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aadil77
06-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Dozens killed at Afghan wedding


Most of the casualties were adult men and some were young children, Kandahar's governor said [AFP]

At least 40 people have been killed by a suicide bomber at a wedding party in Afghanistan's southern Kandahar province.

More than 70 people were injured when the blast occurred on Wednesday night as men sat down to eat at the celebration.


"A suicide bomber went inside the party where hundreds of people were sitting and blew himself up," a police official said of the blast in Arghandab district.

The explosion hit the wedding party about 9pm (1630 GMT) killing 40 people, including children, and wounding 74 more, Zemeri Bashary, the interior ministry spokesman, said.

Nato has said that the Taliban committed the strike, while the Taliban have said that Nato are behind the attack.

James Bays, Al Jazeera's correspondent in the capital Kabul, said: "Certainly we know what happened which is a very large explosion ... But we have no idea who was behind it.

"The Taliban say they are not responsible, saying they deplore it and condemn it in the strongest terms."

'Against humanity'

Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, condemned the attack, saying that was "against the whole of humanity".

Our correspondent said that Arghandab was once a fertile, agriculturally rich area, but it has changed to region of conflict in recent years, particularly in the last three years.

"It is an area that Nato concentrates on as they continue their operations in the Kandahar area," he said.

Toror Yalai Wesa, the governor of Kandahar, told Al Jazeera that a survivor had said a car bomb was the cause of the explosion.

"We don't have any women casualties. Most of them are adult men and some are young children," he said.

The man getting married was a policeman from one of the checkpoints in the area, Wesa said.

Mohammad Zanif, the groom's brother, told the AFP news agency that the groom had been wounded.

"There was an enormous explosion and as a result everyone there was either killed or injured," he said.

Relatives of the wounded gathered at an area hospital and local television appealed for people to donate blood to help treat the injured.

Statement of Taliban
Theunjustmedia contacted the official spokesmen of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Zabihullah Mujahid, to clarify two news which are circulating in the mainstream media. The first news, Wednesday, explosion at a wedding ceremony in Arghandab district of Kandahar province, and the second news, about executing of a 7 years old boy in Sangin district of Helmand province.

Theunjustmdia: Wednesday, a powerful explosion took place at a wedding ceremony in Nangahaan area in Arghandab district of Kandahar province, in which 45 people including women and children were martyred and 78 were wounded, can you please provide some information to what really happened and who is behind this.

Zabihullah Mujahid: The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Mujahideen in the region have conducted an investigation, which has revealed that this crime was committed by the invaders. The Mujahideen spoke to some of the survivals who were attending the wedding ceremony at the time it was attacked by the invaders. The survivals have mentioned that just before the bombing took place they heard spy planes hovering over the area, and soon after they heard a loud explosion, and then there was panic, there were dead and injured bodies every were. This cowardly act of the invaders will not deter the freedom loving Afghan's from their struggled to liberate their country from the invading forces.


Theunjustmdia: Dawoud Ahmadi the puppet provincial governor's spokesman is claiming that the Mujahideen have executed a 7-year-old boy in southern Afghanistan after accusing him of spying for the invaders and puppet government forces in the region.

Zabihullah Mujahid: This propaganda news illustrates the desperation of the invaders and their puppets, the assertion that the Mujahideen would execute a 7-year-old boy is ridiculous. The Mujahideen have too much honor to be committing such a cowardly act. The purpose of propagating this type of propaganda news is to defame the Mujahideen and to create animosity in the general public for the Mujahideen.







Not the first time they've done this:


US air strike wiped out Afghan wedding party, inquiry finds

(20)Tweet this (2)James Sturcke and agencies guardian.co.uk, Friday 11 July 2008 14.47 BST Article history
An injured Afghan boy is put on a stretcher at a hospital in Jalalabad city, Afghanistan. Photograph: Nesar Ahmad

A US air strike killed 47 civilians, including 39 women and children, as they were travelling to a wedding in Afghanistan, an official inquiry found today. The bride was among the dead.


Another nine people were wounded in Sunday's attack, the head of the Afghan government investigation, Burhanullah Shinwari, said.

Fighter aircraft attacked a group of militants near the village of Kacu in the eastern Nuristan province, but one missile went off course and hit the wedding party, said the provincial police chief spokesman, Ghafor Khan.

The US military initially denied any civilians had been killed.

Lieutenant Rumi Nielson-Green, a spokeswoman for the US-led coalition, told AFP today the military regretted the loss of any civilian life and was investigating the incident.

The US is facing similar charges over strikes two days earlier in another border area of Afghanistan.

The nine-member inquiry team appointed by the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, to look into the wedding party incident found only civilians had been killed in the attack.

"We found that 47 civilians, mostly women and children, were killed in the air strikes and another nine were wounded," said Shinwari, who is also the deputy speaker of Afghanistan's senate.

"They were all civilians and had no links with the Taliban or al-Qaida."

Around 10 people were missing and believed to be still under rubble, he said. The inquiry team were shown the bloodied clothes of women and children in a visit to the scene.

The Red Cross said 250 people had been killed or wounded in five days of military action and militant attacks in the past week.

The toll included the US-led air strikes and a suicide blast outside the Indian embassy in Kabul on Monday that killed more than 40 people, including two Indian envoys.

The UN said last month that nearly 700 Afghan civilians had lost their lives this year - about two-thirds in militant attacks and about 255 in military operations.

Karzai has pleaded repeatedly for western troops to take care not to harm civilians, and in December wept during a speech lamenting civilian deaths at the hands of foreign forces.
May Allah destroy these sick terrorist Kuffar who commit disgusting atrocities then blame the mujahideen
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aadil77
06-11-2010, 11:23 AM
what have the diehard US/NATO supporters got to say about this?

the retarded US terrorist forces have done this plenty of times before - when they see a large group of people walking towards a wedding or funeral, they assume its taliban and bomb the whole place to bits
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Rabi Mansur
06-11-2010, 01:03 PM
Nevertheless, suspicion fell on the insurgents because the family included a number of Afghan policemen, who are often targeted by the Taliban. The groom's brother and two of his cousins were in the police force, according to another cousin, Mohammad Alkozay.

Kandahar provincial Gov. Tooryalai Wesa said doctors at the city hospital had recovered ball bearings from the bodies of the dead. Militants often pack ball bearings and other metal into suicide vests to kill more victims.

"The Taliban are doing two things at once," Wesa told reporters. "On one side they target people who are in favor of the government. Then at the same time, they don't want people to know their real face."
This is from Yahoo News.

Targeting people who are in favor of the government seems to be their standard operating procedure. Maybe more information will come out later to get to the bottom of this one.

:wa:
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aadil77
06-11-2010, 03:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by rabimansur
This is from Yahoo News.

Targeting people who are in favor of the government seems to be their standard operating procedure. Maybe more information will come out later to get to the bottom of this one.

:wa:
whatever the target they'll do it in a way that does not kill off 40 other innocents and injure 70 others, this was not by the taliban otherwise they make it clear what the target was even if civilians do get affected

Zabihullah Mujahid is trusted spokesman for the taliban, plenty of western sources quote his statements but only when it seems to suit them

Zabihullah Mujahid: The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Mujahideen in the region have conducted an investigation, which has revealed that this crime was committed by the invaders. The Mujahideen spoke to some of the survivals who were attending the wedding ceremony at the time it was attacked by the invaders. The survivals have mentioned that just before the bombing took place they heard spy planes hovering over the area, and soon after they heard a loud explosion, and then there was panic, there were dead and injured bodies every were. This cowardly act of the invaders will not deter the freedom loving Afghan's from their struggled to liberate their country from the invading forces.


and also read my signature
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-11-2010, 06:18 PM
Subhaan`Allaah. . . . . . . .
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Life_Is_Short
06-11-2010, 07:50 PM
I saw this on press TV yestarday. imsad
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Here let me make it easier for you ignorant hypocrites to read


Theunjustmdia: Dawoud Ahmadi the puppet provincial governor's spokesman is claiming that the Mujahideen have executed a 7-year-old boy in southern Afghanistan after accusing him of spying for the invaders and puppet government forces in the region.

Zabihullah Mujahid: This propaganda news illustrates the desperation of the invaders and their puppets, the assertion that the Mujahideen would execute a 7-year-old boy is ridiculous. The Mujahideen have too much honor to be committing such a cowardly act. The purpose of propagating this type of propaganda news is to defame the Mujahideen and to create animosity in the general public for the Mujahideen.
Reply

Trumble
06-15-2010, 10:55 AM
Oh, please, quit the mindless abuse. You have no more evidence this Zabihullah Muhijad, who just seems to be some sort of Taliban propaganda mouthpiece, is telling the truth than the "puppet" (in your opinion) Provincial Governor's spokesman. Of course the Taliban would deny such an atrocity, just as with the attack on the wedding... if they admitted it even people like you might finally wake up.

Not everyone is as willing to go to such extreme lengths of denial to preserve the Tali-fan fantasy as you. Most Afghans (and Pakistanis) want as little to do with them as they do the US and NATO forces.
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 12:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
The Afghan accused of spying was a 7-year-old boy.
He was hanged from a tree in front of a crowd in Helmand's Sangin district, where more than a thousand British troops are based. He was the son and grandson of prominent tribal leaders, one of whom had recently spoken out against the Taliban, according to local journalists.
"A 7-year-old boy cannot be a spy,"said in a press conference in Kabul. "A 7-year-old boy cannot be anything but a 7-year-old boy, and therefore hanging or shooting to kill a 7-year-old boy ... is a crime against humanity."
who accused the taliban? was it the people? no it was a district puppet police officer, all part of the propaganda inline with david camerons visit to the country

they will commit the worst crimes to get people against the taliban and western govt fund these corrupted coppers

Qari Yousef Ahmaid, the Taleban spokesman, denied that any of his militants were involved. “The Taleban’s enemies are the Afghan Government and the foreign forces,” he said. “We never kill children. Everyone knows a seven-year-old can’t be a spy.”
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Taliban Hang 7-Year-Old Boy For Alleged Spying; Iranian-Made Bombs Seized In Kunduz Province


Taliban militants hanged a seven-year-old boy in Afghanistan’s southern province of Helmand. They claim that he was passing information to foreign soldiers, according to a Dari-language Afghan daily.
why keep quoting crap? just face the truth, the taliban issue statements specially for haters and propagandists like you
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Masuma
06-15-2010, 01:17 PM
Look, regarding the first news in OP, I don't know for sure, who attacked the wedding party, but do you know, NATO/US invaders have a habit of intentionally attacking a large group of people and later calling it a mistake!
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aadil77
06-15-2010, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
This is the key reason:
that is the 'key reason' given by the puppet controlled provincal governer, this is a war against taliban it makes sense to get support against them

Maybe you should read this again:

Dawoud Ahmadi the puppet provincial governor's spokesman is claiming that the Mujahideen have executed a 7-year-old boy in southern Afghanistan after accusing him of spying for the invaders and puppet government forces in the region.

Zabihullah Mujahid: This propaganda news illustrates the desperation of the invaders and their puppets, the assertion that the Mujahideen would execute a 7-year-old boy is ridiculous. The Mujahideen have too much honor to be committing such a cowardly act. The purpose of propagating this type of propaganda news is to defame the Mujahideen and to create animosity in the general public for the Mujahideen.
Reply

Masuma
06-15-2010, 03:22 PM
Sympathizers of US and NATO, read this and have some shame!




A Dossier on Civilian Victims of United States' Aerial Bombing of Afghanistan:
A Comprehensive Accounting [revised]
March 2002
When U.S. warplanes strafed [with AC-130 gunships] the farming village of Chowkar-Karez, 25 miles north of Kandahar on October 22-23rd,killing at least 93 civilians, a Pentagon official said, "the people there are dead because we wanted them dead." The reason? They sympathized with the Taliban1. When asked about the Chowkar incident, Rumsfeld replied, "I cannot deal with that particular village."2
A U.S. officer aboard the US aircraft carrier, Carl Vinson, described the use of 2,000 lb cluster bombs dropped by B-52 bombers: "A 2,000 lb. bomb, no matter where you drop it, is a significant emotional event for anyone within a square mile."3
Mantra of the U.S. mainstream corporate media : "the report cannot be independently verified"
"..shameful dependence on and uncritical acceptance of Pentagon handouts instead of substantial, critical coverage of the ground situation in Afghanistan. The US corporate media seems to be muting any talk of civilian casualties first by framing any such news with "Taliban claims that…." And then happily putting the matter to rest with Pentagon spokesman…" "
[Joel Lee, Hyderabad, Znet Inter Active]
"When people decry civilian deaths caused by the U.S. government, they're aiding propaganda efforts. In sharp contrast, when civilian deaths are caused by bombers who hate America, the perpetrators are evil and those deaths are tragedies.
When they put bombs in cars and kill people, they're uncivilized killers. When we put bombs on missiles and kill people, we're upholding civilized values. When they kill, they're terrorists. When we kill, we're striking against terror."4
Abstract. What causes the documented high level of civilian casualties -- 3,000 - 3,400 civilian deaths -- in the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan? The explanation is the apparent willingness of U.S. military strategists to fire missiles into and drop bombs upon, heavily populated areas of Afghanistan. A legacy of the ten years of civil war during the 80s is that many military garrisons and facilities are located in urban areas where the Soviet-backed government had placed them since they could be better protected there from attacks by the rural mujahideen. Successor Afghan governments inherited these emplacements. To suggest that the Taliban used 'human shields' is more revealing of the historical amnesia and racism of those making such claims, than of Taliban deeds. Anti-aircraft emplacements will naturally be placed close by ministries, garrisons, communications facilities, etc.. A heavy bombing onslaught must necessarily result in substantial numbers of civilian casualties simply by virtue of proximity to 'military targets', a reality exacerbated by the admitted occasional poor targeting, human error, equipment malfunction, and the irresponsible use of out-dated Soviet maps. But, the critical element remains the very low value put upon Afghan civilian lives by U.S. military planners and the political elite, as clearly revealed by U.S. willingness to bomb heavily populated regions. Current Afghan civilian lives must and will be sacrificed in order to [possibly] protect future American lives. Actions speak, and words [can] obscure: the hollowness of pious pronouncements by Rumsfeld, Rice and the compliant corporate media about the great care taken to minimize collateral damage is clear for all to see. Other U.S. bombing targets hit are impossible to 'explain' in terms other than the U.S. seeking to inflict maximum pain upon Afghan society and perceived 'enemies': the targeted bombing of the Kajakai dam and other power stations, radio stations, the Kabul telephone exchange, the Al Jazeera Kabul office, trucks and buses filled with fleeing refugees, and the numerous attacks upon civilian trucks carrying fuel oil. Indeed, the bombing of Afghan civilian infrastructure parallels that of the Afghan civilian.
This dossier makes six major points. First, the U.S. bombing upon Afghanistan has been a low bombing intensity, high civilian casualty campaign [in both absolute terms and relative to other U.S. air campaigns]. Secondly, this has happened notwithstanding the far greater accuracy of the weapons because of U.S. military planners decisions to employ powerful weapons in populated regions and to bomb what are dubious military targets. Thirdly, the U.S. mainstream corporate media has been derelict in its non-reporting of civilian casualties when ample evidence existed from foreign places that the U.S. air war upon Afghanistan was creating such casualties in large numbers. Fourthly, the decision by U.S. military planners to execute such a bombing campaign reveals and reflects the differential values they place upon Afghan and American lives. Fifth, this report counters the dangerous notion that the United States can henceforth wage a war and only kill enemy combatants. Sixth, the U.S. bombing campaign has targeted numerous civilian facilities and the heavy use of cluster bombs, will have a lasting legacy born by one of the poorest, most desperate peoples of our world. In sum, though not intended to be, the U.S. bombing campaign which began on the evening of October 7th, has been a war upon the people, the homes, the farms and the villages of Afghanistan, as well as upon the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
For Feriba, Mohammed, Assaduleh, Rukia and the countless others who may now be counted and remembered, and not vanish quietly as "could not be verified independently."
And much more here! SOURCE
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Masuma
06-15-2010, 03:43 PM
The above dossier is by
Professor Marc W. Herold
Ph.D., M.B.A., B.Sc.
Departments of Economics and Women's Studies
McConnell Hall
Whittemore School of Business & Economics
University of New Hampshire
Durham, N.H. 03824, U.S.A.
FAX : 603 862-3383
Phone: 603 862-3375

Where we Muslims are so concerned and engrossed in our own lives, at least someone stands up and speaks for the truth! :cry:






For Feriba, Mohammed, Assaduleh, Rukia and the countless others who may now be counted and remembered, and not vanish quietly as "could not be verified independently."

...and for those victims who once had a family and life, but US snatched it away from so ruthlessly!...for those who perished and murdered, but now their name could at least be taken and remembered...to their memory...




:cry:
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Matamoros
06-16-2010, 10:21 AM
If terrorists and their Taliban supporters, who provided safe havens for terrorists, had not been permitted terrorists to do what they have done to Afghanistan then no outside forces would need ever to be in Afghanistan.
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Matamoros
06-16-2010, 10:35 AM
Sympathizers of US and NATO, read this and have some shame! ..I could spend years on this site telling Moors the same ...Sympathizers of the Islamic Revolution and Muslim Expansion, read this and have some shame! What?... do you think Islamic ideals hasn't caused suffering and death indiscriminately over the past 1400 years not for the sake of a God??

+
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aadil77
06-16-2010, 12:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
If terrorists and their Taliban supporters, who provided safe havens for terrorists, had not been permitted terrorists to do what they have done to Afghanistan then no outside forces would need ever to be in Afghanistan.
Done what to afghanistan? Which terrorists are you on about?
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Argamemnon
06-16-2010, 12:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
Oh, please, quit the mindless abuse. You have no more evidence this Zabihullah Muhijad, who just seems to be some sort of Taliban propaganda mouthpiece, is telling the truth than the "puppet" (in your opinion) Provincial Governor's spokesman. Of course the Taliban would deny such an atrocity, just as with the attack on the wedding... if they admitted it even people like you might finally wake up.

Not everyone is as willing to go to such extreme lengths of denial to preserve the Tali-fan fantasy as you. Most Afghans (and Pakistanis) want as little to do with them as they do the US and NATO forces.
When will you learn that the terrorists are westerners and not Muslims? Muslims are defending their lands, if that's terrorism I can assure you that all 1,5 billion Muslims including myself are terrorists.
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Argamemnon
06-16-2010, 12:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Sympathizers of US and NATO, read this and have some shame! ..I could spend years on this site telling Moors the same ...Sympathizers of the Islamic Revolution and Muslim Expansion, read this and have some shame! What?... do you think Islamic ideals hasn't caused suffering and death indiscriminately over the past 1400 years not for the sake of a God??

+
The facts differ greatly from the western media propaganda you have been brainwashed into believing. Taliban had offered to extradite Bin Ladin, but the U.S. refused. The war against Afghanistan had been planned prior to 9/11. It's about pipelines and natural resources.
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Argamemnon
06-16-2010, 12:56 PM
The Afghanistan War was Planned
Months Before the 9/11 Attacks


http://www.waketheflockup.com/WRHART...replanned.html
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Masuma
06-16-2010, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Sympathizers of US and NATO, read this and have some shame! ..I could spend years on this site telling Moors the same ...Sympathizers of the Islamic Revolution and Muslim Expansion, read this and have some shame! What?... do you think Islamic ideals hasn't caused suffering and death indiscriminately over the past 1400 years not for the sake of a God??

+
You think your making some sense here?! Islamic terrorism is just a media coined word, it doesn't actually exists! And if you'll argue for long, then will tell you how or why the term doesn't exist?

Now talking about killing and stuff in the name of God, you seems to have just a biased view on all this!
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Masuma
06-16-2010, 03:27 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
The facts differ greatly from the western media propaganda you have been brainwashed into believing. Taliban had offered to extradite Bin Ladin, but the U.S. refused. The war against Afghanistan had been planned prior to 9/11. It's about pipelines and natural resources.
Trumble and Matamoros.
Learn something first from this brother!

Talibans are defending their country, and if you call them as terrorists, then all people who ever fought for the freedom of their country are terrorists!
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Supreme
06-16-2010, 04:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
When will you learn that the terrorists are westerners and not Muslims? Muslims are defending their lands, if that's terrorism I can assure you that all 1,5 billion Muslims including myself are terrorists.
When will you learn that terrorist is a relative term and to most people on the planet, including a lot of Muslims, the Taliban are synonymous with the word 'terrorist'.
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Trumble
06-16-2010, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
When will you learn that the terrorists are westerners and not Muslims? Muslims are defending their lands, if that's terrorism I can assure you that all 1,5 billion Muslims including myself are terrorists.
More fairy stories for the gullible Tali-fan. The Taliban aren't 'defending their lands' any more than they are 'defending their country'. They are trying to impose their will on people, WHO ARE JUST AS MUSLIM AS THEY ARE, who just want to be left alone to look after their lands free of interference from anybody.
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kite runner
06-16-2010, 08:43 PM
Astagfurullah!!
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Matamoros
06-16-2010, 09:16 PM
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
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Al-Indunisiy
06-16-2010, 10:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
Are you one of those nutty conspiracy theorists?
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aadil77
06-16-2010, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
Islam is a way of life :)
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جوري
06-16-2010, 11:31 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
we see christianity as a paganist cult of blood thirsty war mongers, illogical beliefs and superstitious practices.. what is your point? Should your understanding of Islam (or lack thereof) have some sort of relevance to the topic, the individuals here or the world at large?

funny stuff!
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Ramadhan
06-17-2010, 04:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Sympathizers of US and NATO, read this and have some shame! ..I could spend years on this site telling Moors the same ...Sympathizers of the Islamic Revolution and Muslim Expansion, read this and have some shame! What?... do you think Islamic ideals hasn't caused suffering and death indiscriminately over the past 1400 years not for the sake of a God??

+
Uh... Christian kingdoms, countries and missionaries killed more people in its 2,000 history than the rest of the world combined... by far.
Reply

جوري
06-17-2010, 04:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
Uh... Christian kingdoms, countries and missionaries killed more people in its 2,000 history than the rest of the world combined... by far.
WONDERFUL EVENTS THAT TESTIFY TO GOD'S DIVINE GLORY"Listed are only events that solely occurred on command of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)
Ancient Pagans


  • As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
  • Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
  • Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
  • Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]
  • Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]
  • Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
    According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
  • In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
  • In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]
  • The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
    [DO19-25]

Mission


  • Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]
  • Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]
  • Battle of Belgrad 1456: 80,000 Turks slaughtered. [DO235]
  • 15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Victims unknown. [DO30]
  • 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
    Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Crusades (1095-1291)


  • First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]
  • Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]
  • 9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]
  • Until Jan 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]
  • after 6/3/98 Antiochia (then turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women & children) killed. [WW32-35]
    Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]
  • Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]
  • Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (jewish, muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40]
    (In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude")
  • The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]
  • Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". One million victims of the first crusade alone. [WW41]
  • Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. 200,000 heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]
  • Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]
  • Rest of Crusades in less detail: until the fall of Akkon 1291 probably 20 million victims (in the Holy land and Arab/Turkish areas alone). [WW224] Note: All figures according to contemporary (Christian) chroniclers.

Heretics


  • Already in 385 C.E. the first Christians, the Spanish Priscillianus and six followers, were beheaded for heresy in Trier/Germany [DO26]
  • Manichaean heresy: a crypto-Christian sect decent enough to practice birth control (and thus not as irresponsible as faithful Catholics) was exterminated in huge campaigns all over the Roman empire between 372 C.E. and 444 C.E. Numerous thousands of victims. [NC]
  • Albigensians: the first Crusade intended to slay other Christians. [DO29]
    The Albigensians (cathars = Christians allegedly that have all rarely sucked) viewed themselves as good Christians, but would not accept roman Catholic rule, and taxes, and prohibition of birth control. [NC]
    Begin of violence: on command of pope Innocent III (greatest single pre-nazi mass murderer) in 1209. Bezirs (today France) 7/22/1209 destroyed, all the inhabitants were slaughtered. Victims (including Catholics refusing to turn over their heretic neighbours and friends) 20,000-70,000. [WW179-181]
  • Carcassonne 8/15/1209, thousands slain. Other cities followed. [WW181]
  • subsequent 20 years of war until nearly all Cathars (probably half the population of the Languedoc, today southern France) were exterminated. [WW183]
  • After the war ended (1229) the Inquisition was founded 1232 to search and destroy surviving/hiding heretics. Last Cathars burned at the stake 1324. [WW183]
  • Estimated one million victims (cathar heresy alone), [WW183]
  • Other heresies: Waldensians, Paulikians, Runcarians, Josephites, and many others. Most of these sects exterminated, (I believe some Waldensians live today, yet they had to endure 600 years of persecution) I estimate at least hundred thousand victims (including the Spanish inquisition but excluding victims in the New World).
  • Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada alone allegedly responsible for 10,220 burnings. [DO28]
  • John Huss, a critic of papal infallibility and indulgences, was burned at the stake in 1415. [LI475-522]
  • University professor B.Hubmaier burned at the stake 1538 in Vienna. [DO59]
  • Giordano Bruno, Dominican monk, after having been incarcerated for seven years, was burned at the stake for heresy on the Campo dei Fiori (Rome) on 2/17/1600.

Witches


  • from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
  • in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged. [WV]
  • incomplete list of documented cases:
    The Burning of Witches - A Chronicle of the Burning Times

Religious Wars


  • 15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]
  • 1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]
  • 1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain. [DO31]
  • 1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]
  • 17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]
  • 17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]
  • 17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Jews


  • Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians. Number of Jews slain unknown.
  • In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]
  • 17. Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]
  • The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]
  • First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]
  • Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]
  • Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90. [DO40]
  • Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]
  • 1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]
  • 1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]
  • 1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]
  • 1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]
  • 1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]
  • 1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]
  • 1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.
  • 1492: In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]
  • 1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. [DO43]

(I feel sick ...) this goes on and on, century after century, right into the kilns of Auschwitz.
Native Peoples


  • Beginning with Columbus (a former slave trader and would-be Holy Crusader) the conquest of the New World began, as usual understood as a means to propagate Christianity.
  • Within hours of landfall on the first inhabited island he encountered in the Caribbean, Columbus seized and carried off six native people who, he said, "ought to be good servants ... [and] would easily be made Christians, because it seemed to me that they belonged to no religion." [SH200]
    While Columbus described the Indians as "idolators" and "slaves, as many as [the Crown] shall order," his pal Michele de Cuneo, Italian nobleman, referred to the natives as "beasts" because "they eat when they are hungry," and made love "openly whenever they feel like it." [SH204-205]
  • On every island he set foot on, Columbus planted a cross, "making the declarations that are required" - the requerimiento - to claim the ownership for his Catholic patrons in Spain. And "nobody objected." If the Indians refused or delayed their acceptance (or understanding), the requerimiento continued:

I certify to you that, with the help of God, we shall powerfully enter in your country and shall make war against you ... and shall subject you to the yoke and obedience of the Church ... and shall do you all mischief that we can, as to vassals who do not obey and refuse to receive their lord and resist and contradict him." [SH66]
  • Likewise in the words of John Winthrop, first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony: "justifieinge the undertakeres of the intended Plantation in New England ... to carry the Gospell into those parts of the world, ... and to raise a Bulworke against the kingdome of the Ante-Christ." [SH235]
  • In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of "the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." [SH109,238]
  • On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead. [SH204]
  • The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
  • As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous." [SH69]
  • The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell." [SH70]
  • What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
    "The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." [SH72]
    Or, on another occasion:
    "The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs." [SH83]
  • The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". [SH72-73] "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated." [SH75]
  • "And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitln [Mexico city] was next." [SH75]
  • Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
  • "When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead." [SH95]

Of course no different were the founders of what today is the US of Amerikkka.

  • Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among (north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Warres are farre less bloudy...", so that there usually was "no great slawter of nether side". Indeed, "they might fight seven yeares and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians usually spared women and children. [SH111]
  • In the spring of 1612 some English colonists found life among the (generally friendly and generous) natives attractive enough to leave Jamestown - "being idell ... did runne away unto the Indyans," - to live among them (that probably solved a sex problem).
    "Governor Thomas Dale had them hunted down and executed: 'Some he apointed (sic) to be hanged Some burned Some to be broken upon wheles, others to be staked and some shott to deathe'." [SH105] Of course these elegant measures were restricted for fellow englishmen: "This was the treatment for those who wished to act like Indians. For those who had no choice in the matter, because they were the native people of Virginia" methods were different: "when an Indian was accused by an Englishman of stealing a cup and failing to return it, the English response was to attack the natives in force, burning the entire community" down. [SH105]
  • On the territory that is now Massachusetts the founding fathers of the colonies were committing genocide, in what has become known as the "Peqout War". The killers were New England Puritan Christians, refugees from persecution in their own home country England.
  • When however, a dead colonist was found, apparently killed by Narragansett Indians, the Puritan colonists wanted revenge. Despite the Indian chief's pledge they attacked.
    Somehow they seem to have lost the idea of what they were after, because when they were greeted by Pequot Indians (long-time foes of the Narragansetts) the troops nevertheless made war on the Pequots and burned their villages.
    The puritan commander-in-charge John Mason after one massacre wrote: "And indeed such a dreadful Terror did the Almighty let fall upon their Spirits, that they would fly from us and run into the very Flames, where many of them perished ... God was above them, who laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to Scorn, making them as a fiery Oven ... Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the Place with dead Bodies": men, women, children. [SH113-114]
  • So "the Lord was pleased to smite our Enemies in the hinder Parts, and to give us their land for an inheritance". [SH111].
  • Because of his readers' assumed knowledge of Deuteronomy, there was no need for Mason to quote the words that immediately follow:
    "Thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou shalt utterly destroy them..." (Deut 20)
  • Mason's comrade Underhill recalled how "great and doleful was the bloody sight to the view of the young soldiers" yet reassured his readers that "sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents". [SH114]
  • Other Indians were killed in successful plots of poisoning. The colonists even had dogs especially trained to kill Indians and to devour children from their mothers breasts, in the colonists' own words: "blood Hounds to draw after them, and Mastives to seaze them." (This was inspired by spanish methods of the time)
    In this way they continued until the extermination of the Pequots was near. [SH107-119]
  • The surviving handful of Indians "were parceled out to live in servitude. John Endicott and his pastor wrote to the governor asking for 'a share' of the captives, specifically 'a young woman or girle and a boy if you thinke good'." [SH115]
  • Other tribes were to follow the same path.
  • Comment the Christian exterminators: "God's Will, which will at last give us cause to say: How Great is His Goodness! and How Great is his Beauty!"
    "Thus doth the Lord Jesus make them to bow before him, and to lick the Dust!" [TA]
  • Like today, lying was OK to Christians then. "Peace treaties were signed with every intention to violate them: when the Indians 'grow secure uppon (sic) the treatie', advised the Council of State in Virginia, 'we shall have the better Advantage both to surprise them, & cutt downe theire Corne'." [SH106]
  • In 1624 sixty heavily armed Englishmen cut down 800 defenseless Indian men, women and children. [SH107]
  • In a single massacre in "King Philip's War" of 1675 and 1676 some "600 Indians were destroyed. A delighted Cotton Mather, revered pastor of the Second Church in Boston, later referred to the slaughter as a 'barbeque'." [SH115]
  • To summarize: Before the arrival of the English, the western Abenaki people in New Hampshire and Vermont had numbered 12,000. Less than half a century later about 250 remained alive - a destruction rate of 98%. The Pocumtuck people had numbered more than 18,000, fifty years later they were down to 920 - 95% destroyed. The Quiripi-Unquachog people had numbered about 30,000, fifty years later they were down to 1500 - 95% destroyed. The Massachusetts people had numbered at least 44,000, fifty years later barely 6000 were alive - 81% destroyed. [SH118] These are only a few examples of the multitude of tribes living before Christian colonists set their foot on the New World. All this was before the smallpox epidemics of 1677 and 1678 had occurred. And the carnage was not over then.
  • All the above was only the beginning of the European colonization, it was before the frontier age actually had begun.
  • A total of maybe more than 150 million Indians (of both Americas) were destroyed in the period of 1500 to 1900, as an average two thirds by smallpox and other epidemics, that leaves some 50 million killed directly by violence, bad treatment and slavery.
  • In many countries, such as Brazil, and Guatemala, this continues even today.

More Glorious events in US history


  • Reverend Solomon Stoddard, one of New England's most esteemed religious leaders, in "1703 formally proposed to the Massachusetts Governor that the colonists be given the financial wherewithal to purchase and train large packs of dogs 'to hunt Indians as they do bears'." [SH241]
  • Massacre of Sand Creek, Colorado 11/29/1864. Colonel John Chivington, a former Methodist minister and still elder in the church ("I long to be wading in gore") had a Cheyenne village of about 600, mostly women and children, gunned down despite the chiefs' waving with a white flag: 400-500 killed.
    From an eye-witness account: "There were some thirty or forty squaws collected in a hole for protection; they sent out a little girl about six years old with a white flag on a stick; she had not proceeded but a few steps when she was shot and killed. All the squaws in that hole were afterwards killed ..." [SH131]
    More gory details.
  • By the 1860s, "in Hawai'i the Reverend Rufus Anderson surveyed the carnage that by then had reduced those islands' native population by 90 percent or more, and he declined to see it as tragedy; the expected total die-off of the Hawaiian population was only natural, this missionary said, somewhat equivalent to 'the amputation of diseased members of the body'." [SH244]

20th Century Church Atrocities


  • Catholic extermination camps
    Surpisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveli, a practising Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!

    In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdient der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them. [MV]
  • Catholic terror in Vietnam
    In 1954 Vietnamese freedom fighters - the Viet Minh - had finally defeated the French colonial government in North Vietnam, which by then had been supported by U.S. funds amounting to more than $2 billion. Although the victorious assured religious freedom to all (most non-buddhist Vietnamese were Catholics), due to huge anticommunist propaganda campaigns many Catholics fled to the South. With the help of Catholic lobbies in Washington and Cardinal Spellman, the Vatican's spokesman in U.S. politics, who later on would call the U.S. forces in Vietnam "Soldiers of Christ", a scheme was concocted to prevent democratic elections which could have brought the communist Viet Minh to power in the South as well, and the fanatic Catholic Ngo Dinh Diem was made president of South Vietnam. [MW16ff]

    Diem saw to it that U.S. aid, food, technical and general assistance was given to Catholics alone, Buddhist individuals and villages were ignored or had to pay for the food aids which were given to Catholics for free. The only religious denomination to be supported was Roman Catholicism.

    The Vietnamese McCarthyism turned even more vicious than its American counterpart. By 1956 Diem promulgated a presidential order which read:

    • "Individuals considered dangerous to the national defense and common security may be confined by executive order, to a concentration camp."

Supposedly to fight communism, thousands of buddhist protesters and monks were imprisoned in "detention camps." Out of protest dozens of buddhist teachers - male and female - and monks poured gasoline over themselves and burned themselves. (Note that Buddhists burned themselves: in comparison Christians tend to burn others). Meanwhile some of the prison camps, which in the meantime were filled with Protestant and even Catholic protesters as well, had turned into no-nonsense death camps. It is estimated that during this period of terror (1955-1960) at least 24,000 were wounded - mostly in street riots - 80,000 people were executed, 275,000 had been detained or tortured, and about 500,000 were sent to concentration or detention camps. [MW76-89].

To support this kind of government in the next decade thousands of American GI's lost their life....
  • Rwanda Massacres
    In 1994 in the small african country of Rwanda in just a few months several hundred thousand civilians were butchered, apparently a conflict of the Hutu and Tutsi ethnic groups.

For quite some time I heard only rumours about Catholic clergy actively involved in the 1994 Rwanda massacres. Odd denials of involvement were printed in Catholic church journals, before even anybody had openly accused members of the church.
Then, 10/10/96, in the newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany - a station not at all critical to Christianity - the following was stated:
"Anglican as well as Catholic priests and nuns are suspect of having actively participated in murders. Especially the conduct of a certain Catholic priest has been occupying the public mind in Rwanda's capital Kigali for months. He was minister of the church of the Holy Family and allegedly murdered Tutsis in the most brutal manner. He is reported to have accompanied marauding Hutu militia with a gun in his cowl. In fact there has been a bloody slaughter of Tutsis seeking shelter in his parish. Even two years after the massacres many Catholics refuse to set foot on the threshold of their church, because to them the participation of a certain part of the clergy in the slaughter is well established. There is almost no church in Rwanda that has not seen refugees - women, children, old - being brutally butchered facing the crucifix.

According to eyewitnesses clergymen gave away hiding Tutsis and turned them over to the machetes of the Hutu militia.
In connection with these events again and again two Benedictine nuns are mentioned, both of whom have fled into a Belgian monastery in the meantime to avoid prosecution. According to survivors one of them called the Hutu killers and led them to several thousand people who had sought shelter in her monastery. By force the doomed were driven out of the churchyard and were murdered in the presence of the nun right in front of the gate. The other one is also reported to have directly cooperated with the murderers of the Hutu militia. In her case again witnesses report that she watched the slaughtering of people in cold blood and without showing response. She is even accused of having procured some petrol used by the killers to set on fire and burn their victims alive..." [S2]
As can be seen from these events, to Christianity the Dark Ages never come to an end....
References:

[DA] K.Deschner, Abermals krhte der Hahn, Stuttgart 1962. [DO] K.Deschner, Opus Diaboli, Reinbek 1987. [EC] P.W.Edbury, Crusade and Settlement, Cardiff Univ. Press 1985. [EJ] S.Eidelberg, The Jews and the Crusaders, Madison 1977. [LI] H.C.Lea, The Inquisition of the Middle Ages, New York 1961. [MM] M.Margolis, A.Marx, A History of the Jewish People. [MV] A.Manhattan, The Vatican's Holocaust, Springfield 1986.
See also V.Dedijer, The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Buffalo NY, 1992. [NC] J.T.Noonan, Contraception: A History of its Treatment by the Catholic Theologians and Canonists, Cambridge/Mass., 1992. [S2] Newscast of S2 Aktuell, Germany, 10/10/96, 12:00. [SH] D.Stannard, American Holocaust, Oxford University Press 1992. [SP] German news magazine Der Spiegel, no.49, 12/2/1996. [TA] A True Account of the Most Considerable Occurrences that have Hapned in the Warre Between the English and the Indians in New England, London 1676. [TG] F.Turner, Beyond Geography, New York 1980. [WW] H.Wollschlger: Die bewaffneten Wallfahrten gen Jerusalem, Zrich 1973.
(This is in german and what is worse, it is out of print. But it is the best I ever read about crusades and includes a full list of original medieval Christian chroniclers' writings). [WV] Estimates on the number of executed witches:

  • N.Cohn, Europe's Inner Demons: An Enquiry Inspired by the Great Witch Hunt, Frogmore 1976, 253.
  • R.H.Robbins, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, New York 1959, 180.
  • J.B.Russell, Witchcraft in the Middle Ages, Ithaca/NY 1972, 39.
  • H.Zwetsloot, Friedrich Spee und die Hexenprozesse, Trier 1954, 56
Reply

Ramadhan
06-17-2010, 04:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
More fairy stories for the gullible Tali-fan. The Taliban aren't 'defending their lands' any more than they are 'defending their country'. They are trying to impose their will on people, WHO ARE JUST AS MUSLIM AS THEY ARE, who just want to be left alone to look after their lands free of interference from anybody.
It is hypocritical of you to be extremely critical of the talibans and yet I have never read anything by you in this forums even questioning the right of the western troops to be invading and occupying Afghanistan.
Reply

Ramadhan
06-17-2010, 04:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
When will you learn that terrorist is a relative term and to most people on the planet, including a lot of Muslims, the Taliban are synonymous with the word 'terrorist'.
When will you learn to start educating yourself on the subject instead of parroting western media and propaganda?
Reply

Supreme
06-17-2010, 11:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
When will you learn to start educating yourself on the subject instead of parroting western media and propaganda?
Maybe the day someone provides me with a piece of reliable evidence that refutes the 'propaganda' that the Taliban are a bunch of suicide bombing, seven year old murdering, civilian slaughtering, drug funded, women beating psycopaths! They say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but in this case, I'm not too sure...
Reply

Masuma
06-17-2010, 11:36 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
Ahan? So where is your proof?

How many people died during the battles fought by Prophet Muhammad (and that also mainly in defense) and how many people died in two world wars, or the wars fought by America?

Do you have any shame???

+

Your totally derailing the topic with your absurdities. Why don't you simply say that whether you support America or not? Why playing these games?

Do you support America and Nato fighting in Afghanistan against the people of Afghanistan?!

Say yes, and the world would see what you actually are!
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-17-2010, 11:53 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Matamoros
Actually I see Islam not as a religion but an ideology developed for one goal, to dominate the world using many tactics including warfare and migration.
Thats an opinion doesnt mean its the Truth!

Dominate the world it shall but with truth and peace! Tactics to help people change from doing wrong to right , from darkness to Light!
Reply

Masuma
06-17-2010, 12:56 PM
@ Matamoros:

You there, yes you! You consider Muslims to be terrorists or killing in the name of God, right?

So here it is something which totally is going to make you sick!

Watch these videos. It is a lecture of Dr. Zakir on the topic

Is Terrorism a Muslim monopoly?

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...-monopoly.html

And you know what, after listening to this, never show your face, or I mean your post again!
Reply

Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-17-2010, 01:13 PM
^InshaAllaah tho hope he actually watches it and Learns something

@Matamoros, please watch it with sincerety and try not let these Lies get to you, if your going to make some claims its better to bring the whole package along with you , I.e.back it up with Proof!

Your Creator is Allaah and he says in the Noble Qur`aan: "O people! Surely there has come to you manifest proof from your Lord and We have sent to you clear light."[Al-Qur`aan,Surah 4.An Nisaa- The Women and verse 174]

But if your going to make some random claim of what you think or what you heard from some Anti-Muslims groups or whatever you call them feel free to be foolish and you will remain amongst those foolish ones

Your Lord and My Lord is One!

Anyway your Mercyful Lord says:

"Or have they taken for worship (other) aliha (gods) besides Him? Say: \"Bring your proof:\" This (the Quran) is the Reminder for those with me and the Reminder for those before me. But most of them know not the Truth, so they are averse."[Al-Qur`aan, Suraah 21.Al Anbiyaah-The Prophets, and verse 24]

Please be Sincere! Then All shall be good Indeed
Reply

Muezzin
06-17-2010, 06:04 PM
Keep it civil, chaps and chappitas. And on-topic.
Reply

Argamemnon
06-17-2010, 06:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
When will you learn that terrorist is a relative term and to most people on the planet, including a lot of Muslims, the Taliban are synonymous with the word 'terrorist'.
US Army manuals define terrorism as "the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature...through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear."

Western states conduct massive terrorist atrocities throughout the world in order to achieve their geo-political and geo-strategic goals. In other words; they are terrorist states. They typically don't adhere to international law themselves (check UN resolutions for example) while demanding less powerful nations to always do so. It's clear to me that you and your friends have nothing to add to this discussion.
Reply

Argamemnon
06-17-2010, 06:39 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Maybe the day someone provides me with a piece of reliable evidence that refutes the 'propaganda' that the Taliban are a bunch of suicide bombing, seven year old murdering, civilian slaughtering, drug funded, women beating psycopaths! They say absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but in this case, I'm not too sure...
That's an absurd statement, people are innocent until proven guilty. Where is your evidence for your claims that the Taliban are "seven year old murdering psychopaths" ? The U.S. and Israel are constantly massacring seven year old children and babies, which of course doesn't seem to bother you at all! Moreover, how on earth would this claim justify western state terrorism on a massive scale, destroying entire societies and inflicting unimaginable suffering that will last decades?

Also, you don't seem to realize that western states are the ones violating international law the most (compared to other nations). Iran, for example, is a much more responsible member of the International community than the US, UK and Israel combined. I can prove this by showing you all the violations and UN resolutions and human rights reports. I might have saved them on my computer, if you're interested. I also have excellent books (which include many references and sources) dealing with these subjects, why don't you buy some of those? If you are seriously interested in the truth that is!
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-17-2010, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
Keep it civil, chaps and chappitas. And on-topic.
lol i thought you said Chaps and Chappatis :-\ loool
Darn my imagination :-\
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Supreme
06-17-2010, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon
US Army manuals define terrorism as "the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature...through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear."

Western states conduct massive terrorist atrocities throughout the world in order to achieve their geo-political and geo-strategic goals. In other words; they are terrorist states. They typically don't adhere to international law themselves (check UN resolutions for example) while demanding less powerful nations to always do so. It's clear to me that you and your friends have nothing to add to this discussion.
How does this have any bearing on what I said? Why the hell are you talking about what a US army manual defines terrorism as? Terrorism is relative, regardless of what a US manual says...
That's an absurd statement, people are innocent until proven guilty. Where is your evidence for your claims that the Taliban are "seven year old murdering psychopaths" ? The U.S. and Israel are constantly massacring seven year old children and babies, which of course doesn't seem to bother you at all! Moreover, how on earth would this claim justify western state terrorism on a massive scale, destroying entire societies and inflicting unimaginable suffering that will last decades?
Here's my evidence:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...0_at_afgh.html

Of course seven year olds being massacred by anyone matters to me. When the hell did I say it didn't? Do some research before suggesting such inane, erroneous accusations in future!

Also, you don't seem to realize that western states are the ones violating international law the most (compared to other nations). Iran, for example, is a much more responsible member of the International community than the US, UK and Israel combined. I can prove this by showing you all the violations and UN resolutions and human rights reports. I might have saved them on my computer, if you're interested. I also have excellent books (which include many references and sources) dealing with these subjects, why don't you buy some of those? If you are seriously interested in the truth that is!
If you feel that way, why not do something about it instead of persistently complaining on an online chatboard!
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Ramadhan
06-18-2010, 05:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8

Nothing in this list is in line with the New Testament of Christianity and the Gospel of Jesus or follows the example of the early church!

Things done in the name of Christianity by these churches or religious christian hypocrites, DO NOT mean that they are justified by GOD(YAHWEH) or the scriptures of the New Testament!
There is NO scripture that anyone can find that will justify any of this!
You can keep saying that.

But the facts show that the biggest perpetrators and supporters of all those killings and heinous crimes have always been the church.

even until now.

The biggest supporters of US/western invasions to Afghanistan and Iraq which killed hundreds of thousands of civilians are the church, the conservatives and the christian right.

among the christians, there seem to be permanent disconnect between whats in their heart, their mouth and their actions.
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aadil77
06-20-2010, 12:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8

Nothing in this list is in line with the New Testament of Christianity and the Gospel of Jesus or follows the example of the early church!

Things done in the name of Christianity by these churches or religious christian hypocrites, DO NOT mean that they are justified by GOD(YAHWEH) or the scriptures of the New Testament!
There is NO scripture that anyone can find that will justify any of this!
-46 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Bring a mob against them and give them over to terror and plunder. 47 The mob will stone them and cut them down with their swords; they will kill their sons and daughters and burn down their houses.

-Ezekiel 9:5-7 "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.

-Hosea 13:16 (King James) Samaria will bear her guilt because she has rebelled against her God.
They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-21-2010, 02:09 PM
^To kill a child and women etc? What sort of punishments are these? God is the most Justified!

The Brother quoted the book of Ezekeil.
Ezekiel 9:5-7 "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.

According to Christianity, the Old Testament is the closest you can get to as in most reliable source , the earlier source, may i ask when the New testament was established? in the days of Jesus(pbuh) or after those days? Are you saying the Old testament has no part to play , you should throw it away, and not even follow one teaching from that book? if you are going to follow the New testament version? How can you say its a reliable source?

I apologise for the bombardment of Qs, just curious.
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جوري
06-21-2010, 02:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
You missed or ignored this:

And the Old Testament verses that you have quoted are GOD's punishment against the ancient Israelites and Jerusalem!
They are now history and DO NOT have any relevance for today, ever since Jesus and the New Covenant of the New Testament was established!
is he not the 'same god' or is the christian god a monolithic confused one that can't make up his own mind? more evident by the apostles he choose of whom 'the rock' denounced him three times, where he crucified and then abrogated more of his old forgotten commandments through his nemesis saul.. but then what can we expect when god chooses a woman to be both his lover and his mother.. it is the wildest sham I have ever encountered in any mythology frankly! Not even ganesh's tale is as strange as this!
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tango92
06-21-2010, 02:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
You missed or ignored this:

And the Old Testament verses that you have quoted are GOD's punishment against the ancient Israelites and Jerusalem!
They are now history and DO NOT have any relevance for today, ever since Jesus and the New Covenant of the New Testament was established!
i wonder why you continue to read a book which has no relevance for today. Did God forget to take that part out?
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aadil77
06-21-2010, 03:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
You missed or ignored this:

And the Old Testament verses that you have quoted are GOD's punishment against the ancient Israelites and Jerusalem!
They are now history and DO NOT have any relevance for today, ever since Jesus and the New Covenant of the New Testament was established!
Are god and jesus not the same thing? do they contradict each other?
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-21-2010, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Under the Old Covenant as revealed in the Old Testament, GOD(YAHWEH) destroyed the wicked and evil stiff necked rebellious ancient Israelites!
Those that had wilfully and freely forsaken GOD(YAHWEH) and had taken to worshipping idols and false god's and committing abomination after abomination!
Even in the Temple at Jerusalem, the house of GOD(YAHWEH)!

The New Testament, reveals the New Covenant as established by Jesus!

The Old Testament is now mostly just a historical document, and contains as yet unfulfilled prophecy concerning the 'End Times' and the 'Last Days'!

With the coming of Jesus Christ, the 'Law & Commandments' of the Old Covenant are actually fulfilled in Jesus Himself, because He was the sinless 'Son of GOD(YAHWEH)!

It was and remains the fact that no created human being has ever been sinless(except Adam & Eve before the fall!
The 'Law & Commandments' were given to show that and to point to the need for a personal 'Saviour'!

Galatians 3 (Amplified Bible)

1O YOU poor and silly and thoughtless and unreflecting and senseless Galatians! Who has fascinated or bewitched or cast a spell over you, unto whom--right before your very eyes--Jesus Christ (the Messiah) was openly and graphically set forth and portrayed as crucified?

2Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the [Holy] Spirit as the result of obeying the Law and doing its works, or was it by hearing [the message of the Gospel] and believing [it]? [Was it from observing a law of rituals or from a message of faith?]

3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?

3Are you so foolish and so senseless and so silly? Having begun [your new life spiritually] with the [Holy] Spirit, are you now reaching perfection [by dependence] on the flesh?
Okay thanks for your reply i really do appreciate it.
I have another Q, hope im not being too geeky :-\
In which bible is it mentioned that jesus claimed to be God or worship me? I know their 66 Gospels right?

Sorry if im going off topic, You may delete this or ignore it InshaAllaah if so

So yeah
Peace dudes and dudettes!
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جوري
06-21-2010, 08:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
You make wild claims!

Peter(the rock) may have denied Jesus at first but he ended up being persecuted unto death for his faith in Jesus!
Not wild at all, that is how others view your religion.. here is a 'God' who couldn't choose apostles effective enough to shoulder the responsibility after his 'death' as amusing as that is and if I am to overlook the death of god, these are the folks he entrusted with his alleged new covenant, a guy who denounced him three times, and another his arch nemesis.. how kind of God to throw the masses into confusion..
Saul/Paul did not abrogate anything, GOD changed the 'covenant'!
why did god change his mind and his covenant and decide to do it through a nemesis? he wasn't happy about his previous decisions?
And GOD(YAHWEH) did NOT choose Mary to be His lover and mother!
who us 'yahweh' do you have any idea what the word yaweh actually means? it means ya hwa literally oh he, both in Arabic and hebrew.. I am not sure why you keep putting it in there like it is the secret name of God.. why did god choose a 12 year old to be a wife and a mother to him? even if it weren't through sperms?
Jesus was 'divinely' 'incarnated in to Mary's womb!
and what happened to the other god while he was being 'reincarnated' if you are a strict monotheist? left the world behind for a period of infancy, and childhood?
There was NO male sperm fertilising a female egg!
see above!
Mary was the 1st. surrogate mother!
why does god need to be mothered?

GOD(YAHWEH) changed the 'covenant'(agreement) between Himself and His creation!
because he didn't like the way he was running the show before and he felt this would really elucidate things better? to be born, dam n the earth, pray to self, eat, go to the bathroom, die, and tell saul the things he couldn't when he was alive?

give me a break!
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-21-2010, 08:12 PM
Maryam (May the peace and blessings of God Allmighty be upon her) according to the Quraan is the truthful Mother :)

"Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth"

So yeah
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Al-Indunisiy
06-22-2010, 10:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Even muslims believe that Jesus is going to return!
But, why isn't mohammad going to return?
Because he doesn't need to. Judging by the rational background of your question that I assume, your question leads down to significance.

For Christians, significance is, I assume, put on the Advent of Christ, therefor the most prominent figure (i.e. Jesus) must be at play.

A parallel that some would say in the Muslim mind is the tradition of memorising, therefor one of the arguments for the Qur'an's prominence being it's relative ease to be commited to memory.
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 10:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Even muslims believe that Jesus is going to return!
But, why isn't mohammad going to return?
yes, muslims believe that Jesus (as) is going to return to earth.
And yes, Muhammad (SAW) is not going to return to earth.

What is your point?
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 10:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Jesus came in to the world in human form as a baby, therefore he was as a human being! He showed that He was GOD in the flesh/human form!
Did you actually step back and read again what you wrote?
Did you not realize your sentence and claim 1. does not make any sense, 2. illogical?
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tango92
06-22-2010, 10:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
It is relevant as history(creation and GOD's dealings with us humans) and contains as yet unfulfilled prophecy about the 'End Times' and the 'Last Days'!


hang on, you cant sit down and decide for yourself what God wanted you to follow and what he didnt. at least you agree its nothing more than a history book though, not a very reliable source either.

so the new testament, the grand spanking new law and wisdom as bought down by jesus still requires the old version to be complete? ie it turns out God did forget to put some info in.
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-22-2010, 11:08 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
That makes you an antichrist then!
No it makes me a MUSLIM!.
Muslim=Submitter to the will of God , Jesus submitted to the will of God, making him a M.u.s.l.i.m!

Maryam (as)the mother of Jesus (pbuh)worshipped Allaah.
Anyway this is what Jesus (pbuh) said according to the Quraan when asked by God Allmighty. . .

And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 11:46 AM
woh woh hold it there questioner, start another thread on comparitive religion

I don't want stuff about the antichrist derailing my thread
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-22-2010, 12:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
woh woh hold it there questioner, start another thread on comparitive religion

I don't want stuff about the antichrist derailing my thread
lol@ woh woh. . .
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 02:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
NO there are not 66 gospels!
There is a total of 66 books in the bible, which consists of the Old and NEW testaments!
Maybe you can elaborate for us that:
Almost all of the books in bible were written by unknown authors, the first few new testaments books were not written centuries after jesus (as) died, there are countless errors and contradictions in the books and amongst them, the biggest proponent of paganism-based trinity was paul who was nemesis of jesus (as) and did not even meet jesus (as) at all.
oh well. There are still lots I want to write here, but I do not want to derail this thread.

Jesus did not directly say to worship Him!
ah, so we agree that Jesus 9as) never told anyone to worship him.
This is a very good step forward for you to the truth.

As I have said elsewhere, to help understand the trinity!

A grandfather is also a father and a son! 3 different relationships in 1 person.
ah, I got it.
But a grandfather is also an uncle, a nephew, a grandson, a great grandfather, a great grandson, etc.
So who are the rest?
Let me guess: Gabriel, Paul, Virgin Mary, hmm.. I am running out of names soon.
No wonder there are SO MANY gods in greek/roman religions, Hindu, etc..

But what if the grandfather is not married? then he cannot bear son, and no grandson either?

The mind BOGGLES.


But, GOD with His supreme power, is able to separate in to 3 persons at the same time!
OH NO!!!

You are LIMITING Him to be 3 separate persons? Why can't he be 4, 5, 6 or a MILLION persons?
That means you are LIMITING the power of GOD.

Blasphemy!


GOD(YAHWEH) is not just 1 dimensional!

I am treasuring this claim of yours.
This essence of christianity is a gem.
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جوري
06-22-2010, 03:04 PM
.
The apostles fulfilled their calling and mission despite their human weakness!
They haven't concerning your religion is more akin to Paganism than anything monotheistic and completely at odds with the faith of Abraham!
GOD(YAHWEH) had already planned out the change of 'covenant' before the creation and fall in to sin of mankind!
A God that changes his mind is an ineffectual god, a lesser god!
You are talking gibberish!
I do see the matter of facts in your religion to be utter gibberish.. don't you want to justify why god would have a woman lover and a mother at the same time?
Yahweh is the personal name of God in the Hebrew Bible.

THE "TETRAGRAMMATON"
Why not for a change ask him, a question or two. Ask him where he got the word Jehovah from? He will surely reply - "From the Holy Bible." What does it say? Does it spell out the word J-e-h-o-v-a-h? "No," he will reply. "There is a 'tetragrammaton' in the Bible from which the word Jehovah is derived." What is a tetragrammaton? No one seems to have heard this highly mystical term. In the University of Illinois in the U.S.A. I asked a gathering of students and lecturers whether any one had heard this jaw-breaker! Not one of them knew its meaning! But every Jehovah's Witness seems to know, even the commonest of them. They have really specialised - ours is a world of specialisation. They are Professors of the one word - Jehovah.
What then is a "tetragrammaton!" The Jehovah's Witness replies, "Y H W Hi!"
"No!" "What I want to know from you is, what does the word tetragrammaton mean?" You will find him most reluctant in explaining. Either he does not really know, or he is feeling embarrassed in replying. "Tetra," in Greek means FOUR, and "grammaton," means LETTERS. It simply means "a four letter word."
Can you read into Y H W H the word Jehovah? I cannot. "No!", says the Jehovah's Witness, "we ought to add vowels to these four consonents to produce the sound. Originally, both Hebrew and Arabic were written without the vowel signs The native of each language was able to read if even without those vowels. Not so the outsider, for whose benefit the vowels were invented.
CHAPTER THREE - WHO IS JEHOVAH? (What is His Name - by Ahmed Deedat)COMMON ORIGIN
What is YHWH; and what is ELOHIM? Since the lews did not articulate the word YHWH for centuries, and since even the Chief Rabbis would not allow the ineffable to be heard, they have forfeited the right to claim dogmatically how the word is to be sounded. We have to seek the aid of the Arab to revive Hebrew, a language which had once died out. In every linguistic difficulty recourse has to be made to Arabic, a sister language, which has remained alive and viable. Racially and linguistically, the Arabs and the Jews have a common origin, going back to Father Abraham.1
Note the startling resemblance between the languages, very often the same sounding words carry identical meaning in both.
HEBREW ARABIC ENGLISH Elah Ilah god Ikhud Ahud one Yaum Yaum day Shaloam Salaam peace Yahuwa Ya Huwa oh he
YHWH or Yehova or Yahuwa all mean the very same thing. "Ya" is a vocative and an exclamatory particle in both Hebrew and Arabic, meaning Oh! And "Huwa" or "Hu" means He, again in both Hebrew and Arabic. Together they mean Oh He! So instead of YHWH ELOHIM, we now have Oh He! ELOHIM.




By the way, did your middle eastern god speak English?


Incarnation is NOT reincarnation!
The true GOD(YAHWEH) is not 1 dimensional! Is not limited by human imgaination!
Actually you limit him by humanizing him, not the other way around!

Jesus came in to the world in human form as a baby, therefore he was as a human being! He showed that He was GOD in the flesh/human form!
How did he show he was god? do you think gods use the bathroom, dam n the earth for not bearing fruit, pray for help and die?



format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Even muslims believe that Jesus is going to return!
But, why isn't mohammad going to return?
The Messenger fulfilled his message and died.. Jesus has risen because in Islam God doesn't forsake least of which the most righteous of his creation, but it is the lot of man to die, and as such Jesus will return to fulfill his prophecies and die as all men do .. when Jesus comes to earth he shall bear witness against YOU who have turned him into a god, he'll break the cross and will rule by Islamic jurisprudence!

all the best
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-22-2010, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
NO there are not 66 gospels!
There is a total of 66 books in the bible, which consists of the Old and NEW testaments!
Jesus did not directly say to worship Him!
That comes from spiritual understanding and the command to worship the Lord your GOD!
Jesus being the Lord GOD in the flesh!

As I have said elsewhere, to help understand the trinity!

A grandfather is also a father and a son! 3 different relationships in 1 person.

But, GOD with His supreme power, is able to separate in to 3 persons at the same time!

GOD(YAHWEH) is not just 1 dimensional!
Sorry i meant 66 books :-\

Ofcourse Jesus (pbuh) did not directly say to worship him, he wasnt god!!!!
He worshipped God though and thats quite clear from the "Bible", or lets say his "REAL" teachings, where he worshipped god!!!
God forbid indeed!

God seperate into 3 persons? God created us with Logic, he is 3 persons? Seriously what?!?!?! God is seperated into 3 persons? SubhaanAllaah
Anyways, I respect your views but this isnt your words right? Im not trying to be disrespectful Forgive me if so, but that doesnt make sense ,Theyre supposedly Gods words? You basically believe God is man, whereas in the book of Numbers it clearly states "God is not man, that he should sin etc" and many other books, where God cannot take shape of a human.This is your book!


Anyways, these are the Attributes of God in Islaam:

These verses below are from the Quraan, Chapter 112(The Sincerety)

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; [112.2]

[112:2]
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;


[112:3]
He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;


[112:4]
And there is none like unto Him.
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Masuma
06-22-2010, 03:14 PM
@ questioner8:

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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 03:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
No, not at all!

GOD(YAHWEH) is 'spirit'!
John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
He is invisible!
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Therefore, to be able to come to us His created human beings, He became flesh and blood, in the form of Jesus Christ born of a woman!
He didn't just appear as a full grown adult from nowhere!

Galatians 4:4
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,


Is this the latest version of how christians use "logic" to explain trinity?

Honestly, it is not as amusing the the father, grandfather, and son. or the shell, white, and yolk of egg.
I am beginning to think that christians have lost some creativity here.
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Ramadhan
06-22-2010, 03:23 PM
In an nutshell, to accept christianity means you must shut off your brain totally.
No difference than accepting other pagan religions.

Apology to Aadil for derailing the thread.
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Masuma
06-22-2010, 03:25 PM
DOES JESUS (PBUH) THE SON OF GOD?

JESUS IS NOT GOD. PROOF FROM THE BIBLE

IS JESUS THE ONLY SON OF GOD?

If you need more videos, please feel free to ask! :)
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جوري
06-22-2010, 03:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
In an nutshell, to accept christianity means you must shut off your brain totally.
No difference than accepting other pagan religions.

Apology to Aadil for derailing the thread.
yup.. I think they subscribe to a 'religion' because they don't want to be thought off as china, all greed and no moral compunction, so they fancy themselves superior believing in a mangod from west Asia but not because they really believe this nonsense ..

:w:
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جوري
06-22-2010, 05:26 PM
is that why Roger the II of Sicily crushed the globe given him by the Muslim scholar Al-Idrisi citing that the earth is flat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Idrisi

you can re-write the bible to suit your desires, but unfortunately the dark ages of the church speak of a different reality..

btw why are using OT passages, when your god came to denounce all that and establish new commandments.. which parts do you deem allegorical and which do you deem real? and why should the purchase of a dying mangod be anything but a figure of speech if not the biggest hoax?
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جوري
06-22-2010, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
If He can be "4, 5, 6 or a MILLION persons" why can't He(GOD) become a human being! Not a mangod, but a GOD who became man!
You can't define God by human terms..
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
The church and the so called christians that you speak of are NOT christians, they are 'religious hypocrites'!
sure whatever you say!
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tango92
06-22-2010, 07:38 PM
i wonder how many followers the church would loose if they didnt have a disco every sunday?
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
i wonder how many followers the church would loose if they didnt have a disco every sunday?
yh they'd lose them all and end up up turning into mosques!
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tango92
06-22-2010, 08:23 PM
^ yep theyd have to follow the religion Jesus pbuh truly taught, i dont think thats gonna happen
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جوري
06-22-2010, 09:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
i wonder how many followers the church would loose if they didnt have a disco every sunday?
lol so true..



why bar hop when all the church can be had in a 'structured environment'
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-22-2010, 09:49 PM
^Astagfirullaah, everytime i see these vids of "The holy spirit doing this or touching the spirit" vids, it really creeps me out, why they think thats a "Miracle" :(
SubhaanAllaah, May Allaah guide such people who think this is the way of God, Ameen.
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aadil77
06-22-2010, 09:53 PM
^thats the spirit of shaytaan touching them LOL crazy nutters
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
06-22-2010, 10:12 PM
SubhaanAllaah, crazy but scary!
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marwen
06-23-2010, 09:25 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
Yeah so true!
Just the same as the hamas nutters who brain wash little children in to becoming child shaheeds with their 'Farfur' the mouse on al asqua tv!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/227518...error_to_kids/
Sorry to interrupt, but what is the point here ?
Anyway, I don't want to make another off-topic discussion on how should be the Palestinian or Hamas's behaviour. You can open a new thread about that if you want to talk about hamas. But just a hint : these children live under bomb attacks and many Palestinian children are killed daily. And if they don't grow up and defend their selves and their families, no one will do it for them.

off topic anyway.
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جوري
06-23-2010, 12:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by questioner8
You notice in the video, the foul language of the mc! These are just more hypocrites!

Ephesians 5:4
Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

Ephesians 5

1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.
It is remarkable.. perhaps the majority of christians should be reacquainted with parts of their books (of course given everything, not sure which parts those should be).. considering the lack of reverence and foolishness, these man worshiping folks do in their churches..

all the best
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Masuma
06-23-2010, 01:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amat Allah
2. Muslims should always be concerned with what is beneficial and constructive, and should avoid what does not bring about benefit and what does not preserve the honor

[Click the arrow to go to original post.]

Brothers and sisters, I don't think that arguing with questioner8 would bring any good. (Some people would never learn and accept truth). But you know better than me. It's just an advice.

Allah knows best!
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