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S_87
05-12-2010, 06:35 PM
JEDDAH // Non-Muslims can never get the feel of what is it like to live in Mecca or Medina, Islam’s holy cities, as only Muslims are allowed to enter them. But this is about to change when the new "smart city" being built in Medina is completed.

Knowledge Economic City (KEC), Saudi Arabia’s first “smart city” – its buildings are all connected via voice, data and video links – will open its doors to non-Muslims as the city is planned to be a window on Islam to the world, one of the project owners said.



Sami Baroum, the managing director of Savola group, the largest private owner in the project, said that one-third of the new city, which will be developed on an area of 4.8 million square metres, will be outside of the forbidden area known as the Haram. It is expected to open in five years.

“For the first time, non-Muslims will be able to experience living within a Muslim holy city,” Mr Baroum said. “They will not live inside the Haram area, but they will be very close to it as they can see the lights of the Prophet Mohammed’s Mosque.”



The city, known as KEC, will be developed fully over 15 years at a cost of 30 billion riyals (Dh29bn) to serve both the tourist and commercial needs of Medina.

The Saudi King Abdullah, who donated the project’s land, worth one billion riyals, owns the majority stake in KEC through his King Abdullah Foundation for His Parents for Charitable Housing. All the revenues generated through property sales in KEC will go to the foundation to provide housing for poor Saudis.


According to design plans, KEC will accommodate up to 150,000 people in its residential areas, which will be supported by planned commercial complexes, hospitality facilities, a theme park and an Islamic museum.

“All surrounding countries are interested in building Islamic museums with large investments. Medina should be the city where non-Muslims come to understand the history of Islam instead,” Mr Baroum said.



The mosque areas in Mecca and Medina are sanctuaries for Muslims, according to Islamic law. The forbidden area of the Haram in both cities is well defined, but with expansion over the years many parts of the two cities are now outside the forbidden zones.

In Medina, the residential area surrounding the holy mosque is limited and has reached its accommodation capacity.

Mr Baroum said KEC allows Medina to grow outside of the central area close to the mosque and towards a new international airport that is under construction. He said he wants the airport to become a hub for Muslim travellers, particularly during Haj.



“Muslim flocks will come to Medina from all around the world once the airport is completed, and we want to make sure that non-Muslims as well can come to Medina and have a place to stay,” he said.

Saudi Arabia is investing heavily to develop a religious tourism sector as part of its efforts to move its economy away from oil, and for the first time, the kingdom hopes to attract non-Muslim visitors.



Mr Baroum said the KEC will also have a train station for a 450km high-speed railway linking the two holy cities to Jeddah.

“The new train station will be built in the one-third area located out of the Haram area, and non-Muslims can come to Medina by land to enjoy Islamic tourism attractions we will build there,” he said.

The KEC developers also plan for it to cater for the needs of the local population as well. Medina’s population stands at one million and the developers expect it to double in 20 years.



“Out of the additional one million people, we only want to attract 75,000 or 7.5 per cent to live in the KEC. The other half of KEC’s inhabitants should come from outside of Medina,” Mr Baroum said. He hopes to attract retirees as well as highly skilled workers.

As for its business and knowledge core, Mr Baroum said, the city is expected to be home to biomedical and information technology-related industries.



Developers hope the project will position Saudi Arabia and young Muslim entrepreneurs as internationally respected leaders in knowledge-based industries. They estimate that employers based there will create more than 20,000 jobs.

Employees of those industries would be able to live nearby.

“We want to make a reverse brain drain to attract back all the Muslim minds from the West to develop an Islamic knowledge-related economy in one of Islam’s holy cities,” Mr Baroum said.



“Attracting the right people ... is the difficult part,” he said. “Providing them with the right infrastructure to do it is the easy part.

“We already hired the world’s largest network solution company, Cisco Systems, to do the job.”

According to a press statement after the signing of a contract in 2008, Cisco said it would provide the network architecture for the city.

“We have non-Muslims eager to understand Islam, and we have 1.4 billion Muslims who need to visit Medina. I can’t think of a target market better than this,” Mr Baroum said.



When it was launched by King Abdullah and announced by the Saudi Arabian General Investment Authority in 2006, KEC, to the east of Medina, was the fourth of six economic cities designed to diversify the country away from oil and to provide jobs to a rapidly expanding population.

According to the investment authority, KEC will also have an Islamic civilisation studies centre designed to be a hub of intellectual activity, focused on collecting, developing and transmitting the knowledge, values and artwork of Islamic civilisation, as well as finding Islamic solutions to contemporary problems such as designing Islamic banking products.



http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs..../1135/general1
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aadil77
05-12-2010, 08:20 PM
why would they want to come to madina and then not be allowed into the haram
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Dagless
05-12-2010, 08:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
why would they want to come to madina and then not be allowed into the haram
Why would they want to come to Medina.
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Life_Is_Short
05-12-2010, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
why would they want to come to madina and then not be allowed into the haram
Maybe they'll "come to understand the history of Islam instead", as Mr Baroum said above.
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aadil77
05-12-2010, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Why would they want to come to Medina.
hmm yh, I can understand them wanting to come to makkah but not madina, did any previous prophets live in madinah?
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-12-2010, 08:52 PM
:sl:

I dont think its a good idea to let them in even if its not near Haram Area. You might never know what some fools might do,and probably a great time for CIA agents to creep in.
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Dagless
05-12-2010, 08:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Life_Is_Short
Maybe they'll "come to understand the history of Islam instead", as Mr Baroum said above.
They'll probably be separated from pilgrims and the main religious site/s so technically the city could be anywhere.
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Predator
05-12-2010, 09:17 PM
The filthy kaafirs should be kept out of the city at all cost . They would spare no time in getting out in their bikinis and beach suites to tan in the Sun in the area around Jannatul Baqi while taking photographs of the green dome of Prophet's mosque that Muzzies worship.

Yes, they can be that ridiculous, immature and disgusting. And ooh, who knows they might also want to have a booze party on one of those 10 high minarets ... you know, close to clouds, high up in illusions while being drunk
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Pygoscelis
05-12-2010, 09:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The filthy kaafirs
And you wonder why Islam has an ugly image...
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جوري
05-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Muslims have never wondered of Islam's image to the kuffar.. The one with the image is the one with the problem not vice versa-- I really wish you'd stop trying to bank on that point!

all the best
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aamirsaab
05-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Anyways, I guess it could help muslim and non-muslim understandings which is better in the long term. But it could back fire hugely....there are a lot of douchebags in the world.
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جوري
05-12-2010, 10:17 PM
I really don't want any kaffirs in those two spots.. are you allowed membership to Quill and dagger or timb of the sphinx at darmouth amongst many others.. the two holy sites are meant for a specific purpose they are not a tourist attractions as stated before there are plenty of spots opened to the kuffar to learn of Islam first hand.. why are these the only two spots suddenly of interest?

:w:
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Predator
05-12-2010, 10:43 PM
I dont think its a good idea to let them in even if its not near Haram Area. You might never know what some fools might do,and probably a great time for CIA agents to creep in.
Yeah No doubt first signs of the coming of the AntiChrist Dajjal , take a look at these Hadith which are spot on


Rasulullah (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said: "Dajjal will come but it will be prohibited and impossible for him to enter Madina. He will set up camp in a barren land outside Madina. One person who will be the best of persons will confront him by saying: "I bear witness that you are the very Dajjal about whom Rasulullah (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam) has informed us."
Dajjal will say to his followers, "If I kill this person and then revive him, you people will still doubt me?"

They will reply, "No."

He will then kill this person, (according to another narration he will split this person in two) and thereafter revive him. This person will say, "I am totally convinced more than ever before that you definitely are Dajjal."

Dajjal will attempt to kill this person again but his efforts will now be in vain.

(According to a hadith, after this incident, Dajjal will not be able to harm anyone.)

Hadhrat Anas (R.A.) says that Rasulullah (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "Dajjal will come and finally reach the outskirts of Madina. There will be three tremors. At that time, all the disbelievers and hypocrites will flee (from Madina).

In this way Madina Munawwarah will be purified of all the evil hypocrites.

Dajjal will be unable to enter enter Madina because there will be Malaikah(angels) guarding each of the seven entrances to Madina;



Source : http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/masdaj.html
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islamirama
05-13-2010, 12:12 AM
Each country has their own laws are regulations and requirements. If you want to come to America, you have to apply for visa, have to go through serious security checks even before you leave your country and what not. Other nations have their own regulations as well. No one is forbidden from going to Medinah and Makkah, everyone is allowed so long as you meet the entry requirements and paperwork. One of the requirements and paperwork is that showing you are a Muslim. If kuffars want to go there so badly then be ready to meet all the paper requirements and stop whining and being cry babies.
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CosmicPathos
05-13-2010, 12:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The filthy kaafirs should be kept out of the city at all cost . They would spare no time in getting out in their bikinis and beach suites to tan in the Sun in the area around Jannatul Baqi while taking photographs of the green dome of Prophet's mosque that Muzzies worship.

Yes, they can be that ridiculous, immature and disgusting. And ooh, who knows they might also want to have a booze party on one of those 10 high minarets ... you know, close to clouds, high up in illusions while being drunk
thats my quote, innit? :D glad that someone liked it
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S_87
05-13-2010, 10:15 AM
because its an economic city they are building so theyd be there for business/work

Very bad move on saudi part
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AabiruSabeel
05-13-2010, 11:04 AM
:sl:

Don't worry, Allah himself will keep the city of the Prophet clean. Rasulullah :saws1: said: "I was ordered to migrate to a town which will swallow (conquer) other towns and is called Yathrib and that is Madinah, and it turns out (bad) persons as a furnace removes the impurities of iron." (Bukhari: vol. 3, Book 30, No. 95)

There will be no town which Ad-Dajjal will not enter except Makkah and Madinah, and there will be no entrance (road) (of both Makkah and Madinah) but the angels will be standing in rows guarding it against him, and then Madinah will shake with its inhabitants thrice (i.e. three earth-quakes will take place) and Allah will expel all the nonbelievers and the hypocrites from it. (Bukhari: vol. 3, Book 30, No. 105)

A bedouin came to the Prophet :saws1: and gave a pledge of allegiance for embracing Islam. The next day he came with fever and said (to the Prophet :saws1:), “Please cancel my pledge (of embracing Islam and of emigrating to Madinah).” The Prophet :saws1: refused (that request) three times and said, “Madinah is like a furnace, it expels out the impurities (bad persons) and selects the good ones and makes them perfect.” (Bukhari: vol. 3, Book 30, No. 107)

When the Prophet went out for (the battle of) Uhud, some of his companions (hypocrites) returned (home). A party of the believers remarked that they would kill those (hypocrites) who had returned, but another party said that they would not kill them. So, this Ayah was revealed: “Then what is the matter with you that you are divided into two parties concerning the hypocrites.” (4.88) The Prophet said, “Madinah expels the bad persons from it, as fire expels the impurities of iron.” (Bukhari: vol. 3, Book 30, No. 108)
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KAding
05-13-2010, 01:04 PM
This kafirophobia is unsettling. It's almost as if people are talking about a disease here, not fellow human beings.
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Billal-A
05-13-2010, 01:16 PM
Agreed, CIA, Mossad, Mi5, KGB on prowl mode.
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Billal-A
05-13-2010, 01:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
This kafirophobia is unsettling. It's almost as if people are talking about a disease here, not fellow human beings.
1. Not really kafirophobia, more like security... As 'Umar said we can never trust the kuffaar.

2. It is the sharee'ah to keep non-Muslims out of the haramain.
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The_Prince
05-13-2010, 01:48 PM
in reply to kadding:

who can blame them? europe is doing so much to ban everything to do with Islam, is starting to become very hostile to it's Muslim immigrants, nationalistic groups are on the rise, and with ALL OF THIS, many of the people from these countries are going to be allowed to enter Islam's second holiest city???? so can you blame them for being angry and distrusting? i sure can.
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The_Prince
05-13-2010, 01:50 PM
without a doubt you will now have some people going in with undercover cameras to spy, and then release such videos into the media for anti-Islamic propaganda, this is a very stupid move.

on the bright side, the revenue made from property sales will be used for poor saudis, so that's good.
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UmmSqueakster
05-13-2010, 01:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The filthy kaafirs should be kept out of the city at all cost . They would spare no time in getting out in their bikinis and beach suites to tan in the Sun in the area around Jannatul Baqi while taking photographs of the green dome of Prophet's mosque that Muzzies worship.

Yes, they can be that ridiculous, immature and disgusting. And ooh, who knows they might also want to have a booze party on one of those 10 high minarets ... you know, close to clouds, high up in illusions while being drunk
Because of course, muslims are always on their best behavior while in the sacred cities, never push or shove, are never rude, never steal, never drink, never violated the haraams with violence...

...oh wait.
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ardianto
05-13-2010, 01:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
:sl:

I dont think its a good idea to let them in even if its not near Haram Area. You might never know what some fools might do,and probably a great time for CIA agents to creep in.
I don't think CIA agents or informers never went to Madinah and Makah.
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CosmicPathos
05-13-2010, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
Because of course, muslims are always on their best behavior while in the sacred cities, never push or shove, are never rude, never steal, never drink, never violated the haraams with violence...

...oh wait.
A sinner Muslim, excluding munafiq, is better than a kaafir because He believes in One Allah and Muhammad pbuh as His last messenger.
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Supreme
05-13-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm wondering what the appeal to non-Muslims would be. I don't know many non-Muslims who like to have their women treated as second class citizens, who like to have little in the way of regards of human rights, who like to live in the middle of a boiling, isolated desert, who like to live in run down cities where they are in a secluded minority. Actually, forget that. I actually don't know any kuffar who like that. The only appeal of Medina is the tomb of an Islamic prophet, and if you're into sightseeing, there's likely countless other places you can get your fixes that are both more tolerant and more beautiful. Other than that, I can't see why any non-Muslim (in their right mind) would choose to live there, so this plan is not likely to be very successful.
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aadil77
05-13-2010, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
I'm wondering what the appeal to non-Muslims would be. I don't know many non-Muslims who like to have their women treated as second class citizens, who like to have little in the way of regards of human rights, who like to live in the middle of a boiling, isolated desert, who like to live in run down cities where they are in a secluded minority. Actually, forget that. I actually don't know any kuffar who like that. The only appeal of Medina is the tomb of an Islamic prophet, and if you're into sightseeing, there's likely countless other places you can get your fixes that are both more tolerant and more beautiful. Other than that, I can't see why any non-Muslim (in their right mind) would choose to live there, so this plan is not likely to be very successful.
Even then you will not be allowed in to see the tomb of the prophet

And women are treated with alot more respect in muslim countries, much more than you get over here
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جوري
05-13-2010, 05:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Even then you will not be allowed in to see the tomb of the prophet

And women are treated with alot more respect in muslim countries, much more than you get over here
This is called baiting akhi!.. in the style of the wolf who couldn't reach the grapes after multiple futile attempts in the end deeming them sour and unpalatable anyway!
How can a person who has never been and forbidden from entrance speak of the fortress?

:w:
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Life_Is_Short
05-13-2010, 05:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Other than that, I can't see why any non-Muslim (in their right mind) would choose to live there, so this plan is not likely to be very successful.
I hope so. I don't want to see half-naked people on the outskirts of Madina. na'adubillah
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Supreme
05-13-2010, 06:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Even then you will not be allowed in to see the tomb of the prophet
Exactly, the appeal is completely nil.
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aadil77
05-13-2010, 06:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
This is called baiting akhi!.. in the style of the wolf who couldn't reach the grapes after multiple futile attempts in the end deeming them sour and unpalatable anyway!
How can a person who has never been and forbidden from entrance speak of the fortress?

:w:
:sl: sorry I don't get you sis :hmm:
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Predator
05-13-2010, 07:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Exactly, the appeal is completely nil.
Yeah , no marble statues of naked Cherubs in the Mosque as there are in the St peter's Church in the Vatican which gives the filthy appeal
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-13-2010, 07:22 PM
Lool no way will the non-muslims enter or even live in Madina! and why do they want to come there anyways? just to spoil Islam nothing else, them and their evil plans!
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Predator
05-13-2010, 07:28 PM
Lool no way will the non-muslims enter or even live in Madina! and why do they want to come there anyways? just to spoil Islam nothing else, them and their evil plans!
Yeah this "smart city" should have been built on the east coast near Dammam and not in a place where it has threatens the sanctity of the Holiest Places on earth
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-13-2010, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
Yeah this "smart city" should have been built on the east coast near Dammam and not in a place where it has threatens the sanctity of the Holiest Places on earth
Dubai should be sufficient for them. Most of Dubai is run by Jews anyways.
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Darth Ultor
05-13-2010, 07:42 PM
Do those of you who are against this really think non-Muslims and Westerners will just sully the place by being there? I'd understand if they would be allowed in the Mosque of the Prophet, which is very sacred to Muslims, but what is the problem with a few city streets? It's not like they'll go around promoting other faiths or walk around with shorts and revealing clothes.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-13-2010, 07:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Do those of you who are against this really think non-Muslims and Westerners will just sully the place by being there? I'd understand if they would be allowed in the Mosque of the Prophet, which is very sacred to Muslims, but what is the problem with a few city streets? It's not like they'll go around promoting other faiths or walk around with shorts and revealing clothes.
That is a big problem. Most likely, they will start off with just walking around the "few streets" then end up near masjid an Nabawi. They wont just start off promoting other faiths right away,they will be patient, like shaytan. Then after a while probably they will start handing out bibles etc.

May Allah prevent them from entering the haramain, and destroy their helpers.
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aadil77
05-13-2010, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
That is a big problem. Most likely, they will start off with just walking around the "few streets" then end up near masjid an Nabawi. They wont just start off promoting other faiths right away,they will be patient, like shaytan. Then after a while probably they will start handing out bibles etc.

May Allah prevent them from entering the haramain, and destroy their helpers.
LOL if anyone did get caught proselytising they would get deported
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-13-2010, 08:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
LOL if anyone did get caught proselytising they would get deported
lol I say, they should get executed on live tv in front of the whole world. :nervous:
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Dagless
05-13-2010, 08:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Do those of you who are against this really think non-Muslims and Westerners will just sully the place by being there? I'd understand if they would be allowed in the Mosque of the Prophet, which is very sacred to Muslims, but what is the problem with a few city streets? It's not like they'll go around promoting other faiths or walk around with shorts and revealing clothes.
They will walk around in shorts and revealing clothes though. The purpose of the place is worship but they'll be there for tourism. It will start small, maybe photo's only in certain areas, alcohol allowed in the bar area only, a small pool.. etc. but the boundaries will be pushed. They have to be pushed because to do well in tourism you have to attract tourists.
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Darth Ultor
05-13-2010, 09:01 PM
You do realize you're talking about Saudi Arabia here.That kind of conduct is prohibited by the laws of the state. If they violate the law, they answer to it.
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aadil77
05-13-2010, 09:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Do those of you who are against this really think non-Muslims and Westerners will just sully the place by being there? I'd understand if they would be allowed in the Mosque of the Prophet, which is very sacred to Muslims, but what is the problem with a few city streets? It's not like they'll go around promoting other faiths or walk around with shorts and revealing clothes.
Yes, you see when muslims visit those holy lands we don't go there for the sake of a fun holiday, its part of our pilgrimage so we don't want to be out of focus from Allah for even the slightest period, if I saw a non-muslim or muslim in those lands not dressing completely islamically i'd be pretty ticked off, mainly cause it would spread evil among the holy land and distract pilgrims. Basically any unislamic conduct in those areas would be extremely offensive to muslims.
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Pygoscelis
05-13-2010, 10:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The filthy kaafirs should be kept out of the city at all cost
format_quote Originally Posted by The Prince
who can blame them? europe is doing so much to ban everything to do with Islam, is starting to become very hostile to it's Muslim immigrants, nationalistic groups are on the rise, and with ALL OF THIS, many of the people from these countries are going to be allowed to enter Islam's second holiest city???? so can you blame them for being angry and distrusting? i sure can.
I understand your point and can actually agree with keeping non-muslims out of holy shrines and areas. But the above runs in both directions. When your fellow muslims refer to Kafir as "filth" can you not see the cycle being spun around once more? The bans on everything to do with Islam (as you put it) is in a large part based on the negative image created for Islam following 9/11 and other events. However unfair, the image is there and refering to kafirs as "filth" does no good for this PR problem.
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Pygoscelis
05-13-2010, 10:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohamed_Sadiq
Lool no way will the non-muslims enter or even live in Madina! and why do they want to come there anyways? just to spoil Islam nothing else, them and their evil plans!
I can't tell if this one is serious or parody lol. Us kafir and our evil plans. We'll eat your babies and steal your candy. Bwahahaha ;) *waggles eyebrows and twirls mustache mischievously*

Seriously though, I have to agree that there is zero reason for a non-muslim to go there. I think its more about the idea (of banning people) than the reality. True, I'll never go there, but still nobody likes to hear they are banned from somewhere just for being who they are.

I wonder, does the Vatican allow non-christians in?
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Darth Ultor
05-13-2010, 10:19 PM
If only you knew the power of the Dark Side of the Force.
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Life_Is_Short
05-13-2010, 10:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
If only you knew the power of the Dark Side of the Force.
We know the power of Allah (swt) and that's sufficient.
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Darth Ultor
05-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Please tell me you know what the joke is a reference to. Anyway, yes, it really is more the idea that non-Muslims are banned. I personally think tourists will behave properly. Yes, even in the Mosque of the Prophet and if the ban is ever lifted, in Masjid al-Haram in Makkah. Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages who don't respect Islam and would have the audacity to commit acts in violation of Islam in its most sacred places.
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aadil77
05-13-2010, 11:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Please tell me you know what the joke is a reference to. Anyway, yes, it really is more the idea that non-Muslims are banned. I personally think tourists will behave properly. Yes, even in the Mosque of the Prophet and if the ban is ever lifted, in Masjid al-Haram in Makkah. Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages who don't respect Islam and would have the audacity to commit acts in violation of Islam in its most sacred places.
;D

honestly I think non-muslims will struggle to practice the modest clothing laws,
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quranalim
05-13-2010, 11:12 PM
Source: http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs..../1135/general1

The prophet said:

The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, "Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula [Sahih Bukhari 4:52:288]
I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Sahih Muslim 19:4366
Its our fault for letting this happen:

If anyone introduces an innovation, he will be responsible for it. If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people.

Abu Dawud 39:4515
non muslims can live in any muslim country except arabian peninsula, this is agreed upon by the scholars of hadith

Why we muslims are a disgrace: http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/S...Option=FatwaId
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quranalim
05-13-2010, 11:15 PM
sorry. poll maent to say

"Do you agree with the saudi kings decision to let non-muslims live in medina"
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-13-2010, 11:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
;D

honestly I think non-muslims will struggle to practice the modest clothing laws,
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/28/nor...3A+Top+Stories)
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-13-2010, 11:18 PM
There is already a thread about that.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...rt-medina.html

Thread should be closed.
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quranalim
05-13-2010, 11:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
There is already a thread about that.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...rt-medina.html

Thread should be closed.
didnt know . thanks for your time brother/sister
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quranalim
05-13-2010, 11:28 PM
The prophet said:

The Prophet on his death-bed, gave three orders saying, "Expel the pagans from the Arabian Peninsula [Sahih Bukhari 4:52:288]
I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.
Sahih Muslim 19:4366
Its our fault for letting this happen:

If anyone introduces an innovation, he will be responsible for it. If anyone introduces an innovation or gives shelter to a man who introduces an innovation (in religion), he is cursed by Allah, by His angels, and by all the people.

Abu Dawud 39:4515
non muslims can live in any muslim country except arabian peninsula, this is agreed upon by the scholars of hadith
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Life_Is_Short
05-13-2010, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages who don't respect Islam and would have the audacity to commit acts in violation of Islam in its most sacred places.
Let's examine that shall we?

What do the UAE's laws say about indecent exposure?

The law does not specify what indecent exposure is, but there is a minimum that should not be exceeded.For example, it is forbidden to go out in underwear whether on the streets, in hotels or public places.Clothes should not be sexually provocative, according to the standards of the common man.
There were 82 cases filed for public indecency in 2009 in Dubai. If non-muslims can't follow these simple rules in Dubai then i don't think they can follow them anywhere.
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Skavau
05-13-2010, 11:48 PM
Life Is Short, you live in the UK - do you seriously view 'Non-Muslims' as one and as some sort of collective? The way you suggest that Non-Muslims are incapable of following rules of decency suggests you do.
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سيف الله
05-14-2010, 01:03 AM
Salaam

Anyways, I guess it could help muslim and non-muslim understandings which is better in the long term. But it could back fire hugely....there are a lot of douchebags in the world.
This is a seriously seriously bad idea. I agree with the idea of diversification into other areas since the oil will run out, and I agree with the idea of building bridges, I dont think anybody would disagree with that but is this the best way to do it?:(

I mean look at Dubai, do we want to turn two of our holiest cities into a cheap tourist site? Where believers are to be gawked at by the curious? hmmmmm :hmm:

They will walk around in shorts and revealing clothes though. The purpose of the place is worship but they'll be there for tourism. It will start small, maybe photo's only in certain areas, alcohol allowed in the bar area only, a small pool.. etc. but the boundaries will be pushed. They have to be pushed because to do well in tourism you have to attract tourists.
Your right about that, commericialism and the desire to make ever increasing profits could have potentialy damaging effects on the religious nature of the two cities. Like you say tourists will demand more and more and businesses will have to give in if they are going to maintain trade. (eg. Dubai)

Please tell me you know what the joke is a reference to. Anyway, yes, it really is more the idea that non-Muslims are banned. I personally think tourists will behave properly. Yes, even in the Mosque of the Prophet and if the ban is ever lifted, in Masjid al-Haram in Makkah. Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages who don't respect Islam and would have the audacity to commit acts in violation of Islam in its most sacred places.
You'd be surprised, but seriously you will but plenty of others wont, probably through no fault of their own. I think it would be espeically difficult for secular minded people (culture clash etc etc). I dont see why the two cities would hold much interest to non muslims anyway.

And you wonder why Islam has an ugly image...
To a (certain type of) westerner the only good Muslim is somebody whos muslim in name only, with this in mind their is little that can be done to improve the image. Though I agree the earlier comment was uncalled for.

I wonder, does the Vatican allow non-christians in?
So what if they do? Thats the Vaticans decision, were different. If they changed their mind and decided not to allow non Catholics in thats their business.

do you seriously view 'Non-Muslims' as one and as some sort of collective? The way you suggest that Non-Muslims are incapable of following rules of decency suggests you do.
You ever seen Glasgow on a Friday night? Eye opening to say the least, but I agree it would depend on the non muslim.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 02:08 AM
I disagree. Even nonbelievers will never desecrate a holy site and will give it its due respect.
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The_Prince
05-14-2010, 02:17 AM
well we will all just have to wait and see how it goes, who knows, it might never happen, these plans are going to take several years to implement, and by then this plan might be thrown out the window.
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Pygoscelis
05-14-2010, 02:36 AM
Saying non-muslims are out to desecrate muslim holy mosques is like saying muslims are terrorists. Its a completely unfair generalization, reactionary, hateful, and will only encourage the cycle of conflict to spin faster.
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TrueStranger
05-14-2010, 04:52 AM
The Saud Family is pushing it.

Europe is choking the Muslim brothers and sisters in Europe and they want to allow kuffars to live in medinah?
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Karina
05-14-2010, 09:34 AM
Tit for tat, tit for tat. It's so tiresome.

If everyone was a little more warm and welcoming to each other we may, one day, have a little more respect for each other and be able to live side-by-side without whinging like children.
And that means all of us.

ONE DAY......... * sigh *
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 10:59 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
I can't tell if this one is serious or parody lol. Us kafir and our evil plans. We'll eat your babies and steal your candy. Bwahahaha ;) *waggles eyebrows and twirls mustache mischievously*

Seriously though, I have to agree that there is zero reason for a non-muslim to go there. I think its more about the idea (of banning people) than the reality. True, I'll never go there, but still nobody likes to hear they are banned from somewhere just for being who they are.

I wonder, does the Vatican allow non-christians in?
I have no idea about the vatican, and isn't the vatican in Rome and there are Muslims that live in that city, but you can't compare Islamic sites to christian places such as the Vatican, and also No Muslim will want to go to the Vatican no point going there and nothing to see or experience and its irrelevant.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 11:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohamed_Sadiq
I have no idea about the vatican, and isn't the vatican in Rome and there are Muslims that live in that city, but you can't compare Islamic sites to christian places such as the Vatican, and also No Muslim will want to go to the Vatican no point going there and nothing to see or experience and its irrelevant.
Did the Muslim community elect you as their personal representative? People of all faiths go to the Vatican all the time, including Muslims. Why, because people like to travel.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 01:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Did the Muslim community elect you as their personal representative? People of all faiths go to the Vatican all the time, including Muslims. Why, because people like to travel.

All Muslims are representatives for Islam.
Islam is a religion of unity= 1 voice

Only a insane Muslim would go to the vatican. Afcourse people like to travel so do I but wats to see about the vatican, its no place of intrest for the Muslims there is nothing to see forget the pope even the building is not worth seeing. People want to travel to see the environment and people, but not to go travel to temples, like places that other people go to worship cause it's got nothing to do with my religion!! :shade:

And i don't care if people of different faith that go to the vaticans, because I know for a fact that Muslims are not allowed to go to that satan place.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 02:06 PM
I travel to see other cultures and natural sites, but I also travel for the countries' history.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 02:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
I travel to see other cultures and natural sites, but I also travel for the countries' history.
You should travel to Palestine one day its has loads of history and you should visit their capital city jerusalem you can explore about palestinian people and customs, but unfortunatly you can't due to Jewish invasion, but don't worry Palestine will be liberated one day.
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Supreme
05-14-2010, 04:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Mohamed_Sadiq
All Muslims are representatives for Islam.
Islam is a religion of unity= 1 voice

Only a insane Muslim would go to the vatican. Afcourse people like to travel so do I but wats to see about the vatican, its no place of intrest for the Muslims there is nothing to see forget the pope even the building is not worth seeing. People want to travel to see the environment and people, but not to go travel to temples, like places that other people go to worship cause it's got nothing to do with my religion!! :shade:

And i don't care if people of different faith that go to the vaticans, because I know for a fact that Muslims are not allowed to go to that satan place.
Not many things make me laugh.


But this did.
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Asiyah3
05-14-2010, 06:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by KAding
This kafirophobia is unsettling. It's almost as if people are talking about a disease here, not fellow human beings.
There is no reason for non-muslims to be in Medina.
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Asiyah3
05-14-2010, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages who don't respect Islam and would have the audacity to commit acts in violation of Islam in its most sacred places.
What can you expect from folks who mock and ridicule their own 'God'...

format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
I disagree. Even nonbelievers will never desecrate a holy site and will give it its due respect.
Yeah, just as they did with our Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him), eh.. I'm not saying that all non-muslims are hateful and immature, but the two holy sites aren't for some tourist amusement.
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Predator
05-14-2010, 07:39 PM
Contrary to popular belief, non-Muslims are not a bunch if unruly drunk savages
Actually they are a bunch of savages even amongst themselves and your own cult of racist jews are the worst of the lot

WOODROW: Removed video link. Language used in it is not suitable for a general audience
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Racist? Ha! That's a laugh, pal. Look at you, calling non-Muslims "filthy kaafirs" and this Antisemitic comment here really proves that you are the racist.
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marwen
05-14-2010, 08:44 PM
It is permissible for kuffaar to enter Madeenah for the purposes of trade, without staying there. They should be given enough time (to complete their business) then they should be told to leave. Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

It is permissible for them to enter the Hijaaz for the purpose of trade, because the Christians used to trade with Madeenah at the time of ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him). An old Christian man came to him in Madeenah and said: “I am an old Christian man and your agent has taken the tithe from me twice.” ‘Umar said: “I am an old monotheist (haneef) man,” and ‘Umar wrote to the agent and said: “Only take the tithe once in a year, and do not allow them to stay for more than three days.” This is what was narrated from ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) and they should leave after that. Al-Qaadi said: Four days is the limit after which a traveller must offer prayers in full.

Al-Mughni, 9/286.


Is it permissible for a non-Muslim to enter Madeenah?
Now, folks ! we should put an end to this non-sense : Non-muslims are not allowed to live in madeenah, they can just visit it for the purposes of trade, without staying there. They should be given enough time (to complete their business) then they should be told to leave.

That's our religion. Nothing is personal, and no one has the right to tell us how to practice Islam.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-14-2010, 08:47 PM
:sl:

^^ I dont think they want to come to madinah to do trade or just to stay for three days. They are probably trying to make it a tourist hotspot, which wont happen inshaAllah.
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marwen
05-14-2010, 08:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by marwen
Now, folks ! we should put an end to this non-sense : Non-muslims are not allowed to live in madeenah, they can just visit it for the purposes of trade, without staying there. They should be given enough time (to complete their business) then they should be told to leave.

That's our religion. Nothing is personal, and no one has the right to tell us how to practice Islam.
P.S : And I don't care about what the Saoudi King says.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 08:51 PM
The Saudi King is a lousy tyrant. His word means nothing.
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Predator
05-14-2010, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Racist? Ha! That's a laugh, pal. Look at you, calling non-Muslims "filthy kaafirs" and this Antisemitic comment here really proves that you are the racist.
lol , are u mentally stable ? The word kaafir means disbeliever (irrespective of race , color nation, etc )
and The kaafirs who want to come out in their bikinis and beach suites and take taking photographs of the of Prophet's mosque and corrupt the sanctity of the place and spread evil and distract pilgrims are nothing but unwanted and un-called for filth in the Holy land .
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 09:04 PM
I know what Kafir means, I did my research. I just fail to see what the problem is. I just think you have a very negative and narrow-minded view of non-Muslims, and it's that attitude that makes many non-Muslims view Islam negatively when it is a beautiful faith. The country has laws, and if the Saudi government enforces it like they do the rest of their laws, there will not be a problem. Even tourists are expected to dress conservatively in KSA. And a non-Muslim would have to be insane to even think of promoting another religion there. Wearing bikinis and being drunk in public (let alone even bring alcohol into the country), you can be prosecuted in Saudi Arabia for that.
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UmmSqueakster
05-14-2010, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
lol , are u mentally stable ? The word kaafir means disbeliever (irrespective of race , color nation, etc )
and The kaafirs who want to come out in their bikinis and beach suites and take taking photographs of the of Prophet's mosque and corrupt the sanctity of the place and spread evil and distract pilgrims are nothing but unwanted and un-called for filth in the Holy land .
Why do you insist on exaggerating everything to the nth degree? It does nothing to bolster your argument.

So all 4.5 billion non muslims are filthy savages are they? Including my parents, grandparents, brother and sister? How kind of you to judge them without knowing.

And honestly, really, do you think that anywhere in Saudi Arabia (outside of expat compounds perhaps) people would be seen outside wearing bathing suits?

The gaps in these illogical conclusions are just astounding.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 09:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Not many things make me laugh.


But this did.
I am glad i made you laugh........
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Supreme
05-14-2010, 09:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
Why do you insist on exaggerating everything to the nth degree? It does nothing to bolster your argument.

So all 4.5 billion non muslims are filthy savages are they? Including my parents, grandparents, brother and sister? How kind of you to judge them without knowing.

And honestly, really, do you think that anywhere in Saudi Arabia (outside of expat compounds perhaps) people would be seen outside wearing bathing suits?

The gaps in these illogical conclusions are just astounding.
Please! Don't let facts get in the way of his so-called arguments!


The Saudi King is a lousy tyrant. His word means nothing.
I agree. The whole Saudi monarchy is the political equivalent of a bad joke.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 09:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster
Why do you insist on exaggerating everything to the nth degree? It does nothing to bolster your argument.

So all 4.5 billion non muslims are filthy savages are they? Including my parents, grandparents, brother and sister? How kind of you to judge them without knowing.

And honestly, really, do you think that anywhere in Saudi Arabia (outside of expat compounds perhaps) people would be seen outside wearing bathing suits?

The gaps in these illogical conclusions are just astounding.
I think you misunderstood him he didn't mean they are filthy personally but they will bring fitnah and filth to the holy site for instance:
1. Nudity
2. Adultery
3.Alcohol
because the non-muslims are not aware of what Muslims consider whats right or wrong. Also non-muslims are not savages or filthy but their actions are considered to be filthy to the Muslims beliefs. Your relatives are not filthy or savages and sorry if you got offended by the brother, but us Muslims should help eachother to make people understand.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 10:08 PM
You should do it in a reasonable manner, no offense, because the way Airforce said it sounded angry and bigoted. Nudity will never happen in any city street of any country. Even secular ones.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 10:19 PM
So Boaz will you consider going to Palestine for the list of countries that you want visit? just curious

I would love to go to Palestine but unfortunately the situation that is occuring there is not allowing me
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Predator
05-14-2010, 10:22 PM

So all 4.5 billion non muslims are filthy savages are they?
No , I was referring to those who want to come out Half nude ,drunk and take pictures of the Prophet's mosques as the filthy savages .
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Asiyah3
05-14-2010, 10:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Nudity will never happen in any city street of any country. Even secular ones.
That's not true. I've read many cases about naked people on streets. I just put the word 'naked' in the search engine of a newspaper and well there's quite a series of results... And now there's this new fashion 'nakedness is natural' 'this is 21th century!' blaa blaa.
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Supreme
05-14-2010, 10:43 PM
You should do it in a reasonable manner, no offense, because the way Airforce said it sounded angry and bigoted. Nudity will never happen in any city street of any country. Even secular ones.
Nudity fully depends on the society and culture. The Middle Eastern culture holds that the human body (and the female body in particular) is inherently sexual and therefore must be covered up and not be seen. The West asserts that the only sexualized features of the body are the breasts and genitals, and so long as they are covered up, it is ok. I think when Muslims here refer to nakedness, they mean the lesser sexualized features of the body, such as the arms and legs, being uncovered.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-14-2010, 10:46 PM
Its not because of Middle East "culture". Islam teaches us to cover our privates and has limits on what to wear for men and women.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 10:47 PM
Well the state has laws that everyone, even foreigners must abide by. The only places in Saudi Arabia where Saudi, or Sharia law doesn't apply is in foreign embassies.
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Mohamed_Sadiq
05-14-2010, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Well the state has laws that everyone, even foreigners must abide by. The only places in Saudi Arabia where Saudi, or Sharia law doesn't apply is in foreign embassies.
Lool, but if they are caught in the garden half naked then straight to prison ahahhahaha looks like those people will have to stay indoors in their embassies and they won't have fun for (accordance to what they call fun) so wats the point for them to come to sharia law countries anyways just let them strip in rio de jeniro or kingston it's more easier for them anyways.
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Darth Ultor
05-14-2010, 11:19 PM
Well, if they act like dumbasses, thenlet them face the Saudi courts.
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Ramadhan
05-15-2010, 03:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Well, if they act like dumbasses, thenlet them face the Saudi courts.
And if they are to face the saudi courts, the western countries would be undoubtedly crying foul, accusing the saudi for not respecting the human rights of those filthy people.
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Woodrow
05-15-2010, 04:31 AM
Nearly if not all faiths have at least one area of sanctuary within their churches, temples, shrines etcd. in which no person not of that faith is permitted to enter. Islam has only one alter and only one holy place of worship. This is the Ka'abah and the surrounding regions of Makkah and Medinah. a very small sanctuary for such a large religion. We do not make a fuss about being forbidden to enter into the sanctuary of other faiths, what is the big fuss if we refuse to let non-believers into the only sanctuary we have?

On another note, who ever gave the King of Saud poweri to allow non-Muslims into the Two Holy cities? He has no such authority to do such. In the past it was permitted for non-Muslims to complete any business transactions dealing with business within the cities but it has been a very long time since any non-Muslims had any business contracts that needed to be completed within Makkah or Medinah.
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Supreme
05-15-2010, 11:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Nearly if not all faiths have at least one area of sanctuary within their churches, temples, shrines etcd. in which no person not of that faith is permitted to enter. Islam has only one alter and only one holy place of worship. This is the Ka'abah and the surrounding regions of Makkah and Medinah. a very small sanctuary for such a large religion. We do not make a fuss about being forbidden to enter into the sanctuary of other faiths, what is the big fuss if we refuse to let non-believers into the only sanctuary we have?

On another note, who ever gave the King of Saud poweri to allow non-Muslims into the Two Holy cities? He has no such authority to do such. In the past it was permitted for non-Muslims to complete any business transactions dealing with business within the cities but it has been a very long time since any non-Muslims had any business contracts that needed to be completed within Makkah or Medinah.
I agree with this post 100%. It's an Islamic holy site, and what interest would non-Muslims have in visiting it? I also agree that the tyrannical joke that is the Saudi king is pushing the boundaries on this one Just another controversial decision from his laughable dictatorship, no doubt.
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Darth Ultor
05-15-2010, 12:55 PM
Isn't there a parliament or a religious council in KSA? The King can just do whatever the hell he wants?
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Woodrow
05-15-2010, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Boaz
Isn't there a parliament or a religious council in KSA? The King can just do whatever the hell he wants?
The Saud family is a Monarchy. The fairness of the rule, is limited to the fairness of the controlling family member.

Prior to the Saud rule the Arabian Peninsula was a series of principalities. The conquest of the principalities began in 1744 with the rise of the Saud family. The KSA was essentially the conquests of King Ibn Saud, and began with his conquest of Riyadh in 1902, the conquest of Nejd in 1906, and the conquest of Hijaz in 1924-1925 the 2 principalities were merged in 1932 by king Saud forming the KSA which then annexed the Asir region.

The Saud family did introduce a "Constitution" in 1992 so technically it is no longer a totalitarian monarchy. At least on paper. In practice ????????
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جوري
05-15-2010, 04:33 PM
I had a dream once a while ago about Mecca being desecrated .. on the floors of the holy mosque was the American flag with their eagle and the Saudi flag meant for people to step on it with their feet (in other words step on the name of Allah swt and the prophet).. I was very disturbed by that dream and now I see the meaning of it :(

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. I really hope this doesn't come to pass.. the Saudi family are no spokes people for Muslims!

:w:
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Woodrow
05-15-2010, 05:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
I had a dream once a while ago about Mecca being desecrated .. on the floors of the holy mosque was the American flag with their eagle and the Saudi flag meant for people to step on it with their feet (in other words step on the name of Allah swt and the prophet).. I was very disturbed by that dream and now I see the meaning of it :(

la 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. I really hope this doesn't come to pass.. the Saudi family are no spokes people for Muslims!

:w:
They not only are not the spokes people for Muslims I do not believe they can even be considered spokes people for Arabs.

On a side note I personally know one member of the "Royal" family and he does not fit my thoughts of most of the family and is a very fine, pious Muslim. Sadly, I doubt there is any chance he will ever have any "power".
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UmmSqueakster
05-17-2010, 03:31 PM
I seem to remember reading a story about a non muslim taxi driver who got in trouble because he drove his taxi inside the haram area of Medina - meaning, that the city of Medina as a whole is non off limits to non muslims, but merely the haram area.

According to Sh. Wikipedia:

Like Mecca, the city of Medina only permits Muslims to enter, although the haram (area closed to non-Muslims) of Medina is much smaller than that of Mecca, with the result that many facilities on the outskirts of Medina are open to non-Muslims, whereas in Mecca the area closed to non-Muslims extends well beyond the limits of the built-up area.
According to wikitravel:

WARNING: Non-Muslims are strictly prohibited from entering Central Medina. The penalty is deportation from the country. Documentation will be checked upon entry and anyone not showing proof of being Muslim will be denied entry. However, many parts of the city, notably the outksirts and the Medina Airport, are open to all.

Shock, horror, there are non muslims in medina, and they're not cavorting around in bikinis and the world in fact has not ended.
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جوري
05-17-2010, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by UmmSqueakster


Shock, horror, there are non muslims in medina, and they're not cavorting around in bikinis and the world in fact has not ended.
I have lived both in Riyadh and Jeddah and can assure you that foreigners in bikinis used to kick the men out of the compound where we lived turned off the light and made the pool off-limits to anyone who wanted it but them in their usual 'sense of entitlement' moments .. Now, no one is bothered by foreigners there doing their thing I do recommend you read 'confessions of an economic hit-man' as it will show you that parading in bikinis isn't all there is to foreign presence in KSA.. we are not protesting that they should be there, because plenty of them are there doing their thing. We are protesting that they should enter into the holy cities, for plenty of reasons, and I believe my number one would be the struggle many Muslims have to go there to fulfill their obligations as is, if this is made into a tourist spot to respecting or disrespecting non-Muslims.

:w:
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سيف الله
05-17-2010, 03:43 PM
Salaam

I would be wary about using wiki as a reliable source.

I think the only real reason non muslim are allowed in the two cities is for work purposes only, but the point is, its a holy site, for Muslims, a sanctuary so to speak for Muslims. We dont want it to become a tourist site.
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SMA89
05-17-2010, 03:45 PM
Yes anyone can live anywhere. This is a free world for the human beings.
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جوري
05-17-2010, 04:00 PM
No you can't live anywhere.. You need to have regard for laws and the properties of others. You can't for instance live in the white house because it is a free world- it is an unrealistic ridiculous view of someone who hasn't matured to grasp how things work!

all the best
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SMA89
05-17-2010, 06:53 PM
yup anyone can live in medina.. no rule in Islam saying that we cant. Islam says we can share with non muslims so nothing wrong with this.

All the best. lol
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-17-2010, 08:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
Yes anyone can live anywhere. This is a free world for the human beings.
Brother, looks like you are infected with democracy virus. There is no such thing as free world in Islam. Everything has limits and rules. Only animals live in a "free world". I dont care if its for work purposes or not. They should be 500 miles away from the haramain. Their presence is a fitnah.
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SMA89
05-18-2010, 02:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
Brother, looks like you are infected with democracy virus. There is no such thing as free world in Islam. Everything has limits and rules. Only animals live in a "free world". I dont care if its for work purposes or not. They should be 500 miles away from the haramain. Their presence is a fitnah.
This is wrong. Allah gave us freewill, we have the right to choose whatever we want whether its good or bad. Non-muslims are still human beings Allah created so how can you neglect them from this world? I live life without any limits, which gives me a PEACE of mind. Isnt Islam the religion of PEACE?
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ardianto
05-18-2010, 03:13 AM
I don't need to tell anyone how is my respect to non-muslims people. But in this case, I totally disagree with Saudi King decision to allow non-muslims live in Madinah. There are many Islamic sites where non-muslims can visit those. But let Makah and Madinah are special for Muslims only.
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Dagless
05-18-2010, 03:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
This is wrong. Allah gave us freewill, we have the right to choose whatever we want whether its good or bad. Non-muslims are still human beings Allah created so how can you neglect them from this world? I live life without any limits, which gives me a PEACE of mind. Isnt Islam the religion of PEACE?
How is this neglecting them from the world? Its only 2 cities. I also mentioned how other countries use visa's and discriminate based on other attributes... but it looks like my post has been deleted :S
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ardianto
05-18-2010, 03:39 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
Their presence is a fitnah.
their presence is not fitnah, as long as they do not do something wrong.


P.S. I don't tlak about their presence in Makah and Madinah.
Reply

ardianto
05-18-2010, 03:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
This is wrong. Allah gave us freewill, we have the right to choose whatever we want whether its good or bad. Non-muslims are still human beings Allah created so how can you neglect them from this world? I live life without any limits, which gives me a PEACE of mind. Isnt Islam the religion of PEACE?
There is special rule about Makah and Madinah. These are only two cities.

How many cities in Muslim countries where non-muslims can live there ?.
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 04:01 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,


I am not here to jufge the king family of saudia, but I think there are the evil people.

About baning people from the medina, I do not understant that decision, its Allah's earth.

And in time of the prophete mohamed SWS all people lived together in Medina.

I never understand such stupid decision.

Assalam aleykoum.

You might want to back that up with hadiths.

Imam Malik's Muwatta Chapter No: 45
Hadith no: 18
Narrated / Authority Of: Ibn Shihab
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula." Malik said that Ibn Shihab said, ''Umar ibn al-Khattab searched for information about that until he was absolutely convinced that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had said, 'Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian Peninsula,' and he therefore expelled the jews from Khaybar."

Imam Malik's Muwatta Chapter No: 4
Hadith no: 17
Narrated / Authority Of: Ismail ibn Abi Hakim
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ismail ibn Abi Hakim that he heard Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz say, "One of the last things that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said was, 'May Allah fight the jews and the christians. They took the graves of their Prophets as places of prostration . Two deens shall not co-exist in the land of the Arabs.' "


About baning people from the medina, I do not understant that decision, its Allah's earth.
As it is Allah's earth then it is up to Allah SWT to decide who can live in where.
And Allah SWT in the Qur'an says that no muslim shall approach the haram in Makkah.
And prophet Muhammad SAW with permission from Allah SWT has made Madina a haram:

Imam Malik's Muwatta Chapter No: 4
Hadith no: 10
Narrated / Authority Of: Anas bin Malik
Yahya related to me from Malik from Amr, the mawla of al-Muttalib from Anas ibn Malik that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, saw Uhud and said, "This is a mountain which loves us and we love it. O Allah! Ibrahim made Makka Haram, and I will make what is between the two tracts of black stones (in Madina) a Haram."
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 04:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
yup anyone can live in medina.. no rule in Islam saying that we cant. Islam says we can share with non muslims so nothing wrong with this.

All the best. lol

Conviction without proper knowledge is dangerous.
You might want to read more of The Qur'an and Ahadiths.
Reply

SMA89
05-18-2010, 04:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Conviction without proper knowledge is dangerous.
You might want to read more of The Qur'an and Ahadiths.
Noooooooooooo
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 04:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
Noooooooooooo
Honestly, this is a better response than I'd expected.
Btw, are you sure you did not miss one "o" or two there?
Reply

shuraimfan4lyf
05-18-2010, 05:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
This is wrong. Allah gave us freewill, we have the right to choose whatever we want whether its good or bad. Non-muslims are still human beings Allah created so how can you neglect them from this world? I live life without any limits, which gives me a PEACE of mind. Isnt Islam the religion of PEACE?
This is right, and we are to judge by what was stated in the Quran and hadiths. They are not supposed to be near masjid al haram or in the arabian peninsula like the hadiths the brother quoted.

format_quote Originally Posted by SMA89
Noooooooooooo
Seriously, you need to open up your eyes and read what you are saying. That sounds like a childish answer.
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 06:04 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
This is right, and we are to judge by what was stated in the Quran and hadiths. They are not supposed to be near masjid al haram or in the arabian peninsula like the hadiths the sister quoted.
:sl:

I am a brother

:shade:
Reply

shuraimfan4lyf
05-18-2010, 06:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
:sl:

I am a brother

:shade:
:wa: oopz lol. Sorry about that brother..
Reply

Supreme
05-18-2010, 09:04 AM
This is a genuine question: Muslims see Jerusalem as incredibly holy too. If there was an Islamic caliphate in control of the city, would non-Muslims be expelled from Jerusalem, despite there being holy sites in the city?
Reply

ardianto
05-18-2010, 09:18 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
This is a genuine question: Muslims see Jerusalem as incredibly holy too. If there was an Islamic caliphate in control of the city, would non-Muslims be expelled from Jerusalem, despite there being holy sites in the city?
Cities that forbidden for non-Muslims are Makah and Madinah only. Non-Muslims can live in other cities, including Jerusalem.
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 09:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
This is a genuine question: Muslims see Jerusalem as incredibly holy too. If there was an Islamic caliphate in control of the city, would non-Muslims be expelled from Jerusalem, despite there being holy sites in the city?
I am not sure of the correct answer, but my answer would be no.

The Qur'an only apply restrictions to Makkah, and the hadiths to Makkah and Madinah.
Hadith showed that prior to his death, prophet SAW indicated that hejaz should be free from non-muslims.
Jerusalem is not in hejaz.
During Umar r.a. caliphate, jews were expelled from lands nearby Madina after given fair compensation.

Imam Malik's Muwatta Chapter No: 45
Hadith no: 19
Narrated / Authority Of:
Malik said, ''Umar ibn al-Khattab expelled the jews from Najran (a jewish settlement in the Yemen) and Fadak (a jewish settlement thirty miles from Madina). When the jews of Khaybar left, they did not take any fruit or land. The jews of Fadak took half the fruit and half the land, because the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had made a settlement with them for that. So Umar entrusted to them the value in gold, silver, camels, ropes and saddle bags of half the fruit and half the land, and handed the value over to them and expelled them."

But as you can see, non-muslims now work and live all over hejaz, with the exception of Makkah and Madina
Reply

Güven
05-18-2010, 09:58 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
This is a genuine question: Muslims see Jerusalem as incredibly holy too. If there was an Islamic caliphate in control of the city, would non-Muslims be expelled from Jerusalem, despite there being holy sites in the city?
When Salah al-din conquered Jerusalem, were all the non-muslims expelled from there?
Reply

Supreme
05-18-2010, 03:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Güven
When Salah al-din conquered Jerusalem, were all the non-muslims expelled from there?
No. But that was in the past; I'm asking whether today's generation of Muslims do it. As anticipated, the Muslims that have responded have said they wouldn't.
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 03:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
No. But that was in the past; I'm asking whether today's generation of Muslims do it. As anticipated, the Muslims that have responded have said they wouldn't.
When Jerusalem is 'conquered' by the Muslims which btw is a poor choice of word because it always belonged to the believers, then there won't be Muslim/Christian/Jew divide (that is in fact the Muslim view if you want it) the war at the end is said to be a war between good and evil, and when Jesus (p) descends (again the Islamic view) he will reunite all under the true religion, the one that has always been!.. so pious Jews and christians and Muslims will be united as one perhaps not as many as those who will deny him and follow the anti-christ but it is said that the meek shall inherit the earth.. so the anti-christ and his army will be as nothing and Jerusalem once again will belong to the righteous!

all the best
Reply

Gabriel Ibn Yus
05-18-2010, 04:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
When Jerusalem is 'conquered' by the Muslims which btw is a poor choice of word because it always belonged to the believers, then there won't be Muslim/Christian/Jew divide (that is in fact the Muslim view if you want it) the war at the end is said to be a war between good and evil, and when Jesus (p) descends (again the Islamic view) he will reunite all under the true religion, the one that has always been!.. so pious Jews and christians and Muslims will be united as one perhaps not as many as those who will deny him and follow the anti-christ but it is said that the meek shall inherit the earth.. so the anti-christ and his army will be as nothing and Jerusalem once again will belong to the righteous!

all the best
100% true. What a beautiful answer. May it happen in our day and Jerusalem would be united under the power of belief.
Reply

Gabriel Ibn Yus
05-18-2010, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,


I do not understand people ?

How can we forbid somebody to go in part of the world ?

Jews, Christains, muslims are all from our father Abraham.

The point in common is one god, 3 holy books, 3 big prophetes.

We have to learn from each other, we have to break walls between us.

Walls between the 3 legislations ( not 3 religions ) 3 ways to worship god have been built by the Devil for centuries.

Nobody can imagine the power of the devil to send people to hell, or to show them that what they are doing is good and told by god.

I will never understimate his inteligence, I am always trying to think how the devil is doing to kurupt the religion of god.

I am always reading the quran to try to find out, I also read the bible because the bible is confirmed by the Quran.

Can you imagine if we forbide people to visit big mosque around the world ?

Maybe by visiting a mosque god can guide this personn, no ?


I do not understand people, its very sad, but I can not change that Allah SWT is doing his project, people they switch off their brain.

Everything is in front of you, but people are blind, not with eyes, but the eart is blind .


I ask god, allah, elohim, you can call him as you want he has the most beatiful name, to forgive us.

I ask god to guide us because if he does't guide us we risk to go to hell for eternity.


Assalam aleykoum sisters end brother in etrnity and in legislation of Mohamed SWS.
True! Very true.

I personally do not even think that the system of legalization can not be made to agree. Or maybe not to agree - but rather to coexist.

All that is needed is a bit of good will. After all - there is no reason why Allah would want to have three different legal systems which do not agree with each other completely.
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,


I do not understand people ?

How can we forbid somebody to go in part of the world ?

Jews, Christains, muslims are all from our father Abraham.

.
Jews and Christians of today aren't from our father Abraham and don't follow the monotheistic path!

:w:
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 05:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Me too I agree with you.

God creat 3 laws for 3 ways to worship him.

We have differnces between us only with the way we pray him.

If I am not wrong our father is abraha no ?

Can somebody tell me what Allah SWT says to the prophete mohamed to say about our father Abraham ?


Assalam aleykoum.
I have no idea what you are talking about..

Most of the Jews we have today are descendants of khazars who converted to Judaism during the 11th c. christians worship a man names Jesus and that is the bulk of their religion. They are not descendants of Abraham (p) and they are not following the pure monotheistic path.. There are no three ways to God, There is only ONE. if you wish to take a detour you are free to do so, but you are not free to impose on us that it is what God wants!

all the best
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 05:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam Aleykoum,


I agree with you, from the begining until the end of the world there is only a very few people in the monotheistic path.
Wa3lykoum aslaam.. indeed those who are given knowledge are few and far in between!
Its for that I make a DOUA evry day, I ask Allah, god, Elohim to guide me.
Islam isn't mere du3a, it is also striving for the truth!
Results وَمَثَلُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا كَمَثَلِ الَّذِي يَنْعِقُ بِمَا لَا يَسْمَعُ إِلَّا دُعَاءً وَنِدَاءً ۚ صُمٌّ بُكْمٌ عُمْيٌ فَهُمْ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ {171}
[Pickthal 2:171] The likeness of those who disbelieve is as the likeness of one who calleth unto that which heareth naught except a shout and cry. Deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.

Can I say I am in the right path today ?
I don't know, are you?
Can I say I am not associating with god in my worship, without noticing it ?
Only you can answer that question, it is worrisome that you can't distinguish shirk akbar and I wonder for your sake how that translates to shirk asghar!

Can I say the devil have not got me ?
Again, only you can answer that!

I am sure of nothing, I am scared, I do not want to go to hell and I am not wishing it to anybody.
Indeed he who worships without knowledge is prey to many bad portals!
How I can be sure I am in the right Path, the only way is to ask Allah SWT to guide me, I am every day to read the revelation of god the Quran, I have always to control what people are telling me, I have to analyse.
Books help and so do scholars it isn't that difficult to take oneself out of ignorance!
I do not want to be send to hell by the teaching of Human, I am trying to reach Allah SWT every day.
OK!
Because its possible to reach Allah SWT, I have reached him once but nobody in this world will beleive me.

Why do you need others to believe something that is between you and God?
But since that day, I am trying to reach him again, but its very hard in this world of sin, the Iman is rising and descending.
Welcome to the human condition!
I have to fight against my NAFS and the bigest enemy of Human, the devil the very clever.
Best way to fight is to gain knowledge not wallow in fear and self-pity and rosy words that appease everyone!
One day inshallah if I am still alive, I will tell you about that night I reached Allah SWT.
OK



Assalam aleykoum.
wa3lykoum aslaam wr wb
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 05:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
The point in common is our father Abraham no ?

In Al Quran Al KARIM :



1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Surah 3
95. Say: "(Allah) speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."

Surah 4
125. Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.


Can you tell me what do you understand above ?




Its for that I do not understand people who ban people from Mekka and Medina ?

Does Allah SWT can borbid his creation to go in any plca around the world ?

If yes give me the proof, I follow you ?


Assalam aleykoum
Did you also come across this?

3: 19] The religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): nor did the people of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.


you can't take snippets of the Quran to create a new religion. There is a proper exegesis and scholarship to religion!
Reply

جوري
05-18-2010, 06:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,


I impose nothing, Allah SWT is watching me .

Surah 2

256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

I say that Moses, jesus and mohamed SWS are descendent of Abraham is it true ?


I am also saying that I am not understand how people car act like that against people to forbid them the Makka or Medina ?
No one is forcing you to be Muslim, but don't expect to write outside of the folds of Islam without others pointing it out. You didn't say Jesus and Mohammed are descendants of Abraham you said Jews and Christians are, and I have already covered that and have no desire to repeat myself!


format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,


I do not want to talk about that in this post, that will take a long time and is not the subject here.
Then Quit writing
I give you an advice if you want to understand the quran you have :
You can't give me an advise on the Quran if you have no idea of its contents or meaning!

1) to take all the Quran in his totality
The Quran isn't a He..

2) the big mistake to avoid is not to contradict any verse, because Allah SWT says no contradiction in the Quran
There are no contradictory verses in the Quran, there is however people with no understanding of the Quran and in their heart there is a sickness to perverse it!

Surah 4

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


82. Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Your point being? You are incoherent at best!

3) if you contradict only one verse you have the wrong interpretation.
The religion of Abraham is Islam, just because you don't understand that doesn't mean that I or the Quran is in error- It means you are either (not a Muslim) not the first of your kind to grace us on board, or someone so uneducated in Islam that for your sake I suggest you receive proper guidance!

I am not saying I know every thing, just I have spending every day for the truth.
You are right, you don't have to say it, it is apparent to the naked eye!

I know nothing I am still learning and I am asking Allah SWT to teach me, he is the best teacher.
seeking whims isn't from God but from self!


I ak Allah SWT to forgive us and to teach us and to guide us you and all your family and all people.
You do that!
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009

I am also saying that I am not understand how people car act like that against people to forbid them the Makka or Medina ?
Allah SWT says in the Qur'an:

QS. 9:28

O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

And I have written in previous post also about the hadiths that created haram status for Madina
Reply

Ramadhan
05-18-2010, 07:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by thetruth2009
Assalam aleykoum,



In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


Surah 2

107. Knowest thou not that to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Him ye have neither patron nor helper.


Surah 3

109. To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: To Him do all questions go back (for decision).



Surah 5

97. Allah made the Ka'ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them: That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.


Surah 29
20. Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things


How can we travel to the earth if part of it is forbideen ?


How people, who they call themself , muslims, they can forbid to others to go to the Kaaba ?



Can you tell me what do you read above if you are sincer ?



Assalam aleykoum.
Makkah and Madina is the holy places where we offer pray and worship Allah SWT.

And if you don't believe in Allah SWT, why would you go there?
Reply

Supreme
05-18-2010, 07:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
When Jerusalem is 'conquered' by the Muslims which btw is a poor choice of word because it always belonged to the believers,
OK, I never used the term 'conquerer, but go on...

then there won't be Muslim/Christian/Jew divide (that is in fact the Muslim view if you want it) the war at the end is said to be a war between good and evil, and when Jesus (p) descends (again the Islamic view) he will reunite all under the true religion, the one that has always been!..
Fair enough...

so pious Jews and christians and Muslims will be united as one perhaps not as many as those who will deny him and follow the anti-christ but it is said that the meek shall inherit the earth.. so the anti-christ and his army will be as nothing and Jerusalem once again will belong to the righteous!

all the best
OK, nice Biblical quote you included. Although, I asked you whether non-Muslims would be permitted to live in Jerusalem, not what future Islamic beliefs say about Jerusalem. It is interesting though.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
05-18-2010, 07:40 PM
:sl:

The Entry Of Non-Muslims In Makkah And Madinah

By Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani

There are three different injunctions in relation to the entry of non-Muslims into Arabia which should be understood separately, and should not be confused with each other :

The first injunction is found in the well-known Hadith:

Expel the mushriks from the Arabian peninsula (Bukhari)

All the Muslim jurists are unanimous on the point that this Hadith has banned the permanent citizenship of the Arabian pe- ninsula for the mushriks but has not prohibited their entry on their temporary visit to the peninsula. They may enter the peninsula and stay there for some time but they cannot live there as its permanent citizens*. In other words, the Arabian peninsula has been declared as a homeland for Muslims exclusively. So, if the foreign visitors or envoys or delegations have been allowed to enter the peninsula, it was, by no means, a contravention of the instruction of the Hadith quoted above.

The second injunction relates to the entry of the non-Muslims into the precincts of the Haram of Makkah. This injunction is based on Quranic verse contained in the Surah al-Bara'ah :

The Associators are impure. So they must not come near "Al-Masjid al-Haram" the Holy Mosque of Makkah.

But the Muslim jurists are not unanimous in the interpretation of this verse. Their different views are as follows :

1. According to the view of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal and Imam Shafi'i this verse has banned the entry of the non- Muslims not only to the Holy Mosque, but also to the whole precincts of Haram including the city of Makkah.

2. Imam Malik extends this prohibition to all the masjids of the world. He says that the prohibition is based on the impu- rity of the non-Muslims and every masjid in every part of the world deserves to be immune from such impurity.

3. Imam Abu Hanifah interprets the verse in a quite different way. He says that it is not the non-Muslims that has been banned by this verse, but the context of the verse suggests that the non-Muslims have been forbidden from performing Hajj and Umrah. Before the revelation of this verse, the pagans of Arabia used to perform Hajj and Umrah. Even in the 9th year after Hijrah, when Abu Bakr (R.A) was made the leader of the Hajj a large number of the pagans of Arabia perf- ormed Hajj with him.

On this occasion the Surah of Bara'ah was revealed and their Hajj and Umrah was totally banned with effect from the next year. The Holy Prophet ( Sallaho Alaihai Wasallam ) sent Sayyidna 'Ali (R.A) to announce his prohibition in the plain of 'Arafat where he conveyed the injunctions of the Surah al-Bara'ah to all present in that Hajj. On that occasion he did not announce that the non-Muslims cannot enter the Holy Mosque after his year. Instead, he announced :

"No Associator shall perform Hajj after this year." Keeping in view the context of the verse of Surah al-Bara'ah and this historical background, Imam Abu Hanifah has not taken the verse as a prohibition against the entry of non-Muslims into the limits of Haram or into the Holy Mosque, but has confined the prohibition to the performance of Hajj or Umrah only. It means that the non-Muslims cannot (perform Hajj or Umrah).

Source: Contemporary Fatawaa by Mufti Taqi Usmani, p265-268

-------------------------------

Is it permissible for a non-Muslim to enter Madeenah?

Is it permissible for a non-Muslim to enter Madeenah, i.e., to enter the sanctuary (for a necessary purpose)?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:
It is not permissible allow the kuffaar to take up residence in the Arabian Peninsula. The scholars differed at to the definition of the boundaries of the Arabian Peninsula, but they did not differ as to the fact that Madeenah is part of it.



Ibn Qudaamah said:
It is not permissible for any of them (the kuffaar) to live in the Hijaaz. This is the view of Maalik and al-Shaafa’i, but Maalik said: I think that they should be expelled from all the Arab lands, because the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Two religions cannot coexist in the Arabian Peninsula.” Abu Dawood narrated with his isnaad from ‘Umar that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “I will certainly expel the Jews and the Christians from the Arabian Peninsula,, and I will not leave anyone there but Muslims.” Al-Tirmidhi said: this is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. And it was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left behind three instructions. He said: Expel the mushrikeen from the Arabian Peninsula, honour the delegations the way that I do, and he kept quiet about the third. Narrated by Abu Dawood.
Al-Mughni, 9/285, 286.



Secondly:
It is permissible for kuffaar to enter Madeenah for the purposes of trade, without staying there. They should be given enough time (to complete their business) then they should be told to leave. Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
It is permissible for them to enter the Hijaaz for the purpose of trade, because the Christians used to trade with Madeenah at the time of ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him). An old Christian man came to him in Madeenah and said: “I am an old Christian man and your agent has taken the tithe from me twice.” ‘Umar said: “I am an old monotheist (haneef) man,” and ‘Umar wrote to the agent and said: “Only take the tithe once in a year, and do not allow them to stay for more than three days.” This is what was narrated from ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) and they should leave after that. Al-Qaadi said: Four days is the limit after which a traveller must offer prayers in full.
Al-Mughni, 9/286.



Thirdly:
What we have mentioned about Madeenah and its sanctuary does not apply to the sanctuary of Makkah. The kuffaar are forbidden to enter it under any circumstances.
It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (3/130, 131):
The majority of scholars – including Muhammad ibn al-Hasan among the Hanafis – are of the view that it is not permissible for kuffaar to enter the sanctuary of Makkah at all, The view of the Hanafis is that that is permissible if there is a treaty or they have permission.
With regard to the sanctuary of Madeenah, it is not forbidden for them to enter to bring a message, for trade or to bring some goods. A kaafir may not enter other parts of the Arab lands without permission or a treaty. The fuqaha’ have discussed this matter in detail. Ends.


And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
Reply

AabiruSabeel
05-18-2010, 07:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
OK, I never used the term 'conquerer, but go on...



Fair enough...



OK, nice Biblical quote you included. Although, I asked you whether non-Muslims would be permitted to live in Jerusalem, not what future Islamic beliefs say about Jerusalem. It is interesting though.
As far as I know, there is no restriction for non-Muslims to live in Jerusalem.

PS: Correct if I am wrong by sending a PM.

This thread has already reached it's discussion limit. Time to close it.
Reply

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