If Israel were not in the middle east ?

[marwen]

The zionist country of Israel is the responsible for at least 50% of the wars and conflicts in the middle east. Don't you think the world would be better if Israel were not found in the middle east ?

Should the country of Israel :

1) stay in the middle east ?
2) be created in Northern America : USA / Canada ?
3) be created in Southern America ?
4) in a scandinavian country ?
5) in an Asian country ?
6) in Australia ?
7) No, Jews don't need a specific country. Israel shouldn't exist ?

Make a vote !

[Supreme]

It should stay in the Middle East. There's no sacred Jewish sites, to my knowledge, outside of the current borders of Israel. There is also no other land so steeped in Jewish history.

[Abdul-Raouf]

Whereeva it is....it will...betray the one who saved her.

part of it in US and part of it in UK...... so that these two realise how gud israel is.

^^^ no such option to vote.

[Predator]

Option 7 is the closest answer .

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[جوري]

I thought when they were first 'assembling' they had two choices between Palestine and Argentina .. I am not sure if I remember correctly..
they are meats to be in Palestine for a promised day.. I mean certainly it is a major sign of the end..
one sometimes wonders if they assembled there to fulfill the sign knowingly or unknowingly .. it is a great mystery but there is no mystery about this:

[Pickthal 17:4] And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture: Ye verily will work corruption in the earth twice, and ye will become great tyrants.
[Pickthal 17:5] So when the time for the first of the two came, We roused against you slaves of Ours of great might who ravaged (your) country, and it was a threat performed.
[Pickthal 17:6] Then we gave you once again your turn against them, and We aided you with wealth and children and made you more in soldiery.
[Pickthal 17:7] (Saying): If ye do good, ye do good for your own souls, and if ye do evil, it is for them (in like manner). So, when the time for the second (of the judgments) came (We roused against you others of Our slaves) to ravage you, and to enter the Temple even as they entered it the first time, and to lay waste all that they conquered with an utter wasting.


[Pickthal 17:104] And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.


:w:

[Alchemist]

Whereeva it is....it will...betray the one who saved her.

part of it in US and part of it in UK...... so that these two realise how gud israel is.

^^^ no such option to vote.

I agree with you.. they should put them in the uk because they're the reason the Zionist are in Palastain right now.. and USA because they continued helping Zionist after the uk..

[marwen]

Any one of these countries will not accept Israel to be implanted in their land. Why it's unallowable for palestinians to refuse this country on their soil ?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

i dont think she should be in existance at all :hmm:

[Life_Is_Short]

Should be moved to another planet uninhabited by extra terrestrial and away from human civilization.

That is the best option. :thumbs_up

[Argamemnon]

Wow, excellent sources here!

Jewish terror, massacres, torture:

http://radioislam.org/islam/english/....htm#terrorism

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

1. Israel should stay in the middle east.

2. Israel is responsible to more than 50% of world problems.

3. One has to understand what are the real reasons behind these
problems, why they occur and what are the cause for them.

4. These problems should be responsibly solved for the fair
benefit of everybody.

5. This could only be done by a responsible union of all
of humanity dedicated for this purpose, putting all previous
disputes aside and striving to solve the issue in a matter
that would be fitting to Allah's will and also serve to relief
the pain of all people suffering from the condition there
(I am certain that these two goals do not contradict).

6. This would only begin by the encouragement of religious
voices through out the world (be it Muslims, Christians or the different
branches of Judaisim)

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

By the way. In the last few years we have been used to the following figure of speech

" Country X is doing that...."

" Country Y is not ok..."

From a Muslim point of view - this figure of speech is problematic as it puts us in a wrong mindset.

A country is not a human being - a country is an institution and an organization. In particular, it has
no will or soul of its own (although it does have properties which are dictated to it by its citizens)

One has to remember that. In fact, what I see in most countries today is mainly confusion
which is caused by the fact that most countries today do not have strong religious voices taking care
that things would be done in religiously appropriate ways.

Let me clarify. We (secular communities I mean) think that when Allah's law is not actively followed it is human or secular law that is followed.

This is stupidity. When Allah's law is not followed directly it is followed covertly - usually through pain
and suffering because when people are trying to go around things which cannot be walked around they have an invisible leash on their throats taking them on the right path and this leash can be very tight (even if unseen).

This is my modest understanding on the situation of our relationship with our politcal systems.

[Rhubarb Tart]

No, Jews don't need a specific country. Israel shouldn't exist = 50 %!!! That is disgusting...+o(

Last time I checked they are entitled to a land (not talking about current situation) and their own rule according to Islam. So it is completely okay for muslims and Christain to have their own countries but not Jews. I dont get it?

50% really? Is that how much people "hate" Jews? Not all Jews are bad and there are alot that are against Israel state.

[JETforce]

I'm a pretty big critic of Israeli military policy, and perhaps if Israel never existed, a modern palestinian state would have been formed, but I don't have some time machine that would allow me to see that. All I know is Israel is the most progressive area of the entire Middle East, and is a paradise compared to its neighbors, for Israelis anyway, and that's where the real problem lies. They need to end their aggressive policies towards arabs and the nearby countries, they are complete bullies. But domestically, I admire them a lot.

[sister herb]

Should be moved to another planet uninhabited by extra terrestrial and away from human civilization.

That is the best option. :thumbs_up

This is absolutely best idea. But what if possible inhabitants (?) in other planet don´t want them also to there?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

We are all wasting our time on worthless politics.

This whole discussion can be summarized like that:

1. The Nazis did some horrible things but they killed people - Not Jews
(wether they were Jews or not makes no difference).

2. The Nazis were secular people and so were most of the people they
killed.

3. The problem with the people that live in Israel and take the calls there
is not that they are Jews (this is debatable) but that they are secular.

4. The moral of this story is that secularism sucks.

p.s I never understood what the Nazis had to do with Jews anyway? It sounds so far fetched picking up something from the bible all of a sudden - why didn't they just go against people with weird birth marks or so?

[Darth Ultor]

It should remain where it is. These are where the sacred Jewish sites are. But Gaza and the West Bank should be all Palestinian. I'm asking honestly now, are there any sacred Islamic sites in Israel other than Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock?

[Woodrow]

It should remain where it is. These are where the sacred Jewish sites are. But Gaza and the West Bank should be all Palestinian. I'm asking honestly now, are there any sacred Islamic sites in Israel other than Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock?

Very many of the sites Jews and Christians view as sacred are also of importance to us.

Here it is difficult to explain. Our concept of "Sacred" for some of these sites does differ from "Sacred" in terms of Judaism and Christianity concept. We do not worship these sites or any Prophets(PBUT) but we do have high regard for all of the Prophets(PBUT) and do see importance and our history in many of the same sites Jews and Christians call "Sacred".

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

True.

So why don't we have peace?

This is so confusing.

[Darth Ultor]

We don't worship the Western Wall or the site of the temple. Think of it as our Kaaba.

[Woodrow]

True.

So why don't we have peace?

This is so confusing.

Al Capp in his cartoon strip "Lil Abner" seems to have summed it up with a comic strip contained within the "Lil Abner" strip. The character of "Fearless Fosdick" the Peace loving character that killed everybody who wasn't peaceful. It was sort of a satire on the human nature of "Us versus Them"

We all want peace, but too often people think the other guy is a threat to peace and must be destroyed.

While all humans profess to wanting peace, too many see conquest as the means to achieve it. I do not see how there can be absolute world peace until the day comes that everybody lives under and in obedience of One God(swt). I see Islam as the solution, but there are those who see different and consider the destruction of Islam to be the solution.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Al Capp in his cartoon strip "Lil Abner" seems to have summed it up with a comic strip contained within the "Lil Abner" strip. The character of "Fearless Fosdick" the Peace loving character that killed everybody who wasn't peaceful. It was sort of a satire on the human nature of "Us versus Them"

We all want peace, but too often people think the other guy is a threat to peace and must be destroyed.

While all humans profess to wanting peace, too many see conquest as the means to achieve it. I do not see how there can be absolute world peace until the day comes that everybody lives under and in obedience of One God(swt). I see Islam as the solution, but there are those who see different and consider the destruction of Islam to be the solution.

True. Foolish. I do not think that anybody can justify this in the name of God (no matter what book he reads).

Seems like one big confusion caused by secular agenda blended with misunderstanding. Hopefully there will be peace. Only when truly God fearing people would say their word.

[Supreme]

It should remain where it is. These are where the sacred Jewish sites are. But Gaza and the West Bank should be all Palestinian. I'm asking honestly now, are there any sacred Islamic sites in Israel other than Masjid al-Aqsa and the Dome of the Rock?

Perhaps that isn't the best solution, but it is almost certainly the most practical and efficient solution. It's also the most likely solution. Here's hoping it'll happen soon.

Very many of the sites Jews and Christians view as sacred are also of importance to us.

I don't think there's many Christian sites that are also considered holy in Islam. However, there are numerous Jewish sites considered holy in Islam.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I think there is a certain confusion going on.

The problem isn't a dispute between Israel and Muslims about
which sites are holy.

The problem is that the Israeli authorities do not view any site
as holy be it Christian, Muslim or any other religion.

Israel is a secular country - period.

[Woodrow]

I think there is a certain confusion going on.

The problem isn't a dispute between Israel and Muslims about
which sites are holy.

The problem is that the Israeli authorities do not view any site
as holy be it Christian, Muslim or any other religion.

Israel is a secular country - period.

True. Often we make the error of thinking the Zionist Government of Israel is based upon a religious belief. The fact is it is completely void of any religious guidance.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

True. It is rather sad because I get the impression that they are more confused and
unguided than they are wicked.

[yahia12]

they stay in the middle east, its right place in my oppinion. they do share common historical and religious ties with abrahamic religions.

[Abdul Wahid]

If Jews did 'deserve' a country of its own. Maybe the Western world should have given them a place somewhere in Europe.

Why do the Palestinians have to suffer? Why was their land stolen?

It's even worse that the Palestinians are now in a prison & are suffering daily at the hands of the Zionists.

[Muezzin]

It would be nice if participants in this thread could remain civil and discus the subject matter in a mature manner. That would probably render this thread the only one of its kind not to erupt like an Icelandic volcano.

I've removed a certain fiery off-topic tangent. Any complaints/hate-mail should be sent to the usual PM inbox. :)

[Rabi Mansur]

:sl:

I just have a real problem with basing the existence of a state on "race." We are just the human race and that is it IMHO. Israel is based on the idea of a Jewish race. It is not a religious state, but based upon race. You have to show that you come from Jewish racial background through your mother to become a citizen, I believe.

Is there another country in the world based on race? Just wondering.

:wa:

[IslamicRevival]

Israel should not exist in the first place, look into history and its crystal clear it was created in the most inhumane and brutal manner. Illegal immigrants flooded in from all parts of the world and started calling themselves 'Jews' Its all a sham, The TRUE Jews know the truth and dont recognize Israel so why should I?

What Hitler did to the Jews was bad, but what the zionists did and are doing to innocent Palestinians is just as bad, if not worse. Rewind 70+ years back when there was no such thing as 'Israel'...When it was PALESTINE, everyone lived in peace and harmony, Arabs, Christians and Jews lived together without any problems. Once this barbaric, racist, satanic state called 'Israel' came to existence with the help of satan, the dynamics of the middle east and the world changed, Its there for everyone to see, Israel is without a shadow of a doubt... the root of all evil.

Anyone who supports such a state has no decency in him/her and in my eyes, the lowest of the low.

[JETforce]

I just have a real problem with basing the existence of a state on "race." We are just the human race and that is it IMHO. Israel is based on the idea of a Jewish race. It is not a religious state, but based upon race. You have to show that you come from Jewish racial background through your mother to become a citizen, I believe.

Well, I'm against any formation of a nation based on racial separatism or anything like that, I agree. I think the formation of Israel was probably a mistake, but it's here now, and it's going to go away. So Israel needs to stop being so aggressive and pursue a two-state solution.

Israel is a secular country - period.

No it's not, it funds orthodox jewish religious activities and many of its laws are based on Jewish beliefs, such as their laws on marriage and citizenship. It doesn't have a separation of church and state.

[shuraimfan4lyf]

Should be moved to another planet uninhabited by extra terrestrial and away from human civilization.

That is the best option. :thumbs_up

I am with ya on that.. Israel should be wiped off the map as one of the world leaders said. But one of the major sign of day of judgement is the big war of Muslims vs Jews.

[Brenzy]

Salaam Aleikum everyone :)

I think while it might not be in the most suitable place, it's there now and it's not going anywhere. Isn't this is what has happened throughout history though? People take over other people and steal their lands? It's happened since time immemorial and will most likely keep repeating itself.

Comparing what Israel is doing to Palestinians to what the Nazi's did to the Jews is a big stretch: there's quite a difference in straight up genocide of millions of people to what is happening in Israel today. What the Israelis are doing is still terrible and should definitely NOT be happening! But I don't think you can compare the two.

I just think that it is their government and its policies that are the major problems in that area of the world.

Just remember that they're still human beings like the rest of us :) And if everyone keeps on the way we are, nothing will change.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

No it's not, it funds orthodox jewish religious activities and many of its laws are based on Jewish beliefs, such as their laws on marriage and citizenship. It doesn't have a separation of church and state.

Israel is a secular country which funds a made up orthodox religion which fits its secular agenda. In fact - the money goes to corrupt the religion.

That is - it is the secularity of the state which corrupts the religous concepts and not vice versa.

[Darth Ultor]

And the Saudi Monarchs and Iranian mullahs who run theocracies are not all about money, capital, and corruption?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

And the Saudi Monarchs and Iranian mullahs who run theocracies are not all about money, capital, and corruption?

What do I care about this?

I ask my self when the people would start waking up...and not serve
other people just because they see their faces in the news.

The problem today is that we have this weird concept of a "goverment"
or "goverments" and no normal concept of a community with religous
leaders who represent the community rather than foolish ideas of
foolish and un-guided people.

The reason why it is like that is also clear....