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gladTidings
04-21-2010, 05:01 PM
:sl:

For muslims its a command of God. For non-muslims, its sometimes difficult to comprehend, this dude is spot on:

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aadil77
04-21-2010, 05:18 PM
Wow didn't know modesty exists amongst non-muslims, that guy should become muslim
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 07:11 PM
^Yeah In fact you can look at the Nuns, and their are a few Catholics who follow that thought of Modesty i dunno bout the rest tho ....
Im sure its mentioned in the Bible to cover up and other religions , like look at Hindus, In India you will see a lot of Hindu women cover...but then again maybe thats just culture Allahu alam...
but you can also the Jewish women cover and they have beards etc
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PouringRain
04-21-2010, 07:20 PM
The Bible talks about modesty and modesty is preached on in most Christian churches. You see it in practice more amongst conservative Christians than liberals.
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aadil77
04-21-2010, 07:24 PM
Modesty is rare trait now a days amongst non muslims, hindu's used to cover up but now alot of them are influenced by the westernised bollywood culture - kind of same with sikhs, christians nuns are an existing example and I think orthodox jewish women cover up too.
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PouringRain
04-21-2010, 07:31 PM
I must have lived in a lot of really conservative places, because I have not seen modesty to be as rare as many of you write about. :) I must not hang out in the right places....... or the wrong places.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 07:43 PM
Well truee@ brother aadil77 ...things have changed a lot i guess, some people talk about how its good to cover up etc and still they do the opposite...
Pouring rain...well thats true in some areas. i mean i have lots of people who dress modestly here where i live but i have also seen loads of people who dont dress modestly....and esp in Summer, people tend to start cutting down on clothing.coz they have no reason to keep it on, "because its tooo hott" :\.....but there are still people who cover up in Summer..
Maybe you should tour the world a lil more aye :\ and surely you will see parts and places where people cover up and people who dont..so yeahh
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
The Bible talks about modesty and modesty is preached on in most Christian churches. You see it in practice more amongst conservative Christians than liberals.
Yeah true that , The Noble Qur`aan talks about modesty too...:)...
yet theres Christians or muslims who still choose not to be modest....
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CosmicPathos
04-21-2010, 07:58 PM
These immodest behaviors that we encounter today, they were unheard of 500 years ago. Prostitution etc were common but such vile displays of one's body, one's arrogance etc were not common. How arrogant human beings can become! A man shows off his deezed muscles in arrogance by wearing tight t-shirts but does he know that one day it will be mixed in dust ... a woman shows off her curves and is proud of it as if it belongs to her but she forgets that she will be dust one day ... I guess I am weird and think differently ... but thats what Ive learnt from life.
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MMohammed
04-21-2010, 08:13 PM
Well, every religion orders modesty except only some foolish ones(no offence and I am not talking about Christianity,Hinduism or whatever.But there are some funny believes!)
What I've experienced is that if you become more modern, you may encounter more problems.Live Simple, Live Good!
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aadil77
04-21-2010, 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
I must have lived in a lot of really conservative places, because I have not seen modesty to be as rare as many of you write about. :) I must not hang out in the right places....... or the wrong places.
Really? I'd love to know where you've lived

hopefully the people in your area dress modestly like the christian nuns below



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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 08:40 PM
I rarely see nuns in my area, but have seen some....But SubhaanAllaah they do dress modestly and im sure there are jewish women who dress like this (total burqa/abaya n ofcourse hijaab)? or maybe im wrong...so yeah...
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MMohammed
04-21-2010, 10:04 PM
@Picture.Its just like Burqa, isn't it? :)
Hindu women are also modest
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
^Yes it is. . . . . . . .
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PouringRain
04-21-2010, 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
Pouring rain...well thats true in some areas. i mean i have lots of people who dress modestly here where i live but i have also seen loads of people who dont dress modestly....and esp in Summer, people tend to start cutting down on clothing.coz they have no reason to keep it on, "because its tooo hott" :\.....but there are still people who cover up in Summer..
Maybe you should tour the world a lil more aye :\ and surely you will see parts and places where people cover up and people who dont..so yeahh
I have toured the world quite a bit. I have lived in and visited more than 6 different countries. I can honestly say that I have never been to Europe, the Middle East, or Africa. I will agree that people are less covered in summer, but other than places I have lived with beaches, for the most part the women are still not immodest.

Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
Yeah true that , The Noble Qur`aan talks about modesty too...:)...
yet theres Christians or muslims who still choose not to be modest....
I agree. Not everyone follows God's words.

Originally Posted by aadil77
Really? I'd love to know where you've lived

hopefully the people in your area dress modestly like the christian nuns below
Are the Christian nuns in the picture below the only thing that you consider to be modest? If that is true then most Muslim women that I have known would be considered quite immodest by your standards. Most people would agree that the Amish dress quite modestly, or the FLDS women, yet they are not near as covered as the nuns in the picture. Even the man who you applauded in the original video and said "the guy should become muslim" is not talking about the extreme form of modesty displayed by those nuns.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 10:16 PM
There is no such thing as "Extreme form of Modesty"....only thats your opinion, just coz you say it, it is doesnt mean it exists or its classified as extreme. In the west most these may seem strange but in reality they make sense and there is always a purpous behind it...
I dont see anything wrong with following Gods Law...A person isnt forced to cover up but if they want to obey as God Allmighty has commanded it is best for you to do so.since your creator knows all and knows what is best for you..Allaah Allmighty is mercyful, so you may go at your own pace ,step by step to start doing something...and btw Covering up ie. Hijaaab..goes for men also along with women....
Meaning men should dress in a way that doesnt attracts the oposite gender but only his WIFE..vice versa..
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aadil77
04-21-2010, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
Are the Christian nuns in the picture below the only thing that you consider to be modest? If that is true then most Muslim women that I have known would be considered quite immodest by your standards. Most people would agree that the Amish dress quite modestly, or the FLDS women, yet they are not near as covered as the nuns in the picture. Even the man who you applauded in the original video and said "the guy should become muslim" is not talking about the extreme form of modesty displayed by those nuns.
Like the sister said even some muslims choose not to dress completely modestly, by islamic standards that is the modest dress code, you might be able to get away with the same dress but without the head covering. I don't see how that is an 'extreme form of modesty' - its standard for nuns, no?
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-21-2010, 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
I have toured the world quite a bit. I have lived in and visited more than 6 different countries. I can honestly say that I have never been to Europe, the Middle East, or Africa. I will agree that people are less covered in summer, but other than places I have lived with beaches, for the most part the women are still not immodest.
Well ofcourse you wouldnt see modesty at a beach...have you ever tried meeting a muslim in person? hmmm and besides im sure you saw people covering up in Winter, but most people cover coz its cold, but have you ever been around a good muslim family that is practising? or in your case a good proper practising christian that actually obeys what the real teachings of Jesus (as)..and you shouldnt care too much about what modesty you seen around you or not, what about yourself? have you ever tried taking it into thought yourself? how modest you are? look at your own traits first rather than others..hopefully will help more..you live this life for God not these people, but to live with these people as God has commanded...hmm im advising as a muslim btw..you should else what is best
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PouringRain
04-21-2010, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
There is no such thing as "Extreme form of Modesty"....only thats your opinion, just coz you say it, it is doesnt mean it exists or its classified as extreme. In the west most these may seem strange but in reality they make sense and there is always a purpous behind it...
I dont see anything wrong with following Gods Law...A person isnt forced to cover up but if they want to obey as God Allmighty has commanded it is best for you to do so.since your creator knows all and knows what is best for you..Allaah Allmighty is mercyful, so you may go at your own pace ,step by step to start doing something...and btw Covering up ie. Hijaaab..goes for men also along with women....
Meaning men should dress in a way that doesnt attracts the oposite gender but only his WIFE..vice versa..
I used the words "extreme form of modesty" distinguish it from other forms of modest apparel. On a continuum of modesty, being that covered would fall towards the extreme end, with very little types of clothing being even more modest than that. I think you and aadil have misunderstood my use of the word extreme.

I agree that a woman's beauty should only be for her husband.

Originally Posted by aadil77
Like the sister said even some muslims choose not to dress completely modestly, by islamic standards that is the modest dress code, you might be able to get away with the same dress but without the head covering. I don't see how that is an 'extreme form of modesty' - its standard for nuns, no?
See above for my use of the word "extreme" and the context in which I used it.

Not even all nuns are as covered as that.

You didn't answer my previous questions. Is that the only type of dress that you consider to be modest? Would you not consider an Amish or an FLDS to be modestly dressed? How about someone who wears long skirts and long sleeved shirts? At what point would you consider it immodest?

Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
Well ofcourse you wouldnt see modesty at a beach...have you ever tried meeting a muslim in person? hmmm and besides im sure you saw people covering up in Winter, but most people cover coz its cold, but have you ever been around a good muslim family that is practising? or in your case a good proper practising christian that actually obeys what the real teachings of Jesus (as)..and you shouldnt care too much about what modesty you seen around you or not, what about yourself? have you ever tried taking it into thought yourself? how modest you are? look at your own traits first rather than others..hopefully will help more..you live this life for God not these people, but to live with these people as God has commanded...hmm im advising as a muslim btw..you should else what is best
I don't even know where to begin with this post. :) It shows how very little you know me and is full of assumptions.

There can be modesty even at a beach-- as a muslim you should know that. I only used the beach example to reply to a different post as an example of places in the summer that I have seen the most immodesty. If you re-read my previous post we were discussing modesty in both summer and winter.

I have known many Muslims in person, including practicing ones. I used to pray on Fridays with a Muslimah who was very devout and practicing. She is the only Muslim I have known who wears hijab and she told me that she is the only person in her family or among her friends who does. She said that it is not required in her home country and many women do not wear it at all. She is only one of many Muslims I have known in person.

Yes, I have known many practicing Christians. I have known Christians of many denominations and in many walks of life. I have known ones who were extremely conservative and devout, and I have known ones who were quite liberal. One of my best friends wears the head scarf full time.

And finally, you are telling me to look at myself and not at others. This whole thread has been about people looking at others. From the very onset. Even your posts have looked at the modesty/immodesty of others. You ask me how modestly I dress, yet this thread is not about how modestly I dress. :) To be honest, where I live, even my own manner of dress would be considered much more modest than most. This doesn't mean that I can't look around me and notice that others also dress rather modest. It is rare that I see women who I would call immodestly dressed, even though they do not fit in my own level of modesty.
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Ramadhan
04-22-2010, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
I must have lived in a lot of really conservative places, because I have not seen modesty to be as rare as many of you write about. :) I must not hang out in the right places....... or the wrong places.
Maybe your standard of modesty is different from Muslims standards?
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Ramadhan
04-22-2010, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by PouringRain

I have known many Muslims in person, including practicing ones. I used to pray on Fridays with a Muslimah who was very devout and practicing. She is the only Muslim I have known who wears hijab and she told me that she is the only person in her family or among her friends who does. She said that it is not required in her home country and many women do not wear it at all. She is only one of many Muslims I have known in person.
Then she is the only muslim you know who is practicing modesty required as a muslim.
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marwen
04-22-2010, 04:08 AM
Originally Posted by bigups
Modesty should be brought back properly world wide.
I agree with you bigups. In every religion modesty is recommended. It's also implied by morals, and common sense. I don't know why today modesty is not really considered.
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Ummu Sufyaan
04-22-2010, 04:14 AM
:sl:
there is a dominan of Christianity in Russia (i dont know what its called) that their women dress, resembles greatly that of how a Muslim woman dresses ---> long sleeved, long skirt and hijaab...though their hijab does look different, but only very slightly.

I remember seeing a documentary that featured traditional Russians and Modern Russians living in the US and i nearly mistook them as Muslim until they did that holy cross thing across tier faces/chest.
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PouringRain
04-22-2010, 05:01 AM
Originally Posted by naidamar
Maybe your standard of modesty is different from Muslims standards?
I view modesty on a continuum. I was not aware that this thread was only about the Muslim standard, since it began with a video of a Catholic priest and people applauding his standards on modesty. :)
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-22-2010, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
I used the words "extreme form of modesty" distinguish it from other forms of modest apparel. On a continuum of modesty, being that covered would fall towards the extreme end, with very little types of clothing being even more modest than that. I think you and aadil have misunderstood my use of the word extreme.

I agree that a woman's beauty should only be for her husband.



See above for my use of the word "extreme" and the context in which I used it.

Not even all nuns are as covered as that.

You didn't answer my previous questions. Is that the only type of dress that you consider to be modest? Would you not consider an Amish or an FLDS to be modestly dressed? How about someone who wears long skirts and long sleeved shirts? At what point would you consider it immodest?



I don't even know where to begin with this post. :) It shows how very little you know me and is full of assumptions.

There can be modesty even at a beach-- as a muslim you should know that. I only used the beach example to reply to a different post as an example of places in the summer that I have seen the most immodesty. If you re-read my previous post we were discussing modesty in both summer and winter.

I have known many Muslims in person, including practicing ones. I used to pray on Fridays with a Muslimah who was very devout and practicing. She is the only Muslim I have known who wears hijab and she told me that she is the only person in her family or among her friends who does. She said that it is not required in her home country and many women do not wear it at all. She is only one of many Muslims I have known in person.

Yes, I have known many practicing Christians. I have known Christians of many denominations and in many walks of life. I have known ones who were extremely conservative and devout, and I have known ones who were quite liberal. One of my best friends wears the head scarf full time.

And finally, you are telling me to look at myself and not at others. This whole thread has been about people looking at others. From the very onset. Even your posts have looked at the modesty/immodesty of others. You ask me how modestly I dress, yet this thread is not about how modestly I dress. :) To be honest, where I live, even my own manner of dress would be considered much more modest than most. This doesn't mean that I can't look around me and notice that others also dress rather modest. It is rare that I see women who I would call immodestly dressed, even though they do not fit in my own level of modesty.
Okay i take the final part back about looking at yourself before others :\.....maybe im wrong ...
i dont understand what exactly you have propblem with PouringRain? do you see a problem with Modesty of Muslims dress code or something?
anyway back to the topic...Modesty...okay this is my opinion and im not sure if others also agree..but i think Modest is not only to do with the clothing but also the characters and actions of an individual :)
So yeah..indeed :)
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PouringRain
04-22-2010, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
Okay i take the final part back about looking at yourself before others :\.....maybe im wrong ...
i dont understand what exactly you have propblem with PouringRain? do you see a problem with Modesty of Muslims dress code or something?
anyway back to the topic...Modesty...okay this is my opinion and im not sure if others also agree..but i think Modest is not only to do with the clothing but also the characters and actions of an individual :)
So yeah..indeed :)
No, I don't have a problem with how Muslims dress at all. I don't have a problem with anything. I was only trying to point out that most places I have lived and visited tend to be very modest (with the exception of beaches). Everyone was saying how rare modesty is in women these days, and I have found the opposite to be true where the woman who dresses immodest stands apart and is the exception. Most places I have been, the girls/women do not dress as you see on tv or on the internet. I apologize if I wasn't very clear.

I agree that modesty extends beyond how a woman dresses. One day I saw a young women throw herself at a man, draping him with her whole body, in a hug-- in church no less. It was quite obscene.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
04-22-2010, 05:48 PM
^ i understand now, no need to apologise :)....indeed its kool
i guess i maybe misunderstood some parts of what you had posted..
yes there are people who need to have some shame and learn to add "Privacy" into their lives, i mean not to do "stuff" in public..hope you know what i mean...so yeah :)
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crayon
04-23-2010, 08:27 AM
"For muslims its a command of God. For non-muslims, its sometimes difficult to comprehend, this dude is spot on"

So very true. Awesome video, I'm sure it'll be really helpful, jazaki Allah khair for sharing it!
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piXie
08-18-2010, 03:14 PM
Interesting video. But we do not have to understand a man or woman's nature to decide how to conduct ourselves or dress. For us, its enough when our Creator who has made the man and woman tells us how to dress and act. For He knows and understands Human nature more than anyone else. Therefore, if we trust Him and obey Him we are protected and respected - by ourselves and by others.
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Somebody
05-24-2012, 06:37 PM
Bump and thanks. Good post.

:thumbs_up
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-24-2012, 07:09 PM
.............
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Marina-Aisha
05-24-2012, 07:18 PM
great video and soooo true!
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patientgrace
06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
As I was reading through the older posts in the thread, I agree with several aspects of what others were saying. I believe that a woman's beauty should be solely for her husband. I was raised Christian and was raised to be very modest. I do not think it is attractive for a woman to be showing every bit of skin on her body. As I grew up, my hair was fixed plain, the most extravagant thing my mother would do would be two braids in my hair (which for the most part she didn't even like to do, she said it brought attention to me). Also, in church the only thing I ever wore was a dress that was never had a low neckline, it was always long sleeved, and if I was going to wear a dress that was above my ankles, then I had to wear tights/pantyhose underneath.

I raised my daughters pretty much along the same lines, except for the hair thing, they all have such beautiful hair and I did not think that a little girl have pretty hair braids would attract sexual attention. My girls always wear dresses/skirts to church, never pants. They are allowed to wear pants any other time. I also allow shorts if the weather is appropriate, however they must be shorts that are at knee length.

I was shopping the other day for my youngest daughter, 7. I could not believe some of the things that stores carry for young girls! I do not know where I have been, but I did not realize that they are making "low rise" jeans for little girls! I sat there and observed a younger mother (approximately 20-25) and she was actually telling her daughter that the low rise shorts and jeans were "too cute on her and made her little butt look cute!"... The woman then persisted to find her a halter top shirt to go with the shorts. It was also disturbing how the shorts/jeans brought out the little girls physical features, they brought out the shape of her bottom and made her hips look wider, and made her figure look much older than she was! This little girl could not have been more than 5-6...

My daughters step mother she is actually younger than I am, and as I try and remain respectful of her tastes, we tend to clash on how she chooses to dress my 7 year old. I have tried to speak to her about this issue several times, however she does not seem to care. I have spoken to my ex husband about the issue as well, and he seemed to be a bit more understanding considering he and I have raised our children along the same lines. So, since speaking to him about it, it has gotten better.

I am not saying little girls cannot wear pretty fancy dresses and clothes, there is just a difference in how they are worn. My daughters had plenty of dresses and clothes that were fancy that they received many compliments on... but I refuse to have my daughter walk around like a mini prostitute (please forgive me language).

I apologize for my rant or if it got a little off topic... it tends to happen from time to time :heated:
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Hulk
06-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Thank you for sharing your thoughts sister patientgrace, I believe I get what you mean. Society is getting crazier.. I don't think people are even thinking about how they are actually moulding the minds of their children. Some people actually raise their kids to follow whatever is "trendy" at the time, and when the child grows up and follow another trend. They get all "shocked".

I don't think it's wrong to let the young kids follow "trend", fitting in to society has its importance. However, it is important that the kids realise that following a trend is not a need and that there are things that take priority over trends; such as proper modesty.

The reason people are dressing more and more ridiculously is simply because that is how their idols in the media are dressing. We naturally want to imitate the people we look up to, but unfortunately the people that are being looked up to these days are nothing much. We have to be careful with these things..
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patientgrace
06-25-2012, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by Hulk
Thank you for sharing your thoughts sister patientgrace, I believe I get what you mean. Society is getting crazier.. I don't think people are even thinking about how they are actually moulding the minds of their children. Some people actually raise their kids to follow whatever is "trendy" at the time, and when the child grows up and follow another trend. They get all "shocked".

I don't think it's wrong to let the young kids follow "trend", fitting in to society has its importance. However, it is important that the kids realise that following a trend is not a need and that there are things that take priority over trends; such as proper modesty.

The reason people are dressing more and more ridiculously is simply because that is how their idols in the media are dressing. We naturally want to imitate the people we look up to, but unfortunately the people that are being looked up to these days are nothing much. We have to be careful with these things..
You are exactly right! Now a days, I feel that there are fewer and fewer celebrities out there that are worth looking up too. I will say one of the younger celebrities that does seem to strive to set a good example for young girls and acknowledges that she wants to set a good example for young girls and women everywhere is Taylor Swift. Now, I may not be all that interested in her music, but she is one of the few that I will actually allow my youngest to listen to. I can safely play her music in my car and do not have to worry about profanity or filth being put into my child's mind. (Sorry, I know that was way off topic lol)

I try and instill in my children that what is in their minds is the most important thing. How they carry themselves is such a big deal. When you carry yourself in a respectful manner, hold your head up high, walk with confidence knowing that you are beautiful on the inside first as well as out, standing your ground for your beliefs and putting their education first, that they will get much further in life, and when they do find the right person for them to marry, that man will respect them for what really matters vs. how big their bust line is, how long their legs are, how good they look in a mini skirt and what they are like in bed...

People need to respect themselves before they can expect any human being to respect them, in all aspects.
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PouringRain
06-25-2012, 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by patientgrace
I will say one of the younger celebrities that does seem to strive to set a good example for young girls and acknowledges that she wants to set a good example for young girls and women everywhere is Taylor Swift. Now, I may not be all that interested in her music, but she is one of the few that I will actually allow my youngest to listen to. I can safely play her music in my car and do not have to worry about profanity or filth being put into my child's mind. (Sorry, I know that was way off topic lol)
You may find few members of an Islamic forum agreeing with you about Taylor Swift as an icon of modesty and a role model for young girls.
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patientgrace
06-25-2012, 11:52 PM
Well I mainly meant that she is one of the few, very few that I would even consider allowing my daughter to listen to. I primarily listen to Christian music.

Taylor Swift has even said that she realizes the majority of her audience are young girls which she holds very highly to try and set a good example. I am not saying she is the perfect example, and people may not agree.. but I meant if given a choice over Britney Spears or Taylor Swift, I would choose Taylor Swift, again.. if given a choice.
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PouringRain
06-26-2012, 01:20 PM
Originally Posted by patientgrace
Well I mainly meant that she is one of the few, very few that I would even consider allowing my daughter to listen to. I primarily listen to Christian music.

Taylor Swift has even said that she realizes the majority of her audience are young girls which she holds very highly to try and set a good example. I am not saying she is the perfect example, and people may not agree.. but I meant if given a choice over Britney Spears or Taylor Swift, I would choose Taylor Swift, again.. if given a choice.
Thankfully, we don't have to make a choice between those two. :)
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Paprika
06-26-2012, 02:04 PM
I remember a hadith, something like, "The first thing to leave a person after loosing his modesty is Imaan".
Very scary when you see the immodesty around these days especially among muslims.
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patientgrace
06-26-2012, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by PouringRain
Thankfully, we don't have to make a choice between those two. :)
Haha! Exactly, PouringRain! :rock:

Neither of them nor the majority of young celebrities these days are anything that I would want my daughter(s) to look up to. I am truly blessed with 3 beautiful girls that are extremely smart, talented, and know the importance of self worth and don't spend all their time idolizing pop sensations... I am happy that my girls spent their time (willingly) reading books, studying subjects that they had interests in and doing extracurricular activities that they enjoyed. I am also happy that they realized that it is okay to be "smart" in school. So many girls get caught up in peer pressure and don't want to miss out on the things that "cool" people are doing, they completely lower their standards and do not realize what they are capable of.
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