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Darth Ultor
03-14-2010, 04:10 AM
Do you support mercy killings? Say you're a doctor, and you have a patient dying from a terrible cancer, and there is no way to save that person's life. If the patient consents will you condone a doctor giving him or her something that will ease their passing?

Here is another scenario. You're a soldier, and after an ambush, one of your fellow men got shot but is still alive, mortally wounded, but alive. You know that the soldier will die anyway, and if he wants you to, would you help him die quickly?

On a religious perspective, I think it would be considered murder, but in the eyes of God, would it be as bad as a normal murder?

I support it for the fact that I have cancer and also lost several friends to it. Why did they have to suffer? It is a terrible thing. I believe if the person suffering asks for it, it should be granted to them. It's not fair that good men and women have to suffer so badly, yet piece of **** child killers are simply put to sleep.
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Woodrow
03-14-2010, 05:12 AM
Peace Boaz,

I see the paradox in that the scum of the earth are released from their earthly pains through execution for their crimes and the pious who have done no wrong have to suffer for years during the course of a painful terminal disease, injury, or genetic fault.

It does not seem fair and it seems it would be more fitting that criminals should be forced to live to an old age without being relieved of the burdens of life.

I can only speak for myself. I do not consider myself a stoic person, but I am a person who has lived a considerable time with chronic excruciating pain as a very close companion. To be honest I do desire the relief of the grave, but I would never request euthanasia nor seek suicide. I see death as being a reward I am not yet worthy of and my purpose here not yet ended. I stopped taking all pain killers and sedatives a few years back and now see my pain as a gift and one of my reasons for living. This pain has given me the incentive to continue forward in a direction I would have feared to travel. I see it as a gift as I know that no human or physical event can bring me any more pain then I now face daily. I live a life completely free of fear, thanks to pain.

So my opinion is euthanasia/mercy killings are not an option permitted to us humans. It is murder and deprives the person of discovering the gift they have been given.
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theblackcloud
03-14-2010, 05:16 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace Boaz,

I see the paradox in that the scum of the earth are released from their earthly pains through execution for their crimes and the pious who have done no wrong have to suffer for years during the course of a painful terminal disease, injury, or genetic fault.

It does not seem fair and it seems it would be more fitting that criminals should be forced to live to an old age without being relieved of the burdens of life.

I can only speak for myself. I do not consider myself a stoic person, but I am a person who has lived a considerable time with chronic excruciating pain as a very close companion. To be honest I do desire the relief of the grave, but I would never request euthanasia nor seek suicide. I see death as being a reward I am not yet worthy of and my purpose here not yet ended. I stopped taking all pain killers and sedatives a few years back and now see my pain as a gift and one of my reasons for living. This pain has given me the incentive to continue forward in a direction I would have feared to travel. I see it as a gift as I know that no human or physical event can bring me any more pain then I now face daily. I live a life completely free of fear, thanks to pain.

So my opinion is euthanasia/mercy killings are not an option permitted to us humans. It is murder and deprives the person of discovering the gift they have been given.
Although, I believe animals are a different exception. I can't stand to see an animal suffer. I believe it's God's place to decide when humans will be taken off this earth plane.

May I ask, why you are in so much pain?
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Woodrow
03-14-2010, 05:21 AM
Originally Posted by blackcloud
Although, I believe animals are a different exception. I can't stand to see an animal suffer. I believe it's God's place to decide when humans will be taken off this earth plane.

May I ask, why you are in so much pain?
I am paying the price of many years of cigarette smoking before I reverted to Islam and considerable arthritic pains resulting from multiple fractures I received in 1963.
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theblackcloud
03-14-2010, 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I am paying the price of many years of cigarette smoking before I reverted to Islam and considerable arthritic pains resulting from multiple fractures I received in 1963.
I try to tell my father to quit smoking, it's so bad for your health and well being. But he doesn't listen.

You can take multiple medications for your bone fractures and arthritic mishaps. Or, perhaps, religious reasons prohibit you from doing so? My Iraqi room mate refused to take painkillers after knee surgery because he stated that painkillers "cloud the mind".
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Woodrow
03-14-2010, 05:39 AM
Originally Posted by blackcloud
I try to tell my father to quit smoking, it's so bad for your health and well being. But he doesn't listen.

You can take multiple medications for your bone fractures and arthritic mishaps. Or, perhaps, religious reasons prohibit you from doing so? My Iraqi room mate refused to take painkillers after knee surgery because he stated that painkillers "cloud the mind".
I stopped taking all pain killers and sedatives when I reverted. I prefer having a clear mind and do not like the the loss of thinking ability it cost me to be pain free when I was on pain killers.

While most Scholars tend to say pain killers may be used. I personally will not use them, as I have learned to cope with the pain and Besides at my age I have too few living brain cells remaining and can't afford to let any of the remaining ones to be numbed. I already have enough trouble remembering where I live, I can't afford to risk forgetting the little I can still remember.
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>Taalib<
03-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Whatever Suffering a Believer goes through in this life either wipes away his/her sins or is for elevation of a persons stage in the hereafter. So in actual fact he is benefitting so it is downright stupidity to terminate this rewards which he is reaping.
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theblackcloud
03-14-2010, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by >Taalib<
Whatever Suffering a Believer goes through in this life either wipes away his/her sins or is for elevation of a persons stage in the hereafter. So in actual fact he is benefitting so it is downright stupidity to terminate this rewards which he is reaping.
I respect your views, they are quite admiral, if I may say so myself.

However, that is your own personal view on suffering, but what I find strange is that about half of the Muslims I have met would agree with you, the other half would not.

So, it seems there is not a harmonious consensus on this subject within the Muslim community currently.
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theblackcloud
03-14-2010, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
I stopped taking all pain killers and sedatives when I reverted. I prefer having a clear mind and do not like the the loss of thinking ability it cost me to be pain free when I was on pain killers.

While most Scholars tend to say pain killers may be used. I personally will not use them, as I have learned to cope with the pain and Besides at my age I have too few living brain cells remaining and can't afford to let any of the remaining ones to be numbed. I already have enough trouble remembering where I live, I can't afford to risk forgetting the little I can still remember.
I like to view drugs and alcohol as something that restrains valid judgment on our behalf and leads us to wrong decisions in our life. Whatever the opinion of some, or most, scholars might be, I think no human's life is worth living if they are subject to swallowing down pills like they are mentos for the sake of relieving pain, meanwhile they are high as a kite. It's not worth it, to me.

I'm still young, and it's hard for me to even remember what happened last month, let alone years ago. It's a product of our get up and go times, and no I do not like it. I understand your place when it comes to not wanting to lose your memory, and your sanity. But if there's anything you should always be able to remember, it's that, hopefully you can say, you had a good, productive, positive life and did what your creator put you on the Earth to accomplish.
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جوري
03-14-2010, 11:54 PM
Originally Posted by blackcloud
I respect your views, they are quite admiral, if I may say so myself.

However, that is your own personal view on suffering, but what I find strange is that about half of the Muslims I have met would agree with you, the other half would not.

So, it seems there is not a harmonious consensus on this subject within the Muslim community currently.
It isn't 'Haraam' forbidden to take pain medications.. many people prefer to do without however.. If you are in the OR about to under-go surgery, you'll obviously need anesthesia and pain relief post op.. unfortunately many people become addicted because they simply don't know how to say when..

If the pain is a 10/10 then yes by all means, but if it is a 6~7 and you can withstand it, then why not? Every medication isn't without side effects, the longer you are on them, the worse you'll feel and later down the line it might lead to serious addiction.

People have different threshold for pain, I personally think three days post op should be the max. number of days for pain relief, we obviously all know that pain goes on for months and months for some people..
I don't like the way some doctors handle their prescription pads or the way some pts. skulk, malinger and abuse it.. both parties suffer down the line.. one risks their license and the other risks his/her health, sanity and well-being.. of course for some that comes with some workers comp. and well-fare and days off work
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theblackcloud
03-15-2010, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
It isn't 'Haraam' forbidden to take pain medications.. many people prefer to do without however.. If you are in the OR about to under-go surgery, you'll obviously need anesthesia and pain relief post op.. unfortunately many people become addicted because they simply don't know how to say when..

If the pain is a 10/10 then yes by all means, but if it is a 6~7 and you can withstand it, then why not? Every medication isn't without side effects, the longer you are on them, the worse you'll feel and later down the line it might lead to serious addiction.

People have different threshold for pain, I personally think three days post op should be the max. number of days for pain relief, we obviously all know that pain goes on for months and months for some people..
I don't like the way some doctors handle their prescription pads or the way some pts. skulk, malinger and abuse it.. both parties suffer down the line.. one risks their license and the other risks his/her health, sanity and well-being.. of course for some that comes with some workers comp. and well-fare and days off work
Indeed. Definitely, your post reminds me that the American health care system must be overhauled and reformed, and fast. Doctors often give out unneeded prescription medication due to the catch 22, profit motive.
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 12:59 AM
^ I support single payor public health care system with modifications for solving the problem of long wait lists.
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Ishaaq
03-15-2010, 01:05 AM
Euthanasia (if its voluntary) is a form of suicide strictly forbidden in our religion.

This is perfectly illustrated by the story of a man who was part of the Prophet's :saws: army. This man was a brave fighter, who single-handedly fought against the disbelieving forces and was considered very brave. However, the Prophet :saws: mentioned that this individual will be the hell. This prophecy startled and amazed the Prophet's Companions who were present. They wandered, how can such a brave and courageous man upon the battlefield, fighting for Islaam, be in the hellfire.

So shortly thereafter this individual became mortally wounded, and was in a great deal of pain. He took his sword, placed it in the ground upward, and fell upon it, killing himself, in order to ease his pain and misery. A companion witnessed this and proclaimed, surely the Messenger of Allaah :saws: speaks the truth!

So this individual considered a form of suicide, in order to end his pain and physical suffering of the wounds he incurred while fighting Jihaad. Yet the Messenger of Allaah :saws: said he is in the hell, so this shows how grave a matter euthanasia is, and how it is totally rejected by our Religion.
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theblackcloud
03-15-2010, 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
^ I support single payor public health care system with modifications for solving the problem of long wait lists.
Would your program be solely designed for solving the problem of long waiting lists and lines? That is a problem, but there are many other looming sores that need to be healed. The whole system must be overhauled.

I, for one, support a database health care system where everyone can be insured, provided they are a legal citizen and have a valid citizenship, ID and social security number. A health care card with a photo ID would be issued as well, like the Canadian health care system.[1]
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by blackcloud
Would your program be solely designed for solving the problem of long waiting lists and lines? That is a problem, but there are many other looming sores that need to be healed. The whole system must be overhauled.

I, for one, support a database health care system where everyone can be insured, provided they are a legal citizen and have a valid citizenship, ID and social security number. A health care card with a photo ID would be issued as well, like the Canadian health care system.[1]
Well since I am Canadian, I was referring to that problem within my own context. I had to wait 4 weeks to get a CT scan appointment. But allhamdulillah, other than that I do not need to fight my demons for expecting to get a $1500 bill after going to the ER.
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Muslim Woman
03-15-2010, 01:13 AM
Salaam/Peace


Originally Posted by Boaz
Do you support mercy killings?
No. It's not the teaching of Quran and hadith.



Say you're a doctor, and you have a patient dying from a terrible cancer, and there is no way to save that person's life.

Docotor's duty is to save life , not to kill.


would you help him die quickly?
No

On a religious perspective, I think it would be considered murder, but in the eyes of God, would it be as bad as a normal murder?
In my holy book , there is no verse that says to help a sick person to die quickly. Maximum we are allowed to pray like this : O God , as long as life is beneficial for me , let me live; when it is better for me to die , then bless me with death.

And God knows Best.
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waqas maqsood
03-15-2010, 01:15 AM
^^ spot on

:D
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/Peace




No. It's not the teaching of Quran and hadith.






Docotor's duty is to save life , not to kill.




No



In my holy book , there is no verse that says to help a sick person to die quickly. Maximum we are allowed to pray like this : O God , as long as life is beneficial for me , let me live; when it is better for me to die , then bless me with death.

And God knows Best.
Doctor's duty is to save life but not in a paternalistic manner. Gone are the days when doctors could act as father figures for patients. Today doctors save lives by taking into account the views and beliefs of patient. Patient autonomy is an important principle and a doctor cant let his responsibility of beneficence overtake his responsibility to respect the patients which is done by allowing the capable patient to make decisions for his or herself.
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theblackcloud
03-15-2010, 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Well since I am Canadian, I was referring to that problem within my own context. I had to wait 4 weeks to get a CT scan appointment. But allhamdulillah, other than that I do not need to fight my demons for expecting to get a $1500 bill after going to the ER.
I am Canadian as well, and I think our medical system is great. My friend, who came from Iraq (we are both students), he got knee surgery he always needed ever since he was a kid. Nothing big, just some cartilage that was damaged. He said the doctors treated him well and he hopes his country gets a similar system one day. I have always heard positive things about our health care system.

I do feel sorry for Americans who can't even pay for food to put on the table for their kids, let alone worry about paying for that tonsil surgery they got last week.
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 01:20 AM
Originally Posted by blackcloud
I am Canadian as well, and I think our medical system is great. My friend, who came from Iraq (we are both students), he got knee surgery he always needed ever since he was a kid. Nothing big, just some cartilage that was damaged. He said the doctors treated him well and he hopes his country gets a similar system one day. I have always heard positive things about our health care system.

I do feel sorry for Americans who can't even pay for food to put on the table for their kids, let alone worry about paying for that tonsil surgery they got last week.
indeed. At least one thing to be happy about in Canada.
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جوري
03-15-2010, 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Doctor's duty is to save life but not in a paternalistic manner. Gone are the days when doctors could act as father figures for patients. Today doctors save lives by taking into account the views and beliefs of patient. Patient autonomy is an important principle and a doctor cant let his responsibility of beneficence overtake his responsibility to respect the patients which is done by allowing the capable patient to make decisions for his or herself.
Pt. autonomy doesn't mean helping them out of this world if that is their wish, further if your own personal beliefs conflict with those of the patient, then you may transfer them to the care of another doctor..
Yes you can't force treatment on patients if they don't want it.. but you can't comply with the patients wishes to play God.. surely you've seen what happened to Dr. Kevorkian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

currently only Oregon allows Euthanasia.. I pity them really!

all the best
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Muslim Woman
03-15-2010, 01:28 AM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
..you may transfer them to the care of another doctor..
you can't comply with the patients wishes to play God..

yes , good points.


Certainly no one despairs of Allahs Mercy, except the people who disbelieve."
( سورة يوسف , Yusuf, Chapter #12, Verse #87)


Allah burdens not a person beyond his scope.


2:286
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Pt. autonomy doesn't mean helping them out of this world if that is their wish, further if your own personal beliefs conflict with those of the patient, then you may transfer them to the care of another doctor..
Yes you can't force treatment on patients if they don't want it.. but you can't comply with the patients wishes to play God.. surely you've seen what happened to Dr. Kevorkian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

currently only Oregon allows Euthanasia.. I pity them really!

all the best
Of course you cant give in to all desires of patients. If a patient asks for a diagnostic test or treatment which in most probability will not benefit the patient, based on compelling evidence, a doctor is not supposed to give that treatment.

I am currently against euthanasia because of my Islamic beliefs. I have not seen the misery and suffering of anyone close to me (allhamdulillah) and maybe that is why I am against it. But I do hope that I do not get to see such misery and do hope that my views not evolve into those which are accepting of euthanasia. Experience makes us change many cherished beliefs.

Letting the disease take its natural course by removing artificial life-prolonging treatment is altogether a separate issue.
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Life_Is_Short
03-15-2010, 01:49 AM
Should Doctors play a role in assisting a patient's death?

The simple and lawful answer to this question is no. It is true that doctors should take into account pateint's treatment and pain relief, but helping them die would be a betrayal of trust.
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by Life_Is_Short
Should Doctors play a role in assisting a patient's death?

The simple and lawful answer to this question is no. It is true that doctors should take into account pateint's treatment and pain relief, but helping them die would be a betrayal of trust.
How would it be a betrayal of trust if the capable patient his herself is willing to take that step?
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Karina
03-15-2010, 08:04 AM
As I do not subscribe to any particular religion, I, at this moment in time, am a supporter of Euthanasia; although I fully respect and understand the reasons why Muslims, for example, would be opposed to the matter.

I do firmly believe in my right to die, and at some point will be making a living will which will instruct doctors of my specific wishes should I ever be in the position that I cannot communicate that decision in person.

I don't ever want to experience a slow and painful death, one that reduces my existance to a miserable undignified nothingnesss. One which will no doubt burden my nearest and dearest and one that will surely be terrifying and agonising. :cry:

What we DO overlook is the fact that without our very own modern medicine and methods, many people would not be in this awful position in the first place..... To put it simply, they would have died a long time ago. So maybe the needless lengthening of the suffering is our fault in the first place? If you look at it like this, then the lines are even more blurred.

What about the profiting pharmaceutical companies :raging: who would love nothing more than to see a nice long treatement programme that will never cure, just prolong the suffering. Did God really want this? :?

All I know is that I love my life dearly, but I was to be reduced to an empty shell of a body, reliant on others to feed, wash and toilet me, in excruciating pain and bringing distress to my loved ones - I know what my choice would be.
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Karina
As I do not subscribe to any particular religion, I, at this moment in time, am a supporter of Euthanasia; although I fully respect and understand the reasons why Muslims, for example, would be opposed to the matter.

I do firmly believe in my right to die, and at some point will be making a living will which will instruct doctors of my specific wishes should I ever be in the position that I cannot communicate that decision in person.

I don't ever want to experience a slow and painful death, one that reduces my existance to a miserable undignified nothingnesss. One which will no doubt burden my nearest and dearest and one that will surely be terrifying and agonising. :cry:

What we DO overlook is the fact that without our very own modern medicine and methods, many people would not be in this awful position in the first place..... To put it simply, they would have died a long time ago. So maybe the needless lengthening of the suffering is our fault in the first place? If you look at it like this, then the lines are even more blurred.

What about the profiting pharmaceutical companies :raging: who would love nothing more than to see a nice long treatement programme that will never cure, just prolong the suffering. Did God really want this? :?

All I know is that I love my life dearly, but I was to be reduced to an empty shell of a body, reliant on others to feed, wash and toilet me, in excruciating pain and bringing distress to my loved ones - I know what my choice would be.
The bolded part refers to life-prolonging treatment. Following what you said would then let the disease take its natural course, and hence is not euthanasia.

Euthanasia is active or passive participation of the doctor to help the patient die, who otherwise would not if left on the diseases' natural course, at least not in foreseeable future. So, for example killing a person who MS of neurons controlling skeletal muscle.

Regarding the second bolded part, since it has happened then yes, God willed it. Whether He loves it or not, I cannot answer that. He let things happen which He hates. We like to think of God in positive terms. Like He is the Creator. But He is also the Destroyer. At least the Islamic God.
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Karina
03-15-2010, 09:31 AM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
since it has happened then yes, God willed it. Whether He loves it or not, I cannot answer that. He let things happen which He hates. We like to think of God in positive terms. Like He is the Creator. But He is also the Destroyer. At least the Islamic God.
If Allah can will for humans to intervene and prolong life, can He not will for humans to intervene and end suffering?
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aamirsaab
03-15-2010, 09:58 AM
:sl:

I voted no.

I have no right to end someone else's life. Even if I did, I don't have the mental capacity to endure that action: it would play on my mind for the rest of my life. I've only killed two things in my life: a joke and a coke and that's how it's going to stay.

So no, I don't support euthanasia. But, I understand that it's not an easy situation to be in. Actually, it's a terrible situation to be in and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I don't look down on anyone who supports it, however. I'll leave the judging to Allah. But I do not support it because of my reasons above and on religious grounds.

God willing we will never have to experience it.
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Life_Is_Short
03-15-2010, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
How would it be a betrayal of trust if the capable patient his herself is willing to take that step?
When they are imcompetent to make such a request. The doctor-patient relationship is built on trust. If doctors were seen as a group to be participating in 'premature' patient deaths that trust would be eroded.
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Woodrow
03-15-2010, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
If Allah can will for humans to intervene and prolong life, can He not will for humans to intervene and end suffering?
Except death does not necessarily end suffering. It can very well be the start of eternal, unstoppable suffering much grater than can be imagined in human terms. To assist a person to end their own life is no different than casting them into eternal flames.
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Karina
03-15-2010, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Except death does not necessarily end suffering. It can very well be the start of eternal, unstoppable suffering much grater than can be imagined in human terms. To assist a person to end their own life is no different than casting them into eternal flames.
Agreed - from a Muslim point of view of course. And only if the person qualifies for the hellfire and not for Jannah, right?

What I am saying is, if a doctor can prolong a the life of (for example) a patient in a vegetative state, this is not seen as being sinful or wrong is it? (Or is it?)
Surely this can be viewed as meddling with God's plan for that person.... just as compassionatley and consentfully assisting a person to die is considered by some to be meddling with 'destiny' and the wishes of the Allmighty so to speak.

Woodrow - I'm confused! :hmm:
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Woodrow
03-15-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by Karina
Agreed - from a Muslim point of view of course. And only if the person qualifies for the hellfire and not for Jannah, right?

What I am saying is, if a doctor can prolong a the life of (for example) a patient in a vegetative state, this is not seen as being sinful or wrong is it? (Or is it?)
Surely this can be viewed as meddling with God's plan for that person.... just as compassionatley and consentfully assisting a person to die is considered by some to be meddling with 'destiny' and the wishes of the Allmighty so to speak.

Woodrow - I'm confused! :hmm:
The confusion is understandable.

I personally believe the use of extraordinary means to prolong life can be just as wrong as euthanasia. I know others will disagree with me, but I see keeping a "dead" person in a vegetative state is simply maintaining a cell culture to give false hope to family and friends and is just as immoral as euthanasia.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
03-15-2010, 05:06 PM
I don't know about your religion but my religion does not allow mercy killing or assisted suicide!:shade:
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Skavau
03-15-2010, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Except death does not necessarily end suffering. It can very well be the start of eternal, unstoppable suffering much grater than can be imagined in human terms. To assist a person to end their own life is no different than casting them into eternal flames.
This of course, as someone else has already pointed out: is only true if Islam is deemed true. A patient who is suffering in life (unesolvably so) and who wishes to end that suffering has no reason to accept this perspective of the potential of the 'afterlife'.
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CosmicPathos
03-15-2010, 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by Life_Is_Short
When they are imcompetent to make such a request. The doctor-patient relationship is built on trust. If doctors were seen as a group to be participating in 'premature' patient deaths that trust would be eroded.
Incapacity is a different issue. We are talking about those who are capable to make their own decisions. True, a doctor cannot be forced to do euthanasia on someone if he does not believe in its correctness but he also cannot take that right away from the patient. Regarding making it legal or illegal, ill let that to the ulama to decide. I personally think that from patient's perspective euthanasia is akin to suicide. If euthanasia is to be allowed, suicide should be allowed to but I doubt any legal system will allow that leeway and decriminalize suicide, in the Western world. Canada considers suicide or aiding and abating someone to commit suicide as a crime.

@ karina: regarding humans intervening to end life, there are divine injunctions to not "help" someone die and on personal level to not kill oneself. In that regards, smoking is also suicidal once the inevitability of its risks have been manifested to the smoker. Surely, many ppl are able to commit suicide, it means God is allowing suicide to happen, does not mean He approves of it.

@ Woodrow: regarding vegetative state, I think scholars have allowed to let go of life-prolonging treatment once it is certain that the person is brain dead. Confusing part is that the "heart" is still alive. So when Quran mention "hearts are sealed," is it referring to the brain or to the cardiac muscle.
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Life_Is_Short
03-15-2010, 06:58 PM
Originally Posted by mad_scientist
Incapacity is a different issue. We are talking about those who are capable to make their own decisions. True, a doctor cannot be forced to do euthanasia on someone if he does not believe in its correctness but he also cannot take that right away from the patient. Regarding making it legal or illegal, ill let that to the ulama to decide. I personally think that from patient's perspective euthanasia is akin to suicide. If euthanasia is to be allowed, suicide should be allowed to but I doubt any legal system will allow that leeway and decriminalize suicide, in the Western world. Canada considers suicide or aiding and abating someone to commit suicide as a crime.
Pardon my ignorance, but i was talking about those that are incompetent to make such a request. If the law is removed who would make decisions for such people. For-example, If a doctor told you your mother's "quality of life" was not worth living for and asked you, as the closest family member, to approve a "quick, painless ending of her life" and you refused how would doctors, nurses and others, conditioned to accept euthanasia as normal and right, treat you and your mother.

There was an interesting article in the journal 'Pulse' about how a GP who is dying from cancer made an impassioned plea for a rethink on assisted suicid.She worked as a GP for 30 years, and was shortlisted for a lifetime achievement award by the BMJ earlier this year for her medical work and was aiming to make her final achievement to change the views of the medical profession on assisted dying and drive the debate on a change in the law – even though she knows she won’t see the conclusion.
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believeByHEART.
03-15-2010, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace Boaz,

I see the paradox in that the scum of the earth are released from their earthly pains through execution for their crimes and the pious who have done no wrong have to suffer for years during the course of a painful terminal disease, injury, or genetic fault.

It does not seem fair and it seems it would be more fitting that criminals should be forced to live to an old age without being relieved of the burdens of life.

I can only speak for myself. I do not consider myself a stoic person, but I am a person who has lived a considerable time with chronic excruciating pain as a very close companion. To be honest I do desire the relief of the grave, but I would never request euthanasia nor seek suicide. I see death as being a reward I am not yet worthy of and my purpose here not yet ended. I stopped taking all pain killers and sedatives a few years back and now see my pain as a gift and one of my reasons for living. This pain has given me the incentive to continue forward in a direction I would have feared to travel. I see it as a gift as I know that no human or physical event can bring me any more pain then I now face daily. I live a life completely free of fear, thanks to pain.

So my opinion is euthanasia/mercy killings are not an option permitted to us humans. It is murder and deprives the person of discovering the gift they have been given.
that post actually has inspired me to look at pain in a very different perspective. you speak of such wise truthful words woodrow, feel proud! you have today changed a persons outlook :D
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