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View Full Version : Gulf oil spill: BP hopes to cap flow 'within 24 hours'



Supreme
06-01-2010, 09:43 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_...a/10198201.stm
BP hopes to contain the spill from its leaking well in the Gulf of Mexico within 24 hours, its chief operating officer, Doug Suttles, has said.

An operation using undersea robots to cut off the fractured pipe and seal it with a cap was launched on Tuesday.

It comes as US President Barack Obama threatened legal action against those responsible for the leak.

Mr Suttles said: "If everything goes well, within the next 24 hours we could have this contained."

But, striking a note of caution, he stressed that success was not guaranteed and urged people to "remember this is being done in 5,000 feet of water, and very small issues take a long time to fix".

The oil giant's shares fell sharply on Tuesday after the failure of its previous efforts to "top kill" the leak by pumping mud into the well.
Legal action is being taken against BP, and rightfully so. They have failed in their attempts at clearing up the oil and it is so far damaging wildlife, natural beauty and lives.
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Woodrow
06-03-2010, 09:45 PM
The leak is much worse than what the media is showing. It is a threat to all of the Earth and not just to the USA,

Many here know I live among the Lakota and many of the Lakotah follow the Traditional Native Religion. Chief "Arvol Looking Horse" is the spiritual leader of the Lakotah who follow the Traditional Religion. The "Republic of Lakotah" has asked me to pass on the message from Chief Arvol asking all people of the world to pray for the healing of the damages this man made disaster is bringing upon the Earth.

Here is the message from Chief Arvol

Heal the Gulf Oil Spill: Chief Arvol Looking Horse sends a request to leaders
Chief

Following the trend of indigenous spiritual leaders stepping forth in support of Mother Earth Chief Arvol Looking Horse (Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe) has issued this letter to the world’s religion and spiritual leaders. It asks us all to help in healing the Gulf of Mexico oil spill as well as all the other disasters humans have created on our Mother Earth. Please read this and consider doing your part, whatever that might be.

My Relatives,

Time has come to speak to the hearts of our Nations and their Leaders. I ask you this from the bottom of my heart, to come together from the Spirit of your Nations in prayer.

We, from the heart of Turtle Island , have a great message for the World; we are guided to speak from all the White Animals showing their sacred color, which have been signs for us to pray for the sacred life of all things. As I am sending this message to you, many Animal Nations are being threatened, those that swim, those that crawl, those that fly, and the plant Nations, eventually all will be affected from the oil disaster in the Gulf.

The dangers we are faced with at this time are not of spirit. The catastrophe that has happened with the oil spill which looks like the bleeding of Grandmother Earth, is made by human mistakes, mistakes that we cannot afford to continue to make.

I asked, as Spiritual Leaders, that we join together, united in prayer with the whole of our Global Communities. My concern is these serious issues will continue to worsen, as a domino effect that our Ancestors have warned us of in their Prophecies.

I know in my heart there are millions of people that feel our united prayers for the sake of our Grandmother Earth are long overdue. I believe we as Spiritual people must gather ourselves and focus our thoughts and prayers to allow the healing of the many wounds that have been inflicted on the Earth. As we honor the Cycle of Life, let us call for Prayer circles globally to assist in healing Grandmother Earth (our Unc'I Maka).

We ask for prayers that the oil spill, this bleeding, will stop. That the winds stay calm to assist in the work. Pray for the people to be guided in repairing this mistake, and that we may also seek to live in harmony, as we make the choice to change the destructive path we are on.

As we pray, we will fully understand that we are all connected. And that what we create can have lasting effects on all life.

So let us unite spiritually, All Nations, All Faiths, One Prayer. Along with this immediate effort, I also ask to please remember June 21st, World Peace and Prayer Day/Honoring Sacred Sites day. Whether it is a natural site, a temple, a church, a synagogue or just your own sacred space, let us make a prayer for all life, for good decision making by our Nations, for our children's future and well-being, and the generations to come.

Onipikte (that we shall live),

Chief Arvol Looking Horse
19th generation Keeper of the Sacred White Buffalo Calf Pipe
(Wolakota.org)
source

Let us remember the Earth in our Du'as and pray that this damage be undone.
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glo
06-03-2010, 10:09 PM
So let us unite spiritually, All Nations, All Faiths, One Prayer. Along with this immediate effort, I also ask to please remember June 21st, World Peace and Prayer Day/Honoring Sacred Sites day. Whether it is a natural site, a temple, a church, a synagogue or just your own sacred space, let us make a prayer for all life, for good decision making by our Nations, for our children's future and well-being, and the generations to come.

Onipikte (that we shall live)
Amen to that prayer, Woodrow.
It is an encouraging thought that people of all races, nationalities and religions may be joining in this prayer!
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islamirama
06-03-2010, 10:37 PM
It can be easily fixed and could have been fixed the first day. The best way to do it is destroy that pipeline with the sideaffect of shutting it down forever with no more oil in the future and that is something Obama and BP doesnt' want, rather pollute the waters and find other stupid ways to do it so they don't loose their investment and profits.
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IslamicRevival
06-03-2010, 10:48 PM
Its sickening how the US have manipulated the public. Its them who were bleating on about 'Global warming' and all the crap about how they were going to 'save the planet' not so long ago and now its them who have caused this disaster which threatens the environment. They can blame BP all they want but the main culprits are the US

These greedy gold diggers are the cancer of this world
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tango92
06-03-2010, 10:51 PM
hey guys why do you want this hole blocked up?

all the oil theyve been stealing form iraq is literally being flushed down the drain. Subhanallah

I say Alhumdulillah. its Allahs oceans, only he has the power to conduct a cleanup operation this big.
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IslamicRevival
06-03-2010, 10:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
hey guys why do you want this hole blocked up?

all the oil theyve been stealing form iraq is literally being flushed down the drain. Subhanallah

I say Alhumdulillah. its Allahs oceans, only he has the power to conduct a cleanup operation this big.
Do you want to see wildlife animals contaminated and killed? Because that's what will happen if they don't stop it soon
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Candle
06-03-2010, 11:02 PM
Do you want to see wildlife animals contaminated and killed? Because that's what will happen if they don't stop it soon
Truly!

It does not seem right to blame the American people. They are upset at BP and more upset at their president for not doing anything. Their hearts are in this. Did anyone else see that American politician crying?
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espada
06-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Perhaps America is about to start paying for her sins.

It was bound to happen eventually.
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shuraimfan4lyf
06-03-2010, 11:21 PM
Hah! My dad was telling me how USA cries about global warming crap all the time. Now look at its own territory..Filled with oiled the water is and putting lives of coast residents into a misery.
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Trumble
06-04-2010, 01:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Candle
Truly!

It does not seem right to blame the American people. They are upset at BP and more upset at their president for not doing anything. Their hearts are in this. Did anyone else see that American politician crying?
I'm afraid 'the American people', their politicians, and their need for cheap petroleum, are as much to 'blame' as anyone else. It's easy to blame BP or Obama but when you drill offshore for oil such an incident is inevitable at some stage. Just as it's inevitable that somewhere among all these nuclear power stations everybody seems in a rush to build again now Chernobyl has more-or-less been forgotten... will be the next Chernobyl. People will be playing the blame game then, too.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 08:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
Do you want to see wildlife animals contaminated and killed? Because that's what will happen if they don't stop it soon
in all honesty, i dont care about the wildlife. worse disasters have happened in the past and Allah has taken care of them.
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Alpha Dude
06-04-2010, 08:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
I'm afraid 'the American people', their politicians, and their need for cheap petroleum, are as much to 'blame' as anyone else. It's easy to blame BP or Obama but when you drill offshore for oil such an incident is inevitable at some stage. Just as it's inevitable that somewhere among all these nuclear power stations everybody seems in a rush to build again now Chernobyl has more-or-less been forgotten... will be the next Chernobyl. People will be playing the blame game then, too.
Totally agreee. In the grand scheme of things, it's an unsustainable way of life. Unfortunately, the majority of people do not know any better.
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glo
06-04-2010, 02:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
The leak is much worse than what the media is showing. It is a threat to all of the Earth and not just to the USA,

Many here know I live among the Lakota and many of the Lakotah follow the Traditional Native Religion. Chief "Arvol Looking Horse" is the spiritual leader of the Lakotah who follow the Traditional Religion. The "Republic of Lakotah" has asked me to pass on the message from Chief Arvol asking all people of the world to pray for the healing of the damages this man made disaster is bringing upon the Earth.

Let us remember the Earth in our Du'as and pray that this damage be undone.
I have always respected the Native Americans (and indeed many native cultures) for their deep appreciation of and respect for the environment they live in and the creatures they share it with. They understand how deeply entwined our human lives are with the nature around us, and that we cannot exist without each other.

It's a lesson for those of us who feel the world is just there for us humans to use, abuse and consume without any care.
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Karina
06-04-2010, 02:32 PM
As we pray, we will fully understand that we are all connected. And that what we create can have lasting effects on all life.
Yes, so true.

:cry:

I'm so, so worried about this, we need more unbiased coverage in the media.

How anyone can say they don't care about the wildlife is foolish. The creatures and plants of the sea and the earth - they're all part of such a delicate ecosystem. If it's altered in any way it can have an enormous knock-on effect and be catastrophic for the rest of us.

Let's all throw our energies and our prayers into this, it's so important and it's all we can do for now.
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glo
06-04-2010, 02:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karina
How anyone can say they don't care about the wildlife is foolish. The creatures and plants of the sea and the earth - they're all part of such a delicate ecosystem. If it's altered in any way it can have an enormous knock-on effect and be catastrophic for the rest of us.

Let's all throw our energies and our prayers into this, it's so important and it's all we can do for now.
Well said, Karina.
And nice to see you around ... :)
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:00 PM
^you guys have it wrong, at the end of the day anyhow america looses this oil is a great repayment for the people they killed to steal it.

and i dont see how the entire world will be affected by it. sure its ruined the lvies of locals and maybe a few people living on the bordering states but your the people funding the wars and electing the governments that stole this oil. still the animals dont need to suffer, but i hope their deaths has caused you hypocrites some pain aswell.
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IslamicRevival
06-04-2010, 03:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
in all honesty, i dont care about the wildlife. worse disasters have happened in the past and Allah has taken care of them.
You don't care about Allah SWT's creation? SubhanAllah

Allah Azzawal states in the Quran: Assuredly the creation of the heavens and the earth is greater than the creation of mankind; but most of mankind know not.- Suran Ghafir, Verse 57

And the blind man and the seer are not equal, neither are those who believe and do good works (equal with) the evil-doer. Little do ye reflect! -Suran Ghafir, Verse 58

Contemplate on these beautiful verses and tell me again you dont care about the environment and wildlife.
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Karina
06-04-2010, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
^you guys have it wrong, at the end of the day anyhow america looses this oil is a great repayment for the people they killed to steal it.

and i dont see how the entire world will be affected by it. sure its ruined the lvies of locals and maybe a few people living on the bordering states but your the people funding the wars and electing the governments that stole this oil. still the animals dont need to suffer, but i hope their deaths has caused you hypocrites some pain aswell.
That's not very nice. ^o)
I wasn't talking about the politics of it all, just the devastating environmental impact......

Anyway, imagine the fish, seabirds and mammals that live in and around the seawater. They swallow oil or are unable to fly or swim due to the thick oil.
Creatures that eat other creatures from the sea or the coast die from shortage of food or oil-covered food. Other animals will feel the knock-on affect and experience a shortage in their staple foods. Other creatures may proliferate uncontrollably due a a shortage of pray. Those animals that do survive may have long-term symptoms or disabilities from ingesting the oil, causing problems in the long-run for their offspring-bearing abilities. Also, some species that are already endanagered may just be wiped out completely. The list goes on....

With respect, I think you're a little misguided to think the impact on wildlife is insignificant....
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Supreme
06-04-2010, 03:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
^you guys have it wrong, at the end of the day anyhow america looses this oil is a great repayment for the people they killed to steal it.
May I ask brother, which people did America kill to obtain the oil in the Gulf of Mexico? And how is it 'stealing'- the Gulf of Mexico is surely America's own backyard?
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Woodrow
06-04-2010, 03:29 PM
One thing that is overlooked. The Gulf of Mexico is the source of the Gulf stream The oil is not going to remain in US territorial waters for long it will flow out with the Gulf stream. Here is a map of the Gulf Stream and how the water heated in the Gull of Mexico flows.



Notice that the water from the Gulf of Mexico in the Gulf Current is the same Western Current the flows along the western coast of Africa.

Add to this the massive oil plumes that so far BP is denying the existence of:



This may prove to be the worse danger when it begins washing up on the shores of West Africa

Sadly this like most disasters will eventually hurt most the people who can least afford it.

Once again greed will hit the innocent the hardest. This Insha Allaah will be the wake up call that the world has to cease dependency on petroleum.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:30 PM
i never meant the impact on wildlife was insignificant, i meant the impcat of humans around the world.

whats done is done, im not saying lets go out of our way to harm the animals.

these animals are dying in the way of Allah swt. if i could help them i would. but one letter of complaint is not making a difference, hence it is fruitless to feel too sorry.
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IslamicRevival
06-04-2010, 03:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
^you guys have it wrong, at the end of the day anyhow america looses this oil is a great repayment for the people they killed to steal it.

and i dont see how the entire world will be affected by it. sure its ruined the lvies of locals and maybe a few people living on the bordering states but your the people funding the wars and
electing the governments that stole this oil. still the animals dont need to suffer, but i hope their deaths has caused you hypocrites some pain aswell.
This is pure stupidity of the highest calibre. You're contradicting yourself and veering waaaay off topic
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
May I ask brother, which people did America kill to obtain the oil in the Gulf of Mexico? And how is it 'stealing'- the Gulf of Mexico is surely America's own backyard?
the people of iraq. even if its not that same oil. they would loose profit overall hence accounting for the oil stole in iraq, if that makes sense.

the real loosers of money is the american government here.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
This is pure stupidity of the highest calibre. You're contradicting yourself and veering waaaay off topic
please point out my stupidity
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Supreme
06-04-2010, 03:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
the people of iraq. even if its not that same oil. they would loose profit overall hence accounting for the oil stole in iraq, if that makes sense.
Honestly, it doesn't make sense in the slightest.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Honestly, it doesn't make sense in the slightest.
the net decrease in oil is the same wether its the same oil taken from iraq or not
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IslamicRevival
06-04-2010, 03:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
please point out my stupidity
Did you even read my post? You're contradicting yourself left right and centre. I posted two verses of the Quran which state the total opposite of what you say and you're still set in your ways. Shocking
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tango92
06-04-2010, 03:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
Did you even read my post? You're contradicting yourself left right and centre. I posted two verses of the Quran which state the total opposite of what you say and you're still set in your ways. Shocking
read my replies. and for once when muslims get some good news lets not rain on the parade.
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Supreme
06-04-2010, 03:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
the net decrease in oil is the same wether its the same oil taken from iraq or not
Is it? Do you have any evidence for that?
read my replies. and for once when muslims get some good news lets not rain on the parade.
How on Earth is this good news?
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IslamicRevival
06-04-2010, 03:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
read my replies. and for once when muslims get some good news lets not rain on the parade.
You call this good news? :thumbs_do Lets leave it as that, Its a good job the overwhelming majority care about the earth

InshAllah, this oil leak which is inflicting damage to the environment/wildlife and peoples livelihoods will be stopped as soon as possible
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Dagless
06-04-2010, 03:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
the people of iraq. even if its not that same oil. they would loose profit overall hence accounting for the oil stole in iraq, if that makes sense.

the real loosers of money is the american government here.
The American government will gain money if anything. They can fine BP for every barrel of oil leaked.

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tango92
06-04-2010, 04:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Is it? Do you have any evidence for that?

how about using your brain?

How on Earth is this good news?
maybe not for terrorists like you, but certainly for muslims.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 04:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
The American government will gain money if anything. They can fine BP for every barrel of oil leaked.
the american government money is the money of the amrican economy. the economy is going to see a hit in the long term.

format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
You call this good news? :thumbs_do Lets leave it as that, Its a good job the overwhelming majority care about the earth

InshAllah, this oil leak which is inflicting damage to the environment/wildlife and peoples livelihoods will be stopped as soon as possible
its a good thing Allah is in charge and not you. there are always gonna be casualties with every victory, i say the loss of animal life is acceptable. not encouraged however.
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Ramadhan
06-04-2010, 05:12 PM
If I remember it correctly, there are also a couple of Qur'an ayahs about NOT to do destruction on the face of the earth. Basically the verses are command to protect the environment.

I can't remember which ayahs were those.
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IslamicRevival
06-04-2010, 05:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
there are always gonna be casualties with every victory, i say the loss of animal life is acceptable. not encouraged however.
You are going against what Islam teaches. Loss of life whether it be an animal is not acceptable. To not care is disgusting
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Supreme
06-04-2010, 05:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
maybe not for terrorists like you, but certainly for muslims.
Use my brain? If you've made an assertion without an ounce of proof or evidence, using my brain would actually involve questioning that assertion, which is exactly what I'm doing.

This isn't good news for anyone, and stop using foolish words like 'terrorist' about people on the internet- just because I do not subscribe to your inane theories and thoughts on how such a catastrophic envorinmental disaster actually is a good thing, it does not make me a terrorist.

K?
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Dagless
06-04-2010, 05:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
the american government money is the money of the amrican economy. the economy is going to see a hit in the long term.
Ok I agree that might be the case but it will be the little people who suffer.
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tango92
06-04-2010, 11:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Ok I agree that might be the case but it will be the little people who suffer.
you mean the people who support the terrorist government.

format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul
You are going against what Islam teaches. Loss of life whether it be an animal is not acceptable. To not care is disgusting
ouch, im a muslim brother here. harsh words. there will always be environmental damage and loss of animal life whatever humans do. building houses or even walking down the street your bound to step on an ant or two. ok the situations might not compare, but the idea is the same. im not condoning environmental damage, but you have to realise this is a war between us and the non muslims, there will be casualties with every battle.
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IslamicRevival
06-05-2010, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
ouch, im a muslim brother here. harsh words. there will always be environmental damage and loss of animal life whatever humans do. building houses or even walking down the street your bound to step on an ant or two. ok the situations might not compare, but the idea is the same. im not condoning environmental damage, but you have to realise this is a war between us and the non muslims, there will be casualties with every battle.
lol whats happened isnt a 'war', this is an environmental disaster. You're getting the wrong end of the stick here. Lets leave it as that
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Supreme
06-05-2010, 10:16 PM
A special cap funnelling oil from the Gulf of Mexico spill appears to be having some success, a US Coast Guard official has said.

Adm Thad Allen said 6,000 barrels of oil were captured in the first 24 hours after the procedure commenced on Thursday.

This represents between a third and a half of the estimated daily leakage since the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded and sank on 20 April, killing 11 workers.

Adm Allen said BP hoped to increase the amount captured in the next few days.

Speaking in Theodore, Alabama, he said the company was able to bring up 6,000 barrels of oil from the well in the "first full 24-hour cycle".

Asked if the proceedure was working, he said: "Yes, with caveats."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/us_...a/10246924.stm

So, some good news for once. But it is by no means over yet.
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Trumble
06-06-2010, 03:27 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92

ouch, im a muslim brother here. harsh words. there will always be environmental damage and loss of animal life whatever humans do. building houses or even walking down the street your bound to step on an ant or two. ok the situations might not compare, but the idea is the same. im not condoning environmental damage, but you have to realise this is a war between us and the non muslims, there will be casualties with every battle.
Not harsh enough. You are a fool of the first order.
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tango92
06-06-2010, 04:10 AM
^ why dont you whine so much about the amazon rainforest they chop down everyday or the masses of natural resource we literally send down the drain everyday. cause lets face it, you dont really care. but this is fresh and exiting so lets all pretend like were genuinely concerned.

Allah is in control, it was only by his mercy that he reclaimed the stolen property of the iraqi people.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 04:26 AM
This is a very tragic catastrophe for all mankind. The short term and long term environmental implications of this disaster are particularly depressing. This is not a matter of politics, Allah (SWT) knows best. Never should the (needless) destruction of Allah's (SWT) creatures and wildlife be celebrated but especially when something can be done.

I would just like to add all of you screaming "US is to blame rawr rawr rawr" really need to exercise some self control. BP is an entity of the United Kingdom! Unless the US, in all it's mighty stupidity, kicked the rig (in turn breaking it) then I fail to see how this is their fault. Furthermore, the argument that "they are oil hungry and therefore that's why it's their fault" is also laughable as I'm certain the US are not the soul consumers of the world's oil.

Seriously, is the US humanities universal scapegoat? Or is it just fashionable to hate them or something?

Injustice is a shade that suits no one =\
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Woodrow
06-06-2010, 04:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Dagless
Ok I agree that might be the case but it will be the little people who suffer.

True and not just poor Americans but the poor world wide. The oil business has no Nationality, it is international. A loss in one are simply results in higher prices in another. Roughly 20% of the worlds people control 80% of the world's wealth. Those 20% will not loose one penny, they will simply take more from the 80% of the world who can not afford to loose it.

Contrary to popular belief the world's richest people are not Americans.

Also some parts of the USA are among the World's poorest people. Pine Ridge Reservation is larger than many countries. With an area of 3468.86 sq mi (8984.306 km2) it is larger then 65 of the world's nations.

Compare with the 65 smallest nations at this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_total_area

But Pine Ridge has 90% unemployment, nearly half the people are with out running water of electricity, most of the area has no roads and there are only 2 or 3 paved roads. The average income is $2,600 per year.

Median income is $2,600 per year with 85% to 95% unemployment
* Infant mortality rate 300% higher than the U.S. national average
* Diabetes and Tuberculosis rates 800% higher t than the U.S. national average
* Elderly die each winter from hypothermia (freezing)
* At least 60% of the homes are severely substandard, without water, electricity, adequate insulation, and sewage systems
* School drop-out rate is 70%
* Recent reports state the average life expectancy is 45 years old while other reports state that it is 48 years old for men and 52 years old for women.

* With either set of figures, that's the shortest life expectancy for any community in the Western Hemisphere outside Haiti, according to The Wall Street Journal.
* And the list goes on and on….
SOURCE

This is how many Americans live, especially Native Americans living on a Rez. I live this life by choice, but for most I know it is a life forced upon them and they are the American's who will be the first to suffer from this oil spill. The wasichu will never loose a penny, but those with little will loose more, having the little taken by the wasichu to pay for the damage done in the Gulf.

America has very many poor people 12% (37,000,000) live below the poverty level. 1/3 of all Americans are considered poor with income far below average.

SOURCE



Yet, we are the people who will be the ones who are forced to pay.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 04:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
^ why dont you whine so much about the amazon rainforest they chop down everyday or the masses of natural resource we literally send down the drain everyday. cause lets face it, you dont really care. but this is fresh and exiting so lets all pretend like were genuinely concerned.

Allah is in control, it was only by his mercy that he reclaimed the stolen property of the iraqi people.
If you don't care-- you don't care.

And unfortunately you're feelings, ideals, standpoints so on in no way reflect that of anyone else.

Neither are you viable imterpeter of Allah's (SWT) will. You have no right to speak for the Lord and quantify/justify His (SWT) actions, indeed He (SWT) knows best.
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tango92
06-06-2010, 04:57 AM
^that is what im saying, i only care as much as is needed. the earth has withstood worse than this, come 3-4 yrs you wont even remember this day.

and the way same you are not an interpreter of Allaheither, but lets judge the empirical evidence. Allah thought it best flush down the americans oil. yet ive never heard any1 say Alhumdulillah in this thread yet.

do you think Allah has made a mistake in his plan?
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 05:13 AM
Tango92 I don't understand how you're reasoning any of this in your head.

I don't like argument for the sake of argument. And since you've thoroughly confused me with your invisible logic (for lack of a better word) I'm not even going to engage in debate.

Salaam.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 05:17 AM
Excuse the double post I meant infeasible not invisible (but I guess the latter works fine as well in a poetical sort of way?).
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Alpha Dude
06-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Furthermore, the argument that "they are oil hungry and therefore that's why it's their fault" is also laughable as I'm certain the US are not the soul consumers of the world's oil.
Except the US has higher usage rates despite being lower in population. See this graph just to see how huge the discrepancy is. The US uses an (estimated) 19.5 million barrels/day when the entire EU uses 14.3. China with its huge 1 billion population uses just 7.9 - less than half the US.

Why isn't China's higher despite the population? It's because not everyone there has a car to themselves. The US is home to the largest passenger vehicle market in the world. It's changing around the world though, with more and more people wanting to experience the 'American dream' of having huge gas guzzling vehicles. Other nations are increasing consumption but the US is still waaaay in the lead.

Despite making only 4.6 percent of the world population, the US oil consumption per day is something like 20% or more. Should make you think.

The US is and has been the biggest consumerism driven nation and its habits have been exported to the people around the world.

However, I don't agree with tango92. All attempt must be made to cap the oil well and we shouldn't hope for it to go wrong.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 10:31 AM
^^ Erm, riveting really, but let me ask; how does the oil consumption of the US make this disaster their fault? Seriously, that's flawed logic.

It's a problem yes and many like it have been bought to light but to say they are to blame for BP's mishap is totally unfair.

And comparing a minority world country (the US) to Chine- a majority world country (an emerging and developing economy) is ridiculous. You make it sound like the vast majority of the Chinese population actively choose not to own cars when the fact of the matter is Chine is extremely poverty stricken and choice has very little to do with it.

Facts and figure have to be considered in context.
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Alpha Dude
06-06-2010, 10:46 AM
Obviously, BP were at fault for the incident specifically. However, in the broader sense, this mishap is just a symptom of a larger problem. The root cause is the US's (and now the world at large) dependence on oil. Cheap easily accessable oil is running out. That's why they are out in the gulf in the first place.

You make it sound like the vast majority of the Chinese population actively choose not to own cars when the fact of the matter is Chine is extremely poverty stricken and choice has very little to do with it.
Well of course it's due to poverty. Making it sound like China do it out of choice was not my intention. Except you said:

Furthermore, the argument that "they are oil hungry and therefore that's why it's their fault" is also laughable as I'm certain the US are not the soul consumers of the world's oil.
Hence the need to show facts and figures that prove the US has the highest consumption levels on the Earth. An entire culture of materialistic consumption that was started by them, in fact.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 11:25 AM
Well unfortunately this thread is not concerned with the grand scheme of things-- it's about one issue and one issue only. And when posting in this thread I really don't care (for the sake of keeping on topic) if this event is a facet of any bigger picture: the fact of the matter is this oil spill is not the US's fault. That's what I'm debating here-- nothing else.

Obviously, BP were at fault for the incident specifically.

And what a pleasant surprise you agree with me.

However if we were to zoom out and take in the view from a far I agree with you-- but again that's not what's being discussed.
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Alpha Dude
06-06-2010, 11:37 AM
With all due respect, the 'tangent' (if you even see it that way) we are on is entirely relevent. The incident wouldn't have happened had it not been for our dependence on oil.
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Detritavore
06-06-2010, 11:55 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
With all due respect, the 'tangent' (if you even see it that way) we are on is entirely relevent. The incident wouldn't have happened had it not been for our dependence on oil.
Allah (SWT) knows best.

Salaam.
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Alpha Dude
06-06-2010, 11:58 AM
Wassalaam.

It was supposed to be the future, both for the United States and the world.

When the Deepwater Horizon oil platform sank more than a month ago, it may have taken down with it America's best hopes for remaining an oil-producing powerhouse while waterlogging the fastest-growing source of new oil in a world thirsty for fuel, analysts say.

Most newly discovered oil in the United States and the rest of the world in recent years has come from the deep ocean waters. The contribution to new U.S. oil output from depths of a mile or more in the Gulf of Mexico was expected to rise to 72 percent in 10 years before last month's catastrophic spill, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

But now President Obama has slammed the lid on new deep-water drilling activities for at least six months while his administration investigates what caused the incident and ratchets up regulation of the industry.

With the massive spill demonstrating that there is no foolproof way to safeguard the environment while drilling at such great depths - where no humans can reach and existing technology falls short - many analysts doubt that the oil spigot will ever be turned back on to more than a trickle in the U.S., despite the nation's heavy dependence on oil to fuel American lifestyles and to power economic growth.

"The BP spill is likely to throw a wrench" into plans in the U.S. and rest of the world to extract more and more oil from the deep oceans, said Richard Heinberg, an analyst at the Post Carbon Institute.

"Heavier regulations, and higher and more-expensive standards are on the way," he said. "Future deepwater projects could be delayed by years."

Mr. Heinberg said nations have increasingly plumbed the ocean depths in search for oil because "we've already chewed our way down through" most of the more readily available sources. "Theres very little onshore or shallow-water oil left to find. So down we go," he said.

The problem is, "as the industry is forced to drill deeper in ever more hostile environments, there are more things to go wrong; and when problems happen, they are harder to fix," he said. "An event such as the Deepwater Horizon explosion becomes more likely with every passing year, despite the continuing development of superior technology" that for the first time opened up the ocean depths in the past decade.

Even if the U.S. does not extend the regulatory ban on activity, oil companies will run into major financial obstacles in the future as insurance costs and liability claims soar, and investors balk at financing deep-water projects that they fear could go haywire like the BP venture, he said.

Gregory Lemaire-Smith, an associate energy analyst at Datamonitor, a business research group, said "any restriction in the exploration of offshore areas would be bad news" because of the critical role such drilling was expected to play in the future, not only in the U.S. but worldwide.

Offshore oil in the Gulf has become so essential to the U.S. - accounting for 40 percent of U.S. oil production overall - that he doubts Mr. Obama would make the drilling ban permanent despite the disaster and pressure from environmental groups.

In a sign that Mr. Obama remains reluctant to impose an all-out ban, the administration this week decided to continue allowing new drilling in the shallow waters of the Gulf of Mexico, where protection against disaster is more easily assured but less oil is available. It is allowing production to continue at deep-water wells that are already up and running.

"The state of the oil market doesnt allow the U.S. the luxury of closing offshore regions to activity - a fact that both political parties are all too aware of," Mr. Lemaire-Smith said.

Effects on projects would ripple worldwide if the U.S. permanently rules out further exploration for oil in deep waters, where oil companies already face high costs and risks to access the oil, he said.

Exploration has been expanding off the coasts of Brazil, Nigeria, Angola and other countries, and the International Energy Agency recently projected that within 10 years, deep-ocean waters would be supplying 40 percent of all oil extracted worldwide.

"If the accident in the Gulf of Mexico triggers a spiral effect, the impact on the global oil and gas offshore industry could be alarming," Mr. Lemaire-Smith said.

Analysts now expect the brakes to be applied to the burgeoning deep-water industry.

Environmental groups are inciting public outrage over the spill and calling on their allies in Congress and the administration to outlaw further deep-water drilling.

"The massive oil spill in the Gulf will end up halting further oil and gas exploration in the United States for years to come," said Brian Sussman, a San Francisco meteorologist and author of a book about climate change.

"The Gulf oil spill is the perfect 'out' for a presidential administration which relishes taking advantage of a crisis" to push its political agenda, he said.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...d-fuel-future/
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espada
06-06-2010, 02:33 PM
The problem with the U.S., in this situation, is their own bureaucratic system has made it much harder to send the government in to help solve/clean the mess up.

Apparently back in 1989, when the Exxon Valdez spill happened the U.S. navy assisted the clean-up and by all measures succeeded. This time there seems little to no action by the government.

Would the Chinese government let the same thing continue for a month and a half + before taking over the operation?

Not to say communist China is great but that's what you get in the U.S. It's almost as if they (current government) were more concerned about being perceived as socialist/communist by the people, then to throw all of that out and fix a national problem.

Allah knows best.
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shuraimfan4lyf
06-06-2010, 07:43 PM
So far, 22 M gallons has been released into the Gulf. At the rate of 1,050,000 gallons per day. Source :w:
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