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جوري
04-10-2010, 06:25 PM
Polish President, Dignitaries Killed in Plane Crash

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(April 10) -- Poland's president, his wife and some of the country's most prominent military and civilian leaders died this morning when their plane crashed while coming in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia. There were no survivors aboard the plane, which carried 97 people.

President Lech Kaczynski and his wife Maria were heading to Russia's Smolensk region to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, where Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish officers during World War II.


"The Polish presidential plane did not make it to the runway while landing. Tentative findings indicate that it hit the treetops and fell apart," Smolensk's governor, Sergei Anufriev, told Russian TV. "Nobody has survived the disaster."

Russia's Emergency Minister Sergei Shoigu said there were 97 dead, 88 of whom were part of the Polish state delegation. Initial signs pointed to an accident with no indication of foul play.

Local media showed footage of the crash site, where firefighters sprayed water on smoldering wreckage strewn through a wooded area. A tail fin with Poland's red and white flag colors stuck up from the debris. The plane reportedly went down less than 400 yards from an airport runway.

Poland's presidential plane was a Soviet-built Tupolev TU154M, at least 20 years old. Officials have long considered replacing the Polish fleet, but said they lacked the funds. The exact plane involved in today's crash was fully overhauled in December, including repairs to three engines and updating navigation equipment, an aviation director told Russian TV. He said there was no doubt that the plane was flightworthy.

According to the Aviation Safety Network, there have been 66 crashes involving Tu-154s, including six in the past five years. Russia recently withdrew its Tu-154 fleet from service.

Also among the dead were the chief of staff of the Polish army, the national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers. Leaders Killed in Plane Crashes




Polish President Lech Kaczynski, shown here in 2008, died Saturday in a plane crash. He was leading a delegation to Russia to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, where Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish officers during World War II. Kaczynski is the latest world leader killed in an air disaster.
Leaders Killed in Plane Crashes
Polish President Lech Kaczynski, shown here in 2008, died Saturday in a plane crash. He was leading a delegation to Russia to mark the 70th anniversary of the Katyn massacre, where Soviet secret police killed thousands of Polish officers during World War II. Kaczynski is the latest world leader killed in an air disaster.

"We still cannot fully understand the scope of this tragedy and what it means for us in the future. Nothing like this has ever happened in Poland," the country's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Piotr Paszkowski, told The Associated Press. "We can assume with great certainty that all persons on board have been killed."

For some, the plane crash evoked haunting memories of the Katyn massacre.

"It is a ****ed place," former president Aleksander Kwas'niewski told Polish TV. "It sends shivers down my spine. First the flower of the Second Polish Republic is murdered in the forests around Smolensk, now the intellectual elite of the Third Polish Republic die in this tragic plane crash when approaching Smolensk airport."

"This is a wound which will be very difficult to heal," he said.

The crash could also be a setback for Polish-Russian relations, which had been on the mend after decades of mistrust over the Katyn massacre. Russia never apologized for the murders of some 22,000 Polish officers, but Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's decision to attend today's memorial ceremony was seen as a gesture of goodwill. Putin has been appointed head of a commission investigating today's crash, the Kremlin said.

"Russia shares the grief and mourning of Poland," Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said in a Kremlin statement. "Please accept the most sincere condolences to the Polish people, words of compassion and support to relatives and friends of those who perished."

Russian TV showed hundreds of people gathering at the Katyn memorial, many holding Polish flags and weeping.

With 38 million people, Poland is the largest of the ten formerly communist countries that have joined the European Union in recent years. It was the only EU nation to avoid recession last year, posting economic growth of 1.7 percent.

Poland is also a key U.S. ally in the region since the fall of communism. "This is a horrible tragedy for Poland and we extend to the people of Poland our deepest condolences," State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said.

A nationalist conservative, 60-year-old Kaczynski was elected president in December 2005. He had said he would seek a second term in presidential elections this fall, and was expected to face off against Parliament speaker Bronislaw Komorowski.

According to Poland's constitution, Komorowski would take over the presidency on Kaczynski's death, and then has 14 days to call new elections.

In Warsaw, the Polish flag was lowered over the presidential palace as mourners gather to lay flowers outside and light candles. Prime Minister Donald Tusk has called an emergency Cabinet meeting.

Kaczynski is the first serving Polish leader to die since exiled World War II-era leader Gen. Wladyslaw Sikorski was killed in a plane crash off Gibraltar in 1943. Kaczynski was born in 1949 to a father who fought in Poland's resistance during World War II. He and his twin brother Jaroslaw became famous at age 12 when they starred in a popular Polish film, "Two Boys Who Stole the Moon."

Under communism, the brothers became involved in the anti-government movement. Lech served as an adviser to the strike committee at the Gdansk shipyard, where Poland's grassroots Solidarity movement was founded in 1980. But by the 1990s they found themselves outside mainstream Polish politics after falling out with Solidarity leader Lech Walesa, who had by then become president.

In 2001, the Kaczynski brothers founded the Law and Justice party, which espouses traditional values of the Roman Catholic Church. As mayor of Warsaw, Lech twice banned gay parades and spoke in support of reintroducing the death penalty. But as president, his right-wing stance appealed to many Poles, especially religious or rural voters.

At one point, Poland's two top political jobs were held by Kaczynskis, with Lech as president and his brother Jaroslaw as prime minister. Jaroslaw stepped down from that post after 2007 elections, and is now Poland's opposition leader.

The president's wife Maria was an economist, and the couple had one daughter, Marta, and two granddaughters.
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Amadeus85
04-10-2010, 08:04 PM
President died and his wife, whole president's political camp were killed, the chief of the National Bank, the chief of National Remembrence Institute, the Spokesman of Civilian Rights, all army' chiefs died, some envoys from all 4 major parties, few bishops.
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جوري
04-10-2010, 08:57 PM
do you think there is more to it than plane mal-function?
how did you personally like this president and his cabinet? I found this news very odd.. you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket least of which when you are the one who runs the show..
this is very sad.. where will Poland go from here?
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Argamemnon
04-10-2010, 09:35 PM
Why does this not happen to the U.S. or Israel?
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cat eyes
04-10-2010, 09:37 PM
because there planes are more advanced then europe they would probably get checked everyday
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Supreme
04-10-2010, 09:41 PM
This is just incredibly sad. The Prime Minister, Tusk, was repotedly in tears when the news reached him of the President's death. I can't imagine what Poland must be feelng right now. My prayers are with the dead and the Polish people.
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cat eyes
04-10-2010, 09:51 PM
i have some polish friends they are shocked cant believe it at all
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Amadeus85
04-10-2010, 11:05 PM
[QUOTE=Gossamer skye;1316030]
do you think there is more to it than plane mal-function?
It was probably because of the haze, it was early morning, and the view was extremely bad.

how did you personally like this president and his cabinet?
It was best president since we fought back independence in 1989. He wasn't great, but he was best so far.


this is very sad.. where will Poland go from here?
Thank You, it was probably the biggest tragedy for us since the end of World War II, we dont know what will hapenn in future, the politics rather did stink before that, and now we lost one of the best among them.
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The_Prince
04-10-2010, 11:10 PM
weather is often a good straw man for aircrashes, i doubt this crash was because of the fog, pilots are trained for this sort of weather, and it is pretty basic for them to fly through fog, especially with the technology they have, and the assistance of the tower raidar.

this plane model that crashed is a bad plane model, so it could be a technical fault with the plane.

if the crash was due to fog, then thats some bad piloting, they usually hire the top pilots for high officials, and a top pilot wouldnt crash in such conditions.
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Maryan0
04-11-2010, 12:00 AM
WOW you dont hear of head's of state dying everyday. This will definetly have a very big effect on their politics in the future
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جوري
04-11-2010, 12:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85



Thank You, it was probably the biggest tragedy for us since the end of World War II, we dont know what will hapenn in future, the politics rather did stink before that, and now we lost one of the best among them.
from the little I have read so far he seemed like an affable fellow.. who takes over the presidency when the president dies? do you follow an American style system? will a vice president be in charge now or will you run re-election after mourning? does this make your country especially vulnerable or is there a good back up plane in case of such tragedies?
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ardianto
04-11-2010, 09:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
President died and his wife, whole president's political camp were killed, the chief of the National Bank, the chief of National Remembrence Institute, the Spokesman of Civilian Rights, all army' chiefs died, some envoys from all 4 major parties, few bishops.
Please send my condolence to Polish people.
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Amadeus85
04-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Thank You all for condolences.
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Supreme
04-11-2010, 12:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Thank You all for condolences.
Wow. Even here in London, where there is a big Polish diaspora, Catholic churches are filled to the brim with mourners wishing to pray and pay their respects to the late President. Many Poles who disliked him are praying and mourning for him. May he rest in peace.
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Amadeus85
04-11-2010, 12:40 PM
Its good time to remind why the officials were flying to Katyn. Remind the acts of "uncle Joe" and communism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USZcr...eature=related
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islamirama
04-12-2010, 01:47 AM
Georgian TV foretold murder of Polish President by Russian KGB terrorists
Publication time: Today at 14:22 Emirate time

The killing of the Polish President Lech Kaczynski in a plane crash organized by the KGB (FSB), was reported on March 13, 2010 by the Georgian TV channel Imedi.



A half-an-hour-long film about an alleged Russian aggression against Georgia foretold the killing of Lech Kaczynski in an explosion of his presidential plane.

The statement by the head of the international affairs committee of the Russian parliament, Kosachev, who talked about a plane crash near Smolensk, seems rather strange in this context.

In an interview with the Russian news agency Interfax, he said he was "in a state of shock and horror" over the news. "The soul trembles to think that Katyn has taken new victims", Kosachev said.



In 1940, more than 15,000 of Polish officers were executed in Katyn under the order of the Kremlin and Stalin personally. Until recently, Russia has been trying to deny its responsibility for the massacre. Moscow has not apologized so far for this Russian crime.

Moreover, Moscow tried to do everything possible to prevent the Polish President Lech Kaczynski to visit Katyn. Diplomatic scandals broke more than once on this occasion.

Some historical facts are interesting in this regard.

* On September 30, 1939, a Polish army general in London exile, Sikorski, became the prime minister of the Polish exile government (and remained on this post until the death in 1943).

After the discovery by the Germans mass graves of Polish officers in , who were killed by the Russians in a camp for war prisoners, Sikorski quarreled with Moscow. In April 1943, relations with the Polish government in exile were formally broken by Stalin's government after Sikorski demanded investigation into the Katyn massacre.

Sikorsky charged the Soviet Union with a war crime and demanded that Churchill breaks relations with the USSR. A few weeks later, General Wladyslaw Sikorski and his daughter Sophia died in a plane crash on July 4, 1943, near Gibraltar.

In November 2008, his body was exhumed and tested by Polish experts to confirm that the Soviet secret police had been involved in his death.

We would like to mention thereupon that the Polish President Lech Kaczynski was one of the Polish leaders most hated by Moscow. Indeed, the Kremlin had reasons to hate Kaczynski. Here are some facts:

* The city council of Warsaw under the leadership of then-mayor of the Polish capital Kaczynski renamed one of the largest squares in Warsaw after the first Chechen President Dzhokhar Dudayev

* The Kaczynski's election campaign was based on slogans of national revival and historical responsibility of Russia for crimes against Poland.

* On Nov. 15, 2006, Kaczynski offered to the EU to impose sanctions against Russia if Moscow refuses to lift ban on the import of Polish meat and agricultural products.

* Poland vetoed talks on cooperation between the European Union and Russia, which were to begin at the EU-Russia summit on November 24.

* During the war in South Ossetia in August 2008, Kaczynski announced his full support for Georgia.

* After the Russian war against Georgia, Poland accepted the US proposal to deploy a missile defense system (interceptor missiles) on its territory.

* At Kaczynski's initiative Poland was going to free Europe from Russian gas dependence with an increased production of its own shale gas. In this case, Poland could become the largest European supplier of this type of fuel.

It is to be mentioned that Lech Kaczynski said that one of the goals of the Russian aggression against Georgia was an attempt to prevent Europe to get rid of the gas dependence from Moscow. Kaczynski has also actively lobbied for Georgia's joining the NATO.

Many ordinary people in the world doubt that the crash was accidental. In a guestbook of Polish Radio English Service a Belarus resident writes:

"The signs appear more and more worrying that the Russians were involved. From the Nazi-Russian pact and Katyn to the recent Russian and Belarusian war games near the Polish border, Russia has always considered Poland its own territory, lost in a time of weakness much as China threatens all over democratic Taiwan.

The difference is that Russia shows no compunction about murdering its citizens abroad and backing its threats with violence (vide Georgia) and economic measures (closing oil pipelines). A Russian plane recently "repaired" in a Russian factory? If it is simply a coincidence, through its actions Russia immediately comes under suspicion.

My condolences to our Polish allies who have always supported us since breaking free from Russian control".

It is to be mentioned that according to the Russian media, "the Kaczynski's presidential plane was fully overhauled in December, the general director of the Aviakor aviation maintenance plant in Samara, Russia, told the Rossiya-24 TV. The plant repaired the plane's three engines, installed new electronic and navigation equipment and updated the interior", Alexei Gusev said.

In their turn, the Russian authorities actively promote the version of a "bad weather", which became the "cause of the accident". Moscow claims a dense fog covered the military airfield near Smolensk. The fog, for some reason, did not prevent eye-witnesses to see quite clearly the details of the aircraft flight.

"The plane tilted to the left before crashing, witness Slawomir Sliwinski told the state news channel Rossiya-24. He said there were two loud explosions when the aircraft hit the ground and burst into flames", AP reports.

Meanwhile, the Polish media does not exclude FSB's involvement in the crash. A possibility of a terror attack by the FSB is also being considered.

In particular, a Polish expert on the TV channel POLSAT called improbable the Russian explanation that the crash of the Polish plane was caused by bad weather, a pilot's error, etc.

Polish flags in Poland have been lowered to half-mast. Under the Poland's constitution, the leader of the lower house of Parliament, who is now the acting president, has 14 days to announce new elections to be held within 60 days.

According to the experts, there are some "strange aspects" in this tragedy. The Polish side asserts that 88 people flew from Poland, but the number of the dead amounted to 132 people, according to initial Russian reports.

All passengers died, as Russian media have reported an hour after the tragedy, although in similar accidents, 80 percent of passengers usually survive. The plane fell to earth only from the height of 15 meters. There were no fires, no fuel, but security was increased, etc. The plane could have landed on other airfield, but it didn't.

Polish media outlets seriously doubt the explanation from the Russian side that the plane was reportedly going to land in a fourth attempt. According to Russian media outlets, the press service of the Smolensk Region told that the airport air control allegedly offered the Polish pilot to land in Minsk, 200 km from Smolensk, but the pilot reportedly refused.

"Skilled pilots seldom decide to land the plane in a fourth attempt, usually, if the second attempt fails, pilots land in an alternate airport", said one of Polish pilots on Polish T`V, noting that the best pilots of the country fly the president's plane.

The Polish side noted that the tragedy of this magnitude and level occurred for the first time in the world. A large number of top officials of Poland died.

Ukrainian media outlets do not exclude that Kaczynski's plane was lured into a trap.

The reason remains unclear why the pilots of Tu-154 with top officials of the Republic of Poland on board decided to use for landing a poorly adapted military airfield "North" near the town of Pechersk in Smolensk Region, rather than to land at the airport of Smolensk, the Ukrainian RUpor agency reports.

The agency notes that the existence of a military airport on the territory of Russia is a state secret and without the intervention of the military department dispatcher civil service can not recommend landing to foreign government planes. Especially, since, as noted by the TV channel Russia 24, prior to this, the airport denied landing for a Russian military aircraft.

If an intervention of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces (and perhaps, actually the military intelligence GRU) is proved, it could be possible to speculate on the political component of the catastrophe.

Experts repeatedly mentioned a sharply increased role of the Russian military intelligence GRU after the Medvedev's rise to power.


Department of Monitoring
Kavkaz Center

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Supreme
04-12-2010, 10:16 AM
Ironicallly, I think this is going to strengthen ties between Russia and Poland. Russians have shown repects and sympathy, and Putin in particular is concerned about this and is leading the investigation.
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