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View Full Version : They call it 'Fredom of Speech'



Badrul
05-22-2010, 12:20 AM
When you attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewish people, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call it sexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. When you attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack a religious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet peace be upon him, they want to call it freedom of speech!
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Skavau
05-22-2010, 06:06 AM
Firstly, tell me what you mean by 'attack'. Being a white supremist or white nationalist and posting on Stormfront (or advocating those ideals) is not illegal. Being critical of Judaism as a religion and being critical of Israel is not illegal (otherwise you can bet that over half of the members on this website and similar websites would not be here). Being critical and criticising homosexuality is also not illegal. When you criticise, ridicule or insult a religious sect - again that is perfectly legal. Again: What do you mean by 'attack'?

Attacking your own country also is an action completely unrelated to free speech. Everything you said in the above is not only not necessarily true, it is unspecified what precisely you mean and none of it has much relevance to people insulting a religious figure.
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Rabi Mansur
05-22-2010, 09:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Badrul
When you attack black people, they call it racism. When you attack Jewish people, they call it anti-semetism. When you attack women, they call it sexism. When you attack homosexuality, they call it intolerance. When you attack your country, they call it treason. When you attack a religious sect, they call it hate speech. But when you attack the Prophet peace be upon him, they want to call it freedom of speech!
I understand your point. However, when you attack the Prophet (PBUH) some people put it under the umbrella of Islamophobia. At least that is what some in the western media who are sympathetic to Islam are trying to call it. But really, in the minds of those in western society, is it really an "attack" on him when they don't understand why they can't show a simple representation? I don't see it as an "attack." People just don't understand what the big deal is unless they are Muslim. Where I live there basically are no Muslims. I live in a city of about 75,000 people and I know of only one Muslim family in the entire city. People fear what they don't understand.
In a nation that values freedom of speech, and the free market of ideas, threatening to kill people who have drawn a picture of someone who lived 1400 years ago seems to be an act of insanity. And frankly, no one really knows what he looked like anyway.
I'm just trying to give you the other side of the argument my friend.

Salaam!
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Cyph0n
05-22-2010, 06:49 PM
You have to know that it's the nature of human beings to stick their noses into what they don't understand or know much about. It's called curiosity, and, unfortunately, the Western dimwits who draw caricatures of Mohammed (PBUH) don't actually understand how serious ridiculing the Prophet is to us.

Additionally, whenever humans find out that a certain thing (like making fun of the Prophet) makes certain people, and not the rest, upset, they dig their noses deeper into it. It's a basic rule that will likely never change.

So, in my opinion, the best way to fight this somewhat offensive curiosity is to defend ourselves indirectly, without threatening the people responsible as not to make them dig deeper. An effective instance of such defense is to boycott any products manufactured in the country responsible (if applicable), like what happened to Denmark a while back.
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Pygoscelis
05-22-2010, 07:29 PM
And you think said boycot won't make them dig deeper? When drawing a picture can drive people to violence, or even to boycot, it is a truly fascinating phenomenon and outsiders will be interested. Nothing draws a crowd like a taboo.
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جوري
05-22-2010, 08:42 PM
They can dig deeper while suffering an economic melt-down if it will fill their void!

all the best
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Trumble
05-22-2010, 09:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cyph0n
You have to know that it's the nature of human beings to stick their noses into what they don't understand or know much about. It's called curiosity, and, unfortunately, the Western dimwits who draw caricatures of Mohammed (PBUH) don't actually understand how serious ridiculing the Prophet is to us.
In my opinion they are very well aware of how serious you find it, which is exactly why they do it. The essential point that always seem to get missed here is that these people don't have the slightest interest in 'ridiculing the Prophet' and that is not what they are trying to do. What they are trying to do is ridicule the muslims who get wound up about it.

The 'best way to fight it' is therefore no more boycotts and such than it is violence. They only effective method is, hard as it may be, just ignore to it. It will then stop, and the idiots concerned will seek new 'fish' to catch when their current targets stop taking the bait. Any other sort of response gives them just what they want.
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Ramadhan
05-23-2010, 03:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
And you think said boycot won't make them dig deeper? When drawing a picture can drive people to violence, or even to boycot, it is a truly fascinating phenomenon and outsiders will be interested. Nothing draws a crowd like a taboo.
Ridiculing god and prophets is not taboo for christians and jews, and yet making entertainment out of them is HUGE business.
So what's your point?
When there is no standards to be upheld, human tends to go for the lowest debasements of morals.
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Ramadhan
05-23-2010, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
In my opinion they are very well aware of how serious you find it, which is exactly why they do it. The essential point that always seem to get missed here is that these people don't have the slightest interest in 'ridiculing the Prophet' and that is not what they are trying to do. What they are trying to do is ridicule the muslims who get wound up about it.

The 'best way to fight it' is therefore no more boycotts and such than it is violence. They only effective method is, hard as it may be, just ignore to it. It will then stop, and the idiots concerned will seek new 'fish' to catch when their current targets stop taking the bait. Any other sort of response gives them just what they want.
Your theory does not hold water.
Christians and jews allow their "god" and prophets to be ridiculed.
And guess what?
The ridiculing continues. at a much much bigger extent.
Just because people do not mind getting insulted does not mean the insults stop.
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Raaina
05-23-2010, 07:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
In my opinion they are very well aware of how serious you find it, which is exactly why they do it. The essential point that always seem to get missed here is that these people don't have the slightest interest in 'ridiculing the Prophet' and that is not what they are trying to do. What they are trying to do is ridicule the muslims who get wound up about it.

The 'best way to fight it' is therefore no more boycotts and such than it is violence. They only effective method is, hard as it may be, just ignore to it. It will then stop, and the idiots concerned will seek new 'fish' to catch when their current targets stop taking the bait. Any other sort of response gives them just what they want.
You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly the reason they do this - to cause a reaction and then go ohh look at the muslims being extreme over this.
Better to not raise to the bait and they will get bored and find something else to do.
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Rhubarb Tart
05-23-2010, 10:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
In my opinion they are very well aware of how serious you find it, which is exactly why they do it. The essential point that always seem to get missed here is that these people don't have the slightest interest in 'ridiculing the Prophet' and that is not what they are trying to do. What they are trying to do is ridicule the muslims who get wound up about it.

The 'best way to fight it' is therefore no more boycotts and such than it is violence. They only effective method is, hard as it may be, just ignore to it. It will then stop, and the idiots concerned will seek new 'fish' to catch when their current targets stop taking the bait. Any other sort of response gives them just what they want.
I completely agree with this statement. Some muslims have already sank low. There is now a facebook group called Everybody draw Holocaust day (30 June 2010) created by Muslims. This is not an Islamic behaviour and I have noticed this brings out the worse in Muslims. I thought we all learnt a lesson during 2005, apparently we haven’t.
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Rhubarb Tart
05-23-2010, 10:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Your theory does not hold water.
Christians and jews allow their "god" and prophets to be ridiculed.
And guess what?
The ridiculing continues. at a much much bigger extent.
Just because people do not mind getting insulted does not mean the insults stop.
Of course the insult may not stop. But if we were to scream and shout would that stop it? I dont think so.
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Cyph0n
05-23-2010, 11:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
In my opinion they are very well aware of how serious you find it, which is exactly why they do it. The essential point that always seem to get missed here is that these people don't have the slightest interest in 'ridiculing the Prophet' and that is not what they are trying to do. What they are trying to do is ridicule the muslims who get wound up about it.

The 'best way to fight it' is therefore no more boycotts and such than it is violence. They only effective method is, hard as it may be, just ignore to it. It will then stop, and the idiots concerned will seek new 'fish' to catch when their current targets stop taking the bait. Any other sort of response gives them just what they want.
Although, like you mentioned, their main aim is to ridicule Muslims as a whole, the most effective way of fulfilling this goal is by making fun of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and that's what makes them interested in him.

As for the solution you proposed, it is a viable way to avoid ridicule by most concerned 'idiots', but in reality, there is a certain group of these 'idiots' that draw caricatures of the Prophet just because they hate Muslims. That's why I chose boycotting as the best solution; as long as they're going to ridicule us whether we react or not, then let's take down what they think is most important: money.

This is just my opinion of course, so please correct me if you think I'm wrong.
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Rhubarb Tart
05-23-2010, 11:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cyph0n
Although, like you mentioned, their main aim is to ridicule Muslims as a whole, the most effective way of fulfilling this goal is by making fun of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and that's what makes them interested in him.

As for the solution you proposed, it is a viable way to avoid ridicule by most concerned 'idiots', but in reality, there is a certain group of these 'idiots' that draw caricatures of the Prophet just because they hate Muslims. That's why I chose boycotting as the best solution; as long as they're going to ridicule us whether we react or not, then let's take down what they think is most important: money.



This is just my opinion of course, so please correct me if you think I'm wrong.
Do you think they will stop? That is after you boycott facebook? I dont know. I deactivited my facebook long before this. I think the website itself is crap and full of hate (not just towards muslims but to 2immigrants as well).
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Cyph0n
05-23-2010, 11:33 AM
When a guy from Denmark started the Mohammad caricature trend, Muslims worldwide boycotted products that were manufactured in Denmark. After losing billions of dollars, they had no choice but to apologize, and they did.

On the other hand, Facebook is something that even most Muslims can't boycott. Why? Because they depend their social lives on it, and that what makes it a problem. As for me, I hate Facebook as well and I personally think it's just a waste of time.
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shuraimfan4lyf
05-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Whoever created the "Draw Holocaust Day" in order to have revenge is really childish. What are they going to do? Draw a man with a tiny mustache and few gas chambers here and there?? Nonsense!
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FS123
05-23-2010, 12:16 PM
I'm working on a facebook alternative software.
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Raaina
05-23-2010, 12:26 PM
So now Facebook has been getting a bit of bad press coverage, being banned in certain countries and abandoned by Muslims worldwide. Perhaps this would be a good time for MySpace and Bebo to try and make a come back as social networking sites.

format_quote Originally Posted by shuraimfan4lyf
Whoever created the "Draw Holocaust Day" in order to have revenge is really childish. What are they going to do? Draw a man with a tiny mustache and few gas chambers here and there?? Nonsense!
I agree, that is completely stupid.
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Rhubarb Tart
05-23-2010, 06:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cyph0n
When a guy from Denmark started the Mohammad caricature trend, Muslims worldwide boycotted products that were manufactured in Denmark. After losing billions of dollars, they had no choice but to apologize, and they did.

On the other hand, Facebook is something that even most Muslims can't boycott. Why? Because they depend their social lives on it, and that what makes it a problem. As for me, I hate Facebook as well and I personally think it's just a waste of time.

Also, don’t forget about the violent protest in 2005, appalling behaviour by so called “Muslims” and 100 people lost their lives. I think Muslims should have boycotted facebook way before this. There were plenty of groups that not only insulted our prophet but also Allah (swt).

I don’t know if I should write the titles because it is very disturbing and I might be banned. Also, there are plenty of racists groups towards (mainly) Pakistanis. “Pakis” as these ignorant idiots would call it. And I have seen appalling things written about Jews from so called “Muslims”. Facebook is the place to express hate and as soon as I saw that. I deactivated for 6 months now. My little sister showed me the Draw holocaust group and I am trying to tell her to boycott facebook. Disgusting...
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M..x
05-23-2010, 06:53 PM
On the issue of Facebook. Contrary to my grand opinion before I deactivated my account, Facebook really is a waste of time, effort and life. However, that may be said for any internet site. There are some people hooked on the internet and literally are dependant on it and Facebook is no different. However, in comparison with other sites (e.g. LI), it has little benefit or value to it. Some may argue that you can spread daw'ah etc but seriously, with all the status updating and the message sending etc how much daw'ah are you really doing? And how effective is it?
Further to that, it has got so much filth on it, and although it may seem as a good means of keeping in touch between family and peers, we live in 2010, there's other ways.. Get over it. I seen so much rubbish on there recently, its just put me off using it, hence I deleted my account.
As the disadvantages outweigh the benefits of using it.. its best to avoid the fitnah altogether.
Please note, this is AFTER I deactivated my account, obviously my views differed whilst I was on it. Hah.
As for Draw Holocaust Day. That is disgusting. Really. You'd think that these individuals learn from stuff that has happened in the past, but clearly not. Insulting and hating on any faith in the way Islam has been subjected to is just despicable, and its just a shame that there is a minority of Muslim's who never learn. *Sigh*
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