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khalil1969
04-21-2010, 04:25 AM
brothers and sisters

how will you vote in the coming election? Thank you
khalil

www.everythingislamicmuslim.net
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Blackpool
04-22-2010, 09:28 AM
I would vote UKip, I think they're on the same wavelength as most of us regarding immigration, the EU and Europe. The only problem is that they're inexperienced but I think they'll do well this year hence the possibility of a hung parliament... I despise Labour, I don't trust the Conservatives although I like their Europe-scepticism. They have mentioned that they will grab back power from Brussels so out of the top 3 it would be the Tories. I cannot stand Lib Dems. I despite the left wing with a passion.
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1Ummah1Deen
04-22-2010, 08:33 PM
Salams, if we as muslims beleive in the shahada 'La Ilaha il Allah Muhammad ur Rasoolula', then there should be no argument that we accept everyhting that Allah SWT tells us we can/cannot do. Every action we undertake, every thought process we have, we refer back to islam because we beleive that Allah SWT has legislated and made this deen applicable to every time, day and situation we face. Allah SWT says in the Quran “This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and chosen for you Islam as your way of life (Deen).” [TMQ: Ma’idah: 3]

So when it comes to the issue of voting in the upcoming elections here in Britain, we must first and foremost go back to Islam and see what Allah SWT has to say on this matter.

Voting is something which is permitted in Islam, for example when we look in islamic history it is clear to see that voting for someone to rule, legislate over them such as the time of Khilafah Rashida is encouraged.

But when we are living in a secular democracy where sovreignty and law making belongs to man not Allah SWT it is clear that this is haram. Allah SWT says in the quran:
إِنِ الْحُكْمُ إِلاَّ لِلّهِ
“The rule rests with Allah alone” [Translated Meaning Quran Surah Yusuf 12:40] and

وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ
Whosoever rules by other than what Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.” [Translated Meaning Quran Surah Maidah 5:44]

I am not saying that muslims shouldn't participate in politics, we must ask ourselves what is politics? It is looking after the affairs of the people, we as muslims do this everyday e.g. when someone dies and we organise a funeral we are looking after the affairs of the people. But when when speaking about politics concerning legislation and certain viewpoints we must first look at what they stand for/represent

Muslims are being told to vote for parties with policies such as the legalisation of bloodshed and occupation of Muslim lands (as we saw with Iraq and Afghanistan); the creation of oppressive anti-terror laws; the permission of riba and economic exploitation, gambling, alcohol; and who all support. A vote for these parties would be an endorsement of policies that clearly contradict Islam.

But obviously there are many issues as people have highlighted that we face here in britain which we need a solution to such as
• The propaganda and media attacks on Islam and its values
• Concerns for our children’s welfare, especially when raising them in a society plagued by drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity and family breakdown.
• The killing of Muslims in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere – and occupation of these lands
• Anti-terror laws that unjustly target Muslims

So the solution, again we refer back to Islam, how did the Prophet SAW deal with the injustices that the ummah were facing? Did He SAW go thorugh the quraysh and work tyhrough their system to implement change?No he did not, the prophet SAW fought to implement Islam in it's entirety, (for those who may not be aware Islam has rulings on all aspects such as social, economic, foreign policy etc). He SAW was even offered ppower and money in order to give up his call but yet He SAW did not. So the question is if we do not make a change working through the system how do we do it?

Our community’s strength lies in being united in solving these problems. Unity of this community would mean strength economically and politically. By contrast secular party politics creates fitna, division and weakness. So, calling the community to join the Labour party, Conservative party or Liberal Democrats (or any others) would divide our community along party lines, creating bitterness and discord.
Our community’s strength lies in self reliance. The record of this community, over decades, speaks for itself: Hundreds of masajid, madrasahs and Islamic schools have largely been built by the community’s money and effort without help from the state.

Our community must voice our opposition – in a strong and united manner – to the policies which lead to the killing of Muslims in Palestine, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and elsewhere and the occupation of these lands; and support the global work for an Islamic Khilafah state that will liberate these lands and end the killing and oppression. We cannot rely on the secular parties who endorsed these colonial and murderous policies in the Middle East, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

Allah SWT says 'But no, by your Lord, they can have no Iman, until they make you the judge in all disputes between them.' [TMQ: An-Nisa: 65]

Our community must, as a fundamental priority, ensure that we secure our values and hold onto our Deen strongly in the face of all the negativity about Islam in the media and society in general.

We can only counter the lies and misconceptions about Islam and carry the correct message of Islam to the wider society if we keep Islam at the top of our agenda and focus our energies in this direction, rather than trying to side with politicians, who simply court Muslims for their own selfish desire to achieve power.

The recent attacks by Jim Fitzpatrick MP and journalist Andrew Gilligan on the Islamic Forum Europe proved, if proof was needed, that the secular system and secular parties want Muslims to abandon policies based on Islam and adopt the secular values of the parties. The hopeless track record of the current Muslim MPs is clear proof of how they must abandon our communities and Islamic values to remain within those parties. The path of voting for, and participating in, these secular parties will no doubt bring harm rather than any good to our community.

Muslims need to hold fast to Islamic values and follow a political path based upon Islam and unity of the Muslim community – enjoining the good and forbidding the munkar – and resist the false promises of influence in this kufr system at the price of losing our deen. It is Islam alone that gives this community dignity and honour and if we lose that, no amount of political activity could ever deliver meaningful results.

O ye who believe! Be conscious of Allah as you aught to be conscious of Him, and die not except in a state of Islam. And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah’s favor on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the Pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make His Signs clear to you: that ye may be guided. Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: they are the ones to attain felicity. Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: for them is a dreadful Penalty) (Surah al-Imran 3: 102-105).
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Supreme
04-23-2010, 03:12 PM
I shall be voting Liberal Democrat. It is the first time I am able to vote, and as a liberal and advocate of change, there is really no other option.
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Trumble
04-23-2010, 05:22 PM
I'll be voting for the Green Party, in the absence of any Respect or 'proper' socialist candidates. The 'big three' are all as bad as each other and none offer any meaningful 'change', just variations on the same old tired themes.
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Supreme
04-23-2010, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'll be voting for the Green Party, in the absence of any Respect or 'proper' socialist candidates. The 'big three' are all as bad as each other and none offer any meaningful 'change', just variations on the same old tired themes.
I personally think that the Green Party is just a waste of a vote. I also cannot realistically envision a Green party government. Could you imagine the reforms they'd push through- most people don't care about Global Warming, but when the government starts to force you to make lifestyle changes you may disagree with...

The Liberal Democrats should not be categorized as the same as Labour or the laughable mockery of politics that is the Tory party. They haven't been in government, ever, and some of their policies, particularly concerning greater cooperation with our European neighbours, are to be welcomed.
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tango92
04-23-2010, 05:54 PM
labours worked so far. im quite happy with my life at the moment thank you very much. but with hung parliment this yr its gonna have to be lib dem, cause of some of their major policies, like trident and not wanting to go to iraq, hopefully theyll have more influence this time
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Skavau
04-23-2010, 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'll be voting for the Green Party, in the absence of any Respect or 'proper' socialist candidates. The 'big three' are all as bad as each other and none offer any meaningful 'change', just variations on the same old tired themes.
I could never bring myself to vote for Respect. Galloway is such a slimey character.
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Supreme
04-23-2010, 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by tango92
labours worked so far. im quite happy with my life at the moment thank you very much. but with hung parliment this yr its gonna have to be lib dem, cause of some of their major policies, like trident and not wanting to go to iraq, hopefully theyll have more influence this time
I think the Liberal Democrats are absoloutely right with regard to Iraq. Ironically, their policy regarding Trident is the only policy of theirs I don't agree with. With Iran and North Korea suspected of developing nuclear weapons, we can never be sure when they will become essential use.
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Trumble
04-23-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I personally think that the Green Party is just a waste of a vote. I also cannot realistically envision a Green party government. Could you imagine the reforms they'd push through- most people don't care about Global Warming, but when the government starts to force you to make lifestyle changes you may disagree with...
No such thing as a wasted vote, unless you are voting for the Monster Raving Looney Party and such. I'd rather vote with my conscience than for any of Labour, Tory or Lib Dem. The lamentable fact that 'most people don't care about Global Warming' is no reason to endorse that idiotic position.

The Liberal Democrats should not be categorized as the same as Labour or the laughable mockery of politics that is the Tory party
Quite right; they are even worse than either as they are completely ideologically bankrupt while at least the others are only partially so even when that ideology stinks. The Lib Dems swing from Left, to Centre and back again are now even tottering Right-wise on an almost monthly basis, with new 'policies' to match, in the hope of fooling the public into taking them seriously.
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Supreme
04-23-2010, 07:44 PM
No such thing as a wasted vote, unless you are voting for the Monster Raving Looney Party and such. I'd rather vote with my conscience than for any of Labour, Tory or Lib Dem. The lamentable fact that 'most people don't care about Global Warming' is no reason to endorse that idiotic position.
Actually, after just visiting the Green Party website, I have to admit the bulk of their policies are to my liking. Nevertheless, I can't see the Greens coming into any position of power any time soon, and therefore it is just as much of a waste of a vote in my opinion as voting for UKIP, the BNP or Plaid Cymru would be.

The Lib Dems swing from Left, to Centre and back again are now even tottering Right-wise on an almost monthly basis, with new 'policies' to match, in the hope of fooling the public into taking them seriously.
Well, the public evidently take the Liberal Democrats more seriously than they do Greens- how many Green MPs are there again? None. Not to mention their abhorrent performance at last years European elections...
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Skavau
04-23-2010, 08:18 PM
The idea of a 'waste of vote' is what has perpetuated the dominance of two parties, Supreme. If most people stopped believing it was true, we would have situations where it would no longer be true.
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Trumble
04-23-2010, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by Skavau
The idea of a 'waste of vote' is what has perpetuated the dominance of two parties, Supreme. If most people stopped believing it was true, we would have situations where it would no longer be true.
Exactly. It just perpetuates continual arrogance, unaccountability, mediocrity and the complete absence of any meaningful change. Generally the more a party bangs on about 'change' the more clueless they are as to how to actually deliver it; the Tories are a classic case in point this time.

It's not that long ago that a vote for the Lib Dems (or Liberals) was claimed to be a 'wasted' one by the Tories and Labour, and that their MP count was in single figures. And most of those were 'personality' figures in Scotland and the South West where people were voting for the individual not the party. That changed simply when enough people got so sick of the existing mainstream choices they wouldn't vote for either, and that can happen with three parties in the mix just as easily as with two.
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LauraS
04-23-2010, 10:45 PM
I don't see why some Muslims say they won't vote in the general election because it shows they are supporting a government that invades Islamic countries but they live here, contributing to the very country. :hmm:

As for me, I'm not sure, I quite like the idea of pulling away from the EU and it's control. What would really influence my vote are any changes that would be made to the terrible justice system we have in this country at the moment and "human rights" that are all about protecting the criminals and not the victims of crime. Out of the major parties I'm leaning towards the conservatives I think. Although the fox hunting issue really bothers me lol. :raging:
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Beardo
04-23-2010, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I don't see why some Muslims say they won't vote in the general election because it shows they are supporting a government that invades Islamic countries but they live here, contributing to the very country. :hmm:
Voting is perhaps a sensitive issue to Muslims, but do keep in mind, we don't argue with taxes etc. We pay our taxes, with or without complaining. :D

By the way, I'm glad you've mixed in with the forum. I apologize in advance for the registration troubles you had to experience, as well as the delays in responsiveness.
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LauraS
04-23-2010, 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Voting is perhaps a sensitive issue to Muslims, but do keep in mind, we don't argue with taxes etc. We pay our taxes, with or without complaining. :D

By the way, I'm glad you've mixed in with the forum. I apologize in advance for the registration troubles you had to experience, as well as the delays in responsiveness.
That's ok!

I think when it comes to complaining about taxes, we're all in it together. ;D
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nocturnal
04-24-2010, 01:30 AM
In all probability, i think i will end up voting Labour. Despite my profound misgivings in the sphere of foreign policy, i think this election is overwhelmingly about domestic issues and i think under Labour and their focus on sustaining the recovery and creating new jobs while protecting existing ones, the country will be in a safe pair of hands.

Regarding the deficit, the government knows that public spending will have to be pared down substantially, but it must be done in a measured and sensible manner taking into account that we are only just emerging from a crippling globabl recession. I feel confident that Labour is up to the task but given the state of the opinion polls at present, im not sure if they can quite pull it off this time round.
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ardianto
04-24-2010, 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
I'll be voting for the Green Party, in the absence of any Respect or 'proper' socialist candidates. The 'big three' are all as bad as each other and none offer any meaningful 'change', just variations on the same old tired themes.
I thought you are in USA. :D
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Supreme
04-24-2010, 09:36 PM
Gordon Brown has attacked Conservative NHS plans - and been joined by an Elvis impersonator - as he sought to "up the tempo" of Labour's election campaign.

He urged voters to "look at the small print" of Tory health policy at a rally with supporters, before being joined by the Elvis singing "The Wonder of You".

Tories mocked the stunt and said people were "fed up of Labour scaremongering".

Meanwhile, four polls for Sunday papers suggest the Tories remain in the lead - although still short of a majority.

Labour were placed third in three of the surveys, while one showed a nine-point slump in Lib Dem support. However, the figures reveal little consistency in changes to voting preference.

A ComRes poll of 1,006 adults on Friday and Saturday for The Independent on Sunday and Sunday Mirror shows the Tories on 34% - up three points on last Sunday's poll - the Lib Dems in second place with 29% (no change) and Labour third on 28% (up one).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8641360.stm

An Elvis impersonator? Brown must be desperate!
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1Ummah1Deen
04-27-2010, 10:48 PM
Salams, just wanted to ask the muslims out there are you aware that it is not actually permissible to vote in democratic elections (it's haraam)? There are so many of the ummah who really don't see the problem with voting and the case now is, it is being encouraged. We must understand why this action is haraam as we do not want to do anything which may result in us going to Jahannam.
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aadil77
04-28-2010, 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by 1Ummah1Deen
Salams, just wanted to ask the muslims out there are you aware that it is not actually permissible to vote in democratic elections (it's haraam)? There are so many of the ummah who really don't see the problem with voting and the case now is, it is being encouraged. We must understand why this action is haraam as we do not want to do anything which may result in us going to Jahannam.
Bro/sis many scholars say its permissable and actually encourage it, others say it isnt. Its not a clear subject as there's many sides to the argument.
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1Ummah1Deen
04-28-2010, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Bro/sis many scholars say its permissable and actually encourage it, others say it isnt. Its not a clear subject as there's many sides to the argument.
Salams, i know that there are many sheikhs approving voting and there are so many campaigns to encourage muslims to vote BUT i have yet to hear an argument approving of voting in democracy using a clear cut evidence from quran or sunnah.

Just to clarify electing is giving the power of attorney (authority) to someone to do things on your behalf and is halaal (permitted) in general.

However, in secular democracy electing or voting means to give someone – man or woman – the authority to make laws instead of Allah, denying His (swt) sole right to make laws that manage our lives. This is categorically forbidden (haram).

La Ilaha Illa Allah means Worship, Legislation, Ruling, Obedience, Loyalty and friendship are only with Almighty Allah (swt) alone. No one worthy of worship except Him, no one worthy of obedience except Him, no one has the right to legislate except Him, no rules worthy of implementation except His Divine Rules, we’re only loyal to Him and no one is our friend except Him alone (swt) and the Believers.

“Indeed legislation (ruling, judgment, command) is only for Allah; He has commanded that you shall not serve aught but Him; this is the right religion but most people do not know” (TMQ 12:40)


“Or have they partners (of Allah) who have made lawful for them in religion that which Allah allowed not? (TMQ 42:21)

To legislate or make rules by other than what Allah (swt) has revealed is absolutely forbidden. Allah (swt) gives His law the superiority, and commands that it should be implemented to rule between people and solve their problem. Allah SWT describes those who do not rule by His Shariah to be the disbelievers, oppressors or transgressors.

“And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the disbelievers …oppressors… transgressors” (TMQ 5:44,45,47) )

In addition, our Iman is not complete unless we seek judgment and ruling by that which the Prophet (saw) has brought from Allah (swt)


“But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission” (TMQ 4:65)

By voluntarily voting in a democratic system based on a secular constitution we willingly choose and authorise man to legislate and legalise evil (Munkar) and rule according to it. We authorise –willingly and happily- man to implement a system that is known for its corruption in all aspects of life; political, economic, social, educational…etc. Not only that, but we also –willingly- authorise and request them to protect and preserve this kufr (man-made) system and this way of life!

Accordingly, based on clear cut evidences from the Quran, participation in the general election is a clear Haraam act, as it compromises the foundation of the Islamic Aqeedah.

I understand there is a lot of debate going on and many of the ummah are confused but we must take the responsibility to find out what the ruling is according to quran and sunnah, not just rely on other peoples opinions.
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~Raindrop~
04-28-2010, 09:06 PM
:sl:
The way I see it, by NOT voting, we're allowing parties like the BNP to gain more power. Why do you think they won a seat in Oldham? Simply because most of the women (and some men) decided not to vote. If they had used their right to vote, this could have been prevented. It's all very well saying that don't vote, but seriously, think of the consequences.
:wa:
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S<Chowdhury
04-28-2010, 09:11 PM
Anyone apart from BNP and all other racist parties and the Conservative :raging:
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~Raindrop~
04-28-2010, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by S<Chowdhury
Anyone apart from BNP and all other racist parties and the Conservative :raging:
:?:?:?
What do you mean?
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aadil77
04-28-2010, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by S<Chowdhury
Anyone apart from BNP and all other racist parties and the Conservative :raging:
Bro all parties are against islam in someway or another, I voted lib dems cause of a local muslim mp, but this guy supports 'our boys' in afghanistan! Theres that muslim mp salma yaqoob in brum, she supports homosexuality! We will be voting against islamic principles in some way anyway, its just about who's gonna benefit the muslims the most in the end. We need mp's up in parliament - we've only got for 4 compared to 59 jewish mp's.
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marwen
04-28-2010, 09:22 PM
lol this may be off-topic :
Gordon Brown's Open Mic Voter Insult on the Election Trail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfwh0BifCZc
after the interview he said : she's a Disaster ! lol
lol never forget your mic on ;D
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Skavau
04-28-2010, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Bro all parties are against islam in someway or another, I voted lib dems cause of a local muslim mp, but this guy supports 'our boys' in afghanistan! Theres that muslim mp salma yaqoob in brum, she supports homosexuality! We will be voting against islamic principles in some way anyway, its just about who's gonna benefit the muslims the most in the end. We need mp's up in parliament - we've only got for 4 compared to 59 jewish mp's.
Salma Yaqoob isn't elected. She's standing (and is now the leader of) for the Respect Party, a socialist leaning party that tries to gather support from Muslims by opposing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Supreme
04-29-2010, 04:18 PM
Gordon Brown looked like a right idiot yesterday. My dad is basically doing this, putting these parties:

Labour
Conservatives
Liberal Democrats
Green Party
BNP
UKIP
Christian Party
Monster Raving Loony Party

in a hat and selecting one at random before the voting day. He's going to vote for whichever party he pulls out the hat. He doesn't care. He's sick of all politicians, but may as well use his voting right.
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aadil77
04-29-2010, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Gordon Brown looked like a right idiot yesterday. My dad is basically doing this, putting these parties:

Labour
Conservatives
Liberal Democrats
Green Party
BNP
UKIP
Christian Party
Monster Raving Loony Party

in a hat and selecting one at random before the voting day. He's going to vote for whichever party he pulls out the hat. He doesn't care. He's sick of all politicians, but may as well use his voting right.
I'm not good with all this election stuff, but I thought you only get a choice from about 5-6 parties in the vote, or does it depend on which ones working in your area?
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Supreme
04-29-2010, 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I'm not good with all this election stuff, but I thought you only get a choice from about 5-6 parties in the vote, or does it depend on which ones working in your area?
I think it depends, although I have never voted before. This is the first time I am able.
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Skavau
04-29-2010, 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
I'm not good with all this election stuff, but I thought you only get a choice from about 5-6 parties in the vote, or does it depend on which ones working in your area?
Yes it does matter who is working in your area. Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative have got people standing in every constituency in Britain. UKIP have got people standing in about 90%+ of areas with the BNP and Green standing in about 60% of areas. Some parties only stand in about 4 or 5 constituencies.
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glo
04-29-2010, 07:09 PM
We are actually having a Monster Raving Loony Party candidate this year ...
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Trumble
04-29-2010, 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
. We need mp's up in parliament - we've only got for 4 compared to 59 jewish mp's.
List the 59 please; I can't think of more than five Jewish MPs in the last Parliament.
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Blackpool
05-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Originally Posted by LauraS
I don't see why some Muslims say they won't vote in the general election because it shows they are supporting a government that invades Islamic countries but they live here, contributing to the very country. :hmm:

As for me, I'm not sure, I quite like the idea of pulling away from the EU and it's control. What would really influence my vote are any changes that would be made to the terrible justice system we have in this country at the moment and "human rights" that are all about protecting the criminals and not the victims of crime. Out of the major parties I'm leaning towards the conservatives I think. Although the fox hunting issue really bothers me lol. :raging:
Take a look at UKip. Very tough on immigration, they want to completely close the borders, very Euro-sceptic so they'd pull out of the EU and they are a party that puts the British first.
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aadil77
05-06-2010, 09:09 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
List the 59 please; I can't think of more than five Jewish MPs in the last Parliament.
I don't know exactly I heard this at a mosque sermon about voting, but heres a list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...sh_politicians not sure how many are still around

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-special...ars-jewish-mps
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glo
05-06-2010, 10:19 AM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Take a look at UKip. Very tough on immigration, they want to completely close the borders, very Euro-sceptic so they'd pull out of the EU and they are a party that puts the British first.
The question is, are the British off best on their own? Or better off joint with others?

Britain ain't an Empire any more, don't you know?
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Blackpool
05-06-2010, 10:29 AM
Originally Posted by glo
The question is, are the British off best on their own? Or better off joint with others?

Britain ain't an Empire any more, don't you know?
Britain is best when using immigrants for its own benefit. Immigrants pouring into Britain from overseas isn't best for Britain. British jobs should go to British workers, dolers should be forced be forced back into work and if there are vacancies in jobs that the British simply cannot fill then it is only then that we should look overseas. If they leave that job then they should be made to leave the country immediately. If I were leader I would strip those not born here of their citizenships and have them to EARN it through 10yrs work in Britain on their best behaviour without rights of benefits until after 5 years. If there are no vacancies then they should then be deported. By doing this it would leave more houses and jobs for British people, we wouldn't be having our cash being sent overseas to families and there would be very few claiming benefits.
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aadil77
05-06-2010, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
. If they leave that job then they should be made to leave the country immediately. If I were leader I would strip those not born here of their citizenships and have them to EARN it through 10yrs work in Britain on their best behaviour without rights of benefits until after 5 years. If there are no vacancies then they should then be deported. By doing this it would leave more houses and jobs for British people, we wouldn't be having our cash being sent overseas to families and there would be very few claiming benefits.
Thank god you're not the leader, people have to leave work for certain reasons. If people have already been given citizenship it would be unfair to 'strip' them of it. Ofcourse theres always vacancies and you can't just deport them if they can't get work, we should create jobs instead by subsidising firms and making it easier for people to get jobs.

Yes there should be stricter conditions to immigration and recieving benefits
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Blackpool
05-06-2010, 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Thank god you're not the leader, people have to leave work for certain reasons. If people have already been given citizenship it would be unfair to 'strip' them of it. Ofcourse theres always vacancies and you can't just deport them if they can't get work, we should create jobs instead by subsidising firms and making it easier for people to get jobs.

Yes there should be stricter conditions to immigration and recieving benefits
Of course we can deport immigrants that are out of work. If they're out of work then we simply do not need them as they're not making a contribution, they do not belong here so why should we let them continue living here unemployed? It's silly the way Britisih citizenships are being handed out like sweets. People in Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe etc would kill for a British passport! Abu Hamza was granted British citizenship which says it all don't you think? I'm all for loyalty and the British born people should come 1st.
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S_87
05-06-2010, 11:15 AM
If I were leader I would strip those not born here of their citizenships and have them to EARN it through 10yrs work in Britain on their best behaviour without rights of benefits until after 5 years.
i wasnt born here nor have i ever taken benifits nor ever been in trouble..so youd strip me of my citizenship for what? (been here since i was 5)

as for votes, not voting
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Blackpool
05-06-2010, 11:36 AM
Have you done your 10 years contribution of working? If so, then you should be allowed to keep your citizenship. If you have done 5 years work then yes you should be stripped of your citizenship until you have done your 10 years. If you aren't working or aren't filling a gap that cannot be filled by a British born citizen then you should be deported back to your homeland. If you're doing a job that cannot be filled by a British born citizen then you should be granted stay to do that work until you leave it, unless you've done your 10 years and have applied for citizenship. We should use immigrants for OUR benefit not for THEIR benefit. Immigrants need to earn their right to stay and they definitely need to earn their right to citizenship. It may sound harsh to you but that is my opinion. We are currently a soft touch for immigration and eventually it is going to change...
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S_87
05-06-2010, 11:51 AM
well since im not old enough to have DONE 10 years of work no i havent :D my parents have though...

do u know how ridiculous that sounds by the way? you cant strip people who have lived here for all their lives..
Having said that i do thing something needs to be done about immigration and benifit system. BUT stripping people is not the way
oh btw in my country of birth theres loads of brits who have migrated, should the same count for them?
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-06-2010, 12:08 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
Have you done your 10 years contribution of working? If so, then you should be allowed to keep your citizenship. If you have done 5 years work then yes you should be stripped of your citizenship until you have done your 10 years. If you aren't working or aren't filling a gap that cannot be filled by a British born citizen then you should be deported back to your homeland. If you're doing a job that cannot be filled by a British born citizen then you should be granted stay to do that work until you leave it, unless you've done your 10 years and have applied for citizenship. We should use immigrants for OUR benefit not for THEIR benefit. Immigrants need to earn their right to stay and they definitely need to earn their right to citizenship. It may sound harsh to you but that is my opinion. We are currently a soft touch for immigration and eventually it is going to change...
What are you? a lawmaker or something?? seriously, immigration is not a big problem in UK as much as it is here on US-Mexico border. You dont see as much drug smuggling by immigrants there like you see on U.S. borders. If you lose your job, I think you should be deported aswell...to a mental facility.
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LauraS
05-06-2010, 03:10 PM
I'm excited. :D
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Supreme
05-06-2010, 04:44 PM
So am I, Laura. I want to stay up all night to see who wins. But I've got college tomorrow, so...
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Trumble
05-06-2010, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
So am I, Laura. I want to stay up all night to see who wins. But I've got college tomorrow, so...
Heck, just do both. Coffee and Lucozade will fuel you long enough. :statisfie
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Muezzin
05-06-2010, 06:15 PM
I never tell anyone who I vote for. I like to keep people guessing. It's fun.
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Esther462
05-06-2010, 06:48 PM
I've voted Labor because I like my MP but not a fan of the party. I might stay up to watch the results but I might fall asleep in front of the TV.
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LauraS
05-06-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm rubbish at staying up late, I don't think I'd manage. :P Hello by the way, you're the first Bhuddist I've met on here. :)
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Darth Ultor
05-07-2010, 06:49 PM
Since the election ended in a hung parliament, what happens now? Do they hold another vote?
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glo
05-07-2010, 07:35 PM
I think a hung parliament may not be such a bad thing.
At least it means that not just one party is in power and can run away, doing what they like. Instead they will have to team up with one of the smaller parties (most importantly the LibDems) to get anywhere at all!

It also means that we have a good chance (with the LibDems as the driving power) to change the voting system to a fairer representation.

In yesterday's election, the Conservatives were voted by 36% of all voters ... but they gained 47% of all seats!
Labour were voted by 29% of all voters ... but gained 40% of all seats!
The LibDems were voted by 23% of all voters ... but only gained 11% of all seats!
How is that a fair voting system??! :heated:

Good news is that the BNP got nowhere!!
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Rabi'ya
05-07-2010, 07:39 PM
Yeh, the BNP lost seats. thank goodness.

We shall wait to see what happens next.
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Skavau
05-07-2010, 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Boaz
Since the election ended in a hung parliament, what happens now? Do they hold another vote?
No, they try and run government. If it collapses, then yes another vote - and given the parliament composition I expect another election in a year. Perhaps with a slight change on the FPP.
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M..x
05-07-2010, 09:06 PM
Galloway.. a slimey character? You whhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaat? I think he's brilliant.
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Skavau
05-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Originally Posted by M..x
Galloway.. a slimey character? You whhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaat? I think he's brilliant.
He's very charismatic, but I wouldn't call him the most dignified and squeaky-clean of characters. He works on the Muslim vote for his anti-war, anti-american and anti-capitalist stance and founded basically a socialist party based on this. He also didn't win his seat this time round and neither did any other Respect candidates.
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Asiyah3
05-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Blackpool
If I were leader I would strip those not born here of their citizenships and have them to EARN it through 10yrs work in Britain on their best behaviour without rights of benefits until after 5 years. If there are no vacancies then they should then be deported.
How can you just like that drive away people who have grown up in Britain all their life? Because there were no vacancies for them to work? How is that their fault? Aren't you being a bit too undrestanding or thoughtful..

By doing this it would leave more houses and jobs for British people,
I agree with few you've said, but some others I fully disagree with. On one hand you complain that if a person doesn't work for a reason that might be as well acceptable (which you seem to be fully inconsiderate of "If they leave that job then they should be made to leave the country immediately." ), one the other hand you claim that they shouldn't get jobs, because it belongs to the British.


we wouldn't be having our cash being sent overseas to families
What do you mean?

and there would be very few claiming benefits.
mhm, but to me, some policies you mentioned are unreasonable.
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Supreme
05-07-2010, 11:06 PM
Originally Posted by ~SilverOrchid~
Yeh, the BNP lost seats. thank goodness.

We shall wait to see what happens next.
The BNP didn't have any seats to loose in the first place- but they were humiliated by coming third in the only constituency they stood a decent chance in.

I don't want the Lib Dems to form a government with the Tories. They need to form one with Labour, whose economic and political policies are far more similar. Anything to keep out the posh, slimy, stuck up, over confident, Noddy look alike of a joke, David "Just call me Dave" (cos I think I'm a really cool guy) Cameron.
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Life_Is_Short
05-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I voted for Lib dems. My first vote and i didn't think with my head. Oh well, it's a hung parliament anyway. :p
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LauraS
05-07-2010, 11:11 PM
It's law and order policies I'm really interested in. At the moment we're far too soft it's help for the criminals and not the victims. The Liberal Democrat policies weren't very impressive on that score and we know Labour doesn't even know the meaning of the word justice, that's the problem. I'm hoping if the Conservatives get in they'll be tougher. UKIPs law and order policies were the strongest.
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Supreme
05-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by LauraS
It's law and order policies I'm really interested in. At the moment we're far too soft it's help for the criminals and not the victims. The Liberal Democrat policies weren't very impressive on that score and we know Labour doesn't even know the meaning of the word justice, that's the problem. I'm hoping if the Conservatives get in they'll be tougher. UKIPs law and order policies were the strongest.
I agree, even as a liberal, that criminals aren't treated as harshly as one may like them to be. I remember the Baby P case- a few years in jail and a hidden identity worth a million pounds, all at the expense of the taxpayer, for child murderers. However, the parties are actually very similar in the UK, and with regards to policies like crime, there is no detail. Saying you're going to get the police on the streets instead of them doing paperwork is too blurred a policy, and the Tories, despite being the right wing party out of the three, have no true conservative is republican plans with regard to crime.
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LauraS
05-07-2010, 11:24 PM
Yeah the "more police on the street" thing doesn't mean anything to me. What these police need is to be able to make arrests and not have the criminals released straight away. Shoplifting is now an offence that just recieves a warning. We need to gove more power to citizens to stand up against criminals, like the example of the man who was punched in the face by a group of muggers, he managed to hold onto one until the police arrived and was later arrested himself for assault of the youth while the youth was released. What the hell?! Jamie Bulger's killers should never have been given new identities, if people track them down, well who cares? Human Rights interference from the EU really don't help situations either. An illegal immigrant African rapist was recently given the right to remian in the country thanks to Human Rights while a hard working Jamaican nurse was sent away when her visa was up. It doesn't make any sense at all.
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Skavau
05-10-2010, 04:55 PM
Brown has stepped down as Labour leader:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politi...10/8672859.stm
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nocturnal
05-10-2010, 08:20 PM
I think everyone in the Labour top brass needs to remain reticent until the Lib Dems decide which way they are going to go. In terms of the impending leadership contest, im expecting Milliband, Harman, Johnson and Balls to vie for the leadership.
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Skavau
05-10-2010, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by nocturnal
I think everyone in the Labour top brass needs to remain reticent until the Lib Dems decide which way they are going to go. In terms of the impending leadership contest, im expecting Milliband, Harman, Johnson and Balls to vie for the leadership.
Harriet Harman lost her seat.
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nocturnal
05-10-2010, 11:38 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about that. That and Jacqui Smith loosing her seat were among the biggest losses Labour suffered on the night. Probably tantamount to Lembit Opik of the Lib Dems loosing his seat too i suppose.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-10-2010, 11:40 PM
British political system is too confusing...I have no clue whats going on...:-[ ...All I know is that Gordon left his party...and he sure is dumb like bush(may the curse of Allah be upon him).
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Zafran
05-11-2010, 04:12 AM
Salaam

at this point we have no leader leading the country.............
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Trumble
05-11-2010, 06:39 AM
Originally Posted by Skavau
Harriet Harman lost her seat.
No, she didn't.
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Skavau
05-11-2010, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
No, she didn't.
Am I mistaking her with Jacqui Smith? The former home secretary? One of them lost their seat.
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Supreme
05-11-2010, 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
British political system is too confusing...I have no clue whats going on...:-[ ...All I know is that Gordon left his party...and he sure is dumb like bush(may the curse of Allah be upon him).
LOL. Gordon Brown isn't dumb, in any sense of the word. He's actually one of the most intelligent Prime Ministers this country has had for years. I hold him in high regard simply because of his intelligence, as well as his economic experience.

at this point we have no leader leading the country.............
Yes we do. Do you think we'd ever NOT have a Prime Minister? Gordon Brown's announced that he'll leave in September, and he will probably only be leader of the opposition by then.

Am I mistaking her with Jacqui Smith? The former home secretary? One of them lost their seat.
Yeah, you are mistaking them.
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Supreme
05-11-2010, 07:57 PM
No! David Cameron is now our Prime Minister!
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LauraS
05-11-2010, 09:14 PM
*whispers* am I the only one that doesn't mind this?

They better not try to reintroduce hunting. :(
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islamirama
05-11-2010, 11:47 PM
So for rest of us non-Brits, how is this david guy? How anti-islamic is he compared to that Gordon clown?
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-12-2010, 04:31 AM
David whoo??? ^^
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Supreme
05-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by islamirama
So for rest of us non-Brits, how is this david guy? How anti-islamic is he compared to that Gordon clown?
David Cameron has never, to my knowledge, even mentioned Islam on camera or in public. He's more of a problem for everyone than just Muslims. I think everyone will suffer together under his economic plans and inexperienced moronic Etonian buddies ruling the country.
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a2films
05-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Please don't mind but why does an Islamic forum have a thread dedicated to elections of a nation that's so obsessed with English that they might change their menu if Oxford decides to interchange the terms food and **** ?

I know its "World Affairs" section but i thought it meant World Affairs from a Muslims perspective and how it affects the Islamic community.

If we can't stop giving importance to such people then its our ignorant gratitude that becomes the reason why we are treated with such ill manner all over the globe.
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Blackpool
05-13-2010, 04:04 PM
What a ridiculous question. British politics affects every British muslim living in this country. British politics affects many people overseas too... :hmm:
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a2films
05-14-2010, 03:39 PM
@Blackpool
Originally Posted by Blackpool
What a ridiculous question. British politics affects every British Muslim living in this country. British politics affects many people overseas too... :hmm:
Whoever that moron is who's gonna be the next PM, its not going to change anything especially when Jews are all geared up to rebuilt their temple once again(follow the website of temple institute) as it requires more tarnishing of Islam's image so people may not feel sympathetic when Al-Aqsa is brought down.

BTW Russia is a bigger nuclear power than U.K and there are more Muslims in Russia than in U.K not to mention the Kosovo & Chechnya issue, ever thought why news does not gives much importance to them ?
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Supreme
05-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by a2films
@Blackpool

Whoever that moron is who's gonna be the next PM, its not going to change anything especially when Jews are all geared up to rebuilt their temple once again(follow the website of temple institute) as it requires more tarnishing of Islam's image so people may not feel sympathetic when Al-Aqsa is brought down.

BTW Russia is a bigger nuclear power than U.K and there are more Muslims in Russia than in U.K not to mention the Kosovo & Chechnya issue, ever thought why news does not gives much importance to them ?
...because it's British news?

I also don't know how the first part of your post is relevant to a new Prime Minister taking office.
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Skavau
05-14-2010, 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by a2films
@Blackpool

Whoever that moron is who's gonna be the next PM, its not going to change anything especially when Jews are all geared up to rebuilt their temple once again(follow the website of temple institute) as it requires more tarnishing of Islam's image so people may not feel sympathetic when Al-Aqsa is brought down.

BTW Russia is a bigger nuclear power than U.K and there are more Muslims in Russia than in U.K not to mention the Kosovo & Chechnya issue, ever thought why news does not gives much importance to them ?
There aren't enough Russian members on here to report the happenings in Chechnya.
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