Repulsive verses in the bible

[aadil77]

The purpose of this thread is to expose the contents of the bible that alot of people including christians and jews are unaware of. Its also to expose the hypocrisy of some christians and jews who try but fail at attacking the quran and at the same time will overlook the verses in their own bible. The purpose is also to show how badly the original true scriptures sent down by Allah and preached by our prophets have been modified and added to.

I don't expect christians or jews to justify these verses - since the meanings are quite clear, you're welcome to do so though. But please do not use the following excuses: meaning was lost in translation, the verse had a metaphorical meaning, verse not to be taken literally, you dismiss parts of bible eg; the OT, verse was not by god or jesus or whoever, they're out of context etc etc. At the end of the day its in your 'holy book' called the bible.

I'll start off with the violent verses advocating murder

-Ezekiel 9:5-7 "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. god threatens to kill women and children

-Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.god threatens to kill pregnant women and children by the sword

-Ezekiel 23 - 25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. 26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. god threatens more slaughter

-Exodus 31:15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. god commands you to kill those who work on the sabbath

-If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky… Take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. – Deut 17:2-7
god commands you to kill anyone who worships other gods

-Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 13:7-12: Again you must massacre everyone follows different religions

-If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. - Deut 13:7-12 no mercy for anyone who worships another god - they all must die even if they're family

-Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. – Lev 24:16 who says blasphemy of god isn't a big deal - the 'LORD' commands you to kill them

-All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:9 disrespectful children must be killed too, funny how alot of people in this country are still alive

-If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall ... say to the elders of his town, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. - Deut 21 looks like big emphasis on respect to parents otherwise you face death

-If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. - Matthew 18:7-9 big emphasis on not sinning to the extent you should amputate yourself, what's jesus salvation good for then?

-Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. - Numbers 31 god wants you to kill little boys and women who have fornicated, little girls can be kept as slaves

-If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. - Exodus Chapter 21:20 killing a slave not a big deal

-"Take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the Lord against the sun.” -- Numbers 25:4 I wonder which people?

-"... at midnight the Lord smote all the first born in the land of Egypt, from the first born of the pharaoh...unto the first born of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the first born cattle" -- Exodus 12:29 god says he killed all newly born children in egypt

- "Their children shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes! There houses spoiled, and their wives raped...Dash the young men to pieces...have no pity on the fruit of the womb, the children shall not be spared" -- Isa 13:16-18 god wants you to rape women, kill pregnant women and kill children

-“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” --Psalms 137:9 god recommends killing your children

-“And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.” -- 2kings2:23-24
god kills children for mockin a bald girl

-46 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses. Reminds us of all the war crimes against muslims dont it? palestine, iraq, afghanistan...


Next up verses with the obsession of human waste and pornographic description

[aadil77]

If you're gonna say these are just descriptions of sins, then tell us what benefit these pornographic descriptions hold, is there really a need to go into so much detail? Again not something you expect from god in a holy book.

-"that pi**eth against the wall" (I Samuel 25:22, I Kings 14:10)

-"that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own p*** with you" (II Kings 18:27, Isaiah 36:12)

-"And thou shalt eat it [as] barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight" (Ez 4:12).

-"Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith" (Ez 4:15).

-"Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces..."(Malachi 2:3). Is all this for real?

-"and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ.."(Philipp 3:8).

-"Absalom went in unto his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel" (II Sam 16:22).

-Afterwards, the poor concubines (there were ten of them!) got imprisoned for life (II Sam 20:3).

-"and after that thou shalt go in unto her" (Deut 21:13). There are many other places where the graphical phrase "go in" is used.

-"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off..." (Deut 23:1).

-"and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets" (Deut 25:11).

-"let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love" (Proverbs 5:19).

-"My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him" (Song of Solomon 5:4).

-"and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun" (II Sam 12:11).

-"he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts" (Song of Sol. 1:13).

-"And they committed *****doms in Egypt; ...there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity" (Ez 23:3).

-"to every man a damsel or two" (Judges 5:30)

-"and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake" (Matthew 19:12).

-Ezekiel chapter 23: 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses

-Ezekiel 23:3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.

-Ezekiel 23 She gave herself as a prostitute to all the elite of the Assyrians and defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after. 8 She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust upon her.

-Ezekiel 23 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her nakedness, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

-'Now let them use her as a prostitute, for that is all she is.' 44 And they slept with her. As men sleep with a prostitute, so they slept with those lewd women, Oholah and Oholibah.

-Song of Songs 8:1-3 "If only you were to me like a brother, who was nursed at my mother's breasts! Then, if I found you outside, I would kiss you, and no one would despise me. I would lead you and bring you to my mother's house-- she who has taught me. I would give you spiced wine to drink [i.e., her vagina's semen!], the nectar of my pomegranates. His left arm is under my head and his right arm embraces me." Wishing for incest

-Song of Solomon 8:10 "Dear brothers, I'm a walled-in virgin still, but my breasts are full— And when my lover sees me, he knows he'll soon be satisfied."

-Song of Songs 4:5 "Your two breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle that browse among the lilies."

-Song of Songs 1:13 "My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh resting between my breasts."

-Song of Songs 1:2-4 "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth-- for your love is more delightful than wine. Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes; your name is like perfume poured out. No wonder the maidens love you! Take me away with you--let us hurry! Let the king bring me into his chambers. We rejoice and delight in you; we will praise your love (i.e., semen) more than wine. How right they are to adore you!"

-'I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.' May your breasts be like the clusters of the vine, the fragrance of your breath like apples, and your mouth like the best wine. (The NIV Bible, Song of Songs 7:1-4, 8-9)"

How holy is the holy bible?

[Getoffmyback]

[B]-Ezekiel chapter 23: 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses

ok lets say they r trying to show disrespect to whoever this woman is in the verse...but this is too much

[Lynx]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

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[marwen]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

I think the Christians are still using the OT (or part of them). Anyway, I think this thread is addressed to people using the bible (christians or jews).

[Ramadhan]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

Are you a christian? where's the proof? did Jesus pbuh (whom christians regard as god) ever tell his followers to ditch the OT?

It's getting boring how christians make up things as they go.

[Pygoscelis]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

If the OT was relaced by the NT then why do the Christians still peddle the OT? Can we get rid of this horrible book and truly replace it with the much smaller and somewhat less psychotic NT? And does that mean we get rid of the ten commandments with it?

I would actually be happy to restrict a thread like this to the NT bible, as I find it in itself highly offensive. The concept of Christ vicariously redeeming people who endorse his suffering so they don't have to pay for their wrongs, is just immoral to me. The NT also introduces hell. Nowhere in the OT are the dead subjected to any sort of torture or punishment. I guess to have a saviour you had to have something to be saved from.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;

We have the benefit of free choice, and we tend to do most things for our own benefit, rather than for the benefit of the community. I think we all place a great burden on God, by the things we do to each other, and the things we do against God.

Supposing God was to intervene in the world today, and put all things right, where would he start? There is so much injustice in this world, a billion people live on less than a dollar a day, in grinding poverty and hunger, we have all kind of wars, and crimes.

If God restored all things to the victims of crime and violence, if God redistributed the food, land and the wealth of the world fairly. Within a generation or two mankind would be back to all its evil ways.

When God looks at the world today, it’s a wonder that he does not lose all his patience with us, and wipe us all out. We cannot know the mind of God, but I do believe that he wants what is best for us, and this can only be given through a greater good life after death.

There are many stories in the Bible where God commands the army to go into a town, and kill every man, woman, child and animal. But God can still restore them, to a greater good life after death.

In the spirit of searching for a loving, forgiving and merciful God

Eric

[Lynx]

Well my point was to direct the thread to something more relevant to Christians. The Christian faith relies on the NT not the OT. I am not a Christian but that is what Christians tend to say about Christianity. OT is like the Beta version of a program and the NT is the final release ! But if I am wrong Christian members can certainly step in and correct what I am saying x)

naidamar: isn't the proof the very fact that the OT was meant for the Jews not the Christians? But again, the Christians can correct me if I am wrong.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:
thank you for this notification. this will be good for refutations.

[Ramadhan]

naidamar: isn't the proof the very fact that the OT was meant for the Jews not the Christians? But again, the Christians can correct me if I am wrong.

The Bible comprises of the OT books as well. The ten commandments are in the OT. Jesus pbuh never told his followers to ditch away with the OT.

but not to worry if you are confused.

Christians are also confused which parts of the OT they should take and which parts should be disowned and painted as "metaphores" and "only-applicable-for-the-jews"
This changes by time, of course, depending the trend and social norms/values of the day.
Don't be surprised to see whats being taken as christian values today will totally change tomorrow. Example: homosexuality.
The bible clearly warns against homosexuality and gave example how severe God's punishments for those who practiced it, and yet these days most christians in the west accept homosexuality as something "normal" and more and more churches have softened their stance against it and against the people who practice it.

[aadil77]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

ok I've added its for jews as well

[aadil77]

Are you a christian? where's the proof? did Jesus pbuh (whom christians regard as god) ever tell his followers to ditch the OT?

It's getting boring how christians make up things as they go.

It sure is, no reasonable explanation for something and they make it up themselves, then you end up with contradicting views from other christians

You just need to look the north americans and how seriously they take the WHOLE of the bible, they believe its the literal word of god

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you naidamar;

most christians in the west accept homosexuality as something "normal" and more and more churches have softened their stance against it and against the people who practice it.

If it were only the people without sin who entered our churches and mosques, then these places of worship would be empty. Why just pick out homosexuality, why not adultery, lying, stealing, failing to pray, all these things go against God's commands.

In the spirit of searching for an inner peace for all people

Eric

[aadil77]

There are many stories in the Bible where God commands the army to go into a town, and kill every man, woman, child and animal. But God can still restore them, to a greater good life after death.

Eric

Thanks for acknowledging that. Do you think such beliefs are compatible in today's society? What would happen if the Quran were to contain a single verse of the sort? I'm pretty sure it would get banned in every other country, I don't think the excuse that god could restore them after death would hold up against anyone. I suppose hitler probably used those verses when he thought he was doing gods work.

To me those verses incite terrorism, I can imagine them being used for the attrocities in iraq, afghanistan and palestine.

Its pure hypocrisy from the western world, they can condemn the Quran for being a violent book when its clear who the violence is directed at and in what cases. But are those same people blind to the above verses, indiscriminate killing? I find this disgusting.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;

You just need to look the north americans and how seriously they take the WHOLE of the bible, they believe its the literal word of god

We are all human, we each seem to take a different understanding on many things. I believe that God inspired people to write the Bible in the way God intended. The Bible has to inspire me to do something, and I firmly believe that God’s intention with all holy books, is to inspire a greater good.

Can you tell me please, why you have gone to all the trouble to search out what seems like bad stuff, and then ignore all the things that call for love, forgiveness, justice, mercy?

Despite all the things people say about the koran, I try and look for a greatest good message.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding.

Eric

[aadil77]

Can you tell me please, why you have gone to all the trouble to search out what seems like bad stuff, and then ignore all the things that call for love, forgiveness, justice, mercy?

Despite all the things people say about the koran, I try and look for a greatest good message.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding.

Eric

You can throw all the love, forgiveness and justice out the window when you read these verses - clear contradictions of those teachings.

Christianity is becoming more and more two faced to me, on the outside people will cry about jesus teaching a soft lovey dovey religion of peace and happiness, then on the inside you see the true colours of christians and jews when they're hell bent on war and killing.

People can try and find bad things about the Quran but will fail miserably as there is nothing you can say bad about it, so I don't see how you need to 'try' and ignore them to look for a 'good message' when all of it is a 'good message'.

Whereas the same cannot be said about the bible, you can find repulsive verses in the bible and people will be unable to justify them in anyway.

Thats why I said its absolute hypocrisy from the same people

[aadil77]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

Lets make this clear the Quran replaced the corrupted version of the bible thats currently present, the original teachings from the bible are still present in the Quran

[aadil77]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;

and then ignore all the things that call for love, forgiveness, justice, mercy?

Eric

Also Eric, if you actually want to practise the true teachings of prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) which called for 'love, forgiveness, justice, mercy' its time to accept islam. We have no such major contractions in any part of our beliefs, you will see the same message passed down from all the prophets. Prophet muhammad called for 'love, forgiveness, justice, mercy' just as did all the prophets.

[Cabdullahi]

Thanks for acknowledging that. Do you think such beliefs are compatible in today's society? What would happen if the Quran were to contain a single verse of the sort? I'm pretty sure it would get banned in every other country, I don't think the excuse that god could restore them after death would hold up against anyone. I suppose hitler probably used those verses when he thought he was doing gods work.

To me those verses incite terrorism, I can imagine them being used for the attrocities in iraq, afghanistan and palestine.

Its pure hypocrisy from the western world, they can condemn the Quran for being a violent book when its clear who the violence is directed at and in what cases. But are those same people blind to the above verses, indiscriminate killing? I find this disgusting.

Straight up Double standards

[aadil77]

Straight up Double standards

It is akhi, as we know the truth always prevails, we just need to look around to see that

[Pygoscelis]

It sure is, no reasonable explanation for something and they make it up themselves, then you end up with contradicting views from other christians

You just need to look the north americans and how seriously they take the WHOLE of the bible, they believe its the literal word of god

Whoooooooa! Hold on there! You speak of the bible belt, a part of the USA, not the whole USA, and certainly not Canada!

[aadil77]

Whoooooooa! Hold on there! You speak of the bible belt, a part of the USA, not the whole USA, and certainly not Canada!

arite then parts of the USA

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;

Philippians 4
4Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

The Bible has some wonderful verses too.

Every blessing

Eric

[aadil77]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;



The Bible has some wonderful verses too.

Every blessing

Eric

Thanks Eric I'm sure there are plenty, no one is denying that,

I don't know if you've read the Quran before but I believe all of it is wonderful, reading it in arabic is especially beautiful, you can understand that by just listening to a few verses

If you have the time please watch this video: Ar-Rahman - Chapter 56

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you =aadil77;

I don't know if you've read the Quran before but I believe all of it is wonderful, reading it in arabic is especially beautiful, you can understand that by just listening to a few verses

If you have the time please watch this video: Ar-Rahman - Chapter 56

I have only read parts of the Quran that are posted on this forum, and I watched the video, Ar-Rahman - Chapter 56. I liked the recitation, strangely enough, when I read other scriptures, it helps me to find another perception from the Bible.

Somehow the same God who created you, and gave you a faith through Islam, also created me and gave me a faith through Christianity. Only God can change either of us.

Despite all our differences, I believe that we should be working together, in acts of kindness, for the good of the community.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric

[aadil77]

Somehow the same God who created you, and gave you a faith through Islam, also created me and gave me a faith through Christianity. Only God can change either of us.

Despite all our differences, I believe that we should be working together, in acts of kindness, for the good of the community.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship and understanding

Eric

Our creators are the same, if you mean god without including Jesus (peace be upon him) and the holy spirit, but I don't believe god can change people, He can guide us and show us the right path then its up to us to make that decision - but for that we need to be sincere in our prayers and we should ask god alone for guidence

I commend your emphasis on interfaith relations, it is something lacking in society

With that, I'd like to leave you with the opening chapter of the Quran

[Grofica]

christens use both testimates... not just one...

(family is christen & catholic)

[aadil77]

noooo my post about womens rights in the bible is gone, oh well :hmm:

[Ramadhan]

noooo my post about womens rights in the bible is gone, oh well :hmm:

What rights?

;)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;

noooo my post about womens rights in the bible is gone, oh well

It is probably a good thing that post disappeared, it could be a sign that you should spend more of your time studying. These kind of posts are a distraction and will take up too much of your time and energy.

Get back to Studying NOW, IMMEDIATELY, AND NO MORE EXCUSSES FOR WASTING TIME.

In the spirit of praying for a greater help to study

Eric

[aadil77]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77;


It is probably a good thing that post disappeared, it could be a sign that you should spend more of your time studying. These kind of posts are a distraction and will take up too much of your time and energy.

Get back to Studying NOW, IMMEDIATELY, AND NO MORE EXCUSSES FOR WASTING TIME.

In the spirit of praying for a greater help to study

Eric

Lol it saved you some trouble though didn't it :D

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77,

Lol it saved you some trouble though didn't it :D

Its not me that I am worrying about....

worst thing is when u wake up in the mornin feelin like crap thinkin u shud've revised yesterday

I think I know how you might feel tomorrow, so far you have had 29 posts in the last 20 hours.

Study, study, and keep studying, NOW.

In the spirit of praying for all lost causes.

Eric

[aadil77]

Greetings and peace be with you aadil77,

Its not me that I am worrying about....

I think I know how you might feel tomorrow, so far you have had 29 posts in the last 20 hours.

Study, study, and keep studying, NOW.

In the spirit of praying for all lost causes.

Eric

wow eric you're so caring, now that is something I believe prophet Isa taught

[DancesWithChair]

I'll start off with the violent verses advocating murder
Ezekiel 9:5-7

The old testament is more or less a history of what went before. It’s not a set of instructions.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Where any teaching of Christ contradicts something in the old testament, the teachings of Christ will prevail.

The 10 commandments from the old testament do not contradict Christ’s teachings and so they are followed.

To me those verses incite terrorism, I can imagine them being used for the atrocities in Iraq, afghanistan and palestine.

Well, no because Christ taught love and so those verses cannot be used for anything.

So you don’t need to worry about the “repulsive verses” as you called them.
-

[جوري]

The old testament is more or less a history of what went before. It’s not a set of instructions.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Where any teaching of Christ contradicts something in the old testament, the teachings of Christ will prevail.

The 10 commandments from the old testament do not contradict Christ’s teachings and so they are followed.




Well, no because Christ taught love and so those verses cannot be used for anything.

So you don’t need to worry about the “repulsive verses” as you called them.
-

A christian who pretends to be an atheist and writes on an Islamic forum various forms of inaccurate historical drivel.. what do we call that Tartuffe? The weekday comedy bits?

[Snowflake]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

You can't be serious. The OT was replaced by men whereas the Bible was replaced by the Word of God - Holy Quran. Big difference I think.

[Ramadhan]

The old testament is more or less a history of what went before. It’s not a set of instructions.

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Where any teaching of Christ contradicts something in the old testament, the teachings of Christ will prevail.

The 10 commandments from the old testament do not contradict Christ’s teachings and so they are followed.


Well, no because Christ taught love and so those verses cannot be used for anything.

So you don’t need to worry about the “repulsive verses” as you called them.
-

An "atheist" who is suddenly an expert in bible?

LOL.
Oh what a day.

[جوري]

An "atheist" who is suddenly an expert in bible?

LOL.
Oh what a day.

Yeah, you ought to check him out here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1325766

I guess the stealth crusaders like to put on a hat of a different color every time they spread their false information and lies.. In fact with so many pea brained folks in the world, I wonder if anyone bothers with academia and proper historical texts anymore.. but in the end they all know how to cry foul when busted.. disgusting gadflies only echo the need for hyper vigilance when educating the new generations properly!

:w:

[Ramadhan]

Yeah, you ought to check him out here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1325766

I guess the stealth crusaders like to put on a hat of a different color every time they spread their false information and lies.. In fact with so many pea brained folks in the world, I wonder if anyone bothers with academia and proper historical texts anymore.. but in the end they all know how to cry foul when busted.. disgusting gadflies only echo the need for hyper vigilance when educating the new generations properly!

:w:

Coincidently I was reciting Ali Imran this evening, and the following verses from the surah remind me of those stealth crusaders.

QS. 3: 69-72

A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.

O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve ye in the revelations of Allah, when ye (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)?

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

[جوري]

Coincidently I was reciting Ali Imran this evening, and the following verses from the surah remind me of those stealth crusaders.

QS. 3: 69-72

A party of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish to lead you astray. But they shall not lead astray anyone except themselves, and they perceive not.

O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve ye in the revelations of Allah, when ye (yourselves) bear witness (to their truth)?

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"

sadaqa Allah al3atheem!

[Predator]

Christians follow the teachings of Christ. Where any teaching of Christ contradicts something in the old testament, the teachings of Christ will prevail.


Well, no because Christ taught love and so those verses cannot be used for anything.

So you've just destroyed the trinity because according to you Jesus is not the God gave have Moses the 10 commandments and all those other strict laws , .
Jesus is different and he taught love and that means you now believe in 2 different Gods with 2 different set of laws for mankind

Whereas If you believe that Jesus is the same God of the OT. So basically what we have is this:

1- Jesus is God
2- Jesus is the God of the Old Testement
3- Christians believe that the OT is the inspired word of God
4- The OT is authentic to the Christian
5- The God in the OT is Jesus

So since Jesus is the God of the OT, we shall now look at the God of the OT ordering the KILLINGS of many people:

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."


These are just 2 examples the God in the OT ordering the death and destruction of the people. In fact the verses are very explicit; the God of the OT is making it clear that it is HIS SWORD which shall slay the people.
So since Jesus is God, and is the God of the OT, this means that it was Jesus who ordered these killings and it was Jesus who killed all these people! Hence your myth is DEBUNKED. Jesus did kill, and Jesus ordered the killings of women and children, the fact that you claim that Jesus never killed anyone is a plane intentional lie why would you make such a blatant lie? And it also leaves us with another question, which is what else do you Christians lie about? What other myths and propaganda do they create on their made up faith? We can only guess, but no doubt each lie will get caught and exposed.

[DancesWithChair]

So you've just destroyed the trinity because….

Well there is no trinity so we are in agreement there:statisfie. The thread is about repulsive verses in the bible so you have gone off-topic!

An atheist who is suddenly an expert in bible?

LOL.
Oh what a day.

This thread was started by a Muslim. Strangely you didn’t notice that!

He read the verses and used his Biblical expertise to conclude:

To me those verses incite terrorism, I can imagine them being used for the atrocities in Iraq, afghanistan and palestine.

I showed that he is wrong and will quote later poster:

In fact with so many pea brained folks in the world, I wonder if anyone bothers with academia and proper historical texts anymore......

Woodrow said it better in another thread:
-

Of what use or value is this "Comparative Religion" section?

TRUTH

Truth in the concept of learning what we each believe and not what we each think the other person believes.

Have a nice day! :shade:


-

[جوري]

Woodrow said it better in another thread:
-



Have a nice day! :shade:


-

Truth is not a personal opinion but a historically accurate fact!
Banking on Br. woodrow's wisdom doesn't exempt you from exercising some common sense or remaining silent until you learn it!

all the best

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

The Quran tells us that parts of the other religions are wrong -
but he does not tell us what parts.

Above all - he does not say that the Bible itself is wrong. We have to be
very careful in that. Because we might say that something is wrong
but if it is indeed the word of God we are doing a great error.

I think that this is the place were we are not succeeding. We must
very carefully study the other religions - and find exactly where they
are wrong. If we would be able to do that we would be able to explain
ourselves better.

Blessings.

[Ramadhan]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

I see from your status that you are a muslim.
Please provide evidence that bible is the word of God. from the Qur'an verses and hadith hasan or shahih. Because as far as I know, the God decreed Taurat, Zabur, Injeel to the prophets prior Muhammad SAW, but not bible.

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

this is meaningless.

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

Please give evidence from the Qur'an or hadiths.

I see that you claim to be a muslim scholar, so could you please be a little more scholarly when giving opinions?


How interesting lately we have a barrage of people claiming to be whatever they are, and yet what came out in writing totally negate their claim.

[aadil77]

I would like to warn Muslims from doing that.

Sorry there is nothing wrong in showing the falsehood in the bible

The Bible my friend is the word of God. Just like the Quran.

my friend even christians do not believe the bible is the word of god, stop dreaming

God is not always nice but he is always good and kind.

May Allah forgive you, do not associate human qualities to Him

Some verses in the Bible are intentionally inserted in order to catch
the eyes of evil people (like we know there are everywhere) and
by that punishing them by twisting their souls.

The Quran tells us that parts of the other religions are wrong -
but he does not tell us what parts.

The quran is not a person that 'he' tells us, its Allah that has told us in the Quran that previous scriptures are corrupted
Above all - he does not say that the Bible itself is wrong. We have to be
very careful in that. Because we might say that something is wrong
but if it is indeed the word of God we are doing a great error.

Well we'll know if its wrong if it contradicts with the Quran

I think that this is the place were we are not succeeding. We must
very carefully study the other religions - and find exactly where they
are wrong. If we would be able to do that we would be able to explain
ourselves better.

Thats exactly what I've done so read the thread again

Blessings.

Are you actually muslim? we refer to the one god as Allah not god

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I do not associate human attributes to him as kindness is not a human attribute.

We all call him Rahaman which means merciful. Is mercy a human attribute?

No. Humans are capable of it but it is not a human attribute.

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

In fact we should be very careful not to dispute scripture which the Quran, as the
word of Allah approves because then we are doing a mistake.

I have no problem saying when things are wrong. On the contrary - when things are
wrong I would do anything to correct the mistake - as we are commanded.

As for contradiction.

What we as humans in our small mind see as contradiction is hardly what he blessed be he views
as contradiction. In fact, as the word of Allah, there is nothing in the world that can contradict
the words of the Quran.

It is only people who can choose to follow the perfect way described in it or not.

As for what you have done - the direction you are taking is blessed. However, we must be more careful.

Don't get me wrong my friend - I believe that what you do is blessed. However, we must be more careful.

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

As you know, the Quran is Allah's message to humanity.

This is not what the Bible is.


The books do not contradict each other. They are just different.

In short, I would not dispute anything that I think might have a chance
to be correct in the eyes of Allah. I am simply careful with that.

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

The only thing that is mine is wether I choose to be a Muslim
and follow the path paved for us - or not.

And this only he can know. I do not need to prove that to anybody and indeed
I cannot and neither can anybody else. It is not about proving.

This is what I believe.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Hi Aaid it is a pleasure to meet you.

There is nothing wrong in showing falsehood in the Bible. But we must
be sure that it is falsehood. This is all I am saying.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

As for verses which are inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people. I do not need to go to Hadith for proving you this. You can see that by yourself at your local newspaper my friend.

[aadil77]

I do not associate human attributes to him as kindness is not a human attribute.

Yh so why did you say Allah is not 'nice' sometimes? Be very careful and ask for forgivenes

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

All previous scriptures are corrupted, He did not say 'some' are corrupted, all of them are. Corrupted does not mean everything within them is incorrect rather parts of it are incorrect

In fact we should be very careful not to dispute scripture which the Quran, as the
word of Allah approves because then we are doing a mistake.

What do you mean?

What we as humans in our small mind see as contradiction is hardly what he blessed be he views
as contradiction. In fact, as the word of Allah, there is nothing in the world that can contradict
the words of the Quran.

I dont get what you're talking about, I said parts of the bible which contradict with the quran are obviously incorrect

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

I'm afraid you don't have the knowledge about that, as we have never seen the true uncorrupted scriptures we cannot say how they were different, we can only compare what is left of them with the quran. The torah and injeel could have been the direct words of Allah in the same way as the quran, but we dont know for certain

The books do not contradict each other. They are just different.

This is where you are seriously misguided, if the bible is different and does not contradict do you accept it as the complete true words of Allah? They clearly contradict, I doubt you are any religious scholar as you claim. Everyone knows they contradict, can you prove they don't?

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

What is His words?

I think you need to read the bible and accept that muslims cannot call it the true word of god

[aadil77]

As for verses which are inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people. I do not need to go to Hadith for proving you this. You can see that by yourself at your local newspaper my friend.

What do you mean 'inserted in the Bible in order to twist the souls of people'?

[Dagless]

The Quran, as the word of Allah, tells us that previous scriptures are corrupted.

But he does not tell you which scriptures it is. There are many scriptures and not
all of them are corrupted.

If there were scriptures which were the word of God and had not been corrupted what would be the reason to reveal the Quran? Why would God have more than one correct religion at any one time?

As for evidence. The Bible is not the word of him in the same way that the Quran is. They are different
books.

As you know, the Quran is Allah's message to humanity.

This is not what the Bible is.

Please elaborate.

In short, I would not dispute anything that I think might have a chance
to be correct in the eyes of Allah. I am simply careful with that.

I agree with this comment, but only for those things which cannot be confirmed or refuted using verses from the Quran, and even then in a very very limited way (like you cannot follow them or use them; the most you can say is they are neither confirmed nor rejected). However, I am not a scholar, and if this is the wrong view to take please provide me with evidence for a more correct view.

In fact, as a Muslim, I believe that anything belongs to him and
therefore, at the end, everything is his word including this one.

This makes no sense. What about the words which go against what the Quran says? You cannot believe 2 opposing views.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You can only believe in one voice my friend. This is true.

But all voices. Even the ones you should not believe in are his.
It is just impossible otherwise.

As I said. There is only one religion and this is the religion of Islam.

In fact show me a definition of the religion of Judaism show me a
definition of the religion of Christianity. You cannot.

I do not speak about things I do not know what they are.

I do not think that you are wrong, on the contrary you are very right my friend.
I think that we should be neutral with respect to things which we should be neutral
about and to attack when the things we believe in are violated as to make sure
that other people are not corrupted in the way.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

About the request to elaborate. Gladly.

If I compare the Quran to the Bible there is one striking difference
which I can see.

Although the Quran is the word of Allah it is written in a clear and
straight forward way so that any human can understand that -
thus it is a message for all humanity. An absolute message that is.

On the other hand - the Bible is not clear, not straightforward, confusing
and inconsistent to our eyes.

This does not mean that it is wrong or flawed but rather - that it is not
to be viewed as a message to humanity in the sense that the Quran is.

In my eyes, the Bible is a necessary preliminary to the Quran much like
a ground is a necessary preliminary to a flower. I think this is the best
example I can give.

[Dagless]

You can only believe in one voice my friend. This is true.

But all voices. Even the ones you should not believe in are his.
It is just impossible otherwise.

I have never seen this kind of stance in Islam before but I would like to understand what you mean, since so far I do not.

Lets start with an easy example:

Christian belief: "Jesus is the son of God".
Muslim belief: "Jesus is not the son of God".

How can you reconcile these 2 beliefs? You cannot say that you are neutral because being neutral or unsure of the first statement is in itself a form of disbelief in Islam.

and to attack when the things we believe in are violated as to make sure
that other people are not corrupted in the way.

My intention is not to attack.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You can not of course reconcile the two beliefs.

However, the words themselves exist in Allah's world
and therefore belong to him.

Allah created both the believers as well as the non-believers.

You have choice only on what you have in your heart and not
on what other people have in their tongues.

Why should you attack my belief. We believe in the same things I
think.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I can be neutral on things which have nothing to do with belief in Islam.

For instance.

If a Christian would come to me and tell me I believe that Jesues was
the son of God - I would say that he is an idolater not as an insult but
simply because this is the definition of the word - idolizing something
which you by yourself acknowledge is not God himself.

I think this is clear.

However, if a Christian would come to me - I see the term "son" as an
abstract term which says the Christ was on a very high spiritual level and
he was so free from the bounds of this world that he was not a "slave" but
rather such a devoted believer that he was to Allah's world almost like a son
in a kingdom. I would say this starts to make sense and goes into the domain
of neutral.

Because - it is not literal belief in foolish things but rather shows of a certain
devotion. We might agree with the terminology or not (and with this we are
free to argue) however, you must agree with me that it is a much less problematic statement.

Now, it might be that for the founders of the Church, and even for Christ himself (which we
do acknowledge as an important religious leader and a prophet) this was the real meaning of the
word.

Thus it is very reasonable that through the course of time it is the meaning of the words which
has been corrupted but not verses themselves. This is because the verses are not straightforward.
Even if you would read the New Testament itself you would see that it is Jesus that says that it
is said in riddles.

However, the Quran is not like that. The Quran is straightforward and can never, Allah forbid, be
given different meanings.

The Bible and the New Testament can. And this is where the problem begins.

Thus, it is the task of Muslim to explain and sometimes remind to others, when they are wrong, that they are wrong.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Aadil, being nice is not always good. Allah is always good but not
always nice. Maybe I said my words to hastily and presented them
in a way which might sound offensive while, Allah forbid, I am not.

Let me explain -

What I meant to say is that Allah is not always nice
because sometimes, when needed, when those who do not
believe obey his will, he is also harsh and sometimes he is vengeful.
When necessary.

Indeed, you can see I am right, for the non-believers do we not refer to
him by the name "Al-Muntaqin" and "Al-Mumit" and by the name "Ad-daar"?

Of course, for a believer, these sides of him are far away from our mind and
it is only a sign of strong belief when it is. Yet, sadly, sometimes when judgment
is needed for some we know he needs to be harsh.

As for corruption.

Only people are corrupted. And they are corrupted by their evil inclinations and Jinns.
Corruption is a human word. The prophecies and scriptures
we have, from Prophets acknowledged by our Prophet cannot be corrupted because a prophecy or
scripture given by force of prophecy does not come from human words at all. And in case of
the prophets which we acknowledge does not come from the Jinn either.

[Ramadhan]

I can be neutral on things which have nothing to do with belief in Islam.

For instance.

If a Christian would come to me and tell me I believe that Jesues was
the son of God - I would say that he is an idolater not as an insult but
simply because this is the definition of the word - idolizing something
which you by yourself acknowledge is not God himself.

I think this is clear.

However, if a Christian would come to me - I see the term "son" as an
abstract term which says the Christ was on a very high spiritual level and
he was so free from the bounds of this world that he was not a "slave" but
rather such a devoted believer that he was to Allah's world almost like a son
in a kingdom. I would say this starts to make sense and goes into the domain
of neutral.

Because - it is not literal belief in foolish things but rather shows of a certain
devotion. We might agree with the terminology or not (and with this we are
free to argue) however, you must agree with me that it is a much less problematic statement.

Now, it might be that for the founders of the Church, and even for Christ himself (which we
do acknowledge as an important religious leader and a prophet) this was the real meaning of the
word.

Thus it is very reasonable that through the course of time it is the meaning of the words which
has been corrupted but not verses themselves. This is because the verses are not straightforward.
Even if you would read the New Testament itself you would see that it is Jesus that says that it
is said in riddles.

However, the Quran is not like that. The Quran is straightforward and can never, Allah forbid, be
given different meanings.

The Bible and the New Testament can. And this is where the problem begins.

Thus, it is the task of Muslim to explain and sometimes remind to others, when they are wrong, that they are wrong.

This sounds more and more like a stealth crusader.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Aadil.

Contrary to the Quran. The Bible is not straight forward as even those who believe in it believe in it in a completely different way than that in which the Muslims believe in the Quran.

For us, Muslims, the Quran is a book that shows the way of truth in an indisputable way.

The Bible is the opposite of that. In fact if you would look at the way Bible is considered it is read as a book
which has infinite interpretations. The direct opposite of the Quran.

It does not mean that the Bible is wrong - it just means it has a different purpose.

However, since the Bible is not a straightforward it is a book that can be taken to any direction you want.

If your soul is guided you would take it to good places.

If your soul is unguided you would take it to bad places.

Since the Quran is the only book which gives such guidance in my opinion any person who reads the Bible
without the Quran cannot be guided. And this is my view on the subject.

[aadil77]

Aadil, being nice is not always good. Allah is always good but not
always nice. Maybe I said my words to hastily and presented them
in a way which might sound offensive while, Allah forbid, I am not.

Let me explain -

What I meant to say is that Allah is not always nice
because sometimes, when needed, when those who do not
believe obey his will, he is also harsh and sometimes he is vengeful.
When necessary.

Indeed, you can see I am right, for the non-believers do we not refer to
him by the name "Al-Muntaqin" and "Al-Mumit" and by the name "Ad-daar"?

Of course, for a believer, these sides of him are far away from our mind and
it is only a sign of strong belief when it is. Yet, sadly, sometimes when judgment
is needed for some we know he needs to be harsh.

As for corruption.

Only people are corrupted. And they are corrupted by their evil inclinations and Jinns.
Corruption is a human word. The prophecies and scriptures
we have, from Prophets acknowledged by our Prophet cannot be corrupted because a prophecy or
scripture given by force of prophecy does not come from human words at all. And in case of
the prophets which we acknowledge does not come from the Jinn either.

Sorry I don't think me and you are following the same religion. I think you're some kind of undercover christian missionary

Your username suggests that quite clearly

Narrated Ubaidullah: "Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Your style of writing is the same over emotional message of 'blessings' and all those words christians use

[Predator]

You can only believe in one voice my friend. This is true.

But all voices. Even the ones you should not believe in are his.
It is just impossible otherwise.

.

lol . Ok brainbox , which one of these 2 verses is from God ?

Do not drink wine nor strong drink (Leviticus 10:9)

Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. (1Timothy 5:23)

This is clearly a contradiction, your bible is self refuting book and should be taken with a grain of salt

[Dagless]

You can not of course reconcile the two beliefs.

However, the words themselves exist in Allah's world
and therefore belong to him.

Please don't confuse matters. In the context of this thread the word of God is what God Himself has said.
All words may belong to Allah but this is not the same as saying Allah has said all things.

I can be neutral on things which have nothing to do with belief in Islam.

For instance.

If a Christian would come to me and tell me I believe that Jesues was
the son of God - I would say that he is an idolater not as an insult but
simply because this is the definition of the word - idolizing something
which you by yourself acknowledge is not God himself.

I think this is clear.

However, if a Christian would come to me - I see the term "son" as an
abstract term which says the Christ was on a very high spiritual level and
he was so free from the bounds of this world that he was not a "slave" but
rather such a devoted believer that he was to Allah's world almost like a son
in a kingdom. I would say this starts to make sense and goes into the domain
of neutral.

You are trying to confuse again. Firstly this is a very odd way to word things. Secondly, Jesus being the son of God is a central Christian belief. Its like saying if a vegan came up to you and said its ok to eat meat sometimes.

In my eyes, the Bible is a necessary preliminary to the Quran much like
a ground is a necessary preliminary to a flower. I think this is the best
example I can give.

There are so many reasons this cannot be correct but the main one which requires no quotes from the Quran or Hadith is this: The Bible contains things which are directly against what the Quran teaches. That in itself should tell you what you are stating is incorrect.



btw whenever I see this in my subscribed threads, I see the word "repulsive", is there no kinder word which could be used in the title?

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Ok, let's answer.

Airforce. If you want contradiction's in the Bible I can give you many more.

Why are there three different contradicting stories of creation?

Why are the histories described in the book of king contradicting the histories
described in Chronicles?

Why in the book of Chronicles Adam has only one child while in the beginning he
has three?

Are these not contradictions?

I do not care about the religions at all. You say that the assumption that Jesus is the
son of God is central to Christianity. But Christianity is wrong and we all know that
so I do not understand what you are saying here.

In my opinion the question of the relationship between Islam and other religions is interesting yet remains of minimal value now. This is because currently the number
of true believers in the other religions is not big.

The reason for this is because our main problem is not what is the essence of the relationship between the Quran and the Bible but rather the question of rather
religious issues are used by factors which are non-religious what so ever.

In fact if you would think about it you would see that this makes much sense and this is the main problem of the world today.

We all now that the Dajjal has the name Kafir on his forehead. So why do nobody see him?

Because he hides between others and he makes the unimportant things look important and the important things seem unimportant.

Therefore I am not confusing but clarifying. And no, my name is not that of Christian missionary. I do not like missionaries.

The main problem of Muslims today is that world affairs are not been conducted by religious terms (in which they have much credit and where we can easily justify our stand). If the world would turn into conducting itself on religious terms then things would be much simpler as I am sure you can agree.

The reason the world does not conduct itself by religious terms today has nothing to do with the Jews or the Christians which with by any reasonable means are completely powerless (at least when one speaks about truly religious institutions and not cover up for disbelief).

The reason is that people believe in something that is an absolute deception and our main problem is that we do not see it because it seems so based, correct and reasonable - and that is that people believe that people should base their view on life on pure reason.

This lies in complete violation of any religious principle I am aware to and is dangerous for the ongoing health of any society. The issue of what is the relationship between the Quran and the Bible is interesting yet secondary for me at this point. My main interest currently is that people would go away from believing in confusing things and start embracing religion. By that I of course mean that people should take upon themselves the message of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad. I think that this is the true mission of Islam today. Success in this would pave the way in any other endeavour the will of Allah dictates upon us. In this I am sure.

I have written in my introduction post the address for my blog, you can also find it in my
profile details. I would be glad beyond words if you would read it, tell me what you think of it and if you agree with it help my distribute it.

May the true way prevail.

Blessings.

[Ramadhan]

Ok, let's answer.

Airforce. If you want contradiction's in the Bible I can give you many more.

Why are there three different contradicting stories of creation?

Why are the histories described in the book of king contradicting the histories
described in Chronicles?

Why in the book of Chronicles Adam has only one child while in the beginning he
has three?

Are these not contradictions?

I do not care about the religions at all. You say that the assumption that Jesus is the
son of God is central to Christianity. But Christianity is wrong and we all know that
so I do not understand what you are saying here.

In my opinion the question of the relationship between Islam and other religions is interesting yet remains of minimal value now. This is because currently the number
of true believers in the other religions is not big.

The reason for this is because our main problem is not what is the essence of the relationship between the Quran and the Bible but rather the question of rather
religious issues are used by factors which are non-religious what so ever.

In fact if you would think about it you would see that this makes much sense and this is the main problem of the world today.

We all now that the Dajjal has the name Kafir on his forehead. So why do nobody see him?

Because he hides between others and he makes the unimportant things look important and the important things seem unimportant.

Therefore I am not confusing but clarifying. And no, my name is not that of Christian missionary. I do not like missionaries.

The main problem of Muslims today is that world affairs are not been conducted by religious terms (in which they have much credit and where we can easily justify our stand). If the world would turn into conducting itself on religious terms then things would be much simpler as I am sure you can agree.

The reason the world does not conduct itself by religious terms today has nothing to do with the Jews or the Christians which with by any reasonable means are completely powerless (at least when one speaks about truly religious institutions and not cover up for disbelief).

The reason is that people believe in something that is an absolute deception and our main problem is that we do not see it because it seems so based, correct and reasonable - and that is that people believe that people should base their view on life on pure reason.

This lies in complete violation of any religious principle I am aware to and is dangerous for the ongoing health of any society. The issue of what is the relationship between the Quran and the Bible is interesting yet secondary for me at this point. My main interest currently is that people would go away from believing in confusing things and start embracing religion. By that I of course mean that people should take upon themselves the message of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad. I think that this is the true mission of Islam today. Success in this would pave the way in any other endeavour the will of Allah dictates upon us. In this I am sure.

I have written in my introduction post the address for my blog, you can also find it in my
profile details. I would be glad beyond words if you would read it, tell me what you think of it and if you agree with it help my distribute it.

May the true way prevail.

Blessings.

You claim that we need to embrace religion and the way of Islam and the prophet SAW.

However, your writing is clearly not that of a muslim, at least not a muslim who follow the prophet SAW.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

Can I just post something that 'life is short' put on another thread.............

1. The Qur’an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
’Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.’ [Al-Qur’an 16:125]
‘The true servants of the Most Merciful are those who behave gently and with humility on earth, and whenever the foolish quarrel with them, they reply with [words of] peace.’ (al-Furqan 25: 63)

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith friendship, and peace.

Eric

[Predator]

Ok, let's answer.

Airforce. If you want contradiction's in the Bible I can give you many more.

Why are there three different contradicting stories of creation?

Why are the histories described in the book of king contradicting the histories
described in Chronicles?

Why in the book of Chronicles Adam has only one child while in the beginning he
has three?

Are these not contradictions? .

How do we know that a book claimed to be from God is really the Book of God? One of the tests, out of the many such tests, is - that a message emanating from an Omniscient Being MUST be consistent with itself. It ought to be free from all discrepancies and contradictions.
This is exactly what the LAST TESTAMENT, the Book of God says:

Holy Quran 4:82
Do they not consider the Quran with care
Had it been from anyone other than Allah
They would have found therein many a discrepancy


If God Almighty wants us to verify the authenticity of His Book (The Holy Qur-án) with this acid test, why should we not apply the very same test to any other Book claiming to be from Him

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

The world is created by Allah and has many voices in it. These voices seem to be contradicting to us -
but they are all of his creation.

[جوري]

The voices are contradicting because folks love to follow their whims and lowly desires rather than God's final word!
if you believe a book about self-immolating mangods, and messengers sleeping with their daughters when they were specifically sent to warn against the sins of the flesh along with hordes of others, then be my guest, but that does take you outside the folds of Islam!

peace

[Predator]

The world is created by Allah and has many voices in it. These voices seem to be contradicting to us -
but they are all of his creation.

Pastor Gabriel, How can a Bible the word of God have different voices , as God is one and has only one voice and how can God contradict himself like below



2 Samuel 24:13 - SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE.
1 Chronicles 21:11-12 - THREE YEARS OF FAMINE.


Matthew 27:5 - Hanged himself.
Acts 1:18 - And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out.

2 Samuel 6:23 - MICHAL never had a child until she died.
2 Samuel 21:8 - MICHAL had 5 sons.

2 Kings 24:8 - Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign.
2 Chronicles 36:9 - Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign.

1 Kings 16:6-8 - 26th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel.
2 Chronicles 16:1 - 36th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel.

The Bible is indeed corrupt and is undoubtedly filled with man's alterations, lies and corruption.


With this said, I'd like to you to reconsider your beliefs. I ask you to give Islam a serious and honest research and thought.

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Airforce - There is something that we have to
remmber and this is why I started the discussion to begin
with.

One has to remmber that the Torah is not the main basis
for the religion of Judaism, and even more so to the nation of
Judaisim as we know it today.

It is true that within these ideas there are many things which
deserve the word corrupt. However, when corruption exists
one has to concentrate ones criticism on the source of the
corruption beacuse otherwise ones criticism is unuseful.

I am sure you are well aware of the implications of this
corruption (as I can see from the picture in your signature).
My only interest is the following two things : That this corruption
would stop and that the world would acknowledge the message of
the Prophet Muhamad. In fact, we know that these to goals are
the same.

We have the same goals, I am sure in that, I know that.

[Thyme]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

The disciple is not above his teacher, but every one that is perfected shall be as his teacher. 41 But why lookest thou on the mote which is in the eye of thy brother, but perceivest not the beam which is in thine own eye?

or how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, allow me, I will cast out the mote that is in thine eye, thyself not seeing the beam that is in thine eye?

Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine eye, and then thou shalt see clear to cast out the mote which is in the eye of thy brother. 43

[Zafran]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

salaam

Its common - your bound to get people from both sides that like attacking other religions and beliefs. Theres many anti chirstian threads by muslims and many anti muslim threads by christains and other non muslims like athiests. Its ultimatly a forum - people like saying whatever they like when nobody knows who they actually are. They think they can get away with it.

peace

[aadil77]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

well I've made my intentions clear for this thread in the first post, don't see how it stops 'peace', there have been many debates between muslim and christian scholars - at the end of it both parties respect each other - it doesn't affect 'peace'

there was a genuine need for this thread otherwise I woudn't have posted it

[Rhubarb Tart]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

What Zafran said.

I think the title was phrased wrongly, it should have been something like "Questionable verses in the bible...". Would you have a problem with that Tymre?

[Ramadhan]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

This forum is about promoting the peace is Islam.

BUT this forum also serves many purposes:

1. answering/discussing questions from long time muslims as well as new muslims about aqeedah, fiqh, sira', etc etc
2. Strengthening eeman among muslims
3. discussing current affairs that may have impacts on muslims life
4. clarifying misconceptions about Islam
5. etc..etc..
6. and in one section, there is a "comparative religions" sections where we also discuss other religions' teachings and practices.

I don't see there is anything wrong with this thread. As muslims, we are obligated to do dakwah/syiar to promote Islam because we will be questioned by Allah SWT in during the judgement day why some people around us failed to enter Islam.
One way to do that is to point out the errors and falseness of their scriptures so that the followers of those religions realize that they have not been following the truth.
As far as I know, the discussions in this thread have been largely peaceful, so I don't understand why you accuse of such thing (that we don't promote peace)

[Ramadhan]

Wow. I thought this forum was about promoting the peace in Islam, but I've seen so many threads already, criticising other religions (especially Christianity). The welcome to this site was really nice, then I go to read threads like this... Can't you follow Allah truly and follow the footsteps of the religion of peace? Peace doesn't come from criticising others beliefs and holy books. You first have to perfect your own.

By the way, you are free to put forth your arguments and reject the notion there are such verses in bible.

[Hiroshi]

The purpose of this thread is to expose the contents of the bible that alot of people including christians and jews are unaware of. Its also to expose the hypocrisy of some christians and jews who try but fail at attacking the quran and at the same time will overlook the verses in their own bible. The purpose is also to show how badly the original true scriptures sent down by Allah and preached by our prophets have been modified and added to.

I don't expect christians or jews to justify these verses - since the meanings are quite clear, you're welcome to do so though. But please do not use the following excuses: meaning was lost in translation, the verse had a metaphorical meaning, verse not to be taken literally, you dismiss parts of bible eg; the OT, verse was not by god or jesus or whoever, they're out of context etc etc. At the end of the day its in your 'holy book' called the bible.

I'll start off with the violent verses advocating murder

-Ezekiel 9:5-7 "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. god threatens to kill women and children

-Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.god threatens to kill pregnant women and children by the sword

-Ezekiel 23 - 25 I will direct my jealous anger against you, and they will deal with you in fury. They will cut off your noses and your ears, and those of you who are left will fall by the sword. They will take away your sons and daughters, and those of you who are left will be consumed by fire. 26 They will also strip you of your clothes and take your fine jewelry. god threatens more slaughter

-Exodus 31:15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. god commands you to kill those who work on the sabbath

-If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky… Take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. – Deut 17:2-7
god commands you to kill anyone who worships other gods

-Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. Deuteronomy 13:7-12: Again you must massacre everyone follows different religions

In Soorah 11:81-82 we read of fire and brimstone raining down upon Sodom with only Lot and his family escaping. Were the children and pregnant women evacuated first?

[aadil77]

In Soorah 11:81-82 we read of fire and brimstone raining down upon Sodom with only Lot and his family escaping. Were the children and pregnant women evacuated first?

Probably not, but that was a punishment direct from Allah, not a command from jesus or god to go and specifically kill women - including pregnant women, children and even animals

[Hiroshi]

Probably not, but that was a punishment direct from Allah, not a command from jesus or god to go and specifically kill women - including pregnant women, children and even animals

On some occasions the Israelites were used by God to make a complete extermination of his enemies, this is true. But in the passages that you quoted, Ezekiel 9:5-7 describes a vision seen by the prophet and the ones doing the slaughtering there are angels. And in Hosea 13:16 and Ezekiel 23:25, the cruelty described there is carried out by pagan nations that were allowed to conquer the Jews when God removed his protection as a punishment.

[Salahudeen]

The OT was replaced by the NT the same way the Quran replaced the Bible. I guess you should therefore clarify this thread to be directed to Jews not Christians.

(Psalm 19:7)The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Gods law is perfect,

Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

all scripture is God breathed and usefull for teaching that INCLUDES both the N>T and O>T


Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:* "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.* I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.* (Matthew 5:17-18)"

It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled. fullfill doesnt mean to destroy it means to add to the law meaning make new ones in addition to the old ones

[Hiroshi]

(Psalm 19:7)The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Gods law is perfect,

Timothy 3:16 (New International Version)
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

all scripture is God breathed and usefull for teaching that INCLUDES both the N>T and O>T


Jesus orders Christians to follow the Old Testament's laws:* "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.* I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished.* (Matthew 5:17-18)"

It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled. fullfill doesnt mean to destroy it means to add to the law meaning make new ones in addition to the old ones

Very good application of scripture.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

In Soorah 11:81-82 we read of fire and brimstone raining down upon Sodom with only Lot and his family escaping. Were the children and pregnant women evacuated first?

is there any evidence to suggest they weren't? how do we know that there pregnant women and child to begin with?

[Hiroshi]

is there any evidence to suggest they weren't? how do we know that there pregnant women and child to begin with?

Soorah 11:78-79 speaks of Lot's daughters which I believe Muslim commentators understand to refer to other women in the city (i.e. not his literal daughters). And with such a sex-crazed atmosphere it would be surprising if at least some of such women were not pregnant (otherwise why would Lot suggest that the mob have the women instead of his guests?) Also Genesis 19:4 indicates that young ones were there in the city ("from boy to old man").

[Ummu Sufyaan]

umm im quite lost. they were gaybo's, how did the women become impregnated genius. am i missing something here?


err its best not to jump to conclusions then present mere assumptions as evidence to support a baseless claim.

[Ramadhan]

Soorah 11:78-79 speaks of Lot's daughters which I believe Muslim commentators understand to refer to other women in the city (i.e. not his literal daughters). And with such a sex-crazed atmosphere it would be surprising if at least some of such women were not pregnant (otherwise why would Lot suggest that the mob have the women instead of his guests?) Also Genesis 19:4 indicates that young ones were there in the city ("from boy to old man").

1. As Aadil in the previous post has said, the verses referred to God's direct punishment to the people of Lut a.s., as opposed to jesus or god's commands in the bible verses to go and specifically kill women - including pregnant women, children and even animals.

2. The verses in the Qur'an did not mention about god's vengeful wrath on pregnant women, children and animals, as opposed to the repulsive verses in the bible that clearly showed god as quick-tempered wrathful one.

3. The people of Lut a.s. practiced homosexuality, so how did you get to conclude there were pregnant women everywhere? Is that what your bible says or is that your own fantasy?
I think it's time for you to read your bible cover-to-back to really understand that it is full of contradictions, errors and pornography, and then maybe you will realize that there were a lot of personal interests on the part of bible authors who wrote things based on their desires that completely changed jesus' true teachings.

[Hiroshi]

umm im quite lost. they were gaybo's, how did the women become impregnated genius. am i missing something here?

Compare Judges 19:22-25 where a most similar atrocity was carried out by Israelites of the tribe of Benjamin (Judges 19:16). They threatened to rape a male guest in someone's house but in the end raped his concubine instead.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

your not being consistent. first it seems like you are attacking the Quran then you defend your view by introducing verses of the bible.

p.s we dont allow preaching of other faiths on this forum.

[Hiroshi]

your not being consistent. first it seems like you are attacking the Quran then you defend your view by introducing verses of the bible.

p.s we dont allow preaching of other faiths on this forum.

I was informed (or possibly misinformed) by other Muslim members of Islamic Board, that it is allowable to quote the Bible only on this section of Comparative Religion. When did I attack the Qur'an? I only pointed out that it contains similar accounts to those in the Bible such as the story of Lot. I am not preaching my faith. But this thread is concerned with finding repulsiveness in the Bible and I understood that I would be allowed to comment.

[glo]

your not being consistent. first it seems like you are attacking the Quran then you defend your view by introducing verses of the bible.

p.s we dont allow preaching of other faiths on this forum.

With all due respect, Ummu Sufyaan, but it seems to me that Hiroshi quoted a Bible verse in order to answer the question which you asked him.

It seems unfair to first ask for evidence and then to complain about the evidence given as 'defending one's view' and 'preaching other faiths'.

With regards to promoting faiths other than Islam, we had some useful discussions in this thread.
Here is what Woodrow recommended:

One problem I see us Muslims have is when we ask a person of another faith what their beliefs are we tend to view it as them promoting their beliefs when they honestly state what they believe. A difficult area to work around. Either we learn not to ask such questions or we learn to be more specific in how we ask or we learn to see the answer as an answer and not as promoting a faith.

Salaam

[Hiroshi]

1. As Aadil in the previous post has said, the verses referred to God's direct punishment to the people of Lut a.s., as opposed to jesus or god's commands in the bible verses to go and specifically kill women - including pregnant women, children and even animals.

2. The verses in the Qur'an did not mention about god's vengeful wrath on pregnant women, children and animals, as opposed to the repulsive verses in the bible that clearly showed god as quick-tempered wrathful one.

Soldiers of pagan nations in Bible times were brutal in their actions and often spared no one. One particularly nasty practice of theirs was the slaughter of pregnant women as described in Hosea 13:16. God is not here singling out pregnant women as the special target for his wrath. He is warning the people of Samaria what they must expect if they rebel against God and lose God's protection. An attack by enemy nations would have terrible consequences for them.

3. The people of Lut a.s. practiced homosexuality, so how did you get to conclude there were pregnant women everywhere? Is that what your bible says or is that your own fantasy?
I think it's time for you to read your bible cover-to-back to really understand that it is full of contradictions, errors and pornography, and then maybe you will realize that there were a lot of personal interests on the part of bible authors who wrote things based on their desires that completely changed jesus' true teachings.

Sodom was both a city and a kingdom. I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to suppose that there were no pregnant women or children there in the time of Lot.

[Hiroshi]

3. The people of Lut a.s. practiced homosexuality, so how did you get to conclude there were pregnant women everywhere? Is that what your bible says or is that your own fantasy?

I found some info on a website that gives you some idea of the scale of Sodom and the surrounding cities that were destroyed by God.

Quote:
"Archaeology confirms that in the time just before Abraham, the settlement pattern of the land was also quite different than it is today. The hill country up above the Jordan Rift on the east and west, where almost all the population lives today, was sparsely settled, leaving lots of open space for Abraham to pasture his flocks. Most of the large population centers were in the lowlands. This includes the Jordan Rift Valley, where five large cities were discovered by archaeologists dating to this period. To give you an idea of the size of these cities: the first burial ground discovered (at Bab edh-Dhra) held up to 500,000 burials! That's one of the largest cemeteries yet found in the entire ancient Middle East. Two others were soon discovered with nearly equal numbers of burials (at Feifa and Khanazir): that's a total of up to 1.5 million burials! There must have been a lot of people living here at the time. This confirms that the land was more fertile in the past. Otherwise it's hard to imagine how so many people could have survived here. These five cities match the five "cities of the plain" mentioned in Genesis: Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Bela (Gen. 14:2)."

It seems that I am not yet allowed to include links in my posts so I cannot give the link for this.

[Hiroshi]

With all due respect, Ummu Sufyaan, but it seems to me that Hiroshi quoted a Bible verse in order to answer the question which you asked him.

It seems unfair to first ask for evidence and then to complain about the evidence given as 'defending one's view' and 'preaching other faiths'.

Thanks for your note of support there Glo.

[Seek]

Hello brothers and sisters,

It seems that I'm coming out all of a sudden and asking a question that might have been answered. But my Christian brothers and sisters, what do you think of these verses? I just want simple opinions please :) thank you

[Hiroshi]

3. The people of Lut a.s. practiced homosexuality, so how did you get to conclude there were pregnant women everywhere? Is that what your bible says or is that your own fantasy?
I think it's time for you to read your bible cover-to-back to really understand that it is full of contradictions, errors and pornography, and then maybe you will realize that there were a lot of personal interests on the part of bible authors who wrote things based on their desires that completely changed jesus' true teachings.

Actually I confess that I do see a flaw in my own argument. In Genesis 18:32 God declares that he will not destroy Sodom if he finds even ten righteous men there. This seems to say that only the wicked were destroyed, not anyone innocent.

[Hiroshi]

Hello brothers and sisters,

It seems that I'm coming out all of a sudden and asking a question that might have been answered. But my Christian brothers and sisters, what do you think of these verses? I just want simple opinions please :) thank you

What verses Seek?

[Ummu Sufyaan]

EDIT.......:hmm:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

I was informed (or possibly misinformed) by other Muslim members of Islamic Board, that it is allowable to quote the Bible only on this section of Comparative Religion.

i see...i didnt know this...or at least it slipped my mind. i didn't bother with the other thread that Woodrow started. i figured it was getting filled up with too much crap and there is only a certain amount my smelling mechanisms can handle.

When did I attack the Qur'an? I only pointed out that it contains similar accounts to those in the Bible such as the story of Lot.

your question about pregnant women and children being evacuated seemed to indicate a different intent. perhaps i misunderstood... i'll give the benefit of the doubt.

I am not preaching my faith. But this thread is concerned with finding repulsiveness in the Bible and I understood that I would be allowed to comment.

you asked a question about the quran, i thought it would only be relevant to answer from that point of view. considering my reply wasn't based on the biblical opinion, im not entirely sure why biblical verses were posted in attempt to explain your point of view. perhaps i wasn't wasn't clear? again i'll give the benefit of the doubt.

[Zafran]

Sodom was both a city and a kingdom. I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to suppose that there were no pregnant women or children there in the time of Lot.

No it isnt because 1 -there is no evedince for it 2 - God specifically gave a warning to the people that commited sodomy.

[Ramadhan]

Ooooh..... I actually like this!

This post shows us glo's truer color, which is a christian warrior in the inside.

With all due respect, Ummu Sufyaan, but it seems to me that Hiroshi quoted a Bible verse in order to answer the question which you asked him.

It seems unfair to first ask for evidence and then to complain about the evidence given as 'defending one's view' and 'preaching other faiths'.

With regards to promoting faiths other than Islam, we had some useful discussions in this thread.
Here is what Woodrow recommended:


Salaam

[Hiroshi]

No it isnt because 1 -there is no evedince for it 2 - God specifically gave a warning to the people that commited sodomy.

You could be right. Please see my post number 96.

On the one hand, it is difficult to believe that there were at that time no children and even unborn babies in Sodom as there would be in any large community of people. But on the other hand, God assures us that he will not destroy the righteous along with the wicked (Genesis 18:23), not even as many as ten (Genesis 18:32).

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I do not think this thread brings glory to God in any way at all, and I fail to see how it is helpful to either Islam or Christianity.

We are all created by the same wonderful God, and the same God hears all our prayers. We have a duty to care for all of God’s creation, and that has to include caring for each other.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship.

Eric

[syed_z]

Soorah 11:78-79 speaks of Lot's daughters which I believe Muslim commentators understand to refer to other women in the city (i.e. not his literal daughters). And with such a sex-crazed atmosphere it would be surprising if at least some of such women were not pregnant (otherwise why would Lot suggest that the mob have the women instead of his guests?) Also Genesis 19:4 indicates that young ones were there in the city ("from boy to old man").

Asalaam O Alaikum Brothers/sisters....


I just would like to say, that Quran specifically speaks about how does Allah (swt) deals with those righteous people who are among the evil folks who get punished...


(6:47) Say "Can you imagine what your condition will be if God's chastisement befalls you, either suddenly or in a (gradually) perceptible manner ? (but then) will any but evil doing folk (ever) be destroyed ?"


The way of Allah (swt) dealing with nations in the past and the present is the same, the Way (Sunnat) of Allah never changes...


(30:30)... No change should there be in the creation of Allah ....


when Allah says in the Quran.... (but then) will any but evil doing folk (ever) be destroyed...is clear that Allah (swt) when ever destroyed the previous nations for their evil, He destroyed the evil among them and NOT the good ones, but does that mean the good ones were all dead before ? No ... but what Allah tells us here that, by the word "destroy" ... it means that the righteous even if they suffered a physical destruction, they are bound to attain spiritual bliss and are not "destroyed" like the evil doing folks, who are destroyed not only in this world but also in the Hereafter....

[tango92]

Greetings and peace be with you all,

I do not think this thread brings glory to God in any way at all, and I fail to see how it is helpful to either Islam or Christianity.

We are all created by the same wonderful God, and the same God hears all our prayers. We have a duty to care for all of God’s creation, and that has to include caring for each other.

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith understanding and friendship.

Eric

did the holy spirit inspire the pornography in the bible? seems like god is bringing dishonour to himself. i forget, god is simply humbling himself? oh no, its only the jesus section which is humble, since the holy spirit inspired the bible we conclude the holy spirit is a bit perverted.

[glo]

Ooooh..... I actually like this!

This post shows us glo's truer color, which is a christian warrior in the inside.

If by 'Christian warrior' you mean somebody who tries to stand up for fairness, justice and peace, then I am quite happy with your description.

Ummu Sufyaan made a comment which I thought was unfair towards another poster, and I felt it worth commenting on.

Under different circumstances I might have chosen not to comment, but Hiroshi is a new member here and I wanted him to be aware that the views expressed by Ummu Sufyaan were not necessarily representative of the forum as a whole.
That's why I thought it was worth referring back to Woodrow's recent thread in general, and to his comments made here in particular.

[جوري]

Ooooh..... I actually like this!

This post shows us glo's truer color, which is a christian warrior in the inside.

I wouldn't call her a 'christian warrior ' albeit it a 'true christian warrior' isn't any more apt at what they do, not much to sell folks by way of mangods.. just a woman using her wiles and sugar coating ever much hoping that it is deceptive to the majority.. except everyone sees right through it-- I believe even her own kind!

I really despise 'ganging up' on someone, but I wanted to assure you that what you know is known to most..

:w:

[glo]

^
Come to think of it, I am more a worrier than a warrior, really ... indeed, I have a habit of worrying way too much. :nervous:

My husband keeps reminding me by asking "What's the worst thing that can happen?!" :statisfie

[جوري]

thanks for the heads up.. I'll remedy the spelling error and may you remedy your psychological blebs..

all the best

[Hiroshi]

Asalaam O Alaikum Brothers/sisters....


I just would like to say, that Quran specifically speaks about how does Allah (swt) deals with those righteous people who are among the evil folks who get punished...


(6:47) Say "Can you imagine what your condition will be if God's chastisement befalls you, either suddenly or in a (gradually) perceptible manner ? (but then) will any but evil doing folk (ever) be destroyed ?"

Yes, yes. The Bible says similar things. Please refer to my later posts number 96 and 102.

[Hiroshi]

Asalaam O Alaikum Brothers/sisters....


I just would like to say, that Quran specifically speaks about how does Allah (swt) deals with those righteous people who are among the evil folks who get punished...


(6:47) Say "Can you imagine what your condition will be if God's chastisement befalls you, either suddenly or in a (gradually) perceptible manner ? (but then) will any but evil doing folk (ever) be destroyed ?"


The way of Allah (swt) dealing with nations in the past and the present is the same, the Way (Sunnat) of Allah never changes...


(30:30)... No change should there be in the creation of Allah ....


when Allah says in the Quran.... (but then) will any but evil doing folk (ever) be destroyed...is clear that Allah (swt) when ever destroyed the previous nations for their evil, He destroyed the evil among them and NOT the good ones, but does that mean the good ones were all dead before ? No ... but what Allah tells us here that, by the word "destroy" ... it means that the righteous even if they suffered a physical destruction, they are bound to attain spiritual bliss and are not "destroyed" like the evil doing folks, who are destroyed not only in this world but also in the Hereafter....

I think that something like family responsibility must enter the picture somewhere. If parents act unwisely or wickedly then this would naturally bring harmful consequences upon their young children.

In Luke 17:27 Jesus says that men and women were marrying right up until the time of Noah's flood which destroyed them. Surely then there must have been children and unborn babies that were also destroyed in the flood, due to their parents' failure to heed Noah's warning.