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View Full Version : "Suicide Bomb Ants" prove evolution is wrong (improved repost)



quranalim
05-09-2010, 12:50 PM
Walking Bomb Ant

The ultimate sacrifice in public service is to destroy enemies by committing suicide in defense of the colony. Many kinds of ants are prepared to assume this kamikaze role in one way or another, but none more dramatically than workers of a species of Camponotus of the saundersi group living in the rain forests of Malaysia.

Discovered in 1970 by two entomologists, these ants are anatomically and
behaviorally programmed to be walking bombs. Two huge glands, filled with toxic secretions, run from the bases of the mandibles all the way to the posterior tip of the body. When the ants are pressed hard during combat, either by enemy ants or by an attacking predator, they contract their abdominal muscles violently, bursting open the body wall and spraying the secretions onto the foe.74

Such a serious sacrifice by the ants cannot, of course, be explained by either natural selection or by the "evolutionist socialization process". As emphasized many times before, the creature which carries out this very important sacrifice is not a man of a certain intelligence, education, sense and conscience, but an ant. Even if we think that ants may have gone through some physical change – there are ant fossils nevertheless that have remained unchanged for 80 million years – it is quite obvious that physical changes alone would not equip it with such features. No mutation experienced by a living being can cause its sudden transformation into a thinking, judging, feeling and sensing individual.

Even if we assumed that there had been an ant one day who decided to sacrifice itself to put up such a defence,it would of course be impossible for it to load this idea into its genes and transmit it to other ants.
Source 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpent...Exploding_ants
Source 2: http://www.harunyahya.com/ant07.php
Source 3: http://www.usnews.com/news/national/...e-bombers.html

These ants have been programmed to blow themselves up, will they be punished on judgement day for this? Ants were 1 of 4 creatures the prophet forbade killing, because they glorify allah.


The tafsir on Quran 6:38 says that all animals will be judged on judgement day.

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quranalim
05-09-2010, 12:57 PM
There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
—Qur'an 6:38

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=6&tid=15346
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Supreme
05-09-2010, 02:11 PM
This doesn't disprove evolution in any way, shape, space or form. However, those ants look like fascinating creatures. Also, what are the three other creatures that are not allowed to be killed in Islam?
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quranalim
05-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Hadith recorded by Ahmad , Abu Dawood from Ibn Abbas (Radiya Allahu Anhu) who said:

"Allah's Messenger (Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam) prohibited the killing of four animals: The ant, bee, shrike and hoopoe"
http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId
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quranalim
05-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Supreme
This doesn't disprove evolution in any way, shape, space or form. However, those ants look like fascinating creatures. Also, what are the three other creatures that are not allowed to be killed in Islam?
these ants prove evoultion wrong, as the scientist who discovered them said
"it would of course be impossible for it to load this idea into its genes and transmit it to other ants."
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Supreme
05-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by quranalim
these ants prove evoultion wrong, as the scientist who discovered them said
The opinion of one scientist regarding one species of animal does not invalidate an entire theory with substantiated evidence. The scientific community aren't going to change their minds any time soon. Sorry. Thank you for the Hadith BTW, although I hadn't even heard of the last two animals.
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Skavau
05-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by quranalim
these ants prove evoultion wrong, as the scientist who discovered them said
You are easily convinced. If it all it would take to convince you that evolution was wrong was the utterings of a single scientist saying "its wrong", then could a converse quote of another anonymous scientist saying "its right" put you into cognitive dissonance?

Indeed, who are the scientists you're referring to? Harun Yahya's website doesn't bother to source them.
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quranalim
05-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Skavau
You are easily convinced. If it all it would take to convince you that evolution was wrong was the utterings of a single scientist saying "its wrong", then could a converse quote of another anonymous scientist saying "its right" put you into cognitive dissonance?

Indeed, who are the scientists you're referring to? Harun Yahya's website doesn't bother to source them.

an interview with him is here. he is called the father of "socio biology"


http://www.usnews.com/news/national/...e-bombers.html
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Skavau
05-09-2010, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by quranalim
an interview with him is here. he is called the father of "socio biology"


http://www.usnews.com/news/national/...e-bombers.html
Right, he's an evolutionist. So apparently, you are getting your evidence here from a scientist who accepts evolution.

At any rate, I've done a search and encountered no external sources for that quote of him on Adnan Oktar's website.
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quranalim
05-09-2010, 03:01 PM
here are more scientist disccusing this

http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/myrmidons.html

it seems maybe i was wrong, that quote is from somone called Hölldobler and Wilson 67
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Skavau
05-09-2010, 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by quranalim
here are more scientist disccusing this

http://www.wsu.edu/~delahoyd/myrmidons.html

it seems maybe i was wrong, that quote is from somone called Hölldobler and Wilson 67
I have found a Hölldobler, and he is a behavioural biologist who specialises in studying ants. The "Wilson 67" is the Edward O. Wilson of earlier. Both are evolutionary biologists and on the latest link you provided there is no evidence of what they allegedly said on Adnan Oktar's website, much less any context for it. I google the the sentence that you found to be so convincing and the only sources I can actually find on it are from Creationist websites. Typical.
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جوري
05-09-2010, 03:23 PM
The suicide of ants has nothing to do with evolution or no evolution.. anymore than tandem-biking has anything to do with evolution or no-evolution..
the term is a catch-all phrase.. yes adaptation is a provable science 'speciation' isn't!..
a simple way to counter any atheist is to ask them what came first the chicken or the egg.. most assuredly they'll say the egg.. then ask them to put an egg together for you using scientific technical terms coinciding with when conditions in life were favorable life and have them chart is on a nice time scale using the actual terms they deem were behind the process of evolution and have them do it for as many species as exist in the universe and they'll babble as they often do, because that is where their 'alleged science' turns into a belief and a funny what at that..

end of story..

:w:
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Woodrow
05-09-2010, 04:08 PM
Nuff said.

This thread has reached the point of becoming absurd.

:threadclo:
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