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View Full Version : Why are some christian missionaries so opportunist ?



marwen
04-20-2010, 10:09 PM
I have nothing against christian missionaries in general, and I have no problem with christians' will to spread their faith and to share their knowledge, I mean any religious community will feel happy to see their religion prevailing in numbers.

But what I can't understant why some christian missionaries have this strong will to bring to christianity every person they find at all costs (by hook or by crook) ? if they fail to convince people to enter to christianity, they exploit poor and illiterate people and tempt them with money and better life so they enter in christianity without understanding anything about it, and the same poor people will get out christianity when they don't get the money they were promised.

The main target of this type of missionaries is poor african countries where people can sell their sons to get money and have no problem to enter any new religion just to get food. I really find this type of behaviour just immoral, and non religious. I feel really angry because they exploit the weakness of people to tempt them and drag them to their religion. And why are they trying to spread christianity in poor country, there is many other rich countries where christianity is not expanded. I mean they actually send missionaries to Africa, and now to north Africa, and I heared in tv that one algerian poor man has become christian after receiving €5000, and that's just disgusting !

I just want to ask christian brothers and sisters here : Is this behaviour really allowable in christianity ? or are they just corrupted people used by politics to spread their control over the under-developed world ? I don't think it's allowable in other religions. In islam for example, it's not allowed to help people on condition that they enter in islam, we think it's horrible. We have to separate between da'wa and helping people : we should either help poor people without mentionning the religion. Or presenting our religion to people (in other contexts, other than charity works) and give them the total freedom to chose to enter in our religion or to refuse. I think that's what should every religious person do.

I don't think all christians agree with these despicable behaviour of some christian missionaries, but I just want some christian brother or sister here to present me the true christian opinion about this.
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Supreme
04-21-2010, 03:29 PM
I don't think bribing someone to become Christian is right. Honestly, even though I support the work of Christian missonaries, they can only do so much- inform someone of Christianity, what it's about etc, and let that person decide. Converts should only become Christian if it's what they want, not simply because someone forces them to or bribes them to. I certainly know that in my case, becoming Christian was what I truly wanted. I didn't convert purely out of fear of Hell, but because I genuinely was interested in becoming Christian.
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Amadeus85
04-21-2010, 04:37 PM
Lte's note that its mostly one group of christians that do such things.
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islamirama
04-21-2010, 05:30 PM
All the missionaries christians from the west do this thing. They bribe you into buying you as a convert. There are numerous stories of these opportunist extremists denying aid and what not to the poor in africa and other poor areas until they converted and accepted the bible. When the tsunami hit asia they went with trucks load of aid to offer to the indian villages that were wiped out, they also offered bibles for conversion. when the locals refused to convert and accept the bibles, to their dismay the trucks turned around and took their aid with them. This made india news. The local christian charity groups hate western missionary "charity" groups and says these frauds don't have respect of others faith, don't come to help the needy, care only about their conversion quotas and are giving all charities bad name, making it harder for us to go help those in need. All of these news stories are available on this forum if you search for them.
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Supreme
04-21-2010, 06:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Lte's note that its mostly one group of christians that do such things.
??? Missionary work should be a job for all Christians, Catholic or Protestant and indeed it is. Try and deny that Christianity isn't a missionary religion, ans you're not reading you Bible right.
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Predator
04-21-2010, 06:37 PM
The main target of this type of missionaries is poor african countries where people can sell their sons to get money and have no problem to enter any new religion just to get food. I really find this type of behaviour just immoral, and non religious. I feel really angry because they exploit the weakness of people to tempt them and drag them to their religion. And why are they trying to spread christianity in poor country, there is many other rich countries where christianity is not expanded. I mean they actually send missionaries to Africa, and now to north Africa, and I heared in tv that one algerian poor man has become christian after receiving €5000, and that's just disgusting !
Agree ,what's pathetic is that they try to target kids as well , who cant really be expected to engage them in an intellectual debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I81wqNqPMqc


Its Really very sad to see what Christians have resorted to. No wonder many people are reverting to the only true religion of Islam.

These " missionaries" are just afraid that if Islam spreads they can no longer enjoy their pleasures of having alcohol , pork, prostitution , pornography etc , thats why they attempt to evangelize muslims.
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marwen
04-21-2010, 08:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amadeus85
Lte's note that its mostly one group of christians that do such things.
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
??? Missionary work should be a job for all Christians, Catholic or Protestant and indeed it is. Try and deny that Christianity isn't a missionary religion, ans you're not reading you Bible right.
There is nothing wrong with christianity being a missionary religion. The problem is that some christians are doing the missionary job the wrong way. The right way is to present the religion and let people decide. Unfortunately we see everywhere missionaries using immoral behaviours and exploiting people's weakness. And what made me confused is that this behaviour is done by some religious christians (not uneducated christians) I mean it's supported by some churches.

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
... they try to target kids as well , who cant really be expected to engage them in an intellectual debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I81wqNqPMqc
that's really horrible. I mean even if you're sure you're religion is the right religion, you have not the right to change kids' religion untill they reach an age where they can decide. That's really scary.

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
Its Really very sad to see what Christians have resorted to. No wonder many people are reverting to the only true religion of Islam.
These " missionaries" are just afraid that if Islam spreads they can no longer enjoy their pleasures of having alcohol , pork, prostitution , pornography etc , thats why they attempt to evangelize muslims.
Yes, and I can add that some of these missionaries are just used for political targets, I mean what's that immense desire to guide people ? they're just used to spread their control over the underdeveloped countries like those poor African countries. You know it's more easy for european (and western) governments to "colonize" a "christianized" population rather than a non-christian one whitch is not submitted to the same european culture.
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Supreme
04-21-2010, 09:19 PM
There is nothing wrong with christianity being a missionary religion. The problem is that some christians are doing the missionary job the wrong way. The right way is to present the religion and let people decide. Unfortunately we see everywhere missionaries using immoral behaviours and exploiting people's weakness. And what made me confused is that this behaviour is done by some religious christians (not uneducated christians) I mean it's supported by some churches.
Indeed, and that needs to stop. Christians should present the religion the right way, and not exploit people's weaknesses. I just got the impression from Amadeus' post that he was pointing the finger at Protestants proselytzing badly, when Catholics have massacred people in the past that refused to convert to Christianity.
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Grace Seeker
04-23-2010, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by marwen
There is nothing wrong with christianity being a missionary religion. The problem is that some christians are doing the missionary job the wrong way. The right way is to present the religion and let people decide. Unfortunately we see everywhere missionaries using immoral behaviours and exploiting people's weakness. And what made me confused is that this behaviour is done by some religious christians (not uneducated christians) I mean it's supported by some churches.
You are right, the things your describe of bribery and worse don't promote genuine Christianity, and any missionary who uses such means is actually hurting the cause not helping it. So, it is equally disturbing to me to hear these reports. I can neither explain it nor defend it. I would dispute that it is done by "all" missionaries, for I know some personally who are serving in Africa and their missionary efforts consist of flying planes with supplies and people that serve already existing churches into remote areas of the Congo unaccessible by ground transport. I know another couple who are engage in translation of the Bible into languages in which it is not yet available. These folks are not engaged in proselytizing of any type accept for those neighbors they become friends with over time.

But the reports of these other forms of endeavors are made often enough here that I don't doubt that some of this does go on and it saddens me, for such does NOT build up the kingdom of God. And that is what I give my missionary dollars to support, not forced, fake, or falsified evangelism. Can you identify the names of the organizations these so-called missionaries claim to represent? I want to know if I might be contributing to them unawares.


they're just used to spread their control over the underdeveloped countries like those poor African countries. You know it's more easy for european (and western) governments to "colonize" a "christianized" population rather than a non-christian one whitch is not submitted to the same european culture.
That may be so, but that is distrubing for me as a western Christian as well. For I know that our western governments are in fact most definitely not Christian. And when those in power do occassionally cloak themselves in the garment of religion, it is usually for an end that is decidely unChristian in nature. So, if these supposed missionary efforts of which you complain are being driven by political motives rather than misplaced relgious ones, that is actually doubly distrubing.
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marwen
04-23-2010, 06:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
But the reports of these other forms of endeavors are made often enough here that I don't doubt that some of this does go on and it saddens me, for such does NOT build up the kingdom of God. And that is what I give my missionary dollars to support, not forced, fake, or falsified evangelism. Can you identify the names of the organizations these so-called missionaries claim to represent? I want to know if I might be contributing to them unawares.
I'm happy because there is a lot of christians like you who don't agree with these "extreme" ways of doing missionary work. Concerning the organizations supporting this, I don't really have accurate information about there names, and I don't want to accuse a specific christian sect. But from my own experience here in north Africa, I think the most of them belong to the Protestant Church (check out this thread, Sorry for the caricatures). I don't mean they represent all the protestants, and I'm not saying it's just Protestants who do this, because it's a general behaviour I hear about every day.

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
That may be so, but that is distrubing for me as a western Christian as well. For I know that our western governments are in fact most definitely not Christian. And when those in power do occassionally cloak themselves in the garment of religion, it is usually for an end that is decidely unChristian in nature. So, if these supposed missionary efforts of which you complain are being driven by political motives rather than misplaced relgious ones, that is actually doubly distrubing.
But governments don't have to be religious to use religion. I'm not affirming this, but if the motives were really religious, these missionaries would use more "Christian" manners. Religion recommands to advice people about what we see is truth, not to invade them. I just feel some political intentions here. I may be wrong.
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KAding
04-23-2010, 07:14 PM
Missionaries that do this (which I suppose is only a small minority) are out to 'save' these people. Saving people from ****ation is the core business of missionaries, why would they not use money to save even one human being? Surely saving one person is almost priceless? I would assume they think the end justify the means? From a religious perspective, surely that makes perfect sense? Heck, isn't Zakat also supposed to be used to "attract the hearts of those who have been inclined towards Islam"?
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marwen
04-23-2010, 07:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Heck, isn't Zakat also supposed to be used to "attract the hearts of those who have been inclined towards Islam"?
Good point KAding ! Yes, some money collected from Zakat can be used to make people inclined towards Islam ("Al mo'Allafati qulobohom" in qur'an) . But that's different: Islam doesn't make the condition of entering in Islam to get this help. It's just to show non-muslims that Islam is a religion of mercy and kindness, and then it's up to them to be muslim or not, and if they don't decide to not enter in Islam, they are free and we still help them.
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جوري
04-23-2010, 07:45 PM
since zakat differs from sadaqah in that it is given to Muslims only, I don't see how it is used to attract kaffirs to Islam? and sadaqah should be done so that your left hand doesn't know what is in your right so how can that be used to lure anyone to Islam?

Not the same thing.. further how can you get a sincere conversion with a bribe? do you think god cares for the number of rucks you have collected in his name if their hearts haven't accepted faith?
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Ramadhan
04-24-2010, 02:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Missionaries that do this (which I suppose is only a small minority) are out to 'save' these people. Saving people from ****ation is the core business of missionaries, why would they not use money to save even one human being? Surely saving one person is almost priceless? I would assume they think the end justify the means? From a religious perspective, surely that makes perfect sense? Heck, isn't Zakat also supposed to be used to "attract the hearts of those who have been inclined towards Islam"?
Obviously you haven't seen any missionaries in action in third world or underdeveloped countries.
They spread lies against Islam and the prophet Muhammad SAW, and even lies against their own theology just because the core of their theology is so absurd.
Here in Indonesia christian missionaries use aid as a condition for reversion.

which is abominable.
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ardianto
04-24-2010, 02:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Here in Indonesia christian missionaries use aid as a condition for reversion.
Their aid : 1 pouch of cooking oil, 12 packs instant noodle, 2 Kg wheat flour. for a family.
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Grace Seeker
04-24-2010, 04:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
Missionaries that do this (which I suppose is only a small minority) are out to 'save' these people. Saving people from ****ation is the core business of missionaries, why would they not use money to save even one human being? Surely saving one person is almost priceless? I would assume they think the end justify the means? From a religious perspective, surely that makes perfect sense? Heck, isn't Zakat also supposed to be used to "attract the hearts of those who have been inclined towards Islam"?

It is certainly worth spending money to save souls. My concern is that I doubt that bribing people to convert is good use of such money. I doubt that anyone who converts as a result of a bribe is truly saved, since it isn't one's name on a dotted line that save a person, but if the individual "believes in one heart and confesses with one's lips" that one is saved. These people may be confessing with their lips in order to get money, but unless they are truly believing in their heart they aren't any more saved than they were before taking the money. Now, I don't blame poor people for taking money when it is offered to them, I blame those who offer it on no better terms than to get someone to say a particular prayer (be it the "sinners prayer" or the Shahada) because they, erroneously in my opinion, think that doing so means something either for the individual or is some sort of feather in their own cap. Unless the heart means what is being said, nothing has changed beyond dollars changing hands.
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Pygoscelis
04-24-2010, 05:23 AM
The primary problem with religion is the tribalism (us vs them mentality) it creates, and this sort of missionary is one of the nastiest examples of it. You'll also find "good christian" charities that will only help those who will convert. I don't know if muslims have a similar thing going on regarding chartity, but I have seen a number of times muslims supporting other muslims over non-muslims even when they are clearly in the wrong.
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KAding
04-24-2010, 09:19 AM
I have to say, though, that I don't know how anyone could ever be bribed into conversion? I mean, you could give me a billion dollars, but I still wouldn't be able to start believing in God, let alone a particular religion. It just doesn't work that way, at least not in my head! What I could do though, is pretend I'm an adherent of the religion I was bribed by. But in that case, it isn't 'real', so what are you accomplishing?
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Supreme
04-24-2010, 11:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
I have to say, though, that I don't know how anyone could ever be bribed into conversion? I mean, you could give me a billion dollars, but I still wouldn't be able to start believing in God, let alone a particular religion. It just doesn't work that way, at least not in my head! What I could do though, is pretend I'm an adherent of the religion I was bribed by. But in that case, it isn't 'real', so what are you accomplishing?
It's good on paper for demographics- every religion likes to claim its got a large of followers, but that actually doesn't mean anything, when those adherents have been bribed, forcefully converted, or threatened with death if they choose to convert to another religion.
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aadil77
04-24-2010, 11:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
It's good on paper for demographics- every religion likes to claim its got a large of followers, but that actually doesn't mean anything, when those adherents have been bribed, forcefully converted, or threatened with death if they choose to convert to another religion.
Exactly those people aren't true believers
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Grace Seeker
04-24-2010, 03:41 PM
Seems we've got universal agreement from Christians, Muslims, and those with no religious beliefs of both the impropriety and futility of anyone who would think that a bribed conversion is of any purpose. Makes one wonder why those who engage in the practice do it?
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Ramadhan
04-24-2010, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Seems we've got universal agreement from Christians, Muslims, and those with no religious beliefs of both the impropriety and futility of anyone who would think that a bribed conversion is of any purpose. Makes one wonder why those who engage in the practice do it?
Maybe you can ask your missionaries friends who work in thirld world or underdeveloped countries why they do it?
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Grace Seeker
04-24-2010, 09:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Maybe you can ask your missionaries friends who work in thirld world or underdeveloped countries why they do it?
I've already shared what those missionaries I know do, and it doesn't correspond with these behaviors we all malign. I know a few local churches that bribe kids to get them to ride the church bus on Sunday morning -- things like candy underneath the seat. They do it to increase their numbers and with the hopes that a child they are able to reach that othewsie wouldn't attend will one day come to saving faith. But even then, they realize that such activities only get them in the door to share the gospel, and that conversion is another thing entirely. So, I don't have contact with any people who are doing what is described here to ask.
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aadil77
04-24-2010, 10:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I've already shared what those missionaries I know do, and it doesn't correspond with these behaviors we all malign. I know a few local churches that bribe kids to get them to ride the church bus on Sunday morning -- things like candy underneath the seat. They do it to increase their numbers and with the hopes that a child they are able to reach that othewsie wouldn't attend will one day come to saving faith. But even then, they realize that such activities only get them in the door to share the gospel, and that conversion is another thing entirely. So, I don't have contact with any people who are doing what is described here to ask.
lol thanks for being open enough to share that, I can understand encouraging kids but not bribing them, I can't think of anything similar in masjids or madrasas - its usually just parents who choose to send kids or not
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ardianto
04-25-2010, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Maybe you can ask your missionaries friends who work in thirld world or underdeveloped countries why they do it?
There were some cases when those Christian missionaries pretend or act as Muslims and invite real Muslims to discuss about Islam. Then slowly they try to make real Muslims doubt to Islam.
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Woodrow
04-25-2010, 04:27 PM
Some of those "Missionary" tactics have been used on the reservations here. the end result is there are very many abandoned churches on the Reservations. While many of the Oglala on Pine Ridge claim to be Christian the majority still practice the old native religions. As soon as the Missionaries believe they have converted a clan and leave, the church is abandoned. I will give some credit to 2 Christian groups that do bonafide charity on Pine Ridge and do so without attempting to convert, those are the Lutherans and Methodists. Typically they will set up the donation and collection sites in Sioux Falls or Brookings 300 miles away and have the goods delivered to Pine ridge by Lakotah residents with no mention of religion. It is charity with no strings attached. The recipients receive the goods anonymously and with no restrictions or conditions involved. If I did not get involved with delivering some donations to Pine Ridge last year, I never would have known the source of the donations. The recipients were cold and hungry, they wanted their pain eased and had no need to get a talk about where the food and blankets came from.
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Grace Seeker
04-25-2010, 08:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I will give some credit to 2 Christian groups that do bonafide charity on Pine Ridge and do so without attempting to convert, those are the Lutherans and Methodists.
And see, these are the groups that I know. I grew up in the Methodist Church, and have been a United Methodist pastor for 28 years. Plus, for 4 years of that time, I served a Lutheran congregation. And while I can point to plenty of problems with both churches, missionaries bribing people is not a story I am familiar with inside either denomination.

Indeed, my only knowledge of United Methodist contact with Muslims came when my (AFS exchange) daughter Asli came to live with us. Just a few years before her community had been hit hard by a terrible earthquake and she had lost her home. The first emergency housing they had were tents with the name UMCOR stampped on the boxes they came out of. She knew this because her father was the mayor in the town, and thus it was through him that the tents were distributed. She had know idea what UMCOR meant or was about until we were talking about it one day and she said that she just knew it had something to do with a church in the USA. Well, I was able to tell her that UMCOR was a part of my United Methodist Church and stood for United Methodist Committee on Relief. Until that moment in our house, she had never meant anyone who could even make the connection for her.

UMCOR is involved in many places around the world doing both emergency relief efforts and long term efforts to make life more sustainable. And in those cases of long-term aid, we do not hesistate to share the gospel as we do our other ministries. But never is there the attempt to "buy" Christian conversions. As you point out Woodrow, unless the people are genuine in desiring to live as a Christian, they will eventually abandon it. So, we do the work, love the people and (where we have ongoing relationships) share the gospel. But to my knowledge (though I admit I have never been to Africa), never do we engage in the sort of subtrefuge that Marwen asked about at the beginning of this thread.
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Woodrow
04-25-2010, 08:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
And see, these are the groups that I know. I grew up in the Methodist Church, and have been a United Methodist pastor for 28 years. Plus, for 4 years of that time, I served a Lutheran congregation. And while I can point to plenty of problems with both churches, missionaries bribing people is not a story I am familiar with inside either denomination.

Indeed, my only knowledge of United Methodist contact with Muslims came when my (AFS exchange) daughter Asli came to live with us. Just a few years before her community had been hit hard by a terrible earthquake and she had lost her home. The first emergency housing they had were tents with the name UMCOR stampped on the boxes they came out of. She knew this because her father was the mayor in the town, and thus it was through him that the tents were distributed. She had know idea what UMCOR meant or was about until we were talking about it one day and she said that she just knew it had something to do with a church in the USA. Well, I was able to tell her that UMCOR was a part of my United Methodist Church and stood for United Methodist Committee on Relief. Until that moment in our house, she had never meant anyone who could even make the connection for her.

UMCOR is involved in many places around the world doing both emergency relief efforts and long term efforts to make life more sustainable. And in those cases of long-term aid, we do not hesistate to share the gospel as we do our other ministries. But never is there the attempt to "buy" Christian conversions. As you point out Woodrow, unless the people are genuine in desiring to live as a Christian, they will eventually abandon it. So, we do the work, love the people and (where we have ongoing relationships) share the gospel. But to my knowledge (though I admit I have never been to Africa), never do we engage in the sort of subtrefuge that Marwen asked about at the beginning of this thread.
Peace Gene,

I do appreciate those who do genuine charity without using disaster as an opportunity to bribe potential members.

Sadly I have run into many of the other type out here on the reservations and in Africa and at one point I was one. It is not only an obnoxious act it serves no purpose and can actually turn people against God(swt). I find this to be mostly a practice of the non organized independent churches. Although I know of some instances when some main stream churches resorted to it.
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glo
04-27-2010, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Peace Gene,

I do appreciate those who do genuine charity without using disaster as an opportunity to bribe potential members.

Sadly I have run into many of the other type out here on the reservations and in Africa and at one point I was one. It is not only an obnoxious act it serves no purpose and can actually turn people against God(swt). I find this to be mostly a practice of the non organized independent churches. Although I know of some instances when some main stream churches resorted to it.
I think this raises the interesting question as to when it is or isn't appropriate to talk to people about one's faith.

For example, when giving out food parcels, would it be appropriate to say "We want you to have this because we follow the example of Jesus/Muhammad"? Would it be appropriate to add a Bible or Qu'ran verse to the food parcel, or an invitation to church/mosque (without any pressure added)?

Woodrow, when you visit people in the Reservation, how do you gauge when and if to talk about Islam?
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nousername
04-28-2010, 01:39 AM
The Mormon church in my city have targeted my family. The first time they came, I told them we are Muslims (my family) and they gave me some pamplets anyway. They just came a second time and this time they gave me more pamplets and said " Here, this will show you that the Bible is not man-made". It's really annoying
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islamirama
04-28-2010, 04:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nousername
The Mormon church in my city have targeted my family. The first time they came, I told them we are Muslims (my family) and they gave me some pamplets anyway. They just came a second time and this time they gave me more pamplets and said " Here, this will show you that the Bible is not man-made". It's really annoying
At that point i would rip it up and throw it on the ground and tell them the original Torah, Psalms, and Gospels were from God and the bible they hold is from Paul and tell them to stop harassing my family or is that what their bible paul teaches them followed by closing the door on them.
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Woodrow
04-28-2010, 06:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Woodrow, when you visit people in the Reservation, how do you gauge when and if to talk about Islam?
I can almost guarantee that within 5 minutes after stepping out of the car anyplace on Pine Ridge, somebody will ask me about my religious beliefs. My wife and myself do dress in accordance with Sunnah where ever we go. Usually the first question we get is something like "What kind of people are you?" When we answer we are Muslim, the questions come non-stop.

I recall one time we went way far off the normal "Tourist Path" in order to take pictures of Bison and a group of about 5 or 6 young men approached us from out of no where. Many on the Rez refuse to speak English, especially to strangers. I greeted them with "Hau Koda" they were very surprised to discover that I spoke at least a little Lakotah. Very soon we got into a long discussion about why I dress the way I do. It was quite interesting as the young men were dressed in traditional Sioux ceremonial clothing. They had just come from a tribal Wacipi.

The clothing of both of us became a source of conversation they also felt very comfortable talking with us as they recognized my wife was Native American and very pleased when I told them she is Cheyenne. Sioux men will not look directly at or speak to non-relative females. They were very happy to know she was content to sit in the car away from us while we spoke. All of this became part of our speaking to each other and before we knew it we had spent about an hour and a half talking about Islam. I didn't get any pictures of Bison, but I did make a least 2 good friends, who wanted to know more and ended up visiting the Mosque in Rapid City for a few months and are now Muslim.
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aadil77
04-28-2010, 06:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nousername
The Mormon church in my city have targeted my family. The first time they came, I told them we are Muslims (my family) and they gave me some pamplets anyway. They just came a second time and this time they gave me more pamplets and said " Here, this will show you that the Bible is not man-made". It's really annoying
Brother if they do that, turn the tables on them, its a perfect opportunity for dawah, invite them in and give them a copy of english quran translation, if they are persistent and annoying then I would just refute the hell out of christianity and see what they say

I've had jehovas witness's come to my house before, they offered me those leaflets, I said I'll accept these if you come round later and listen to what my religion has to say, they even agreed to it but didn't turn up. After that I've never had any jehovas witness's come to my house again.
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aadil77
04-28-2010, 07:07 AM
SubhanAllah brother woodrow, May Allah bless you for you efforts in dawah

It seems people from simple backgrounds who have very similar moral and character/mannerism teachings in their beliefs/culture are more inclined to islam, would you agree?
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Woodrow
04-28-2010, 07:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by nousername
The Mormon church in my city have targeted my family. The first time they came, I told them we are Muslims (my family) and they gave me some pamplets anyway. They just came a second time and this time they gave me more pamplets and said " Here, this will show you that the Bible is not man-made". It's really annoying
:sl:

Interesting, sounds more like JWs than Mormons. My wife was Mormon before reverting and when she was Mormon she did not believe the Bible alone was the word of God. She used to read the "Book of Mormon" and was taught that contained what was lost in the Bible.

Sounds like the Mormon's in your area are now trying a new approach. Typically Mormons leave pamphlets about the "Book of Mormon" and a copy of it. But I do agree Mormon's can be quite pushy. If I understand correctly each Mormon male has to spend part of his life as a "Missionary" and must remain as such until they convert a quota of people.
Reply

Woodrow
04-28-2010, 07:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
SubhanAllah brother woodrow, May Allah bless you for you efforts in dawah

It seems people from simple backgrounds who have very similar moral and character/mannerism teachings in their beliefs/culture are more inclined to islam, would you agree?
I do agree. I find the traditional culture of the Oglala Sioux to be based upon the same moral values that Islam teaches. The modesty regarding clothing and mingling of genders is very much the same. The old traditional ways do not allow for free mixing of genders. The love of all the gifts of Allaah(swt) is very admirable. To them all of life is a prayer, each thought and action. Islam seems to be the natural choice for them when they understand it. I see very little in the traditional culture that is forbidden in Islam. Islam enhances and adds to what they already have. It is sort of like saying that the traditional culture is already 98% of the way to Islam, one or 2 more steps and they are Muslim.

The more I interact with Native Americans especially the Lakotah Tribes (those who speak Lakotah which includes all the Sioux Nation along with the Cheyenne, Arapaho and Crow), The Cherokee and the Ojibwa the more I believe that at one time they had been Muslim and had lost part of what they were originally taught.

I find that while many of the Lakotah publically profess to be Christian, in private they return to the ancient beliefs and speak of hatred against all Wasichu (Wasichu while literally meaning whiteman actually refers to any who do not worship Wakan Tanka alone) Often when I speak about Allaah(swt) I am told it sounds like I am talking about the same one God they call Wakan Tanka. Wakan Tanka translates into English as God(swt)
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Pygoscelis
04-28-2010, 01:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Brother if they do that, turn the tables on them, its a perfect opportunity for dawah, invite them in and give them a copy of english quran translation, if they are persistent and annoying then I would just refute the hell out of christianity and see what they say

I've had jehovas witness's come to my house before, they offered me those leaflets, I said I'll accept these if you come round later and listen to what my religion has to say, they even agreed to it but didn't turn up. After that I've never had any jehovas witness's come to my house again.
This the best way to get rid of both mormons and jehovas witnesses. Do some homework first. Learn their beliefs and then start questioning them. Ask Jehovas Witnesses about blood transfusions and poke lots of holes in the bible stories (which is really easy if you read them - most jehovas witnesses beleive it or not have not read them for themselves in the original or near-original script). Ask the mormon about magic underwear, etc. If they keep coming after that, I'd start hitting on the same-sex ones or answering the door in the nude. That'll get rid of them.
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aadil77
04-28-2010, 01:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
This the best way to get rid of both mormons and jehovas witnesses. Do some homework first. Learn their beliefs and then start questioning them. Ask Jehovas Witnesses about blood transfusions and poke lots of holes in the bible stories (which is really easy if you read them - most jehovas witnesses beleive it or not have not read them for themselves in the original or near-original script). Ask the mormon about magic underwear, etc. If they keep coming after that, I'd start hitting on the same-sex ones or answering the door in the nude. That'll get rid of them.
'magic underwear' are you serious?, when I hear the word 'mormon' I already have this image of little elves and dwarfs from fantasy land turning up at my door

Bible stories ares are an easy way though
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Pygoscelis
04-28-2010, 02:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
'magic underwear' are you serious?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eNjT...layer_embedded
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Supreme
04-28-2010, 03:36 PM
Jehovahs Witnesses are the laughing stock of Christianity. I don't hate them, I just find immense fault in their beliefs. They're also the closest thing religion has to a doorstep salesman. They always used to come for a cup of coffee with my father- he was ever so kind, despite his atheist beliefs and urge to throw them out.
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glo
04-28-2010, 04:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I can almost guarantee that within 5 minutes after stepping out of the car anyplace on Pine Ridge, somebody will ask me about my religious beliefs. My wife and myself do dress in accordance with Sunnah where ever we go. Usually the first question we get is something like "What kind of people are you?" When we answer we are Muslim, the questions come non-stop.

I recall one time we went way far off the normal "Tourist Path" in order to take pictures of Bison and a group of about 5 or 6 young men approached us from out of no where. Many on the Rez refuse to speak English, especially to strangers. I greeted them with "Hau Koda" they were very surprised to discover that I spoke at least a little Lakotah. Very soon we got into a long discussion about why I dress the way I do. It was quite interesting as the young men were dressed in traditional Sioux ceremonial clothing. They had just come from a tribal Wacipi.

The clothing of both of us became a source of conversation they also felt very comfortable talking with us as they recognized my wife was Native American and very pleased when I told them she is Cheyenne. Sioux men will not look directly at or speak to non-relative females. They were very happy to know she was content to sit in the car away from us while we spoke. All of this became part of our speaking to each other and before we knew it we had spent about an hour and a half talking about Islam. I didn't get any pictures of Bison, but I did make a least 2 good friends, who wanted to know more and ended up visiting the Mosque in Rapid City for a few months and are now Muslim.
Thanks for sharing, Woodrow. Your stories are always interesting. :)

Would you say that it is only appropriate to talk about your faith, when others have approached you and asked you about it?
Would you volunteer information about Islam to people who have not specifically asked about it?
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Woodrow
04-28-2010, 07:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
Thanks for sharing, Woodrow. Your stories are always interesting. :)

Would you say that it is only appropriate to talk about your faith, when others have approached you and asked you about it?
Would you volunteer information about Islam to people who have not specifically asked about it?
For myself I will only discuss Islam with those who ask me about it. Partially because I know any other approach is useless among Native American Lakotah who have a very strong hatred of anybody they view as being Evangelical. The Lakotah suffered greatly at the hands of Missionaries and their culture was nearly destroyed, even their language was almost lost.
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glo
04-28-2010, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
For myself I will only discuss Islam with those who ask me about it. Partially because I know any other approach is useless among Native American Lakotah who have a very strong hatred of anybody they view as being Evangelical. The Lakotah suffered greatly at the hands of Missionaries and their culture was nearly destroyed, even their language was almost lost.
It's a terrible thing how many cultures have been nearly or completely wiped out in a misguided desire of those who thought themselves 'superior' to bring something better to those who they perceived as 'uneducated' or 'inferior'. imsad



I also tend to only speak about my faith to people who ask about it.

It's an interesting thought that you Islamic dress itself is a conversation opener.
I guess that's an advantage I don't have as a Christian. :)
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Woodrow
04-28-2010, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
It's a terrible thing how many cultures have been nearly or completely wiped out in a misguided desire of those who thought themselves 'superior' to bring something better to those who they perceived as 'uneducated' or 'inferior'. imsad



I also tend to only speak about my faith to people who ask about it.

It's an interesting thought that you Islamic dress itself is a conversation opener.
I guess that's an advantage I don't have as a Christian. :)
It is strange that it would be as my sunnah clothing is very similar to the traditional Sioux Clothing. Except for the head wear. I do not as much as raise an eyebrow when I am in the Wal-mart in Rapid City, which is predominately European heritage. But, on the Rez my clothing is definitely a conversation opener.
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Grace Seeker
04-29-2010, 02:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
It is strange that it would be as my sunnah clothing is very similar to the traditional Sioux Clothing. Except for the head wear. I do not as much as raise an eyebrow when I am in the Wal-mart in Rapid City, which is predominately European heritage. But, on the Rez my clothing is definitely a conversation opener.
I would suspect that it may have to do with familiarity with the clothing. In Rapid City, to see someone in the traditional Sioux clothing would not be unusual, but they also would not be intimately familiar with it in the same way that the Sioux who actually wear it would be. So, they would notice, but not pay it any special attention. However, on the reservation, while you would appear in somewhat similar clothing, they can probably instantly tell the difference and so you become a curiousity.

Don't really know. Just a thought.
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Woodrow
04-29-2010, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I would suspect that it may have to do with familiarity with the clothing. In Rapid City, to see someone in the traditional Sioux clothing would not be unusual, but they also would not be intimately familiar with it in the same way that the Sioux who actually wear it would be. So, they would notice, but not pay it any special attention. However, on the reservation, while you would appear in somewhat similar clothing, they can probably instantly tell the difference and so you become a curiousity.

Don't really know. Just a thought.
I had not thought about it. But, I believe you are correct. That makes sense. You are correct to a non-Native my clothing would appear to be Native American, while it would obviously not be NA to those who are knowledgeable of traditional Sioux Clothing.
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glo
05-02-2010, 02:28 PM
On the topic of this thread, I was listening to a radio programme today during which the bishop of the Chaldean Church in Iraq spoke about the situation of Christians in Iraq.
Apparently, before the invasion of Iraq by allied forces, 3% of the population were Christians, living pretty peacefully in this Muslim country - today many Christians have fled the country or live as refugees, and attacks against Christians are common-place.

The bishop spoke very scathingly about the many evangelical missionaries (mostly from the US), who came into Iraq in the wake of the invasion to make converts. He explained that many were completely ignorant about the delicate and sensitive relationship between Muslims and Christians, and that their insensitive and heavy-handed approach had added much to the already growing tensions in the country. imsad

I thought it was interesting to hear that thought expressed by an Iraqi Christian too.
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Supreme
05-02-2010, 04:23 PM
Indeed. Saddam also had one or two Christians in some very powerful places in government. The missonaries from the West are not only insulting the Muslims, they are also insulting the Christians- Iraqi Christians are mostly Orthodox Christians, and the form of Christianity brought by the missonaries is the entirely different Protestant Christianity.
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Danah
05-03-2010, 01:37 PM
Interesting Topic.

I was told that when the some gulf countries were occupied by the British government 50 years ago there used to be such attempts to convert the poor locals who were in a dire need for food and health care.

Few years ago, I heard that one of the old schools that was established by the British government during the occupation period used a very pathetic attempts to brainwash the kids minds:
The teacher holds a basket full of sweets and going around the kids asking them who you love more? Mohammad or Jesus?
whoever said Jesus she give him one piece of sweets, whoever said Mohammad she passed by him giving him nothing, so they has to change their words to get their share of sweets!


One more thing that need to be mentioned here, is that the organization called "Doctors Without Borders" is indeed a missionary organization who has some activities in converting people in some poor countries in the middle east like Yemen & Sudan and many other poor African countries.

format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
There were some cases when those Christian missionaries pretend or act as Muslims and invite real Muslims to discuss about Islam. Then slowly they try to make real Muslims doubt to Islam.
That is very true, especially in the Cyberspace!
I have even heard that some do pretend that they are scholars with some few information about Islam they memorized then they start giving Muslims ambiguous answers to shake their belief in Islam.

So they came in all shapes!!
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glo
05-03-2010, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
One more thing that need to be mentioned here, is that the organization called "Doctors Without Borders" is indeed a missionary organization who has some activities in converting people in some poor countries in the middle east like Yemen & Sudan and many other poor African countries.
You might want to check that.

As I understand, Médecins Sans Frontières (also known as "Doctors Without Borders") is a secular charity, not a Christian one. It has no religious affiliations at all.

Here is their charter:
Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is a private international association. The association is made up mainly of doctors and health sector workers and is also open to all other professions which might help in achieving its aims. All of its members agree to honor the following principles:

Médecins Sans Frontières provides assistance to populations in distress, to victims of natural or man-made disasters and to victims of armed conflict. They do so irrespective of race, religion, creed or political convictions.

Médecins Sans Frontières observes neutrality and impartiality in the name of universal medical ethics and the right to humanitarian assistance and claims full and unhindered freedom in the exercise of its functions.

Members undertake to respect their professional code of ethics and to maintain complete independence from all political, economic or religious powers.

As volunteers, members understand the risks and dangers of the missions they carry out and make no claim for themselves or their assigns for any form of compensation other than that which the association might be able to afford them.
http://www.msf.org.uk/about_charter.aspx

Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) do an amazing job providing medical care in the developing world.
It would be a great shame if they lost financial support, because rumours are being spread about their practices! :hmm:

At the same time, if individuals do act against the charity's charter, it would be most helpful to make a complaint directly to the charity. It is in their interest to ensure that their members follow the rules appropriately.

Here is some more information about the work of Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
Personally, it is a charity I greatly admire!
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Danah
05-03-2010, 08:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
You might want to check that.

As I understand, Médecins Sans Frontières (also known as "Doctors Without Borders") is a secular charity, not a Christian one. It has no religious affiliations at all.

Here is their charter:

http://www.msf.org.uk/about_charter.aspx

Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) do an amazing job providing medical care in the developing world.
It would be a great shame if they lost financial support, because rumours are being spread about their practices! :hmm:

At the same time, if individuals do act against the charity's charter, it would be most helpful to make a complaint directly to the charity. It is in their interest to ensure that their members follow the rules appropriately.

Here is some more information about the work of Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).
Personally, it is a charity I greatly admire!
I hope that is true, but I read about the missionaries activities in Yemen and it mentioned that the MSF worked to convert some poor families in Eden while they working there.
Reply

Danah
05-06-2010, 02:36 PM
2 days before the upgrade I was trying to post this post and when I noticed that there was something wrong with the forum I saved the last page of this thread along with Woodrow last post which I needed to comment on. So here we are, I guess his post was deleted by the upgrade

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I know a few Doctors that have worked as volunteers for MSF. In fact all except one of the Muslim Doctors, I personally know, living in the USA have done so. I suspect if that is being done in Yemen it is not by MSF but by unscrupulous people fraudulently saying they are MSF,

It also seems that MSF has suspended any work in Yemen since May 10, 2008. SEE HERE
Here is the article I read about the missionaries activities in Yemen. The dates that were mentioned there are all before 2000, I have no idea whether they were still doing the same after 2000 till 2008.
and Here you will find their activities in Chad, and in both articles the MSF was mentioned there. Allah knows if that is true or not, all what we have is the information we read after all.

Both articles are in Arabic by the way.

On an opposite note some of the Evangelical groups are against MSF because they believe it is spreading Islam: HERE
I couldn't open the site, can you please copy and paste the related article here? JazakAllah khair in advance, I am interested in this issue.
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glo
05-06-2010, 02:45 PM
Hi Danah
I also saved my response a couple of days ago, when I was unable to post it up. :)
Here it is:

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
I know a few Doctors that have worked as volunteers for MSF. In fact all except one of the Muslim Doctors, I personally know, living in the USA have done so. I suspect if that is being done in Yemen it is not by MSF but by unscrupulous people fraudulently saying they are MSF,
Thank you for offering a balanced view on this, Woodrow.

It is so frustrating when a charity which provides such much needed medical care in areas which are desperate becomes caught up in some controversy because of people who are following their own agenda! :heated:

That way people who need medical helps may choose not to take it for fear of 'being converted to Christianity'; and people who could give financial support may choose not to for fear of 'helping to spread Islam'!

Why can we not just provide help and care for those is need?
Isn't that what our religions teach??!
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Danah
05-06-2010, 02:58 PM
^ lol I guess members became more cautious with upgrades these days.

I have heard that MSF were coming here in the Gulf areas and offer some lectures about their activities, I remember too that they came in our school when I was a kid


EDIT: @ glo, just read your repl now, can't rep you back, but yeah...we should be always on our guard :statisfie
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glo
05-06-2010, 03:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
^ lol I guess members became more cautious with upgrades these days.
Haha! yes, As they say, once bitten, twice shy! :D

I have heard that MSF were coming here in the Gulf areas and offer some lectures about their activities, I remember too that they came in our school when I was a kid
You know more about them than I do then.

I would love to work for a charity like that! (Well, if I didn't have a husband and children, that is ...) It must be an amazing experience for the medical teams!

But I guess we can help people wherever we are - here and now, on our own doorstep!
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ardianto
05-06-2010, 05:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
I hope that is true, but I read about the missionaries activities in Yemen and it mentioned that the MSF worked to convert some poor families in Eden while they working there.
There are two MSF.

First : Medecins Sans Frontieres. (Doctor without border). Voluntary paramedic organization.

Second : Missionarii a Sacra Familia. A Catholic organization.

Can you guess, which MSF that try to convert Muslim people ?.
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ardianto
05-06-2010, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
I hope that is true, but I read about the missionaries activities in Yemen and it mentioned that the MSF worked to convert some poor families in Eden while they working there.
There are two MSF.

First : Medecins Sans Frontieres. (Doctor without border). Voluntary paramedic organization.

Second : Missionarii a Sacra Familia. A Catholic organization.


Can you guess, which MSF that try to convert Muslim people ?.
Reply

Woodrow
05-06-2010, 06:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
2 days before the upgrade I was trying to post this post and when I noticed that there was something wrong with the forum I saved the last page of this thread along with Woodrow last post which I needed to comment on. So here we are, I guess his post was deleted by the upgrade



Here is the article I read about the missionaries activities in Yemen. The dates that were mentioned there are all before 2000, I have no idea whether they were still doing the same after 2000 till 2008.
and Here you will find their activities in Chad, and in both articles the MSF was mentioned there. Allah knows if that is true or not, all what we have is the information we read after all.

Both articles are in Arabic by the way.

I couldn't open the site, can you please copy and paste the related article here? JazakAllah khair in advance, I am interested in this issue.
:sl:

Here is the Printable format of the article cut and pasted from the site:

This item is available on the Militant Islam Monitor website, at http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/388
Medicins sans Frontieres- Doctors without Borders - funded by anti American -anti semitic UAE Zayed Center

January 20, 2005

MIM: The United States should halt any aid which is being given to the group Medicins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders), on the grounds that it is going to help those who are inciting against the United States and aiding Islamists and neo Nazis to propagandize against the US and Israel with the help of the Zayed Center. http://www.msf.org/

The organisation is being funded by the Zayed Center for Coordination and Followup which was directed by the recently deceased Prince Sultan bin Nahayan. The ZFCF specialised in Holocaust denial and blood libel. The website was shut down in 2002 after the United States protested to the UAE . Several American politicans had also been featured speakers at the ZFCF. In 2003 Harvard University's School of Divinity was forced to return a 2.5 million dollar donation made by the Zayed Center to fund an Islamic Studies Chair, after the Islamo facist agenda of the Zayed Center was revealed and thousands of peoples signed a petition urging Harvard to return the 'tainted money'. The original website offering blood libel and Holocaust denial 'litter'ature was closed down but resurfaced in a different format.Last August Harvard announced that they would return the donation. .http://www.gm-unccd.org/FIELD/Multi/...yen/OP_Zay.htm Last August Harvard announced that they would return the donation. (See below for articles about the Harvard controversy). http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1231

For years Medicins sans Frontieres has never missed an opportunity to denounce Israel or the United States to the media. The fact that they are being funded by the ZFCF shows that they are in fact a mouthpiece of their UAE handlers. http://www.gm-unccd.org/FIELD/Multi/...n/Resource.htm

In a picture taken at the Zayed Center HQ Rony Brauman is seated together with Zayed director Khalifa Al Murrar, and Hans Koechler, the Austrian director of the IPO, the International Progress Institute. The IPO is engaged in an anti Israel and anti American campaign and Koechler, who was personally appointed by Kofi Anan to be a monitor at the Lockerbee trial. Koechler, who is a friend of Ghaddafi, protested the verdict,which convicted a Libyan of the bombing which killed all the passengers on board when it blew up over Lockerbie Scotland. Koechler claimed that the trial 'had been rigged by the United States'. http://i-p-o.org/koechler-lockerbie-...nt-aug2003.htm

Sheik Nahayan's donation to 'humanitarian terrorism' reflects the abysmal human rights record of his own country.

"..• As ruler of the United Arab Emirates, Zayed is responsible for his nation's shameful human rights record, which includes, according to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, corporal punishment of dissidents and dictatorial governance – Zayed has ruled as the UAE's unelected president since 1971. In addition, his regime has been cited for the use of child slave labor in the camel racing industry, abuse of domestic servants, and racial discrimination against foreign workers..." http://www.petitiononline.com/zayedno/petition.html

. No wonder that in the eyes of MSF/DWB founder and director of research Rony Brauman, "there is always an ulterior motive to the peace keeping efforts of certain superpowers". The old saying of 'physician heal thyself rings perversely ironic in the case of the Zayed Center funding for the Medicins Sans Frontieres/Doctors without Borders.It's hard to imagine that the DWB could heal themselves or anyone else when their own organisation is tainted to the core by purveyors of blood libel,Holocaust denial,slavery and corporal punishment.

MIM 2005



Professor Hans Koechler, President of the International Progress Organization (center), at the opening session of the conference on "War Victims and International Law" at the Zayed Center for Coordination & Follow-up, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, 15 July 2002. Left: Mr. Mohammed Khalifa Al-Murrar, Executive Director of the Zayed Center; right: Mr. Rony Brauman, Founder of Médecins sans frontières. http://i-p-o.org/zayed-center.htm

----------------------

MIM: The MSF has UAE website and it's policies appear to be directed by the UAE.

http://www.msfuae.ae/

MSF-UAE is a part of the international network of volunteers. It was established in UAE in 1995 under the patronage of H.H.Sheik Nahyan Bin Mubarak Al Nahyan, minister of higher education and scientific research.

UAE Head Office : Abu Dhabi, P.O.Box - 47226,
Tel : 02-6317645, Fax : 02 6215059
Email : msf-abou-dhabi@paris.msf.org

Branch Office : Dubai, P.O.Box : 65650,
Tel : 04-3458177, Fax : 04 3456754
E-mail : msf-dubai@paris.msf.org


منظمة أطباء بلا حدود هي منظمة إنسانية طبية عالمية مستقلة. تم تأسيس فرع لها في دولة الإمارات العربية المتحدة في أبو ظبي عام 1995 ، تحت رعاية سمو الشيخ نهيان بن مبارك آل نهيان، وزير التعليم العالي والبحث العلمي، الرئيس الفخري لهذه المنظمة، التي تهدف الى إطلاع الرأي العام على القيم الإنسانية والعالمية والى توضيح نشاطها العالمي على الصعيدين الصحي والإنساني.

فرع أبو ظبي- صندوق بريد: 47226
هاتف : 02-6317645 فاكس: 02-6215059
البريد الالكتروني: msf-abou-dhabi@paris.msf.org

فرع دبي- صندوق بريد:65650
هاتف :04-3458177 فاكس:04-3456754
البريد الالكتروني :msf-dubai@paris.msf.org


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MIM: The political involvement of the Zayed Center and other Arab 'charitable organisations' is revealed by James Zogby, the director of the Arab American Institute who wrote in this article in Al Jazeera entitled "What Must Be Done":

"...There are brilliant projects like those sponsored by the Palestinian Welfare Fund and the Sheikh Zayed Foundation that can be built upon and made the focus of an overall Arab strategy to rescue the Palestinian people and sustain their soon-to-be newly elected national leadership...." http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%2...0J%20Zogby.htm

For more on Zogby see: http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/304

MIM: The Zayed Center also finances The Palestinian Children's Relief Fund run by Steve Sosebee which openly aids Hamas.

"During a lecture at the Zayed International Centre for Coordination and Follow-Up (ZCCF), Sosebee charged that a "Zionist lobby and Zionist influence" manipulated the U.S. government, its citizens and media." http://www.ngo-monitor.org/editions/v2n05/v2n05-2.htm

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/196

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Zayed Center has also held conferences together with the neo Nazi LaRouche Foundation. http://www.schillerinstitute.org/lar...abu-dhabi.html

"...On June 2-3, 2002, a conference sponsored by the prestigious Zayed Centre in Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates, featured Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. giving the keynote speech. The two day, inviation-only conference, entitled, "The Follow Up on the The Role of Oil and Gas in World Politics" was attended by Ministers of the UAE government, numerous diplomatic representatives, intellectuals, and press. Delegates attended from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and from many other Gulf and Arab states.

Other speeches on the first day were given by Arab Oil Ministers and experts from the Gulf region. Mr. LaRouche's speech, presented here, was entitled The Middle East As A Strategic Crossroad , and was received with great enthusiasm. It was followed by a lively question and answer session.

This was the first visit Mr. LaRouche, to the Middle East region since 1975, and it marked an important intervention point into the ongoing discussion in the Arab oil producing countries regarding life and death strategic issues. Mr. LaRouche was accompanied by his wife Helga, the chairwoman and founder of the Schiller Institute..." Click here for her speech, and for related articles.

-------------------------------------------------------------

MIM: MSF founder and director of research Roni Brauman shows his dhimmitude to his UAE hosts and claims that American food aid to Afghanistan took place with "an ulterior purpose" and insinuated that the United States purposely bombed a Red Cross supply warehouse and only undertook humanitarian aid to Somalia as a pretext to " capture General Aideed".

http://www.khaleejtimes.co.ae/ktarchive/160702/uae.htm

MSF sees greater UAE role for global peace

By Anupama V. Chand THE UAE can serve a peace-keeper's role by providing a forum for the resolution of disputes in the region, with the office of Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) playing a supportive role, visiting MSF Director of Research Rony Brauman said in the Capital yesterday. Speaking to Khaleej Times on the sidelines of a two-day conference on "Human Rights, War Victims and International Law", which began yesterday at the Zayed Centre for Co-ordination and Follow-Up (ZCCF), Dr Brauman said that humanitarian intervention in any conflict or disaster had today become inextricably intertwined with military intervention.

"There is always an ulterior motive to the so-called peace-keeping initiatives by certain superpowers," he pointed out. Mr Brauman expressed confidence that the UAE office of MSF, which had been established to disseminate information about the activities of MSF and to raise funds, could play a much greater role if the need arose.

The MSF as a humanitarian organisation, often criticised military humanitarian action, through the only means at its disposal, i.e. public opinion, public expression and practical demonstrations of the effectiveness of peaceful and civilian humanitarian action, he said.

Dr Brauman, who spoke on "Military Humanitarian Intervention Operations", said the concept was age-old, with France and Britain having used diplomacy and humanitarian action to disguise their actual intentions of maintaining their hegemony, way back in the 19th century. Dr Brauman noted that their humanitarian principles, before anything else, were nothing but expressions of power used for achieving imperialistic designs. As examples of modern-day military humanitarian operations, which failed miserably as they did not have the greater good of 'humanitarian action' at heart, Dr Brauman mentioned the preliminary operations that the UN undertook in Congo in the sixties and France did in Nigeria during the Biafra Civil War in 1968-69.

He referred to the famine in Somalia, in 1992-93, the work carried out by the Red Cross and Red Crescent, and the American intervention at the request of UN Secretary General Boutros-Boutros Ghali, which was supposed to bring succour to the people, but which turned into a man-hunt conducted by the army to capture General Aideed. It only proves, he added, that humanitarian intervention today does not take place without military intervention or for some ulterior purpose.

Commenting on the recent US military involvement in Afghanistan, Dr Braun said that MSF strongly criticised the American action of dropping food packets by air, while calling it a "humanitarian" action, which it believed was only intended for Afghani supporters of the US in those areas, where the aid was distributed. The American bombardment of the Red Cross Warehouse, despite having known its identity, was a clear example of the politics involved in the whole exercise, he felt.

Stressing that every military intervention was a war, Dr Braun said that in politics, the issues of power balance and interests were at the core of any decision making. He hoped that humanitarian work could be liberated from the strategies of authority to make it a collective power with only one aim: solidarity for mankind.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/r...%20Afghanistan

CNN report: Doctors Without Borders (MSF) Criticizes the bombing/aid campaign:

The international medical aid agency Medecins Sans Frontiers (MSF) said the humanitarian action was "a piece of military propaganda aimed at making the U.S.-led attack more acceptable to international opinion." "What sense is there in shooting with one hand, and giving medicine with the other?" the group asked.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

MIM: The letter below was written to the director of MSF by someone who asked to be taken off their mailing list because of a statements which the organisation made in the media referring to the food drops in Afghanistan as "military propaganda". The heading of the webpage was "Doctors without Brains" http://www.therazor.org/oldroot/Winter02/msf.htm

Nicolas de Torrente
Executive Director
Medecins Sans Frontieres
6 East 39th Street, 8th Floor
New York, NY 10016

Dear Mr. Torrente,

Regarding your undated letter I received on December 1, 2001 in which you attempt to explain your organization's statements made to media outlets soon after aerial attacks began in Afghanistan on October 7th. The fact that your letter is undated suggests to me that I am not alone in being disappointed with your organization, one which I had previously held in high regard. While I appreciate you removing my name from your mailing list as I requested, I believe that your letter raised points which I cannot in good conscience leave unanswered.

First you state your "concern with any military actions, such as the forces present in Afghanistan, is with their impact on civilian populations". You publicly criticized American actions soon after the first bombs began falling without regard to the efforts taken by American forces to minimize civilian casualties. Throughout the campaign the United States has gone to unprecedented lengths to insure that the guilty would be targeted and the innocent spared. This lead to oil smugglers being pulled from their trucks by US Special Forces before the tankers were destroyed and Kabul residents leading normal lives as Al-Qaeda and Taliban military targets were hit. As reported by NPR last month, local Afghan aid officials marvelled at the ability of the US military to inflict damage on military targets while leaving civilian areas unscathed. Consequently, their aid efforts continued while you halted yours on September 14th, three weeks before the attacks began and while diplomatic efforts were just getting underway.

In your letter you criticize the American government's attempt at delivering aid while at the same time conducting a war. You worry that "air drops of food will not by themselves address the very significant humanitarian needs of the Afghan people."

The humanitarian needs of the Afghan people are so dire not because of any natural catastrophe but because of the Taliban and its Al-Qaeda financiers. During the five years in power, the Taliban did little to help the common Afghan while it provided sanctuary for foreign terrorists. While people starved the Taliban spent millions of Al-Qaeda money investigating nuclear, chemical and biological weapons at the same time it trained terrorists to use them. The efforts of the United States and its allies to destroy this regime, and replace it with one which will benefit the average person in Afghanistan is much more useful than your criticism.

You state in your letter that "a way must be found to reach those suffering the long-term effects of war and drought in Afghanistan". That way has been found - the brave men and women of the United States' and United Kingdom's armed forces. I believe that you should issue an apology to these true heroes and to the Afghans who are now being cared for and freed from Tyranny through their efforts. If you make such an apology, I will again hold your organization in high regard and will be honored to donate money to it.

Finally, you state in your letter that your organization "takes no position on the US and British military air strikes in Afghanistan or the air drops themselves". Sir, your organization released a statement calling the aid drops "military propaganda". That sounds like a position to me and one which you should be ashamed of taking.

Sincerely,

Niccolo Machiavelli

--------------------------------------------

MIM: According to this news report the MSF offices were in a building which also housed the International Solidarity Movement who were caught trying to hide a Hamas terrorist and helped bring two suicide bombers from Britain into Israel. In addition to the MSF the four story building also housed the Palestine National Bank and the Red Crescent. More proof of 'humanitarian terrorism" and how health and medical care is used as a facade for terrorism and corruption. The raid on the building was no doubt reported as an incursion into 'foreign aid offices'. The ISM claimed they "did not know the man was wanted". http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=6011

"Today in Jenin, IDF troops raided the offices of the International Solidarity Movement, the "peace" group to which Rachel Corrie belonged—and arrested a senior Islamic Jihad terrorist they were hiding.

The army said the man was being sheltered in the Jenin offices of the Palestinian-backed peace group whose members often act as human shields, placing themselves between Israeli soldiers and Palestinians.

An American activist with the group was killed on March 16 while trying to stop an Israeli military bulldozer in the Gaza Strip. She fell in front of the machine, which ran over her and then backed up, witnesses said.

The group said it did not know the man was wanted. The army said the suspect was a senior member of Islamic Jihad who planned a number of attacks on Israelis which were foiled by Israeli security forces.

The army said two women with the group — one British and the other Canadian — tried to hide the man but the group's spokesman, Tom Wallace, said the two group members were not aware of the man's identity.

The army said that during a search of the four-story building — which also houses offices of the International Committee of the Red Cross, international medical group Medicins Sans Frontieres and the Bank of Palestine — troops found a pistol in the International Solidarity Movement premises."

----------------------

http://www.khaleejtimes.co.ae/ktarchive/130502/uae.htm

MSF selected for UAE health prize

By a staff reporter

MEDICINS Sans Frontieres (MSF) has been selected for the UAE Health Foundation Prize for 2002, with the official announcement scheduled to be made on May 16 at WHO Geneva.

The foundation was established in May 1993 and awarded its first prize in 1995 to Egypt's Child Survival Project that was bestowed upon Dr Abdul Rahman Abdul Aziz Al Swailerm, from Saudi Arabia.

It was originally created with a donation of US $ 1 million by Shaikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE Armed Forces, for a special fund administered by the World Health Organisation (WHO).

According to MSF sources in the UAE, the prize is intended to reward persons, institutions, or organisations, who have made outstanding contributions to health development. Specially dedicated to the promotion of health care it is the most prestigious annual award from the WHO.

The sources noted that among the criteria taken into account in deciding the winner is the contribution to the advancement of primary health care and the role in innovative programmes designed to achieve the WHO's objective of 'Health for All'. The prize money consists of a certificate of award, a plaque from the founder and US $ 40,000 (Dhs. 146,800) which is distributed among all the recipients.

So far, the prize has been awarded to a number of individuals, organisations and institutions, including Hilary Rodham Clinton, former first lady of the United States in 1998 for her work in the health and social welfare field and Professor Ismail A. Sallam of Egypt in 1999 for his contributions in the field of cardiac surgery, including several discoveries.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7858

8/18/2003: Zayed Centre Being Closed?

The Gulf Daily News of Bahrain has a report that the lunatic black hole of Arab antisemitism, the Zayed Centre for Coordination and Followup, is being closed: UAE think-tank is shut.

DUBAI: The UAE is closing down a think-tank that Western critics accuse of promoting anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.

An official said yesterday the future of the Abu Dhabi-based Zayed International Centre for Co-ordination and Follow-Up - named in honour of UAE President Shaikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan - will be up to its official sponsor, the Arab League. The UAE has funded and hosted the centre since it opened in 1999.

"We are closing down the Zayed Centre and ceasing its funding," the official said.

The UAE "has privately voiced concerns in recent months at some statements which were linked to the centre's activities," he added.

Officials at the centre were not available for comment yesterday. Its website was not functioning, displaying only the message: "This site is under maintenance until further notice."

However—the reports of the Centre's demise appear to be premature, because contrary to the statement above, their web site is still serving up lunacy. (Although they removed most of the really juicy stuff, following their recent spate of bad publicity in the US.)

----------------------------------

MIM: An example of the material which was being diseminated by the Zayed Foundation

http://www.google.com/search?q=zayed...&start=10&sa=N

'U.S. War on Iraq Timed To Coincide With Jewish Holiday Purim'--King Faysal Univ Prof
MEMRI ^ | 4-11-03

Posted on 04/12/2003 4:36:59 AM PDT by SJackson

Author of Saudi Blood Libel and Professor at King Faysal University Lectures at Arab League Think Tank: 'U.S. War on Iraq Timed To Coincide With Jewish Holiday Purim'

On April 9, 2003, Dr. Umayma Jalahma briefed the Arab League's "Center for Coordination and Follow-Up" and claimed that the U.S. war in Iraq was timed to coincide with the Jewish holiday Purim. Dr. Jalahma, a professor of Islamic Studies at Saudi Arabia's King Faysal University, made headlines last year when she claimed that Jews use human blood to make pastries for the Purim holiday.

In an article published in the Saudi daily Al-Riyadh on March 12, 2002, Dr. Jalahma wrote about "the Jewish holiday of Purim... for this holiday, the Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare the holiday pastries... that affords the Jewish vampires great delight as they carefully monitor every detail of the blood-shedding with pleasure... After this barbaric display, the Jews take the spilled blood, in the bottle set in the bottom [of the needle-studded barrel], and the Jewish cleric makes his coreligionists completely happy on their holiday when he serves them the pastries in which human blood is mixed."(1)

Following MEMRI's release of a translation of this article, Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, and White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, criticized the Saudi government and press. Subsequently, Dr. Jalahma was prevented from writing for Al-Riyadh, but began writing for Al-Watan, another Saudi daily.

The "Zayed Center for Coordination and Follow-Up" was established by the Arab League in 1999. Notable speakers at the Center include former vice president Al Gore, former secretary of state James Baker, Professor Shibley Telhami of the University of Maryland, former president of Austria and former UN secretary-general Kurt Waldheim, President of the Arab-American Institute James Zogby, former U.S. president Jimmy Carter, former assistant secretary of state for the Middle East Richard Murphy, President of the Middle East Institute Edward Walker, and Lyndon Larouche. Recent events at the Center include a lecture by French intellectual Theirry Meyssan, author of "The Appalling Fraud," in which he accused the U.S. military of involvement in the September 11 terrorist attacks; the Saudi Gazette quoted Meyssan as stating at the event, "...[Those] who masterminded the operations and led them were American terrorists."(2)

Former UN weapons inspector Scott Ritter also lectured at the Center and, according to the Zayed Center's summary of the event, which took place on February 8, 2003, Ritter "concluded his lecture, saying that what is happening now in the United Sates [i.e. the planning of the war in Iraq] is due to the fact that this country [the U.S.] is administered by extremists, after the elections of 2000, describing this as a kind of coup d'etat against the American values and principles."

The following is the summary provided by the Zayed Center of Dr. Jalahma's lecture:

'The American War on Iraq Started in March to Concur with Purim'

"[Dr. Jalahma] said that the American war on Iraq started in March to concur with Purim Feast, often celebrated in this month, which symbolizes the Jewish victory over Haman in Babylon [sic]."

'Imminent' Civil War in Israel

"[Dr. Jalahma] indicated that some Zionist parties which believe that the oriental Jews (Sephardim) must stay within the Palestinian borders because, [like] the Arabs, are inferior to the Western Jews (Ashkenazim), according to their claims. She expected an imminent civil war, now under the make, in the Israeli society due to denominational, sectarian, and ethnic splits."

'Zionist Ambitions to Establish a World State'

"[Dr. Jalahma] stated the invading forces have begun to distribute the spoils and booties in Iraq, disregarding the painful cries and woes of the Iraqi children. She considered the Israeli plan to rehabilitate the oil pipeline that once linked Haifa to Mosul, in the north of Iraq, as a sound evidence of the greedy ambitions of these countries (the Zionist Anglo-Saxon alliance) in Iraq and the other Arab countries. She also indicated that no one can curb the Zionist ambitions to establish a world state whose economic and political aspirations have no limits."

On the Zionist and American Media Campaigns vs. the Arab and Muslim World

"[Dr. Jalahma] added that Zionism and some Western circles have been active to defame the Arab and Muslim image, and to conceal truth and facts relating to the Arab and Muslim history. She called for condensed efforts to counter this campaign and to improve the Arab and Muslim image in the West.

On the 'Exploitation of the Jewish Woman... She is Still Denied Her Rights as a Human Being... She is Even Deprived of Her Children'

"In another context, [Dr. Jalahma] said that the Jewish woman is politically and socially oppressed by the Jewish fundamentalists and secularists alike, mentioning that the Jewish woman lives in a miserable condition that requires the intervention of the international humanitarian organization to protect her. The Jewish woman, she said, has been exploited and used for political purposes, and despite her noticeable contribution to the building of the Zionist society, she is still denied her rights as a human being. Injustice and oppression weigh heavily on her everywhere in society, particularly the Kibbutz, or the collective farms where she is even deprived of her children and extensively indoctrinated the Zionist principles."(3)

Endnotes:
(1) See MEMRI past dispatches on this subject:
Special Dispatch Series - No. 357 - March 21, 2002
Editor of Saudi Government Daily Al-Riyadh: Statement on 'Purim' Blood Libel Articles:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP35702.
Special Dispatch Series - No. 354 - March 13, 2002
Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP35402.
Press Release - No. 1 - March 18, 2002,
Press Release on Article in Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...rabia&ID=PR102.
(2) MEMRI Special Dispatch - No. 383 - May 23, 2002 Arab League Think Tank Hosts Event: U.S. Military behind September 11:
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Pa...=sd&ID=SP38302.
(3) http://www.zccf.org.ae/e_TitleDescription.asp?Tid=477, April 9, 2003.

http://www.freespeech.com/archives/000286.html
Zayed Center is losing it..

A few days ago I posted a story about the Zayed Center for Coordination and Followup. I commented on how sad I was to see so many prominent American politicians supporting this antisemitic cess pool that functions under the guise of the Arab League. I also said that I hope the US media would cover this story. Thanks to MEMRI and LGF for bringing this issue to the forefront.

Well, MEMRI has done a fine job of translating the materials of the Zayed Centre and exposing them for what they are. They were featured in a CBS News story recently, and I'm glad this story is being uncovered.

So today, the Zayed Centre has made a press release containing blatant lies about the contents of the MEMRI report. Why is this not suprising?

I guess they figured that nobody would actually read the report to see if the allegations are true. I wonder if CBS will do a follow up to expose this stupidity also? As always, hat tip goes to Charles at LGF!

-----------------------------------------------------

MIM: This petition listing the Islamo facist activities of the Zayed Centre was signed by thousands of people who appealed to Harvard president Lawrence Sommers to "restore the integrity of the university" and return the money to Zayed. It will take more then that to give Harvard, which has become a bastion of left wing and radical Islamist causes, some credibility. One of the funders of the The Harvard School for Islamic legal studies is listed as Engineer Bakr Bin Laden - the father of Osama. (See articles below)http://www.petitiononline.com/zayedno/petition.html
To: Harvard University

We members of the Harvard University community – students, faculty, staff, and alumni – and the general public call on the Harvard Divinity School to return Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan's donation for the creation of a chair in Islamic studies.

We support the creation of a chair in Islamic studies at Harvard Divinity School, but we oppose establishing it with the money and the name of one who spreads hate and lies. Harvard must not accept money from donors who oppress and abuse their own citizens, spread Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism, promote hatred of Americans, and validate conspiracy theories about September 11th.

• The Zayed Center for Coordination and Follow-Up, an Arab League think tank, is described on its website as "the fulfillment of the vision of Sheikh Zayed."
o In August 2002, the Los Angeles Times reported that the Zayed Center's executive director, Mohammed Murar, stated, "The truth is that the Jews are the enemies of all nations." His comments came on the heels of a Zayed Center report that stated, "The Zionists are the people who killed the Jews in Europe."
o The Zayed Center hosted Umayma Jalahma, a Saudi professor who has declared, "The Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare for holiday pastries."
o The Zayed Center published the Arabic translation of Theiry Meyssan's Apalling Fraud, which claims that the U.S. military was behind the September 11th attacks.
o The Zayed Center has hosted Holocaust deniers David Irving and Roger Garaudy

• As ruler of the United Arab Emirates, Zayed is responsible for his nation's shameful human rights record, which includes, according to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, corporal punishment of dissidents and dictatorial governance – Zayed has ruled as the UAE's unelected president since 1971. In addition, his regime has been cited for the use of child slave labor in the camel racing industry, abuse of domestic servants, and racial discrimination against foreign workers.

Especially at a time of rampant anti-American and anti-Semitic incitement that leads to the murder of innocent men, women, and children around the world, Harvard must not accept money from a donor who funds this hatred.

We the undersigned call upon President Lawrence Summers and Dean William Graham to restore the integrity of Harvard University and reject Sheikh Zayed's money.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110003591

MIM: This was written by a Harvard student who drew attention to the Zayed Foundation's Islamofacist agenda and urged the Divinity School to return Zayed's donation.

------------------------------------------------------

Troubling Gift
Will Harvard take $2.5 million from a man tied to Holocaust denial?

BY RACHEL LEA FISH
Friday, June 6, 2003 12:01 a.m.

In July 2000, the Harvard Divinity School accepted $2.5 million from the president of the United Arab Emirates, Sheik Zayed bin Sultan al-Nahyan, for the creation of an endowed professorship in Islamic religious studies. A professorship in Islamic studies is long overdue at Harvard Divinity School, something I especially appreciate as a student of Islam. But when I learned more about the donor, Sheik Zayed, I became dismayed.

Why? Amnesty International has repeatedly documented the terrible human-rights record of Sheik Zayed's country: its lack of elections, use of corporal punishment on political prisoners and trafficking in Bangladeshi child slaves. Sheik Zayed has ruled the United Arab Emirates as unelected president since 1971.

That is bad enough. But, perhaps more important, Sheik Zayed also funds the Abu Dhabi-based Zayed Center for Coordination and Follow-Up, a prominent think tank of the Arab League, founded in 1999. The Zayed Center, described on its Web site "as the fulfillment of the vision of Sheikh Zayed," promotes Holocaust denial, anti-American conspiracy theories and hate speech in its lectures, symposiums and publications.

In August 2002, the Los Angeles Times quoted Mohammed Murar, the executive director of the Zayed Center, saying about Jews that "the truth is they are the enemies of all nations." His comment came on the heels of a Zayed Center report stating that "the Zionists are the people who killed the Jews in Europe."

The Zayed Center has a history of giving Holocaust deniers like David Irving a forum to promulgate their ideas. In 1998, Sheik Zayed's wife donated $50,000 to finance the defense of infamous Holocaust denier Roger Garaudy in a French court.

In April 2002, the Zayed Center hosted Thierry Meyssan, the French author of "The Appalling Fraud," which claims that the U.S. military staged the 9/11 attacks. The center translated Mr. Meyssan's book into Arabic, hailed its publication and widely advertised the work. A month later, Lyndon LaRouche, the fringe political figure who has made disparaging remarks about Judaism, was an honored guest. Just last month, the center hosted Umayma Jalahma, a professor of Islamic Studies at King Faisal University, who declared: "The Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare for holiday pastries."

Despite Sheik Zayed's track record, Harvard Prof. William Graham, now dean of the Divinity School, hailed his donation. "This endowment," he told the Harvard Gazette in September 2000, "is a most welcome gift. We are delighted with this encouraging development."

At the time, Mr. Graham was probably not aware of Sheik Zayed's links to hate speech and Holocaust deniers. So a group of Divinity School students, including me, went to him this March with a dossier of evidence and a request that Sheik Zayed's hate money be returned. Mr. Graham told us that he was going to have an "independent" researcher look into the matter and that he would get back to us in four to six weeks. We're still waiting. It should be noted that Mr. Graham has not been afraid to take a public stand on Harvard's ties to the Middle East--last year he signed a petition calling for the university to disinvest from Israel--but so far he has not spoken out on Sheik Zayed's gift.

By accepting the sheik's money, the Divinity School honors and validates the hate speech he promotes. Harvard would never accept money from a Ku Klux Klan financier. Is the hate funded by Sheikh Zayed's money any less abhorrent?

When anti-Jewish and anti-American rhetoric is on the rise in Europe and the Arab world, Harvard's faculty, administration and alumni should not turn a blind eye to veritas: the truth that a prominent donor bankrolls hate speech that all people of conscience should condemn.

Unfortunately, this problem extends beyond Harvard. Sheik Zayed is also a backer of Georgetown's Center for Contemporary Arab Studies. Saudi rulers facing lawsuits for their ties to al Qaeda have funded professorships now under fire at Berkeley.

American students need to learn more about Islam and the Middle East, and the Harvard Divinity School should enhance its Islamic studies program. But there is no place for money from rulers who abuse their own citizens, spread Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism and validate conspiracy theories about 9/11. Harvard Divinity School should put its own ethical and moral teachings into action and return Sheik Zayed's money.
Ms. Fish is a student at Harvard Divinity School.


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"It is a pity that the outrage generated by the Zayed donation did not extend to the Bin Ladens. An examination of the activities of the Harvard Divinity school and their Pluralism Project would show that accepting money from the Zayed Foundation was very much in keeping with their own "ethical and moral teachings". An examination of the project shows that they have given degrees to people in Wiccanism and Paganism and have invited radical Islamists as lecturers. One of the Pluralism Project's coordinators was listed as being a 'practicing witch'.
http://www.binladenfamily.com/HarvardBinLaden.html

Harvard Bin Laden Funds

Description of the Donations

"The bin Laden family's endowed fellowships totals $2 million, for use at Harvard's law and design schools." (Luke Smith, "Media, not students, question Harvard-bin Laden link", Harvard Crimson, October 5, 2001)

"The money [at the law school] is used for research fellows, some students and some faculty." (Harvard Law School Spokesman Mike Armini, Interview with JohnDoe, April 2002)

"In 1993 and 1994, the Saudi Binladin Group gave two $1 million gifts to Harvard University for research on Islamic law and architecture, according to a university spokesman." (Michael Dobbs and John Ward Anderson, "A Fugitive's Splintered Family Tree", Washington Post, September 30, 2001)

"Sheik Bakr Mohammed bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's brother, made two gifts to the University in 1993 and 1994 to fund fellowships for advanced study in Islamic culture. One such fellowship, at the Harvard Law School, provides funds for "research on the history of legal institutions in Islamic states past and present, particularly insofar as they uphold or apply the Islamic shari'a." Another, at the Harvard Design School, provides money for "advanced studies in Islamic architecture ... and appropriate building technologies as they pertain to Islamic built environments." ("Harvard U.: Bin Laden ties to Harvard", Harvard Crimson, September 13, 2001)

"That same year the Saudi Bin Laden Group gave $1 million to Harvard's Graduate School of Design, and another $1 million in 1994 to Harvard Law School, for visiting professors to study subjects pegged to Islam, school spokesman Andy Tiedemann said." (David E. Kalish, "Well connected, bin Laden family network spans the globe", Associated Press, October 5, 2001)

"The endowments to Harvard, made in the early 1990s, came from the Saudi Bin Laden Group, a collection of family members in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, university spokesman Joe Wrinn said. The bin Laden family operates Saudi Arabia's largest and richest construction company." (Elizabeth Mehren, "After the Attack Boston a Home for Bin Ladens Several Siblings Have Settled in Area; Family Has Given $2 Million to Harvard", Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2001)

"Harvard spokesman Joe Wrinn said the school has received only $2 million in gifts from bin Laden's family [Cambridge City Councilman Kenneth Reeves had estimated the amount to be $5 million] and the money has "no connection whatsoever" to terrorism or to Osama bin Laden. The family gave $1 million to the Harvard Graduate School of Design in 1993 to fund visiting fellows in Islamic architecture, Wrinn said. The family later gave $1 million to Harvard Law School to fund visiting professors in Islamic law." (Jay Lindsay, "City of Cambridge Urges Harvard to Donate to Victims", Associated Press, September 25, 2001)

"In 1994, Vogel traveled to Saudi Arabia and negotiated with the family a $1 million donation. It has been used to bring fellows from the Middle East to study at Harvard. The Binladins also made a $1 million donation to the school of design at Harvard, and gave $300,000 to Hess's program at the Fletcher School. They have funded another fellowship program at the Oxford Center for Islamic Studies. And every year, the Saudi Binladin Group donates tens of thousands of dollars to the Middle East Policy Council, which helps train educators on how to teach about the Middle East and Islam." (Marcella Bombardieri, and Neil Swidey, "In Cambridge, a Binladin Breaks Family Silence, The Boston Globe, October 7, 2001)

"At Harvard, spokesman Wrinn emphasized that the family has had no oversight - and in fact, no direct involvement - with either grant to the school." (Elizabeth Mehren, "After the Attack Boston a Home for Bin Ladens Several Siblings Have Settled in Area; Family Has Given $2 Million to Harvard", Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2001)

Harvard Insists the Bin Laden Family Has No Connection to Terrorism

"Though the grants to Harvard suddenly have come under scrutiny, "that group is in no way associated with terrorism," Wrinn insisted. In fact, he said, "They have disassociated themselves from Osama bin Laden."" (Elizabeth Mehren, "After the Attack Boston a Home for Bin Ladens Several Siblings Have Settled in Area; Family Has Given $2 Million to Harvard", Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2001)

"Wrinn added that, since the first gift in 1993 "and to this date, we have had no indication whatsoever that the money has had any connection to any form of terrorism." (Elizabeth Mehren, "After the Attack Boston a Home for Bin Ladens Several Siblings Have Settled in Area; Family Has Given $2 Million to Harvard", Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2001)

"Harvard spokesman Joe Wrinn said the school has received only $2 million in gifts from bin Laden's family and the money has "no connection whatsoever" to terrorism or to Osama bin Laden." (Jay Lindsay, "City of Cambridge Urges Harvard to Donate to Victims", Associated Press, September 25, 2001)

""There is absolutely no connection, to our knowledge, of that money being tied to any terrorist act or Osama bin Laden in particular," Wrinn said." (Scott Calvert, "Wealth of bin Laden family can be seen in Boston area $2 million donated to Harvard University; relative owns 4 condos", The Baltimore Sun, September 17, 2001)

""It's this perception that Harvard takes blood money," said Wrinn. "We do not."" (Scott Calvert, "Wealth of bin Laden family can be seen in Boston area $2 million donated to Harvard University; relative owns 4 condos", The Baltimore Sun, September 17, 2001)

"Harvard's Office of Government, Community and Public Affairs responded to the order by faxing information about the bin Laden scholarships and the non-terrorist members of the family to City Hall. "What we've done is we're sending around to the city councillors the same background factual material that we sent to the media," said Travis McCready, director of community affairs, just before the meeting." (Lauren R. Dorgan, "City of Cambridge urges Harvard to pay terrorist victims", Harvard Crimson, September 25, 2001)

Research Harvard Completed to Come to Its Conclusion about Bin Laden Family

When asked what "research, news runs, discussions with government officials, etc," the school had done to confirm that the Bin Laden family has no connection to Osama or other terrorist activity, Harvard Law School Spokesman Mike Armini said, "We talked with the family." When asked, "So you basically talked to the family and are relying on their word and your impressions and conclusions after dealing with them," he said, "Yes, Professor Vogel knows them well." (Interview with JohnDoe, April 2002)

Harvard's Commitment to Dissociate from the Gifts and the Bin Laden Family if Ties to Terrorism Are Found

"Since the attacks, Harvard officials have stressed that the University would cease using the endowed funds if they found any explicit link with Osama bin Laden's terrorist organization." (Luke Smith, "Media, not students, question Harvard-bin Laden link", Harvard Crimson, October 5, 2001)

""Our position has been that there's not sort of a guilt through association," [Harvard spokesman Andy] Tiedemann said. "Should the university ever learn of a connection between (the company) and terrorism activities, we would take the appropriate steps related to these gifts," he added, declining to elaborate." (David E. Kalish, "Well connected, bin Laden family network spans the globe", Associated Press, October 5, 2001)

""If we were to find a link (with terrorism), we would immediately disassociate ourselves from the gifts," Wrinn said." (Jay Lindsay, "City of Cambridge Urges Harvard to Donate to Victims", Associated Press, September 25, 2001)

"[Wrinn] added that, since the first gift in 1993 "and to this date, we have had no indication whatsoever that the money has had any connection to any form of terrorism in general, or to Osama bin Laden specifically." Should that change, Wrinn said, "Harvard obviously would take appropriate steps."" (Elizabeth Mehren, "After the Attack Boston a Home for Bin Ladens Several Siblings Have Settled in Area; Family Has Given $2 Million to Harvard", Los Angeles Times, September 17, 2001)

Harvard Insists the Money is Being Put to Good Use

"Harvard spokesman Alex Huppe differentiated between the family and the alleged terrorist, saying, "It's clear the Saudi bin Laden money is being put to good use here."" (Anne E. Kornblut and Aaron Zitner, "Bin Laden family has U.S. ties, including Harvard", The Boston Globe, August 28, 1998)

Cambridge City Council Calls on Harvard to Donate $5 Million

"The city of Cambridge is urging Harvard University, which has received millions in donations from Osama bin Laden's family, to donate money to victims of the Sept. 11 terror attack. The City Council voted 8-1 Monday night to approve a resolution asking Harvard to donate $5 million. The resolution, which contained no reference to bin Laden or his family, cited the number of survivors who will receive relatively small survivor benefits. The original resolution, submitted by councilor Kenneth Reeves, identified bin Laden as the prime suspect in the attack and said members of his family had donated about $5 million to Harvard. Bin Laden has been disavowed by members of his family, which built its fortune from a construction business. Reeves suggested that Harvard give an amount "equal to its bin Laden receipts to the survivors of those lost in New York and Washington D.C."" (Jay Lindsay, "City of Cambridge Urges Harvard to Donate to Victims", Associated Press, September 25, 2001)

Harvard Has Given $1 Million to 9/11 Victims

"Wrinn said Harvard already has pledged $1 million to establish a fund to educate the spouses and children of the victims." (Jay Lindsay, "City of Cambridge Urges Harvard to Donate to Victims", Associated Press, September 25, 2001)
























This item is available on the Militant Islam Monitor website, at http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/388
Reply

Danah
05-07-2010, 12:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by glo
You know more about them than I do then.
Immm...not really, even though they had some activities here but I was not following their news. I knew more about them after reading that article Woordow posted here.



format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
There are two MSF.

First : Medecins Sans Frontieres. (Doctor without border). Voluntary paramedic organization.

Second : Missionarii a Sacra Familia. A Catholic organization.

Can you guess, which MSF that try to convert Muslim people ?.
Well, actually I read that article in Arabic and it referred to the MSF as (أطباء بلا حدود) which means in Arabic (Doctors Without Borders). But anyways, I start doubting the article I read now after searching more about the issue. Or maybe it was mis-interpreted from English to Arabic and the guy who translated it thought that its the first MSF when it was the second you mentioned.



format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
:sl:

Here is the Printable format of the article cut and pasted from the site:

This item is available on the Militant Islam Monitor website, at http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/388
Medicins sans Frontieres- Doctors without Borders - funded by anti American -anti semitic UAE Zayed Center
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JazakAllah khair for posting that, I got a lot from that article, may Allah have mercy on Sheikh Zayed' soul and reward him for his help to humanity. They can't ruin his reputation and image in his people's hearts like that. He was not only a president but a father to everyone in UAE.

I was not aware that the MSF have an old branch here in UAE as I was not following their news, I just visited their website and knew more about them now after reading your post. Thanks again for clarifying that to me.


Thanks everyone for clarifying this for me:)
Reply

ardianto
05-08-2010, 10:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Danah
Well, actually I read that article in Arabic and it referred to the MSF as (أطباء بلا حدود) which means in Arabic (Doctors Without Borders). But anyways, I start doubting the article I read now after searching more about the issue. Or maybe it was mis-interpreted from English to Arabic and the guy who translated it thought that its the first MSF when it was the second you mentioned.
The article writer was too fast to make conclusion, and he/she didn't do check and recheck. But he/she was not alone. Sometime other journalists make same mistake too.

From my observation, Medecine Sans Frontieres never spread any religion to the people.

But Missionarii a Sacra Familia (also known as Misafa) is a Catholic missionaries group that based in Rome. They have many missionaries and many representative offices in many countries, including Indonesia. If people never heard about them, this is because they work in silence.
Reply

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