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cat eyes
06-02-2010, 05:44 PM
:sl:

The prophet mohammad (saw) has laid out both rights equally for the man and woman and the man is not better then the woman and woman is not better then man. so what really does my head in is that even now men seem to believe a woman does not have this right and many other muslims believe it also even sisters.

it is clear from the holy Qur'an and sunnah a woman can divorce her husband if one of her basic needs is not met and YES she can divorce even if she has kids for that man because Allah will provide her with something better and NO she is not being selfish and blah blah blah! Allah allowed it. you have no right to make your judgments on what Allah has made halal.

is a woman only for having babies with and fufiling husbands needs only? why do they make out that only a husbands decision on a matter should be followed even if the wife is neglected and not listened to.

i feel that many women are being brain washed in to staying in a marriage that they are miserable in.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-02-2010, 07:32 PM
Aslaamu Alaaykum. . . .

I agree. . .
Its called Hypocrysy and people brainwashed by Hyprocrytes!
May Allaah protect the Brothers and Sisters Ameen

Wa Alaaykum Salaam
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dew of jannah
06-03-2010, 09:18 AM
why v think all the time if husband r wife do any mistake so only option left is to leavd marrige,v have to think that v r not angels who wont do any mistakes!i will leave the marrige & find somebody else is not the way but to work,In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."its not like this that ohhh u made mistake so i have right now to leave u,but any imam should sit between both n ask both of them the things,divorce is not like that u can take ur own decession.by islamic method if something is wrong tell ur husband in a nice manner,try hard might be u change ur husband n get reward frm Allah,still not sit with two elders specially IMAM n try to solve the matter.we people dnt knw about Islam n have creatde our own things even husband dnt have a straight right to give divorce to her wife,thats why in islam divorce is meant to be given in months time so they can solve their matters in between these 3 months,if Allah choosed them to be husband n wife so what makes us think that Allah wanted them to leave each other <i mean is ALLAH CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS>but by their own mistakes,SHAITAN SITS WITH HIS OTHER FELLOW MEMBERS & ASK THEM WHAT GREAT HAVE U DONE TODAY,1 SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM TO MISS HIS PRAY,SHAITAN DNT SEEMS TO BE THAT HAPPY,2ND SATAN FELLOW SAYS HE MADE 1 MUSLIM TO DO STEAL,STILL SATAN DNT SEEMS TO BE IMPRESSED,3RD SATAN FELLOW SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM HUSBAND & WIFE TO LEAVE EACH OTHER,SO SHAITAN GETS UP & CONGRATULATES HIM & SAYS U R MY TRUE FOLLOWER!!!WE HAVE MADE THINGS EASY FOR US,IF U STAY ALONE SHAITAN WILL CONTROL UR MIND MORE EASILY,satan will put ego in ur heart & mind,which makes the muslim heart black!!!ALLAH will help
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-03-2010, 09:46 AM
^in all honesty i think it's up to both the husband and wife to keep up a healthy marriage. i think what this thread is about is the "you have to love and obey your husband even in the case where he denies you your rights. no matter what wifey, its up to you to keep the marriage going. doesnt matter if you're husbands an idiot who treats you like a domestic animal, you are the back bone of marriage-ALWAYS!!!!!!" kind of mindset.
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cat eyes
06-03-2010, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by dew of jannah
why v think all the time if husband r wife do any mistake so only option left is to leavd marrige,v have to think that v r not angels who wont do any mistakes!i will leave the marrige & find somebody else is not the way but to work,In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."its not like this that ohhh u made mistake so i have right now to leave u,but any imam should sit between both n ask both of them the things,divorce is not like that u can take ur own decession.by islamic method if something is wrong tell ur husband in a nice manner,try hard might be u change ur husband n get reward frm Allah,still not sit with two elders specially IMAM n try to solve the matter.we people dnt knw about Islam n have creatde our own things even husband dnt have a straight right to give divorce to her wife,thats why in islam divorce is meant to be given in months time so they can solve their matters in between these 3 months,if Allah choosed them to be husband n wife so what makes us think that Allah wanted them to leave each other <i mean is ALLAH CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS>but by their own mistakes,SHAITAN SITS WITH HIS OTHER FELLOW MEMBERS & ASK THEM WHAT GREAT HAVE U DONE TODAY,1 SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM TO MISS HIS PRAY,SHAITAN DNT SEEMS TO BE THAT HAPPY,2ND SATAN FELLOW SAYS HE MADE 1 MUSLIM TO DO STEAL,STILL SATAN DNT SEEMS TO BE IMPRESSED,3RD SATAN FELLOW SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM HUSBAND & WIFE TO LEAVE EACH OTHER,SO SHAITAN GETS UP & CONGRATULATES HIM & SAYS U R MY TRUE FOLLOWER!!!WE HAVE MADE THINGS EASY FOR US,IF U STAY ALONE SHAITAN WILL CONTROL UR MIND MORE EASILY,satan will put ego in ur heart & mind,which makes the muslim heart black!!!ALLAH will help
there is a difference of opinion on that hadith btw. it is a weak hadith. Allah would not hate something he has made halal. if Allah hated something he would not make it halal.

i think people need to stop following weak hadiths when there is so many sound ones.
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cat eyes
06-03-2010, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
^in all honesty i think it's up to both the husband and wife to keep up a healthy marriage. i think what this thread is about is the "you have to love and obey your husband even in the case where he denies you your rights. no matter what wifey, its up to you to keep the marriage going. doesnt matter if you're husbands an idiot who treats you like a domestic animal, you are the back bone of marriage-ALWAYS!!!!!!" kind of mindset.
i think that might be an easy statement for an unmarried person to say sis. sure we can all say that we will stick by a man like that but in reality its very different and sometimes love is not enough to keep the marriage going strong. for example if both of them have kids but the husband is not providing sure you can not expect her to waste her life with a man like that when there might be somebody possibly better for her.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-03-2010, 01:21 PM
^ exactly my point.
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Asiyah3
06-03-2010, 02:05 PM
:sl:
It's permissible for a woman to ask for a divorce if she has a reason. And I also think that before all they should try to solve their problems and work it out insha'llah.

From Islam-qa:
"If there is a reason such as his falling short with regard to her rights, or his mistreatment of her, then there is nothing wrong with her asking for a divorce."

"If the man is not falling short with regard to his wife’s rights and he is not mistreating her, but she dislikes him so much that she cannot live with him and she is not giving him his rights, then they must both try to set things straight. If these attempts prove to be fruitless and their life reaches an impasse, then Allaah has given them a way out, which is khula’ – so she should return all the mahr that he gave her, and the man should be enjoined in that case to accept it and separate from her. "

Source: http://islam-qa.com/en/ref/91878/


Originally Posted by dew of jannah
In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."
That hadeeth is da’eef (weak) and and it is not valid to be quoted as evidence.
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Salahudeen
06-03-2010, 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by dew of jannah
why v think all the time if husband r wife do any mistake so only option left is to leavd marrige,v have to think that v r not angels who wont do any mistakes!i will leave the marrige & find somebody else is not the way but to work,In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."its not like this that ohhh u made mistake so i have right now to leave u,but any imam should sit between both n ask both of them the things,divorce is not like that u can take ur own decession.by islamic method if something is wrong tell ur husband in a nice manner,try hard might be u change ur husband n get reward frm Allah,still not sit with two elders specially IMAM n try to solve the matter.we people dnt knw about Islam n have creatde our own things even husband dnt have a straight right to give divorce to her wife,thats why in islam divorce is meant to be given in months time so they can solve their matters in between these 3 months,if Allah choosed them to be husband n wife so what makes us think that Allah wanted them to leave each other <i mean is ALLAH CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS>but by their own mistakes,SHAITAN SITS WITH HIS OTHER FELLOW MEMBERS & ASK THEM WHAT GREAT HAVE U DONE TODAY,1 SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM TO MISS HIS PRAY,SHAITAN DNT SEEMS TO BE THAT HAPPY,2ND SATAN FELLOW SAYS HE MADE 1 MUSLIM TO DO STEAL,STILL SATAN DNT SEEMS TO BE IMPRESSED,3RD SATAN FELLOW SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM HUSBAND & WIFE TO LEAVE EACH OTHER,SO SHAITAN GETS UP & CONGRATULATES HIM & SAYS U R MY TRUE FOLLOWER!!!WE HAVE MADE THINGS EASY FOR US,IF U STAY ALONE SHAITAN WILL CONTROL UR MIND MORE EASILY,satan will put ego in ur heart & mind,which makes the muslim heart black!!!ALLAH will help
I remember hearing in a khutba that the first hadith you quoted is weak, the imam said "Allah doesn't hate any halal thing, divorce might be the best thing to do, it might not be the best thing to do. It depends on the situation and circumstances".

There seems to exist a mentality that divorce is haraam among some people. Some Imam's even deny sister's divorces even though the husband is not fulfilling the rights and they say Allah hates divorce.This is not correct to go to extreme's in either direction, yes we shouldn't be relaxed about divorce but at the same time we should not be extreme and make it haraam. And this is what some Imam's do, they act as if divorce is haraam and regardless of how the woman is being treated they won't give a divorce. She could be getting abused by her husband at home and the imam would just continue to refuse her.

I've seen a disgusting bias towards men also when it comes to divorce, when my aunties friend was trying to get a divorce she had to visit 3 different masjid's before she met 1 that would give her a divorce and she had a valid reason but they refused. They told her husband, "keep her waiting for a bit it's upto you there's no rush"

If the sister has a valid reason such as the husband doesn't pray, provide for her. abuses her, takes her money, keeps her hostage in her house, then she can ask for a divorce on the basis that her husband is not fullfilling the rights that Allah has given her.

A marriage is sort of a contract, and part of that contract is that the husband has to provide food and clothing, if he is not fulfilling his end of the contract then the woman has a right to break the contract through divorce. Remember the woman who came to the prophet pbuh and said there is nothing wrong with her husband she just can not stand him and she is worried she will commit kuffar by staying with him, then she returned the dowry and got divorced.

The prophet pbuh didn't tell her to stay with him, and the only problem with the man was she couldn't stand him. and the prophet pbuh gave her a divorce through khula. So we shouldn't go to extremes in these things and say divorce is haraam. Divorce is allowed it's not a good thing but in certain circumstances it may be the only resort left.
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cat eyes
06-03-2010, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by dew of jannah
why v think all the time if husband r wife do any mistake so only option left is to leavd marrige,v have to think that v r not angels who wont do any mistakes!i will leave the marrige & find somebody else is not the way but to work,In a hadith reported by Abu Dawud, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) said, "Among lawful things, divorce is most hated by Allah."its not like this that ohhh u made mistake so i have right now to leave u,but any imam should sit between both n ask both of them the things,divorce is not like that u can take ur own decession.by islamic method if something is wrong tell ur husband in a nice manner,try hard might be u change ur husband n get reward frm Allah,still not sit with two elders specially IMAM n try to solve the matter.we people dnt knw about Islam n have creatde our own things even husband dnt have a straight right to give divorce to her wife,thats why in islam divorce is meant to be given in months time so they can solve their matters in between these 3 months,if Allah choosed them to be husband n wife so what makes us think that Allah wanted them to leave each other <i mean is ALLAH CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS>but by their own mistakes,SHAITAN SITS WITH HIS OTHER FELLOW MEMBERS & ASK THEM WHAT GREAT HAVE U DONE TODAY,1 SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM TO MISS HIS PRAY,SHAITAN DNT SEEMS TO BE THAT HAPPY,2ND SATAN FELLOW SAYS HE MADE 1 MUSLIM TO DO STEAL,STILL SATAN DNT SEEMS TO BE IMPRESSED,3RD SATAN FELLOW SAYS I MADE 1 MUSLIM HUSBAND & WIFE TO LEAVE EACH OTHER,SO SHAITAN GETS UP & CONGRATULATES HIM & SAYS U R MY TRUE FOLLOWER!!!WE HAVE MADE THINGS EASY FOR US,IF U STAY ALONE SHAITAN WILL CONTROL UR MIND MORE EASILY,satan will put ego in ur heart & mind,which makes the muslim heart black!!!ALLAH will help
you have raised some good points and i am not disagreeing with you but if you were to be this extreme when it comes to divorce then what happens if your mother or sister were having problems in

there marriage Allah forbid it. would you be making excuses for your sisters husband? and say so easily ''aah everybody makes mistakes'' what if the husband was telling your sister to disobey your

mother when it comes to modesty, would you say ''aah everybody makes mistakes'' divorce should not be sought here. you would obviously be tellling your sister/mother to leave that man and you

would find her somebody better. people make mistakes yes i know that but everybody wants the best when it comes to marriage and basically everything in life.
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dew of jannah
06-04-2010, 12:40 AM
Ya they shoud leave if husband is not doing his duties,ya but there r some stupid couples where diferent of opinion comes thy leave each other instead of siting down n listen to each other,why all the things r blaimed on husband only when there r so Many duties to be fulfiled by wife also what mountain brokes if wife help in household expences,it's not forbidden in Islam.some time what hapens is wife neglect so many duties.so u wil say divorce her no never sumtime it takes time to knw somebdy he or she is doing wrongv r human not robotsu r tryin to say is if husband leave any duty so wife shud divorce.western culture is full of divorces jus bcz of sometime couples have to forgive n put their ego heads down to solve matter.sometime what hapens is if husband r wife do mistake thy leave each other n go quite instead of working r atleast talk with each other.Islam is very easy sometime people have to use sence not anger.nobody gets married to get divorce.somebody else will be waiting for u is easy to say but if that new person will do 1 mistake so u won't be able to take n u will miss old person.I m not against divorce but how a person thinks n deals with her r his matter is my objection.turning away from marrige without try to sit with eachother r imam is the biggest mistake.human nature is that v always remember bad things why on the earth v forget tht my husband r my wife have given me love also.when shaitan takes over human brain then tht person actually dnt realise how m treating r behaving r thinking r doing.
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cat eyes
06-04-2010, 04:07 AM
listening to each other without anger yes and respecting each others belief when it comes to certain issues if they cant discuss something without anger then whats the point in being together

when aisha may Allah be pleased with her was accused of doing adultery, she was accused of doing such a major sin and the prophet (saw) before receiving revelations of the truth he was so soft and humble with her subhanAllah

now we see men complaining to there wife that shes not doing the basic chores around the house as if thats what being married is all about. i mean for god sake people need to start learning about this deen and start implementing it then every one will be happy.

lets stop being childish and get our iman together.
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dew of jannah
06-04-2010, 04:56 AM
1st of all v can't be like prophet n no women can be like aisha pbuh.ya no anger should be used in marrige but sometime if u r too soft next person take advantages aswell.the problem is v c other people mistakes 1st but not our own.if v see in our heart then v will knw that whatistakes v r doing.
Marige is not rocket science but love trust n support what makes people think that they can take their own decesions n leave their partner.shaitan takes control over the person easily when v r alone.it puts difrent things in head.it will make u think that u can treat ur partner as u want bcos person thinks I m right in then ego comes which is the sign of hypocrate.marrige is the most beautiful thing but v have made it sound like it's medical science
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Rhubarb Tart
06-06-2010, 03:45 PM
I think many people have said this. This is due to culture and ignorance on both the husband’s and wife’s part.

It is a shame some sisters don’t bother investigating their rights in Islam. How can a sister know on what grounds she is entitle to divorce if she does not educate herself?

Primary socialization from family also plays a part. I would not necessarily blame all on the husband, if he was brought up like that? Sometimes, the way a person interpret Islam is the way their family taught them Islam.

I know a sister that was married to a violent man, that violent man saw his father, uncles and grandfather treating his mother, aunts and grandmother the same way. In fact he thought what is doing was right according to Islam. He did get a shock though, because the sister he married was outside his culture and family and she did not take any of it. She divorced with force, first moved out from his house to her family’s house then waited for divorce. It took her three years!

Imagine if she was from his culture, had a quite personality and was taught the same thing from her family or even better if she was his cousin. Would she even get divorce? Would she even seek a divorce?

Anyways, my parents use this unfortunate incident on why I should NOT marry an Arab man. They all seem to have this stereotype that Arab men are abusive and oppress women especially their wives.

This stereotype might be true to extent because of culture and family etc. But I don’t like to look at the individual as a group. I rather see the individual as the individual responsible for his or her action. I think there is no excuse to be uneducated in your rights or be abusive with your rights even though culture and family may play a part to an extent. I hate these imans who take the man side so often especially when it is so obvious they the wife is entitled to a divorce.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-07-2010, 05:17 AM
Originally Posted by sweet106
I think many people have said this. This is due to culture and ignorance on both the husband’s and wife’s part.

It is a shame some sisters don’t bother investigating their rights in Islam. How can a sister know on what grounds she is entitle to divorce if she does not educate herself?

Primary socialization from family also plays a part. I would not necessarily blame all on the husband, if he was brought up like that? Sometimes, the way a person interpret Islam is the way their family taught them Islam.

I know a sister that was married to a violent man, that violent man saw his father, uncles and grandfather treating his mother, aunts and grandmother the same way. In fact he thought what is doing was right according to Islam. He did get a shock though, because the sister he married was outside his culture and family and she did not take any of it. She divorced with force, first moved out from his house to her family’s house then waited for divorce. It took her three years!

Imagine if she was from his culture, had a quite personality and was taught the same thing from her family or even better if she was his cousin. Would she even get divorce? Would she even seek a divorce?

Anyways, my parents use this unfortunate incident on why I should NOT marry an Arab man. They all seem to have this stereotype that Arab men are abusive and oppress women especially their wives.

This stereotype might be true to extent because of culture and family etc. But I don’t like to look at the individual as a group. I rather see the individual as the individual responsible for his or her action. I think there is no excuse to be uneducated in your rights or be abusive with your rights even though culture and family may play a part to an extent. I hate these imans who take the man side so often especially when it is so obvious they the wife is entitled to a divorce.
i think you will find that the more someone is culturally inclined, then they will treat there spouse worse. i find this comes with age (as old habits die hard) and where and how the person was raised. someone who is older and was raised back home deals with their wife differently to someone who was born and raised in a different culture.

not all arab men are bad. ive seen the good and the bad.
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Ummu Sufyaan
06-07-2010, 05:17 AM
Originally Posted by sweet106
I think many people have said this. This is due to culture and ignorance on both the husband’s and wife’s part.

It is a shame some sisters don’t bother investigating their rights in Islam. How can a sister know on what grounds she is entitle to divorce if she does not educate herself?

Primary socialization from family also plays a part. I would not necessarily blame all on the husband, if he was brought up like that? Sometimes, the way a person interpret Islam is the way their family taught them Islam.

I know a sister that was married to a violent man, that violent man saw his father, uncles and grandfather treating his mother, aunts and grandmother the same way. In fact he thought what is doing was right according to Islam. He did get a shock though, because the sister he married was outside his culture and family and she did not take any of it. She divorced with force, first moved out from his house to her family’s house then waited for divorce. It took her three years!

Imagine if she was from his culture, had a quite personality and was taught the same thing from her family or even better if she was his cousin. Would she even get divorce? Would she even seek a divorce?

Anyways, my parents use this unfortunate incident on why I should NOT marry an Arab man. They all seem to have this stereotype that Arab men are abusive and oppress women especially their wives.

This stereotype might be true to extent because of culture and family etc. But I don’t like to look at the individual as a group. I rather see the individual as the individual responsible for his or her action. I think there is no excuse to be uneducated in your rights or be abusive with your rights even though culture and family may play a part to an extent. I hate these imans who take the man side so often especially when it is so obvious they the wife is entitled to a divorce.
i think you will find that the more someone is culturally inclined, then they will treat there spouse worse. i find this comes with age (as old habits die hard) and where and how the person was raised. someone who is older and was raised back home deals with their wife differently to someone who was born and raised in a different culture.

not all arab men are bad. ive seen the good and the bad.
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