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Abdul Wahid
05-06-2010, 11:04 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8658017.stm

A woman visiting a post office in Novara, north-western Italy, has been stopped by police for wearing an Islamic veil covering her face.

A police official told the AFP news agency the woman would have to pay a 500-euro (£430) fine.

It is the first such police action since Novara brought in a by-law in January banning clothing preventing immediate identification in public.

The city is run by the anti-immigration Northern League.

The party is a powerful junior coalition partner in Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's national government.

'Not tolerated'

Novara Mayor Massimo Giordano said the by-law was meant to deter women from covering themselves with the veil in public.

"But unfortunately it is apparently not yet clear to everyone that clothes preventing the wearer's identification can be tolerated at home but not in public places, in schools, on buses or in post offices," he said, according to the Italian state news agency Ansa.

"There are still some people that refuse to understand that our community in Novara does not accept and does not want people going around wearing the burka."

He said the by-law was "the only tool at our disposal to stop behaviour that makes the already difficult process of integration even harder".

The woman, described as a Tunisian national, was apparently visiting the post office with her husband when she was stopped by police.

When her husband refused to let her be identified by male officers, they called in a female colleague, AFP reported.

Tighter rules

Italy has, since 1975, had a national anti-terrorism law which forbids any mask or clothing that makes it impossible to identify the wearer.

However, the law permits exceptions for "justified cause", which has often been interpreted by courts as including religious reasons for wearing a veil, Ansa reports.

Several local authorities have introduced tighter regulations, and a Northern League bill currently before parliament would specifically outlaw Islamic face veils.

Similar moves have been taking place in other Western European countries.

A ban on wearing masks and veils in public has passed the Belgian lower house and is set to go before the Senate. It would be the first such national law in Europe if approved.

The French government is pressing for similar legislation, and at the weekend a German member of the European Parliament said a ban should be enforced across the EU.
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S_87
05-06-2010, 12:42 PM
subhanAllah whats with all this picking on muslim women
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-06-2010, 01:02 PM
O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful. Sura Al-Ahzab..

They know that Niqab is to protect themselvs..but the are banning it as a lame excuse for "security" purposes. I dont know why all these laws are happening in European countries. Hopefully, U.S. wont do the same.
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cat eyes
05-06-2010, 02:15 PM
:sl: i don't know what would have been the right thing to do here islamically.

I know that when i go to a bank or my local post office i am always asked for identification especially at the post office they ask to see my passport so they must see my face..

this is the actual law and it is a good law because anybody can walk in and pretend to be you and steal your money cant they? god knows it happens all the time over here.. its very common. All they need is bank statements with your address on it etc and thats easy to do if these things are posted out to you.

i don't wish to make there jobs harder for them by refusing to abide by the law. i know that anybody who obeys this law are actually stopping thiefs from committing crimes that is punishable in islam by chopping off the arm

i think this is one for the scholars to decide what she should have done but this is just my opinion. there is alot of fraud.

Of course the ban on the country is wrong obviously but there is some things you have to abide by such as the points i mentioned above.

the niqaab protects the woman Alhamdulilah but Allah did not request us to break laws that are actually implemented to protect people in the first place. :wa:
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glo
05-06-2010, 02:36 PM
Interestingly enough, it is Human Rights campaigners and groups, which - apart from Muslims themselves - are most outspoken against the ban.

There is no evidence that wearing the full veil in public threatens public safety, public order, health, morals, or the fundamental rights and freedoms of others - the only legitimate grounds for interference with fundamental rights, Human Rights Watch said. And rather than help women who are coerced into wearing the veil, a ban would limit, if not eliminate, their ability to seek advice and support. Indeed, the primary impact of legislation of this kind would be to confine these women to their homes, rather than to liberate them, Human Rights Watch said.

[...]

A blanket ban on wearing such garments in public violates the fundamental right to freedom of religion, thought, and conscience as well as the right to personal autonomy, Human Rights Watch said. Bans of this nature - whether formulated in neutral terms or explicitly targeting the Muslim veil - have a disproportionate impact on Muslim women, and thereby violate the right to freedom from discrimination on the basis of religion and gender.
Source (The article is about the proposed burka ban in Belgium, not the incident in Italy)
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Abdul Wahid
05-06-2010, 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by cat eyes
:sl: i don't know what would have been the right thing to do here islamically.

I know that when i go to a bank or my local post office i am always asked for identification especially at the post office they ask to see my passport so they must see my face..

this is the actual law and it is a good law because anybody can walk in and pretend to be you and steal your money cant they? god knows it happens all the time over here.. its very common. All they need is bank statements with your address on it etc and thats easy to do if these things are posted out to you.

i don't wish to make there jobs harder for them by refusing to abide by the law. i know that anybody who obeys this law are actually stopping thiefs from committing crimes that is punishable in islam by chopping off the arm

i think this is one for the scholars to decide what she should have done but this is just my opinion. there is alot of fraud.

Of course the ban on the country is wrong obviously but there is some things you have to abide by such as the points i mentioned above.

the niqaab protects the woman Alhamdulilah but Allah did not request us to break laws that are actually implemented to protect people in the first place. :wa:
:sl:

Agree to some extent with what you have said.

Shouldn't it come down to what people want to wear. Everyone has a right to wear what they want.

I'm sure that the sisters who wear niqab will oblige to being asked for security purposes to take off their niqab when needed. Apart from that I think it's ridiculous to ban the niqab.

:wa:
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S_87
05-06-2010, 03:14 PM
I know that when i go to a bank or my local post office i am always asked for identification especially at the post office they ask to see my passport so they must see my face..

this is the actual law and it is a good law because anybody can walk in and pretend to be you and steal your money cant they? god knows it happens all the time over here.. its very common. All they need is bank statements with your address on it etc and thats easy to do if these things are posted out to you.
hmm i dunno about italy but ive not seen that here. the only time ive been asked to see my face was when taking out more than an x amount from my acount which was totally understandable. otherwise visiting the bank and PO they dont generally ask for identification in any case/or if it is, it doesnt have to be picture identification
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cat eyes
05-06-2010, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by amani
hmm i dunno about italy but ive not seen that here. the only time ive been asked to see my face was when taking out more than an x amount from my acount which was totally understandable. otherwise visiting the bank and PO they dont generally ask for identification in any case/or if it is, it doesnt have to be picture identification
they ask all the time here and i think it really dose matter. the picture identification is more reliable because i have worked in these places and many a times i was caught out by a con man pretending to be somebody hes not. he was wearing a motor bike helmet if i recall correctly.. because i did not bother telling him to remove it. i don't believe these people intended to discriminate the woman they were just following procedure
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cat eyes
05-06-2010, 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by Abdul Wahid
:sl:

Agree to some extent with what you have said.

Shouldn't it come down to what people want to wear. Everyone has a right to wear what they want.

I'm sure that the sisters who wear niqab will oblige to being asked for security purposes to take off their niqab when needed. Apart from that I think it's ridiculous to ban the niqab.

:wa:
of course we should be allowed to wear what we want.. im not disputing that but when it comes to certain laws.. you have no other choice.

Its pointless fighting the system because you will never win in kafir lands.

i remember my friend told me she went to pakistan with her husband.. she is a revert so when she arrived at the airport the staff did not bother checking her. she requested them to but they wouldn't because she was wearing niqaab and they thought it was inappropriate. they did not even search her hand bag. it dose not mean that if a person is wearing a certain religious clothing that the person should just trust them right away and take stupid risks like that.

and she really thought it was extremely foolish and now she knows why so many bombs go off in pakistan due to there lack of security safety
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Supreme
05-06-2010, 04:51 PM
A bit of simple mathematics: 1 silly law+1 silly woman= 1 needless fine! These laws banning veils and the like are stupid. But people who choose to directly violate that law are equally as stupid. This is in Italy, a country where the government prevents mosques being built on the grounds 'Muslim can pray anywhere'. What can you honestly expect?
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