PDA

View Full Version : alcohol is forbidden in all religions



MrKhan89
04-21-2010, 02:09 AM
why do christians think its ok to drink alcohol, and why do they say he drank alcohol wine, i heard that scholars have said that the wine he drank wasn't alcoholic.

the prophets of god never drank alcohol at all, especially Jesus (pbuh).
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Rabi Mansur
04-21-2010, 03:42 AM
:sl:

Why do you think that the wine in Jesus' day was not alcoholic? I've never heard that before. At passover he drank wine, the early Christians used wine for the eucharist and Paul mentions wine being ok to drink in his letter to Timothy. I fail to see where it was ever forbidden.

:wa:
Reply

Asian man
04-21-2010, 02:14 PM
Mrkhan89 is right, why would a prophet of god drink alcohol if it's forbidden? it's obvious that alcohol isnthe devils drink, so that wine Jesus(pbuh) was not alcoholic, all of the prophets and messengers never drank alcohol.

I found sources that clearly shows that alcohol is clearly forbidden in the bible as well as the Torah.
Reply

Asian man
04-21-2010, 02:16 PM
Alcohol is the devils drink, I made a typo saying " isnthe" lol
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
Dagless
04-21-2010, 02:21 PM
Alcohol being forbidden now does not mean that it was always forbidden. There are a few things like this which were permissible before but not now (now meaning in and after prophet Muhammad (pbuh's) time and the final revelation).
The title is also misleading since I doubt any of us know of "all religions" let alone know if alcohol is forbidden in them.
Reply

Supreme
04-21-2010, 03:16 PM
Well, this thread is directly targeting Christianity. But we believe that alcohol is very much permitted: Jesus Himself drank it on numerous occasions- indeed, He even transformed water into wine. Nevertheless, alcohol is also permitted in Judaism (which produces delicious Passover wine), and I believe the only religion that outright bans consumption of alcohol is Islam.
Reply

Asian man
04-21-2010, 03:42 PM
Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."


why do u Christians believe he drank wine when this verse was found in the bible lol

Contradictions ftw lol
Reply

atheistbynature
04-21-2010, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by Asian man
Alcohol is the devils drink, I made a typo saying " isnthe" lol
Why is that obvious. I presume you mean it is evil and yet it inhibits neurotransmitters and causes pleasure. It also has many positive effects in moderation including reducing risk of diabetes, decreases risk of dementia and increasing blood flow.
Reply

Rabi Mansur
04-21-2010, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Well, this thread is directly targeting Christianity. But we believe that alcohol is very much permitted: Jesus Himself drank it on numerous occasions- indeed, He even transformed water into wine. Nevertheless, alcohol is also permitted in Judaism (which produces delicious Passover wine), and I believe the only religion that outright bans consumption of alcohol is Islam.
Mormonism bans it too. I believe that seventh day adventists might also but I'm not certain. I do know about the Mormon ban though.

The bible preaches against excessive drinking of wine but I have never seen where it is outright banned in the scriptures. I'm afraid my friends who believe that Jesus (PBUH) never consumed wine are wishful thinking. "Take, drink, this is my blood." No doubt about it, he drank wine and turned water into wine.
:wa:
Reply

omar ibrahim
04-21-2010, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by atheistbynature
Why is that obvious. I presume you mean it is evil and yet it inhibits neurotransmitters and causes pleasure. It also has many positive effects in moderation including reducing risk of diabetes, decreases risk of dementia and increasing blood flow.
oh really we know it has positive things 1400years ago from the quran the meaning of it according to the quran they ask oh mohammed about gambling and wine say to them they are a big sin
and they have benefits but the negatives more than the positives.^^
{يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ الْخَمْرِ وَالْمَيْسِرِ قُلْ فِيهِمَا إِثْمٌ كَبِيرٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَإِثْمُهُمَآ أَكْبَرُ مِن نَّفْعِهِمَا}
Reply

omar ibrahim
04-21-2010, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by Asian man
Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."


why do u Christians believe he drank wine when this verse was found in the bible lol

Contradictions ftw lol
hi brother you have to be more polite than this ,if you want to debate the people of the book christians and jewish you have to dialouge with them in the best manner,best way

ولا تجادلوا اهل الكتاب الى باللتي هي احسن الا الذين ظلموا منهم

this is a verse from the quran wich means dialouge with the people of the book in the best way ,best manner except those who are dalmeen which means devil people liers cheaters

otherwis

ولو كنت فظا غليظ القلب لانفضوا من حولك

oh mohammed if you are rude and your heart is so coarse they will run out

sorry for my bad translation i hope you get the meaning ^^

peace
Reply

glo
04-21-2010, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by Asian man
Proverbs 20:1, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."
That verse reminds us to be moderate is alcohol consumption, and not to be 'led astray' by getting drunk and loosing one's senses.
I don't think it is a warning not to drink wine at all. Drinking wine was very much custom in Jewish culture.

Jesus referred to himself as drinking alcohol when he said this:
"The Son of Man [Jesus] came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)
Reply

Predator
04-21-2010, 09:37 PM
The bible prohibits the consumption of wine (Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 4:17, 20:1).


Do not drink wine nor strong drink (Leviticus 10:9)

Wine [is] a mocker, strong drink [is] raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)


For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. (Proverbs 4:17)


But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)


Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)

*****dom and wine and new wine take away the heart. (Hosea 4:11)



Jesus said he would never drink wine until he enter heaven (Jannah)

Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God. (Mark 14:25)

Jesus would never praise wine because it was the poison that caused Noah to get drunk, and Lot to commit incest!
According to the Bible, the Prophet Noah got drunk! (God forbid)



And Noah began [to be] an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid [it] upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces [were] backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. (Genesis 9:20-25)



Prophet Lot commits incest from wine (God forbid)


Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, [and] lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. (Genesis 19:33-26)


These stories still convey a moral lesson for mankind that alcohol (wine) is the most dangerous substance that should be rejected by the true followers of Jesus.

This cocktail quality of Western civilization proves that the people of the West are not satisfied with the social structure or the values of their societies and that is why they keep inventing new social trends and ideologies. With this Western chaos of ideologies, how can the ordinary man find mental pace? (ibid, p. 41)


Paul, the corrupter of the Gospel, made the drinking of wine permissible and the Gospel writers reflected his teaching.

(a) "Alcohol is for people who are DYING, for those who are in
MISERY. Let them drink and FORGET their poverty and
unhappiness." (From the "Good News Bible in Today's English") PROVERBS 31:6-
7
Alcohol recommended in preference to water!
(b) "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomachs
sake and thine often infirmities." 1 TIMOTHY 5:23



Strangely, Paul mentions Noah but says nothing about how he got drunk; he blatantly ignored the story, and allowed the drinking of wine anyways.


Alcohol is the Devil's handiwork says the . . . Holy Qur'an 5:93

Muslims are the true followers of Jesus because they practice his teachings, the abstinence from alcohol and the consumption of forbidden foods, and they observe fasting. The 12 disciples fasted after Jesus’ departure, and Muslims obey their teachings whereas the “Christians” today neglect these laws.
Reply

Rabi Mansur
04-22-2010, 02:11 AM
:sl:
I don't know if there is a real definitive answer to this one, but certainly the NT gospels leave the impression that Jesus (P) did drink wine when he contrasted himself with John the Baptist.

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)

Jesus contrasted Himself with John the Baptist. Jesus said that John
did not eat bread nor drink wine, but Jesus did eat and drink. This
gives the impression that Jesus ate bread and drank wine. Furthermore,
because Jesus ate and drank, He was called a "glutton" and a
"drunkard." This implies that Jesus possibly drank wine
Also, the first miracle he performed was turning water into wine and at the last supper which was at passover, he gave wine to the 12 apostles to drink ("Take, drink, this is my blood of the new covenant.")

But regardless of the above, I don't know that it matters if Jesus (P) drank wine. It shouldn't matter to Muslims. The Qur'an teaches that the harm outweighs the good.

What is wrong with it being forbidden now but not forbidden during the time of Jesus (P)? The Qur'an is the final revelation.

:wa:
Reply

//-Asif-\\
04-22-2010, 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by Airforce
The bible prohibits the consumption of wine (Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 4:17, 20:1).


Paul, the corrupter of the Gospel, made the drinking of wine permissible and the Gospel writers reflected his teaching.

(a) "Alcohol is for people who are DYING, for those who are in
MISERY. Let them drink and FORGET their poverty and
unhappiness." (From the "Good News Bible in Today's English") PROVERBS 31:6-
7
Alcohol recommended in preference to water!
(b) "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomachs
sake and thine often infirmities." 1 TIMOTHY 5:23


Wow. Very saintly of St. Paul haha. Now I'm beginning to wonder that his epiphany on the ride to Damascus was all just a bit of :glub glub: :playing:
Reply

Ramadhan
04-22-2010, 05:38 AM
Originally Posted by bigups
Alcohol isn't forbiden in Christianity. The wine of Jesus day wasn't a fermented wine, but rather fresh. It is only forbiden to be a drunkard, or become drunk from alcohol. Allot of people say there are health benifits from wine.....so does fresh grape juice.
I am not sure what you mean by "fresh wine".

As for the benefits, Al Qur'an itself tells of some benefits of "khamr", but the ill effects of "khamr" (or intoxicants) far outweigh the benefits, and hence drinking alcohol is forbidden.

you say christians are not allowed to be drunk. but at what point is this "drunk" line is drawn? how do you know you are not drunk yet?
currently all christians I personally know (and I know zillions of them) do not shy away from drinking alcohol, and many drink them in great quantity.
Reply

Supreme
04-22-2010, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by rabimansur
:sl:
I don't know if there is a real definitive answer to this one, but certainly the NT gospels leave the impression that Jesus (P) did drink wine when he contrasted himself with John the Baptist.



Also, the first miracle he performed was turning water into wine and at the last supper which was at passover, he gave wine to the 12 apostles to drink ("Take, drink, this is my blood of the new covenant.")

But regardless of the above, I don't know that it matters if Jesus (P) drank wine. It shouldn't matter to Muslims. The Qur'an teaches that the harm outweighs the good.

What is wrong with it being forbidden now but not forbidden during the time of Jesus (P)? The Qur'an is the final revelation.

:wa:
I agree. What on Earth should it matter whether Christians or others drink alcohol? It simply shouldn't- a Muslim should get on with his religion, and stop trying to persuade others that drinking alcohol is somehow against God. I see no reason to stop drinking alcohol, especially seeing as Jesus wasn't exactly against consumption of alcohol, and neither were the Jewish traditions and prophets that came before Jesus.
Reply

جوري
04-22-2010, 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar
I am not sure what you mean by "fresh wine".

As for the benefits, Al Qur'an itself tells of some benefits of "khamr", but the ill effects of "khamr" (or intoxicants) far outweigh the benefits, and hence drinking alcohol is forbidden.

you say christians are not allowed to be drunk. but at what point is this "drunk" line is drawn? how do you know you are not drunk yet?
currently all christians I personally know (and I know zillions of them) do not shy away from drinking alcohol, and many drink them in great quantity.

They go out on the road and take a chance if they kill two resident doctors (as one guy did to two of my colleagues of March of last year) then he is drunk, if they survive, then he wasn't drunk and he can live to take a chance on another day when my friends in the prime of their life and like many others are buried six feet under!..


:w:
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!