.
In the Book of Acts the Apostles wrote a letter to the gentiles to abstain from certain foods.

Acts 15:29

29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

There are also Christians that don't believe that Mark 7 shows that Jesus declared all food clean.
Yes, pork is not considered as clean and hence is unclean. God mandated in the Torah but he didnt say anywhere ''Go Gentile Christians! And eat as much pork as you want!''
Jesus came to keep up the law of Moses, That's it. Dont play here and there.


From where did this verse mean "... that were involved in pagan rituals" ? You simply added it!

Act 15.29 makes clear that Disciples did observe prohibition on unclean good. Since , according to YOU, eating pork is a pagan ritual and God wanted jews to be differentiated from them in order to prepare them for the great coming of Christ, It is clear that God wanted believers not to eat pork as only pagans eat pork. So God manted that His People i.e. Jews stay away from Pork ! So Believers of God dont consume pork while the so called gentile Christians today consume pork happily , so they are following the footsteps of pagans rather than of People of God.


. It clearly says that God made no distinction between Jews and Gentile Christians that means that whatever he chose for Jews he chose for Gentiles, Whatever He wished for Jews he wished for Gentile, Whatever he legislated for Jews, was unconditionally legislated for the Gentiles. He categorically mentioned pork meat as unclean for Jews and so he did for Gentiles. And on the face of these words of Peter, it will be lie to say that God considered Gentile to be unclean since Peter says clearly that He makes no distinction between them and Jews.


Act 15:29 talks about not eating food sacrificed for idols , so this is where we can see that we should not be eating meat sacrificed for idols.

This proves that Jesus , The God ACCORDING TO CHRISITANS , considered pigs as unclean as the God in OT considered them as unclean , which is why he allowed demon to enter in pigs.. The God , The Creator of All will never allow demon to enter in HIS OWN CREATION. But Jesus did, proving that he considered it to be unclean. That is why even Demons asked permission to enter into pig but not into camel or goat becaust pig is unclean so are demons.

So gentile dont have to follow any rule regarding unclean or clean , eh?

here is the answer:

Acts 15:29

29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

Gentiles dont even have to follow any of OT or NT. Gentiles were never bound by the LAW.

Is there a prohibition on consumption of pork meat in Bible ?

Yes there is. Bible consists of OT and NT. In OT the prohibition is found in Leviticus 11:7-8.

Did Jesus outlaw this ruling ?

No he didnt. No where did Jesus go against this law. He infact was a good Jew and followed the Jewish law in His life and never ate pork meat.


Jesus allowing Demons into pigs.

If Jesus is God according to Bible, than how can a God permit a demon to go and reside in a pig? It is clear that Jesus considered them evil and that they are not permitted for consumption that is why they allowed the devil to go in them.


Jesus about Pigs

I will repeat it here since it as usual went unanswered and ignored

The Gospels imply that eating pork is forbidden, since Jesus murdered over 2,000 pigs by drowning them in the sea, and he will destroy the pigs on his Second Coming.

And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:32, Mark 5:13)

As per the below Hadith , he will kill the pigs for good in his 2nd coming

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 425:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts. (Sahih Bukhari)



The reason Jews were prohibited swine meat in OT:

Jews were prohibited eating of swine meat because its unclean spiritually and hygenically. It is not that God wanted Jews to stay away from pagan SYMBOLOGY. If God wanted that so he would have told Jews however the restriction is specifically for the consumption of meat.

Did Disciples after Jesus observe commandments related to unclean and clean food?

Yes, refer to Act 15:29. It points out that disciples still obsereved prohibition and hence the argument that GOD MADE ALL FOOD CLEAN is invalid.

And also Peter in Acts 10:14

"Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean"

Thus the statment that anything that goes into the stomach doesnt make unclean is ridiculous That means that Pope , being the highest figure in Christiandom today , can eat raw snakes and still there will be no effect on his spirit and body. Ah, I'm luvin it.

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

You are a like a slave of desires and whims . The pig was only sent to clean the earth and its flesh is clearly not meant for consumption

And now Christians themselves are starting to realise that pork is bad such as in below link

http://www.gnmagazine.org/video/0319...t-eat-pork.htm

[Grace Seeker]

From what we read in the Gospels, Jesus says nothing at all about eating or not eating pork, so where do his Christian followers get the idea from that it is permissible to eat pork?

We've actually answered the question a number of times. We don't say that you have to agree with us. But you don't even recognize that we have answered the question as to why we view it the way we do. Ultimately, I've come to interpret your lack of listening to reflect on you as a person who isn't actually interested in having his questions answered. You just want to make speeches. And of that you do a fine job. But your lack of listening has now bred a similar response from those you choose to verbally vomit upon.

As a prophet of Islam, Jesus would not have eaten pork, but it is highly unlikely, according even to the Gospel accounts themselves, that he would have done so as a Jew.

I acknowledge that Jesus was a Jew. And I agree that as a Jew, Jesus is indeed highly unlikely to have eaten pork. I would also agree that any prophet of Islam, as Islam is understood today, would also never eat pork. I reject as simply wrong the assertion that Jesus was a prophet of Islam. Though, because Jesus was a Jew, that point has no bearing on whether or not Jesus at pork.

[quote]
Why the change, then? Why do Christians eat pork, if they believe that their religion grew out of the Jewish one, which forbids it?
[quote]We have answered this many times, and I will not repeat those points again here unless you really can't recall them. But one thing that I will add, for your question perhaps shows an apparent lack of understanding regarding the relationship between Judaism and Christianity.

Christianity grew out of Judaism, but it is not the offspring of Judaism. If Christianity was just replicating Judaism, then it would indeed hold all the same points that Judaism does. But it is not attempting to do that. Nor does it apologize for not doing so. We hold that Christ did not come as a messenger, a teacher, or prophet. Though he was all of those things, that was not his primary role and mission. He came to reconcile mankind to God. Not by calling men to greater obedience, but by offering that obedience himself, offering it even to the point of laying his life down for humanity. In so doing, Jesus also opened up a new way for people to relate to God. Whereas the old covenant that God had made was specifically with the nation of Israel and was made known through certain practices that the Jews were commanded to obey as symbols of that covenantal relationship with God -- these were ceremonial laws with regard to what they could wear, what they could eat, the keeping of Sabbath, and circumcision (among others). But the Torah itself was a way of life that was meant to bring people into relationship with YHWH.

Sadly, the story of Israel's unfaithfulness tells us that Israel may have kept the ceremonial laws, but they never kept the true meaning of Torah. When Jesus came that would change. As you yourself noted, Jesus said:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn't come to destroy them, but to fulfill them."

This he did. And in so doing he opened the way for a new covenant, for a new way to relate to God, and even non-Jews to be made a part of this new covenant community.

The key here is the world "new". Those who became part of this new covenant community, one that Jesus himself established as he reinterpreted the meaning of the passover meal to his disciples, was not just the continuation of the old covenant with its ceremonial rituals and practices. this new covenant community would be open to all people. And the sign of inclusion would not be that which signified inclusion in the old covenant. The sign(s) of inclusion in the new covenant would be belief, profession of faith that "Jesus is Lord", baptism in his name, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

In such a case, then, we can only presume that he left untouched the instruction about pork.

this, it is in making this presumption that you err. By fulfilling the law and instituting a new covenant, he eradicated the need for their to even be any instruction about pork.

The answer, in fact, lies not with Jesus, but with the Church which grew up after him and claimed to speak in his name.

I'll actually give you that. Of course, if Jesus authorized them to speak in his name, then their words on the matter would carry that same weight as Jesus' words.

After Jesus died, according to a book called Acts of the Apostles written by St Luke, a dispute arose among his followers about those who converted to Christianity. In the earliest days, the followers of Jesus were known as "followers of the Way." They did not consider themselves as anything other than Jews, but they followed the teachings of the Jewish rabbi, Jesus. It was only later in Antioch that they first came to be called "Christians."

Some people said that if someone wanted to be a follower of Jesus, he clearly had to become a Jew first.

"But some from the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, 'It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic Law.' The apostles and the presbyters met together to see about this matter." (Acts 15:5)

A meeting was held in Jerusalem to discuss this. It was much more important than a debate about circumcision, since its results would determine the future of those who followed Jesus. There were basically two arguments.

The first was put forward by the Apostle James, heavily influenced by Peter. He upheld the traditional view about circumcision and observation of the Jewish Law. In other words, as Jews the followers of Jesus had to follow the Jewish laws.

Paul of Tarsus, on the other hand, said that there was no longer any need for those new to Christianity to observe the Mosaic Law and become Jews, since Christianity was something different to Judaism.

A compromise was reached. Those who were born as Jews but who had become followers of Jesus would continue to observe the laws of the Jews. Those who were converts did not have to. The prevailing idea was expressed by Peter,

"The truth I have come to realize is that God does not have favorites. Rather, in every nation whoever fears him and acts uprightly is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:34).

Laws particular to the Jews would no longer need to apply.

I take only a couple of small exception to your synopsis. First, you correctly note that the council in Jerusalem was precipitated by the events in Antioch. These events are first shared with the apostles and elders by Paul and Barnabas (vs. 4). They had been sharing this same story with other believers as they travelled to Jerusalemt and Luke says that "this news made all the brothers very glad" (vs. 3).

Second James did not put forth the first opinion, Peter did (vs. 7), and his argument was that to require everyone to conform to Jewish laws would be "putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our father have been able to bear." Then Barnabas and Paul spoke again.

Only when they finished did James speak up (vs. 13), and very specifically he gives his judgment "that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God" (vs. 19). He has a few things that he asks of them, but it does not include abstaining from eating pork.

Ultimately, the apostles sent a message back to the believers not only in Antioch, but also Cilicia. It informed them that those who had previously arrived their encouraging Gentiles to become Jews had done so "without [the apostles] authorization" (vs. 24). And that all that they, the apostles, were not asking them to do is "to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality" (vs. 29).

But on the whole you are right when you say:

So, you see, it was not Jesus who changed the rule about eating pork.

It was in fact the Church.

But you are wrong when you go one to say,

He was quite clear that the Law said you must not do so.

Actually, he wasn't. If he had ever said, "you must continue to eat pork as part of this new covenant community, and anyone who joins this new covenant community, even if they were not previously a Jews must abide by all of our Jewish laws to remain in it", well that would have been clear. But he didn't. He told his disciples that he was sending them the Holy Spirit. That this Spirit would guide them into all truth. And as the apostles said in their letter that they wrote to the believers in Antioch, "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you" (vs. 28), and for Christians hearing that from the Holy Spirit is tantamount to hearing it from Jesus himself.

The rest of your argument becomes meaningless, for we accept what the Spirit has said, and we aren't going to change it either for the arguments of man nor because of a book someone claims God gave him 700 years later, that contradicts what the Spirit has already shared with his Church.


Now, I know many Christians who don't eat pork. They don't do it because of specious arguments made from the standpoint of Islam. Sadly, a few do it because a Joel Osteen attempts to lead them back under Law. But the primary reason that they abstain from pork is another biblical truth, our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit; therefore, we need to take good care of them. And many have become convinced that one way to do that is to abstain from pork. But those who don't make that choice are not looked down upon, because Christian accountablity is to the guidance of the Spirit and not to the Law.

Peace.

[Supreme]

GADS!!! Another pork chop thread.

Why do we seem to make understanding of why we don't eat pork. the most important issue of Islam.

There is a very simple explanation why we don't eat pork. Allaah(swt) has forbidden us from doing so.

No further reason is needed. We have no reason to justify what Allaah(swt) has ordered.

To repeat once again.


We do not eat pork, because we obey Allaah(swt).

Allaah(swt) has forbidden it to us. Do we distrust Allaah(swt) and feel we must explain why Allaah(swt) has ordered such? Do we feel we are as knowledgeable as Allaah(swt) and fully know why He has forbidden it to us? Is it of any importance for us to explain the actions of Allaah(swt)?

I agree! There is simply no need to justify it with such nonsense as 'pork causes every disease discovered' or 'pigs are filthy, therefore the people who eat pork are filthy!' It's completely ridiculous how one would desperately and generally unfruitfully try and search for any other reason as to the prohibition of pork other than 'God commands it'.

In the first place, we need to recognize that, according to the Christian Gospels, there were pigs in Palestine at the time of Jesus (peace be upon him). In one of the Gospel accounts of Jesus healing a young man possessed with devils, Jesus commands the devils to leave the man and to go, instead, into a head of pigs.

In the story, the pigs then rush off a nearby cliff and are killed. In Saint Luke's story of the Prodigal Son, too, Jesus talks about a young man who goes off with his share of the inheritance and wastes it on wine, women and song, until he is so penniless that he has to take a job looking after pigs.

So clearly there were pigs around. What were they doing in Palestine, when Jews do not eat pork? Who were they for? In fact, both the Romans and the Greeks used to eat pork as a delicacy, so we must assume that the pigs were bred either for export or to feed the Romans who were occupying Palestine at the time.

You inability to learn is surely a worrying development in human psychology, for I and other members have explained this to you on numerous occassions!

[Oleander]

God inspire the Bible writers.

Jesus is God.

Jesus inspired the Bible writers.

God (who is) Jesus said:

" As for any beast that is a splitter of the hoof
but is not a former of the cleft and not a chewer
of the cud, they are unclean for you. Everyone
touching them will be unclean. "
Leviticus 11:26

And he said: If you love me, do what I said.

Why most Christians have no love for Jesus?

Q: I am sure if your doctor told you to stay away from certain food to stay healthy, you will do your best to do what he said.

Why not God???

[islamirama]

I agree! There is simply no need to justify it with such nonsense as 'pork causes every disease discovered' or 'pigs are filthy, therefore the people who eat pork are filthy!' It's completely ridiculous how one would desperately and generally unfruitfully try and search for any other reason as to the prohibition of pork other than 'God commands it'.

Yes, we clearly don't eat it because of the commandment of God. But the weak in faith and the ignorant kuffars wants reasons as to why we don't eat it other than it's a command from Allah. For it is enough that we are commanded not to eat it. Allah knows whats best for us with His infinite wisdom and knowledge. But man is ignorant and seeks reason, well He gave you science and technology and it isn't till man discovers himself the goods and bads of something that he stops/starts eating that.

Pig is simply the garbage disposal of mother nature. If you like eating from the garbage then be my guest. As far as this thread is concerned, the question has been answered, issue resolved.

Media Tags are no longer supported

[Supreme]

Yes, we clearly don't eat it because of the commandment of God. But the weak in faith and the ignorant kuffars wants reasons as to why we don't eat it other than it's a command from Allah. For it is enough that we are commanded not to eat it. Allah knows whats best for us with His infinite wisdom and knowledge. But man is ignorant and seeks reason, well He gave you science and technology and it isn't till man discovers himself the goods and bads of something that he stops/starts eating that.

Pig is simply the garbage disposal of mother nature. If you like eating from the garbage then be my guest. As far as this thread is concerned, the question has been answered, issue resolved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWFGgIYv0c

Science has also discovered that pork, like all meats, is an excellent source of protein. It is a good source of fat, and rich in vitamin B1, B12, zinc and selenium, all of which are essential to a balanced diet:

http://www.meatmatters.com/sections/...ela_Dowden.pdf

Nutritional Value of Pork:
Pork makes to the position of most widely consumed meat till today, with being bred almost in all major parts of the world. It is a rich source of proteins and fats. This meat being used to make sausages, ham and bacon is an essential part of people's daily nutrients requirement in many countries. No doubt, Pork has always been an energy packed food.

Nutrition Facts and Information about Pork:
Pork has a high mineral content of Phosphorus, Selenium, Sodium, Zinc, Potassium and Copper. The two minerals which are present in good quantities are Iron and Magnesium, while Calcium and Mangnese are found in traces only.

Vitamin Content of Pork:
Pork is highly enriched with Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Thiamin, Niacin, Riboflavin and Pantothenic Acid. However, Vitamin A and Vitamin E are found in very small amounts.

Calorie Content of Pork:
Calorific value of Pork is 458.0 per 100 gm. This is quite high when compared to other animal products like chicken.

Health Benefits of Pork:
Consumption of Pork in moderate quantities is helpful in gaining energy. It is good for skin, eyes, nervous system, bones and mental performance. Intake of Pork also ensures better immunity to body due to presence of essential antioxidants.

http://www.organicfacts.net/nutritio...-and-pork.html

Now, with all due respect, it seems you are cherry picking the bad things of pork and completely ignoring its benefits. Almost anything in excess will cause disease- heck, even water would kill you if drunk in excess. However, if eaten as part of a balanced diet, pork can be just as healthy, is not healthier, than any other meat.

[جوري]

You can get your proteins eating beetles and cockroaches!
the funny things folks go through to change the commandments

[Rabi Mansur]

This whole discussion reminds me of how Mormons try to justify their dietary practices as found in their scriptures. They are not allowed to drink tea, coffee, or alcohol. And they are not allowed to use tobacco. For many years they argued that these were supported by scientific and health studies. But that has recently changed.

Modern science has found a number of health benefits to drinking tea, especially green tea. And coffee has turned out to be beneficial as well. Tobacco is the one area that Mormons have right. Alcohol is somewhat problemmatic depending on the person I guess...very harmful for some people, not so harmful for others if consumed in moderation.

Anyway, when Mormons are confronted with the scientific evidence about tea and coffee they try to grasp at straws to defend the ban. They are losing the scientific argument.

In the end, their best argument is obedience. If they believe in their scriptures, they believe they should follow their dietary practices. Plain and simple.

I think Islam should do the same. They should simply state that Pork is forbidden in the Qur'an and therefore we don't eat pork. The health arguments, scientific arguments, etc., don't ring true and are not all that persuasive, especially to a nonmuslim. It is a simple question of following the Qur'an.

:wa:

[islamirama]

Science has also discovered that pork, like all meats, is an excellent source of protein. It is a good source of fat, and rich in vitamin B1, B12, zinc and selenium, all of which are essential to a balanced diet:
.

I'll use a Quranic verse on intoxicants and gambling to answer your diet statement:

"...Say: “In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.” ..." (2:219)

If you really want to talk about proteins and diets why don't you quit eating everything and start having a sip of semen everyday. It contains all the nutritional needs you are required in a day and its fast and efficient.

[Supreme]

You can get your proteins eating beetles and cockroaches!
the funny things folks go through to change the commandments

No cheap retort at Christian theology? No smug, wasted remark on how we worship a demi man god concieved by a peasant girl whilst following the teachings of Devil Saul? I was getting oh so used to it becoming customary in your posts! However, in response to your post, beetles and cockroaches are too inefficient in terms of energy. Meat is generally inefficient anyway, thanks to the energy the animal wastes moving and keeping warm and through excretion, however eating cockroaches and beetles is biologically too inefficient!

I think Islam should do the same. They should simply state that Pork is forbidden in the Qur'an and therefore we don't eat pork. The health arguments, scientific arguments, etc., don't ring true and are not all that persuasive, especially to a nonmuslim. It is a simple question of following the Qur'an.

I agree! Will someone please change the record from this nonsense about pork being the unhealthiest food in creation! The Quran says so, and that should suffice as to why Muslims refrain from consuming it. God doesn't need a justification to His commands, irregardless of how irrational.

If you really want to talk about proteins and diets why don't you quit eating everything and start having a sip of semen everyday. It contains all the nutritional needs you are required in a day and its fast and efficient.

And vice versa for those who claim that pork is so bad! Pork has draw backs, sure, although so does every food. We may as well retreat to 'having a sip of semen a day', as you put it, if we dwell over the trivial and rae health defects that may, on the off chance, result from eating pork!

[جوري]

I'll use a Quranic verse on intoxicants and gambling to answer your diet statement:

"...Say: “In them is great harm, and a benefit for the people; but their harm is greater than their benefit.” ..." (2:219)

If you really want to talk about proteins and diets why don't you quit eating everything and start having a sip of semen everyday. It contains all the nutritional needs you are required in a day and its fast and efficient.

rofl.. I was going to mention that along protein rich diets, but figured it would be too enabling to our homosexual crowd!

[جوري]

No cheap retort at Christian theology? No smug, wasted remark on how we worship a demi man god concieved by a peasant girl whilst following the teachings of Devil Saul? I was getting oh so used to it becoming customary in your posts! However, in response to your post, beetles and cockroaches are too inefficient in terms of energy. Meat is generally inefficient anyway, thanks to the energy the animal wastes moving and keeping warm and through excretion, however eating cockroaches and beetles is biologically too inefficient!

I'll leave the ineffectual verbiage to you as usual!
not necessarily so, as it depends on how many bugs you are willing to down to make a moot point!

agree! Will someone please change the record from this nonsense about pork being the unhealthiest food in creation! The Quran says so, and that should suffice as to why Muslims refrain from consuming it. God doesn't need a justification to His commands, irregardless of how irrational.

It remains a part of an unhealthy diet, but in fact if you scroll back to the previous pages you'll find a couple of things:

1- the post wasn't directed at christians.
2- Most Muslims in here (including myself) have stated that all there needs be to make it a prohibition is that God willed it so.
we don't eat pigs anymore than we eat rhino surely they too have proteins and B vits which by the way you can get simply licking the bottom of your shoe that is how abundant that water soluble compound is.
3- as stated previously pig eating is the least of the christian problem and let me cement that with the usual, a god, espousing a human woman and impregnating her with himself, suckling, and dying after begging himself not to be forsaken and abrogating his commandments through his Nemesis Saul does seem to be the bigger lard to swallow in this picture!


Pigs remain holders of some of the most lethal diseases in medicine, every animal is capable of making us sick it is true & I have so professed.. however a diphyllobothrium latum from a fish can't equate to neurocysticercosis from a pig!

all the best!

[Grace Seeker]

God inspire the Bible writers.

Jesus is God.

Jesus inspired the Bible writers.

God (who is) Jesus said:

" As for any beast that is a splitter of the hoof
but is not a former of the cleft and not a chewer
of the cud, they are unclean for you. Everyone
touching them will be unclean. "
Leviticus 11:26


And he said: If you love me, do what I said.

You conflate these statements. The first statement was directed at one specific group of people AND THEM ONLY!!

If Muslims believe it was the word of God for all who love Jesus, and I understand that Muslims love Jesus, then why don't Muslim follow the whole of these teachings. Why do they only follow some of these teachings?

I am sure if your doctor told you to stay away from certain food to stay healthy, you will do your best to do what he said.

Why not God???

Well, first, God never told me to stay away from any particular food. He told Jews to do that, but I am not a Jew.

Second, even when God told the Jews to stay away from certain foods, he never said it had to do with their health. It had to do with their identity as members of the covenant that he had made with the nation of Israel. Whether those foods were healthy or not was irrelevant to the reason for Jews obeying them, just like it isn't because of health issues by obedience that Muslims obey the guidance they have received in the Qur'an. I would even go so far as to say if the only reason that a Muslim or a Jew were to obey the laws their respective groups received was not because God said to obey, but because they determined that obedience would be health and God was theefore right. Then they aren't really obeying God/Allah but their own human reason. Such an action is not the same thing as submission, for the act does not come from the heart. It is to make one a judge of God/Allah and I would actually call such an attitude sinful.

[Grace Seeker]

You can get your proteins eating beetles and cockroaches!
the funny things folks go through to change the commandments

No one is changing any commandments. The Jews are still to live by the commandments they receive, the Muslims by those that they received, and the Christian to live by the command of Christ and the guidance of the Holy Spirit -- we have no other command beyond these.

[Supreme]

I'll leave the ineffectual verbiage to you as usual!
not necessarily so, as it depends on how many bugs you are willing to down to make a moot point!

Well, eating lots of bugs in itself is inefficient, not only energy wise, but ecology wise. One cannot simply exterminate an entire bug colony just to have breakfast- that would be inefficient!

1- the post wasn't directed at christians

My post never mentioned Christian attitudes towards pork, and this thread is not about Christianity...

Muslims in here (including myself) have stated that all there needs be to make it a prohibition is that God willed it so.
we don't eat pigs anymore than we eat rhino surely they too have proteins and B vits which by the way you can get simply licking the bottom of your shoe that is how abundant that water soluble compound is.

What a strawman. We are not talking about wild, endangered species here that are only found in Africa and are generally never eaten- such lacklustre comparisons just show how much thought you have on the subject!

3- as stated previously pig eating is the least of the christian problem and let me cement that with the usual, a god, espousing a human woman and impregnating her with himself, suckling, and dying after begging himself not to be forsaken and abrogating his commandments through his Nemesis Saul does seem to be the bigger lard to swallow in this picture!

You're digressing this thread again, although your (clearly personal) problem with Christianity as expressed persistently in unrelated rants and nonsensical ravings at every oppurtunity you get are frankly getting rather dull and boring! Change the record, move on, stop diverting the topic.

Pigs remain holders of some of the most lethal diseases in medicine, every animal is capable of making us sick it is true & I have so professed.. however a diphyllobothrium latum from a fish can't equate to neurocysticercosis from a pig!

And neither of them can equate to anything short of rarities!

[Justufy]

This whole discussion reminds me of how Mormons try to justify their dietary practices as found in their scriptures. They are not allowed to drink tea, coffee, or alcohol. And they are not allowed to use tobacco. For many years they argued that these were supported by scientific and health studies. But that has recently changed.

Modern science has found a number of health benefits to drinking tea, especially green tea. And coffee has turned out to be beneficial as well. Tobacco is the one area that Mormons have right. Alcohol is somewhat problemmatic depending on the person I guess...very harmful for some people, not so harmful for others if consumed in moderation.

Anyway, when Mormons are confronted with the scientific evidence about tea and coffee they try to grasp at straws to defend the ban. They are losing the scientific argument.

In the end, their best argument is obedience. If they believe in their scriptures, they believe they should follow their dietary practices. Plain and simple.

I think Islam should do the same. They should simply state that Pork is forbidden in the Qur'an and therefore we don't eat pork. The health arguments, scientific arguments, etc., don't ring true and are not all that persuasive, especially to a nonmuslim. It is a simple question of following the Qur'an.

:wa:

I think you are correct, Pork is forbidden because ''God said so'' Not because of any other pathetic attempts at trying to prove scientifically or otherwise that pork is ''evil''.
If God would of said that ice-cream or milk is evil I’m sure we would be assisting to posts like the walls of text I have encountered here attempting to give a rational explanation on why these (milk and ice-cream) is forbidden while it’s obvious that none will be found. The more rational argument here is that religious rites/practises are influenced by a sociohistorical context, Il give an example, in the Buddhist faith, Pork’s are consider vile and greedy animals, It can be advanced that maybe this is the reason people back then in the Islamic faith considered Pork’s impure: Pigs look like greedy animals eating all they see, or maybe they had some special importance.
Besides I repeat, how can material food affect the immaterial soul?

On another note I would like to point out to those of us here who like attacking people on grammar and whatnot that a thing is not true because spoken magnificently nor false because badly uttered.

[Justufy]

Besides its a red herring to say that God forbade Pork because its bad for your health. For the simple reason that most of the diseases listed here by some users weren't known until very recently and the effects of such and such a food wasent know until very recently, of course we can argue that God knew since the begining and we were ignorant, but in that case why didn't he bann energy drinks? or any other example I cant think of right now, its bad for your health right? so why wouldnt he step up and ban them now? what about cigarette? he could to kill 2 birds with one stone and bann that also.

Pork is the most Dépassé food bann nowadays, even the club for lobbster rights has more credit.

[جوري]

Well, eating lots of bugs in itself is inefficient, not only energy wise, but ecology wise. One cannot simply exterminate an entire bug colony just to have breakfast- that would be inefficient!

Where do you come up with this stuff.. have you any clue how many bugs there are in the world or rats? rats are a good source of protein too.. pls try that let me know how you fare!

My post never mentioned Christian attitudes towards pork, and this thread is not about Christianity...

Then why are you posting here?

What a strawman. We are not talking about wild, endangered species here that are only found in Africa and are generally never eaten- such lacklustre comparisons just show how much thought you have on the subject!

You find strawman in truth as you find gods in men..
The problem isn't in the factuality of what is written, it is in the way you are able to process information in a style that is sure to cause you a radical paradigm shift!

You're digressing this thread again, although your (clearly personal) problem with Christianity as expressed persistently in unrelated rants and nonsensical ravings at every oppurtunity you get are frankly getting rather dull and boring! Change the record, move on, stop diverting the topic.

I do find christianity nonsensical, but it is very much in keeping with this thread and not a digression.. if it is getting boring you can take the nearest exit.. I take from your incessant need to reply with irrelevant comments that it excites you rather than bores you!

And neither of them can equate to anything short of rarities!

sitting in a classroom when suddenly a man enters and says, I'll kill only one of you if any of you don't remain silent for the next thirty minutes, he flashes his gun around, there is a hundred in the class and you figure, well that is just one percent of us and it is negligible, I am going flirt with this blond chic next to me.. if you are willing to take that chance, then so be it.. a negligible percent is 100% when it is your life at stake!

all the best

[Justufy]

a negligible percent is 100% when it is your life at stake!

Then why are some pork products successful worldwide? I think I would think twice before eating what you compare to a gun carrying maniac. I guess congratulation on finding some material to sue some of the most successful food enterprises with. Take this to court you may get lucky and win some money, just like the lady that won thousands of $$ after burning herself with a McDonald Coffey cup.

[Argamemnon]

If locked in a room for 2 whole weeks with the only food available being pork I’m certain that Gossamer Sky and the majority here would jump on and gorge on the meat (salvation be ****ed). Its hypocrisy to think otherwise, such is our human condition.

we are allowed to eat all that is forbidden if it's a matter of life and death.

[جوري]

^^ I wouldn't bother with that guy!

:w:

[Argamemnon]

^^I don't know him, but I trust you :-)

:wa:

[Supreme]

I liked it when this thread was locked.

[Uthman]

As Uncle Woodrow mentioned before the forum crashed, the reason that Muslims don't eat pork is out of obedience to Allah. Besides that, there are many wisdoms that we can derive behind the prohibition of pork, some of which have been mentioned in this thread.

With that explained, I'll close this thread again as Uncle Woodrow did before the forum went down.