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glo
05-01-2010, 06:36 PM
I just heard that several social networking sites and blogs etc have declared May 20th 'Draw Muhammed Day'! They are calling on people to produce and publicize images of Muhammed! :exhausted
This is going to stir up such tension and friction with the Muslim communities again ...

When will people learn to address issues peacefully, instead of using mockery and provocation! :hmm:
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quranalim
05-01-2010, 06:46 PM
Scholars have said wheover mocks the prophet must be punished
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Darth Ultor
05-01-2010, 06:51 PM
But what is the big deal about a serious representation? Like, suppose somebody wants to make a biographical film about Muhammad (pbuh) and portrays him in a serious manner, why is that a bad thing? Or at least show him from the back or everything but his face. One movie did that with Jesus.
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aadil77
05-01-2010, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Boaz
But what is the big deal about a serious representation? Like, suppose somebody wants to make a biographical film about Muhammad (pbuh) and portrays him in a serious manner, why is that a bad thing? Or at least show him from the back.
Because prophets were the best of mankind, they cannot be represented through any imaginery, it would be an insult to them.

They were extremely beautiful in every way, no one will be able to represent this through acting or drawings

There has been a movie about the prophet Muhammad, its called the message, they don't show him or his voice but a first person view through him
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Güven
05-01-2010, 07:04 PM
They want revenge because of the censoring in South Park. That's really pathetic :hmm:

I still don't understand why people are so obsessed with drawing a picture of someone. ( in this case our Prophet s.a.w)
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Snowflake
05-01-2010, 07:26 PM
Well here's news for them. They CAN'T draw the Prophet (saw). Because they don't know what the Prophet (saw) looked like. Drawing a caricature and giving it a name does not make it of that person when it has no resemblance. This is what muslims need to remember. They know it will rub muslims up the wrong way that's why they keep on doing it. How would they feel if we ignored their pathetic attempts to insult the Prophet by saying, 'Sorry but that is not the Prophet!' Would they find it fun to keep doing it? I doubt it.

Scholars have said wheover mocks the prophet must be punished
Did they say how? I can't see how that can be put into practice. Riots have achieved nothing. Petitions are a joke. Who listens? If for once we ignore them and not give them a reaction, their fun will have lost it's appeal and no one likes doing anything that isn't fun. It's a reaction they want, and we are giving it to them. Let's just curse them and pray to Allah to either guide them or destroy them.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I just heard that several social networking sites and blogs etc have declared May 20th 'Draw Muhammed Day'! They are calling on people to produce and publicize images of Muhammed! :exhausted
This is going to stir up such tension and friction with the Muslim communities again ...

When will people learn to address issues peacefully, instead of using mockery and provocation! :hmm:
As-salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

Aaoothobillah wa la hawla wa la quwatta...:(

They will be disgraced and dishonored in this duniya wal akhira. They are challenging the peaceful religion of Islam, and taking away the rights of muslims.

زُيِّنَ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَيَسْخَرُونَ مِنَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ۘ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّقَوْا فَوْقَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ يَرْزُقُ مَن يَشَاءُ بِغَيْرِ حِسَابٍ
Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe. But those who obey Allah's Orders and keep away from what He has forbidden, will be above them on the Day of Resurrection. And Allah gives (of His Bounty, Blessings, Favours, Honours, etc. on the Day of Resurrection) to whom He wills without limit. Sura Al-Baqara Verse 212

Praise be to Allaah.

The story referred to in the question was narrated by Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said:

A blind man had a female slave who had borne him a child (umm walad) who reviled the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and disparaged him, and he told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she paid no heed.

One night she started to disparage and revile the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so he took a dagger and put it in her stomach and pressed on it and killed her. There fell between her legs a child who was smeared with the blood that was there.

The next morning mention of that was made to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and he assembled the people and said: “I adjure by Allaah the man who did this to stand up.”

The blind man stood up and came through the people, trembling, and he came and sat before the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He said: O Messenger of Allaah, I am the one who did it. She used to revile you and disparage you, and I told her not to do it but she did not stop, and I rebuked her but she paid no heed. I have two sons from her who are like two pearls, and she was good to me. Last night she started to revile you and disparage you, and I took a dagger and placed it on her stomach and I pressed on it until I killed her.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Bear witness that no retaliation is due for her blood.”

Narrated by Abu Dawood (4361) and others. In the answer to question no. 103739 we have explained that the basis of this story is saheeh and that it has been narrated in several versions which, when taken together, indicate that the incident did indeed take place, despite the variations in some reports.

This woman was not killed because she was a dhimmi, rather it was because she reviled the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), so she deserved to be executed for that reason, and if she was a Muslim, she became a kaafir by this action, and deserved to be executed for that reason too.

Al-San’aani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

This report indicates that the one who reviles the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is to be executed and no blood money is to be paid for him; if he is a Muslim his reviling of him (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is apostasy for which he deserves to be executed. Ibn Battaal said: without being asked to repent.

Subul al-Salaam (3/501).

We have previously quoted the view of Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah concerning the confusion about this story in which the blind man killed this woman – who deserved to be killed – without the permission of the ruler. Please see the answer to question no. 103739.


This story is indicative of the justice with which the Muslims dealt with the people of the Book, which was enjoined in the sharee’ah of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who was a mercy to the worlds. The rights of the Jews who are under Muslim rule are guaranteed and protected, and it is not permissible to transgress against them by causing them any annoyance or harm. Hence when the people found a Jewish woman who had been killed they were alarmed and referred the matter to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who had made the covenant with them and guaranteed them security, and who did not take the jizyah from them. He got angry and adjured the Muslims by Allaah to find out who had done this deed, so that he could determine his punishment and judge his case. But when he found out that she had transgressed the covenant several times by reviling the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and impugning him, she forfeited all her rights and deserved the hadd punishment of execution which is imposed by sharee’ah on everyone who reviles the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), whether he is a Muslim, a dhimmi or a mu’aahid (non-Muslim living under Muslim rule), because impugning the status of the Prophets is kufr or disbelief in Allaah the Almighty, and a transgression of every sacred limit and right and covenant, and a major betrayal which deserves the greatest punishment.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/111252/slave
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Darth Ultor
05-01-2010, 08:46 PM
About not showing the prophets, why wasn't a big deal made about Moses and Jesus? I have seen many movies about the exodus and one movie about Jesus. Weren't they both actually of Arab descent?
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aadil77
05-01-2010, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Boaz
About not showing the prophets, why wasn't a big deal made about Moses and Jesus? I have seen many movies about the exodus and one movie about Jesus. Weren't they both actually of Arab descent?
I get ticked off when they take the mick out of any prophets, but its become common and since christians do it themselves by humiliating and degrading prophet Isa (Jesus) with half naked statues of him in churches - we can't do much. Its a disgrace to the honour and dignity of prophets, they were the best of mankind, the most beautiful of Allahs creation and they get insulted like this.
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Life_Is_Short
05-01-2010, 09:23 PM
This is very sad. Very sad indeed. :cry:
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Supreme
05-01-2010, 09:23 PM
Another thing: Muhammed was just a man. An ideal Muslim man, sure, but a man nonetheless. He's not some superhuman with God-like attributes who has to be worshipped and not criticized under any circumstances. If these people were (directly) insulting God, specifically the Islamic concept of God, I might understand the furor. As it is, he was just a man, a prophet no more special or powerful than the others, and you don't hear these sorts of things happen when other Islamic prophets are depicted or insulted, do you?
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Life_Is_Short
05-01-2010, 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Another thing: Muhammed was just a man. An ideal Muslim man, sure, but a man nonetheless. He's not some superhuman with God-like attributes who has to be worshipped and not criticized under any circumstances. If these people were (directly) insulting God, specifically the Islamic concept of God, I might understand the furor. As it is, he was just a man, a prophet no more special or powerful than the others, and you don't hear these sorts of things happen when other Islamic prophets are depicted or insulted, do you?
And this is coming from a Christian brother.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-01-2010, 09:38 PM
Yes agreed he was a man..but he was the best of creation also ...he was a perfect rolemodel for the whole of humanity,there is no human today or lets say a normal living humans of today that was as perfect as him, he was perfect because God created him perfect and thats why he is the perfect rolemodel for everyone. There is a difference between a normal man and a prophet...As a prophet is someone who comes to guide people and the people are the one being guided...same for every nation whereupon a prophet was sent!...

For we can try be like them, but not "exactly" like them, as theyre perfect in every way..i think you will surely need to read up on the stories of every prophet ofcourse including Muhammad sallahu alayhi wa salam life story and how much people of his time loved him so, surely you will understand!
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aadil77
05-01-2010, 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
Another thing: Muhammed was just a man. An ideal Muslim man, sure, but a man nonetheless. He's not some superhuman with God-like attributes who has to be worshipped and not criticized under any circumstances. If these people were (directly) insulting God, specifically the Islamic concept of God, I might understand the furor. As it is, he was just a man, a prophet no more special or powerful than the others, and you don't hear these sorts of things happen when other Islamic prophets are depicted or insulted, do you?
Allah is The Majestic, The Al-Mighty, The King, The Supreme, The Most Glorious, The Avenger nothing you say about him will affect His honour. Where as the prophet is in his grave, he cannot defend himself, like you said he was just a man, he does not have the qualities of god to protect his honour. Prophet muhammad like other prophets was no ordinary human being like christians make out, prophet Muhammad was the best of Allah's creation and of the prophets.

About other prophets read my post above
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-01-2010, 10:02 PM
They all came with one message "There is only One God", the Prophets all had good Characteristics and were Perfect Example for all..Like if there is something in our life we are not sure about what to do, we should look at what the Prophets did, how they dealt with a situation...



"And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): \"Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah).\" Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth)." [Al-Qur`aan]....
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Sawdah
05-01-2010, 10:14 PM
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Güven
05-01-2010, 10:15 PM
Now this is another difference between Christians and Muslims. We have more respect for our Prophets.


He wasn't just any man. He was the messenger of God. He is more important to us than any of our family members. yes we love him, respect him and honor him just like any other prophets. ( Including JESUS peace be upon Him) but that doesn't mean we worship him.

Wouldn't you defend the honor of your mother or your father when they are being insulted? no wait, Let me ask you this, How do you feel when they make fun of Jesus like that? After all, you Christians believe he is more than just a man, he is the son of God, right? But yet, I hardly see any Christians defending His honor.
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Supreme
05-01-2010, 10:17 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
Allah is The Majestic, The Al-Mighty, The King, The Supreme, The Most Glorious, The Avenger nothing you say about him will affect His honour. Where as the prophet is in his grave, he cannot defend himself, like you said he was just a man, he does not have the qualities of god to protect his honour. Prophet muhammad like other prophets was no ordinary human being like christians make out, prophet Muhammad was the best of Allah's creation and of the prophets.

About other prophets read my post above
But don't you see? By saying 'he's no ordinary human being', you're making him out to be superior, to be some sort of superhuman, with God-like qualities. This may be just me, and if it is, then fine, but I can really only relate perfection to God Himself. Only God is good, and by good, it means perfect. By saying any human being is perfect is associating them with a divine attribute. He may have had a special role to play as a messenger of God, but every human being has their drawbacks, and there's no compromise, even if you're talking about saints. By saying someone is perfect, it sounds like you are putting them on par with God. Whether or not that was what God wanted when, according to Islam, He set out to establish Himself as a perfect entity who alone should be worshipped, is another matter altogether.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
But don't you see? By saying 'he's no ordinary human being', you're making him out to be superior, to be some sort of superhuman, with God-like qualities. This may be just me, and if it is, then fine, but I can really only relate perfection to God Himself. Only God is good, and by good, it means perfect. By saying any human being is perfect is associating them with a divine attribute. He may have had a special role to play as a messenger of God, but every human being has their drawbacks, and there's no compromise, even if you're talking about saints. By saying someone is perfect, it sounds like you are putting them on par with God. Whether or not that was what God wanted when, according to Islam, He set out to establish Himself as a perfect entity who alone should be worshipped, is another matter altogether.
If the Brother was saying the Prophet is SUPERIOR...then why would he say this first.. i quote "Allah is The Majestic, The Al-Mighty, The King, The Supreme, The Most Glorious, The Avenger nothing you say about him will affect His honour."...

The Prophet was a ROLEMODEL and a perfect one at that. If we as muslims would take any Prophet as God we are commiting Shirk (Associating Partners with the Allmighty) when we say we respect the Prophet and the Prophets, its showing love as theyre like warners, they have come with Gods message, why wouldnt we show love and respect them? and hows that superiority?
Its not in the status of God to enter his creation to guide us rather Send perfect guidance, such as his Religion, his Book and his Messengers..If God was to enter his creation that wouldnt make GOD divine anymore...!
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marwen
05-01-2010, 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by glo
I just heard that several social networking sites and blogs etc have declared May 20th 'Draw Muhammed Day'! They are calling on people to produce and publicize images of Muhammed! :exhausted
This is going to stir up such tension and friction with the Muslim communities again ...

When will people learn to address issues peacefully, instead of using mockery and provocation! :hmm:
I don't think we can do something (at least for now) to make these people stop these stupid caricatures. You know among "anti-muslims", there is always this type of people who don't know how to speak in a proper way, and they are not intelligent enough to formulate clear arguments againts islam so they take refuge in mockery and in indecent expressions and drawings as their unique way to express themselves. So we really don't have to look at them or speak with them, because they simply are so pathetic and so stupid that they can't understand our talking.
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Supreme
05-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Muslim World 12
If the Brother was saying the Prophet is SUPERIOR...then why would he say this first.. i quote "Allah is The Majestic, The Al-Mighty, The King, The Supreme, The Most Glorious, The Avenger nothing you say about him will affect His honour."...

The Prophet was a ROLEMODEL and a perfect one at that. If we as muslims would take any Prophet as God we are commiting Shirk (Associating Partners with the Allmighty) when we say we respect the Prophet and the Prophets, its showing love as theyre like warners, they have come with Gods message, why wouldnt we show love and respect them? and hows that superiority?
Its not in the status of God to enter his creation to guide us rather Send perfect guidance, such as his Religion, his Book and his Messengers..If God was to enter his creation that wouldnt make GOD divine anymore...!
I understand all too well the emphasis places on avoidance of shirk- which is why I'm questioning the unfailing love Islam possesses for one prophet. If my father banished me from his household, and then sent his friend to tell me I could rejoin the household, I will almost certainly hold the friend in high regard for delivering the truthful message- but I won't love him more than anymore of my family. He's just doing what most other people would do, delivering good news which he believes is the complete truth, and hoping to recieve a reward for his efforts. It is nothing extraordinary, and considering being a prophet is far more common in Islam than other religions (there's 124,000 of them, I believe), Muhammed was just doing what hundred of thousands of others purportedly did before him.

Anyway, with regards to the thread: I am not joining any group mocking any religion or their beliefs. It is a thing to do out of mere respect.
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Rabi Mansur
05-01-2010, 11:31 PM
:sl:

Brothers and Sisters:

On May 20th let's all do something special to honor the prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

I think that is the best response to the mockery that will occur on that day.

:wa:
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aadil77
05-02-2010, 12:23 AM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I understand all too well the emphasis places on avoidance of shirk- which is why I'm questioning the unfailing love Islam possesses for one prophet. If my father banished me from his household, and then sent his friend to tell me I could rejoin the household, I will almost certainly hold the friend in high regard for delivering the truthful message- but I won't love him more than anymore of my family. He's just doing what most other people would do, delivering good news which he believes is the complete truth, and hoping to recieve a reward for his efforts. It is nothing extraordinary, and considering being a prophet is far more common in Islam than other religions (there's 124,000 of them, I believe), Muhammed was just doing what hundred of thousands of others purportedly did before him.

Anyway, with regards to the thread: I am not joining any group mocking any religion or their beliefs. It is a thing to do out of mere respect.
I'm afraid you guys have all the wrong images of prophets, if you had ever sat in the company of a prophet, observed one, listened to their speech, observed their character you would develope love for them more than anyone/thing else on this planet, simply because they were men of god. They were completely special, you would naturally be inclined to them and attracted to them. You see you guys have no idea of the qualities of prophets, think of them as men sent straight from god, they were immensely blessed and extremely pious, theres no way you could love anyone more than them, you can only love Allah more than a prophet, then your family and so on. And yes prophets were superior in every way than other people, but they were not divine nor did they possess a single quality of Allah. What prophets did were never simple tasks like you make it out to be, they faced death, persecution, constant attacks, defamation etc, many were killed in the process.
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Skavau
05-02-2010, 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by Guven
They want revenge because of the censoring in South Park. That's really pathetic
That is what has caused this, yes. However they, and actually so would I argue that principle of free expression is absolutely worth fighting for and causing controversy over.

I still don't understand why people are so obsessed with drawing a picture of someone. ( in this case our Prophet s.a.w)
They aren't. It is the principle. Other posters on this thread are absolutely right when they say that Muslims have bought attention to it by protesting vociferously in some fashion when it happens.

Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
They will be disgraced and dishonored in this duniya wal akhira. They are challenging the peaceful religion of Islam, and taking away the rights of muslims.
No they aren't. It is not your democratic or secular right to prohibit any representation of the historical figure of Muhammad.
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Woodrow
05-02-2010, 02:06 AM
Need we do any more than think of the mental limitations of "South Park Fans" and have pity on them? May Allaah(swt) heal them of their retardation and grant them at least border-line intelligence.
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Snowflake
05-02-2010, 02:22 AM
^LOL Ameen! I don't know actually about the story with South Park. Can someone fill me in please?
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-02-2010, 02:28 AM
im confused? is this to ridicule him, sallalahu aleyhi wa sallam or...:? im not understanding what the intention behind this is?
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glo
05-02-2010, 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Well here's news for them. They CAN'T draw the Prophet (saw). Because they don't know what the Prophet (saw) looked like. Drawing a caricature and giving it a name does not make it of that person when it has no resemblance. This is what muslims need to remember. They know it will rub muslims up the wrong way that's why they keep on doing it. How would they feel if we ignored their pathetic attempts to insult the Prophet by saying, 'Sorry but that is not the Prophet!' Would they find it fun to keep doing it? I doubt it.
I completely agree, Scents of Jannah.

In fact, I have read some suggestions on aforementioned networking sites, which say that people could draw anything (not even a human being), as long as they named it Muhammed ...
Sounds crazy, eh??! ;D

But the thing is, Muslims in the past have been really outraged about such things.
Do you remember the school teacher in Sudan, who brought a teddy bear into the class and asked her children to give it a name? They - being predominantly Muslim children - thought of the name of the man they were taught to love and respect the most - and voted to name him Muhammed.
Muslim were up in arms and the teacher was arrested.

It's those kind of stories, which give trouble-makers and mockers the ideas to pull stunts such at 'Draw Muhammed Day' - and gives them the power to be effective!

I completely agree, that if all Muslims could stay calm and ignore the whole event (by - as you point out - remembering that such stunts can neither damage Muhammed nor Islam nor the Muslim people), then such events would cease.


Did they say how? I can't see how that can be put into practice. Riots have achieved nothing. Petitions are a joke. Who listens? If for once we ignore them and not give them a reaction, their fun will have lost it's appeal and no one likes doing anything that isn't fun. It's a reaction they want, and we are giving it to them. Let's just curse them and pray to Allah to either guide them or destroy them.
As far as I understand there are no riots or petitions suggested.
Simply getting as many people as possible to draw Muhammed and post up the picture on the internet, in blogs, in networking sites ...
I guess it is people's way of saying "Muslims may be able to stop Muhammed from being depicted in Southpark - but they cannot stop us all!" :hmm:
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-02-2010, 08:42 AM
But the thing is, Muslims in the past have been really outraged about such things.
Do you remember the school teacher in Sudan, who brought a teddy bear into the class and asked her children to give it a name? They - being predominantly Muslim children - thought of the name of the man they were taught to love and respect the most - and voted to name him Muhammed.
Muslim were up in arms and the teacher was arrested.
that's irreverent as the teacher had not intended to mock the Prophet, may the evil of those who are envious of him and the truthful religion he bought be reciprocated onto them.

It's those kind of stories, which give trouble-makers and mockers the ideas to pull stunts such at 'Draw Muhammed Day' - and gives them the power to be effective!
well you see if those mockers had actually bothered to do their research-sort of like the mockers on this very forum (:exhausted) who seem to have followed their footsteps- then they would know that a fatwa was produced clarifying that that ruling was a mistake.

I completely agree, that if all Muslims could stay calm and ignore the whole event (by - as you point out - remembering that such stunts can neither damage Muhammed nor Islam nor the Muslim people), then such events would cease.
hmm you see, i think its people that just need to grow up and grow a brain and learn how to be respectful. becuase...well you see, we all know (yes despite efforts by people who try to pin the blame on us and say things to appeal to our hearts and minds through their snide comments) that its not really fair to provoke someone and then blame them for reacting. i hardly think that if it were us initiating the trouble, then such an approach would be implemented by those who opposed us. ha, now im sure we can all agree on that! what do you say glo, being the woman of intelligence that you are, im sure that you would agree :D
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ardianto
05-02-2010, 09:03 AM
There are many Muslims named Muhammad. Even my sons first names are Muhammad.

Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
How would they feel if we ignored their pathetic attempts to insult the Prophet by saying, 'Sorry but that is not the Prophet!' Would they find it fun to keep doing it? I doubt it.
Or we can tell them "Hey, this is Muhammad Hamdan, a manager in my office".
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Snowflake
05-02-2010, 09:46 AM
^LoL good one!

Glo: I completely agree, that if all Muslims could stay calm and ignore the whole event (by - as you point out - remembering that such stunts can neither damage Muhammed nor Islam nor the Muslim people), then such events would cease.
Absolutely! It has only caused the idiocy to escalate. There is a saying in my lingo which goes something like, "One's silence can defeat a hundred." You only do something when you get a reaction. Hey so let's stop giving them one.

(The riots I was referring to happened after the cartoons incident.)
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
05-02-2010, 10:14 AM
Originally Posted by Supreme
I understand all too well the emphasis places on avoidance of shirk- which is why I'm questioning the unfailing love Islam possesses for one prophet. If my father banished me from his household, and then sent his friend to tell me I could rejoin the household, I will almost certainly hold the friend in high regard for delivering the truthful message- but I won't love him more than anymore of my family. He's just doing what most other people would do, delivering good news which he believes is the complete truth, and hoping to recieve a reward for his efforts. It is nothing extraordinary, and considering being a prophet is far more common in Islam than other religions (there's 124,000 of them, I believe), Muhammed was just doing what hundred of thousands of others purportedly did before him.

Anyway, with regards to the thread: I am not joining any group mocking any religion or their beliefs. It is a thing to do out of mere respect.

What Unfailing love of Islaam posessing one prophet? If you Knew the Prophet Muhammad (saw) brought the last and Final MESsage to Mankind, and that Message was the same message as Moses (as), Noah (as), Jesus (as) etc... Now if the message went corrupted, would you want to follow the corrupted message? or the truth (the uncorrupted)? Just coz the Message is corrupted it doesnt mean that the person who brought the message is also corrupted, but it was corrupted due to mankind ignorance and the tricks of the shaytaan (satan) . Now in this case the Propht Muhammad (saw) was brought with the truth, we have the RIGHT to love him, but in Islaaam every prophet was special to God in different ways, such as Abraham (AS) was known as the Friend of God, and the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is known as the Beloved of Allaah, and the Prophets if they were alive today would NOT have a problem with this, and if they didnt as they are PROPHETS why do you then?

Now dont the Christians Love Jesus(as) more than any other Prophets? coz i never seen a christian ever talk more about David (as), or Solomen (as) etc than Jesus as, then why so you have a problem?

Jesus (as) neever claimed to be God, since he worshipped God, are you saying God worshipped God? thats illogical, and just to remind you the Prophets are made up of better Characteristics , as every Prophet was Guidance to every nation!

hope i didnt offend you my intention was not to, and i hope i cleared something, if not hopefully ill try to next time...
Forgive me if i have said anything wrong or bad :(

Peace
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-02-2010, 11:39 AM
Originally Posted by Skavau
No they aren't. It is not your democratic or secular right to prohibit any representation of the historical figure of Muhammad.
I wasn't talking about democratic or secular right anyway..I understand that you guys have no respect for your own beliefs(by showing Isa alayhi as-salam in vulgar ways), so atleast let us defend our religion, our prophets(not just Prophet Muhammad PBUH), our books, our honor.

وَلَقَدِ اسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُلٍ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَأَمْلَيْتُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ أَخَذْتُهُمْ ۖ فَكَيْفَ كَانَ عِقَابِ

"And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked at before you (O Muhammad SAW), but I granted respite to those who disbelieved, and finally I punished them. Then how (terrible) was My Punishment! " 13:32 Sura Ar-Ra'd.
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Snowflake
05-02-2010, 01:21 PM
Supreme, my brother in humanity, firstly, nobody said Muhammad (PBUH)is super-human and has God-like qualities and should be revered as such. You already seem aware that is forbidden for muslims.


What we are saying is that God granted the Prophet (pbuh) qualities which not God-like but were above what any other man can possess. Don't you think if God can create Jesus from the womb of a virgin, He can create a man who is superior than the rest of us?


In all the good traits that a humanbeing could possess, the Prophet's were the most perfect. That makes the Prophet as being the best amongst men. We have good traits too. But they are up one minute, down the next. Passionate one minute and nowhere to be found the next. The Prophet's (saw) character remained consistent throughout his life. But it isn't the extraordinariness of his qualities alone that fills our hearts with love for him, but the love, mercy devotion and sacrifices with which he fulfilled his mission to save mankind from Hell. He brought to us an indestructible Message which bought man out of the darkness of the pre-islamic era into the light. He suffered unimaginable repercussions for not me, not you, but for the WHOLE of mankind. If anyone deserves to be loved the most amongst mankind, then it is the Prophet.


The majority of non muslims however, whether they are Christian/Jew/Hindu or other, don't hesitate to curse, insult, or make jokes about God or Prophets. Even blasphemy is a joke for some. There are Christians who don't even hesitate to name their dogs after Jesus and make jokes about him. May Allah protect us from such evil. It is not possible to follow the Message brought by your Prophet if you do not love him more than yourself, because you will put your desires before his teachings. The Prophet (saw) told us to love him more than ourselves so that we can adhere to what he left for us. To stick to it. To keep it with us for life. If we cannot love the Prophet (saw) more than our own selves, We will end up only muslims by name. Like the Jews and Christians of today. We live our religion. We breathe it. We do not assign it to a small part of our life for weddings and funerals. Our religion is reality. I'm sorry to say but your Books are so distorted that there is no reality left in them, only perception.

I don't know about you personally, but most Christians worship and pray to Jesus. Jesus did not even exist when God created your souls. He had no hand in you being created. He was created like you and me. But Christians have taken Jesus as God (may Allah protect us) and insulted God by associating with Him and His Sovenreignty a man of flesh and blood. A man who himself worshipped God. The man who never claimed to be God but prayed to Him with the words, "Our Father who art in Heaven..."


The only reason Supreme, you cannot understand the love and admiration a muslim holds in his heart for Muhammad, May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him, is because non muslims themselves have failed to love, respect and honour their own Prophets.



May Allah guide you and the other non muslims to the truth. Ameen.
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Skavau
05-02-2010, 01:31 PM
Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
I wasn't talking about democratic or secular right anyway..I understand that you guys have no respect for your own beliefs(by showing Isa alayhi as-salam in vulgar ways), so atleast let us defend our religion, our prophets(not just Prophet Muhammad PBUH), our books, our honor.

وَلَقَدِ اسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُلٍ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَأَمْلَيْتُ لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ أَخَذْتُهُمْ ۖ فَكَيْفَ كَانَ عِقَابِ

"And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked at before you (O Muhammad SAW), but I granted respite to those who disbelieved, and finally I punished them. Then how (terrible) was My Punishment! " 13:32 Sura Ar-Ra'd.
I'm not a Christian, I'm an atheist.

At any rate, you can defend your religion as much as you like.
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glo
05-02-2010, 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
hmm you see, i think its people that just need to grow up and grow a brain and learn how to be respectful. becuase...well you see, we all know (yes despite efforts by people who try to pin the blame on us and say things to appeal to our hearts and minds through their snide comments) that its not really fair to provoke someone and then blame them for reacting. i hardly think that if it were us initiating the trouble, then such an approach would be implemented by those who opposed us. ha, now im sure we can all agree on that! what do you say glo, being the woman of intelligence that you are, im sure that you would agree :D
Sister, I agree with you that in an ideal world there would not be any people who feel the need to mock and provoke people of other faiths and world views.

But since such people do exist and their mocking and provoking seems inevitable, it will be up to the Muslim world to respond to it with wisdom. I therefore agree with Scents of Jannah, seekerofjannah and others who feel that it would be best to ignore this event and let it die away.
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Darth Ultor
05-02-2010, 04:51 PM
There actually is a description of Muhammad somewhere. It can't be that no one in the world had some similar features. Oh, I have a question: suppose you're writing a story and wish to include the Prophet in there, can you describe what he looks like or have him speak?
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DataPacRat
05-02-2010, 06:17 PM
Latest story on the whole draw-Muhammed-or-not story is at the blog Friendly Atheist and Pharyngula. In short, on one campus, about 150 stick-figures were drawn on the sidewalks with chalk, and identified as Muhammed.

A letter from the local Muslim Association, and the response, is here. I know that not everyone has a Google Docs account, so I will place the text here as a quote:

Dear Atheists, Agnostics, and Freethinkers of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign,

My name is Omar Fareedi and I am the president of the Muslim Students Association at UIUC. I am writing to you in regards to the event you have planned called, "Chalking it up to Free Speech" on April 29th 2010. As you may or may not know, depicting any semblance of images of the prophet Muhammad is an issue that is highly offensive to most muslims around the world. While you may not believe in or follow the religion of Islam, I ask simply out of respect for the people of this tradition that you do not follow through with your intentions on depicting the final Prophet as a stick figure or otherwise.

Earlier this school year, I partook in a dinner with Eboo Patel and representatives from several faith based and secular humanist organizations from around campus to foster interfaith dialogue that encompassed universal values that existed in each of these traditions. One of the main purposes of the meeting was to recognize and acknowledge differences in belief systems, all the while coming together to express universal values, such as altruism, that existed in each of these traditions. Just this past weekend, there was an event headed in part by Interfaith in Action, that was in many ways a culmination of all the efforts that were initiated on that day. One Million Meals for Haiti was a brilliant success due to the joint efforts of such a diverse background of people.

It is in this context that I call your attention once again to the divisive nature of your event. I believe this to be an unproductive, hurtful and potentially distressful event for many Muslims on campus. There are over 250 people within the Muslim Students Association, most of whom are Muslims. In addition to that, there is a large Muslim community that resides in Urbana-Champaign. My responsibility in my capacity as the president of the MSA is to foster an environment that is conducive to Muslims feeling comfortable on campus. This event falls directly against that goal.

As I understand it, our groups share many positive beliefs. Principles such as positive ethical conduct and bettering the world are shared by both of our organizations. And while I disagree with some of the elements of this tradition, I fully recognize the Atheists, Agnostics and Freethinkers right to exist and would challenge anyone who would seek to purposely offend or otherwise harm the expression of the message that your organization teaches. Please understand that your actions are offensive to my tradition.

From what it appears to me, this event seems to be a reactionary and rash response to the actions of a fringe organization that does not represent mainstream Islam in any way whatsoever. The actions of this organization to threaten the lives of people who depicted an image of the prophet are not in the folds of acceptable behavior for the vast majority of Muslims. Muslim Revolution is a radical group and in no way do we lend credence to their practices and ideology. However, by responding in the way that you do, you aim to offend a much larger population of Muslims that do not support the killing of innocent people, but at the same time do not support visual depictions of the prophet.

My biggest goal is to seek to understand other people and the perspectives from which they come and I think this is a valuable goal for anyone to pursue. In that spirit, I urge you to understand the Muslim perspective and please cancel your event. I am in full agreement with you about the freedom of expression and free speech, but I implore you to understand that this event is completely unproductive. I would be more than willing to sit down to explain our tradition further in this context or in a much more general one and would hope that you would be willing to engage me. I ask only for mutual respect and understanding between our organizations and I stand directly against the bigotry and intolerance that is purported by people of both religious and secular humanist backgrounds.

On a final note, I bring your attention to a satirical article that was recently published on the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_549931.html

This article further goes to show the ridiculous nature of the radical muslim organization that began this current conundrum. Therefore, it is in this light that I propose to you an event that we can come together to understand one another (why Muslims find visual depictions of the prophet to be particularly offensive), while eating Triscuits as a protest of the ridiculously bigoted and intolerant. Even if this idea doesn't appeal to you, at the very least I ask that you sit down and speak to us instead of holding your event. I invite the executive board of AAF to sit down with me and the board of the MSA, to come to an understanding. Communication can often alleviate misunderstanding, and lack of communication often propagates it.


--
Omar Fareedi
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
President of the Muslim Students Association


------------------------------------------

(response email)

Omar,



Thank you for taking the time to email me and telling me your, and your organization’s, view of our event. We put a lot of discussion in whether or not to put this event together, both because of potential harm to ourselves and because we knew that we would, indeed, offend certain Muslims who believe that visual depictions of Muhammad are blasphemous, who also do not ascribe to the violent practices of these fanatical groups.



We want to emphasize, however, that the offending of Muslims is not at all our purpose nor our goal. I also understand that the fanatical group that made these death threats are by no means representative of Muslims in general.



I, too, attended the dinner with Eboo Patel and agree to everything you discussed concerning the importance of tolerance and diversity. We live in a country where we are allowed to practice whatever religion we want and free to express whatever we want- this freedom, as you know, is exactly what these individuals are suppressing.



I’m not sure if you have read Eboo Patel’s book, but in the beginning he discusses the entire purpose of his organization- he sees that there is this “line” in religions, and people on one side of the line, such as Eboo, support diversity and tolerance, while the other side is violent and threatens individuals, like the group in question. His organization is meant to make sure that religious people fall on the “good” side. But that doesn’t change the fact that there are others who are on the wrong side of the line, and merely discussing the matter and talking about how we all have certain beliefs that are positive isn’t always sufficient to change anything. This is the case when we are dealing with these extremists.



I apologize if our actions offend Muslims who do not support the actions of the revolutionmuslim group. I hope they understand that our actions are not targeted towards them, and that our response is to counter the suppression of free speech that these groups are acting upon us. If it were a Christian extremist group giving death threats concerning depictions of Jesus on the cross, we would do the same thing. If it was an atheist group making death threats concerning a poor portrayal of the nonreligious, we would act accordingly.



Also keep in mind that, while certain Hindus find eating cows blasphemous, they don’t complain whenever they see someone eating at a McDonalds. While some Jews think it’s extremely important to keep kosher, they are not offended when certain individuals do not. People have the right to practice any religion they want, however they so choose. However, they do not have the right to impose these religious beliefs onto others, even if those other people are doing actions that counter their personal beliefs. Drawing stick figures on the quad is by no means inherently offensive, unless someone specifically adheres to that religious belief that drawing a stick figure is OK until there is an arrow with the word “Muhammad” pointing to it.



And while we appreciate your idea of sharing triscuits, we feel that it doesn’t take a direct stand against the current situation that has unfolded, which directly concerns the depictions of the prophet. It is important to emphasize that people have the right to do things that some might consider blasphemous even if certain individuals, or even many individuals, find them offensive, and just sharing crackers doesn’t illustrate that purpose very well.



Despite all this, however, we feel it very important to do this event. If people have a problem with what AAF is doing, they have the right to discuss the matter with AAF, as you have, and we appreciate it. They can complain to the school, which I’m sure people will. They can protest the event, which is always a possibility. But that’s where an individual’s rights stop. Once people threaten the lives of people freely expressing their freedom of speech (and religion), it becomes a problem; a problem we have to take a stand against. We not only find it appropriate, but just, to demonstrate that we won’t stand for it, even if it unfortunately offends certain individuals who don’t hold those beliefs. In our society it seems that we have the freedom to express whatever we want, with the exception of certain aspects of Islam under fear of violence. This is why it’s so important for us to do the event. I hope that your group can understand our actions, and that, while your group is opposed, we can get past our differences and maintain a good relationship in the long run.



With all this being said, we would be happy to do something in the future where we can discuss both why we feel it an appropriate action and why your group doesn’t, and possibly in addition do some sort of event where we protest it together. Oftentimes when a select few groups from a religion do things that reflect poorly for the entire religion, you don’t see the other people in the religion actively standing up against them, so seeing Muslims actively protesting the death threats would be excellent, and would send an even stronger message if done with a nonreligious group.
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Asiyah3
05-03-2010, 01:41 PM
Those people are just pathetic and depressed not having anything better to do. Better ignore them.
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S_87
05-03-2010, 06:39 PM
may the curse of Allah be upon such people.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-03-2010, 06:55 PM
Ameen Thumma Ameen ^^
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tango92
05-09-2010, 10:20 PM
^triple and quadruple ameen
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جوري
05-10-2010, 04:07 AM
^^ ditto that....

I remember during the Lebanese Israeli war that SOB tony snow may Allah swt burn him eternally in hell was standing there all pompous telling off this reporter (of Lebanese origin) 'thank you for the hezbullah response' with utmost disdain .. I made du3a from my heart that moment that he tasted their pain and suffering live and die miserably.. and I swear to God it was shortly thereafter that he declared he had metastatic cancer. .. Du3a truly is the weapon of the believer and no veil comes between the oppressed and God (even if the oppressed is a kaffir) so you know what the least you can do is and know that it is pretty powerful.. May Allah swt yai3iz al'Islam wa'yansur almoslmeen .. and Dam* these vile creatures in this life and hereafter

ameen ya rabb

:w:
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siam
05-10-2010, 04:57 AM
Hypocrisy
Those advocating the drawing of the Prophets(pbuh) cartoon are asking Muslims to RESPECT the right to this so-called "freedom of speech" by them DISRESPECTING the Prophet(pbuh)!!!! amazing!!!!how intellectually-challenged some people are.

I commend the response of the Muslim Student Organization. I think that Muslims must always stand up for their beliefs---because in a free society---they have a right to do so. ----If they are offended----they have a right to say (peacefully)they are offended.
The Jews ignored the bigotry and prejudice that Europe had propagated under the guise of "Christianity" and what happened?----the holocaust!.
hate, bigotry, prejudice are never "acceptable" even under the banner of freedom of speech and if the west thinks they are---their societies have a serious problem.----and they really should seriously study their own history and LEARN from it.
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M..x
05-10-2010, 04:55 PM
These retards think they are achieving something in their sad pathetic life.
Yay I'm going to get my own back & draw a picture of a man they call Muhammad (pbuh) just to tick these Muslim people off (!) PATHETIC and stupid.
And what do they think they are going to achieve by drawing Our Blessed Prophet anyway? (Not like they know how he looks like)
Nowt, cause they're making themselves look like idiots so bravo retards. bravo.
I feel sad for the deluded fool that thought up of this whole concept, clearly a social outcast with nothing to do in his life and probably sits at home scratching himself in the corner HAH. Clearly he is worthy of an award or something for his utmost stupidity and ignorance.
What a solution to lifes problems, lets draw Muhammad (!)
L O O S E R S
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M..x
05-10-2010, 04:56 PM
And ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen. stupid ignorant idiots.
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Woodrow
05-15-2010, 04:35 PM
Common sense seems to have prevailed.

Creators of 'Everybody Draw Muhammad Day' drop gag after everybody gets angry

SOURCE

There may still be a spark of hope for those who have yet to find the truth.

Enough said on this thread:

:threadclo:
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