11 Year Old Gives Birth

[islamirama]

11 Year Old Gives Birth

February 5, 2010 by saf

11 Year Old Gives Birth is the headline of all newspapers and tabloids in London. It is reported in a story that an 11 year old gives birth to a boy in the metropolis. About thirty years ago, such news could have created uproar in the society. But in the modern era, the news of 11 year old gives birth does not jolt that much, rather it has become an acceptable matter not only for other people but also for parents as well. Today, the standard of morality has gone through a drastic change. What was immoral and unacceptable in the past, is now tolerable. Any criticism from any quarter on such issues is considered encroachment upon human rights.

As per media information, a young girl who is just eleven years old has become a mother of a boy recently. Her parents are reportedly happy on becoming grand parents. They said that the girl and the newborn are in good health. The doctor also spoke to the media. He said that the young mother was being closely observed during her pregnancy, because she was exposed to high risk factor due to her tender age. In the western countries, such young mothers are in abundance now-a-days. There are hundreds of teenage mothers.

But in the instant case, the mother is not a teenager yet. She is herself a kid needed to be looked after by her parents. In this situation, it will be very difficult for her to bring up her child.

Such incidents are the consequences of free-sex society. Girls of tender age indulge into sexual activities. Pornographic material is readily available in printed as well as visual form and is accessible to people of all ages. No doubt, there are warnings for under-age kids, but its easy availability cannot be avoided.

http://www.khurak.net/11-year-old-gives-birth-0015137/

[Sawdah]

SubhanAllah...
11?! :heated:
Was she raped or something?

[cat eyes]

:wa: nah it really has nothing to do where your living brother its how your parents raised you at the end of the day there is a growing number of pakistani familes here. my friend has two sisters aged 11 to 13 and they go to non muslim schools here.. they are so well raised that you would not believe.

They are so deep into education and concentrating on wanting to be a doctor like there dad, that is there aim. there parents are wonderful and spoil me when i go to there home

[Supreme]

She must have been raped. I'd chuck the father in prison- he's either a peadophile or a pervert likely to become a sex offender when he's older.

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[Supreme]

Just found this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...st-mother.html

She was raped by a 15 year old. She's also a chain smoker. In short: the sort of waste of space that taxpayers money is being used on.

EDIT- this may be a different case but it's relevant nonetheless.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

SubhanAllah...
11?

:sl:
What's so astonishing about this...? It is, but how repugnant!!!!!!!!!:raging::raging::raging::raging: :raging::raging:
What happened to that poor girl...?

[cat eyes]

i say she came from one of those junky chav families in u.k:rolleyes:

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Just found this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...st-mother.html

She was raped by a 15 year old. She's also a chain smoker. In short: the sort of waste of space that taxpayers money is being used on.

OH!!!! how sick, her mother too...her mother must be embarrassed by this nevertheless she is proud.:raging::raging::raging:

[Karl]

Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

[aadil77]

Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

Brother do you have a source for that?

[Karl]

:sl:
What's so astonishing about this...? It is, but how repugnant!!!!!!!!!:raging::raging::raging::raging: :raging::raging:
What happened to that poor girl...?

What is your problem? "poor girl"??? She is just a young pregnant woman. She didn't get murdered or anything! She may not have married first so that makes it zina but you are making out that she is a "victim", but she was not raped. The word "rape" is legal semantics in this case. Again what is your problem? And who are you to judge?

[awais]

Such incidents are the consequences of free-sex society. Girls of tender age indulge into sexual activities. Pornographic material

Young girls give birth at very young ages in muslim countries too, it's not cuz they're fornicating, they're married. Rasul Allah :saws: married Aisha, Mother of the Believers, radiAllahu anha, when she was 6 and consummated the marriage (had sex) when she 9.

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is..

yes , Mother Aisha ra came to Prophet's home to start her married life when she was 9 .

Now a days , u try to arrange marriage of a 16 yrs old girl , u will be jailed for it while many young girls have unlimited boyfriends and illegal childs :hmm:

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

this sunnah is not a sunnah to be followed. It was a special case because Allah decreed it.

Allah did not fixed any minimum age for marriage ; also there is no maximum age gap between spouses mentioned in holy Quran . So , if a girl is not forced in to marriage and parents also did not arrange the marriage just because they are unable to pay a loan etc , then marriage is valid if a girl is 9 and husband is much older than her .

U ask any Indian Hindu or Muslims from Indo - Pak continent , they will tell u thier grand mothers , mothers got married when they were 10 , 12 or 13. Young marraige was common not only among Muslims but in different socities around the world even in US only 100 yrs ago.


What Allah did not forbid , we must not condemn it . Also we should remember young marriage is not a must.


And Allah Knows Best.

[islamirama]

:sl:



Allah did not fixed any minimum age for marriage ; also there is no maximum age gap between spouses mentioned in holy Quran . So , if a girl is not forced in to marriage and parents also did not arrange the marriage just because they are unable to pay a loan etc , then marriage is valid if a girl is 9 and husband is much older than her .

U ask any Indian Hindu or Muslims from Indo - Pak continent , they will tell u thier grand mothers , mothers got married when they were 10 , 12 or 13. Young marraige was common not only among Muslims but in different socities around the world even in US only 100 yrs ago.


What Allah did not forbid , we must not condemn it . Also we should remember young marriage is not a must.


And Allah Knows Best.

:wa:

No one is saying it is fixed or what not. If you ask those same SE Asians and they'll tell you how the husband was abusive in most cases. Islam also educates us to choose someone that is compatible. In MOST cases a 9yr old is not compatible with a 40+ yr old these days. Also, in Islam you can't just marry anyone you want. Your unborn kids have a right over you to choose a good partner. How is a 9yr old going to support fatherless kids at 20 when her husband long gone?

['Abd Al-Maajid]

What is your problem? "poor girl"??? She is just a young pregnant woman. She didn't get murdered or anything! She may not have married first so that makes it zina but you are making out that she is a "victim", but she was not raped. The word "rape" is legal semantics in this case. Again what is your problem? And who are you to judge?

Yes, I was wrong at drawing false assumption that she was raped...:hmm: My bad...why should I bother even she commits zina or gets raped or murdered...I think I should stop reading to these kind of news.

Originally posted by Karl http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...ml#post1309009
Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

Do you have any reliable source for this...or just you said it...

[cat eyes]

Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

please use the term maryam may Allah be pleased with her and prophet isa pbuh

i dont know where you got this evidence from:hmm: you should fear Allah when talking about things you have no knowledge of or give a source always on this forum

[Supreme]

What is your problem? "poor girl"??? She is just a young pregnant woman. She didn't get murdered or anything! She may not have married first so that makes it zina but you are making out that she is a "victim", but she was not raped. The word "rape" is legal semantics in this case. Again what is your problem? And who are you to judge?

That's just the thing though- she isn't a 'woman', not in any sense of the word. She is a girl. A child. She was 'raped'- she was under the legal age of consent, and dangerously so- by five years (16 is the age of consent). I'm not sure about you, but in my opinion, children should not have sexual intercourse- it is morally, ethically, scientifically, and psychologically wrong. And anyone who thinks that having sex with children is fine and the 'norm' is, in my opinion, no better than a peadophile themselves.

Yes, I was wrong at drawing false assumption that she was raped... My bad...why should I bother even she commits zina or gets raped or murdered...I think I should stop reading to these kind of news.

Don't apologise. Karl is a member that thinks the BBC is invading India, and now he seems to think raping young girls is fine.

i dont know where you got this evidence from you should fear Allah when talking about things you have no knowledge of or give a source always on this forum

I'm not sure where Karl got that evidence from- the same website that says the BBC is invading India and it's fine for 11 year old girls to have sex I suspect!

[Karl]

That's just the thing though- she isn't a 'woman', not in any sense of the word. She is a girl. A child. She was 'raped'- she was under the legal age of consent, and dangerously so- by five years (16 is the age of consent). I'm not sure about you, but in my opinion, children should not have sexual intercourse- it is morally, ethically, scientifically, and psychologically wrong. And anyone who thinks that having sex with children is fine and the 'norm' is, in my opinion, no better than a peadophile themselves.



Don't apologise. Karl is a member that thinks the BBC is invading India, and now he seems to think raping young girls is fine.



I'm not sure where Karl got that evidence from- the same website that says the BBC is invading India and it's fine for 11 year old girls to have sex I suspect!

Wow what a perfect little systemite, you have all your politically correct ducks in a row, and full of lies too. It is Impossible for children to have babies only women can! Shame you are not a Christian are you? You sound like some kind of commie pommie. A real Christian would not antagonize the truth. I don't need an Antichrist commie picking on me. Don't speak to me or about me ever again, Supreme. I'm sick of your commie politically correct crap.

[Karl]

:sl:



Allah did not fixed any minimum age for marriage ; also there is no maximum age gap between spouses mentioned in holy Quran . So , if a girl is not forced in to marriage and parents also did not arrange the marriage just because they are unable to pay a loan etc , then marriage is valid if a girl is 9 and husband is much older than her .

U ask any Indian Hindu or Muslims from Indo - Pak continent , they will tell u thier grand mothers , mothers got married when they were 10 , 12 or 13. Young marraige was common not only among Muslims but in different socities around the world even in US only 100 yrs ago.


What Allah did not forbid , we must not condemn it . Also we should remember young marriage is not a must.


And Allah Knows Best.

Excellent posts, Muslim Woman! :)

Unfortunately a lot of Muslims, Hindus, Christians etc these days are kowtowing to the secularist new world order and it's control of all facets of life based on the numerical AGE of the individual. This is subjective and illogical but it has taken over and crushed all forms of reason. It is pure prejudice based on the numerical age of someone.

[Supreme]

Wow what a perfect little systemite, you have all your politically correct ducks in a row, and full of lies too. It is Impossible for children to have babies only women can! Shame you are not a Christian are you? You sound like some kind of commie pommie. A real Christian would not antagonize the truth. I don't need an Antichrist commie picking on me. Don't speak to me or about me ever again, Supreme. I'm sick of your commie politically correct crap.

No, that was the supposed to be the post where you say 'I abhore any child having sexual intercourse, it's wrong!'

I could also do with you not attempting to define what a 'real' Christian is or the stupid commie insults!

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


I request mod to delete all off topic comments posted in the thread. Thanks.

[MSalman]

putting aside the rape part

That's just the thing though- she isn't a 'woman', not in any sense of the word.

define adulthood for us please?

She is a girl. A child.

according to who? And how did a child girl get pregnant in the first place?

I'm not sure about you, but in my opinion, children should not have sexual intercourse- it is morally, ethically, scientifically, and psychologically wrong. And anyone who thinks that having sex with children is fine and the 'norm' is, in my opinion, no better than a peadophile themselves.

you got a very nice logic going on here.

Premise A: According to me a person under age X is a child. And this holds because I said so.
Premise B: I am going to assume that everyone has to judge whether someone is adult or child according to my first premise
Premise C: Sex with a child is unethical
Conclusion: Hence, sex with child under age X is unethical; therefore, whoever disagrees is supporting child molestation and they are pedophile.

1 - No one said that sex with a child is NOT ethically wrong. So that point is very much irrelevant and straw man attack.

2 - The world doesn't surround you that we have to follow your definition of whether someone is still a child.

3 - If 11 years old is still a child then I wonder why did your man-god made Marry (peace be upon her) give birth to your man-god when she was only 12 years old (a child according to you)? Why did your man-god made her go through such hardship?

[aadil77]

3 - If 11 years old is still a child then I wonder why did your man-god made Marry (peace be upon her) give birth to your man-god when she was only 12 years old (a child according to you)? Why did your man-god made her go through such hardship?

Bro can you or someone else please provide islamic evidence for that statement, I asked bro Karl but he didn't reply

[MSalman]

^bro, there is no Islamic evidence per say but there are historical evidences for that.

[Supreme]

define adulthood for us please?

Yep, the state of becoming completely developed, both sexually and physically. Most cultures recognize this to be 15-21, some even as young as 13, but I don't know of any culture that says 11.

according to who? And how did a child girl get pregnant in the first place?

According to law and the majority of people. And I'm not going to explain the birds and the bees to you. If you want to know how someone gets pregnant, maybe Wikipedia is your safest bet!

1 - No one said that sex with a child is NOT ethically wrong. So that point is very much irrelevant and straw man attack.

Karl implied it, when he said she wasn't raped and that as long as she's not murdered, it's not a crime!

2 - The world doesn't surround you that we have to follow your definition of whether someone is still a child.

Can you name me a single culture that doesn't think that people who are 11 are children? Anywhere where 11 year olds are considered adults? I think you'll find the world is pretty much unanimous in that respect.

3 - If 11 years old is still a child then I wonder why did your man-god made Marry (peace be upon her) give birth to your man-god when she was only 12 years old (a child according to you)? Why did your man-god made her go through such hardship?

I don't know what sources you got this nonsense that the Virgin Mary was 12 when she gave birth to Jesus from, although knowing you it was most likely a half baked 'fact' you invented on the spot!

[Karina]

11 Year Old Gives Birth

February 5, 2010 by saf

11 Year Old Gives Birth is the headline of all newspapers and tabloids in London. It is reported in a story that an 11 year old gives birth to a boy in the metropolis. About thirty years ago, such news could have created uproar in the society. But in the modern era, the news of 11 year old gives birth does not jolt that much, rather it has become an acceptable matter not only for other people but also for parents as well. Today, the standard of morality has gone through a drastic change. What was immoral and unacceptable in the past, is now tolerable. Any criticism from any quarter on such issues is considered encroachment upon human rights.

As per media information, a young girl who is just eleven years old has become a mother of a boy recently. Her parents are reportedly happy on becoming grand parents. They said that the girl and the newborn are in good health. The doctor also spoke to the media. He said that the young mother was being closely observed during her pregnancy, because she was exposed to high risk factor due to her tender age. In the western countries, such young mothers are in abundance now-a-days. There are hundreds of teenage mothers.

But in the instant case, the mother is not a teenager yet. She is herself a kid needed to be looked after by her parents. In this situation, it will be very difficult for her to bring up her child.

Such incidents are the consequences of free-sex society. Girls of tender age indulge into sexual activities. Pornographic material is readily available in printed as well as visual form and is accessible to people of all ages. No doubt, there are warnings for under-age kids, but its easy availability cannot be avoided.

http://www.khurak.net/11-year-old-gives-birth-0015137/

Err, I think we need to remember what the OP was trying to get accross with his post. Namely, that "free-sex society" produces horrifying stories of chronically underage motherhood and nobody gives a **** any more.

First, I'd like to point out that the girl, according to the news report, was raped by her step father Michael Chaffer, and maybe this is the issue that needs to be broached. Secondly, the source provided is not necessarily reputable in that it appears to be some random person's blogged opinion on the said news report. Thirdly, the girl is not from London, but Ohio I believe - wrong continent. Forth - I don't know in which type of society the author of the said article resides...."But in the modern era, the news of 11 year old gives birth does not jolt that much, rather it has become an acceptable matter not only for other people but also for parents as well" - total rubbish! This would not be "acceptable" in any shape or form and I don't know anyone who would disagree!!

Sorry for ranting, but it irks me that this kind of trash can be posted, obviously with an intent to poke ridicule at Western society, and the source not questioned. Like I've said before, there are many issues that need to be dealt with and many that are deserved of that ridicule, but hey, there is no need to scrape the barrell with this c**p.

:hiding::omg::enough!::heated:

[aadil77]

^bro, there is no Islamic evidence per say but there are historical evidences for that.

Yh bro we can't rely on those sources for information relating to our deen, so basically we say we don't know how old Mariam was when she gave birth to nabi Isa

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I don't know what sources you got this nonsense that the Virgin Mary was 12 when she gave birth to Jesus

I asked a Rabbi and others about her age 2/3 yrs back . Answers I got like this : She was not more than 14/15 . It was a tradition that women got married early . Also , she was staying in a Jewish temple and it was not allowed for any woman to stay inside a temple after puberty.

So , according to modern law , if Mother Mary ra would have given birth to Prophet Jesus pbuh now a days , surely earthy father of Jesus pbuh be in trouble for child abuse ( eek sorry for the mistakes in tense :( )

If u browse , u will see many Catholics believe she was 12 .

.....Blessed Virgin Mary remained in the Temple from the age of three and how Saint Joseph, who was a widower, was designated to look after her from the age of twelve. The priests of the Temple had gathered all the widowers together and Joseph was the one chosen when a dove miraculously emerged from his staff.

http://www.opusdei.us/art.php?p=16073

[Karl]

No, that was the supposed to be the post where you say 'I abhore any child having sexual intercourse, it's wrong!'

WHAT are you TALKING about?? I did NOT ever say that quote!! It is not up for me to judge others. What people do in their private affairs is none of my business. I do NOT abhore children (or so-called) having sexual relations. I do consider it perfectly ok if they are MARRIED first, as is set forth by both Islamic and Christian teachings. If it was so inherently "abhorent" for children to indulge sexually, then it would have been stipulated again and again and again in the holy books. It would have been one of the 10 commandments! But plain and simple fact is that there is not even ONE example of condemnation of child sexual relations in any of the Abrahamic faiths. Same goes with Hindu religion as well.

Such issue is ultimately something to be decided upon by PARENTAL discretion and prerogative. It is NOT a social matter, it is a DOMESTIC matter! Parents should raise their offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. End of story.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

Parents should raise their offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. .

Parent must do it according to their holy book. Specially Muslims who believe Quranic laws are applicable til the last day and not to be changed accrording to men made laws.

[Karl]

Yep, the state of becoming completely developed, both sexually and physically. Most cultures recognize this to be 15-21, some even as young as 13, but I don't know of any culture that says 11.

Well an old German proverb states that adulthood begins at 12. But anyway, what has "culture" got to do with biological REALITY? Don't conflate the two. Just because something is cultural doesn't automatically make it CORRECT. Having said that, I agree with the old world German culture that considers age 12 to be a young adult. The reason why you see so many imbeciles considering that adulthood isn't reached until 18 or 21 is because they are idiotically confusing LEGAL SEMANTICS and the "age of majority" with biological reality.

According to law and the majority of people. And I'm not going to explain the birds and the bees to you. If you want to know how someone gets pregnant, maybe Wikipedia is your safest bet!

LOL, thought you'd be one to put all your trust in Wikipedia. You did NOT also answer his question. He asked you HOW can a "child" become pregnant? And you said look up Wikipedia because you couldn't be bothered explaining the birds and the bees. You really like to prevaricate and go off on tangents and reply with irrelevant answers when you know you have lost your argument. Wikipedia might explain HOW a mammal becomes pregnant, BUT it will NOT explain how a JUVENILE becomes pregnant. Why? This is BECAUSE it is simply biologically IMPOSSIBLE for a prepubescent to produce young!!

Karl implied it, when he said she wasn't raped and that as long as she's not murdered, it's not a crime!

You are correct that I stated that it is not ethically wrong to have full sexual intercourse with a post-pubescent as long as they are married first. And it is not ethically wrong to have erotic/sensual "outercourse" with a PREpubescent, but again only as long as they are married first. However, anal penetration is ethically wrong under Christian and Islamic teachings, and that doesn't matter WHAT age or what sex they are. It's taboo across the board. The reasons for this is because of potentially serious medical conditions arising from anal penetration.

Can you name me a single culture that doesn't think that people who are 11 are children? Anywhere where 11 year olds are considered adults? I think you'll find the world is pretty much unanimous in that respect.

Again you are confusing culture with scientific reality. To answer your question regarding "culture" though, in Islamic culture there is no actual set arbitrary "lunar age" when one is considered "adult". This is because different races and individuals mature at vastly different rates. Under Islam adulthood is defined by menses, and seeing many females are at menses by age 11 (and even younger) then they would be considered young adults. As I said, different hominid species mature at vastly different ages. I am Teutonic and we reach puberty at the average age of 9, and we are fully fledged and fully grown by 12.

I don't know what sources you got this nonsense that the Virgin Mary was 12 when she gave birth to Jesus from, although knowing you it was most likely a half baked 'fact' you invented on the spot!

As Muslim Woman correctly said, many Catholics have stated that she was 11 when Jesus was conceived and his birth was when she was 12. Aramaic historians have made these findings. So don't attack us for going by what prevalent Catholic conclusion is in this regard.

[Karl]

:sl:




Parent must do it according to their holy book. Specially Muslims who believe Quranic laws are applicable til the last day and not to be changed accrording to men made laws.

I absolutely agree, sister. Muslims cannot apply laws that are contrary to the sunnah. What I was specifically meaning was that parents of each creed (religious or atheist or otherwise) should raise their own offspring as they see fit. That's why there is trouble in places like Yemen and Saudi Arabia with apostates trying to impose secular marriage age laws on Muslims. "Age laws" are nothing but a socialist dogma. They are a complete anathema against Allah.

[Supreme]

WHAT are you TALKING about?? I did NOT ever say that quote!! It is not up for me to judge others. What people do in their private affairs is none of my business. I do NOT abhore children (or so-called) having sexual relations. I do consider it perfectly ok if they are MARRIED first, as is set forth by both Islamic and Christian teachings. If it was so inherently "abhorent" for children to indulge sexually, then it would have been stipulated again and again and again in the holy books. It would have been one of the 10 commandments! But plain and simple fact is that there is not even ONE example of condemnation of child sexual relations in any of the Abrahamic faiths. Same goes with Hindu religion as well.

Such issue is ultimately something to be decided upon by PARENTAL discretion and prerogative. It is NOT a social matter, it is a DOMESTIC matter! Parents should raise their offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. End of story.

Ok, so let's talk science. No 11 year old has fully undergone puberty. Understand! Menstruation does not qualify as passing puberty, especially as it can be a very early stage!

Just to clarify, there is not a single Christian who believe having sex with 11 year old girls is 'normal' or 'acceptable'. It isn't mentioned in scriptures because one would have thought having sex with children is pretty much off the cards without having to use sacred texts to convey that message- nothing wrong with a bit of common sense!

As Muslim Woman correctly said, many Catholics have stated that she was 11 when Jesus was conceived and his birth was when she was 12. Aramaic historians have made these findings. So don't attack us for going by what prevalent Catholic conclusion is in this regard.

'many Catholics'!!??? I've yet to meet one Catholic who thinks this. But even so, since when did Muslims get their information from Catholic tradition (tradition as in it isn't in the Bible or any reliable source).

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

..'many Catholics'!!??? I've yet to meet one Catholic who thinks this..

I am banned in the Catholic forum . Can u pl. go there and ask Catholics about the age of Mother Mary ra when she got married ?

since when did Muslims get their information from Catholic tradition

:p I guess , since when Christians started thinking that young marriage is illegal and unethical , Muslims are trying to convince them it's l00 % lawful according to all major holy books :statisfie

Remember , according to ur holy book , God's son David pbuh married a young virgin when he was at death bed . He was minimum 60 and according to jewish tradition of the past , the young wife was maximum 13 or 14.

Is not it a clear proof for Chrisitians that age gap is not fixed in Bible and a much older person can take a young virgin as wife ?

[islamirama]

Such issue is ultimately something to be decided upon by PARENTAL discretion and prerogative. It is NOT a social matter, it is a DOMESTIC matter! Parents should raise their offspring AS THEY SEE FIT. End of story.

I happen to agree with those "apostates" trying to change the law. We do need a law today because there's too many fools trying to abuse Islam's silence on the age limit. A father married off his 11yr old daughter to his 50 year old friend when the girl and her mother both protested. Apparently these loser "wali" do as they please and marry off their little girls to old perverts and miserably failing to act in the best interest of the girl.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

... A father married off his 11yr old daughter to his 50 year old friend when the girl and her mother both protested. .

If I remember correctly , father took a loan from his friend and unable to pay it and friend forced him to arrange the marriage. This goes against the teaching of Islam .

U can't force any girl in to marriage . Also Prophet pbuh said that means if u have ability , then allow him/her time to pay the loan. Everything went against Islam in this case .

As already stated , Muslims must act according to holy book.

[Karl]

Ok, so let's talk science. No 11 year old has fully undergone puberty. Understand! Menstruation does not qualify as passing puberty, especially as it can be a very early stage!

Speak for YOUR race, NOT mine!! :raging: The 11 year old involved is PREGNANT, therefore she is a young woman, not a mere "child". You said that "no" 11 year old has fully undergone puberty. So then, do you know every single living 11 yo on the planet to verify that blatant broadband statement? You make me laugh. How can you make a statement like that if you have not seen every 11 yo in existence on the planet? It's plain illogic to make such unfounded statements without PROOF first!! Secondly you are plain wrong. I told you about different hominid races before. I told you that my race is 100% fully developed by 12, and we are able to produce perfectly healthy offspring by age 9. Just because YOUR race is so inferior not to be able to do that is no reason for you to get jealous of our superiority! ;D

Just to clarify, there is not a single Christian who believe having sex with 11 year old girls is 'normal' or 'acceptable'.

"No" Christian in existence? there you go again! So what you have said to me is that you know every single living Christian on the planet? Are you sure that you don't think YOURSELF as God to know SO MUCH? LOL. You obviously don't know every single Mormon in Utah.:p

It isn't mentioned in scriptures because one would have thought having sex with children is pretty much off the cards without having to use sacred texts to convey that message- nothing wrong with a bit of common sense!!

Your argument is audacious, treacherous and presumptuous beyond belief. If it was such "common sense" then WHY did religion need to spoon feed with such fundamental commonsense not to steal or kill? I would have thought THAT would have been just plain common sense!! Yet in the 10 commandments it states some of the most common sense things such as "Thou shalt not steal". As Muslim Woman also stated, everything is permitted that is not forbidden in the Quran. "One would have thought"?, LOL! Yeah, says who?? and that "one" is YOU thinking that, NOT ME! And neither have you proof that your purported "one" are all Muslims and Christians thoughout history.

I am glad that the word "imposter" was one that got in the dictionary very quick.

[Karl]

I happen to agree with those "apostates" trying to change the law. We do need a law today because there's too many fools trying to abuse Islam's silence on the age limit. A father married off his 11yr old daughter to his 50 year old friend when the girl and her mother both protested. Apparently these loser "wali" do as they please and marry off their little girls to old perverts and miserably failing to act in the best interest of the girl.

"Age limit"???????????? As I just said to your friend Supreme, I am just glad that there is an entry in the English dictionary for "imposter". You definately are the very first "Muslim" I have ever encountered to speak in such communist/secularist parlance. And the sheer ARROGANCE of it all!! Please cite for me precisely in the Quran where it stipulates a minimum lunar age for marriage!!!!! Find me the number!!!!! :raging: One thing I utterly detest are busybody communists meddling in domestic family matters! They are the enemy of Islam :raging:

[islamirama]

You definately are the very first "Muslim" I have ever encountered to speak in such communist/secularist parlance. And the sheer ARROGANCE of it all!! One thing I utterly detest are busybody communists meddling in domestic family matters! They are the enemy of Islam :raging:

So i'm a communist/secularist and an enemy of islam now? and this coming from someone named "karl"? yea good one kid!

Please cite for me precisely in the Quran where it stipulates a minimum lunar age for marriage!!!!! Find me the number!!!!! :raging:

Please use your brain even if slightly! the scholars can make ruling against something even if there was no ruling before, if it is necessary. Stop blowing hot air and accusations of others being kuffar for a minute and use your freaking little noggin! maybe you'll find my answer in the last post then...

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

a reminder to all : please don't attack each other , it's not allowed in the forum . Mod , pl. remove all the off topic remarks. Thanks.

[★ηαѕιнα★]

Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

Yeah but women back then were matured at a young age. Not like now!
11 years...my little sister is 13 and still a baby!! OMG
And people please... as sis said lets just all get along.

[Uthman]

a reminder to all : please don't attack each other , it's not allowed in the forum

What the sister said. ^^

[Supreme]

Speak for YOUR race, NOT mine!! The 11 year old involved is PREGNANT, therefore she is a young woman, not a mere "child". You said that "no" 11 year old has fully undergone puberty. So then, do you know every single living 11 yo on the planet to verify that blatant broadband statement? You make me laugh. How can you make a statement like that if you have not seen every 11 yo in existence on the planet? It's plain illogic to make such unfounded statements without PROOF first!! Secondly you are plain wrong. I told you about different hominid races before. I told you that my race is 100% fully developed by 12, and we are able to produce perfectly healthy offspring by age 9. Just because YOUR race is so inferior not to be able to do that is no reason for you to get jealous of our superiority!

So you're a racist now as well as an activist of peadophiles? It just doesn't get any better! Before you go on about this nonsense about your race maturing before others, I can point out to you that other than skin tone and slight physical features, there is no difference between races- not in terms of height, intelligence or at what age is becomes acceptable to have sex at! But even if that were the case, even if children did mature sexually earlier, do their minds become perverted younger too? You have to think about the psychological development too.

"No" Christian in existence? there you go again! So what you have said to me is that you know every single living Christian on the planet? Are you sure that you don't think YOURSELF as God to know SO MUCH? LOL. You obviously don't know every single Mormon in Utah.

Yep. Being a Christian means you have to be moral to at least some degree. There is nothing moral about children having sex, thus no Christian would think it right. Also, Mormons aren't orthodox Christians; heck, I'm not sure they even qualify as Christians.

Your argument is audacious, treacherous and presumptuous beyond belief. If it was such "common sense" then WHY did religion need to spoon feed with such fundamental commonsense not to steal or kill? I would have thought THAT would have been just plain common sense!! Yet in the 10 commandments it states some of the most common sense things such as "Thou shalt not steal". As Muslim Woman also stated, everything is permitted that is not forbidden in the Quran. "One would have thought"?, LOL! Yeah, says who?? and that "one" is YOU thinking that, NOT ME! And neither have you proof that your purported "one" are all Muslims and Christians thoughout history.

...Well, I'd say that murder and theft were included because they were common and prevelant amongst the Jews than having sex with little girls!

[cat eyes]

when you reach puberty yes it dose mean you are ready for sex but it dose not mean you are mentally ready for marriage. 11year olds of today are totally different in the sense that they are not mentally mature! might be some are but not all

[Karl]

when you reach puberty yes it dose mean you are ready for sex but it dose not mean you are mentally ready for marriage

Who is "you" though? Maybe SOME are this way but it doesn't mean one is NOT mentally prepared either. My daughter was completely mentally prepared by age 8 to marry. So it just depends on the individual really, and also what sort of information the parents have also provided in advance of marriage.

11year olds of today are totally different in the sense that they are not mentally mature! might be some are but not all

You might see a lot of this today in the West than in the past, but this has been due to the new inane Western culture of molly coddling juvenilization of young people and the compulsory extended state education (indoctrination) system which has caused an alarming degree of holding back and immaturity in young people. So I do agree that it is not uncommon to encounter 11 year olds these days that seem to be more like 3 year olds than 11 year old youths. It's pitiful really.

[ardianto]

Ok, so let's talk science. No 11 year old has fully undergone puberty. Understand! Menstruation does not qualify as passing puberty, especially as it can be a very early stage!

11 years old girl is still a child, not yet a woman. Too young to marry, too young to has a baby.

[Karl]

So you're a racist now as well as an activist of peadophiles?

Since when did recognising race become "racism"?? Racism is discriminative. Recognising race itself is NOT discriminative. Drawing your long bow, as usual.

I'm and "activist of paedophiles"? For your information I do not even RECOGNISE this word "paedophilia'. The very concept of so-called "paedophilia" as something on it's own right is a newly founded secular one. "Paedophilia" is simply not conceptualised in Islam. And neither is this a word I conceptualize as well. THEREFORE HOW can I POSSIBLY be an "advocate" of "paedophilia" if I simply do not recognise the divisive secular word to BEGIN WITH? As far as I am concerned it is a word from the camp of pseudoscience, NOT Islam. And seeing pseudoscience is my enemy then too is my resistance of employing psycho babble terminology.

It just doesn't get any better! Before you go on about this nonsense about your race maturing before others

Nonsense? Really?? How do you know this if you haven't even SEEN me??? For you to claim your analysis and knowledge of me before you have even EXAMINED me is the most ludicrous kind of science I have ever heard of!

I can point out to you that other than skin tone and slight physical features, there is no difference between races- not in terms of height, intelligence or at what age is becomes acceptable to have sex at!

Thank you for the most preposterous statement I have heard of in all time!!! LOL.

"Slight" physical differences?? Certainly not the way I see it!! I can tell you right away that the physical differences between ME and a South East Asian, for example, are PROFOUND! For a start, comparing me to them is like comparing a Clydesdale horse to a Shetland pony or a white pointer shark to a dolphin. Teutonics do NOT have "slight" physical differnces in features to an Indian or Indonesian!! GET YOUR EYES CHECKED! The differences are WELL MARKED! And if you don't see that then my ability to observe difference is much more acute than your ability!

"Not is terms of height"?? LOL again. So a pygmy African or an Indonesian reaches the same height as a Norseman or a Zulu??? Ok well whatever you say, afterall you're the expert! Yes the joke doesn't get better!! I've fallen completely off my seat in laughter now. If you keep this going, I may die of laughter, so no doubt you will continue with this joke and then you can be rid of my existence forever!

"or at what age is becomes acceptable to have sex at!"

So also say the armies of anti Islamic enemies on youtube as well, so you are not alone. You have many allies! Your race is not ready for sexual interaction until the "Magic Age" of 18, therefore this explains further why you and I are of a completely different species. My species are able to indulge in full sexual intercourse at HALF that age. My daughter had healthy strong big babies since she was 9, and I have not detected even ONE thing to suggest that her having babies at 9 was a negative thing! I am a proud grandfather! What more could I want?:statisfie

But even if that were the case, even if children did mature sexually earlier, do their minds become perverted younger too? You have to think about the psychological development too.

Not an argument as far as I'm concerned. All mammals are born with the inherent psychological ability to express and appreciate sexual play from a very early age. Early sexual play is seen in dolphins, bonobo monkeys (to name a tiny few species it's been documented to have been prevalent with), and it is also a very natural, normal and healthy thing for MY hominid species as well. So NEVER you dare try and dictate to MY soecies what is "good" or "bad" for us, because you know what? I am never going to take one scrap of notice in what you say!

What do you also mean by "perverted"? No doubt we have completely different definitions of what that actually IS! I might regard two old men together in bed or adultery as "perversion" but don't regard the wholesomeness and sanctity of marriage as "perverted"! But no doubt it's probably the complete opposite for you. lol

So yes, the absurdity of all this just doesn't get any better! Thanks for your comedy!

And thanks for yours. As I said, you may be lucky to kill me from laughing at your brazen absurdities.

Yep. Being a Christian means you have to be moral to at least some degree.

It depends how one draws their own moral conclusions. That is your own subjective evaluation that early marriage is inherently "immoral', but Not Islam, and Not Christianity! You find me the unequivocal texts in either Islam OR Christianity, because I have been trying to hunt high and low for it and still haven't found it!

There is nothing moral about children having sex

Says who in particular??? Maybe Christianity does NOT state this. Maybe Christianity has not stated outright that "child sex is moral" BUT it has NOT also stated that "child" sex is IMmoral either!!

thus no Christian would think it right.

Wrong again. There are MANY Christians who regard child sexual interaction as a perfectly permissible thing provided that it is within the context of MARRIAGE. You now gonna start claiming now that they are all false Christians?? Right??

Also, Mormons aren't orthodox Christians; heck, I'm not sure they even qualify as Christians.

There you go again with more antagonizing, disrespectful and highly offensive insults towards any Christian denomination that doesn't happen to accord to your ways of thinking. Disgusting.

...Well, I'd say that murder and theft were included because they were common and prevelant amongst the Jews than having sex with little girls!

Ummm, early sexual relations was very very usual back in the times when the torah, bible and Quran were written. You need to relook at your history books. Be warned though, you might have a complete mental breakdown and be turned into a neurotic basket case if you study your history thoroughly enough. lol.

[Karl]

11 years old girl is still a child, not yet a woman. Too young to marry, too young to has a baby.

How DARE you imply that GENERICALLY! Speak for your OWN kind, NOT mine!! 11 year olds of MY race are NOT mere "children", we are YOUTHS on the cusp of fully fledged adulthood! We are NOT "too young" to marry and we are NOT too young to have babies! It utterly amazes me why so many Muslims seem to be now siding with the likes of "Supreme" and the anti Islamic infidels who attack Islam over this issue. Don't you realise that all you are doing is jumping ship to their side? For your information, Islam does NOT deem it "too early" to marry at that age! Where in the quran does it say that marrying at 11 is "too young"? Why do you also insult the prophet (pbuh) who married Aisha at 6? You should know that you offend him! :raging::raging::raging::raging::raging:

Your statements are highly anti Islamic in sentiment.

[ardianto]

How DARE you imply that GENERICALLY! Speak for your OWN kind, NOT mine!! 11 year olds of MY race are NOT mere "children", we are YOUTHS on the cusp of fully fledged adulthood! We are NOT "too young" to marry and we are NOT too young to have babies! It utterly amazes me why so many Muslims seem to be now siding with the likes of "Supreme" and the anti Islamic infidels who attack Islam over this issue. Don't you realise that all you are doing is jumping ship to their side? For your information, Islam does NOT deem it "too early" to marry at that age! Where in the quran does it say that marrying at 11 is "too young"? Why do you also insult the prophet (pbuh) who married Aisha at 6? You should know that you offend him! :raging::raging::raging::raging::raging:

Your statements are highly anti Islamic in sentiment.

I have read again my statement dozens times, and I did not see any word that insult Rasulullah (saw). Also, as a Muslim I will not make an anti-Islam statement.

:)

[Karl]

So i'm a communist/secularist and an enemy of islam now?

Yes, I consider you an enemy of Islam, and you and the likes of Supreme will always be my most hated enemy until the bitter end. You and him are not alone though. There are many enemies of Islam and this includes millions of them who refer to themselves as "Muslim". These include not only apostates, but armies of imposters on the internet posing as "Muslims" trying to get inside Islam to tear it down by process of attrition, rather than trying to destroy it up front and head on.

and this coming from someone named "karl"? yea good one kid!

Yes I am a convert, I don't mind admiting that. I converted because my wife bought me to the right way of Allah. Just because I am a convert doesn't automatically give you the position of being able to claim me of being the pot calling kettle black. Not on one occasion have I said anything unequivocally against quranic teachings. I am fiercely against Islam being amended by extraneous insidious secular ideology, and i will resist it with whatever it takes.

Please use your brain even if slightly! the scholars can make ruling against something even if there was no ruling before, if it is necessary.

Nonsense. Imposing something that is not forbidden in the quran is NOT "scholarship", it is outright APOSTASY and HERESY. Furthermore, who is to say if something is "necessary" or not? It's purely a subjective call, and your definition of "necessary" is completely different to what many other Muslims would deem necessary. It is unIslamic to impose laws that are not written into the Islamic sources! According to you, the "scholars" when they just so happen to feel that it is "necessary" can conveniently change Halal to Haram and Haram to Halal. LOL. Furthermore, regarding this "age of marriage" rubbish that secularists instigated and that you think is the "be all and end all" is NOT supported by the reputable and authentic Islamic scholars!! Halal can NOT be changed to Haram!!! Trying to claim so is the utmost heresy!!

[Karl]

I have read again my statement dozens times, and I did not see any word that insult Rasulullah (saw). Also, as a Muslim I will not make an anti-Islam statement.

:)

It's your broad generic statements that anger me and offend the prophet (pbuh). You DO offend prophet Muhammed (phuh). Why? Want me to spell it out for you? Ok well he married Aisha at 6 and consumated marriage when she was 9. And then you have now dictated arrogantly here that "an" 11 year old is "just a child", "not a woman", "too young too marry". Go figure why your remarks are highly offensive! SURELY you must realise that your statements are highly provocational and offensive?

If you said instead something like "my own 11 year old is too young to marry" then it wouldnt be so bad, but when you generically claim that "all" 11 year olds across the board "are too young to marry", then this is a highly antagonistic statement to make!

[Karl]

Yeah but women back then were matured at a young age. Not like now!
11 years...my little sister is 13 and still a baby!! OMG
And people please... as sis said lets just all get along.

To begin with, you failed to note my important point that under Islam the only requirement before sexual or erotic relationships is MARRIAGE! Age per se is completely irrelevant!

"my little sister is 13 and still a baby!!"

I am so sorry to hear that she has such a chronic condition. I must emphasis though, it is not compulsory to get married if one doesn want to. So your sister who is in napkins at 13 can stay with a pacifier in her mouth until she is 50 or all her life if she wants. So no problem right? Nonetheless, it is NOT forbidden under Islam for a "baby" to get married. Also be careful not to confuse sexual intercourse (penile to vaginal contact) with erotic and sensual love-- the two are NOT the same and one. Under Islam, it is generally recommended that sexual intercourse should not take place until AFTER menses. So any of those here who seem to think that I am advocating full sexual intercouse before menses, then let me remind you AGAIN, that I do not advocate that full sexual intercouse takes place until after MENSES. This is because of potential physical harm done if the female is too underdeveloped. BUT I would however emphasis that it is completely irrelevant at what age the sensual and erotic sides of love making between husband and wife occur. This is because there is scientifically no risk of physical harm being caused by erotic/sensual "outercourse" or "foreplay" as it's sometimes called.

[cat eyes]

Who is "you" though? Maybe SOME are this way but it doesn't mean one is NOT mentally prepared either. My daughter was completely mentally prepared by age 8 to marry.

your daughter got married at age 8? if you dont mind me asking why you married her so young? and how she will be able to go to school when she starts having kids??:hmm:

[Uthman]

Let's all tone it down a notch please. Brother Karl, you're welcome to make your points but please stop calling Muslim members enemies of Islam and likening them to apostates. Thanks. :)

[Karl]

your daughter got married at age 8? if you dont mind me asking why you married her so young?

It's an old familily tradition that goes back centuries, and I will NOT change that tradition just to try and appease my anti-Islamic enemies. I married her off at that age because I wanted her married off before she reached puberty. I don't want her still around the house at 10. Also a friend of mine wanted to marry her, and furthermore she was enthusiastic about it as well. So no problem. It's a very successful marriage and she is now 10 with a big strong healthy 1 year old son:statisfie

and how she will be able to go to school when she starts having kids??:hmm:

She doesn't NEED to go to school. Her husband is the provider. And I don't believe in female schooling anyway. I believe the education place for her is in the HOME, learning how to provide the skills to raise her offspring, to learn domestic sciences and keep the household running properly.

[Karl]

Let's all tone it down a notch please. Brother Karl, you're welcome to make your points but please stop calling Muslim members enemies of Islam and likening them to apostates. Thanks. :)

Sorry Brother Uthmān, I will try and bring it down a bit. Please note though that I did not actually declare him an apostate, I merely said I consider him as that after he asked me if I thought that. I think there is quite a difference declaring someone as something and merely regarding them as something. Also I would have thought that making roundabout defacto attacks against the prophet (pbuh) and all things Halal would qualify as "anti-Islamic" statements to make. He also offends the Islamic wholesome clean sanctity of marriage by referring to those such as my son in law as "perverts". So I would hope you would understand that I find that to be slanderous and highly offensive to say the least, and I am also astonished why people are allowed to post offensive remarks like that here, especially the ones who have themselves registered as Muslims. They should know better not to speak in that manner. I would hope that you can empathise with my anger over having my son in law called a "pervert", especially by a Muslim of all people; yet there is nothing whatsoever "perverted" at all about it. My daughter's marriage is completely HALAL. It is 100% sanctified under Islam and it highly disappoints me when I see the occasional Muslim uttering the very same secular catch cries and bigotries uttered by the atheists and socialistsimsad

Anyway, I will try more to keep my anger towards my enemies down and keep it more civil.

[★ηαѕιнα★]

To begin with, you failed to note my important point that under Islam the only requirement before sexual or erotic relationships is MARRIAGE! Age per se is completely irrelevant!

"my little sister is 13 and still a baby!!"

I am so sorry to hear that she has such a chronic condition. I must emphasis though, it is not compulsory to get married if one doesn want to. So your sister who is in napkins at 13 can stay with a pacifier in her mouth until she is 50 or all her life if she wants. So no problem right? Nonetheless, it is NOT forbidden under Islam for a "baby" to get married. Also be careful not to confuse sexual intercourse (penile to vaginal contact) with erotic and sensual love-- the two are NOT the same and one. Under Islam, it is generally recommended that sexual intercourse should not take place until AFTER menses. So any of those here who seem to think that I am advocating full sexual intercouse before menses, then let me remind you AGAIN, that I do not advocate that full sexual intercouse takes place until after MENSES. This is because of potential physical harm done if the female is too underdeveloped. BUT I would however emphasis that it is completely irrelevant at what age the sensual and erotic sides of love making between husband and wife occur. This is because there is scientifically no risk of physical harm being caused by erotic/sensual "outercourse" or "foreplay" as it's sometimes called.

Alhamdoellilah brother I would actually have red that post if it didnt start with
"I am so sorry to hear that she has such a chronic condition."
A very unpleasant way of posting you have alhamdoellilah.
Anyway I will remove myself from this discussion inshallah.

[cat eyes]

islam has been misunderstood because of the assholes who are flashing young little half naked 8year old women is white little skimpy wedding dresses and packed full of make up, tell me is this islam???

Brother karl i have nothing against the fact you married your daughter at that age but the fact that what vids my brother has been watching for his reason that he hates islam :cry:

i wont say anything else more on this topic...:cry:

[Muslim Woman]

Salam/Peace 11 yr old Brit girl gives birth to illegal child and Muslims participants are engaged in a heated debate here ? What's the use of the thread ? Should not it be closed now ?

['Abd Al-Maajid]

^ I was going to tell this too...The girl gave birth to a child before marriage and that's it!!!! There's no point in debating on girls' age...do hell with the age if she has committed zina...

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

^ do hell with the age if she has committed zina...

yes , if a 20 + or 30 + gives birth of a baby outside marriage , it's a major sin . If a 11 yrs old becomes mom through a valid process ( not a forced marriage , no one should object . Early marriage is not a must neither it's haram .And Allah knows Best.

[tetsujin]

I don't wish to be a part of this conversation but I do want to clarify something.

For your information I do not even RECOGNISE this word "paedophilia'. The very concept of so-called "paedophilia" as something on it's own right is a newly founded secular one. "Paedophilia" is simply not conceptualised in Islam.

Paedophilia as a term or concept exists. Defined by the World Health Organization as "A sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."

Whether or not it is ethical to engage in sexual acts with children or whether you are offended by the implication that the prophet was a paedophile, is irrelevant. You're free to make your own judgments on morality.

Many concepts and theories are not covered in the Quran. That does not negate their existence.

[revert2007]

Mary was pregnant at 11 and had Jesus at 12. In Islam the only requirement is marriage before sex so I don't know why you are focused on how old someone is. Must be Apostates or something.

PLease do not compare that girl with Marry R.A.Marry R.A is the most innocent and honorable woman described in quran and how can u compare this girl to Marry R.A.Marry r.a had a miraculous birth with Allah's will and she has no power to avoide it.but this girl has the free will to avoide things if parents take care of their children well.

when someone have daugther,your eyes must be on here 24/7 and watch with whom she is talking and with whom she is being friend with.usually the most cases of rape is done by people that the victim knows and recognise.


this is what will happen if people do not follow teaching of true religion and allows free mixing among the sexes.

May Allah protect ourselves and our family from this kind of fitnah.ameen

[islamirama]

islam has been misunderstood because of the assholes who are flashing young little half naked 8year old women is white little skimpy wedding dresses and packed full of make up, tell me is this islam???

Exactly! What we have here is a a classic case of a convert gone extremist in his zealous for Islam. When a person converts to Islam, there are three paths go afterwards. One path is to become muslim but still live their kuffar way of life and not really make any changes in their lives. Second way is to mingle with Muslims and learn from them and become a regular practicing muslim. third way, is the over zealous, tunnel vision who thinks what they believe is the right Islam and everyone else is an apostate or enemy of Islam. Karl might want to visit www.aussiemuslims.com forum, he'll fit right in with those demented tunnel vision "salafis"...

[Grofica]

I dont know i am sort of against having kids that young married or not... at that age a gal just doesnt know enough. there was a girl i went to school with and she had a boy when she was 12... granted i could write A LOT of adjectives about her but anyway...

she is a little warped now and i think it sort of ruined her... she still talks and acts like a 12 year old she is forever stunted by it...

[revert2007]

How DARE you imply that GENERICALLY! Speak for your OWN kind, NOT mine!! 11 year olds of MY race are NOT mere "children", we are YOUTHS on the cusp of fully fledged adulthood! We are NOT "too young" to marry and we are NOT too young to have babies! It utterly amazes me why so many Muslims seem to be now siding with the likes of "Supreme" and the anti Islamic infidels who attack Islam over this issue. Don't you realise that all you are doing is jumping ship to their side? For your information, Islam does NOT deem it "too early" to marry at that age! Where in the quran does it say that marrying at 11 is "too young"? Why do you also insult the prophet (pbuh) who married Aisha at 6? You should know that you offend him! :raging::raging::raging::raging::raging:

Your statements are highly anti Islamic in sentiment.

I wish non Muslims will read this.If it is ok for someone who is 11 years old in year 2010 to get married and have babies...it is also ok for Aisha r.a to get married at the age of nine 1430 years ago.

in Islam once a girl get puberty,she is considered an adult and her body is well prepared for motherhood.

if a gilr who is 17 yet reached puberty,she is still considered as a child and not as an adult.

Subahana Allah..this is to prove to disbelievers that marriage between Aishah r.a and Muahmmad pbuh was natural and ok and permissible by The Creator.and who gave the rights to disbelievers to judge Muhammad pbuh? adn call him with some names..?

I know what am saying si not related to above thread but this is an eye opener for all disbeleivers before they accuse of beloved prohet muhammad pbuh.

Allah knows the best.

[MMohammed]

When its said Karl that her mother was very surprised to know this, don't you think its outside a marriage even if she marry at 11?
May Allah prevent us from Evil.Astaghfirullah.
Mohammed.

[Karl]

Salam/Peace 11 yr old Brit girl gives birth to illegal child and Muslims participants are engaged in a heated debate here ? What's the use of the thread ? Should not it be closed now ?

Sister, Trolls like to open these kind of threads as a roundabout method of attackimg Islam. Although Islam is opposed to fornication, it is nonetheless IRRELEVANT what lunar age the young lady is. Notice that the creator of this thread had made no real attack on the fornication aspect of the case, but has instead made the attack purely of the basis of her NUMERICAL AGE. This kind of attack makes no sense coming from a "Muslim". Yes the sex out of wedlock from an Islamic point of view is zina, but hey, if zina is to be attacked then half the women of Britain are to blame for this. Then again, they are Brits, not Muslims, so even the zina thing is completely irrelevant as well. I completely agree with you that no Muslim should be putting up such threads.

[islamirama]

Sister, Trolls like to open these kind of threads as a roundabout method of attackimg Islam.
.

So I'm a troll now who likes to attack Islam indirectly? I've gotten infractions and bans for just arguing let alone calling others kuffars, apostates, trolls and enemies of islam, what side of mgmt behind are you kissing so much that they letting you rant on forever?

btw, can you give your 8yr old in marriage to me? You got me all interested in marrying your grown up adult daughter now.

[Karl]

I don't wish to be a part of this conversation but I do want to clarify something.



Paedophilia as a term or concept exists. Defined by the World Health Organization as "A sexual preference for children, boys or girls or both, usually of prepubertal or early pubertal age."

Whether or not it is ethical to engage in sexual acts with children or whether you are offended by the implication that the prophet was a paedophile, is irrelevant. You're free to make your own judgments on morality.

Many concepts and theories are not covered in the Quran. That does not negate their existence.

But I do not recognise non Islamic organizations, especially those from the West or those instigated by the West. I do not recognise outfits such as the World Health Organization, or the United Nations and its many other global Marxist affiliates such as UNESCO, UNICEF etc etc. They are Western secular organizations that I simply ignore and am an enemy of. Furthermore, I notice that this "World Health Organization" has attempted to expand the definition of so-called "paedophilia" to include those in early pubertal stage as well! LOL. This is treachery at its worst and even conflicts with the secularists' original clinical definition of "paedophilia" which states that it must be strictly PREpubescent, not youth as well! The perfectly normal attraction to a 9 or 10 year old pubescent youth is strictly speaking "hebephilia", not "paedophilia". It's become so ludicrous these days that I have encountered those who refer to 40 year olds who court 20 year olds as "paedophiles". The word has become so meaningless at the hands of the moronic Western masses, and that is another reason why it is a word I choose not to employ. Besides, even if the word WAS accurately used in its original definition, it seems to me to be a completely pointless to even clinically profile "paedophilia" in the FIRST place. It's as pointless and ridiculous as making a clinical word to describe someone who is attracted to someone else with certain colour hair or eyes.

[Karl]

Exactly! What we have here is a a classic case of a convert gone extremist in his zealous for Islam. When a person converts to Islam, there are three paths go afterwards. One path is to become muslim but still live their kuffar way of life and not really make any changes in their lives. Second way is to mingle with Muslims and learn from them and become a regular practicing muslim. third way, is the over zealous, tunnel vision who thinks what they believe is the right Islam and everyone else is an apostate or enemy of Islam. Karl might want to visit www.aussiemuslims.com forum, he'll fit right in with those demented tunnel vision "salafis"...

I'm an "extremist"??? LOL. Extremists are terrorists who blow up trains and buildings, but if you think that me following the sunnah is "extremist" then you have a pretty strange definition of it. The Zionist kuffars label anyone who is orthodox Muslims as "extremists" and kuffar apostates as "moderate Muslims". That's how their media propaganda machine labels people. Basically if any Muslim does not cooperate with Western newly founded moralities, ideologies, politics etc then they are labelled "extremists". They slander Muslim fundamentalists as "extremists". That's how dirty these Western Zionists play.

[Grofica]

With all this fighting in here over age cant everyone agree that:

what it means to be 11 now is NOTHING like it was to be 11 in years before us. especially in the west. 11 year old NOW are kids...

BEFORE: kids were taught how to be adult.... young women were taught how to cook and clean and take care of the house and care for children and the importance of not spending too much money and a million other tasks that i probably dont even know at well... older

NOW: kids scream at their mom, shot people, play psp, and well thats about it...

Number age matters NOW because we dont have young adults we have a bunch of bad *** kids that need a spanking...

heck we have 18 -19 year old KIDS that dont even know how to clean their room or cook... and the microwave doesnt count...

shoot im uhmmm old and the only thing i know how to cook is how what my mother in law taught me cause my mother (i grew up in the west) cooked by calling dominoes or pizza hut or anything else that delivered....

age isnt the problem its the problem with how 99.9% of KIDS are at that age in this TIME....

[Karl]

With all this fighting in here over age cant everyone agree that:

what it means to be 11 now is NOTHING like it was to be 11 in years before us. especially in the west. 11 year old NOW are kids...

BEFORE: kids were taught how to be adult.... young women were taught how to cook and clean and take care of the house and care for children and the importance of not spending too much money and a million other tasks that i probably dont even know at well... older

NOW: kids scream at their mom, shot people, play psp, and well thats about it...

Number age matters NOW because we dont have young adults we have a bunch of bad *** kids that need a spanking...

heck we have 18 -19 year old KIDS that dont even know how to clean their room or cook... and the microwave doesnt count...

shoot im uhmmm old and the only thing i know how to cook is how what my mother in law taught me cause my mother (i grew up in the west) cooked by calling dominoes or pizza hut or anything else that delivered....

age isnt the problem its the problem with how 99.9% of KIDS are at that age in this TIME....

At the end of the day, all this sort of matter should be completely down to parental prerogative and discretion. It is a DOMESTIC matter, NOT a SOCIAL matter! I don't know how many times I have had to say this: Parents should raise their OWN offspring as they see fit. Therefore this debate is completely IRRELEVANT anyway! You can use YOUR discretion what "age" you think YOUR offpring can marry, and I shall do the same! How I raise my offspring and when they marry is no one's business except MINE. And when YOUR sons or daughters marry is also not one scrap of MY business as well. To hell with busybody socialists! :raging::raging:They need to be fiercely defied and FAUGHT at all cost!!! :raging:

[MMohammed]

You didnt answer my post, Karl.
Children should be raised according to the principles of Islam.Don't make or alter the teachings of Rasulallah(S.A).Before waging a verbal war against others, see what are you saying.Don't preach wrong Islam.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

can you give your 8yr old in marriage to me? You got me all interested in marrying your grown up adult daughter now.

it's not a must for any parent to arrange marriage of their 8 yrs old girl with a stranger . I don't agree with br Karl's all comments about u but I find it strange that you are giving him such a proposal specially when you are against young marriage.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

^plan a rendezvous then...;D

[Karl]

You didnt answer my post, Karl.
Children should be raised according to the principles of Islam.Don't make or alter the teachings of Rasulallah(S.A).Before waging a verbal war against others, see what are you saying.Don't preach wrong Islam.

I agree with you, brother. I am sorry if I said any misleading or misunderstood statements. MUSLIM parents should raise their offspring according to the principles of Islam. COMPLETELY AGREE.:statisfie

But we must remember though that not everyone is a Muslim, so that was what I was trying to point out. What I meant was that parents should raise their own offspring according to what religion (or irreligion) they subscribe to. Naturally a Christian will raise their offspring as Christians, Hindus as Hindus, Muslims and Muslims, Sikhs as Sikhs, atheists as atheists, communists as communists etc etc. I am a Muslim so I therefore will raise my own offspring by the ways of Islam.:cresentbl