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anonymous
05-19-2010, 12:24 PM
Salaam,

I have met a nice muslim brother and we are engaged. However he wants to live with his mother and father and i want our own place - but he is having none of it and says to me either that or nothing. i feel really hurt and upset. how do i explain to him that islamically he must provide me with this as it is my right over his.

w salaam
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أبو سليمان عمر
05-19-2010, 12:48 PM
im not sure but i dont think it is wrong what he is asking for if he provides for his parnets as well
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anonymous
05-19-2010, 01:02 PM
Islamically it is his duty to provide seperate accomedation for the wife. He must look after his parents too. that is the duty of the son and not the daughter in law. if she does then its from the goodness of her heart and nobody can force her to. Its a shame now a days how we confuse islam and culture together and put culture first.
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-19-2010, 01:09 PM
:sl:
ask how he would like his rights to be withheld?

if you dont want to, you have to come to some sort of compromise. either sort something out or just go fishing somewhere else.

at the very least, put some conditions on him if you have to live with them.
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anonymous
05-19-2010, 01:19 PM
the inlaws will drive me mad - i can see it now.
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-19-2010, 01:21 PM
:sl:
then you should speak to him about your reasons and your concerns...the ball is then in his court.

you should do what is good by you...if you feel you cant handle it, don't bite off more than you can chew. pray istikhara as well.

all the best.
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anonymous
05-19-2010, 01:29 PM
what if istikara says its positive and he dont wna move out - then what?
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Abdul Wahid
05-19-2010, 01:38 PM
Agree with sister Ummu Sufyaan!

format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
what if istikara says its positive and he dont wna move out - then what?
Then you have your answer. You never know it might be OK living with your in-laws. You can move out later on. Why don't you agree on a date. Perhaps within a year. Speak with him and sort it out if your not comfortable.
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anonymous
05-19-2010, 01:41 PM
but isnt it the female's right to decide whether she wants her own place or live with the inlaws - why does the male have to dictate everything.
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S_87
05-19-2010, 01:49 PM
hmm touchy subject, whilst a wife has a right to privacy if a man wants to look after his parents and have them living with him then that is also his duty. could you not compromise like tell him you dont mind living on the same street/next door or even same house so long as you completely have your own privacy/quarters?
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Abdul Wahid
05-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Sister sure you have rights. I'm not denying that. Why don't you ask him why he doesn't want a place of his own? He may have his reasons.

I knew a brother who was going to marry a sister that was asking the same thing. To get a house and live together. Nothing wrong with this except he couldn't afford to pay deposit for a house nor rent. He was working and studying. He did say that within a year we could move out but at the end the brother said it's taken so long that he didn't feel it wouldn't work out. So basically he said it wasn't worth it.

Just out of curiosity can you provide me some proof where it says Islamically its the right of sisters to choose where they want to live. I'm just curious. Again speak to him and sort it out.
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anonymous
05-19-2010, 01:59 PM
if a women has the right to her own privacy and he can have the inlaws live with us - isnt that just a contradiction?

it is the duty of the man to provide seperate accomedation for the wife...

''It is the absolute right of a wife on her husband to provide her with a special house without having to share it with other family members''

source: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...twaId&Id=84608
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PouringRain
05-19-2010, 02:37 PM
I don't know anything about rights in Islam, so I know nothing about your right to be supported in your own home or not......... For me, personally, it seems you have a very bad attitude about all of this. You are not happy now and you have not even married this man yet. You are demanding things of him now and he is not your husband. I can only imagine how unhappy and demanding you will be once he is your husband. I am not saying this to be mean, I wonder if maybe you do not realize how you come across. Marriage should never be about "me" or "I." It is an "us." Two people coming together as one. When you start making demands like this you are only thinking of self. Your future husband may not be able to afford separate accommodations, and he is looking for the best way that he knows how to fulfill all his obligations. A wife should be supportive of her husband and do what she can to make life easier for him. Instead of stressing him out with demands and thinking only of yourself, have you thought about humbling yourself with the heart of a servant and gaining a good attitude about all of this? We can not control others-- we can only control ourself and our own attitude towards things in life. Since he has said that living with his parents is the best that he can do, then you can either accept that and change your attitude about it, or you can call off the engagement and find a man with more money.
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AhmadibnNasroon
05-19-2010, 08:10 PM
The issue you've presented is still very vague. What you should do is present the matter is a knowledgable individual and include all aspects of this.

First off

1) How old are you guys
2) Are either/both of you in Uni
3) Is he working
4) How old are his parents? Are they disabled/sick?
5) What is his background and yours (yes culture plays a role in nikkah and many other aspects of Islam)
6) Is he the only son? If not, how old are his brothers? How capable are they of taking care of his parents?
7) What alternative solutions do you have? What alternative solutions does he have?

Please look at the bigger picture, and he should as well. I hope it works out, may Allah help you both ameen.
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CosmicPathos
05-19-2010, 08:19 PM
@ anonymous: You should be happy that he has clarified to you in advance what he wants. If you are not happy with it, dont marry. You being hurt because of his ability to say either this or not is not in any way severe than him being hurt by not being able to live with his parents, especially since he has clarified his intentions clearly right before the marriage. Either both of you must find some common ground/compromise or its time to move on.

Its not part of his culture to live with his parents. Islamically, he should buy you your separate place but he has no obligation to spend all the time with you in your house. He should relax his laws a bit but only to the extent where you will have your own place but where he will spend equal time with his parents in his house and with you in your house.
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Dagless
05-20-2010, 12:43 AM
You have no rights since you are currently not his wife. He has told you honestly what he wants, and if you cannot meet those requirements then you have your answer. I don't think this is something to be forcefully changed, and even though you could compromise and say you will move out in a year I don't think its worth it since your feelings are very strong on this and if you don't move out in a year you'll only make things difficult for him.
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Ummu Sufyaan
05-20-2010, 05:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
but isnt it the female's right to decide whether she wants her own place or live with the inlaws - why does the male have to dictate everything.
he doesnt :hmm:

format_quote Originally Posted by amani
hmm touchy subject, whilst a wife has a right to privacy if a man wants to look after his parents and have them living with him then that is also his duty. could you not compromise like tell him you dont mind living on the same street/next door or even same house so long as you completely have your own privacy/quarters?
i agree with this as well. if you live close to them, they can still be looked after (if thats the reason he wants by you living with them).

if you go ahead with it as i said, lay some conditions and make him understand what your concerns are (i mean everything you are worried about talk to him and bring it to his attention and make sure he understands things from your perspective.
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أبو سليمان عمر
05-20-2010, 07:29 AM
Al-Kaasaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

If a husband wants to make her live with a co-wife or her in-laws, such as his mother or sister or daughter from another marriage or another relative, and she refuses to accept that, then he has to provide her with accommodation of her own… But if he lodges her in a room of the house that has a door of its own, this is sufficient for her and she should not ask him for alternative accommodation, because the harm caused by fear for her belongings and not being able to relax is no longer there. (Badaa’i’ al-Sanaa’i’, 4/23)

so as long as there is not any non marhrms there such as his brother etc only his parnets he can keep his wife in the same house but if she refuses then he can give her a room in the house with its own bathroom and kitchen and a door to clse it
and again he was kind to tell u before marrying so that u know what he wants and you said he said this is how it is then that is how it is either take it or leave it
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CosmicPathos
05-20-2010, 07:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
but isnt it the female's right to decide whether she wants her own place or live with the inlaws - why does the male have to dictate everything.
He is dictating his terms. But arent you the one who is dictating her own terms as well i.e. to have a separate house? It seems pretty sexist when a woman makes comments like that regarding males.
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Alpha Dude
05-20-2010, 07:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
You have no rights since you are currently not his wife. He has told you honestly what he wants, and if you cannot meet those requirements then you have your answer. I don't think this is something to be forcefully changed, and even though you could compromise and say you will move out in a year I don't think its worth it since your feelings are very strong on this and if you don't move out in a year you'll only make things difficult for him.
format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist
He is dictating his terms. But arent you the one who is dictating her own terms as well i.e. to have a separate house? It seems pretty sexist when a woman makes comments like that regarding males.
Agree with the above. Yes, it is your right to have seperate accomodation, but there is irony in your statement with regard to him dictating.

how do i explain to him that islamically he must provide me with this as it is my right over his.
Have you actually tried telling him that it is an Islamic obligation? If so, what was his response?
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anonymous
05-20-2010, 08:01 AM
i will do istikara and take it from there.
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cat eyes
05-20-2010, 10:43 AM
it depends on his financial situation sister. i agree with pouring rain. he might not be able to efford separate accomadation however nobody is saying it wont be hard it will be especially if its a small house it will be hard having privacy and his parents will more then likely hear everything when they are in the house
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revert2007
05-20-2010, 12:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
Salaam,

I have met a nice muslim brother and we are engaged. However he wants to live with his mother and father and i want our own place - but he is having none of it and says to me either that or nothing. i feel really hurt and upset. how do i explain to him that islamically he must provide me with this as it is my right over his.

w salaam
Assalamualikum my dear sister.

I am in the same boat with you.Well I am married and living with my in laws now.I know it is not that easy especially dealing with your mother in law lol.

Well which one do you prefer?To loose him forever or give him some time till he can get a house for you?

Actually it isn't that bad living with ur in laws.for example when u have children,she will help u in taking care of ur kids and this reduce ur burden.

perhaps u need on some islamic books on how to deal with in laws.it takes a long time to get use to each other.during this long time,you need to be really strong.
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anonymous
05-20-2010, 02:49 PM
He can afford it - he is really wealthy. I have enough money to rent also.
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revert2007
05-20-2010, 10:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
He can afford it - he is really wealthy. I have enough money to rent also.
Then he must get a house for you as that is what Islam says.Because taking care if the wife's feeling is obligatory and it is not islamic to live together with the parents unless he doesn't have other choice.You really need to come to an agreement before marrying him.This is a huge step and becareful.If possible get things written down black and white.Just for safety precaution.
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AhmadibnNasroon
05-21-2010, 02:31 PM
People people people!!!!

Lets go easy on the sis!!! I understand everyone's grievances but we know so little about this situation.

As for the OP, you're not helping by just giving us 5% of the information. Much more needs to be known before anything drastic is considered.

You mentioned he is wealthy, can you answer the rest of the questions I previously posted? That would help in giving everyone a better understanding towards your situation.
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S_87
05-23-2010, 11:25 AM
you know this could mean a mini apartment/section within the house?

if he is really wealthy then tell him you dont mind a compromise like living on the same street or area etc so long as you have your OWN space..and when his parents need him (as in they are old and incapable of looking after themselves) you dont mind them living with you all but you really need your own privacy
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xsmilesx
05-28-2010, 11:37 AM
Do not get married to him if you think you will be unhappy. Simple.
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Snowflake
05-28-2010, 12:30 PM
:sl: If he is his parents main carer and they can't fend for themselves, meaning they are sick/elderly, or both, then I can understand him not wanting to move out. But he does have to provide you with a separate accomodation which of course means that his time will be divided between two homes.He will be working too, so that that leaves even less time for you. Like any dutiful son he may check on his parents first before coming to you. You will have to accept his parents come first.



Before you insist on separate accomodation, consider the advantages and disadvantages of living with your in-laws. It is certainly not easy finding yourself alone with a baby. With in-laws there is always someone to feed or watch over the baby when you need to do something else. If you're alone and hubby is at work, you won't be able to do much except be stuck with the baby all by yourself. I couldn't even go to the bathroom without my son screaming his head off. It's enough to drive you to insanity. Now imagine cooking, cleaning and the rest of it - not to mention the zombie-like state you're in for months if your baby doesn't sleep through the night. I also noticed babies in lively households are happier and more stimulated. Of course there are downsides to living with in-laws too and I'm sure you're well aware of them from other's experiences. But what I'm saying is, it might not be like that for you. So weigh the pros and cons and then come to a decision. Don't let others make your mind up for you. If after taking everything into consideration you think you can't do it then tell your fiance. But don't be unfair either. If you know financially he is not in the position to afford two households, and you can't accept that, then let him go.


:wa:
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Hamza Asadullah
05-30-2010, 06:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by anonymous
Salaam,

I have met a nice muslim brother and we are engaged. However he wants to live with his mother and father and i want our own place - but he is having none of it and says to me either that or nothing. i feel really hurt and upset. how do i explain to him that islamically he must provide me with this as it is my right over his.

w salaam
Asalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

The Shariah has given certain rights to the husband, just as it has give rights to the wife. Many times, failure to give the spouses their rights results in conflict and eventually breakdown of Marriage.

These rights, at times, may not go down to well with certain people and cultures. However, it is necessary for us to educate those Muslims who have been affected by cultural customs and traditions, and inform them of the injunctions of Shariah.

The benefit of learning and educating the masses about the rules and injunctions of Shariah with regards to social affairs is that each party will appreciate what the other has to offer. Subsequently, this will lead to respect, love and harmony.

For example, it is not necessary upon the wife to cook for or serve her parents in-law. Now, many people believe that it is the duty of the wife to look after not only the household affairs but all the family members including the nephew, niece, etc... If she is negligent in any way, then she is rebuked.

However, if the in-laws did not regard this as an incumbent duty of the wife, and she on her own accord took care of the household work, then this work will surely be appreciated. She will also in turn do her best to give something back in return for this appreciation.

Therefore, it is our duty that we teach the masses and inform them of the injunctions of Shariah with regards to social affairs. This may be a Jihad, and one will no doubt face much opposition from culturally oriented individuals, but the rewards by Allah will be immense Insha Allah.

The Wife’s Right to an Independent ‘Shariah House’

In the Hanafi school, the wife has a right to live (and demand to live) separately. It is the duty and responsibility of the husband to provide her with shelter (suknah). This shelter must, if she demands so, be free from the interference of any of the husband’s family. The responsibility of the husband will be fulfilled if the wife is provided with a separate area within the house, and where she is able to keep her belongings and where none of the husband’s family members are able to enter.

Imam al-Haskafi states in Durr al-Mukhtar:

“It is necessary for the husband to provide the wife with a shelter (home) that is free from his and her family members…. taking into consideration both their economic standings. A separate quarter within the house that has a lock, separate bathroom and kitchen will be [minimally] sufficient.”

The great Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) comments on this by saying:

“The reason behind al-Haskafi’s statement “Free from his family members” is that at times it may be harmful for her to share the house with other people, as her belongings may not be safe. Also, she will not able to enjoy her husband’s company in the presence of other people”.

Regarding al-Haskafi’s statement “Separate bathroom and kitchen”, this may defer from one family to another. Poor people who normally share these things with other families may find it difficult to provide a house with a separate bathroom and cooking area. Therefore, for them it will be sufficient to provide a separate quarter that has a lock” (Radd al-Muhtar 3/559-600).

Imam al-Kasani states in his Bada’i al-Sana’i:

“It is necessary to provide the wife with shelter as Allah Most High Says: “Let the women live in the same stile as you live, according to your means. And annoy them not, so as to restrict them” (al-Talaq, 6).

So what about the other family members?

If the husband desired her to live with his other wife or his family members, such as: his mum, sister, daughter from another wife or relatives, and she refused, then it will incumbent upon him to provide her with a separate living quarter. The reason for this is that she may be harmed in co-sharing, and her refusal is a sign of harm. Also, the spouses need to fulfill their mutual sexual needs whenever the need arises, which may be difficult with others around.

If the husband provided her with a separate quarter in a large home, which has a separate lock, then she will not have right to demand for a total separate house” (Kasani, Bada’i al-Sana’i, Vol.4, P.23).

In Conclusion

In conclusion, it is the responsibility of the husband to provide the wife with shelter. If she demands it to be separate from the husbands family, then the husband will be obliged to provide a living quarter which is free from the interference of others and that it has a separate lock. As far as the bathroom and cooking area is concerned, this should also be separate if they are not from a poor family background (as Ibn Abidin mentions in length in his super commentary), or else the responsibility will be discharged by providing the above.

And Allah knows best

Sheikh Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, UK

Therefore sister it is clear that it is your right to have your own living space seperate from his parents but if he has made his position clear then you should have a very serious think about whether you want to take this to marriage or not as this is your chance to pull out and find someone that is willing to live seperatley.

If there are non mahrams in the house like his brother then it is not permissable for you to live there but if he is the only son and the only one who can look after his parents then you should respect his wished that he wants to remain with them and look after them in their final years. At least he has made it clear to you at this stage prior to marriage so he has not wronged you in anyway. But if you do choose to stay with his inlaws then that would be a means of great reward for you even though it is not your duty to look after his parents but if he is the only son then surely it is his duty to look after his parents during their old age.

So you should make your choice now so that you do not regret it later for it is not too late to pull out as an engagement does not exist in Islam. Ask of Allah and i hope inshallah whatever is best will happen for you and him. Ameen
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